INTERVIEWER MISTAKES AND MOVING FORWARD

Crimson Barocca, LCSW-C

Objectives • Identify types of interviewer mistakes

• Learn how they can impact the child

• Understand how they can impact the interviewer

• Identify techniques to turn the interview around

• Find ways to reduce mistakes

Impact of Interviewer Mistakes

Impact on the Child • Exposes vulnerability and limitations

• Reduces credibility

• Child’s statement seems inconsistent

• Child feels like they did something wrong

• Limits child’s opportunity to tell what they know

• Loss of confidence

• Case unable to move forward

Impact on the Interviewer • Decreased confidence

• Negative response from team members

• Anxiety about competency and court

• Loss of credibility

• Diminished rapport with child

• Not recognizing mistakes reinforces poor practice

Types of Interviewer Mistakes

Developmentally Inappropriate • 3-year-old

FI: Okay. . . when Darnell pulls on your ‘pee pee,’ how is your body positioned?

C: My body’s position is all better.

Developmentally Inappropriate • 10-year-old with developmental delay

FI: How old do you think that officer was?

C: (Pause) 90.

FI: What makes you say he was 90?

C: Because he big. He was fat.

FI: Know anyone else who is 90?

C: No.

Solutions for Age/Level of Development

• Know and prepare for the age and developmental level of the child

• When an answer creates conflicting information don’t compound the error by asking more direct questions to “fix” the inconsistency

• Don’t focus on the bad information you just got

• Go back to more reliable narrative

• Focus on narrative details and open ended follow-up

• Watch for child’s cues that the question was too difficult

• Don’t force the child to make an educated guess

Solutions for Timeframe • Be cautious with “before” questions, start at the beginning and then follow the sequence of events

• What happened, first, next, and then what happened…

• Don’t anchor events around holidays • Unless child provides that information in narrative

• What and where and contextual details give timeframe

Research Guidance on Time and Number

• Friedman, W.J. & Lyon, T.D. (2005). The Development of Temporal Reconstructive Abilities. Child Development, 76, 1202-1216.

• Wandry, L., Lyon, T.D., Quas, J.A., & Friedman, W.F. (2012). Maltreated Children’s Ability to Estimate Temporal Location and Numerosity of Placement Changes and Court Visits. Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 18, 79-104.

• McWilliams, K., Lyon, T.D., & Quas, J.A. (2016) Maltreated Children’s Ability to Make Temporal Judgments using a Recurring Landmark Event. Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1-11.

Reinforcing Distractions Cont’d Transcript example of 3-year-old TJ perseverating on a topic. TJ began breaking crayons 40 minutes into interview.

C: That one breaks.

FI: Okay, if it’s broken it’s okay, but we’re not going to break any more, okay?

C: And this one not break.

FI: That one is not, that one is not broke, yes.

C: And this one not broke?

FI: And that one is not broke. Now, TJ, TJ?

C: Huh?

FI: When you told me that Jeremiah rubbed your bum bum---

C: These are broke?

FI: Those are broke…

C: And this is broke?

FI: And that is broke, and that’s not broke. Tell---

C: And that broke?

FI: That’s not---that’s broke, that’s broke.

C: Is this broke?

FI: You know what? So, TJ, you can use---use the ones that are broken. You use those that are broken, okay, and what we’ll do is just put these---we’ll close these up. So…

Solutions for Reinforcing Distractions

•Change focus and redirect

•Less reaction from the interviewer about the distraction

•Frame the distraction and end it

•Put distractor away

Interviewer Introduces Information

• Interviewer asks about something the child has not mentioned

• What did his “private part” look like?

Solutions • Interviewer says “private part” before child

• Keep going, don’t repeat it

•Broaden the question funnel

Example: 4 year-old Shania

Interviewer provides information that the child does not

C: Mr. O. did it.

FI: Mr. O. did it?

C: Yes, he even touched the inside of my butt

FI: He even touched the inside of your butt?

C: Yes and the back of my butt.

FI: And tell me everything about that, tell me everything that happened from start to finish

Shania Cont’d C: Um, he said, um, um, um, he’s gonna put paper on the inside of my butt and he told me he was gonna touch the back of my butt and the front of my butt (motions with hands in front of her vagina)

(Details gathered about where it happened, then child asked to go to the bathroom. Interview resumes following the brief bathroom break.)

FI: Shania you can have a seat in that big chair again (closes door). I just want to ask you a couple more questions about what we were just talking about okay?

C: OK.

FI: OK, you said, um, that Mr. O. put his finger in the backside of your bottom?

C: Yes

Solutions

• Interviewer provides information that the child does not • Avoid putting the child’s fragmented words altogether and over-repeating it throughout the interview

• Only reflect back the child’s words when you are certain of what they said (helpful to write down child’s words so you remember later in interview)

• Be careful after an unexpected break in the interview process, prepare

next questions before returning

Misquoting the Child

•Mishearing what the child stated

•Child says “peanuts” and the interviewer repeats it as “penis”

•Guessing what the child stated

•Forgetting what the child stated

Solutions for Misquoting the Child

• If child corrects, thank them and use correct words

• If misquote continues, be sure to use the child’s words in documentation

•Can use anatomical drawing to clarify if needed

• If permitted, take brief notes during interview of child’s exact words

• Be cautious about repeating the child’s words (when child is hard to understand)

Interviewer Talks Too Much

• Quick pace

• Interrupts

• No time for child to process

• Filling silences

• Overcompensates for reluctant/less talkative child

Transcript I: well, you know when people are committed as in EP’d. It doesn’t mean they’re crazy. It’s called life. We all have to deal with life. Sometimes things are given to us that we can’t handle. And it puts us in overload. It does not make anyone crazy. OK? would you remember that ? So, no, I don’t think you’re mom is crazy and I hope no one’s every told you that. Because, that’s not true. Alright? So, was dad? How does dad feel about it?

I: The law, you know, because of your age…once in the state of Maryland, once you’re 16, it doesn’t matter. People might thing it’s funny because people like Donald Trump, you know he’s older but he’s got a younger wife. People might look at that strangely. But, you know in the state of Maryland, once you turn 16, that’s the legal age of consent. Um, does dad know anything?

C: I guess.

I: Um, so, I know I asked you about school. There’s actually nothing you like about school?

C: No

I: Really? So, what kind of grades you get at school?

C: I get good enough grades.

I: How are your teachers? How many teachers you have?

C: About 7 teachers.

I: See, when I was coming up…don’t call me old. When I was coming up, we didn’t have that [homework] choice. And I grew up on a farm, slopping hogs and all that kind of stuff. So, what is a typical day for you after school?

Solutions for Talking Too Much • Focus on the child’s words and opportunities to increase the child’s narrative

• Fight the urge to fill long silences

• Don’t let a child’s reluctance trick you (interviewer) into talking more

• Even if you are getting short responses from the child: • Use open ended prompts, “Tell me more about X…”

• Frame the question using the child’s words, “You told me X, tell me...”

Research Guidance on Interviewer and Child Interactions, Question Types

• Orbach, Y., Pipe, M., & Katz, C. (2011) Investigating Substantive Issues (M. Lamb, D. LaRooy, & L. Malloy, Eds.). In Children's testimony: A handbook of psychological research and forensic practice (2nd ed.). Chichester, West Sussex, U.K.: Wiley-Blackwell.

• Wolfman, M., Brown, D., Jose, P. (2016). Talking Past Each Other: Interviewer and Child Verbal Exchanges in Forensic Interviews. Law and Human Behavior, 40, 107-117.

Cycle of Questioning

Misreading Child’s Cues • Succumbing to pressures, team or your own

• Thinking about the next question and not paying attention to the child’s emotions

• Pushing the child too far or not pushing far enough

• Missing the “white knuckles”

Solutions for Misreading Cues

• Preparation •Knowing the child’s history

•Anticipating triggers for the child

•Have a plan for how to respond

• Pay attention and follow the child •Don’t lose what is right in front of you to automatic next questions

• You are the only one in the room with the child!

Solutions Cont’d

• Check-in with the child, “How do you feel about talking with me today?”

• Have tools to help engage and reduce stress • Writing/drawing materials

• Stress ball (for older children)

• Take a break to a neutral topic, or from the interview

• Consider more than one interview

Interviewer Lacks Flexibility

• Interviewer doesn’t allow for a natural flow •Rigid guidelines

•Not following the child, following a “script”

• Limited training

• Imposed structure by outside agencies or mandates

• Urgency to obtain information from the child

Interviewer Lacks Flexibility FI and 3-year-old child are going through instructions. “Daddy’s friend” is the alleged suspect.

FI: …So if I say to you Bernard, what is my middle name, what would you say? C: I just--I just talked to Mommy. I just talked to my Mommy about Daddy’s friend. FI: You just talked to your Mommy about Daddy’s friend? C: Yeah. FI: Okay. So, like I said earlier, I don’t want you to guess and if you don’t know the answer to something it’s okay. So, let me move on and ask you another question. If I say something to you and you don’t know what I mean or understand, just let me know and I’ll ask it a different way. Okay? So, if I say to you you are a boy or a girl, what would you say? C: A boy.

FI: A boy. And also sometimes I make mistakes and say some things wrong and if I do, it’s okay for you to correct me and tell me that I was wrong. So, if I say Bernard, you’re 30 years old, what would you say? C: Daddy’s friend is—Daddy’s friend’s hair is black dark. FI: Daddy’s friend’s hair is black dark? C: Yeah. FI: Okay. So, I know you’re going to want to talk to me about Daddy’s friend so we’ll get to that in just a little bit. First, I want you to tell me some things that you like to do. FI continues with protocol… finishes instructions and narrative practice. FI: Okay. So, let me ask you this question. Tell me what is the reason that you came to talk to me tonight? C: I just talk to you in the morning and I just go but I can talk to you in the morning.

Solutions to Interviewer Inflexibility • Weigh the child’s readiness to disclose and the benefits of narrative practice

• Follow the child’s lead

• Mirror the child’s pace

• Wait, don’t interrupt child’s narrative

• Have patience for the child’s process and individuality

One and Done • Putting too much pressure on the child to say everything in one interview

• CAC founding principle

• Suggestibility research

• Memory limitations

Solutions for One and Done • Follow-up interview or Extended Forensic Interview (EFI)

• Allows the child time to process and helps with retrieval

• Allows the interviewer to review and plan

• Educate team members • Current research

• Investigative benefits

• Emotional and psychological benefit for child

Research • La Rooy, D., Pipe, M. and Murray, J.E. 2005. Reminiscence and hypermnesia in children’s eyewitness memory. Journal of Experimental Child Psychology. 90(3): pp.235-254.

• La Rooy, D., Katz, C., Malloy, L. C., & Lamb, M. E. (2010). Do we need to rethink guidance on repeated interviews? Psychology, Public Policy and Law, 16, 373-392.

• Hershkowitz, I. and Terner, A. (2007), The Effects of repeated interviewing on children's forensic statements of sexual abuse. Appl. Cognitive Psychology, 21: 1131–1143.

Interviewer Bias • Types of questions asked

• Nonverbal cues • Nodding

• Ignoring certain responses

• Following a hypothesis and not being “present” for the child

Solutions for Interviewer Bias • Stay neutral

• Don’t allow case presentation to influence you

• Be self-aware

• Notice a pattern • Seek supervision

When Are Mistakes More Likely to Occur?

• Fatigue

• Autopilot

• Inadequate Peer Review and Supervision

• Insufficient Knowledge of Current Research

• New Interviewer

• Multiple Interviews

• Pressure from Team Members

• Internal Pressure

• Rushed

• Interviewer Bias

The Takeaway • Interviewing children effectively is a difficult skillset

• The field is progressing and there is always new research

• It’s not for everyone

• If you don’t think you’re making mistakes, that’s a mistake

• Peer Review with experienced interviewers

One Mistake You Can’t Move Forward From, No Matter How Hard You Try!

• http://southpark.cc.com/clips/155184/molestation-demonstration

Questions?

Crimson Barocca, LCSW-C

443-923-7007 cbarocca@bcaci.org