Experiences in My Second Year in Eckankar and the ECK Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp

22/4/1435 Thoughts on Excerpts for The ECK Dream 1 Discourses

The companion CD to The Eck Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp has the code

ENDR01CD upon is and includes 14 clips from talks by Harold Klemp. I will attempt to

offer some free thought about the Excerpts for the ECK Dream 1 Discourses by Harold

as I listened to it. So far that is at least three times. Would those who listened

to the CD be disapproving of my commentary? A lot of them would. Would those who

read my commentaries on some of the discourses or this CD be disappointed in the

content of the discourses or CD? It seems a number of them certainly would. I

wouldn't recommend the Eck study program to another, because of its risks spiritually

and mentally. Certainly I have seen people harmed both ways through Eckankar in this

life. Am I wrong? Is it worth it for you?

"The Universal Nature of Dreams, Part 1" from The Universal Nature of Dreams

Parts 1 and 2, 1989 ECK European Seminar, audiocassette #101391 & Chapter 11 of The

Dream Master, Mahanta Transcripts, Book 8, #011303 has the selection for the Welcome

letter. Eckankar refers to dreams as trips to heaven. Does Heaven change really

change as Harold Klemp says or do we change? Dreams may often have more relevance

than mere symbology, but I don't think this necessitates a belief that dreams are

always an imperfect memory of a soul in a spiritual dimension. It does seem true

that what we remember of the inner and outer life is real and important. I do not

think we need to explain all features of difference as carry-overs from past lives.

Can't God determine to test us by excess or lacking? I agree that dream are a

consciousness.

"A Great Love for God, Part 2" from A Great Love for God, Parts 1 and 2/An

Ordinary Day in the Life of Soul, 1991 ECK Worldwide Seminar, audiocassette #101531 &

Chapter 2 of What is Spiritual Freedom? Mahant Transcripts, Book 11, #011303 has the

selection Lesson 1 or Dreams-The Bridge to Heaven. Accepting one's self as a soul

and/or spirit is certainly a step. When we focus on or analyze our dreams; they may

become clearer as time goes on. Certainly the ability to find meaning and purpose

should improve. Dream time is shown to contain a recollection of the past. Dream

study may very well have even more importance than that. We should love God for the

little things in life. God does show love for creation in ways that go unnoticed.

One can say that Eckist do not actually work with their leader as a Dream Master.

What do they work with beyond their own projections? Is symbolism of dreams more of

something to get past or something to work on.

"The Dream Master, Part 1, " from The Dream Master, Parts 1 and 2, 1988 ECK

Worldwide Seminar, audiocassette #101321 & Chapter 1 of The Dream Master, Mahanta

Transcripts, Book 8, #011273 has the selection for lesson 2 or The Dream Master.

Mahanta mays Way-Shower. To an extent people only have the power we acknowledge and

allow them to have. A Living Eck Master or Mahanta can't actually work individually

on the inner with his disciples; much less any one else. No guru or so-called world

savior can do that. Harold Klemp speaks in this talk about the inner and outer

teachings providing a layout of the inner or spiritual realms. Is this just

projecting a format upon one's system of reality or consciousness.

"The Hundredth Monkey," from How the ECK Works Every Day/The Hundredth Monkey/Gas

of God? 1987 International Youth Conference, audiocassette # 101231 & Chapter 9 of

Unlocking the Puzzle Box, Mahanta Transcripts, Book 6, #011253 has the selection for

lesson 3 or The Ways of the Dream Master. The Formula Two technique here in is

saying HU (like Hugh or hue) once and breathing, than twice then breathing is like

the technique for the Planes by saying Hu (a non directed word for God) or one's

secret word the number of times of the plane and then breathing the same number of

times. That would mean one for the Physical Plane; two for the Astral Plane; three

for the Causal Plane; four for the Mental or Etheric Plane (top of Mental Plane);

five for the Soul Plane or Atma Lok; six for the Alakh Lok; seven for the Alaya Lok;

eight for the Hukikat Lok; nine for the Agam Lok; ten for the Anami Lok; eleven for

the Sugmad World; twelve for Sugmad; more for the planes beyond that for Akshar

realization of the many planes beyond that which are not realized. An important

thing with dreams may be to write down even the insignificant ones as soon as you

can. I would think it would be very beneficial to make a regular habit of recording

one's spiritual life. Doing spiritual exercises of some sort puts more of life in

that context. The Formula Two Technique certainly is a combination of focus on the

Physical and Astral Plane. One is deemed as dwelling on the level of ones initiation

instead of just visiting it through techniques such as this. Does anyone really

visit other realms by such techniques? Is it all senses, emotions, memories, the

intellect, and intuition that really performs the journey? Either way, we can learn

of a broader spectrum of life.

In the Spiritual Notebook by Paul Twitchell page 119 describes a descent of

meaning for the planes as The Ocean of Love and Mercy with planes above Sugmad or God

as a Noun. Isn't it a debasement of God's position to place It lower than any

reality? The Sugmad world must be like the Atzilut of the Qabalists and the Allahut

of the Sufis. This is the appropriate way we deem God as revealed in the original

scriptures by God's prophets (Paul Twitchell seemed to think prophets were lower than

Eck Masters, of which he considered himself the 971st, and discouraged thinking of

him as a prophet from what I can see.). Below God is the Nameless Plane,

Inaccessable Plane, the Highest State Soul Generally Reaches, the Endless World, the

Invisible World, the Dividing Plane, the Unconscious (the Etheric Plane), Kal

Niranjan (God of Time Without Fear is said to be the source of Orthodox or correctly

believing religions), the Plane of Negative Reality that Effects All Below, Turiya

Pad or the Source of Psychic Phenomenon and the Occult, and Pinda (the Plane of

Matter or everyday life in the scientifically verifiable world. Many faiths and

philosophies would deem the divisions as somewhat arbitrary as they can all be

considered to be where an individual is. The religious and not merely churchy can be

said to dwell in God or with God at the times where he is in The State of Absolute

Righteousness and even moments of failure may not take an individual from this

station. Do you see any reason to doubt that the first 4 or 5 of these are not

metaphysical at all? Some would say the physical, psychedelic, truly metaphysical

(unfallen angels or light beings and fire beings or fallen angels), and God are

present. Why should God be bound to the time-space-mater continuum?

"The Eternal Dreamer, Part 1," from The Eternal Dreamer, Parts 1 and 2, 1988 ECK

Creative Arts Festival, audiocassette #101301 & Chapter 11 of The Eternal Dreamer,

Mahanta Transcripts, Book 7, #011263 has the selection for lesson 4 or How to

Remember Your Dreams. People do sometimes burn out and fail, because they don't work

there way into matters. Some may not remember dreams well; at first. Some may not

be able to keep a diary well; at first. Sometimes the lessons or messages in a dream

or experience may not mean much to other people, but that is no reason not to make

notes. They may mean something later. Harold Klemp agrees with Al Mooslimeen in

this era about Friday being a special day to do things one may only do once a week.

The example he gives is witting in a dream journal.



Mahanta Transcripts, Book 7, #011263 has the selection for lesson 5 or Understanding

Our Dreams. Inner experiences may be strange or amazing, but Harold Klemp notices

change more than anything else. The dream world is interesting, but that doesn't

mean it is all beyond imagination. We should not inflate the experiences we have.

Harold Klemp often disorganizes speech and it becomes very hard to find out why

something is in a talk by a particular title. Does he makes light of this in order

to distract from the fact he make still have a schizophrenia category disorder.



Mahanta Transcripts, Book 7, #011263 has the selection for lesson 6 or How to

Interpret Your Dreams. Attitudes of dream characters may help one to identify who

you are dreaming about. Does a bad dream really mean others are out to get you? Do

others really intrude on your inner world? It seems true that we may be able to

handle more exposure to factors as we develop, though.

"Charlie and Moon," from It Matters to This Starfish/Charlie and Moon/The First

Year of the Shariyat, 1987 World Wide of ECK Seminar, audiocassette #101271 & Chapter

2 of The Eternal Dreamer, Mahanta Transcripts, Book 7, #011263 has the selection for

lesson 7 or Dreams in Our Daily Life. Eck in the context of this talk is God's

Speech through light and sound. The sound scheme for the realms according to current

Eckankar teaching goes outwards as Alayi (Upon/Power), Kala (Time), Mana (Mind), Baju

(Seed), Sugmad (God We Seek), Shanti (Peace), Hum (put forth), Aluk

(Ambassador/Invisible/Compounds [Aaloke means light in Saamskrita]), Huk (A breathing

haq means truth), Hu (It or The Pronoun). The goal is to listen and identify till

one can turn off the lower sounds till one hears the so-called sound behind all. Is

this really HU?

"A Larger Room," from Sunshine and Sparkle.The Right of Choice/A Larger Room,

1994 ECK Worldwide Seminar, audiocassette #101691 & Chapter 3 of The Secret of Love,

Mahanta Transcripts, Book 14, #011333 has the selection for lesson 8 or how We Learn

in the Dream State. Plans to go somewhere makes one wonder who is involved.

Initiations are supposed to be exposure to areas where you don't know something.

Harold Klemp talks about how Eck Masters and all human masters are not omniscient.

Wouldn't you also agree that it is also silly for such individuals to claim they have

power to control people who don't believe in or even know of? Wouldn't you agree

that even the best of people have more to accomplish in life before the death of the

body? Sometimes a person might learn something in a dream that they don't have

conscious recollection before hand. Sometime the circumstance around the dreamer

provides for the recollection to occur. I have also found it sometimes influences

the dream itself. The First Eck Initiation is said to usually come in the first year

of Eckankar membership when a person has committed to the ECK Study program. The

actuality is this happens when corporate sees someone has ordered the second year of

membership. The Eckist is usually a person that will perform spiritual exercises

without knowing the meaning of even the words involved. Is such blind repetition

really such a good idea? Harold Klemp is right about there always being another

step and different levels of consciousness; even if you don't believe there are Eck

Masters on other planes of existence.

"Lessons and Blessings," 2006 ECK Worldwide Seminar, audiocassette #102121, CD

#102131, DVD #202332 & The Master's Talks in The year of Giving-2006-7, #019074 has

the selection for lesson 9 or Our Dreams of Purpose. Spiritual practices before

sleeping can help even people with no belief in the afterlife with sleep disorders

get a good night's sleep. Harold Klemp explains unexplained pains with occurrences

in past lives. Sometimes this idea doesn't scare children. Sometimes dreams seem

more real than regular life. Family sharing in spiritual practice and experiences

can be very good for them. There may be a clear recollection of doing something or

being something in a dream that one has never been or done. Does itr make more sense

to deem this a past life or the imagination?

"The Dream of Life," from The Dream of Life/Lessons from the Master, 1988 ECK

European Seminar, audiocassette #101311 & Chapter 13 of The Eternal Dreamer, Mahanta

Transcripts, Book 7, #011263 has the selection for lesson 10 or Gifts of the Dream

Master. Dreams of the future may not be at all prophetic dreams. Muhammad the

Prophet taught that the prophetic dream is one of the parts of prophethood that will

remain with humans after he dies. Sometimes a dream has a lesson like not fighting

the inevitable or not letting anything bother you that doesn't need to. What seems

prophetic may very well be another insight into one's self or life. Does Harold

Klemp really expect people to seriously think he is controlling everyone's dreams?

The tools to deal with dreams and experiences in Eckankar are not unique to that

group, as far as I can tell, unless you mean something very specific.

"Dreamland: Have It Your Way, Part 1," from Dreamland: Have It Your Way, Parts 1

and 2, 1989 ECK Springtime Seminar, audiocassette #101341 & Chapter 6 of The Dream

Master, Mahanta Transcripts, Book 8, #011273 has the selection for lesson 11 or

Looking at Our Past. Do people really make appointments to meet up in non physical

planes? Is the truth behind "Souls has no past or future," be that we are to live in

the present? I think using creativity to figure out the dream as it goes along

sounds a lot like lucid dreaming. Is Harold Klemp pretending when he claims to

remember what people write him claiming to forget about? It sure seems like he went

out of his way to invent an experience around one of his main interests-the Old West.

"The Road to Spiritual Freedom," 2002 ECK Worldwide Seminar, audiocassette

#102021, DVD #202252 has the selection for lesson 12 or Dream Travel to Soul Travel.

The distinction between dream and soul travel seems arbitrary. If soul god out when

we sleep, we may be aware of it at times. If a dream is like being awake, it may

just mean we are more conscious of it. Sometimes we may remember a experience where

our own nature or reactions will be found on others and we should identify that when

it occurs.

"The Universal Nature of Dreams, Part 2," from The Universal Nature of Dreams,

Parts 1 and 2, 1989 ECK European Seminar, audiocassette #101391 & Chapter 12 of The

Dream Master, Mahanta transcripts, Book 8, #011273 has the selection for the What's

Next? letter. Spiritual goals may very well have material value. Dreams and

creative imagination is best used and may be bestowed on us for the purpose of

connecting to God-to whom all returns.

Baraka Bashad (May the Blessings be)!

24/4/1435 Introduction and Welcome to The Eck Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp

Page ii has the label that is so often a part of Eckankar books by Harold Klemp

and implied for the other books by him or before August 7th, 1983 by Darwin Gross or

Paul Twitchell. That is to say like "authored and published under the supervision of

the Mahanta, the Living Eck Master, Sri Harold Klemp. They are the word of ECK." It

seems that, as far as we know from what we have, that the prophets and messengers of

God did not consider all their words after gaining the prophet hood to be God's

revealed word or even completely inspiration. That is why the prophetic figures of

old identified what teachings were quotes and which were authoritative explanations

of metaphysical or religious matters. There personal character may have been to be

submissive to God's will, but the personal tastes and styles were largely not an

explicit part of their own teachings. Is the highest conscious being is a mahanta?

What do you think of a leader claiming to only write and speak quoting divine spirit

or God as a Verb?

Introduction:

Page vii of The Eck Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp says that Harold Klemp is

the Dream Master. Could this be part of the same delusions of grandeur he mentions

being questioned about during a psychiatric hospital stay for a condition like

paranoid schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder brought on by his heavy drinking

and poor eating at the time and when younger? He still admits in Spiritual Wisdom on

Healing to bouts of it or a somatic form of schizophrenia from eating mistakes and

being overwhelmed by over exposure to certain elements in his surroundings.

The new format of the Eck discourses is to make the books twice as big with

workbook pages and to have a CD with it. It seems to be like having a members only

Eck Satsang class; even when none is available for the discourse on is on. Few areas

with Eckankar centers would have one going for each of the discourse series that the

local members are one. One of the two leaders for the Eck Writers/Journaling

Meetings said he was currently doing four at a time. A brief review of this second

of a series of seventeen is showing that the workbook pages are no more profound than

you'd expect the eighteen years old or older individuals who are reading them to come

up with. I would most strongly agree that making some record of one's spiritual life

and developing an awareness of one's experience in that context is a good idea.

Welcome:

Is Harold Klemp a true friend of those who have to pay to be a member of his

group or those who worship him at all? Is dreams the most interesting study? I

believe it is for some. Does he really start off this discourses series explaining

the true nature of dreams? I would agree that the spiritual exercises are the best

part of the discourses, when they are appropriate. Eckankar seems not to focus on

them being for devotion or out of love of God as much as to witness sights and sounds

in a spiritual way. Are any of them revealed especially from God? I'll let you make

your own decision regarding that as you read what I share. The first page is right

about both being a newcomer on a spiritual path being as a new spiritual life and

that the holy can cleanse what remains of your previous existence. Is the message

about the secret rhythm and mentions of the discourses being of God to cause people

to feel privileged and thereby imbibing it with a status? Is that a reality?

The third page calls to make a note of that drew attention and the emotional

reaction to the Welcome letter. I have shared the former and latter can be guessed

by the mixed reaction.

The fourth page ask to visualize whomever the Mahanta of Eckankar is opening the

gateway to the inner worlds. I don't believe in all that, but I can visualize just

about any material thing. Bouncing a reflection or something into my peripheral

vision when I watch a show is one thing, but I'd rather picture myself opening the

way to my own inner worlds. I've watched too many movies and shows to not picture

the gateways as not in some way like for a mansion or a technological device. On the

other side for me is like my own private musing and alterations of what is on the

outside. Is that what the gate and inside is like for you too?

The Eck Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp, page 5 has the third workbook exercise

for the Welcome letter. How is any human the Inner Master? I can't see myself

treating a Living Eck Master as the voice inside my head who controls me. Would that

scare you too? I have and will ask God to find out even one item to improve with my

spiritual practices, though. My studies and interactions with other continue to

provide me with next steps at times. Often it is just personal reactions that cause

me to sense what I should do next.

The next page calls one to imagine a baptism in spirit-Baphomet as you will.

Many faiths call for an introductory washing that is also spiritual. Here the

imagining of being bathed in God's presence as water is called for. September 23,

2000 C.E. is When I became Jaefar Saaee An Bak Ntjr Wae. That and my formal

confession of faith at the Jumah before Ramadan were such experiences. It was as if

I was being washed of the old by Heaven in a way even before those first born-again

baths taken later by myself; which were also special in feeling. The change in my

life I notice was as if something was lifted. I can do practices of the presence of

God and that the shekinah/light beings/holy spirits are witnesses with or without

light visualizations and find a comfort beyond mere escape. I guess that is more

than one difference that has brought me closer to God and knowing death is closer.

Page 7 has the fifth Welcome workbook exercise. I again won't pray to anyone who

would call themselves Mahanta for a personal spiritual exercise. One reason is I

have my own ways. Another is I only feel comfortable praying to God for ways to

express my personal understandings. I want my ways inline with God's. I'll focus on

my obligations and what is recommended. Voluntary practices will surely come in

time; within boundaries.


23/5/1435 Pleasant Review of Your Day Today & The ECK Dream 1 Discourses by Harold

Klemp Lesson 1

Before this discourse started on page x has a photo of Harold Klemp half

grinning. The caption makes it unmistakable that he is whom he refers to as The

Mahanta, the Living ECK Master. Don't be mistaken as to whom is being mentioned when

these terms come up, until he dies and is replaced by another.

Lesson 1 of The ECK Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp is called, "Dreams-The

Bridge to Heaven." The illustration on page 8 is of a woman shielding her eyes from

the sun atop a mountain. She is not to well protected from the elements, even though

snow is in the background, but she tries to see onward.

The next page has the caption to the drawing. It is about starting a journey to

one's innermost self that isn't started. I thought that is what they claimed was

being started by joining, if not looking into Eckankar.

Eckankar claims to center on love. Love of what? What kind of love? The claim

for the Eck Dream 1 Discourses and Stranger by the River by Paul Twitchell has the

same claim attributed to it here. The first quote from that book that is said to

have recorded occurrences near the Jhellum River that runs through Srinagar of

Kashmir mentions a love that destroys all else being compared to freedom. The second

quote of this book said to be interactions with a space alien that took on the form

and culture of a Tibetan mentions a love that starts in the heart and get developed.

This is said to sprout into freedom and truth. Love is referred to as the center and

start of spiritual growth. Al Qoor'aan 2.165 mentions a love for God that is greater

than the love of all others being linked to realization of the truth and doing

otherwise stifling freedom. Al Qoor'aan 3.31 asks one to love and follow the prophet

of the age, if we truly love God and want forgiveness. The next verse calls for an

obedience to God and the messenger prophet to earn divine love too.

Eckankar here calls people to follow a program as well, but in order to gain an

understanding of dreams which is really an understanding of self. Al Qoor'aan 13.11

and other passages refer to a change that comes from the inside being what happens

before God changing a condition. Harold Klemp on page 111 agrees with this philosophy

in a way, but speaks in terms of dreaming into reality rather than the way intention

is mentioned by the prophet of this age; Muhammad. It may be important to question

as Al Qoor'aan 52.32 says, "Is it their dreams that dictate their behavior or are

they naturally wicked?" At least Eckankar attempts to put things in a spiritual

context. Does that rather than religious context from a man who went to Lutheran

ministry school makes the mention of growth and Eck sound selfish or elitist to you

too? Eck here is spoken of as either an angle, angels, or God as a Verb. People

mean different things by Holy Spirit other than Gabriel or Jibreel or Vohu Manu of

the monotheist faiths.

In Eckankar dreams are thought of as direct manifestations of God as sound and

light. Usually this is merely psychedelic phenomenon produced by the brain and body.

It doesn't take much experience to realize there is more than sights and sounds in

dreams. The Eck Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp are said to focus on the creative

side of dreams and dream interpretation. The implication is clear that Harold Klemp

admits that many psychologist would not give the response that Al Qoor'aan 12.44 has

when it says, "They said, 'Nonsense Dreams. When it comes to the interpretation of

dreams, we are not knowledgeable." Eckankar wants to provoke an interest in dreams

where individuals develop a broad interest and personalized system of interpretation

of dreams. How does this compare to the teaching of interpretation of dreams that

God provided for Yousuf in The Two Lands now called Egypt mentioned in Al Qoor'aan

12.21? this another way by which that prophet was taught by experience? Is the

teaching of people like Harold Klemp about people always being the best to interpret

their dreams part of their separation from orthodox (correctly believing).religion,

psychiatry, and psychology? The goal of Eckankar on page twelve is to surpass mere

wisdom and attain God-consciousness. Much in the way of parinirvana found in Buddhi

Yoga; Al Qoor'aan 2.0-3 starts in God's name with a mystery and calls the God-

conscious to Al Qoor'aan, Contact Prayers, and to give alms.

Eckankar spiritual exercises are typically easy ones and are prescribed as at

least daily for members. Whether you call it a Spiritual Eye or emotions, mind, and

intuition; dreams and visions involves different parts of you and that is what

translates the experience even when it involves metaphysical elements. I would

wholeheartedly agree with the statement that souls have more than physical

experiences, but disagree on the idea that they are always reworked into what we can

handle. I am fine with gaps in my understanding and don't believe in changing an

account when it is not readily understood. Eckankar speaks of a dream censor as a

function rather than a being. Sometimes suppression of memory is intentional; on

some level. I believe God does not give us more than we can bear or withstand

temptation from, but the idea that it scrambles messages when they are too strong

seems refuted by modern brain science. One function of dreams is they help us

remember. Another function of dreams, from the scientific point of view, is to

reorganize and work out what we were involved with during the day. Therefore the

seeming abstraction or fragmentation of dreams can very well be explained by our

working out what we encountered during the day in another way than we may typically

do. All this combined with the findings on living cells making records of the light

and sound they encounter explains the astral library or spiritual records sort of

experiences people have; at least partially. Anyone who has been troubled with a

recurring dream and had it go away or change upon interpretation of its symbols may

know that The Eck Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp page 14 does make a valid point

about being forced into making an interpretation.

Are the Heavens according to Eckankar reality? Eckankar teachings refer to Paul

the founder of Christianity his vague statements on heaven as a hallmark of

Christian ignorance of spiritual realms. Paul does seem to refer to something he and

his followers has an obscured viewpoint of that will be made clear someday. Did Paul

Twitchell, Darwin Gross, and Harold Klemp provide an actual look into divine

cosmology? Dreams and visions are often either of the unknown and can be

contradictory to what we have been taught in church or temple. Is the Ocean of Love

and Mercy described as The Worlds of Eck-God-Sugmad actually projections upon the

psychedelic structure of consciousness?

The Story of Alexandra Costa called Stepping Down from the Star is mentioned on

page 15 through 18. She became loyal to the Americans in 1970. She was a well

educated upper class woman in Russia. She and her husband were ordered to try to get

Russian documents published. She was amazed to find out how different it was in the

U.S.A. than what her government told her. The stories had a grain of truth, but they

were not the general conditions. There were so many conveniences! A trip home to

the Soviet Union left them feeling like they had little in common with their

countrymen. They went back to the States and found sympathy in the other Russian

immigrants. Eckankar involvement is said to be a similar culture shock of no return

to many. The government of the U.S.A. helped her family adjust after they formally

defected. Alexandra Costa still ran short of provisions one period and began to

doubt her abandonment of the familiar. She was soon provided for and prevention of a

repeat of that sort of situation was established.

Sometimes what we adapt to is not needed for survival or even coping. The old

system of actions looses its strength as a new system is adapted. This sometimes has

to be done slowly in order to not leave people lacking what they left behind. The

new system should ultimately replace every truth or value with equal or better

eventually, if it has the whole truth. I have found this true for Islam throughout

the ages. Al Qoor'aan 2.106 does not speak of Quran being made obsolete, but of

locally relevant revelations being forgot or otherwise replaced by the directions for

living in this international age. In as much as all the verses no two verses can be

followed Quranic abrogation is an unnecessary belief that was picked up during the

crusade period. the other way of translating the passage as forgotten verses can't

apply to a book compiled hundreds of times over hundreds of years with exactly the

same verses in to the letter in each dialect they were written. Even Al Qoor'aan was

gradually learned in its specific order by Prophet Muhammad as is mentioned in Al

Qoor'aan 25.32. This occurred from 610-633 of the Common Era. During this time

Muhammad received other revelation and was inspired to explain the Sunatullah or

God's Way of this age in terms that did not place man as superior over woman, nor one

race as superior to another, nor people of one land as superior to another, except in

terms of how conscious and righteous they chose to be. Some societies were changed

quicker and some individuals underwent paradigm shifts slower.

Page 18-19 of The Eck Dream Discourses by Harold Klemp mentions a story as a

supposed example of "the dream censor" obscuring a "spiritual message" almost to the

point of losing its "truth." A woman dreamt of a lost boy looking for his parents in

a many roomed building. He was turned into a mosaic after disappearing where another

woman pointed him. The dreamer turned this paper image into a kite with pictures of

a number of other children attached. She flew it near happy children by the ocean.

Harold Klemp is what religious studies professors used to call a savage

philosopher. Such an individual believes that when we dream of those we know that we

are actually directly interacting with them. The dreamer had a nephew taking Bible

classes before taking a confirmation at the church where the other woman was a

curator. Allegedly she saved him from Christianity which is called a paper image and

a dead faith with a dead master by many. Eckankar was founded by a former Radhasoami

member; Paul Twitchell. That form of Sikhism teaches that with a dead master nothing

works as you need a living master in physical body. Can't spiritual practices work

with a direct connection to God whether or not you have a sworn leader available?

The ocean was interpreted as God's presence. Diabolos is the Devil as separate from

God. One may not be God or part of God, but you can't escape the presence of the

Omnipresent. one can only live like God is only elsewhere. Page 18 and 19 seem to

contradict the earlier mention of the dream censor as not being a being by calling it

a negative thing that wants to hide a connection to God.

The Spiritual Exercise of the First Month of The Eck Dream 1 Discourses:

One starts by saying HU (like Hugh or hue) for a few minutes. Then one

undertakes a pleasing review of one's day for the up to twenty minutes as you go to

sleep; working back to the start of one's waking hours.

My first performance of this rite was the night following sunset on Thursday, the

6th of February, 2014. I continued with it nightly till my final performance of it

between 10:38 P.M. on Wednesday the 19th and 5:07 A.M. on Thursday the 20th of March,

2014 or the 4th -11th hour of the night 19/5/1435. My results are as follows: My

memories became vividly visual. I could see frames of documentaries, pages of books,

and other scenes like they were happening afresh. i don't know how else to explain

it, but they became like water I was pouring from plain clay jugs into a river that

ran through a barren landscape. When they were empty, I turned around and saw a six

pointed turquoise star with thirty-two rays going forth it, bot not extending far

from it. These streaks of light formed a somewhat even circle. On the side of the

top point were five streaks each. On the sections on each side of the bottom point

were five streaks each. On the sections on each side of the bottom point were four

points. On the left side was six points and on the right was eight streaks. I was

curious about this unevenness, but I remember nothing as to the answer of if their

was one. There was a rainbow of light that went into me, but not in the order you'd

expect. From bottom to crown were the layers of green, pink, orange, blue, purple,

yellow, and white.

I was warbled into a scene one may think is comical, but it was one of

seriousness and contentment after the rushing and washing feelings that came with the

lights faded. I saw myself with a horse head on a stick, like a child's toy, but

real and not rotten. I rode it as a child would through a modern city or cities;

crossing over bridges. I took these different coins that were like the Goetia sigils

69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 1, and 2. All were on equal size and were large enough to mostly

fill my palm. I stopped seven times to hand over a coin. The first was silver. The

second was tin. The third was copper. The fourth was iron. The fifth and sixth

were gold. The seventh was copper. I finally came to a place where I placed the

horse head on a stick into the ground.

There was a white winged horse there that shone like lightning. I mounted it

without a saddle. It took me through the dark of the heavens till I saw six sapphire

constellations in the way as if there were a band around me of the Shem Ha-Maphorash

sigilli #69-72 and 1-2.

I plummeted into a place where three seas met to swim with a giant creature much

like a mollusk without a shell and a lung fish. I felt a heady euphoria with a warm

powerful quickening, despite utter calm and hypersensitivity. The seas were each of

a different color. I felt like each had a different approach. I saw Pluto, a mostly

dark waning moon, and then the sun appear in the sky above. Two of the waters were

almost the same, but the dark one was hardly like the next two I saw at all.

Surly, if there was an official Eckankar Tarot, The Blue Star of Eck would be its

Star card. The rainbow was their colors for the Physical Plane, Astral Plane, Causal

Plane, Mental Plane, Etheric Plane, Soul Plane, and higher five or so Planes. Where

does the second scene lay between Defeat and Happiness? It may not be the Five of

Swords, but it seems to be like a Nine of Cups that contains elements of it. Where

does the third scene lay between Science and Satiety? It may not be the Six of

Swords, but it does seems to be like a Ten of cups that contains elements of it.

Where does the fourth scene lay between Futility and Love? It may not be a Seven of

Swords, but it does seem to be a Two of cups that has elements of it.

The feelings of the fourth scene and the fact that the waters are three makes me

think of the Iranian Haoma and the Hindu Soma. The colors of the waters make me

think of the decanates of Aquarius as Venus, Mercury, and Mercury. The stellar

bodies were another view of the decanates of Aquarius as Pluto, Moon, and Sun. The

moon was at the current stage of the lunar cycle of the experience; which was the

nineteenth. The combination was a reminder not to stay confined to one view of a

system. Each system of interpretation has its particular laws or ways to follow that

may face consequences for not following the ways of the place I'm at.

The animal that ruled each of the three later scenes seems to be the

constellations which are the decanates of Aquarius. The second scene was a defeat or

a goal to defeat what is represented by the Goetia sigilia for the period of

Aquarius; numbers 69-72, 73 is connected with Halahel, and 1-2. I was happy with the

process and am comfortable casting blame when I am without that sin and sure of guilt

of the blamed. The dumping is to be grateful of the past and move on,

Dreams, soul travel, astral travel, and the like are to be a science of

aspiration as are the Shem Ha-Maphorash sigilli.are symbols of aspiration and

identity with the processes or individuals. In the case of the third scene that is

being overjoyed at realization of the Aquarian principles.

In the first scene, the blue star is as the thirty-third and final stage in

enlightenment. Its rainbow is as a clarity through all my being and which I am to

operate in. This means to be a reminder of God as manifesting in accord with Its

laws.

Workbook Activities:

. The first workbook activity asks three questions. I answer the first by saying

I found the concept of searching out the answers in what is present of special

interest to me. My heart was opened by making connections to what was not in the

discourse; as most who read this paper alone should be able to figure out to a

degree. When I day dream of myself a year ahead of time, I see finished projects and

a greater understanding. I treasure experience of consciousness and piety over other

riches. I reread and edit papers often enough that I may review this in a year as

suggested.

The second workbook activity is on page 22 and asks one to take a few minutes of

one's pre sleep schedule for spiritual practices. I would rather make an agreement

with myself about what I intend to gain with dream work and ask God for help with

this as i do not believe any Mahanta or human master can really be party to inner or

prayer agreements.

Page 23 or the third workbook activity asks one to relate to Alexandra Costa's

story. I can relate to the new view of ways I really knew nothing about, abandonment

of the old ways & friends, and help along the new way parts of the Stepping Down from

the Star story. I would recommend to take it easy and not go through the change

alone to a friend looking to change for the better.

Page 24 has one look at how one would act in the dream of the dreamer. I

personally might accept the decision of the youth as they probably reached the age of

accountability and stop trying to control other people. I might appreciate the

beauty of someone practicing even a fragmented spiritual path.

Page 25 has a drawing of a bridge with a six pointed star, Eckankar style, at the

end. The fifth workbook activity there was answered as I shared what I learned and

how to apply it in former explanations.

The next page invites to record the pleasant recalls. The page after that finds

my telling that I don't see any real change in my dreams since I started with this

month's spiritual exercise on February 6th of 2014. I do feel more and more like I

will remember something curious rather than shocking like my last major dream recall.


26/5/1435 The Dream Master Technique and The Eck Dream 1 Discourses Lesson 2

Before The Eck Dream 1 Discourses Lesson one starts is a close up of the center

and center left of a painting of Harold Klemp. Is Harold Klemp God's agent as the

caption calls you to?

Lesson 2: The Dream Master

As if one didn't already know such beliefs were part of Eckankar, This discourse

proclaims that Harold Klemp or whoever heads Eckankar is the Dream Master, the

Mahanta (Way-shower), and the Inner Master. If you dream about someone, are they

really there? Is it different for any of the spiritual leaders that call themselves

Godman? Perhaps they are saying that the spectral evidence of witch trials the world

over is not only valid, but something a governing body should punish for like

physical offenses. How can multiple beings have omniscience, or omnipotence, or

omnipresence? How does page 31 of The Eck Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp speak

truth in this even for The Agent of God who is fully submissive in thought, word, and

deed to God at that moment? Harold Klemp contradicts all three of these in his

public talks, public works, and private works. He has said many a time to the effect

of, "Don't expect me to prove any of these to you; even if you are a High Initiate."

It is even contradicted by the implication in "he can be with all chelas (spiritual

students) at the same time."

Dream help is said to be available in the Eck-Vidya or Ancient Science of

prophecy that is not as reliable in detail or accuracy as one would expect from a

science or a revelation. I must agree with the idea of accepting guidance or

mentoring to understand dreams or gain spiritual attainment. I have taken this from

many others; both human and metaphysical, just as long as it's Islamic.

There may be protocol to the places we visit even in a dream or vision in the

waking state. There may very well be nightmares and other unpleasant situations that

arise from even ignorance of such. That is why it is important to gain some detailed

when practicing inner plane projection, astral projection, lucid dreaming, or soul

travel. It may be best to not be vague and speculative when working on projections

upon the structure of consciousness. Thought or dream work can help us to learn

lessons we don't have to relearn in our outer lives. Can we really be taught books

of the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad (Way of the Eternal;The Eckankar Bible) without being

exposed to it and somehow accepting the leader of Eckankar as more than a corporate

head, but an Outer Master. Most would think the warnings and advice in dreams and

psychedelic visions are from ourselves or from some being more holy than one who

would inhabit a physical body. I would agree with page 32 about not only Harold

Klemp being two-faced, but Paul Twitchell and Darwin Gross (The First and Second

historical Eck Masters). I would humbly disagree as to how, but agree that there is

a "power of love." How else can God be described as Most Loving in both Al Qoor'aan

and some of the world's bibles, if there was no power of its manifestation? After

all, from the Greek word dunamis or power over comes Dhunami; which is the title

befor the subtitle of The Ancient Science of Divine Contentment; which is a spin off

from the Ancient Teachings of the Masters; an Eckankar spin off founded by Darwin

Gross after he was voted out of leadership in 1983.

Repeating true names of God, action in God's name, and passionate love of others

are ways you'd likely agree are for attaining purity of heart; whether or not Rebazar

Tarzs ever existed physically or metaphysically. You might disagree with the concept

of a God who only gives to those who live some for other creations; unless you think

this is impossible to never do. Even the worst beings got something right; It seems.

Eckankar may not fully agree with Islam about their being no Evil God in conflict

with The One and Only God, but they do not believe in any fully negative creation,

either.

One Eckankar member worked for a medical company where conversation on religion

was frequent. The born-again Christians wanted to save every soul there. The

Eckankar member denounced the belief in death and listed karma and reincarnation in

its place. How is calling death translation making it not a death? The Eckist

(Eckankar Initiate) explained about what seemed like a novel faith to some of her co-

workers and even gave out information to some. This caused the Christians to form a

prayer group to pray for her. One Christian later showed off her new car with a

Bible on display showing what the faith had provided. Had it really? Do physical

things really make one happy in themselves? I would agree with Harold Klemp on page

34 about their being more important things to a religion that what it can get you

materially. The proselytizing was getting annoying, but there is an implied justice

in that the woman's car turned out to be more problems than it was worth.

By then Eckankar material was being listened to or read by co-workers. People

seemed to remember more spiritual (psychedelic) experiences. The Eckist shared

several copies of the Eckankar Journal with her co-workers. A fellow employee

thought a recent dream was her chance to provoke the Eckist's salvation. Her dream

seemed more real and detailed than any previous dream. She dreamt that she visited

the Eckist's home with a Bible to find a woman long trapped in a cage with EK upon

it. She thought it was the Greek word ek or the preposition meaning out of, from,

from among, without, far from, since, immediately after, on the part of because of,

or inconsequence of. The Christian didn't know what it meant. So, it was explained

as meaning Holy Spirit, spiritual, God as a Verb, or some other Eckankar usage. In

the dream there was a distraction from noisy children outside. The dreamer lined

them against a wall to pray from them till they were quiet. The dreamer went back in

the home for Bible retrieval; only to have it disintegrate. In the dream the Eckist

tried to help put it back together again, but it was too fragmented.

The dream was interpreted an psychic invasion of the Eckist's space and that the

woman was actually the dreamer trapped in her own consciousness. The EK symbol was

drawn later and said to resemble the dream symbol. The Christian most assuredly saw

it on the Eckankar material that was being shared. She probably rightly interpreted

the dream the first time as a conviction that the Eckist was sort of imprisoned by

Eckankar. The person in the dream thought to be the husband of the Eckist looked

like pictures of Harold Klemp that are in many of the material available from

Eckankar; even on the cover. The interpretation the dreamer got from another was

probably right in that she wanted to control people who she thought were enjoying

themselves in childish way through interest in Eckankar. The Eckist told her, "If

you don't stop praying for me, I'll turn this matter over to the mahanta, the Living

Eck Master." The Christian woman probably deemed it a threat and later was heard in

her prayer group telling them not to pray for others without their permission. I

would think page 37 is wrong about the Christian finding agreement with the Eckankar

doctrine of "the spiritual principle of noninterference." It would seem she likely

though this was a threat to have what she probably deemed a psychic vampire or black

magician and the threat was not to be tested. Do people thus have the power to

invade dreams of others without their permission like Harold Klemp claims to have

done here? If true, how is that not a violation of a spiritual law too?

Dream study should be connected to taking guidance within and from others. A

desire to understand them as involving one's outer life is also essential. You'll

have to judge for yourself about the third principle here in the third step of the

staircase in workbook activity number 6 of this lesson. I don't deem it coherent or

a nondestructive belief.. Dream work should be part of an effort of gaining in

consciousness. Spiritual exercises or practices can be of great help to any personal

or group psychological practice. I would say that religious actions are more

important than study of religious books. I would also agree in the implication on

page 38 about revealed or inspired books being the best ones. I would, however,

think that spiritual practices are more about enforcing beliefs and holding on to

knowledge than taking on new information. There is the experience of it in different

circumstances, though.

There are a lot of book that seem to have a diluted content of value and the Eck

Books seem more and more to be no different. Are there not wish-fulfillment dreams

that are better left ignored as Muhammad and the other prophets of God taught? Is

Harold Klemp right when he teaches that dreams should always be an important part of

decision making? Dream analysis is better when more complete. Are all dreams of

spiritual value beyond that as page 39 teaches?

I have received warnings in the form of dreams that came true; at least in a way.

Are we really less likely to understand when the warnings show in regular life? That

hasn't been my experience. The pareidolia or apophenia that is inherent in Golden-

Tongued Wisdom is often missed and the only way left to divine the missed message

seems to be through dreams. Is it God as a verb or Eck who is giving us Eck-Vidya,

these ways? Harold Klemp claimed to have dreamt in a nap that a friend being locked

out of his car related to his job at a printing company before he was fired. Was it

Harold's misunderstanding or his employer's that could have got him fired had he not

phoned that evening to correct it? I forget whether it was Paul Twitchell or Darwin

Gross that was being called the Dream Master by Harold Klemp at this point. Wouldn't

it be much easier to only worship God as a Noun or Sugmad directly? Why should it be

only for the head of religious corporations and other organizations to be directly

accountable to God? God may know us better than ourselves, but doesn't that mean

something is seriously wrong with us, if any other gendered being does too?

Shouldn't we be able to interpret our own experiences without creations being

intermediaries?

The Dream Master Technique:

I have no desire to picture Harold Klemp or any past or future Eck Master as I go

to sleep or pray. Picturing him as I say HU like hue and imagining myself flying

through the picture seems not right for a spiritual practice. I understand why

people would use Tarot cards like hieroglyphic or other diagrams instead of images of

figures they worship like this. I would side with Al Qoor'aan 5.105 in saying Harold

Klemp is wrong on page 40 when he says, "Do not worry, because Soul cannot suffer

injury of any kind." That verse teaches to take care of our souls, because harm will

not come to a soul when it is in the right. This makes clear that those who believe

in Al Qoor'aan do distinguish between the fate of the body and that of its operator.

Almost all spiritual paths have our identity as the operator of the mind and body.

The Eckist is supposed to believe whomever Eckankar calls the Mahanta, the Living Eck

Master, the Dream Master on the other side to hand you a woven basket to put the

day's negativity in. I imagine, I'd place manure in it. After all Harold Klemp in

The Wind of Change shared that shoveling manure prepared him for leadership in

Eckankar. Page 41 says to repeat this singing HU (like Hugh) while visualizing

flying through a picture of Harold Klemp to meet him on the other side to put your

problems into a basket, which is then washed in an Eck Current which is like a stream

by a sandy beach up to thrice.

A story is related about a person who imagined herself putting a bad movie, bad

thoughts, the bad behavior of others, and recreational drug use into the basket.

This Eckankar initiate dreamt about being commanded by Eckankar's Living Eck Master

to take it to a colorful stream where the contents were changed to love. She asked

if she could sleep without taking any of it with her, but her dream answered that it

was gone. Is dream travel or remembering it really the first stage in God's Kingdom

as he says? I have thought for many years that all creation is God's Kingdom.


Page 42 has the first workbook activity. I don't deem him anyone's inner master,

but I figure if he had a special gift to me it would be like gold dust in a

concentration within a rock that would be of the same use as goldstone. The things

called "Special Gifts from the Mahanta" are either mass produced parts of the inner

and outer Eck Works, the apophenia called the golden tongued wisdom, or things God

has provided you throughout life. I won't imagine Harold Klemp handing me this

discourse and reading it to me. Eck Works are like goldstone, if its glitter were

gold. The gold in the Eck (of Eckankar in this context) Works is what it has gleaned

of religion as it survived in the spiritual paths it incorporates and that which one

has not escaped through the natures of things. Eckankar is like a goldstone in as

much as one looks at it from different angles and appreciates the beauty it contains

within the substance the is structure that is around it.

Page 43 calls one to reflect saying HU after listening to track #3 of Excerpts

for the Eck Dream 1.Discourses. I'm not going to daydream about a man or attribute

my dreams to him. Why would I pray to him asking to be reminded of what he gave me?

Page 44 of The Eck Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp calls to wonder how claims

of him being the Inner Master and Outer Master as the Mahanta, the Living Eck Master

releases love's power. How is he an inner master to anyone but himself? How is he

an outer master to anyone who doesn't submit to his command or control? He shows a

way, alright. What way though? Is it the way of a true spiritual master or God's

authorized liege lord? For me it opens an aversion to accepting anything from

Eckankar as reliable for its own sake.

My experience of the Islamic version of the practices mentioned on page 45 with

activity 4 has been shared in how I related singing attributes of God as Singular

(Allah) like a lullaby to whom I call the Princess of Cups; How everything seems

better dedicating it to All Divinity (Allahumma); and how loving God most & even the

creation who does what I don't like action or traits of brings a peace that wasn't

otherwise there.

Avoiding bad karma in the form of unnecessary hardships is what one asks about in

exercise 5 on page 46. Noninterference is about freedom and I would never take it to

the indifferent place Eckankar teaches to take it.

To answer the staircase of work book activity 6 on page 47: I will go up it by

saying as much as God is the ultimate guide; I also am my own inner guide. My outer

guide can be said to be the prophet of the age; Muhammad Ibn `Abdullah. The second

step up has been of special help in entering my dream worlds in terms of

understanding and openness to experience, because my desire to understand the

connection between dreams and outer life is of psycho-spiritual importance. God may

be in control of experience of light and sound, but God is not really one with

creation. Isn't Harold Klemp by that step really saying he is God as a Verb? I

don't believe he is holy or an angel either. Longing for a higher states of

consciousness is also an affirmation or goal that helps with dreams in one's world

view. The fifth step below the Six Pointed Star is doing the Spiritual Exercises of

Eck as far as they don't conflict with orthodoxy or orthopraxy, for me.

The seventh workbook exercise includes drawing a picture of one's self doing the

Dream Master Technique on page 49. I won't make graven images, but I can just

imagine myself in bed trying to keep balance by at least momentarily letting go of

problems by expressing what they are. The next page asks to write the general

experiences and insights of dreams particularly around this practice. Being open to

dreaming and waking visions has been a secondary nature for a while; for me. I will

say that thinking about a vague dream and hoping for clarity seems to make a clarity

of detailed experience more likely.

28/6/1435 Formula Two Technique and the Eck Dream 1 Discourses Lesson 3

Lesson 3: The Ways of the Dream Master

The fifteenth month's discourse in Eckankar is proceeded of page 52 of The Eck

Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp by an illustration of a Pegasus on its hind legs

and possibly at the edge of a cliff as a symbol. This is presented as a symbol of

spiritual flight, but can't their literally be beings we may take soul travel upon as

some beings can be used for physical travel?

Eckankar professes to draw both the curious and the lonely on page 53. What does

joining any path do to us? Is it the means by which God cleanses our innermost being

and outwards? Does life take on new meaning through being on a new path. What good

is it to accept a mediator by declaring such as a Mahanta as a Dream Master. Why

should it be necessary to accept a Living Eck Master into this role? Do we have to

have others point out how profound what we have gained by changing our lives is or

will we know all on our own? Sometimes we do need reminded how insightful dream

study can be.

Eckankar is a bit for the ethnocentric American, if you think the inordinate

focus on American history as guidance for the whole world that was allegedly

specifically engineered by so-called Eck Masters and other Eck Adepts. On to page 54

is the story of Abraham Lincoln's recurring dream during the Civil war of 1861-1865

C.E. before major battles, he'd dream of a warship approaching a darkened shore.

Abraham Lincoln always realized how important these battles were. It was a civil war

and he would have known he was going to receive messengers of war and face important

battles frequently enough. The dreams may have had no actual outcome on the Civil

War. Any psychology student would tell you that dreams include reworking of what is

thought about during the day. If karma means action, that is truly a continuance or

working out of it in the dream state. Then one could say dreams are a way of working

out karma, but few would think that a Mahanta, Living Eck Master, is the Dream Master

of anyone or otherwise the doer of these things.

Al Qoor'aan 3.13 hints at a different story of a vision of battle that actually

influenced the outcome and still encourages visionaries. It was not only of what

became victory, but it was not for a side with mixed intentions for going to war.

In Al Qoor'aan 3.30, One finds mention of the good and evil deeds going with you.

Eckankar would refer to the debts as sunspots upon a soul. I would agree with the

idea that a true spiritual teacher's job is to show how to undo the mistakes of life.

The next verse of Al Qoor'aan mentions following God's messenger of the age as a sign

of love of God and a way to God's forgiveness and mercy.

Eckankar agrees with that in some way. Why do we have to be visited in dreams by

alleged Sat Gurus (the ture ones who bring out of darkness into the light)? How can

any creation travel through all time and space in dreams? Wouldn't this be like

Zurvan of the Ancient Persians or some other concept of god beyond time and space?

People may have dreamt about whomever leads Eckankar (always American, thus far) or a

Rebazar Tarzs who is said to physically be in Afghanistan, but that doesn't mean they

were taught by anything but their memory or concept of them.

The section called "How the Master Removes Karma" says that problems arise when

the work is only internal without outer spiritual study and practice. As true as

that may be, isn't it the student's own hero deeds that get the work done regardless

of any perceived help from a creation? Is page 55 of The Eck Dream 1 Discourses by

Harold Klemp may be correct about a spiritual battle taking place with entities that

form bonds between their negative presence and people. The difference is that it

would seem that battle in our being is entirely ours and no one can do it for us.

The church (This is from kirk; which is the Scottish word for hero shrine.) belief in

actions of others counting for us by merely accepting or acknowledging them as true

seems to be overthrown by the fact that certain personal feats always seem to be

required too. There are always beliefs and practices that will help to some degree

in any spiritual path. The question is how much? Can't the results be more in first

hand experiences than being wholly accepted as unknown?

The personally responsibility for one's deeds is a valid purpose of Eckankar

listed on page 56 of The Eck Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp. This is a truth of

both more and less true spiritual paths. You cannot avoid karma in the old sense and

moralizing the concept has serious theological issues, though. The religious person

or even the secularist who allows himself a judgement would believe or even find out

that it makes a difference what one does things in the name of. Al Qoor'aan 6.136

makes a good point about those who offer to false gods (Eck as Holy Spirit and

Mahanta as Embodiment in the case of Eckankar) and end up giving of what would have

been dedicated to God were they not to do things in the name of partners. If Sugmad

is God as a Noun and Eck is God as a Verb, thus doing things in the name of God is a

sound practice. There is more to being liberated through your joy in a spiritual

life, but that is a basic.

When one dreams that you are flying over a family member's vehicle with a chosen

spiritual master; it doesn't mean that is how you saved your family member from a car

wreck a year later; no matter what you thought to do in the dream. If the Intuitive

Soul, called nasamah in `Arabee, is much larger than the human body, or somehow

shared, or connected with others, then there may be truth in people feeling the

presence of those not there, though.

Revealed religion teaches against any being tested beyond what one can succeed at

or atone for wrong; at the very least. Page 58 of The Eck Dream 1 Discourses by

Harold Klemp sides with this dogma on divine will only allowing what can cause

progress, if we so choose.

Another dreamer had dreams of different roads that Harold Klemp teaches mean life

before being a member if the Eckankar corporation, the first two years (before

attaining the second initiation), and afterwards. In this context being trapped on a

washed out road makes sense as loosing touch with one's old religious system. The

damaged, but present road can mean the difficulty of Eckankar, even after being in

the First Circle or initiation. What is the real reason for the increased difficulty

or maintained difficulty of life in Eckankar members? Blaming it on being ready to

deal with difficulty from alleged past lives seems to give members meaning to the

sufferings in life. The dream of smooth driving underwater makes sense as being

fully immersed in a spiritual path after a further commitment to it. In Islam, that

may be said to be learning and becoming adapted to maintaining the practices. In

this dream, one may say that that person is no longer resisting Eckankar, but is

unconscious of the true reality of it.

Dreams full of emotions and feelings are said to be of the Astral Plane. Whether

or not this is an actual separate realm from the Physical Plane, these aspects of

dreams and visions can be very important to look at. Other than being told such by

Eckankar works and members, there is no reason that can connect to a belief that the

Living Eck Master weaves anyone's dreams, visions, or ordinary life. Page 59 of The

Eck Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp does speak truth about insights into ourselves

being opportunities to break cycles of action.

Another story is told of someone who dreamt about visiting the Eckankar Spiritual

Center on the Spiritual Campus of Chanhassen, Minnesota. Harold Klemp calls it the

Astral Plane, because he denies the very same loss of size and bulk that he describes

in earlier works and admits is caused by mistakes in eating that he knows of ahead of

time. How can health problems of one's own choosing with prior knowledge of what one

can't get away be the actions of a Mahanta, if such is supposed to be the most

conscious person on Earth? In the dream vitality returned to Harold Klemp as he was

there in the Spiritual Services department. Was this the dreamer realizing that

Harold Klemp is "small, insignificant, and weak." or is page 60 of The Eck Dream 1

Discourses correct in saying that is how the dreamer saw himself?

Psychedelic experiences like the dreams most remember can give way to

metaphysical experiences. Our inner life can include and transcend our regular life

and it is important to pay attention and even study what we experience. Dream Travel

and Soul Travel are not always the same as lucid dreaming. The level of control one

has over the visionary experience is not the distinguishing factor. What is, then?

Other than personal interpretation and saying one feels real or realer than regular

life is the difference in other Eckankar works.

Can the beings we see in our dreams be actual instead of symbolic of things?

Eckankar seems to say yes when it is their particular mythological constructs, but

implies that things like Pegasus, the winged horse of Greek mythology, is but a

symbol of soul on page 60 of The Eck Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp.

A story of someone else's dream follows. This person dreamt he was on a walk and

saw himself pursued by the angry. The account makes him seem naive to actually need

an inner voice to provoke running away. Pegasus showed up and he escaped to enjoy

the view more from above. They were hurled and shot at whenever they approached the

ground. So they took flight again. To me this represents the sort of detachment of

the worldly and spiritual that is fundamental to even not Christian churches and

Manichaeism. In the dream, Pegasus shot forth gold light to return their weapons

upon them. This reminds me of stories of Thor's eight-legged steed Sleipnir, but the

symbolism is the sort of curses return upon the sender talk or the returning of karma

upon those who wish ill upon the members of Eckankar. Is opposition to Eckankar

really opposed by any spiritual forces, except the souls of members? The dreamer

awoke with the lyrics to You Are the Wind Beneath My Wings by Jeff Silbar and Larry

Henley stuck in his head. Isn't it better to think that this is overindulgence in

entertainment music rather than thinking this refers to Eck supporting his soul? If

Eck is God as a Verb, wouldn't all light be God's? What them would Eck be if we say

some are protected by the Light of Eck? The hostility of others is not the dark

forces of our own barriers of consciousness, but this makes sense coming from a

diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic like Harold Klemp. The dream may be about

overcoming, but the idea that escaping and having something else fight our battles

seems the opposite of being fearless. God may create and allow light and sound, but

I would hardly consider compulsively remembering a song one has heard before as a

special manifestation of Music of God. Prophets like Muhammad, Moses, Zoroaster, and

the other Sent Ones heard the sound of God in that fashion.

The discourse seems to be engineering dreams upon leaving the body through the

crown of the head and riding winged horses. A story of a woman who had a Soul Travel

experience in that way in on page 62 of The Eck Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp.

She rode to a sandbar and entered a cave with violin music like tinkling bells. Paul

Twitchell said these were the sounds of the eighth (7th, if the Etheric Plane is

thought of as the higher part of the Mental Plane.) and second plane. Under Harold

Klemp's rule of Eckankar that is the seventh (This is the eighth when the Etheric

Plane is counted as a separate plane than the Mental Plane) and third plane. She

watched an orchestra there and was hypnotized. Being spellbound by frivolity is

considered to be heavenly to some, but the entrapments of the inner affect of the

devils by others.

Is a dream about floating on a cloud more spiritual or more a chemical reaction

in the brain that brings peace and cloudy phosphenes? He saw his life as a jungle

below the mountain he imagined to separate himself from his ordinary life and attain

a detached view of it. Shouldn't spirituality be an embrace of life rather than an

escape? He dreamt of Harold Klemp granting him license to ascend as much as he

wanted. He did as told and found it more and more difficult to have inner balance.

Is Harold Klemp right on page 63 of The Eck Dream 1 Discourses in saying he was going

where he needed more and more self-discipline? Could it really mean that advancement

in Eckankar as a believer is to be more and more detached from reality as he had less

connection to matter? Galatians (H Pros Galatas Epistolh Pauloy) 6.8 would agree

with Harold Klemp on this one. I don't think any of the monotheist prophets would

have agreed, though.

Does the material world distract us from spiritual matters. The truly religious

and not merely churchly would tell us it doesn't have to. Al Qoor'aan 3.14 affirms

that the worldly things are supposed to be attractive, but the spiritual abode is far

superior to the lower worlds. Harold Klemp sort of agrees as it being the means to

the ends, but fails to see how both can be blended in the way the ancients used to

hold as a religious ideal.

Upon that point is the final story of lesson 3: The Ways of The Dream Master.

One woman dreamt before joining Eckankar that she had a home on the inner planes and

was taking a friend to see it. Apparently the inner worlds of Eckankar are a

Collective Unconscious that we all share, but this reaks of a degree of universalism

that seems a bit xenophobic at times. They admired the nice homes and grounds along

the way and turned down an invitation from a pleasing woman resting on a balcony, but

they continued till they were at her inner home. There can be merit to sticking to

one's path despite perceived alluring qualities outside it. She was bathed in white

light there. Eckankar does white light and other techniques light visualization.

Does the Golden Dawn have its origins in Eckankar or does Eckankar have Golden Dawn

roots? Eckankar works have mentione the Golden Dawn. This dream is interpreted as

being her home in Eckankar on Page 63 of the Eck Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp.

Formula 2:

Harold Klemp's The Spiritual Exercises of Eck:Your Doorway to Wisdom, Freedom,

and Love shares the Formula Technique as Spiritual Exercise #15 or Chapter 2, Number

9. This is alternate breathing the number of times for the desired plane and say HU

(like hue, Hugh) the same number of times. The Soul Plane is given 5 instead of six.

The spiritual exercise for year 2, month three in Eckankar is given on page 64 of

The Eck Dream Discourses by Harold Klemp upon these lines. The variation listed is

to pay attention to our crown and picture white light shining on the head there. One

then one alternates singing HU twice and breathing deeply twice for five to ten

minutes as one drops off to sleep. One is to intend to continue this spiritual

practice while sleeping. People are told that they will begin having normal seeming

dreams from the Astral Realm with practice of this. The same claim is for waking or

sleeping practices of other Formula Techniques. True metaphysics does not work like

that. One can't honestly interpret one's self in one otherworldly realm or another

based on what you were meditating on prior. One can have psychedelic experiences

that are around specific projections in such a manner. These experiences can be

lucid and engineered, but the transcendent or ultimately holy is beyond our mental

constructs, I wouldn't recommend the part listed here where one pictures whomever

heads Eckankar as a method of filling up with love.

I have been seeing myself going through a moving yellow layer as I've went to

sleep doing this since 7/6/1435 or April 6-7, 2014.

My last performance of Formula 2 was between 5:35 and 8:27 A.M. P.S.T. on Monday

the 28th of April 2014: I visualized my crown bathed in white light until I warbled

through an electric yellow layer. This time, I recalled what came next clearly. I

spent a while following a crawdad pushing a silver sphere through the water and a

scarab beetle pushing a gold sphere through a landscape of complementary colors. The

colors that are called flashing colors did not include yellows and purples. The Shem

Ha-Maphorash sigilia for the period of Pisces or #3-8 went past us in the dark skies

above. These symbols were all pf a light yellow. After the last sigillum was

focused on in the sky, the silver sphere shed twenty-eight green drops into the water

and shot eighteen red drops into the sky. The silver and gold spheres were pushed

together by the scarab and the crawfish.

Beyond that was a very large airplane hanger shaped building like pink sapphire.

I went into six large rooms full of curious things in there. I had to use a key card

with one of the Goetia sigilia for the period of Pisces to get into each room. With

sigillum number three, I entered into a room with a wide variety of oracular devices,

With the fourth sigillum, I entered into a room with pyres, coffins, and other things

to treat dead bodies or place with them. With sigillum number five, I entered into a

room with medical equipment and machines. With the sixth sigillum, I entered into a

room with tools of entry and of stealth. With sigillum number seven, I saw treaties

and ways to start of end conflicts. I entered into a room with may precious and

intricate things with the eighth sigillum. Where the card with a tin colored seal on

it, or the one with a silver colored symbol on it, or the one with a mercury colored

sign on it, or the one with a copper seal upon it, or the one with an aluminum symbol

on it, or the one with a bronze seal upon it, there were things I didn't understand,

but they were in the category of the others.

The more ordinary sort of dreaming was when I left to find a lizard with bands

around a woman chained to a tree. A man who I deemed to be the father stood aloft

while the person I thought to be the mother boasted about the little nothings the

woman did. I awoke continuing with the saying HU twice and deeply breathing twice.

I thought to contact someone to reestablish contact with her as I think I was asked

about it in the dream.

Although I could not see the people clearly, I knew them to be decanates of

Pisces as Lacerta or The Bands & Lizard and Cepheus or the King of Ethiopia as the

first; his daughter Andromeda, the Princess as the second decanate; and Cassiopeia,

the Queen of Ethiopia as the third. Second Peter 2.4 and other places put the bands

as of death and the chains as of hell. The lizard survives hardship and will

sacrifice of its own body to save itself. We too should give up materially; if

needed to save the soul. The mother represents the distractions from the psychic

impulses of true spirituality. The princess represents the friend that moves with

those that hold her from the message of the mind or reason. The father represents an

eccentric in her life that she thinks of abstractly. He has to be willing to

separate from mediation for her, if it supports problematic addictions.

It may be good to remind the Princess of Cups about the message of the tarot

trump XVIII or The Moon. In my Astrological Eckankar Tarot, I call it, "Polarity or

Opposites." The first part of the dream is of that theme. The lack of yellows and

purples is to say that the sense of opposites in the higher realms is not the same

sense as in the lower worlds. The joining of the silver and gold spheres is uniting

the negative and the positive in righteousness. This unity is a key to the Kingdom

of Heaven in this life and hereafter. The crayfish means to scavenge my deepest

being to feed myself, but the pink sapphire warns to guard emotions with love and

wisdom. I must open to forgive and accept. The eighteen red drops above the number

of the trump tarot card and the twenty-eight green ones below are the lunar day of

the month. Today is 28/6/1435 Al Hijra. The ages of 18,19,28 and 29 were defining

ones and of crucial goals in my relationship with the Princess of Cups. The scarab

beetle is as the continued creativity upon metaphysical issues. The scarab and the

freshwater lobster and the worked together was the metaphysical or unseen spiritual

reality staying in touch having a physical connections. The signs above were the

aspirations along the way. The signs on the cards are reminders to repent of the

evils and ignorance along the way.

The decans of Pisces as Moon, Saturn, and Jupiter can be stated as, "The soul

is the unconscious reality to live our bodily or material life in accord with for

success." Also it may be said as, "Our associations, organization, and idealism are

all to be for this purpose which one only sees in semblances astrally." The decans

of Pisces as Uranus, Mercury, and Neptune can be said as, "I am to independently

express the knowledge for divinity of my dream life and visions."


Workbook Activity 2.3.1 is on page 64. That is to tell you my favorite sentence

from my favorite passage (I see it speaking different truths than the discourse

lists.) or passage from the discourse at the moment is when page 60 says, "The

Experience was telling him not to put himself down before anyone, not even the Living

Eck Master." The next page calls me to look at special meaning, but I won't credit

the Mahanta for my insight. To me it is good advice that no matter what one thinks

of any creation, it is not fitting to debase one's self before them. I would like to

remember dreams from the Astral Realm; Whatever that means.

Page 66 has the next Workbook Activity. I won't ever pray to any Mahanta or Way-

Shower, but I can tell you I have had transformations much like Harold Klemp's The

Spiritual Exercises of Eck:Your Doorway to Wisdom, Freedom, and Love #47 or 4.11

Bypassing the Mind describes. I have repeatedly been fascinated by study of

metaphysical understandings like upon the spirit-soul and its parts. In Egyptian

Mythology contains reference to how when one becomes an Akh/Ax or Shining One/Flower

of Heaven for accepting and submitting to God as Hu or Authority (Pronounced as a

breathy hoo). The spiritual practice listed in #47 includes to chant Hu-Akh like

huuuach with the ch like Loch or buch to remove blockages in practice. What I find

is a problem in what he says in The Spiritual Exercises of Eck on page 107 with "The

word given during an ECK intitiation is a name of God from a specific plane" is that

he mentions his name and titles being given out in intitiations. Yet, he has said

many times in regard to the Eck Masters, "Give them/him respect, but not worship."

Workbook Activity 2.3.3 asks me to choose what dream story leads to the most help

for me. I would have said the sixth; as I have been thinking of the issue of the

emergence and response to secular life and its attempted immergence by turning it

into sacred life. For me, such would mean I have to be braver and gain ability to

confront my problems on my own as much as is fitting. Also I would say that I can't

give in so much to popular aversions. Another dream that would be interesting is the

one of a connection reminded of the year after.

The next Workbook activity is on page 68 and is idolatrous. If page 55 and 56 of

The Eck Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp makes clear a problems arise when only

inner work is made; despite the Mahanta's alleged connections with initiates. If we

have to do the work of picturing "unnecessary karma" being removed by the one

currently called Mahanta, why not skip the reliance on intercessors and credit

ourselves? I can't say how it feels, since I won't pretend that continuances of

action are being stopped by any spiritual master. As a key for liberation a quote

from page 60 can be attached to a broader lesson of experiencing only what one can

benefit by through one's choices. It says, "Every inner experience is important;

otherwise it would not happen."

Page 69's Workbook Activity has me answering, "I am dealing with a challenge in

my life." Even if it kills me, in my soul, I will transcend it. Daydreaming can

provide distractions, but thinking I'm flying above it just make me think of death.

By illness or persecution, I am fine with dying, but would like to focus on what I

can do to preserver and benefit myself and others in this life. The implication of

"fly on the wings of Soul" just as strongly implies that you are not the soul as much

as saying you have a soul. The monotheist traditions tend to have from a prophet

mention of the innermost self as being beyond the living operator of the body.

Workbook Activity 2.2.6 is on page 70. Singing Hu, I remembered how my

Shadhdhuliya name of Raheem or Compassionate was given to me by Shaykhm Muhammad al-

Jamal ar-Rifa`i ash-shadhuli. No Living Eck Master will ever show me "a godlike

quality" I'm gaining right now. I would like to think that I am improving in

kindness and compassion, but God is not like any in creation. We only understand and

Experiences in My Second Year in Eckankar and the ECK Dream 1 Discourses by Harold Klemp

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