INTERVIEWER: Hi, I’m Heather White for ParentingHQ.com. · INTERVIEWER: Okay. Now what are some...

Soothing Your Colicky Baby

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INTERVIEWER: Hi, I’m Heather White for ParentingHQ.com.

Parenting is one of the most rewarding jobs there is but it definitely comes with its share of stressors. From bottles and binkies to diapers and daycare, sometimes it’s difficult to know where to start and who to turn to if there’s a question or a problem. And that’s what ParentingHQ.com is all about. Helping parents find solutions to any situation that may arise while trying to raise their baby.

Today’s topic is colic. Whether you’re a parent of a newborn, a caregiver, or even a grandparent, the following hour will give you much-needed advice and insight on how to deal with crying and colicky babies. Colic is something I’m sure you’ve heard of, have experienced, or maybe you’re experiencing it right now.

My guest today is Michelle Chrastil, Child and Family Therapist and certified postpartum doula, and founder of Honest Family Services, LLC in Denver, Colorado. Michelle is very well versed in newborn babies with colic. Her focus is helping families, primarily mothers, deal with any issues that arise after the birth of their child. And her husband, Eric, also shares her passion for the postpartum experience and he has founded a company called Daddy Doula. He centers his attention on helping fathers deal with specific infant-related concerns, recognizing postpartum depression, and general support for new fathers related to birth or postpartum. For more information about Daddy Doula, you may visit www.wherefathersgrow.com.

Michelle, I’d like to thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule and to speak with me today. And also to shed some light for new parents on the subject of colic.

RESPONDENT: I’m glad to be here.

INTERVIEWER: First, can you elaborate a little bit on exactly what being a postpartum doula is?

RESPONDENT: Sure! Being a postpartum doula is a newer field. There’s postpartum doulas and there are labor doulas. A postpartum doula is considered an in-home parent educator. So I come into the home and I support families during the postpartum experience. The services I provide ranging from all different types of education including helping calm colicky infants, fixing common sleep



problems, teaching tips on breastfeeding, and offering overnight support.

INTERVIEWER: That is wonderful. I mean, thankfully we’ve got someone like you now, right?

RESPONDENT: Yes! Well, we used to rely a lot more on extended families but since families have been separated from each other, you know, over the years and living farther and farther apart, there’s a larger need for postpartum doulas to come in to support the mom and the entire family.

INTERVIEWER: Absolutely. How did you get started in this field?

RESPONDENT: Well, I’ve been working with families for over ten years now working in various roles, beginning my career working as a preschool teacher and a nanny, and even a night nanny which typically happens with families who have multiples. I did all that work kinda while I was completing my first degree in Human Development and Family Studies.

INTERVIEWER: Mm hmm.

RESPONDENT: And then I began my doula work from that experience while I was completing my Master’s degree in Counseling. So I’ve been doing it for a little bit over six years, the postpartum doula work. And I’ve just kinda started to incorporate my counseling services, you know, as well into it.

INTERVIEWER: Right. That’s wonderful. Okay. Let’s tackle the topic of colic. Everyone has heard the term but few people really know its true definition. You know, people say the baby is crying constantly, not stopping and, most importantly, they just don’t know how to deal with it. So can you explain to our listeners what colic is?

RESPONDENT: Sure! Well, colic is a broad term. It is a term that defines the symptoms rather than a particular cause. Which just means the doctors and experts really don’t know a specific reason for colic. Colics can be described as babies having episodes of uncontrollable extended crying that can last over three hours a day and last three days a week. So really, in order to determine whether or not your child has colic there tends to be a Rule of Three. And the Rule of Three is that the crying began within the first three weeks of life, it lasts up to more than three hours of crying a day, and it occurs more than three or more days a week for



about three months. And that’s kinda how we diagnose when an infant has colic.

INTERVIEWER: Okay. Yeah. So it’s basically in the newborn stage of life…

RESPONDENT: Mm hmm.

INTERVIEWER: …and it lasts up to three months.

RESPONDENT: That’s correct.

INTERVIEWER: Okay.

RESPONDENT: Sometimes in more severe cases it can last ‘til about six months. But it always tends to disappear, over age, at six months the latest.

INTERVIEWER: Okay. Now what are some useful tips that parents can do to soothe a colicky, crying baby?

RESPONDENT: Well, I think that there are a lot of useful steps that you can do to soothe a baby. The first step that I tend to suggest is first you have to assess whether or not your infant has colic. Using the Rule of Three is a really good way to do that. The one thing you want to consider is make sure your child is considered healthy, well fed, no signs of illness although they’re still continuing to have these episodes of crying or fussiness that last, as we mentioned before…


RESPONDENT: ….you know, for more than three hours a day. You know, the second step I suggest is do a, you know, “Why is my baby crying?” checklist. It’s really important to do kind of a full assessment of your child to try to pinpoint which needs they have that’s not being met which is causing all this crying and fussiness. A checklist may include, you know, checking is their diaper checked, is my child hungry, when is the last time they ate, is my child tired, overstimulated, did we do much today?

Also, a head-to-toe body check where you look over the entire body of your baby and make sure that there’s no possible irritation, abnormalities. Even looking under their little rolls under their chin and under their arms, if you have those cute chubby babies. ‘Cause sometimes they can get things caught in there which causes them pain.



And then the last thing on the checklist is just for potential illness. Do they have a fever? Are they vomiting? Are they losing weight? And are they, have possibly reflux which is, you know, you can tell if they cry while they swallow and while they’re drinking you can tell that they’re in pain.

INTERVIEWER: Right. Now, speaking of that, that’s something I’ve heard from a lot of laypeople. They’ve been saying that it could be gas or, you know, there’s no such term as colic. And that it could be just the gas or the reflux. Can you explain a little bit more about the reflux in babies? Maybe what parents can look for in their child? You know, they talk about maybe sitting the baby up in a certain position. Or is it spitting up a lot.

RESPONDENT: Sure! That’s a really great question. It’s very common in infants these days. They don’t necessarily know what is causing it but we do know that it’s much more common in its acid reflux symptoms. And some of the ways you can tell if your baby may be experiencing some acid reflux is when you do feed them, if you hold them in a typical position holding a bottle and while they’re drinking the milk, you know, they begin to cry and it seems like that they’re having pain when they swallow. That’s one way you can kind of tell something’s going on.

Another thing is if you, you know, after you’re done feeding and you lay them down to go to bed and when they’re sleeping you hear them making these grunting noises and wiggling a lot on their back, where it seems like their stomachs are kind of uncomfortable. That’s another sign they may be experiencing some reflux. There are some really simple tools that you can use to help soothe reflux.


RESPONDENT: One of them is you can always talk to your pediatrician. There are some mild medications that the doctors are prescribing for reflux that can be really effective. So that is one way to do it.

Another thing before you actually take ‘em to the doctor is every time after you feed your baby, make sure you hold your baby upright position for about ten to fifteen minutes after each feeding. That will really help for the milk to completely go down. If you lay them back on their back right away it tends to cause that reflux because it’s just not quite settled in there yet. So holding ‘em upright can be a really helpful tool.



INTERVIEWER: Okay, great. Now, so colic should not be confused with acid reflux in babies. Is that correct?

RESPONDENT: Well, colic, as I mentioned before, no one really knows the term. Colic can be caused by reflux.

INTERVIEWER: Okay.

RESPONDENT: And it also can be caused by intestinal issues, stomach aches, maybe a milk allergy. It can also be caused by something else that may be causing a lot of difficulties and pain for the infant. We just don’t know. There’s just not one reason.

INTERVIEWER: Okay.

RESPONDENT: Like I mentioned, colic is more just describing that a baby is crying, you know, that three hours of the day.

INTERVIEWER: Right.

RESPONDENT: Even though there’s not one reason that they may be doing it. So reflux can be actually part of the colicky diagnosis.

INTERVIEWER: Now you mentioned when you feed the baby, a certain way to hold it. Which brings up another question of mine, back to colic.

RESPONDENT: Sure.

INTERVIEWER: Is there a certain way that a parent can hold the baby to ease its crying and soothe the baby? Is there a certain hold, like the football hold? Do you know if it…

RESPONDENT: Sure!

INTERVIEWER: …I’m not sure.

RESPONDENT: Well, I think that the football hold is a great one. When you’re dealing with reflux, or even just dealing with a colicky baby, a lot of it is trial and error. It is really trying to figure out, “Okay, what makes my baby most comfortable?” If your baby’s having difficulty, crying while eating – and it may be reflux or just general discomfort – you can hold them in a completely upright position up on your chest…




RESPONDENT: …while holding the bottle which tends to ease, you know, if they’re having the reflux since they’re in a completely upright position.

Otherwise, in terms of the breastfeeding, most positions should be just as comfortable to the infant in related to the reflux or in related to the crying. You just kinda try different positions and see which one works best with your baby.

But definitely with bottle feeding, you really want to make sure they’re getting the least amount of air in their system. And you can do that by holding ‘em in a semi-upright position while you feed the bottle. You want to make sure that the nipple of the bottle is completely full of milk when you’re tipping the bottle, which minimizes the amount of air. And you also want to use a bottle that really works to minimize air, such as a Dr. Brown’s bottle, which is one of the bottles that I recommend with my clients.

INTERVIEWER: Yes, I’ve heard of those. They’re wonderful.

RESPONDENT: Yes.

INTERVIEWER: In your experience, what are some mistakes that parents make when they’re trying to deal with fussy babies?

RESPONDENT: Well, I think one of the mistakes is, you know, obviously in terms of safety, you never want to shake a baby. Shaken baby syndrome is something that can happen very easily. And when a parent or a caregiver is starting to feel the anxiety of their child and the anxiety of not being able to soothe their child, we have a physical reaction to shake or to get upset. So, to really be careful about shaking your baby and making sure you take the time to lay them down in their crib and walk away when you need a break.

INTERVIEWER: Exactly. That’s so important. Even yelling, that’s something too that, you know, you feel that physical desire to just get angry. You do, you need to just place them and walk away and just gather yourself. Especially for single parents. I mean, it’s difficult when you don’t have someone to kind of bounce the responsibility back and forth. So I think that’s wonderful advice.

RESPONDENT: Yes. And one other thing that I would also mention that you don’t want to do is, a lot of the times when mothers who may be breastfeeding – in terms of when their baby starts to show signs of colic – they worry or they may get misinformation that maybe the baby is allergic to their milk.




RESPONDENT: Which is extremely rare. Yes, some babies do have a sensitivity to milk products and sometimes have a sensitivity to breast milk. But it’s extremely rare. So I would suggest to not completely wean your child off of breastfeeding right away. To really talk to your pediatrician and a lactation consultant and begin with some dietary adjustments before you completely stop the breastfeeding.

INTERVIEWER: Absolutely. I couldn’t agree with you more. I breastfed both of my children. My son was very colicky in the beginning and what I had to do was kind of what you just said, is reassess “What am I eating and what could possibly be causing his pain, his crying?” And I found out that it was tomato products. And I had to stop eating all kinds of spaghetti sauce and pizza. But I’ll tell you it was wonderful because he could still, and I could still enjoy breastfeeding him. And he could still get all the benefits from that. And then the crying diminished and finally went away. So I think that’s a wonderful thing is, don’t give up on breastfeeding. Just try to figure out what works and what doesn’t work.

Are there any foods that you can maybe throw out there now to new moms who are breastfeeding that they want to avoid?

RESPONDENT: Sure! A breastfeeding mom really wants to watch out for eating too much of gas-causing foods. If you’re going to try an elimination diet, you’re gonna want to start looking out for not eating too much garlic…


RESPONDENT: …avoiding caffeine, broccoli, beans, and then of course, cow’s milk and other dairy products. Those are all foods that infants can be sensitive. As well as, like you mentioned, tomato sauce. My daughter also had a real sensitivity to tomato sauce.


RESPONDENT: I needed to cut out of my diet, I had to cut out drinking glasses of milk. It was just too much milk for her to digest. As well as spaghetti sauce until that first few months of her life was over.

INTERVIEWER: Right. Right. Yes, anything acidic. Or maybe what a good rule of thumb might be, what makes you uncomfortable or gaseous might make your baby the same way, right?



RESPONDENT: That’s correct!

INTERVIEWER: Let’s do the opposite here, with moms that aren’t breastfeeding but giving formula.

RESPONDENT: Mm hmm.

INTERVIEWER: Could certain formulas maybe contribute to the colic or the crying? Is that possible?

RESPONDENT: You know, that is possible. You know, parents do the best they can trying to find the right formula for their infants. My advice is, if you’re feeding your baby the formula and you start noticing these colicky symptoms, first talk to your pediatrician before you switch formulas. It’s really difficult for an infant to adjust to a new formula so you don’t want to make that decision lightly. You want to really make just one switch if possible. So what I recommend is, you know, once you talk to your pediatrician you can either try two things. The first thing is if your doctor suspects that your infant may be a little sensitive to the dairy product, then you can try a soy formula that your pediatrician suggests.


RESPONDENT: And once you make that change, try it for one week and also keep a diary of what the behaviors of your infant are doing throughout that week. So you can kinda keep track whether the formula is helping or not. Especially before you make another formula change.

My second suggestion for formula is if you are just not worried about milk allergies, I suggest Similac Alimentum formula which is really sensitive formula that really helps with colic in terms of if your infant’s having a hard time digest. It’s still a milk-based product…


RESPONDENT: …but it’s a really good product that just works really well for those colicky infants.

INTERVIEWER: Now, you mentioned over-the-counter medications before…

RESPONDENT: Mm hmm.

INTERVIEWER: …but I think you were talking about acid reflux. Are there any over-the-counter medications that can help colic?



RESPONDENT: Well, there are. Homeopathic remedies can be an excellent choice for treating infant colic symptoms. Homeopathy is safe and completely allergen-free and side effect-free, which is really important for infants. There’s only one formula that I tend to recommend and that’s Colic Calm Gripe Water. It’s available online and a few different health stores and health practioners’ office. And what Colic Calm Gripe Water does is it really just helps easing stomach pain and discomfort in terms of gas or cramping. And it’s in a drop format so…

INTERVIEWER: Okay.

RESPONDENT: …you can go ahead and purchase that over the counter. Which is a good option.

There’s also something a little bit more milder which is Mylicon drops, Mylicon gas drops. Which, in my experience, aren’t quite as effective as Gripe Water but they’re both good tools to try as you’re trying to do the process of elimination of what’s going on for your infant.

INTERVIEWER: Exactly. And how about bathing your child in the lavender-scented water? You know how sometimes you see the commercials and, you know, it says that they’ll soothe your baby. Are there any truths to that? Does that really work?

RESPONDENT: Well, a big thing is sometimes colic can just be caused by stress in an infant. They may be overtired. There may be a lot of fighting going on within their parents and infants can really feel that tension and that stress in the home. So doing something like a bath with lavender. Another suggestion is infant massage. Also, you know, really calming your baby in a darker room with less stimulation. Those are all tools that can be helpful that just reduce the amount of stress your baby can be experiencing which thus can, you know, reduce the amount of crying that they may be doing. So, yes, I do think there’s some truth into those techniques.

INTERVIEWER: Now the infant massage. Is that something the parents should be doing or is that something that you go to your pediatrician for?

RESPONDENT: Now infant massage ,parents can do it pretty easily. There’s a nice selection of videos that I like to suggest for clients if you just want to make sure you’re doin’ the right thing.




RESPONDENT: And what I would do is, you know, just look into some different techniques of infant massage. It doesn’t need to be elaborate. Really, the most important part is you’re calming your infant. So you’re doing it in a calm room. You maybe even have a candle lit or some nice music playing. I always encourage parents to tell their baby what they’re doing. So, “I’m gonna give you a massage now.”


RESPONDENT: “Some nice, soothing lavender lotion.” And kinda just rub them and calm them. Maybe rub their belly a little bit. It really can make a difference in terms of your baby’s stress level.

INTERVIEWER: Absolutely. I think it’s very important that you touched on what’s going on inside the environment of the home. Whether there’s fighting or just stress. When you’re a new parent you know, of course, there’s going to be stress as soon as you bring home the baby and you don’t know what to do. Especially first-time parents. So I think these are great tips and tools.

One thing that I did with my son when he was, you know, crying so much, I would put him in the stroller. And the way my house is set up I had a little circle path that I could just walk him around. Or even if I didn’t have the stroller I could just carry him and kind of just pat his little behind when I was walking around the circle. So I think trying to find something that takes the stress away from even the moms and dads, not just the stress away from the babies. Because I think a stress-free home just really helps the whole situation. (laughs)

RESPONDENT: It really does. And I just have to point out that infants are really sensitive to their parents’ stress or their caregiver’s stress. So one really important thing, although it’s hard, is when you’re trying to calm your baby I really like parents to pay attention to what’s going on. Really try to keep yourself at an even heart rate. Take some deep breathing. Really try to relax the tension in your shoulders while you’re trying to calm your baby because it will help them calm down. Or if you’re holding them and you’re stressed and they’re stressed, it’s only going to get worse.

INTERVIEWER: Absolutely.

RESPONDENT: Yeah. So that’s another suggestion I like to put out there.



INTERVIEWER: That’s wonderful. Now what happens if the parents have tried everything and they are still unable to soothe their baby? What should they do?

RESPONDENT: Well, you know, that’s a really hard place to be as a parent. And then what I suggest is to, you know, give yourself a little bit of a break. Colicky infants, you know, they often seem unresponsive to attempts by their caregivers. You know, in terms of typical soothing. And that’s okay. To just be able to do your checklist, go through everything that you could have done to try to calm your baby. And if your baby’s still not calming down and you’ve already talked to the pediatrician, give yourself a break. And just be encouraged to know that it really never lasts more than three to six months. So just wait it out. Lay your baby down in their crib or somewhere safe. Go take a little break. Take a walk around the house.

INTERVIEWER: Right.

RESPONDENT: To really just allow yourself those breaks and to know, “I tried everything I can and it’s okay if my baby has to cry for a few minutes without me.” And you really need to take care of yourself.

INTERVIEWER: Exactly. Maybe hang in there and know that it’s not your fault. Know that it will get better over time and that they’re not the only parents that go through these kind of things. Are there any Web sites that you know of that maybe parents can get some suggestions from other moms and dads or people that are going through the same thing?

RESPONDENT: Yes! Well, if you even look up colic in terms of, you know, Google and you look online, there’s lots of different articles and resources about the causes and treatments and different suggestions. In terms of connecting with other parents, I think that that’s a really great thing to do. Just to be able to talk to other parents and know, you know, that you’re not the only one. And I think if you go and click on any of those Web sites and I think that there’s, you know, www.colic.com...

INTERVIEWER: Mmm.

RESPONDENT: …I know that it talks a lot, different articles, about colic and what parents can do. And just reaching out for resources and, you know, lookin’ online. I think that that’s a great resource for families.



INTERVIEWER: Absolutely. Now as a doula, Michelle, do you actually go to people’s homes and try to help them with these situations or do they come to you?

RESPONDENT: Yes! Well, it can do both. Postpartum doulas mainly go into the home. That’s a great resource for families struggling with colic. You know, and to find a local doula, you know, you can do that by searching online as well.

INTERVIEWER: Okay.

RESPONDENT: And what postpartum doulas do, typically families call me when they’re… you know, tried everything else and they can’t figure out what to do. They tend to either be sleep deprived or just exhausted. And a postpartum doula goes into your home, I go into the home. I either provide relief for the parents where they can go get outta the house, take a break and leave their baby with someone that they trust. Or I stay with the family and I try to help them assess what’s going on. And I physically teach them different soothing techniques. So that they just have some support and somebody who knows and has had experience with colic babies. Help them. So much of it is parents feel so isolated, and mothers feel so isolated. The postpartum doulas are so effective in coming into your home and really helping you with educating your child in your own environment.

INTERVIEWER: That’s wonderful. I think you really hit on it when you were saying that they’re just so sleep deprived. Sometimes new parents, they almost kind of hit a wall and say, “I just don’t know what else to do. I can’t go any further.” And “I’m trying everything and nothing is working.” And you almost feel – I think I did as a new mom several years ago – you just feel like, “I don’t know what I’m doing.” When in fact, you know, really when you step back and you just take a breath, we’re a lot stronger than we give ourselves credit for. But I think what you do is just an amazing thing. I mean, to have somebody with that kind of knowledge and that kind of clarity come in and say, “It’s okay. We’re gonna get through this and I can teach you ways to do it.” I think it’s absolutely wonderful. And I’m so glad that there is something like this, and a position like this, where people can get these resources and have a kind of a personal connection with someone. And not just, oh, call someone up on the phone or just… you know, you actually get to meet you and to have you come into the home. I think it’s an absolutely wonderful thing.



RESPONDENT: Oh, great. Yes! And one of families’ favorite things about postpartum doulas is we do support families in overnight support. So when families are so sleep deprived with a colic baby, or even just an infant…


RESPONDENT: …you know, being able to have a doula come in which provides one night of eight hours’ stretch of sleep or five hours’ stretch of sleep can make such a big difference in the next day. And parents being able and well rested enough to really calm their crying baby again.

INTERVIEWER: Now explain to me how that happens. Do you have a staff of people that you could just go into the home? I’m not sure. Can you just explain that a little bit to me?

RESPONDENT: Sure! Well, most postpartum doulas do provide overnight support. And most postpartum doulas are independent contractors, where they personally come into the home. So if a family wants to contact me personally, it would be me coming into the home. And usually it’s about a ten-hour, an eight-hour shift, like 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m…


RESPONDENT: …where I am in charge of taking care of the infant. If the mother is breastfeeding, then I take care of all the baby’s needs. Change them, put them to sleep. When they wake up I get the baby, bring her to mom. Really try to maximize the amount of rest that mothers get. So it’s very hands-on and parents usually love the support they get so they can get a little sleep together.

INTERVIEWER: Absolutely. That’s incredible. Now, how often would you go into someone’s home? Would that be maybe once a week, maybe a couple times a week? Or is it just one time and then that’s it?

RESPONDENT: Well, you know, it really ranges on the family. Some families have four nights a week for the first three months of their infant’s life. You know, and it really depends on what the family needs. Sometimes, you know, it’s just a moment of crisis and they just haven’t slept for two weeks straight and they just need one night of relief. So it’s really tailored to what each family needs and wants.

INTERVIEWER: That is absolutely amazing. Now I didn’t know that something like that existed. And I think that it’s just wonderful that new parents



can know that these kind of resources are available to them. And I’m certain that there’s other services that you provide that could really help out parents that they don’t even know about.

RESPONDENT: Yes! I think that it’s a very important thing for parents to know about postpartum doulas and their resources. And, you know, pretty much if you’re at a point where you have an infant and you’re a new parent, or even a second-time parent or third-time parent, and you are really struggling and it’s just causing stress in your family, in your marriage, and you really, you know, just need some support. I come in for all different types of reasons. Helping train babies to sleep, help getting babies on a schedule, help with colic. So really, no matter what you’re struggling with, even if it’s postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety, a postpartum doula can really come in and help you with that.

INTERVIEWER: Yeah. That’s wonderful. Now, speaking of schedules, and getting back to more on colic, is it important for a newborn to have a set schedule? Would that help some of those colic symptoms?

RESPONDENT: You know, I’m a huge advocate of routines. I don’t necessarily use the term schedule…

INTERVIEWER: Okay.

RESPONDENT: …because I think there’s an element of flexibility that needs to be involved when you have an infant who’s growing, who may need to eat every two hours instead of every four hours on the dot. So I strongly suggest routines with every family I work with. Infants really need to know that their needs are gonna be met. And one way that they do that is with a routine. Because it helps them know what’s coming next. Especially for bedtime and for morningtime routines. To be able, for an infant to know, “Okay, now I just got a bath. Now I’m gonna get my PJs.” You know, “Now I’m gonna have my last bottle.” It really helps them, first off, learn to sleep through the night. Because we need to teach ‘em that skill. And second, it really helps just make sure that their needs are met before it goes too long. Because an overtired baby is much harder to put to sleep than a well-rested baby.

INTERVIEWER: Now should these kind of routines start as soon as you come home from the hospital? I’ve heard from some people that, “Well, babies,” you know, “all they do is… just let them sleep.” Sleep, sleep, sleep. But what I find is that sometimes they get their nights and days confused.



RESPONDENT: They very much do. You know, when they’re in the womb they have no concept of day or night. They typically, as most moms would describe, sleep during the day because of this motion. We’re walking, they’re talking, they can hear voices – which really keeps them soothed – versus in the middle of the night they tend to be awake and kickin’ mom…


RESPONDENT: ….and not sleeping. So when they are born, we do really need to teach ‘em the difference of day and night. And that’s, you know, a very common thing that, you know, we need to work on.

INTERVIEWER: That’s a tough thing though for new parents, I think. A lotta times people say, “No, never wake a sleeping baby!” Do you think it’s okay to wake them to feed them, for instance?

RESPONDENT: Sure!

INTERVIEWER: Okay.

RESPONDENT: Well, what I think is, you know, during the first few months, I would say the first two months, it’s really important for you to just get used to your infant, develop a healthy feeding relationship, get as much skin-on-skin time you can – which really helps an infant to kind of bond and feel safe – during those first few months. I don’t really introduce a routine until they start hitting the 3-month mark. And that’s when you really want to start developing some sort of routine. It really helps the families prepare for what’s coming…


RESPONDENT: …and the infants. In terms of waking a sleepy baby, I’m not a big advocate of waking up your sleeping baby during the day. I think it’s very important to take advantage of those naps.


RESPONDENT: Get your nap yourself.

INTERVIEWER: (laughs)

RESPONDENT: Take a shower. Eat some lunch. I would only say to limit it. You really don’t want your infant to take more than a three-hour nap during the day. So if it gets to about three hours and they’re still sleepin’, I probably would wake ‘em up and…



INTERVIEWER: Yep.

RESPONDENT: …play with them. Just so they’re not getting their long stretches of sleep during the day. You want to save those up ‘til nighttime.

INTERVIEWER: Absolutely. You mentioned feeling safe. Now, will that, with the skin-on-skin contact, the bonding, have you found – because I know colic is not in every baby – but do you tend to find that the babies that are more bonded or the ones on routines or the ones that kind of feel safe, quote unquote, do they tend to be not quite so cry-ey? I mean, I know that’s kind of a hard question to ask but I’m wondering if you’ve seen anything in your practice where you can kind of get a little bit of insight on that.

RESPONDENT: Sure. Well, you know, it is hard to pinpoint. But in my experience, I do believe that infants that have a calm environment at home, that have parents that are able to, you know, meet their needs in terms of they have their food and they get their adequate amount of sleep during they day, they tend to just be overall easier to soothe. Like I mentioned before, once you miss that window of, you know, when they should be goin’ down for a nap or, you know, once they’ve gone too long on their food, it really is just hard for them to calm themselves down. So my goal is to meet their needs before they get to a place where they get so upset. And in general, I do think that that reduces the amount of colic and the amount of crying

INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Now let me ask you this, and you might not know the answer but it just came to me. Is there any correlation between the parents’ kind of behaviors with the children? And by that I mean, if the mom and/or the dad have kind of nervous habits or they’re kind of anxious adults, sometimes does that translate to the child? Could that be passed genetically? Is it hereditary? You know, I’m wondering about that.

RESPONDENT: Well, you know, there is an element of, you know, genetic and we call it temperament. So as people who have more than one baby know, sometimes they have three children with the same partner and they’re all completely different. And that’s what we call temperament.

In terms of transferring, you know, some sort of anxiety or anxious personalities, there are some times where you have an infant who’s just, in general, harder to soothe. Or in general, you know, you’re just a little bit more difficult personality. What I think is more important is what happens, is when a parent has nervous energy or



struggles with anxiety or even depression around their infant, it’s the energy that their infants are really responding to. It makes a huge difference in terms of a person’s ability to soothe an infant if they have their own anxiety as well. And that’s one thing I talk with my families, and I try to model, is being really overly calm and talking slowly and taking deep breaths even though you may be feeling an anxiety inside. And that’s really what you want to model to your infant, to show them that, you know, it’s okay and you’re calm and you’re in control. Which allows the infant to feel a little more safe.

INTERVIEWER: Now that’s something that moms and/or dads would have to really practice. That’s not something that might come naturally to them. Is that right?

RESPONDENT: That’s true. It does take a lot of practice. It’s a lot easier said than done.


RESPONDENT: And really just fakin’ it ‘til you make it is the best, you know, suggestion I have for that. And pay attention to your shoulders. When I’m holding an infant I always kinda put my hand on my shoulders, make sure that they’re calm. You know, take deep breaths while I’m holding the baby. Which is things you can do even when you’re anxious. And really just trying to slow down and use your calm voice and just do your best to fake it ‘til you make it…

INTERVIEWER: That’s a great expression. I love that.

RESPONDENT: Yeah! (laughs)

INTERVIEWER: And I think that moms and dads will have to do that not just while they’re holding the baby, but maybe other times during the day so that they can kind of train themselves to be this way all the time or maybe to get closer to that point of being calm and talking softly. Is it true? I think everyone talks about having a nice, calm environment for the child, where their rooms might be dimly lit or nice, soft music playing. But I think you’re right. I think if the mom and dad are just kind of exuding this nervous energy, it’s really all for naught. Is that right?

RESPONDENT: Yes. That’s what I would say as well.

INTERVIEWER: Now, are there any myths about colic that you want to clear up?



RESPONDENT: Well, you know, in thinking about myths about colic the main one that stands out to me is that, you know, colic is caused by one thing. And as we’ve mentioned a few times, colic is just a description of symptoms. It’s just a description that your child is, for some reason, experiencing a lot of discomfort. So really just helping families to know that it can be caused by many different things. And to make sure that you’re really assessing all the different things that may be going wrong with your baby. You know, doing the elimination of the diet if you need to, trying different soothing techniques and, of course, you know, going through the checklist of what may be wrong. I think that’s the most important thing to focus on.

INTERVIEWER: Exactly. Okay, Michelle, if we can retouch on how can parents assess if their child definitely has colic, and maybe some of the methods to soothe.

RESPONDENT: Sure! The most important thing, you know, in the beginning is obviously to assess whether they have colic. And the way that we do that is the Rule of Three. So it’s typically determined whether they have colic, did the crying begin within the first three weeks of life, does the crying last up to more than three hours of crying a day, does it occur at least three or more days a week, and has it continued for about three months. And that’s the general Rule of Three that I like families to use.

INTERVIEWER: Can you give our listeners any soothing techniques that you might know?

RESPONDENT: Sure! I would suggest to try the Five-S Method, which is outlined by Harvey Karp who’s the author of The Happiest Baby on the Block. The Five-S Method includes swaddling, shushing – which is using a white-noise machine, vacuum cleaner, or anything to mimic the sound in the uterus. The third one is swinging, or any other motions to keep them in a relaxed state. And sucking, which is having them suck on a pacifier or on a clean finger to calm them down. And then the fifth one is shushing, which is actually the shushing sound that really calms an infant.

INTERVIEWER: And the swaddling, can you explain that a little bit? What that means.

RESPONDENT: Sure. So swaddling, really a lot of babies kind of involuntarily flail their arms and legs while they sleep which actually sets off a reflex. So what swaddling does is you usually take a blanket and you’re



wrapping the fussy baby, you know, in a snuggly blanket before you put them to bed. A really great suggestion for a blanket that works great for swaddling is the Miracle Blanket. And you can go ahead and find that online. And it’s just a really great way to swaddle your infant so they’re safely not gonna kick the blankets over their face.

INTERVIEWER: Right. I was gonna mention that. Make sure it’s nice and tight.

RESPONDENT: Yes. Make those swaddles tight. The tighter, the better.

INTERVIEWER: Exactly. Okay. So there was swaddling.

RESPONDENT: Mm hmm.

INTERVIEWER: The next is…

RESPONDENT: The next one is…

INTERVIEWER: I’m just trying to get a little list for myself going here. (laughs)

RESPONDENT: Oh, sure! So we have swaddling. We have shushing.

INTERVIEWER: Okay.

RESPONDENT: We have swinging.


RESPONDENT: We have sucking.

INTERVIEWER: Okay.

RESPONDENT: And the fifth one, we have side-lying. Which I might have missed that first time.

INTERVIEWER: Ohh.

RESPONDENT: Side-lying is where you hold a baby in a position all across their arm, where your arm is laying on their stomach. And you kind of are holding them in this football hold, which applies just enough pressure to their abdomen to release the gas and help them feel more comfortable.

INTERVIEWER: That’s great.

RESPONDENT: Yeah!



INTERVIEWER: All these techniques, I don’t know that moms might have known any of these.

RESPONDENT: Yeah! And it’s a great thing. So you can actually pick up the video, which is The Happiest Baby on the Block which does a better job than I do at describing the Five S’s.


RESPONDENT: And also teaches you and shows you how to do them.

INTERVIEWER: Now I don’t think that we can maybe run the vacuum cleaner in the middle of the night, but I think you’ve hit on that, too, when a lot of infants… it’s funny you… some people say, “How can they sleep through all that noise?” But it’s because it’s what they hear when they’re in the womb, isn’t that right?

RESPONDENT: Exactly! The uterus, when they’re in the womb, it’s very loud. It’s always loud, they can hear voices, they can… although your voices may be muddled. And, you know, it’s just a very loud environment that they have this constant motion. So when you take an infant and you try to lay them down in a crib and it’s dark with no noise, with not being swaddled, you know, it’s very hard for an infant to be able to fall asleep when they’re so used to being, loud noises and lots of movement. So trying to mimic that the best way possible is the best way to go.

INTERVIEWER: Absolutely. You mentioned the sound machine. Now I’ve got one in the home. I don’t use it for the kids too often, they’re a little bit older.

RESPONDENT: Mm hmm.

INTERVIEWER: But there is a setting for a heartbeat. So that could be something that would be good for the baby?

RESPONDENT: Yes, that would be great for the baby. I like to incorporate that into the routine as well because once they may hear that heartbeat noise, that’s part of their routine. Then they know, “Oh! There’s that heartbeat noise. It must be time for bed.” So whether you use a nursery rhyme CD that’s really calm that you can just play over and over or you have a sound machine like you mentioned, as long as it’s kinda consistent, and make it a little louder than you think that they would like because…

INTERVIEWER: Hmm.



RESPONDENT: …it really helps those infants sleep.

INTERVIEWER: That’s great advice. But I do have a question about that.

RESPONDENT: Sure.

INTERVIEWER: I’m wondering if you incorporate and introduce the sounds to the infant, whether it’s a CD or what-not at night…

RESPONDENT: Mm hmm.

INTERVIEWER: …what happens when they get a little older? Are they going to need that sound all the time? And are they gonna need a CD in their room every night to fall asleep? It’s almost like maybe the parents who fall asleep to the TV and say, “I can’t sleep without the TV.” Will that happen or is that something that they’ll wean themselves off of?

RESPONDENT: Well, that’s a great question. And, you know, a lot of things, you know, we do do, we create a habit that eventually we need to break. But in this situation with the soothing music, in my experience I haven’t found that that is the case. Usually with white noise or music, once the infant is comfortable sleeping in their crib, they’re used to the routine, it’s a very easy thing to just slowly turn the music down where they won’t even notice over the days. Or, you know, even using it, you know, once they’re sleeping good to just not use it at all anymore. And I really haven’t seen any infants get addicted to that…


RESPONDENT: …sound machine. But it’s really helpful when you travel.

INTERVIEWER: Oh, that’s true.

RESPONDENT: You take that same CD with you and to bring it so they have a sense of routine because of the music. So it’s a great tool.

INTERVIEWER: That’s wonderful. Now, with the sleeping environments you mentioned always putting them in the crib. What advice can you give to parents if they are, for instance, nursing? So, they want to keep their child in a bassinet in their room. Is that the best thing to do or should they be putting the baby in their own sleeping environment in their own room?



RESPONDENT: Well, I think that’s a great question. There’s all variations of what families really like their infants to do, whether they’re right in bed with them or they’re right next to them in the crib. You know, any situation you can make work. The only thing I need to point out again, which I mentioned, is that every habit we create for an infant eventually we need to break.

INTERVIEWER: Mmm.

RESPONDENT: So if you teach your infant that they sleep in bed with you and this is the only way they know to go to sleep, there will be a point eventually where you need to train them to get, you know, whether it’s in their own bed or a crib, or if they’re four years old and they’re ready to go to their brother’s bunk bed, there’s gonna be a major transition. So just make sure you’re thinking of that before you’re creating any of these habits.

In terms of what’s best for the infant, I think that the baby is just as well off sleeping in bed with their mom as they are in the bassinet or in the crib. It just depends on the parents’ preference.

INTERVIEWER: And perhaps if they break that routine at the 3-month mark or at the 6-month mark, right? Not letting it go too long. I mean, that could be a discussion for a whole ‘nother hour. It could be talking about the family bed syndrome or whatever. But, yeah, I think you’re right. I think that it’s what’s best for the parents at the time.

RESPONDENT: Mm hmm.

INTERVIEWER: So that’s really great.

RESPONDENT: Yeah! And you can create a routine no matter where you want your baby to sleep. If your baby sleeps in a crib right next to you, or a bassinet right next to you, then that’s completely fine. Just incorporate your routine that’s still involved with putting your child to sleep in that spot every night.

INTERVIEWER: That’s true. And that’s something that I think that you mentioned before, having other children. I think that a bedtime routine should kind of be universal. And maybe the whole family should be involved. Not necessarily with putting the baby to sleep, but should be aware that, “Okay, it’s time for the baby’s routine.” So they need to kind of allow you to go upstairs and get the baby bathed or whatever your routine happens to be. Is that right? That the whole family should kind of understand what’s going on at night?



RESPONDENT: Oh, I think that’s a great way to do it. It really helps, you know, just even with your little ones, whether you have a 2-year-old or a 3-year-old. Where you can do the same thing every night where they know, “Oh, okay. Momma has to go put the baby to bed and I’m gonna be next,” or however you incorporate that routine. It helps with them accepting the baby a little bit more. Where there’s no routine and no communication with your older children, they may start to feel like you’re in that room all the time with the infant and they’re not as important. But if you have a routine and a dialogue with them, it helps them feel a little more safe about the transition as well.

INTERVIEWER: Absolutely. Do you find in your practice that you’ve had to deal with families that maybe the older children are having their sleep interrupted because of colicky babies? And if so, what do you do about that? I don’t know if there’s much you can do but. (laughs)

RESPONDENT: Yeah! Well, you know, I think colicky babies really affects the whole family. And even just bringing a new baby into the family. And really, you know, focusing on trying to meet the needs of the family when making decisions. You know, a lot of the times I come in and I listen to all the problems that may be going on, in terms of, you know, their toddler’s waking up or the mom’s not getting enough time with their 8-year-old ‘cause they’re in the crib. And really just taking a routine that’s tailored to your family, that incorporates each family member, I think is really important.

INTERVIEWER: Right. So it’s a case-by-case basis. Of course it’s never going to be a universal across-the-board “this is what you need to do.”

RESPONDENT: That’s right.

INTERVIEWER: Michelle, do you have any final words of wisdom for our listeners out there?

RESPONDENT: Yes! Well, my words of wisdom is just hang in there, know that it is very common, colic babies. About one in five babies born experience colic. Reach out for different resources. Contact your postpartum doula. Make sure you give yourself a break. And don’t feel guilty and fully responsible for not being able to make your baby happy. And just spend time with them, skin-on-skin time, and really focus on the positive times you have with your baby so once they get through this crying phase, you know, you can continue to enjoy one another.



INTERVIEWER: That’s great. Now, can you give our listeners your Web site and your contact information so that they can learn more about you and your services?

RESPONDENT: Sure! Listeners can contact me by looking at my Web site. My Web site is www.honestfamilyservices.com. And you can also find information for me at www.peoplehouse.org. And that’s pretty much the best place to reach me.

INTERVIEWER: Well, great! You know, Michelle, it’s been a pleasure talking to you today. I thank you so much for your professional insight.

RESPONDENT: Oh, well, thank you for having me. I really enjoyed being here and talking about babies today.

INTERVIEWER: (laughs) You’re welcome.

I’ve been speaking with Michelle Chrastil, Child and Family Therapist and certified postpartum doula, and founder of Honest Family Services, LLC in Denver, Colorado.

Michelle, this has been a very informative hour. I thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today and to share your professional insight with our listeners.

And for more information on Michelle’s husband’s company, Daddy Doula, please visit www.wherefathersgrow.com.

For ParentingHQ.com, I’m Heather White and thank you for listening. And be sure to check back often for new interviews with more experts.

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