Episode 222: Why ButcherBox Is Bringing Back Grass-Fed Meat … · 2019-01-14 · quality....

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Episode222:WhyButcherBoxIsBringingBack

Grass-FedMeatWithMikeSalguero


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Child:WelcometomyMommy’spodcast.

ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubyFabletics.Thisismygo-tobrandforathleticwearthatislonglasting,supercomfyandfunctionalbutalsocuteenoughtowearanywhere.Idiscoveredthisbrand,cofoundedbyKateHudson,whenlookingforcuteworkoutclothesandnowI’maregularcustomer!Theirpiecesareallsupercutebutalsocomfortableandflattering.I’vealwayshadalovehaterelationshipwithworkoutwearuntilnow…becausewhileIlovetheideaofyogapantsandcomfybrasIneverlovedthepricesonthepremiumbrandslikeLululemonandhadn’tfoundotheroptionsthatwereaffordablebutstillcomfy,flatteringandhighquality.Fableticsismysolution.Theyareafashionfocusedactivewearbrandanditsmissionistoempowerwomenbymakingahealthy,activelifestylechoicesbecauseofitsexceptionalpricepoint.Theycarrygymwearsuitableforanytypeofworkout…andcuteenoughforthenormaleveryworkoutofbeingamom!FableticsISyourone-stopshopforaffordablegymwearandbecausetheycreatealloftheirdesignsin-house,youwon’tfindthemanywhereelse.Ifyou’venevertriedFabletics,Ihighlyrecommendstartingattheircollectionspagesoyoucanseeallthetrendingpieces.Theyalsoreleasebrandnewstyles,collectionsandprintseverymonth!BeforeIforget,Fableticsisofferingyouanincredibledealyoudon’twanttomiss:Get2leggingsforonly$24($99value)whenyousignupforaVIP.Justgotofabletics.com/wellnessmamatotakeadvantageofthisdealnow.Alsofreeshippingonordersover$49.Internationalshippingisavailableandthereisabsolutelynocommitmentwhenyoupurchaseyourfirstorder.

ThisepisodeissponsoredbyJustThriveprobiotics.IfoundthiscompanywhensearchingforthemostresearchbackedandeffectiveprobioticavailableandIwasblownawayatthedifferenceintheirproducts!Theyoffertwocornerstoneproductsthatarebothclinicallystudiedandhighlyeffective.Thefirstistheirprobiotic,whichhasbeenstudiedtohelpwithleakygutandtosurviveupto1,000timesasmuchasotherprobioticsorthebeneficialorganismsinsomethinglikeGreekyogurtforinstance.Thedifferenceis,theirspore-basedstrainsworkcompletelydifferentlythanothertypesofprobiotics.Theirprobioticisvegan,dairyfree,histaminefree,non-GMO,andismadewithoutsoy,dairy,sugar,salt,corn,treenutsorgluten—soit’ssafeforpracticallyeveryone…Ievensprinkleitinmykidsfoodandbakeitintoproductsbecauseitcansurviveatupto400degrees!TheirprobioticcontainsapatentedstraincalledBacillusIndicusHU36®,whichproducesantioxidantsinthedigestivesystem–wheretheycanbeeasilyabsorbedbybody.TheirotherproductisaK2-7,andthisisanutrientyoumayhaveheardof.Itiisknownasthe“ActivatorX,”thesuper-nutrientthatWestonA.Price—adentistknownprimarilyforhistheoriesontherelationshipbetweennutrition,goodhealth,bonedevelopmentandoralhealth.Hefoundthisprevalentinfoodsinthehealthiestcommunitiesintheworld.TheirK2istheonlypharmaceuticalgrade,all-naturalsupplementwithpublishedsafetystudies.Liketheprobiotic,itisalso,gluten,dairy,soy,nutandGMOfree.BotharebesttakenwithfoodsoIkeepbothonthetable.Hereisatip,too.Mydadhastroublerememberingtotakesupplementssohetapedthemtothepeppershaker,whichheusesdaily,andthey’renowonhisdailylistaswell.Checkthemoutatthriveprobiotic.com/wellnessmamaandusethecodewellnessmama15tosave15%!Katie:Helloandwelcometo,"TheWellnessMamaPodcast."I'mKatiefromwellnessmama.comandI'mheretodaywithMikeSalguerowhoistheCEOandFounderofButcherBox.You'veprobablyheardmetalkaboutit,butifyouhaven'tit'sthefirstdeliveryservicededicatedtoprovidingcompletelynaturalgrass-fedbeef,organicchicken,andHeritageporktoconsumers.It'ssomethingourfamilyhasusedforareallylongtime.And


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we'lltalkaboutittodaybuttheideacamewhenMike'swifewaspregnantwiththeirfirstchildandtheywantedtoeatthehealthiestmeatpossiblebuthadtroublefindingcompletelygrass-fedbeef.

Andso,ofcourse,theysolvedtheirownproblemandfixedtheirownneedandIlovethatthere'sevenanechoofmyownstoryandmyownjourneybeganalsowhenIwaspregnantwithmyfirstchild.SoIcannotwaittointroduceyouguystoMike.SoMike,welcomeandthanksforbeinghere.

Mike:Thankssomuchforhavingme.

Katie:SoI'dlovetohear,tostartoffthatstoryalittlebitmoreindetailofhowyou,whenyourwifewaspregnant,realizedthiswassomethingthatyouguysneededtofocusonandthenhowyouwentfromthattostartingacompany,tosolvetheproblem.

Mike:Yeah,sure.Soalittlebitofthebackground,soIwasactuallyrunningadifferentcompanyatthetime,itwascalledcustommade.com,whichwasamarketplacethatconnectedmakers,sopeoplethatmakejewelryandfurniturewithconsumers.Andmywifewaspregnantandwestarted…shestartedlike,shehasHashimoto'ssoshehasathyroidconditionwhichisa...andsoshehastolimitinflammation.Andshereallystartedlikereadinguponlimitinginflammationandhowtodothatbest,etc.Andsowewerebothworkinghardtocleanupourdietandtomakesurethatshe'sonlyeatingthebeststuffpossible,youknow,onceyouarepregnantorhavechildrenkindofthosedecisionsarealoteasierbecausethere'slikesomethingelsethatyou'renourishingandfeeding.

Andeverybookthatweread…therewaskindofthepaleodietor…thatwasreallytheonethatwefocusedon.Itwaseatgrass-fedbeef.Andwecouldn'tfindit,sowewenttoourlocalgrocerystore,IliveinBoston,so,youknow,wehavecitygrocerystoresandtheremightbeabrickofgrass-fedgroundbeefbutthatwasprettymuchit.AndIalsodidn'treallyknowalltheterminologyandInoticedlikeonelabelsaidgrass-fedandthenitsaidgrain-finished.IwaslikeIdidn'tunderstandanyofthat.SoIjuststartedgettingreallygeekyaboutlike,"Huh,howdowegetreallygreatgrass-fedbeef."AndthatledmetoafarmerinNewYorkwhoIwaspurchasingwhattheycallacowsharefarm.SoI'dgetlikeatrashbagortwotrashbagsfullofmeatandit's,youknow,theywouldslaughteronecowandbasicallyspreaditoutamongstabunchofpeople.

AndthefirsttimethatIdidthatIdidn'thaveenoughroomforitinmyfreezer,IlivedinasmallapartmentinBoston,andsoIgaveoutsomeouttomyfriends.Andthensixmonthslaterweboughtmoreandsixmonthslaterweboughtalot,andallofasuddenwejustreallygotintothisgrass-fedthing.AndthenthelasttimethatIhadgivenoutgrass-fedbeeftomyfriends,oneofthemwas,like,"Thiswouldbesomuchbetterifitisdeliveredtomyhouse."Iwaslike,"Oh,yeah.That'dbegreat."SoIstartedtryingtodigintothatandfigurethatoutandendedupmeetingaformerexecutivefromOmahaSteakswho,youknow,OmahaSteaksislikeahugedirecttoconsumermeatcompany,beefcompany,andhewasabletoopenhisdoorsandsolvesomepieceswhichgotusgoing.


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WestartedwithaKickstartercampaign,thiswasstartedaslikeaverymodestlike,youknow,we'rejustgonnagetsomethingupandmaybeafewhundredpeoplewouldbeinterestedinthis.Wedidn'traiseanymoneybecauseIwantedtomakesurethatwecouldmakethedecisionswewantedtointermsofthefarmsandthepeopleweworkwith.Andwejustgotgoing.Andsoit'ssocrazyliketheday,soitwasSeptember,welaunchedlikeSeptember8th,2015.Theweekofourlaunch,"ConsumerReports"cameoutwithacoverstorythatwas,"Thecaseforgrass-fed."And,youknow,itwasjustkindoflikethisawakening,thislargerawakening,peopleinthiscountrysaying,"Ishouldbeeatinggrass-fed."

Andsoourtimingwasrightintermsoftheproductbutalsoweweresolvingthisneedwhichislikealotofpeopleawakenedtowantinggrass-fedbutthentheygototheirlocalgrocerystoreandcan'tfindit.Ortheywanttoeatmorehumanelyraisedanimals,ortheywanttoeatantibioticandhormonefreeanimalsandtheydon'tknowhowtoreadlabels,andit'sactuallyhardtofindthisproduct.Andwhatweseenow,sowe'renationwide,youknow,fast-forwardthreeyearswe'renationwide.Wecontinuetojustworkongettingyouaboxofmeatasquicklyandasefficientlyandascost-effectivelyaspossible.Andwe…youknow,whatwe'velearned,we'velearnedatonaboutthemeatindustrywhichIcangointoasmuchasyouwantto.We'vealsolearnedjusthowimportantgreatqualitymeatis.And,youknow,I'mnowafatherofthree.

Mywifegotpregnantagain.Wefoundoutat22weeksthatwewerehavingtwins,whichiscrazy,andwe…youknow,themealissoimportanttomeandmyfamilyandcookingand,youknow,sharinginthisgreatmeat.Andit'sjustsocooltobeabletobringthattosomanyotherpeopleacrossthiscountry.It'sjustbeenanamazingrideand,youknow,Ithinkit'sraretofindbusinessesthataregreatforyou,greatfortheenvironment,youknow,kindofwe'rehittingalotofdifferenttouchpoints.Itfeelsverymission-focusedandthat'sareallygreatreasontogetoutofbed.Andtrytomakethisareally,youknow,impactfulcompanyandareallyimpactfulthingintheworld.

Katie:Yeah,absolutely.AndIgowithyourwife'ssentiment,IalsohaveHashimotosoIknowverywellaboutkeepinginflammationlowandthehealthdifferencesbetweengrass-fedandconventionalbeef.ButI'mgladyoubroughtupthemeatindustrybecauseIfeellikethere'sstillsomuchconfusionevenamongreallyeducatedconsumersaboutthesetermswithinthemeatindustrybecauseyouhearnaturalandorganicandgrass-fedand,ofcourse,weallarealittlebitfamiliarwithfeedlotsandhowawfulthoseare.Butcanyouwalkusthroughjustsomeofthetermsassociatedwiththemeatindustry?

Mike:Sure.Yeah,solabelsareveryconfusingandIthinkoneofthethingsforyourlisteners,orwhatItellmyfriendsis,justkeepinmindthatlabelsaredesignedtoconfuseyouinsomeways.Sothey'regonnamarketthethingsthatarelikealittlebitbetterandkindof…youknow,soit'sjustlikeshoppingatthegrocerystoreforanything.Youneedtoreadyouringredientsandunderstandandbeinformed.Soallnaturaldoesn'tmeananything,soallnatural.Generally,whenyouseeallnaturalyou'llseeanasteriskanditsays,"Minimallyprocessed."Youcangetallnaturalonyourproductwithno…likeyoudon'tactuallyneedtoproveanything.


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Whatyou'rereallylookingforintermsofantibioticsandhormonesisantibioticandhormonefree,andnevereverisevenbetter,soneverantibioticsornevereverantibioticsandhormones.Soinbeefantibioticsandhormonescanbeputinpork,antibioticscanbeputinchicken,antibioticscanbeputinaswell.Antibioticsstartedinthe'50sanditactuallywasawayofgettingthemtoputonweighttogainalotofweight.Sotherearetheseprofessorsinthe'50sand'60swhoweretryingtofigureoutwaystogetchickenstogrowbigger,faster,andtheyfoundbyadministeringanantibiotictheyputonweightincrediblyfast.Andnotonlydidtheyputonweightbuttheyactuallyconvertedfeedbetter.

Andsowhathappenedintheindustrywastwothings,one,everyonewasobsessedwithcheapmeat,right.Sotheconsumerwasn'treallyworriedaboutwhereitcamefrom,itwasworriedaboutthepriceofmeat.Andtwo,becausealltheseanimalswerehavingantibioticstheywereabletobeputcloserandclosertogether.Sowhatendeduphappeningwasthefeedlotortheconfinedfeedingoperationsstartedpoppingupbecausepeoplewereabletoputalotofanimalsonthesameamountofspacewhereasbeforethatwasn'treallywhattheydidbecauseofsicknessesandwhatnot.

Sothat'skindoftheantibioticsandhormones.Asfarasgrass-fedgoes,sowhatyou'relookingforis100%grass-fed.What'sreallyinterestingandIthink,youknow,atravestyiswhat'shappeninginthiscountryrightnowispeopleareinnovatingaroundfeedlottingcow'sgrass.SoIalsosaytolookforpasture-raised.IbelievepastureraisedisgoingtobeifyouaskmethreeyearsfromnowIthinkallthelabelsthataretruepasture-raisedwillsaypasture-raisedinsteadof100%grass-fedbecauseIthinkthecustomers...there'sgonnabeabacklash.But,yeah,didyouknow,youreallywantnotonly100%grass-fedbutpasture-raisedorraisedonpastures.

Generally,intermsofhumanestandards,ifyoucareabouthumanestandards,sothere'sGAPwhichisGlobalAnimalPartnership.YoucanfindthatatWholeFoodsandalsoinalotofotherplaces,it'safive-stepthingtheyhavealotofinformationonline,but,youknow,stepthree,stepfour,andstepfiveareIwouldsaywheremostpeoplewanttobeiftheycareabouthumanestandards.There'salsoanorganizationcalled"CertifiedHumane"whichwillgoinandcertifyhumane.

Thirdparty,whathappensthereisthere'sathird-partyaudit,sotheygointothefarmandtheymakesureconditionsaregood,theyshowuppossiblyunannouncedtomakesureconditionsaregoodandthey'rekindofliketheeyesandtheearsfortheanimaltomakesurethatit'sbeingtreatedwell.SoIpersonally,allofourstuffishumanecertifiedandthat'sreallyimportanttomeandthemeatIeatbut,soifpeopleareinterestedinthat,that'swherethatis.Andthen,sothere'slikethegrass-fedgrain-finished.Iseelessandlessofthatnow,butsometimesit'llsaygrass-fedandgrain-finished,whichatbestlikejustatraditionalcow.That's,youknow,howthey'reraisednormally.

SojustalittlebitofinformationandI'lltrytobequick.Thewaythatgrass-fedbeefworksis...soeverycowstartsouttheexactsameway,whichiscow-calf,meaningthecowisbornandthenitfeedsfromitsmotherforthefirstsixmonths.Andthenthenextyearit'sbasicallyeverycowisexactlythesameaswell,itjusteatsgrassoutonthefield.Now,somethataregivenantibioticsweregivenantibioticsreallyearlyintheirlife.The


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onesthatarenevereverdidn'tgetanantibioticbutotherwise,they'reessentiallythesamelivingconditions.Atthelastsixmonths,that'swherethingschange.

Sothecowis18monthsoldandthen98%ofthemaresoldtoafeedlotorfeederoperationswheretheyarefed,theybasicallyweanthemoffthegrassandfeedthemadietthat'sveryhighincarbohydrateandgrains.Soit'sgrain,corn,soy,andthecowjusteatsitandeatsitandeatsitandjustkeepseatingandgetsbiggerandbiggerandbigger.Whereasthegrass-fedcowjuststaysonthefield,andgenerally,it'slikeinsteadofsixmonthsit'saboutninemonthsbeforethecowhasgrowntothefullsize.Sograss-fedcowsareleanerbecausetheydidn'tspendsixmonthsjusteatinggrain,andbasically,theylivedasnature-intended.Soinmanyways,they'vebeenhealthierratherthaneatingofsubstancesnotreallydesignedforacow.

So,yeah,thereare,youknow,likeIsaid,it's98%oftheindustrygoesonewayand2%goestheotherway.Thewholestructurehasbeenbuiltaroundkindofthatfeederoperationandwe'reheretochangethatstructureandwe'reheretobasicallycreateadifferentwayforthefarmersandadifferentwayforthecustomerandkindofhelpbridgethatgapinbetween.Sochickenis...yeah,yousaidorganictoo.Sobasicallyorganicinordertobeorganicit'skindoflikeathird-partycertification.Soitisathird-partycertification.Sotherearecertainrequirementsofbeingorganicandinthemeatworlds,youcanreadthoserequirementsandthenunderstandlikewhatyouwanttosupport.

Soinalotofcasesyoudon'tfindorganicpasture-raisedgrass-fedbeefbecauseit'stoohardforthefarmerstocertifytheirfieldsandthesecowsroam,andsoifyouhaveahugefieldit'sveryhardtocertifytheentirethingasorganicbecausethingslikeatractorthatgoesfromonesideofanon-organicfieldintoanorganicfieldruinstheorganiccertification.Soit'sveryhardandveryexpensive,andinthiscountry,landishardtocomebyandcertainlyhardtocourtoffasorganic.Sosometimeswhenyouseeorganicmeatorbeefit'swhatit'sfedisorganicgrainsinagrain-fedenvironment.Andbroughtupinacoupleoffieldswheretheyhaveorganic.

Onthechickenandporkside,that'sdifferent.Soorganicchickenit'sfedorganicgrainsanditis...therearelikedensityrequirementsand,youknow,healthandwellnessrequirements,etc.Socertainly,ifyou'reworriedaboutantibioticsandhormonesIthinklookingforitspecificallysayingantibioticorhormonefreeororganicisthewaytogo.Andjusttoputacaponthispiece,whatItellpeople,sooftentimespeoplearelikeIcan'taffordgrass-fedbeef.Youknow,whichIrecognizeasarealchallengeforpeoplelikeputtingfoodontheplateishardandit'sexpensive,andwhatItellpeopleisifyou'renotgonnaeat…ImeanthefirstthingIwouldsayiseatmeat,justeatlessmeat.Eathigh-qualitymeatbuteatlessofit.

ThesecondthingIwouldsayisifthat'snotworkingforyouwhatyouwanttodo...soanimalstoretoxinsintheirfat,sodohumans.Andwhatyou'dwanttodoisgettheleanestcutspossible.Like,soifyoufeellikeyou...andthisistheonlymeatIhaveaccessto,great,trytheleanestcutaspossible.Andthenifyouwanttohavethatyouknowthingofbaconoryouwanttohavethatribeyeoryouwanttohavesomethingwithalotoffattrytogetthecleanestmeatyoucan.


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Katie:Idefinitelyechothatandthat'swhatourfamily'sdonealotovertheyearsisjusttoeatlessmeatandmakesureit'sreallyhighquality.AndIalwaystellpeoplethatfromabudgetperspective,it'seasytoaddinandinexpensivetoaddineventhingslikefrozenvegetablesifyou'reonabudgetorjustwhatevervegetablesareinseasonwhencabbageisinseason,it'sveryinexpensiveandstretchedthemeatbuy.

Mike:Yeah.

Katie:Ithinkmorevegetableswhichmostpeopleuniversallyagreearevegetablesareprettygoodforussothat'sagreatplacetostart.I'mgladyoutalkedabouttheenvironmentalimpactaswellbecauseonethingthatfrustratesmeinthehealthworld,I'msureyouseeitaswell,isthepolarizedpeoplearguingovertinydetailsindietevenamongstthelikeveganversuspaleo,there'sactuallysomuchweallagreeon.There'slike90%weallagreeonnoneofusinthishealthworldwantfeedlotstohappen.Nobodywantsanimalstobetreatedpoorly.Soit'slikethere'ssomuchwecandotogetherifwelearnfromthatcommonground.ButIknowaquestionthatcomesupsooftenisabouttheenvironmentalimpactofmeatingeneral.

Mike:Yeah.

Katie:AndIoftenhearpeoplesay,youknow,likecows,orit'sbadfortheplanetforanyofustoeatmeat.SoI'dloveifyoucouldspeaktothatfromtheindustryside.Isthereactuallyaroleforanimalsintheenvironment.

Mike:Yeah.Andit'sactuallysuperinteresting.Sobasicallyallthefactsabouttheenvironmentandtheenvironmentalimpacts,I'lltakecowsbecauseImeantherearewholemoviesaboutthebeefindustry.So,allthefactsabouttheenvironmentandtheenvironmentalimpactsaregenerallyforthefeedlotcownotforagrass-fedpasture-raisedcow.Sothat'sjustlikeonepiece,soalotoflike,it'sreallybadfortheenvironment,allthefarting,allthestuff,it'slikethatwasthemeasurement.Actually,theUNClimatereportwhichIthinkwasdonein2015,thelastreportthattheydid,saysthatgrass-fedcowsemitmorecarbonthangrain-fedcowsbecausetheonlythingtheylookedatwaslifespan.Sobecausetheylivelongerthey"emit"morecarbonintotheair.

Sothat'skindoflikethebackdropofwhatpeoplesayonthenegativeside.There'sawholebunchofresearchhappeningrightnowwhichisreallyinterestingandexcitingaboutsoilandwhattheycallcarbonsequestration,andaboutwhathappenswhenyouputanimalsonthesoil.Soifyou'veeverbeentoafarmwhereyou'relookingatapastureanywherethattheanimalhasbeenisgenerallyawaymorelushgrassfields.Andinthemiddleofthiscountrytherearelotsoffieldsthathavebeenoverfarmedforyearswithcrops.Andessentiallythesoilisprettydepletedandiscompletely…hasjustbeentilledandtilledandtilledandtilled.Andwhatpeopleareseeingisifyouputanimalsontheland,they'repooping,they'reusingtheirhoofstomashthatpoopinandit'sgrowingtheseincrediblyfertilegrasslands.


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Ifyouthinkaboutthiscompanylike…orthereissomecountrybackinthedaysofthebuffaloitwastheGreatPlains.Soit'sthiswide,openplainsofgrass,andthatgrasswas,youknow,basically,buffaloeseatingthegrass,they'repoopingouttheseeds,they'remashingitinandit'screatingmoreandmoregrasslands.Andwhatpeoplearemeasuringnowiswhattheycallcarbonsequestrationwhichistheabilityforthosegrasslandsjustlikeatreetoessentiallysuckcarbonoutoftheatmosphereandstoreitinthegroundwhereit'sanutrientforthegroundandthegroundcancontinueto,youknow,getbetterandbetterandmorefertile.

Sothere'sactuallysomereally...there'stheSavoryInstitutewhichhasdonealotofresearchonthis.Heactually,he'sfromIthinkZimbabweandthey'veseenthiswithlikeelephantsandlargeanimalsaswellwheretheygotoareaswhereit'saridorwheregrassisnotgrownandthey'reabletolikeregenerateSavannahinreallyinterestingandexcitingways.Sowe'reveryexcitedforthisnotionofemission-freeorcarbon-neutralmeat,andweareworkingwithpeopleonmeasurement,bettermeasurementmakingsurethat...sothereisamethane,youknow,cowsfartanditproducesmethane.Thereisthat.Butintermsoflikefirstofallaftereatingadietthat'smadeforthemit'slessandifthere...butnobodyhaslikereallymeasuredthisstuffbefore.Sothere'ssomereallyinterestingworkbeingdoneonthisspace.

AndImeanthereisalotofdifferentargumentsforandagainst,so,youknow,theveganargumentofnoteatinganimalsisinterestingbecausegenerally,youknow,thetofuthatpeopleareeatingorthebeansthatthey'reeatingcomefromthosesameovercroppedareas.AndImeanit's...therearealotofinsects,alotofanimals,alotofbees,alotof,youknow,thingsintheground.There'salotoflivinglifethatexistsinopengrassfieldsanddoesn'texistina,youknow,inaplantedsoyfield.Well,thatjustsaysit'sinterestingbecausethatneverreallycomesup.It'sreallyjustaboutthecow.

TheaverageAmericaneats220poundsofmeatamonth…oh,sorry,ayear,so,andagrass-fedcowisprobablyabout500poundsofediblemeat.Soyou'retalkingaboutifyouandyourfamilyhadonecowandatefromthatcowit'sgonnalastyouaboutayear.And,youknow,there'sinterestingargumentsonallsides,environmental,aswellashumanearguments.AndI,agreewithyou.Soweagreethattheindustryneedstobereformed,that'swhatwe'retryingtodo.Wehavealotofpeoplewho,youknow,triedbeingavegetarianandcan'tbecausethey'renothealthyorit'sjustnotworkingforthem,andalotofthosepeoplereallyappreciatebeingabletoworkwithusbecausewecarealotabouthowtheanimalswereraised.

ImeanIcouldtellyou,youknow,we'retouringthefarms,we'retouringtheslaughterhouses,we'rejustmakingsurethatthatexperienceisasgoodaspossible.Youknow,giventhatweknowthatit'smeat,right?Soitwasalivinganimalwhichissad,butwetrytomakesurethatthat'sasdignifiedofanexperienceaspossible,andalotofthathastodowiththisfundamentalbeliefwehavewhichiswhyit'salloverourwebsiteandalloverourboxwhichis,"Backtonature."Thisnotionofnaturehadareallygoodplanandwe'vebeentryingtocontrolnature,andallweneedtodoisjustgobacktothewayitusedtobeandthingsseemedtobewaymoreinharmonyandwaybetter,andthehealthoutcomesforhumansandthehealthoutcomesfortheanimaljustappeartobewaybetter.


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Katie:Yeah,IabsolutelyagreeandIthinkjusttogobacktothatpointforasecond,Ithinkthat's…wecouldactuallycreatesomuchchangeandwearethroughoutthehealthindustrycertainly,butifallofuswouldstartwiththethingsweagreeon.AndIthinkthat'sacommonthingthatwouldactuallyhelpacrossthesocietyrightnowifwecanstartwiththethingsweagreeon.

AndIwanttoswitchgearsalittlebitbecauseIthinkyoualsohavesomewisdominadifferentareathatcouldreallybehelpfultoalotofthelistenersandthat'sontheentrepreneurialsideandlifebalance.AndthereasonIsaythatisbecausemostofthepeoplelisteningaremoms,notallofthembutmostofthem,andIfirmlybelievethatmomsarethehardestworkersontheplanetandwe'reconstantlyjugglingprettymuch,youknow,nineplatesintheairatalltimes.AndIthinktheonlythingthatcomesprettycloseisentrepreneuriallife.SoIwouldloveifyoucouldthatforaminuteofhowyouhavemanagedtofindbalance.Becausecertainly,I'msuregrowingacompanywhilehavingthreetoddlersinthehousehasnotbeenaneasyrideallthetime.

Mike:No.No,definitelynot.So,I'llgivealittlebitofaback-storybut…Ijustreadthisarticleaboutmentalstrain,Idon'tknow,ifyou'veseenthis,Ithinkit'sinSlateorsomething.Andit'sabouthowthemomwhetherit'sapart-timemom,orapart-timeworkingmom,full-timeworkingmom,orastayathomemom,there'sthisnotionofmentalstrain,whichisessentiallylikethestrainofkeepingthehousegoingandcoordinatingallthedifferentthingsandthecalendarsandtheeventsandlikethis,that,theother,thebills.Youknow,runningahouseholdisincrediblyhardandalotofthatforwhateverreasonisjustgiventothemomwhichisessentiallylikeentrepreneurship,you'reright.It'slikeallthesedifferentthings.Youhavenoideawhat'sgonnahappentodayandit'slikeyoujustgottoreactinthebestwaypossibleandhopeforthebest.

Andsoacoupleofthings,one,Igrewupwithoutafather.MyparentsgotdivorcedwhenIwasthreemonthsold.I'mtheyoungestoffour,soIneverhadadad.Andalways,Iwasthekidthatalwaysbelievedmydadwascominghomeandneverdid.AndItakemyjobasafather,asthemostimportantofalltheroles,themostimportant.And,youknow,what'shappenedisthat'sactuallyworkedbetterforthebusiness.Mylastcompany,sotheCustomMadecompanyIwasthefirstguyandIwasthelastguytoleave.Iwasthereontheweekends.Iwasworkingandworkingandworking,andgrindingandgrindingandgrinding.Ididn'thaveanykidsatthatpoint,but,youknow,definitely,likeleftmywife,youknow,homealonealotjusttolikeworkandworkandwork.Anditdidn'tworklikeIdidn'tperformanybetter.

Thecompanydidn'tperformanybetter,inmanywayswedidworsebecauseIwasaroundsomuch.AndoneofthebiglessonsthatIhadwhenmydaughterMarleywasbornandIstartedButcherBoxwas,alotoftimesIbelievethatIneededtobetheretokeepalltheplatesspinningandlikekeepeverythinggoing.AndwhatIdidn'tdoorwhatIlike...Ididn'treallywanttodothatanymore.Iwantedtokeepplatesspinninginmyfamily.IwantedtobetheresoI,youknow,I'vetriedtonotworkFridaysandI'vetriedto...I'mhomefordinnerprettymucheverynight.IsaynotoalotofstuffbecauseIbelievethatmyjobistobeafatherandbehome,andalsototakesomeofthatmentalstrainaway.


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SoIalsobelievelikesomeofthatworkissupereasyformetodobecauseI'minfrontofthecomputerandI'mjustlikeinexecutionmode.So,youknow,Idoalotoftheappointmentsettingandalotofthevacationplanningandalotofthestuffthatlikeit...whateverIcantakeoffmywife,Karlene'splatesothatshecanfocuson,youknow,beingthemomshewantstobeanddoingthethingsshewantstodoandalsoherbusiness.She'sapelvicfloorphysicaltherapistwhichbythewayisamazing.Youshouldhaveheronbecausesheis...Imeanwhat'shappening…andthat'satotalaside,butwhat'shappeninginpelvicfloorhealthandthewayinwhichshecanhelpwomenrebuildtheirpelvicfloorsafterhavingchildrenisincredible.Anditcanhappenreallyfast.Somywiferunsacompany,it'scalledWomen'sJourneyPhysicalTherapy,it'saBostonbasedthingthing,so.Butherpatientsarepeoplewhohadchildrenandgenerallyhaveissueswithincontinence.Soleakurinewhetherthat'swhenyoupicksomethingup,sneeze,jumprope,etc.Andit'sfixableandalotofpeopledealwithshameoveryearsandyearsandyearsoflike,"Oh,geez,somethingiswrongwithme."Andshebasicallyinsixvisits,somepeopletakelonger,somepeopletakeshorter,helpspeoplegetbetter,whichisamazingthingintermsofempoweringwomenandempoweringmoms,andwhatnot.Andalsoshebirthedtwinssoshe'snostrangerto,youknow,havingyourbodygetreally,reallyhurtbyhavingkids.

Soanyway,that'sanaside.IbelievethatthemorethatIasanentrepreneurcanhavethatbleedintomyhomelifeandhelpasmuchasIcanisreallyimportant.It'salsobeenreallyimportanttomeespeciallyifyou'reinastartuporifyou'restartingacompany,yougettochoosethelifethatyouwanttolive.Youknow,alotofpeoplearelike,"IreallywishIcoulddothatbutIcan'tbecauseIhavetolikedomystartupwork."Andthat'slike,well,that'smissingthewholepoint.Thewholepointofbeinganentrepreneurislifestyledesign.Yougettodesignthelifestyleyouwant.Ifyouwanttoworksuperhard,okay,worksuperhard.Butjustknowthatyou'remakingthatchoice.

Now,obviously,likeeveryonceinawhilethere'ssomethingyouhavetodoand,youknow,that'sdifferent.ButIthinkforthemostpartpeople,especiallypeopleinlike,"Startups"believethatgrindingitoutisthewaytogo,thatworking100hoursaweekislike,youknow,somethingtobeproudof.AndI'vejustmadeahugeshiftinthatintermsofrealizingthat,youknow,itstemsfromworkbutthelessI'mlikeineveryone'shairandworkingandthemoreI'mdelegatingandempoweringotherstodomyworkthebetterthingsare.

Katie:Yeah,absolutely.AndIlovedacouplethingsyoujustsaid.First,beingtheimportanceoffamilydinner.IlovethatyougohomefordinnereverynightandIthinklikethat'sonethingwedoaswellinourfamily.Andthatonesmallchangealoneitaffectsyourfamilyculturesomuchandinsuchanimportantway.AndIthinkthat'ssomethingIwouldencourageallfamiliestodo.

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Katie:IalsolovethatyoutalkedaboutthementalstrainsideorI'vealsohearditcalledliketheemotionalresponsibilityforthefamily.Like,there'ssomany…I'vereadmultiplearticlesaboutthisandIthinkyou'reabsolutelyright,thatallthesethingsdogetputonwomenwhichiswonderful,likeIknowwomanareperfectlycapableofbalancingthesethingsbutIalsoknowthatitcanbesuperoverwhelming.

AndsoI'mgonnasharemoreaboutitmyselfinthenextyearorso,butIwenttothisphasewhereIwasdoinggreatonthebusinessside.Ihadsystems,Ihadachecklist,thebusinesswasrunning,andIfeltlikeIwasalwaysstressedathomeandIkeptthinking,"WhycanIjustkillitinbusinessbutIcan'tmanagemyownpersonallifelikethis."AndIfinallyrealized,well,maybeit'sbecauseIactuallyhaveamissionandgoalsandsystemsinmybusiness,andathome,I'mkindofjustflyingbytheseatinmypantstryingtogeteverythingdone.

Mike:Yeah.


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Katie:AndsoIreallyliketookthebusinessmindsetandadaptedthattomyhomelifeandthebyproductwaswheneverythinghadatimeandaplaceandasystemtherewasnolongerthatemotionalstrainormentalstrainofhavingtothinkabouteverythingallthetime.Andsothat'sonethingI...itsoundslikeyouguyshavefiguredoutaswell.ButIreallyencouragewomentoconsiderisjustwhenyouputsystemsinplaceyou'veactuallygotatremendousamountoffreedom,andjustlikewithentrepreneurlifeIfeellikeourfamiliesit'sourlifestyledesign.Wehavefamiliesbecausewewanttoenjoyourfamiliesandspendtimewiththosewelove.Butsooftenwegetstuckintheweedsofjustmanagingthedaytoday.SoIlovethatyoumadethatconnectionandIknowfromtalkingtomutualfriendsthatyouhavealsoworkedveryhardtobuildanincrediblecompanycultureatButcherBox.

AndIthinkthisisanotherlessonthat'sreallyapplicabletofamiliesbecausefamilieslikebusinesseshaveacultureandit'ssomethingmaybenotallofusthinkconsciouslyaboutcreating.ButIthinkit'ssuperimportant.SoIwouldloveifyoucouldsharealittlebitaboutthingsyoudotocreateacompanycultureandespeciallyhowthosethingscouldtranslateintofamilylife.

Mike:Yeah.Sothat'sagreatquestion.Socompanycultureisreallyfun,veryfun,kindoftopictoworkonandtothinkabout.It'salsoincrediblyimportantbecauseifyoudon'testablishtheculturethatyouwantitrunsawayfromyou.Sothentheculturebecomesthecultureitis.Andespeciallyifyou'reinagrowingorganizationwhere,youknow,weareatasizenowwhereitusedtobeeveryonewhowashereIknewpersonally.IprobablyknewthemforafewyearsbecauseIwascallingthemfriendsorpeoplethatworkedformebefore.Andnow,we'reataplacewheresometimespeoplehirepeopleandIhaven'tevenmetthem.

Soifwedon'thaveaculturethateveryoneunderstandsyourunariskofhiringpeopleandimmediatelylikekindoflosingthatculturewhichisareally…youknow,itmeansit'sevenmoreimportant.Mylastcompany,weneveractuallyestablishedaculture.Weneveractuallywrotedown,"Hereareourculturalvalues"untilitwaswaytoolate.Untiltheculturereallygottestedandthenwewerelike,"Oh,okay.Iguessweshouldwritesomethingdownbecausethisisn'tthewaywewantedthingstogo."

So,yeah,Imeantheculturethatwehavehereis...sowehaveculturevalues.Humbleisoneofthem,sohumilityisincrediblyimportanttome.Memberobsessed,meaningwe'realwaysthinkingaboutourmembers,howtodriveabetterexperienceforthem,howtomaketheirexperienceevenbetter.Andwe'vebeenworkingsuperhardthisyear.Itwasareallyhardsummer.Wechangedourboxandwenttoamoreeco-friendlyliner,andthatcausedalotofthoughtstohappenandlike,youknow,we'rejust…allwecareaboutisdeliveringanamazingexperiencetothecustomer.And,youknow,sothatnumberobsessionisareallybigone.Accountabilityisreallyimportantaswell.Soifyousayyou'regonnadosomethingthatyouactuallydoit.Authenticity.

AndwhatIfindislikethosearethethingsthatpeoplewouldsayaboutme,Iwouldhopepeoplewouldsayaboutme.Soreallythecultureinalotofwayscomesfromthefounderorthefoundingteamoflike,"Thisis


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what'simportanttous.Thisishowwewanttoshowup."Andit'sagreatreminderof,youknow,likethenyoustarthiringpeopleandstartscreeningpeopleonthosequestionslikearetheyhumble.WhentheycomeindotheytalkwithalotoflikeIlanguage,like,"IdidthisandthenIdidthisandthenIdidthis."Orlike,youknow,"Iwasonateamandwewereabletoaccomplishthisandthenwedidthis."Youcanseeit.Ihave,youknow,thingsintermsofinterviewingpeoplethingsaseasyas,like,didtheypickupthecoffeemugthatwasonthetableandaskme,wherecantheyputit?

Youknow,howdidtheycomein?WeretheyabletorollwiththefactthatIwasn'taroundforafewminutesanddidtheytalktotheteamornot?Werethey,youknow…likethere'sjustthingsthatyoustarttolookfortomakesurethatpeoplefitin.Andobviously,likewewantdiversitytoo.Soyouwantdiversethoughts,youwantdiversebackground,youwantdiverse…youknow,justlikethat'sgoodforacompany,that'sgoodforanyorganization.Butalsoyouwantpeopletohavesomeofthesecorefundamentalvaluesorelseit'sjustnotgonnawork.Soifyoucomeinhereandyousayyouknoweverythingthat'snotagoodstart.It'snotgonnawork.

Katie:Cantalkalittlebitaboutthetalentfactoryaswell.ThisissomethingelseI'veheardthatyoumentioned.

Mike:Yeah.That'scool,yeah,thetalentfactory.SowhatIhavetalkedaboutforyearsis,soIguessalittlebackdrop,myfirstcompany,wewereuptoabout60people,wetookabunchofventurecapital,andthenitdidn'tworkoutthewaywewantedtoandwewentdowntoateamoffive.Myco-founderstillrunsit.Hewasrebuildingit.It'sworkinggreat,custommade.comforjewelry.Butitwasn'tthelikemassiveoutcomeitcouldhavebeen.Andawholebunchofreasonsforthat,butoneofthethingsthatIrealizedwas,youknow,soIhadtolikeletgoofalotofpeoplewhichisawful.AndwhatIrealizedwaseveryonewantstobeinacompany,theelbow,liketheviralgrowthcurvewherejustlikeyou'regrowinglikecrazy,yourrevenueisgrowinglikecrazy.Everyoneislookingforthatintermsofthestartupworld.

Andwhatveryfewpeoplehonororthinkaboutisyourabilityifyougointoacompanylikethatisifyoucangrowatthesamegrowthrateasthecompanyyoucanliterallyinacoupleyearscompletelychangeyourcareerintermsofwhereyoustartedandwhereyouendup.Sosomebodywhocomesinasaninterncanberunninganentiredivisioninanincrediblyshortamountoftimejustbysayingyesandbyjustknowing,"Hey,well,I'monthisgrowthcurveIgottostayaheadofthegrowthcurve,"whichisincrediblyhardtodo,butiftheydoit,it'samazing.

SogoingbacktowhenwewerelettingpeoplegoatCustomMadewhatIrealizedwaswhenIfeltreallygoodandproudeventhoughI'msayinglike,"Hey,youknow,wecan'tdoitanymore.Wehavetosaygoodbye."IwouldfeelincrediblyproudifIhaddonetheworkorifIfeltlikethecompanyhaddonetheworktotakethemfromaspot,youknow,fromonespottoanotherspotwayabove.BecausethenIfeltlike,okay,ifyouwerethereforsixmonths,ifyouwerethereforaweek,ifyouwerethereforthreeyears,atleastwehadthishugeimpactonyourlifeandon,youknow,yourfuturecareer,andwhereyoucango,andwhatyoubelieveinyourselfthatyoucando.Andsointhiscompany,Idecidedtoreallyembracethat,right,tolikereallyfocusonthetalentfactory.


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Sohowdowegetpeoplebetter,youknow,howdoweempowerpeopletodobiggerthings?Howdowebasicallyfranklygivepeoplealotoftrust,youknow,alotofropeandalotoflike,okay,youknow,likewe'llbuildsomeguardrailsbut,youknow,you'regonnahavewaymoreresponsibilitythanyouimagineveryquickly.Andletpeoplerisetothatoccasion.AndwhatIfindisifyouhavetherightpeopleespeciallywiththattraitofhumilityandaccountability,andthinktheyhaveauthenticity,ifthey'rewillingtosay,"Oh,Imessedthisup.Like,whatdoIdonow?"Youcanhaveareally,reallyinterestingcompanyculture.So,yeah,wehavepeoplewhoIbelieveareridingthatcurvereallywellorstayingaheadofthatcurve.Andthat'sreallyexciting.Andit'ssocooltosee,youknow,youtakeariskonsomebodyandyouseewheretheyendupandit'samazing.It'sreally,reallyfun.

Katie:Ilovethat.AndIthinkthat'sactuallyaperfectcorollarytohumanlifeaswell.Ithinkofthisinrelationtomykidsandyoursmaystillbealittleyoungforthis,butpeopleaskedmealot,howdoyougetitalldone,howdoyoudothiswithbusinessandkids?AndmyansweristhatIdon't.Ihaveateaminbothplaces,andathome,partofthatteamisourfamily,ourchildren.Andthatourfocuswiththemiscreatinglifelongskillssothattheycanenteradulthoodasafunctionalhumanbeingwhocandoallofthethingsrequired.Andpartofthatmeansthattheyarecontributingtothehouseholdandthatwegivethemalargedegreeofindependenceearlybutalsowiththatcomesresponsibility.Andsotheyhavethingsthey'reresponsibleforinthehouse.Andthedegreetowhichtheycanbeindependentandperformthosetasks,ofcourse,makesmylifeeasierbutitalsogivesthemthatautonomyandtheabilitytobeself-sufficientinthatskillandtotakeownershipforit.Andit'strulyamazing,Ifeellikewhatchildrencanaccomplishwhenthey'regiventhatfreedomtodoso.

Sowehaveamottoinourfamilywithourkidsthatwedon'tdoanythingforthemoncethey'recapableofdoingitthemselves.Andthat'snottosaythatIwillnever,youknow,brushmydaughter'shairorbraiditbecausesheisoldenoughtobrushit.Westilldothingsinabondingway,ofcourse,butoncetheycantietheirownshoes,theytietheirownshoes.Andoncetheycandotheirownlaundrytheydotheirownlaundrybecauseourgoalistocreateindependentfunctioningadults,anditsoundslikeyoudothesamethinginyourcompany.Youwanttocreatepeoplewhohaveskills,whocanchangetheworldandtheygetbetterandnotwhoarejuststuckinaverydefinedrole.Ilovethat.

Mike:Yeah.No,that'ssuper.I'mtakingthattomyfamilybecause,youknow,likeeventhismorning,soIhavea4-year-oldandtwo2-year-olds,allgirls.Andmy4-year-oldwhocanveryeasilygetherselfdressedandoftentimesdresseshersisterstodaywaslike,"Ineedhelpgettingdressed."Andfirstofall,IgotfrustratedbecauseIdidn'tsleepwellandIwasworriedaboutleavingthehouseandwhatnot.IhelpedherbutIwasfrustratedaboutitand,youknow,I'msurewhatshewasreallyaskingforwas,one,eitherabondingmomentwhere,youknow,Icouldjustseeherandjustbewithher.Ortwo,shereallywantedhelpgettingdressed,butIthinkthat'sridiculousbecausesheknowshowtogetdressed.Sousingthekindoflikeonceyouknowhowtodoityourselflikeyoudoit.Ithinkthat'sagreatwaytobuildinthelifelonglearning.

Katie:Yeah,absolutely.


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Mike:Doyouhaveanychorerecommendationsfora2-year-oldanda4-year-old?

Katie:Yeah.SoI'llsayonthatfirstnotethat'sonethingofcoursekidsalsoarehumanlikeallofusandifthingsdon'tworktheydon'tnecessarilydoit.SoIalreadydidthatagetoowithdefaulttothe"Ican'tdoit”or“Ineedhelp."Andwewouldhavealltheseresponsesbasicallythelonglinesof,"Well,Iwon'tdoitbecauseIknowthatyouarecapableanditwillbeaninsulttoyourcharacterifIdiditforyou,"orsomethingalongthoselinesandkindofreframingforthem.Ilovethe2and4agesthoughbecausetheystillhavethatnaturaldesiretohelp,whichIfeellikeisagreattimetohoneitin.

Soatthatage,wewouldletthemdothingslikehelploadthedishwasher.Theycouldwipethingsdown.Theycouldobviouslykeeptheirownroomscleanandlearnhowtofoldclothesintheirdrawers.Buthonestly,our...She'snow5,butwhenshewas4,oursecondyoungeststarteddoingherownlaundrybecauseshewascapableandIshowedherhowtodoitandhowtotreatstains,andshewouldhavetogetastoolbecauseshewassolittle,she'dabletogetstuffoutofthelaundry,outofthewasher,andputitinthedryer,butshewascompletelycapableandshestilldoesthat.Soprettymucheverybodyfromnumberfiveonupdoestheirownlaundrybecausethey'recapable.SoIwouldsaybabystepthemintoitbuttheyareespeciallyat4andabovethatthey'reincrediblycapableofdoingalotmorethanweoftengivethemcreditfor.

Mike:Yeah.No,that'sawholesubjectwhichwe'rejuststartingtogetintowhichis,yeah,it'sactuallyverygoodformetohearkindofhowyou'vetakenthingsfromyourbusinessandmovedthemintoyourfamilylife.Becauseitisthemalethat's…youknow,theideaofwork-lifebalanceis,Idon'tknow,Ithinkit'skindofamisnomerbecauseit'sreallyablurbetweenworkandlifeandit'sfiguringouthowtomakethatblursothatyoucouldbepresentineverymomentandbepartofthatblur.Sothisideaoftakingthethingsthattomeandmycompanyarelike,ofcourse,you'reaccountable,doit.Youknow,andthinkingabouthowtorelatethatbackintomyhouseis,yeah,that'sagoodthoughtexercise.

Katie:Forsure.AndIthinkithelpstoalsoalleviatesomeofthatparentguiltthathappensattimesofwhenyou'rewithyourkidsyoufeelguiltyyou'renotgettingworkdoneandwhenyou'regettingworkdoneyoufeelguiltyyou'renotspendingtimewithyourkids.Andjustreframingthattorealize,ofcourse,youwantyourkidstoseeyoubeingasuccessfulentrepreneurandchangingtheworldanddoingthingstomaketheworldbetterand,ofcourse,youalsowantthemtoseeyoubeinganamazingparent.AndsoIthinkthat'sthekeytoitall.It'sjustbeingextremelypresentinthemomentwheneverthatmomentisbecauseyoucan'tbepresenteverywhereallthetime.So,that'sanotherkeyprincipleinourfamiliesthatwearepresentwheneverwe'reinaplacewe'reverycarefultobepresentthere.

ButwhenitcomestoadviceanotherquestionIlovetoasktowardtheendofinterviewsandIwouldlovetohearyouransweris,anybookorbooksthathavereallyhadanimpactonyourlifethatyouwouldrecommend?


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Mike:Definitely.Somymostgiftedbookisanoldiebutgoodie,"RichDad,PoorDad."PersonalfinanceisathingIjustthinkit'scrazyiftheydon'tteachinschools,theydon'tteachpeoplehowto,youknow,likewhathavingmoneymeansorhowtosave,etc.Sointermsofpersonalfinance,"RichDad,PoorDad,"and,"TheRichestManinBabylon"whichisthiswholenotionthatallyouneedtodoistake10%ofyourmoneyandsaveitandinvestit,andyou'llbefine.

Intermsoflikeleadershipbooks,let'ssee,Ijustgotintothiswholethingcalled,"ConsciousLeadership,"whichisafascinatingsubject.Andabookcalled,"TheBigLeap"isalsoaninterestingone.Andthoseareprobablymybigrecommendations.

Katie:Andanypartingadvicethatyouwishyoucouldspreadfarandwide?Therewouldatleastbeacouplehundredthousandpeoplelisteningtothis,youcangetitthatfar.

Mike:Well,getsomemeatfromButcherBox.Partingadvice,now,youknow,Ithinkwhat'sreallyinterestingrightnowinthisworldisthere'salotofdivision,there'salotofdivisiveness.AndIagreewithsomethingyoutouchedonattheverybeginningwhichisiftwosidescouldjusttrytofindthatcommongroundandworkfromthereit'sjustawaybetter…Ithinkalotofstuffcanhappen,thingscanbedone,and,youknow,trytofindcommongroundwiththepersonyoudisagreewithIthinkisobviouslyanongoingchallengebutsomethingIrecommendforeveryonetotrytodoalittlemoreof.

Katie:Yeah,absolutely.Ithinkthat'ssomething,unfortunately,we'reseeingjustmoreandmoredivision,andthedaysrollandit'seasytofocusonthethingswedisagreeonorIevenseepeopleshutpeopleoutofeachother'slivesbecausetheydisagreeononethingandtheystillprobablyagreeonsomuchmore.ButalsoIalwaysthinkevenifyoudon'tagreeonthingsweoweittoourkids,backtothefamilything,toshowthemexamplesofbeingabletodisagreewithsomeoneandstillloveandrespectthem.

Mike:Yeah.

Katie:AndsoIlovethatthat'syou'repartingadvicebecausecertainly,theworldneedsthatrightnow.

Mike:Yeah,sure.

Katie:Awesome.Well,Mike,thankyousomuchforyourtimeandbeinghere.Thishasbeenfun.IlovethatwegottotouchonfamilyandbusinessandsomeotheraspectsIdon'tusuallygettotalkabout.AndIknowthatyouareabusyparentandbusinessownersoIappreciateyouprioritizingbeingwithustoday.

Mike:Yeah,absolutely.Itwasmypleasure.


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Katie:AndthankstoallofyouforlisteningandIhopeyou'lljoinmeagainonthenextepisodeof,"TheWellnessMamaPodcast."

Ifyou'reenjoyingtheseinterviews,wouldyoupleasetaketwominutestoleavearatingorreviewoniTunesforme?Doingthishelpsmorepeopletofindthepodcast,whichmeansevenmoremomsandfamiliescouldbenefitfromtheinformation.Ireallyappreciateyourtime,andthanksasalwaysforlistening.

Episode 222: Why ButcherBox Is Bringing Back Grass-Fed Meat … · 2019-01-14 · quality....

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Transcript of Episode 222: Why ButcherBox Is Bringing Back Grass-Fed Meat … · 2019-01-14 · quality....