Frazier Claiborne Sectoin 341 Meeting
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IN THE UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURTSOUTHERN DISTRICT OF MISSISSIPPI
IN RE:
HARRIS CLAIBORNE FRAZIER CASE NO. 08-03051-EE
CHAPTER 7 SECTION 341 MEETINGHELD ON MARCH 11, 2009
APPEARANCES:
Eileen Shaffer for BancorpSouth
Drew Malone for Egan Construction
Robert Kisselburgh for Holly Hughes
Billy Brunt for BankFirst
Breck Hines and Scott Holmes for HinesJohn Laws for Laws Construction
John Lyle for Acoustics, Inc.
TRUSTEE: Derek A. Henderson
TRANSCRIBED BY: Sherry L. Purvis, CSR #1566Certified Court Reporter134 Mallard Pointe DriveMadison, Mississippi 39110(601) 605-0229
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INDEX
Style and Appearances 1
Index 2-3
Certificate of Court Reporter 65
EXAMINATIONS
Examination by Trustee 4
Introduction of Parties Present 5
Continued Examination by Trustee 6
Examination by Ms. Shaffer 20
Examination by Mr. Kisselburgh 24
Examination by Mr. Brunt 30
Examination by Mr. Hines 31
Continued Examination by Trustee 40
Examination by Mr. Laws 41
Continued Examination by Trustee 42
Continued Examination by Mr. Laws 42
Continued Examination by Trustee 47
Continued Examination by Mr. Laws 48
Examination by Mr. Lyle 50
Continued Examination by Mr. Hines 51
Examination by Mr. Malone 52
Continued Examination by Mr. Brunt 53
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EXAMINATIONS
Continued Examination by Mr. Kisselburgh 55
Continued Examination by Mr. Laws 57
Continued Examination by Mr. Brunt 58
Continued Examination of Mr. Kisselburgh 59
Trustee's Questions to Various Attendees 59
Continued Examination of Trustee 61
Continued Examination of Mr. Kisselburgh 62
Continued Examination of Trustee 63
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TRUSTEE: All right. Next I've got Harris
Claiborne Frazier. Have a seat. If y'all are going to
ask questions, you might want to move up, so you can be
heard on the recorder. That's good. Just leave it there
for a minute. Sit over there, too, if you need to. Jim
Martin was coming back? Was he?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm here on behalf of
(unintelligible).
TRUSTEE: Okay. All right. I'm sorry. I'm
just getting all of this out of the way that I don't need
today, I don't think. Okay. Would you raise your right
hand, please?
HARRIS CLAIBORNE FRAZIER,
having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified
as follows:
EXAMINATION BY TRUSTEE:
Q. And you are Harris Claiborne Frazier?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. Mr. Frazier, this is your passport; is
that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you don't have a driver's license; is that
right?
A. I do. It's just misplaced.
Q. Okay. All right. Social security number is
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the same that's listed here?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And it is the same number that's listed
on this notice here, so I'm going to give that back to --
A. All --
Q. -- you.
A. -- right.
TRUSTEE: All right. I'm going to start around
on this side, and ask who's present.
MS. SHAFFER: Eileen Shaffer for BancorpSouth.
TRUSTEE: Okay. Bancorp. All right.
MR. MALONE: Drew Malone for Egan Construction.
MR. KISSELBURGH: Robert Kisselburgh for Holly
Hughes.
TRUSTEE: Spell that, please, sir.
MR. KISSELBURGH: K-I-S-S-E-L-B-U-R-G-H.
TRUSTEE: Okay. And you represent --
MR. KISSELBURGH: Holly --
TRUSTEE: -- Holly?
MR. KISSELBURGH: -- Hughes.
MR. BRUNT: I'm Billy Brunt, BankFirst.
MR. LINDSEY: Talbert (phonetic) Lindsey
(phonetic), BankFirst.
MR. HINES: Breck Hines and Scott Holmes on
behalf of Hines-Phillips, R. Scott Hines, Shirley Hines.
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Who else?
TRUSTEE: Okay. Behind you?
MR. LAWS: John Laws, Laws Construction.
TRUSTEE: Okay. I can't -- this lady's with
you?
MR. LAWS: My wife.
MR. LYLE: John Lyle, Acoustics, Inc.
TRUSTEE: Okay. Anybody else? All right.
CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY TRUSTEE:
Q. Mr. Frazier, did you provide the information to
your attorney for the preparation of your bankruptcy
schedules?
A. I did.
Q. Is the information listed here true and
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you listed all of your assets?
A. Yes.
Q. And have you listed all of your liabilities?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you transferred any property, real or
personal, to anyone in the past two years?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And I'm showing here on your statement
of financial affairs -- item number ten shows Amy Atwood
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Frazier -- you had in August of 2008 various things
through a divorce decree; is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And then I'm showing Amy Atwood Frazier
in 2007, transfer equity in marital home prior to the
divorce; is that correct?
A. Correct. It was -- it was not transferred to
her, though. It was transferred to her father.
Q. Okay. And that was in '07?
A. Correct.
Q. All right. And then you've got Shelby
Brantley, M.D. and others, an interest in Six Shooter Land
and Timber, October '06?
A. Correct.
Q. And then, also, to Shelby Brantley, M.D. and
others, October '06, a two-thirds interest in Frazier
Development's 50 percent warehouse building, Flowood; is
that correct?
A. It's not. It's -- it's 50 percent interest in
a warehouse development in Flowood.
Q. Okay. But Frazier Development had a two-thirds
interest in the 50 percent --
A. Of --
Q. -- is that not right?
A. It's not.
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Q. Okay. It's just --
A. Frazier Development had 50 percent interest in
the Flowood Development.
Q. Okay. All right. Other than those four
transfers that are listed here, have there been any other
transfers?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Did you review an information sheet with
your attorney regarding bankruptcy?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. Have you filed bankruptcy before?
A. Not personally.
Q. The company -- which company had filed
bankruptcy?
A. Frazier Development filed, but it was
dismissed.
Q. It was Chapter 11, wasn't it, and it was
dismissed as an 11; is that --
A. Correct.
Q. -- correct? Okay. Now, this was a year ago?
A. Year and a half.
Q. Year and a half. Okay. And I've got an
address on you of Grandview Circle, Brandon; is that still
a good address?
A. No.
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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Q. What's your address now?
A. 775 Gulf Shore Drive, and that's Destin,
Florida 32541.
Q. All right. You'll need to get your attorney,
Mr. Curtis, to get that address changed with the court, so
that any notices that come out of the court will be
mailed --
A. Okay.
Q. -- to that address, to be certain you get a
copy of --
A. Okay.
Q. -- everything. Okay. All right. Did you sign
this petition when it was filed?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you sign the schedules?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you review the information before you
signed it?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you need to make any changes or corrections
of any kind?
A. None, other than what we just made.
Q. Okay. All right. On the transfers we --
A. On --
Q. -- talked --
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Q. -- we'll get it clear. Okay. All right. And
then there's a debt on that, also; is that correct -- on
the lodge itself?
A. Correct.
Q. All right. But then you've got Mathena
Wetlands in Belzoni, six acres and a lodge?
A. That's misprinted. It's 550 acres, and -- and
there's a building. It's not a lodge.
Q. Okay. And there's a debt on that, also?
A. No.
Q. All right. What is it? Is that a hunting
camp?
A. It is.
Q. Do you own it 100 percent yourself?
A. No.
Q. Who owns it? How much do you own?
A. 20 percent.
Q. Okay. Who owns the other 80 percent?
A. Four other individuals.
Q. Okay. And who are they?
A. Larry Edwards. There's an Austin Frazier, my
brother.
Q. Right.
A. There's a Shelby Brantley and a Doug Hutchins.
Q. And I'm assuming 20 percent by everybody?
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A. Correct.
Q. Okay. All right. Mathena Wetlands has nothing
to do with Six Shooter? They're two separate pieces of
property?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And there is no mortgage on that 550
acres?
A. None.
Q. Okay. Colonial (sic) Crossing, which is 121
Colonial Crossing, Madison. What is in your name
individually?
A. Let me -- that must be a misprint. It's Colony
Crossing.
Q. It is Colony. I said Colonial. I'm sorry.
A. And we own -- Frazier Development owns
50 percent, and I own two-thirds of Frazier Development.
Q. I got you. All right. And Ergon owns the
other 50 percent?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And what's happened with -- who's
managing that now? Has Ergon taken that over and is
managing that?
A. We jointly do it.
Q. Okay. Who at Ergon is your contact person that
runs this?
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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A. On the property management side is a Keith
Clair.
Q. Know Keith.
A. But the partner in the development is a Robert
Lampton.
Q. Know --
A. He's --
Q. -- Robert.
A. -- the president of Ergon Properties, which
actually holds the -- the 50 percent of interest of
Frazier Development.
Q. All right. But when you talk about managing
the property and the income coming in and paying the note,
Keith Clair's handling that? That's who you deal with?
A. He -- he deals with the property management,
actually. Paying the note is another guy at Ergon named
Ken Hodges.
Q. All right. What happens to the rents that come
in every month? Where do they go?
A. They go to Ergon Properties.
Q. Okay. And you have that agreement with Ergon
that that's been handled that way?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And who do you talk to at Ergon if you
want to discuss the rents coming in and the notes getting
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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paid? Is that Keith Clair or Ken Hodges?
A. Both.
Q. Both. Okay. All right. Who owns the other
one-third interest of Frazier Development?
A. My father.
Q. What's his name?
A. C. E. Frazier.
Q. Okay. All right. The next is the Six Shooter
Lodge, which is the lodge itself that you told me about
earlier, right?
A. Correct.
Q. This has got land. It says transferred in
October 2006. So, actually, it's called the Six Shooter
Lodge, but it's really talking about land itself? That's
the --
A. That's the --
Q. -- twenty --
A. -- correct.
Q. -- five hundred acres, right?
A. Right.
Q. And that is the same property that we discussed
on the number ten that had been transferred back in
October of '06?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And then we've got the warehouse,
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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Flowood. And it says assigned 50 percent, 2006, Frazier
Development as 50 percent; is that --
A. That's correct.
Q. All right. Okay. So Frazier Development
had -- you own 50 percent, and Frazier Development owned
50 percent, and you transferred your personal 50 percent?
Is that what you're saying?
A. Actually, in the Flowood part, I -- Frazier
Development owned 50 percent.
Q. Uh-huh (affirmative).
A. The other 50 percent was held by a Steve
Davidson.
Q. Okay. So Steve Davidson and Frazier
Development were 50 percent owners, and you have
two-thirds interest in Frazier Development? And you gave
your interest of two-thirds in Frazier Development's 50
percent -- that's what was transferred to Shelby Brantley
and others; is that -- did I follow that right?
A. Almost. We actually transferred our -- Frazier
Development -- the entire 50 --
Q. Oh --
A. -- percent.
Q. -- okay. All right. So your father, in his
one-third, gave, also, and it went to Shelby Brantley?
A. Correct. And I want to point out it was the
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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intent on the Flowood Development to satisfy debt, but it
only satisfied about 85 to 90 percent of the debt --
Q. Uh-huh (affirmative).
A. -- so we -- the balance of the debt, we
collateralized with the Six Shooter land because that was
the only property that we had free and clear. And the two
other individuals were also in that hunting camp, and so
it was my request -- my attorney to set aside the transfer
on the land because it's far more valuable than -- than
the debt that was owed, so I can sell the Six Shooter
membership and satisfy the creditors.
Q. Okay. All right. Other than those tracts that
I just went over, do you have any land that's in your
name?
A. No.
Q. Okay. All right. And then this 50 percent of
Frazier Development -- this two-thirds of the Frazier
Development that you own to get the 50 percent -- does
Frazier Development have any assets now? What does it own
today?
A. The only thing Frazier Development still owns
is the shopping center in Madison, Colony Crossing, with
Ergon.
Q. Okay. Which has a debt on it of about
$12,000,000; is that correct?
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A. It's twelve million, seven fifty.
Q. Okay. When you say that shopping center -- is
the Bonefish and that building and those outparcels also
part of this?
A. No.
Q. Okay. The Wendy's, none of that -- you're
talking about the shopping center itself, where the Kroger
is and the Beef 'O'Brady's, the whole area there?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. All right. What about the 50 percent
interest in Flowood Development subject to assignment?
I'm not sure --
A. That's --
Q. -- what --
A. -- what --
Q. -- that --
A. -- we --
Q. -- means?
A. -- discussed. That's the -- the -- the
Flowood -- that's the warehouse development in Flowood
that Frazier Development assigned 50 percent back in
October of '06 to Steve Davidson. The entity that owned
that was Flowood Developers, LLC.
Q. I got you. You're just showing that as a
potential interest claim that if it comes back -- that's
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why it's listed --
A. I --
Q. -- here?
A. -- want to -- my intent is to place a value on
that, which is actually written at the bottom of the
assignment. And -- and -- and get the Six Shooter
assignment undone, so I can sell Six Shooter Lodge and
land, at it should, as a whole, of which I had buyers
lined up, but I hadn't been able to do that for obvious
reasons.
Q. Okay. All right. What about the Ergon
Frazier? What is -- what is that company?
A. Ergon Frazier -- the -- the correct name of the
entity that owns Colony Crossing Shopping Center is Ergon
Frazier Development I, LLC. Frazier Development has
50 percent, and Ergon Properties has the other 50 percent.
Q. All right. The place that you're living in
Destin -- who owns that?
A. My mother and my stepfather.
Q. Okay. Have they always owned it? It's never
been in your name?
A. Never been in my name.
Q. Okay. Has it been in Frazier Development
Company?
A. No.
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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Q. Just they've owned it since they bought it?
A. Correct.
TRUSTEE: Okay. All right. I'll start over
here at BancorpSouth. Do you have any questions you want
to ask?
EXAMINATION BY MS. SHAFFER:
Q. Mr. Frazier, Eileen Shaffer on behalf of
BancorpSouth. Under what company did you develop the
condos in Oxford?
A. Van Buren Group, LLC.
Q. And did you have an ownership interest in Van
Buren, LLC?
A. I did.
Q. And do you still have that interest?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. How do you see it listed on the
bankruptcy schedules?
A. It -- it -- it's been so long ago. There's one
condo left, and the bank -- and you may be involved in
this. There was an Oxford attorney that was working on
doing a judicial foreclosure to foreclose on that. We
listed BancorpSouth as a creditor. We dissolved Van Buren
Group. And, honestly, I don't know if title -- well, I
don't know if the title on that condo was actually in
Frazier Development, Van Buren Group. I understand that
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juvenile court for Williamson County, Tennessee, in the
matter of Ella Diane Hughes?
A. Yes.
Q. You understand you have been -- this court has
determined that you are the biological father of Ella
Diane Hughes?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And you also understand that you have
been ordered to pay certain amounts towards her support?
A. Yes.
Q. And you also understand that a judgement has
been entered against you for 100 -- excuse me -- $106,800
for back child support in addition to $3,900.06 for
medical bills, pertinent expenses, and $9,000 for
attorneys' fees? Do you understand that?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Have you amended your schedule to
indicate those amounts owed?
A. No. I just got it last night.
Q. Okay. Did you receive it before last night?
A. I got it -- my attorney might have, and we're
working on amending that here in Mississippi. But I just
got what you reflected delivered to me last night about
6:30.
Q. Okay. And where were you staying last night?
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A. In Brandon.
Q. At 79 Grandview Circle?
A. Yes.
Q. Does your wife currently live there?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So she's living at Grandview Circle in
Brandon, and you're living in Destin?
A. Yes.
Q. And I think you gave your address as 775 Gulf
Shore Drive?
A. Correct.
Q. Is there a condo number?
A. Yes, 36.
Q. Okay. And how long have you been living down
there?
A. I've been living there part-time since last
summer.
Q. Okay. Part-time you've been living there, back
and forth between here and Mississippi?
A. Correct.
Q. You still consider yourself to be a resident of
the state of Mississippi, correct?
A. For the next 30 days, yes. I'm fixing to move
down there permanently.
Q. Okay. And why?
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who has the direct contact with them.
Q. Okay. So the person in Birmingham that you
have contact with is -- what's their name?
A. Bubba Smith.
Q. Okay. And whereabouts is -- what's the company
he's working for in Birmingham?
A. He's kind of like me. He's with AIG Baker,
which is a development of AIG Insurance, and it's about to
shut down and melt down, and he's doing what I'm doing.
Q. Okay. You'd have the ability to get in contact
with Bubba Smith, though, wouldn't you?
A. Oh, yes, I do.
Q. Oh, you said that your mother and your
grandmother are currently helping you with monthly
spending -- monthly support; is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. How much are you receiving on that monthly
basis?
A. About 1,000.
Q. Plus, you're living rent free down at the
condo?
A. Correct.
Q. What are you driving?
A. GMC Yukon.
Q. That's all we have right now.
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A. Right.
Q. You've got $200 worth of stuff on right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at the current value.
MR. BRUNT: What?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to look at the
current value of his clothing.
MR. BRUNT: I just -- I just asked him.
Q. (By Mr. Brunt) $200?
A. My -- my --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We wouldn't get that in a
garage sale for the clothes you got on right now.
MR. BRUNT: That's all the questions I've got.
TRUSTEE: Hines?
MR. HINES: Yes, sir.
EXAMINATION BY MR. HINES:
Q. Claiborne, you said earlier the -- your
interest in Frazier Development was two-thirds, and your
dad owned a third?
A. And that's what it's -- currently is.
Q. What interest in Frazier Construction did you
have or do you have currently?
A. None.
Q. The various pieces of heavy equipment that are
up in Belzoni that are stored at Big Brake Hunting Club --
who owns those?
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A. Frazier Construction.
Q. And what about the Kubota tractor in the metal
building at Mathena?
A. I'm assuming, Frazier Construction.
Q. Okay. And are those pledged to anybody as
collateral, or does anybody have --
A. I don't know.
Q. -- liens on them? Big Brake Hunting Camp,
being, you know, an exclusive hunting club, you know --
who's paying your dues, or how are you --
A. My --
Q. -- paying those?
A. -- my mother paid them.
Q. And is she going to continue paying them?
A. That's the plan. Yes.
Q. I mean, is that -- instead of satisfying
creditors, that money can go --
A. She -- that's a place when the grandkids come
home, but that's -- that's -- she's going to continue --
Q. What --
A. -- paying --
Q. -- about --
A. -- them.
Q. -- furniture --
A. But as you know, Big Brake Hunting Club is for
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Q. And who owns it now?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did the Hines not have a charging order against
the -- against that asset?
A. No.
Q. Well, I'd like to make it be known that we did,
but I don't know what we can do about it here. I can
produce that charging order, and you've --
A. Let's --
Q. -- already --
A. -- clarify this. There were two buildings in
Tupelo. One we sold to Stanford Financial. The other was
an office building that our construction office used to be
in that BancorpSouth foreclosed on.
Q. How big was it?
A. 7,500 square feet. You may be getting
confused, Breck. The building downtown had a breezeway
through the bottom of it. And I guess someone could look
at it and think it's two buildings, but it was one.
The --
Q. Is --
A. -- one --
Q. -- that --
A. -- that --
Q. -- not --
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A. It's their decision. They're the manager. I
guess, cash calls -- Trustmark just renewed a $12,000,000
note for us. It's my contention that I want to hold on to
that through my trustee, and -- and sell that back when
the market goes up, which may be a year or two. So, you
know, they might see fit to -- to -- Ergon to let loose of
it, being that Trustmark just renewed that note, and
the -- we've -- we've kicked out a lot of tenants that --
that hadn't been able to pay rent. And the ones that are
paying are paying the -- the new note, the -- the monthly
note --
Q. But --
A. -- with --
Q. -- as --
A. -- Trustmark?
Q. -- of March 1st, is the -- I mean, is the
property cash flowing enough to cover the debt service?
A. Yes.
Q. So there's no more cash calls, at least -- when
was the last cash call that you remember?
A. Two years ago.
Q. Do you still own unencumbered the 20 percent
interest in Mathena Wetlands, LLC?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Who owns the metal building there that
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A. I was in Florida with my kids.
Q. And I understand you've got a new -- fancy new
golf cart in Florida?
A. I don't.
Q. Who paid for that?
A. I don't have a golf cart.
Q. Well, you were --
A. I don't have a golf cart in Florida. I --
Q. You were seen driving one. Whose were you seen
driving?
A. That would have been one that my mother bought.
Again, I didn't buy a new golf cart.
Q. Okay. And you spent Mardi Gras in New Orleans,
I understand?
A. I did.
Q. Where did you stay while you were down there?
A. At the Crowne Plaza.
Q. And who paid for that?
A. My wife.
Q. Okay. Are there any other assets that -- I had
a question I was going to ask -- were there any other
assets that are not listed on the schedule that you know
of?
A. No.
Q. Thank you.
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CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY TRUSTEE:
Q. What is Big Brake?
A. It's a hunting camp in Belzoni that my
stepfather owns with four other guys.
Q. Okay. So your -- your -- you don't -- do you
have any ownership interest in Big Brake?
A. No.
Q. Okay. That's different than Mathena Wetlands,
right?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. All right. You're just a member of the
club at Big Brake?
A. I'm -- I'm a junior member. My -- the -- the
main member is my stepfather.
Q. Okay. But you pay dues to be a member of that?
A. My mother paid, so that the grandkids could
come up.
Q. Right. But you don't own any of the land up
there? It's not in your name?
A. Correct.
Q. Never been in your name?
A. Correct. And when you say "land up there" --
Q. I'm --
A. -- Mathena --
Q. -- talking about Big Brake.
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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A. Big Brake.
Q. Yeah. I'm --
A. Okay.
Q. -- talking about --
A. All right.
Q. -- Big Brake only. I just wanted to be sure --
A. Because Mathena's --
Q. -- it --
A. -- about --
Q. -- was --
A. -- a --
Q. -- different.
A. -- mile away.
THE TRUSTEE: Okay. All right. The Laws?
EXAMINATION BY MR. LAWS:
Q. What's the status of the loan on Colony
Crossing? Did you say it had just been renewed?
A. Yeah. We -- to -- to give you my -- my
thoughts. The -- the -- the loan, twelve million, seven
fifty, was due in December. I had filed in October,
and -- and the -- my attorney failed to file a creditor
matrix on time, which is the reason this creditor meeting
has been pushed back two or three months. Trustmark, I
think, wanted to see, you know, if -- if the Trustee was
going to force me to sell, or if Ergon was going to buy my
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
Sherry Purvis, CSR - (601) 605-0229
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interest, and none of that happened. And I let Trustmark
know that I'm going to fight as hard as I can to -- to --
you know, through the Trustee, stay in the deal and see
the real estate market come back up, and -- and sell
Colony Crossing, which they saw fit to do that. And they
just gave us a -- a new note where we're paying principal
and -- and interest.
Q. What are the terms of that note?
A. I don't want to discuss that. I don't think it
matters. But I'll tell you they gave us a new note, and
it's a -- it's a good rate and good amortization. The
property's cash flowing, despite only being 78 percent
leased.
Q. Well, when does that note become due?
A. Five years.
Q. Five years.
CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY TRUSTEE:
Q. Who's your banker at Trustmark? Any particular
one that y'all --
A. George --
Q. -- use?
A. -- Gunn.
Q. Thanks.
CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY MR. LAWS:
Q. The rent for Ergon, you said goes to Ergon
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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Q. So you still own 50 percent of the partner --
or Frazier Development still owns 50 percent of the
partnership? (Unintelligible) --
A. That's correct.
Q. -- (unintelligible). Yeah.
A. That's --
Q. But they're accruing the balance of that
deficiencies, and so you'll have to make it up at some
point?
A. That's correct, and that's been whittled
significantly down.
Q. Do you know what the balance is?
A. It's -- I -- I don't know exactly.
Q. About?
A. About probably 450, 450,000, but -- but that's
for Ergon, and I'd be responsible for half of that.
I'd say, you know, 225.
Q. Explain the transaction from the Flowood
developers and Shelby Brantley, whoever else was involved.
Was that where Frazier Development was basically paying
personal debt?
A. Brantley and Davidson had an investment with
me, and --
Q. With you personally?
A. No. In a -- in a company.
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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Q. Which company was --
A. In --
Q. -- that?
A. -- a company. In Jackson Metro, in -- what's
the other one? Brantley had one in a Gluckstadt
restaurant. There -- there were three. I can't remember
the third. And they approached me and wanted me to assign
two pieces of property to them, and that would more than
satisfy the debt. So what I did -- I transferred my 50
percent of Flowood Development to them, and written at the
bottom of the assignment, I told them I wanted a value.
And -- and -- and we took 100,000 less than we were each
carrying it on our financial statement, and that value was
$250,000. Their -- Brantley and Davidson's original
investment was 300,000. They said they wanted Six Shooter
land, for me to assign that, and it was intended to be as
collateral because I view, even in this economy, the land
being worth 5, $600,000, but --
Q. Your --
A. -- that's --
Q. -- portion of it?
A. -- my portion of the land. That was the only
thing that I owned that didn't have any debt on it, and it
made sense to me, and I signed an assignment on the land.
And I'm asking my Trustee to overturn that assignment, so
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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I can sell Six Shooter land and Six Shooter Lodge,
collectively. That's the way it needs to be sold.
Q. What I'm trying to get an understanding of --
Frazier Development owned 50 percent of Flowood
Development, and you used -- and so when you say you owned
it, that was the LLC, though, and the transfer of that to
some partners in another deal --
A. Frazier Development -- my father and I
transferred it to Davidson and Brantley via their LLC,
which is called Club Woodlands. That's the way the
transfer document -- it's a two-page, simple document that
is -- is -- you know, I have.
Q. But was their debt with Frazier Development --
does the other side of the transaction (unintelligible)
Frazier Development or with Claiborne --
A. With --
Q. -- Frazier?
A. -- Frazier Development.
Q. Okay. Now, you say you're trying to challenge
or unwind that transaction?
A. I am.
Q. All portions of it, or just the portion with
(unintelligible) Frazier or with --
A. Well --
Q. -- Six Shooter?
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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A. -- let -- let me clarify. I'm not trying to
unwind the Flowood transaction. I'm trying to force the
value that's written at the bottom of the document --
250,000 on it. What I am trying to unwind -- and I've
tried the past year and a half through various
attorneys -- is the Six Shooter land transfer.
CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY TRUSTEE:
Q. I'm going to ask a question here to clarify and
make sure I understand. You agreed that, either through
Brantley and Davidson or Club Woodland, however you say
that -- you owed them some money --
A. Correct.
Q. -- right? So you gave them the Flowood
Development for basically a credit, but y'all agreed on a
number, and it was $250,000?
A. Correct.
Q. And so once you gave them that, how much more
did you owe them at that point? How much were you
collateralizing?
A. In -- in my mind --
Q. Yeah--
A. -- I owed them about another $75,000.
Q. Jointly or each?
A. Jointly.
Q. Okay. All right. So you owed another 75,000
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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to them after you gave them Flowood Development, and so to
secure that 75,000, you were giving them an assignment in
Six Shooter until you could pay them the 75,000?
A. That's correct.
TRUSTEE: Okay. All right. Sorry. I just --
MR. LAWS: (Unintelligible).
TRUSTEE: I was trying to --
CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY MR. LAWS:
Q. Other than the Trustmark loan with Ergon
Frazier, have any of your other loans been paid or
refinanced? Are there any entities that you're involved
with -- any other loans that have been paid or refinanced
in the last six months?
A. No. I have no other loans.
Q. Do you have any life insurance with a cash
value that you're able to borrow against?
A. No.
Q. And have you received any income out of Ergon
Frazier in the last 12 months?
A. No.
Q. What's the status of C. E. Frazier
Construction?
A. The -- it was -- the bonding company took it
over in November of '07. My brother and father worked a
deal with Mike Harrell -- or my father worked a deal with
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Q. Okay. That's really all (unintelligible).
MR. HINES: (Unintelligible) would like to
follow up.
TRUSTEE: Okay. Go ahead. For the record,
just say who you are.
MR. HINES: Yes, Breck Hines, again.
CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY MR. HINES:
Q. Claiborne, you mentioned when I questioned you
earlier that you didn't have anything to do with equipment
in Belzoni. Have you been out there recently trying to
negotiate a sale to a local farmer in Belzoni of that
equipment?
A. I've got some people that are interested, and
I've -- there -- there's been two people that are
interested in the equipment. I've turned that over to
Austin. I've been up there because I keep stuff in my
room, but it was not just to negotiate a sale. No.
Q. Okay. So you're negotiating -- I mean, you
were talking to this guy about selling the equipment, but
yet you don't keep up with what's up there with this
gooseneck trailer that's all of a sudden gone missing?
A. I let him in the gate when I was going up there
to -- to get some clothes that I keep in my room, but, no,
I'm not negotiating (unintelligible) --
Q. So he may have stole it?
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TRUSTEE: Anybody?
MR. BRUNT: Yeah, one more.
TRUSTEE: Go ahead.
MR. BRUNT: Billy Brunt with BankFirst.
CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY MR. BRUNT:
Q. Claiborne, you mentioned that if you can get
the Six Shooter unwound, then you'll be able to sell it, I
guess, in an open market -- your interest in it?
A. Correct.
Q. Which means the condo and the land part, which
is what? 17, 16 percent, 16.6 percent?
A. The -- I own a seventh interest in the land
that was transferred, and I own a sixth interest, 16.6
percent in the lodge.
Q. If you're able to unwind all of that and you're
able to sell it, in your agreement with those other
partners, will you sell it to anybody you want to?
A. I can, but they do have a first right of
refusal on the land. We -- until I got into financial
trouble, there was no operating agreement on Six Shooter
Lodge. Now, they did run out there and put one together
that my brother and I -- Austin did not sign, so we're
operating under the state statute as far as we're
concerned.
Q. Okay. I guess the point is, if all of that
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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happens, and you get equity, how -- how much equity do you
think you would have? If you're successful in getting
that unwound and selling it, how much equity would you be
able to pull out of your interest in the land and the
lodge?
A. I contend in this market I could have 6 or
700,000 to go to creditors. Who knows, you know -- the
market goes up, you know, I'm -- I'm asking a million for
it, and we've got two people interested. But the other
members don't want me -- and I hadn't paid my dues -- they
don't want me on the property.
Q. Yeah.
A. And I'm trying to go about it the right way,
through the attorneys. My hope is it's up -- up close to
900 or a million, but, you know, it'll probably end up
being around 6, 700.
TRUSTEE: They've got a -- the other owners are
relying on the LLC agreement that they had or the state
statute, and they're basically claiming that you can't
sell this without their permission. I don't know if
they're right or not, but that's what they're saying now.
And they're keeping track of what is being called on for
cash, and what they're paying, and he's not paying his
share. And they've got an accountant and a valuation guy
by the name of Ralph Ross. Some of y'all probably know
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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Q. 2006?
A. No.
Q. 2005?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. When do you anticipate the 2006 or '07
taxes will be filed?
A. It's contingent on my accountant working out a
deal with the Trustee on payment to wrap up some LLCs.
There is a letter that was delivered yesterday, I'm told,
by my attorney's runner, to Derek's office. And my
accountant wants Derek to acknowledge this letter
regarding, you know, payment to do this work.
Q. Okay. What's your accountant's name?
A. Robert Parker.
Q. Where does your wife work?
A. Fox-Everett.
Q. And what does she do?
A. She is an account manager for insurance.
Q. That's all. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Henderson, pardon my
ignorance. How do I request a transcript of today's
(unintelligible)?
TRUSTEE: U. S. Trustee's office right here.
What they'll do is give it to you on a disk like this, and
you can play it, and then you can transcribe it yourself
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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or give it -- so... But instead of all of y'all doing it,
you might want to do one and make copies, and just kind of
share the costs. Mr. Laws?
CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY MR. LAWS:
Q. I have one more question. When did y'all last
receive an offer on the purchase of (unintelligible)?
A. Gosh. About eight or nine months ago.
Q. And what was the amount of that offer?
A. It was 18 -- 18.3 million, and it had a
financing contingency in there, and we had gotten
Trustmark receptive to financing the balance. This
company was putting down 40 percent. And we felt good
about it, and then the company shut the doors. It was a
company out of Ohio. And then about four months ago Ergon
had sold some property, and they were doing a section 1031
exchange. I was trying to sell my interest to them, and I
gave them a -- a number that I contend was about 75% of
what I felt like the value was worth, and they ended up
buying something else. It's actively on the market, not
through a broker, but we are trying to sell it.
Q. What was your value to Ergon?
A. My value for my interest was $2,000,000.
Q. And that was after the loan -- right after the
loan was paid off (unintelligible) --
A. No. That was just Ergon had money, and they
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declined. No, they haven't.
CONTINUED EXAMINATION OF MR. KISSELBURGH:
Q. Robert Kisselburgh for Holly Hughes. Have they
made you any offer?
A. They have made a verbal offer --
Q. Of what?
A. -- that they might pay a million dollars back
about three or four months ago.
Q. Who made --
A. The --
Q. -- that --
A. -- the --
Q. -- offer?
A. -- the property management guy that -- that --
that -- Keith Clair is his name. That they might pay a
million dollars, and I let him know that, you know, no, I
wouldn't -- I wouldn't take that. That I wanted to --
through -- of course, since I'm in a Chapter 7, through my
Trustee, I was going to do everything I could to convince
him to let's ride this market back up and sell it for, you
know -- it -- it -- where it should have sold, that we
came close to selling, you know, two or three years ago.
Q. Okay.
TRUSTEE: Eileen, does BancorpSouth have any
collateral left that it hasn't foreclosed, or you going to
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try to get the stay lifted on?
MS. SHAFFER: I don't know what they're going
to do about the stay.
TRUSTEE: But do you know of any collateral
they got left?
MS. SHAFFER: I think there may be tract
(unintelligible).
TRUSTEE: Okay. All right. What about
BankFirst -- has it got any?
MR. BRUNT: I'm sorry.
TRUSTEE: Do you have any collateral that has
not been foreclosed or anything like that?
MR. BRUNT: No, sir.
TRUSTEE: Okay. Is anybody in here a secured
creditor that has collateral on something?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got various charging
orders on items. I don't know whether that makes us a
secured creditor or not. I mean, Mathena Wetlands, for
instance, we placed the first charging order on it before
anybody else knew about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Derek, you know, and I
tried in an effort to satisfy the Hines and Laws -- there
was, you know, assignments and transfers for developer
fees and stuff like that, and charging orders that I've
worked with them over the past couple of years on.
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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TRUSTEE: All right. If you've got that, would
you just send them to me -- what you got, so I'll know
what you believe --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think all of this has
been filed already on the docket, and I think
(unintelligible) most of y'all's has too, hasn't it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. I mean, everything
should be -- should be -- or filed, at least in Madison
County, I believe, or else filed with the bankruptcy
court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, are they?
TRUSTEE: Have you already done that, too?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Unintelligible).
TRUSTEE: Okay. Well, you can file them that
way. I just -- trying to decide because if the issue
would be that if we do turn in -- like Mathena, if we
decided to sell that somehow, we got to know who's got
liens against it, so we can notify them, so we'll know
whether we're getting money out of it or whether we're
just giving it to the lienholders or what we need to do.
I just want to be certain.
CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY TRUSTEE:
Q. All right, Mr. Frazier. I know you've answered
a lot of questions already. But, generally, you've got --
which we don't know what the taxes are going to be yet, if
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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any, right?
A. Right.
Q. Okay. And we don't know what your support
payments, child support, domestic, whatever, is going to
be, either. You've got them listed here, but you don't
actually know; is that right?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. You realize, generally, that both of
those items, though, are nondischargeable in a bankruptcy?
A. I understand that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do we --
TRUSTEE: Sir?
CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY MR. KISSELBURGH:
Q. Are you going to amend the schedule with regard
to the order that was entered in Tennessee.
A. We are going to attempt to amend the judgement.
I didn't have the financial -- the financial information
to submit. And I'm interviewing two attorneys today to
work on amending that judgement, so expect that. But if
there's something that I need for current -- I'll -- I'll
get with my attorney, and -- and -- and get what's
currently in place on the bankruptcy.
Q. Have you paid anything towards the care of Ella
Hughes?
A. No.
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Q. Since her birth?
A. No.
TRUSTEE: I'm going to have the court send a
notice out that's going to set a claims bar date. I would
suggest that you file within that bar date, regardless of
whether you've got discharged or not. And then you've got
it on record of what you say you're owed, and if it gets
resolved or changed, you can take it up later. But you
don't want to let that date run on you, and not, at least,
have your claim filed.
CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY TRUSTEE:
Q. And then where you're working now -- like you
said, you're affiliated with this Americo broker. That's
what you testified about (unintelligible). But before
that, you had not been employed since October; is that
correct?
A. That's right.
Q. And your income right now is family
contributions, other than what you're making as a
commission --
A. Correct.
Q. -- is that right?
A. Correct.
Q. And these lawsuits that you've got listed here,
all are lawsuits, I think, that are listed against you or
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009
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the companies. But you don't have any claims that are
listed here, other than the one you told me about, but
it's not actually listed because it hadn't been filed;
is --
A. Correct.
Q. -- right?
A. It has not been filed.
Q. Okay. I think you need to get with Mr. Curtis
and be certain that your schedules get amended to reflect
everything that was asked here today on the ownership
interests, boats, four-wheelers. Anything you've got, you
need to be certain that it's in here. Okay. And if
there's an issue about clothes or personal property or
trailers, you're going to get another chance to get that
right. Let's be certain that you get it right. Okay?
A. Okay.
Q. But you need to talk to him and be serious
about itemizing the stuff out item by item. Okay?
A. Okay.
TRUSTEE: Anybody else? All right. That's all
I've got today. Thank you.
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Section 341 Meeting - 03/11/2009 65
CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER.
I, Sherry L. Purvis, Court Reporter and Notary
Public, in and for the State of Mississippi, hereby
certify that the foregoing 65 pages contain a true and
correct transcript of the Section 341 Meeting of Harris
Claiborne Frazier, to the best of my ability.
I further certify that I am not in the employ
of or related to any counsel or party in this matter and
have no interest, monetary or otherwise, in the final
outcome of this matter.
Witness my signature and seal this the _____
day of March, 2009.
SHERRY L. PURVIS, CSR #1566
My Commission Expires:
May 5, 2010