Fifth Cosby Unsealed Doc
Transcript of Fifth Cosby Unsealed Doc
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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT
O U R ~
FOR
THE
EASTERN
DISTRICT
OF P E N N S Y L V ~
ANDREA CONSTAND
Pla in t i f f
CIVIL
ACTION
NO.
05-1099
v.
WILLIAM H.
COSBY
JR. ,
Defendant
Phi lade lphia ,
P e n n s ~ a n i a
November
4,
2005
--J
J ~
Ir :
6
MICHA
, v
200
TELEPHONE
CONFERENCE
By
BEFORE
THE
HONORABLE
EDUARDO C.
ROBRENO
UNITED STATES DISTRICT
COURT
JUDGE
APPEARANCES:
For the Pla in t i f f :
For the Defendant:
Audio
Operator :
Transcribed
by:
DOLORES
M. TROIANI, ESQUIRE
Troiani /Kivi tz ,
LLP
38
North Waterloo Road
Devon, PA
19333
PATRICK
J .
O CONNOR, ESQUIRE
GEORGE M. GOWEN I I I , ESQUIRE
Cozen
O Connor
1900
Market St ree t
Phi lade lphia ,
PA
19103
J . Matkowski
Paula
L.
Curran,
CET
(Proceedings
recorded by For the Record Gold sound
recording; t r an sc r ip t provided by AAERT-cert i f ied
t r ansc r ibe r .
merican ssociation of
Electronic Reporter5 Transcrib ers Inc.
Laws
Transcription Service
48 W. La Crosse
Avenue
Lansdowne,
PA
19050
610) 62:J-4178
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(The
fol lowing occurred v ia te lephone
conference.)
THE COURT:
Good morning, t h i s i s Judge
Robreno and
I
have you on
the
record .
May I
have the appearances
of
counsel
beginning with
p l a i n t i f f s
counsel?
MS. TROIANI:
Dolores Tro ian i for Andrea Constand.
Good
morning,
your
Honor.
THE
COURT:
Good morning.
And
for
the
defendants?
MR.
O CONNOR:
Pat r ick
O Connor for the Defendant
Cosby,
along with George Gowen.
THE
COURT: Okay,
well , good
morning.
MR.
O CONNOR:
Jack Schmidt
i s
a l so on
the l ine ,
s i r .
THE
COURT: Yes,
well ,
good morning,
Mr. Schmidt.
This i s a s t a tus
conference .
I wi l l
not
be
making any
ru l ings on
the meri ts .
But
I
wanted to
review
where
we a re
and where w e re going.
Let me j u s t
say
tha t I
have read
every page and every
l i ne of the
mater ia l s t ha t you
sent
me.
So, I th ink I
have
a sense ,
not on ly
for the t r ees , but
a l so
for the fo res t of t h i s case .
And
l e t me
make
j u s t a
couple
of
comments here .
Number one,
t h i s
i s
a
d i f f i c u l t case
for the lawyers
to
handle , from both s ides . And
I apprec ia te
t ha t and
I
have
a
sens i t i v i t y
to
tha t ,
as
well . And
I
th ink
t ha t
both
s ides
have, within the
d i f f i c u l t
burdens t ha t they are ca rry ing,
done
the
bes t
t ha t
they
can
for t he i r
c l i en t s .
2
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Now t comes a t ime to cut the Gordian
ph)
knot
and get to the bottom
l ine
here . And I th ink t h i s i s what I
would l ike
to
do. These
are
going
to
have to be determined
4
on
a
one-by-one
basis to
the
extent
tha t
anyone
wishes
to
5
seek to compel
a
fur the r answer.
And
what
I
th ink
w
should
6 do
i s the following. The par ty seeking
to
compel an answer
3
7 o r a fu l l e r
answer to
a question wil l
f i l e
a
motion
to compel
8
and tha t
wil l be
done
as fol lows. Each ques t ion and
each
9
answer
which
i s
in
controversy
wil l
be on
a separa te page.
10 There wil l
be
a quest ion, there wil l
be
the
answer
and then
11 there wil l
be
a br i e f c i t a t ion to the
author i t i es
and a one,
12
two or three l ine explanation why
tha t
act ion should be
13 compelled.
14
The party
opposing the
reques ts wil l then f i l e
a
15
response
and tha t should
also
be
done
each
response
on
a
16
separa te page. So
tha t
w
wil l
have
the oppor tuni ty
to
have
17 the quest ion,
the
answer
and
the
response,
together with
the
18
explanat ions, a l l in two pages, one for each side. So, the
19 responding par ty should number the response
by
the
same
20
number
as the
reques t .
21
Addit ionally, each
s ide
wil l
be
af forded
the
22 oppor tuni ty to submit probably no
longer than
a f ive
page
23
summary
of the
subs tant ive
arguments,
i f
they
wish
to
do
24
tha t . There
may
be
themes or there
may
be
par t i cu l a r running
25 object ions
tha t
may need to be t i ed up and I
want to give
you
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the oppor tuni ty to do t ha t . We
w i l l
do t ha t . We
w i l l giv
15 days fo r the motions to compel and each s ide wi l l
revie
the
t r a ns c r ip t and make whatever reques ts each s ide wants
make.
And
then
the
par ty
opposing
them
wi l l
then
have
15
days
to
respond to it
The second i ssue i s whether o r not
these
proceedi
should
then
be
conducted under
some spec ia l ru les
of
c o n f i d e n t i a l i t y . Or
whether they
should be t r e a t e d in
the
same manner t ha t othe r l i t i g a t i o n i s t rea ted , i . e . , t ha t
while the
discovery
i t s e l f i s conf iden t ia l ,
o rd i n a r i l y
proceedings involving the Court and
enforcement
of the
Cou r t s o rde rs , a re conducted in
open
cour t
and on
the
record .
And
t he re can be p r e t t y
good
arguments
both
ways.
So
the
way to jo in t h a t i s sue ,
it
seems to me i s
these
reques t s
should be
f i l e d under
sea l and the
answers
should
f i l ed
under sea l .
When
t h a t
i s completed then t he re wi l l be an
oppor tuni ty for
any par ty t ha t
wishes
to argue t ha t
the
se
should not be l i f t e d , to
so show.
And an oppor tun i ty to
oppose
t ha t . That i s , it
seems to
me
t h a t
before we have
argument
of whether o r
not
the sea l
should be l i f t ed ,
we n
to have on the record
what
it i s t h a t i s going to be
subje
pub l i c
review.
MS.
TROIANI:
Your Honor
excuse
me.
THE COURT:
Yes?
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MS. TROIANI: Do
you want
the
motion about the
sea l
to
be
publ ic?
THE
COURT: No,
well , t h a t s a
good po in t .
I
suppose
t
shou ldn t
be.
MS. TROIANI: Well, I
thought
the Court had
a l ready
ru led
t ha t
the re
wasn t
going to
be c onf ide n t i a l i t y
in
t h i s
case.
THE COURT: Well,
yes, except t ha t
for
discovery,
the par t i e s
had agreed t ha t the re
would be
conf iden t i a l i ty .
Th a t s
the
po in t of t h i s whole t h ing .
MS.
TROIANI:
No,
we did not .
We agreed , s i r ,
tha t
they could
f i l e
a motion fo r
conf ident ia l i ty .
THE
COURT: Yes.
MS. TROIANI: So, we t h ink tha t
t h a t s
the f i r s t
i s sue
here .
THE COURT: Well,
you
c a n t f i l e a
motion
un t i l
you
know what
t
i s
t ha t i s
going to
be
held conf iden t i a l .
MS TROIANI:
Mm-hmm.
THE COURT:
So, t h a t s
what
I
want to
lay
the
pred ica te
on
the
record
of
what
t
i s
t ha t
i s
going
to
be
conf iden t i a l .
So,
I am
suggest ing a
two-step process .
5
Number
one, tha t the reques ts
to compel and
the oppos i t ions
be
f i l e d
under
sea l .
Then
the
second
point
i s
whether
o r
not
those
mat te rs tha t are f i l ed under
s ea l - -
whether
o r not
the
sea l should
be
l i f t e d . And then a t
the
conc lus ion
of tha t ,
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w e l l have an
answer
to
t ha t ques t ion .
The
d i f f i c u l t y
here i s the fol lowing. That
the
cour t s
have recognized t h a t c o n f i d e n t i a l i t y can be
a t tached
to
discovery
because,
among
o ther
reasons , the
Court i s
no
d i r e c t l y
involved. The pa r t i e s
p r i v a t e l y can make
those
arrangements .
I f the motion to compel becomes a veh ic l e
to
d i sc lose
the d iscovery , then the e n t i r e poin t of
any
agreement t h a t
the pa r t i e s
have o r any des i re t h a t the
cou
have endorsed in
the pas t fo r discovery , as opposed
to
cou
proceedings, to remain conf iden t ia l , it would be po in t l e ss .
Now
it
may
j u s t
be t h a t
t h a t s
the
way
it i s . I
mean,
I d o n t
know
the
answer to
t ha t .
But
ce r t a in ly , t h a
what
the
ques t ion
i s going
to
be· whether o r not the access
to
the cour t
which
has been endorsed
by
the Supreme Court
a
which in
t h i s case,
I had
i n i t i a l l y ru l ed
on,
how
t h a t
i s
balanced
within
the
context of d iscovery .
And I l i k e to w
before I run
on t h a t
i s sue . So, t h a t s why I m suggest ing
t h a t we do t ha t .
I mean, we
could
a l l , in the abs t rac t , m
arguments
one
way o r the othe r , but we
won t
know how they
apply to
t h i s case
un t i l
I
know
s pe c i f i c a l l y what it i s t h a
you
are seeking
to
compel.
Maybe
y o u l l
go back, y o u l l r e - read the t r a ns c r ip
and
y o u l l
pick
out ,
you
know,
a
couple
of ques t ions ,
maybe
you
pick out 100
ques t ions .
I d o n t
know
what you wi l l do.
So, let s do it one
a t
a t ime.
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MS. TROIANI: And how do we f i l e our
motion to
lif
the sea l?
THE
COURT This i s how t h a t s going
to
be done.
And
I ll
have
an
order ,
by
the
way
on t h i s .
I
j u s t
wanted
to t a lk to you because
I th ink it s
helpful to
hear
your
comments
and
then to a l so be ab le to address
your
concerns .
Par t i e s seeking
to
compel the answers
in
the
manne
in which
I
have
descr ibed, wi l l
have
15
days to
do t ha t .
Par ty
opposing wi l l then have
15
days to respond. So
we
have a 30-day cyc le the re
and
tha t
should
be
f i l ed
under
sea l .
Now once you have t ha t in hand the re w i l l be
15
days
to
f i l e
a
motion in response to why
the
sea l should not
be l i f t e d .
And
whoever wishes
to
oppose the
l i f t i n g
of the
sea l ,
should
do
t ha t . Maybe nobody
wi l l
oppose
it,
maybe
they
wil l . The par ty who
d o es n t want
the
sea l l i f t e d shoul
then
f i l e
a
motion within
15
days.
And
the
par ty
who
wishes
the
sea l l i f t e d ,
they wi l l oppose t ha t
and
t ha t w i l l be a
30-day cyc le . At t ha t poin t
- - and
t ha t
should
a l so be
f i l e
under
sea l .
At
t ha t po in t ,
I
wi l l have
both the record
and
the
motions and
I
may decide and then
w e l l
have argument on
the
record
o r
whether
I
w i l l
decide
the i s sue
r igh t
the re
and
w e l l
see
what happens. Okay.
Any comments here?
Ms.
Troiani ,
you
seem
to
be dis turbed
by
t h i s
proceeding.
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MS.
TROIANI:
Yes,
I
am
your Honor,
I m
extremely
dis turbed by
t h i s .
THE
COURT:
Okay.
MS.
TROIANI:
Mr.
Cosby
chose
to
defame
our
c l i en t
in
the
media.
THE COURT:
Right .
MS.
TROIANI:
I mean, you ve
read
t ha t p a r t of
the
depos i t i on and
al though
we d i d n t ge t
many
answers,
but he
show t ha t our c l i en t
was
t e l l i n g
the
t r u th .
THE COURT:
Mm hmm.
MS. TROIANI:
I m very
concerned about t h i s
procedure . This i s t o t a l l y
d i f f e r e n t
than
any
o ther case
tha t i s
handled . Our cour t s a re not
sec re t . Our
cour t s a re
open to
the publ ic
and
t he y r e
open to
the publ ic
fo r
a
reason.
And
tha t
i s
to
preserve
the
i n t eg r i t y
of
t h i s
process .
And Mr.
Cosby
should not
be granted
s t a r
s t a tus in
the system. And I am extremely concerned
about t ha t .
We
as
lawyers ,
must
come to
cour t
knowing
tha t
no
mat te r who
our
c l i en t
i s ,
t he y r e
going to
be t r ea ted l ike
any o ther
c l i en t .
And your Honor and I m
c e r t a in ly
saying
t h i s
with a l l
due
respec t
to
the
Court ,
there
i s
abso lu te ly
no
reason
when
a
man chooses to go
publ ic
and put h i s defense in the
newspaper, why when
we
have decimated
tha t
defense and he
has
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....
now
we
have to
conduct t h i s
l i t i g a t i o n
under sea l .
I am
a l so
concerned
t ha t
Assoc ia ted Press
came
to
you,
t r i e d to j o in
in the
motion fo r
c onf ide n t i a l i t y
and
now
they have no
way
of
knowing
what s
going on
here . They
have
no way
of now
presen t ing t h e i r case.
You a l ready ru l ed tha t
t h i s i s
not conf iden t i a l . Frankly , your Honor, our
c l i en t
has th ree
ways of
v ind ica t ing
herse l f .
Sett lement ,
t r i a l o r
by
having
the publ ic be
made
aware
through
these motions,
what i s going
on
in t h i s cour t system.
THE
COURT: Okay,
well ,
then
y o u l l
make your
argument. I
mean,
t h a t s the
essence
of the
argument.
Nobody - -
I m
not ru l ing
on
t ha t
argument. I f
t h a t s the
argument tha t
wins
the
day, t h a t s
what s
going to
happen.
MR
O CONNOR: I
th ink Ms.
Troiani
has
revea led
her
t rue
in ten t ions
i n t ry ing
t h i s
case , seeking
j u s t i c e
three
ways. Through se t t lement , through
a
t r i a l and then through
the
newspapers.
And
I f ind
tha t
to
be an outrageous
sta tement .
THE COURT: Okay.
9
MR
O CONNOR:
Your Honor has ru led
tha t she
w i l l
have an
oppor tuni ty
to
at tempt
to unsea l
discovery . But I v e
been
prac t i c ing
law
fo r a
long
t ime
and
I v e
never had
discovery in any case
tha t I v e
been involved with, bandied
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about in the pres s . Discovery i s between
the par t i e s .
It s
not
what
occurs in
open
cour t . What
Ms. Troiani
has been
a t tempt ing
to
do
throughout
t h i s
case i s crea te
issues which
would
enable
her
to
f i l e
motions
which
would
circumvent
the
c onf ide n t i a l i t y t h i s
Court has imposed on discovery .
THE COURT Okay I haven t imposed anything
and the
poin t
i s
tha t w e re
going to
do t h i s one
s tep
a t a t ime. The
presumption
of
access i s the re . Tha t s why
the
show cause
would
be
upon
the
par ty , why
the
s ea l should not
be
l i f t e d .
So
the
presumption i s not
a
presumption
t ha t
it w i l l
be
conf iden t i a l , but the re
may
be reasons why
in whole
o r in
pa r t ,
some
aspec ts
may
be
co n f id en t i a l
including, I r e c a l l i f
my
memory i s
cor rec t ,
t ha t the p la in t i f f wanted the names of
the
Jane Does
to
remain conf iden t ia l a t one t ime. There was
some informat ion
concerning
t h i rd pa r t i e s
tha t
may
- - the
Court may
have to
take i n to
account maybe
not .
So
I th ink tha t
both
of
you
are
ge t t ing
ag i t a t ed
premature ly.
This
i s
a cour t
proceeding
t ha t needs
to
be
conducted in
an
order ly
fashion
so
t ha t
the re wi l l
be an
appropr ia te
record fo r review.
And
as I ind ica ted to you
the re are a l o t of sens i t ive i s sues involved. The pa r t i e s
involved t h i rd pa r t i e s ,
the
i n t e re s t of
the
publ ic . All of
those
have
to
be
c a re fu l l y
assessed
and
we
could
j u s t
simply
do it one way o r the o ther and I d o n t t h ink t ha t would be
appropr i a t e .
I th ink the Cour t s f i r s t
ru l ing ind ica ted
a
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des ire
to have the
eye of
the publ ic on t h i s and
any other
2 proceedings , as the Supreme Court has
direc ted
us to
do.
3
In fact , as
you may
know, jus t
two
or th ree weeks
4
a f te r
the
decis ion
tha t
I
made,
the
Third
Circui t
made a
5 decis ion
in
a
case out of
the
Middle Dis t r i c t where the
judge
6
had
sealed the
- -
I th ink it s some of
the discovery
in the
7
case.
And
it ind ica ted
tha t
tha t should
be
pre t t y
much
on
8 the
same bas i s
tha t
t h i s Court
had found was not
appropr ia te .
9 So, we
don t
know
where we re
going to
end
up, but I
10 th ink
tha t
given a l l
of
the in te res t s which are involved in
11 t h i s case,
it
would be unfortunate to get
too agi ta ted
too
12
13
14
ear ly .
And
some of
t h i s can
be
saved
for
clos ing
sta tements
a t the
conclusion
of the case . So, t h i s i s
- -
we re going to
do
t h i s
and
I th ink
then tha t in
about 6
to
9
days, we l l
15 know,
a t
l e a s t a t t h i s
leve l ,
what
the
answer to these i ssues
16
and then we l l have
to
take it
from there .
17 I ll have an order issued today out l in ing these
18
proceedings .
You
know,
I th ink
it i s
a
f a i r
and
balanced way
19 and
in
no way i s
in tended
to ru le on what i s going to
happen
2
to anything in
t h i s matter .
21
MS
TROIANI: Your
Honor,
we
also have the i s sue
22 about whether
or not Hall
and
Applied Telematics apply.
23
THE
COURT:
Yes.
24
25
MS
TROIANI:
THE COURT:
Would
tha t
- -
That
should
be
brought
up.
That should
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3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
12
be
brought up.
I
t h ink
tha t t h a t s
why
I
gave you
the
oppor tuni ty to summarize tha t . I th ink tha t
the re
are two
over-a rching
i s sues here .
I th ink t ha t
may
be one.
And
I
th ink the re
i s
a l so
the
- -
t ha t
the re
i s
some
disc repancy as
to
the scope of the a t to rne y /c l i e n t
pr iv i l ege . And
I t h ink
tha t
a l so
should be f leshed out .
Those
are ,
you know
d i f f i c u l t
i s sues . And I t h ink they should be
f leshed
out .
And
I sa id f ive
pages
f rankly ,
you know
i f you need more -
I mean
you
know we shou ldn t
a r b i t r a r i l y
l imi t ,
you know
the wisdom tha t t h i s Court can
ge t . But
I t h ink brev i ty
would
be
he lp fu l , but i f
you need more than t ha t , t ha t i s
f ine . And
I th ink
the re i s
var ious
views
on
tha t
pa r t i c u l a r
i s sue .
I do
hope
t ha t we
r e l a t e
tha t
to
the
spec i f i c s
of
the case ,
as
opposed
to
some genera l discuss ion
of
the
soundness of tha t approach.
But
I th ink t ha t
t h a t s
something t ha t needs
to
be
addressed here . And
I
d i d n t want
to address
t h i s , f rankly , without an appropr ia te foundat ion.
And I t h ink t h a t s
what
t h i s
procedure
in tends
to
do.
Not
to
forec lose anyone from doing anything a t
the
r i gh t
t ime. But
i f
it
i s going
to
be
done it should
be
done
a f t e r , you
know
some
due
de l ibe ra t ion here .
And
I
apprec ia te
aga in
I
th ink
it s
d i f f i c u l t
fo r
the
lawyers here and
I th ink we re for tuna te
to have you
know
the two of
you
who are exper ienced
and have gone
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1 through these wars. And
tha t
wil l
serve the
in te res t s of
2 your
c l ien ts
and
the i n t e r e s t of jus t ice , hopeful ly. So
I
3 th ink a l i t t l e pat ience may
serve us a l l .
13
4
I t
may
sound
l ike
a
long time
I
know
to
l i t igan t s
5
when you re t a lk ing about
90
days.
But as
you know
6 l i t i g a t i o n moves
a t a
you know it
has
i t s own
pace. and
I
7
think under
the
circumstances of
t h i s
case th i s i s being
done
8
with
dispatch
as
much
as it i s feas ible
under
the
9 circumstances . So I ll
i ssue
t h i s order today.
10
Now
l e t me ask
you t h i s , un t i l
we
resolve these
11 i ssues ,
can
anything e lse
be
done or anything needs to be put
12
on
hold
un t i l you f l e sh t h i s out?
13
MS
TROIANI:
Your
Honor we bel ieve
tha t we
need to
14
f l e sh t h i s out f i r s t , because - -
and
we
had also requested in
15
our
l e t t e r tha t
you
extend the
time to
add addi t ional - -
16
THE COURT:
Okay
yes well we l l
address
those.
I
17 mean it seems to me
tha t
tha t wi l l fol low from
whatever
the
18 ru l ing i s
here
tha t
we l l have
to
adjus t that . But
I
d idn t
19
know whether
you were proposing to take any other depos i t ions
20
o r
whether
you
now
wanted
to get t h i s in
place before you
21 proceed.
Your
preference i s jus t to
wait
and see what
22
happens here .
23
MS
TROIANI:
Yes
your
Honor
we
have
some
24
subpoenas.
25
THE COURT:
Okay.
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14
1
MS. TROIANI: And we would expect tha t we
can, you
2 know for records and
th ings
l ike tha t , I m sure
we
can
3 THE
COURT:
Well, record discovery I don t see any
4
reason
why
tha t can t
proceed.
But
maybe
discovery
should
be
5
held
in abeyance. Mr.
O Connor, what
do you
think?
6 MR. O CONNOR: Well, I th ink I
have
no t rouble
7 with tha t , your
Honor.
8
THE COURT:
Okay.
9
MR.
O CONNOR: Unt i l you c la r i fy the playing f i e ld
10 here, I th ink t ha t s a wise decision.
11
THE COURT:
Okay,
f ine .
Okay, anything
e l se
then?
12
Okay,
we l l get
t h i s order
out today and hopeful ly, we
can
13
resolve t h i s
en t i re
matter in a 90-day cycle.
Thank you.
14
15
16
MS.
TROIANI:
Thank you,
your
Honor.
(Proceeding
adjourned
9:25 o c lock a.m.)
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CERTIFICATION
I hereby c e r t i f y t ha t the
fo rego ing i s
a
cor rec t
t r a ns c r ip t
from
the
e lec t ron ic
sound
record ing
o f the
proceedings in
t he ab ove en t i t led ma t t e r .
?_
~ / ~ _ 1 ~ ~ 1 ~
Gera ld ine
C. Laws CET
Laws
Transc r ip t ion Serv ice
Date
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