THE SAVVY DENTIST PODCAST WITH DR JESSE GREEN

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EP 03 HOW BOUNING BACK FROM ADVERSITY WILL MAKE YOU A BETTER DENTIST WITH BEN IKIN

JesseGreen:

Ladiesandgentlemen,welcometotheshow.Todayisanexcitingday.WehaveabonafideRugbyLeaguelegendwithus,talkingtoustoday.VeryexcitedtohearBen'sviewsontheworld.

BenIkinisafootballgreat.He'sbeenplaying...Probablybornwithafootball,Ireckonbecauseheplayedsomuch.Heplayedfirstforthreeclubs,theGoldCoastSeagulls,ofcourse,NorthSydneyBears,myfavouriteteam.MysecondfavouriteteamisthemightyBrisbaneBroncos.Notonlythat,Ben'saQueenslandStateofOriginPlayer,with17startsforQueensland,andofcourseacoupleoftests.Ben,welcometothisshow,mate.

BenIkin:

Thanks,Jesse.

JesseGreen:

Mate,that'saprettyimpressiveCV,Imightadd.I'venevermetanyonewithafootballpedigreelikethatbefore.

BenIkin:

Ihave.

JesseGreen:

I'msureyou'vemetafew,mate.

BenIkin:

Somegoodmates,alotofblokeswho'vegotbetternumbersthanIhave.Infact,Ijokewiththemsometimes.We'llgodownanddoapublicspeakingengagementtogether,andIhavetojumponWikipediaandeditmynumbers,justsoIcansortofrespectfullystandonthesamestage.

JesseGreen:

That'sfabulous,mate.Evenwiththat,there'ssomeprettyimpressivenumbers.I'mjustcuriousmate,youmust'vebeenbornwithafootyinyourhand.You'vebeenplayingallyourlife?Didyoustartasawhippersnapper?

BenIkin:

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Istartedyoung,butitwasn'tmyfirstsport,RugbyLeague.IstartedinIFL,actuallyhereontheGoldCoast.IplayedforPalmBeachCurrumbin,whichisaside,aproudclubit'sstillinexistence.IthinkWayneCarey,theking,actuallywentandhadaseasonforPalmBeach,atonepointafterheretiredfromtheIFL.Then,afterIFLIgotintohockey.Thatwasmywintersportofchoiceforafewyears.Mylastyearofprimaryschool,atCurrumbinStateSchool,theystartedinter-schoolsport,andtheyonlygaveusthetwooptions.OnewasRugbyLeague,andonewasNetball.

JesseGreen:

SoNetballdidn'tgetalookingthen?

BenIkin:

No,myhandwaskindofforced.Itjustsohappenedthatparticularlyyear,1988,wasthesameyearthattheGoldCoastGiants,astheywerebackthen,gotintroducedintotheNewSouthWalesRugbyLeague.Sotoo,theBrisbaneBroncos.I'mlivinginsoutheastQueenslandontheGoldCoast,andtherewasmuchexcitementaroundRugbyLeague.Ihadoneseasonfortheschool.Iwentandjoinedthelocalfootyclub,theSeahawksandneverlookedback.IthinkIwas11then,andplayedrightthroughtheageof27,soIhadmuchfun.

JesseGreen:

That'safabulouslylongcareer.We'llgetintothepaththatyoutookthroughoutallthat,butfromtheageof11to27,that's16yearsofplayingfooty.Iguess,youknow,inawaymate,you'vebeenreallyluckytomakeacareeroutofsomethingthatyouobviouslytrulylove.There'snotmanypeopleIknowthatgettodothat.Ithinkthat'sabloodygoodthingtobeabletodo,mate.

BenIkin:

IfeelreallyluckyandhonouredtohavesomethingthatIlovedoing,thatIwaspassionateabout,turnintoacareerforme.Ofcourse,itdoesn'tmatterwhatyoudoinlife,whetheryoulovewhatyoudoornot,bythetimeyougetintoit,andstarttodoitprofessionally,ithasitshairsonit.There'sthingsinvolvedwithgoingaprofessionalathletethatmakeittough.There'salotofpublicexpectation.It'sahighriskcareer.Itdoesn'tgoforalongtime.

Iwascertainlyoneofthoseguysthatgotshotdownearlyinhiscareer,havingretiredat27offthebackofthreereconstructionsonmyleftknee,certainlymadeitdifficult,butcanIsaywithallthebrokenbonesandinjuriesandyouknow,lostgamesanddisappointingmoments,Iwouldn'thavechangeditforonemoment.Itwasanopportunityformetolearnalotaboutmyself.Isetmyselfandmyfamilyupforabrighterfuture.Icanhonestlysay,allthosewonderfullessonsthatIlearnedthroughmytimeasaprofessionalrugbyleagueplayer,I'vebeenabletotakeintolifeafterRugbyLeague.

JesseGreen:

That'sareallykeypoint,andI'msuperkeentodrilldownintothat,whichisfantastic.Oneofthethingsthough,becauseIdidreadupabutyourcareer,inpreparationfortoday.Itendtobeabitofaresearcher,andtheinjuriesthatyoumentionedjustthen,theydidcutyourcareershort,andclearlythatwould'vebeenquiteheartbreakinginmanyways.WhatI'mreallyinterestedtoknow,Ben,iswhenyoudealwithadversitylikethat,andyouliterallyarethinking"thisistheendofmyfootycareer,what’snext?"I'massumingyoucometothiskindofcrossroads,abitofforkintheroad.

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Firstly,I'mcurioustoaskhowdidyoudealwiththatadversity?Whatgotyouthroughthat?Whenyougottothatforkintheroad,whatwasthedecisionmakingprocessthatyouwentthrough?

BenIkin:

Youlearncertainlylearnthatlife'snotlinear,aswe'dlikeittobe.Inhindsight,today'salwaysbetterthanyesterday,andtomorrowisn'tnecessarilyalwaysgoingtobebetterthantoday.Youhavegoodyearsandbadyears,andgoodmonthsandbadmonths.Youhavegoodgamesandbadgames,andyou'vejustgottobeabletoadapttoboth,andtakebothinyourstride.

Ikindof,Iwouldn'thavebeenabletoarticulateitthatwaybackwhenIwasplaying,soprobablytooyoung.Forsomereasoninsideme,whenthesetbackstruck,particularlywithmyleftknee,andthosethreekneereconstructions,IstartedtogetexcitementaboutlifeafterRugbyLeague.Ididn'tsortofwallowinselfpity.That'snotgoingtobethesameforeverybody.There'sguysthatIwithplayedgettingreallydowninthemouthaboutinjuries,andhandleditadifferentway.Forme,Iprobablystartedabouttheageof24andIhadthesemajorinjurysetbacks,mymindjuststarredtothinkforward.

Istartedtoprepareforlifeafterfootball.WhileI'dliketosithereandtellyouthatitfeltlikesomegreatbigadversityatthetime,andIhadtofightmywaybackonthefield,andthey'reallthesewonderfullessonsthatIlearntfromit,Ireallydidn't.Ijustsortofadapted,andIthinkthat'saskillthat'skindofinnateinme.I'mgladI'vegotit,becauseitmeansthatIcansortofpushmywaythroughanysetbacksthathappenalongtheway.IguessthedownsideofitisthatI'measilydistracted.I'malwayslookingsidewaysforthenextchallenge.It'sjustkindofwhoIam.

Atthetime,asIsay,whilefromtheoutsidelookingin,itmight'veseemedlikeIwasdoingitreallytough.Itcertainlywasn'tthecaseforme,personally.

JesseGreen:

Youhadthatfirstkneeinjurywhen,itstartedgoingaboutwonky,about24you'resaying.IguesswhatI'mhearingisthatatparticularmoment,youhadthepresenceofmindtogo,"wellhangon,itcouldbeanissuehere.Betterstartthinkingaboutmypostfootycareer.Iguessthat'swhenyoustartedthatmentalprocessto,youknow,planforyournextadventure.

BenIkin:

That'sright.Ijusthadtogetbusylearning,becauseyouknow,whilethere'salotofcharactertraitsandbehavioursthatyoupickupinlifeasaprofessionalathlete,itcertainlydoesn'tequipyouwiththeknowledgetogoonanddoatrade,orfillaroleanywhereelse.Exceptforperhapscoachingandthemedia,andthemediaweren'tthatreadilyavailabletome,atthetimeIwasreadytoretire.

Iwentandstudied.IwasdoingsomeworkexperiencewiththeBroncos.Forme,salesandmarketingwaskindoftheareawhereIendedup.Ischooledmyselfup.BythetimeIrealizeditwastimeformetomoveon,cutmytieswithprofessionalRugbyLeague,andtheBrisbaneBroncos,Ihadacoupleofopportunities.Eversincethen,I'vekindofappliedthesamephilosophy.I'vebeenthroughafewdifferentjobs,butthemomentIgetthesensethatit'stimeforachangeorIstartlookingforanewchallenge,Istartthatlearningprocessover,andknowthatifI'veanychanceofkindofbeingthebestthatIcanbe,inwhateverroleitisItakeon,I'vegottohavetheknowledge,andtheknowhowtomakesureIgetitright.

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JesseGreen:

Fabulous,mate,andclearly,that'sbeenasuccess.We'veseenyourfaceonallsortsofmediaovertheyears,andeverytimeIturnonthefootie,thereyouare,whichisjustfabulous.Clearly,allthathardworkandlearninghaspaidoff.

Ijustwanttogobacktoyourearlydaysforamoment,Ben.Whenyouthoughtaboutplayingfootball.Obviously,youstartedat11,andyouwentyourwaythroughfor16years,atwhatpointdidyoukindofhavetheinklingthatyouknow,thisissomethingthatI'dliketodoforever?Diditjustcontinueon,playingonegametothenext,anditkindofevolvedwithoutanymasterplan,ordiditjustevolve?

BenIkin:

Itcameverylateforme.Ihadamomentinmylastcoupleofyearsathighschool,whereIactuallywentthroughhighschoolprettyyoung,soIfinishedmyfirstyearofgrade12at16.IwasluckyenoughtogetanOPwholetmegooffanddoasciencedegree,environmentalsciencedegree,Ishouldsay.I'dlockedthatdown.Goingthroughhighschoolyoung,alsomeantthatinmyfinalyear,Iwasn'toldenough,sotospeak,tocompeteagainstthe17and18yearoldswhowereallvyingforthoseQueenslandandAustraliaSchoolBoysspotsinmychosensport,RugbyLeague.WhatIdidwasImadeadecisiontorepeatgrade12,andinsteadofsortoffocusingonmyschoolwork,Igotuptothatpoint,Iwentbackandchoseafeweasysubjects,andreallyworkedhardatmyRugbyLeague,andendedupmakingtheAustralianSchoolBoysside.

Iwantedtohavethat12monthsin1994tofigureoutwhetherornotIhadwhatittooktobeaprofessionalRugbyLeagueplayer.Cometheend,havingmadetheQueenslandandAustralianSchoolBoysteams,IhadtheopportunityandoffersfromacoupleofNRLclubs.That'swhenIknew,onlythen,thatthiswasadreamthatcouldperhapsturnintoreality.

Ofcoursethen,historywilltellyou,itbecamereallyfasttrackedforme,becausemyfirstyearoutofhighschool,in1995,IwasselectedtoplayintheQueenslandStateofOriginTeam.BythetimeIkindofhitthatpoint,theenvironmentalsciencedegree,verymuchgotputonthebackturner.

JesseGreen:

Yeah,mate,Ireadthatyouwereaddingyearsinsomethinglike83days.TheyoungesteverplayertoplayOrigin.That'scorrect,right?

BenIkin:

That'sright.

JesseGreen:

Mate,thatmust'vebeenforayoungboy,walkingintothatQueenslandteam,whichwerefullofprobablypeoplethatweall,asspectatorsidolized,butyou,asaplayer,youwould'vecertainlylookedupto,aswell.Whatwasitlike,walkingintothatdressingroomforthefirsttime?

BenIkin:

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Itwassurreal.It'stheonlywayIcoulddescribeit.I'dliketosithereandprobablyrecountwhatIlearned,andtheenormityofwhatIwasgoingthrough,butsortofsixweeks,myheadwasjustspinning.Iwas18yearsofage.Ididn'thavethelifeexperience,theemotionalexperience,tokindofproperlyhandlewhatwasgoingon.Iguessmakea...Whatwouldyousay,acontributionofanysortofprofoundnessexcepttojumponthebusandgofortheride.Iwasplayingoffthebench.Iwassortof,Ithinkinthecourseofthreegames,Iplayedfor25or30minutesonthewing.SoFattyVautinwasthecoachbackthen.HewasdoinghisbesttomakesureIwasgettingonthefield.

Iwasthatyoung,andthatinexperienced,butweweresoshortonnumbers,theyreallyhadnootherchoicethantoselectsomeonelikeme.Truthbetold,itwasjustso,sixtoeightweeksofjustsomethingthatI'veneverexperienceduptothatpointinmylife.Ijustwentfortheride,andwhatarideitwas.Comingtocamp,asyourightlypointedout,IhadsomeoftheguysthatI'dgrownupwatchingonTV,idolizing.IwasroomingwithMarkCoyne,andeightweekslater,wewonaStateofOriginseries3-0whenjustabouteverybodyontheplanetwassayingwecouldn'twinonegame,so,Imean,whatastory.

JesseGreen:

Mate,that'safabulousstory.Whata...Forayoungboyof18,whatamassiveshotofconfidencethatmust'vegivenyou,becauseeventhoughyou'dhadthatsecondyearofyear12,toreallyputintoyourRugbyLeague,andobviouslyNRLoffers,tobethrustintothat,ontothatenormousstagesoearlyinyourcareer.That'sjustabsolutelybreathtaking,really.

BenIkin:

Itwasspinner.Ifyoucanimagineyourselfcomingoutofuniversity,havingdoneyourdegree,andbeinghandedthekeystoahighlysuccessfuldentalpractice,firstyear,outofuniversity,youcan'thave,youjustfindingyourwaytosuccess,becauseyoudon'tknowwhatyoudon'tknow.

Everythingfromtherewasnew,I'dnotexperiencedbefore.IwasjustluckythatIhadgoodpeoplearoundme.Wonderfulparents,who'vebeenhugelysupportive,prettymuchallowedmetoachieveeverythingthatIhaveinlife.Iwasatagoodclub,withtheGoldCoastSeagulls,withsomeguys,youknow,clubsthatwerecontactingme,makingsureIhadmyheadright,andlikewise,bythetimeIarrivedintheStateofOrigincamp,asI'vealreadymentioned,IwasroomingwithMarkCoyne.FreddyHortonwasthecoach.Hewasfantastic.

He'sbitofajokerbutletmetellyou,thisisavery,verysmartmanthatknewexactlywhatIwasgoingtoexperience,andhowtosellittome.WhenitcomestotheferocityofStateofOriginfootball,andChrisChoppyClosewhotheacademybleedsmaroon,wastheteammangerthatyear,andmyfatheractuallymovedhimacoupletimesintheGoldCoast.Hestucksolowithme,rightthewaythroughthatfirstOriginseries,andeveryseriesthereafter,soitwasimportantformethatIhadthosegreatpeoplearoundme.Theyultimatelyallowedmenot,tobuggeritup,let'sputitthatway.

JesseGreen:

That'sfabulousmate.Obviously,beingpartofmanyofteamsovertheyears,ClubFooty,RepFooty,StateofOrigin,andtheAustralianteam,ofcourse,andnottomentionyourbroadcastingteamsthatyoucurrentlyworkwith,andallthatsortofstuff,aswell.OneofthethingsI'dreallyloveyourperspectiveonisyouknow,whenyouwalkintoateam,aretheresometeamsthatjustfeellikethey'vegotabettervibethanothers,intermsofyouknow,youcanfeelthisisagreatteam,orwe'rereallygoingtokicksomegoalshere,orisityou'vegottotakeitasitcomes?

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BenIkin:

Atthetime,you'vegotasenseofthat.You'vegottobeputinthepressurecookerenvironmenttofindouthowfunctionalyouareasaunit,wholinesup,whodoesn't.Thesearethings,Imeanthatcanbelearnedbyplayinganumberofgamestogether.You'dliketothinkthatyoucansimulatethatsortofsortinthetrainingenvironment,butit'sreallyhard.Imean,that'swhyyouprobablyhearallthosestoriesaboutcoachestakingtheirplayersofftothesearmycamps,forthreeandfivedays.Whatthey'retryingtodoistestingthemasagroup,tryingtobreakthemdown.Seewhobreaks,seewhostaysstrong,seewhotheleadersare,seewhotheworkerbeesare,andyouknow,thereallyexperiencedcoaches,theygetasenseforthatquickerthantheyoungercoaches.

Idon'tthinkitcanbespottedinaninstant.Youcan'twalkintoabusinessatleast,Idon'tknowahellofalotofpeoplewhocan,andgothat'swrong,that'swrong,that'swrong.Thisishowlongit'sgoingtotaketofixit.Heneedstogo,shecanstay.It'sjustnothowithappens.Anythingrushedlikethat,whatIthink'sgoingtobringlongtermsuccessandmytimeinvolvedwithhighperformanceteams,beitinsportorbusiness,youknow,there'skindofthreethingsthatIlandonthatruncommonthroughallofthem,andthatistrust.

Youtrustthepersonbesideyoucandeliver,andhasgotyourback.Alignment,soyou'reallonthesamepage,hittinginthesamedirection,andcertainty,whichissomethingthatgreatleadersdowell.Theyhelppeopleunderstandwheretheysitintheorganization,whattheirroleis,andthiswherewe'reheading,andthisishowwe'regoingtodoit.

Trust,alignmentandcertainty.AsIsay,ittakesabitoftimetounderstandwhetherornotyou'vegottherightteamtodeliverthatmix.

JesseGreen:

That'sfabulousadvice.I'msureanyonelisteningtotheshowtodayisgoingtobewritingthatdown,trust,alignmentandcertainty,becausethatisjustabsolutewisdom,thatcutsthrougheverything.Youspokeaboutthegreatcoachesidentifyingtheleadersandtheworkerbeesfairlyquickly.Intermsofsomeoftheleadersthatyou'vebeenfortunateenoughtoassociatewithinyourfootycareer,andyourbusinesscareeraswell,isthereanyonewhocomestomindassomeoneyouthinkwow,theywerejustoneofthebestofthebest?

BenIkin:

Ithink-look,there'splenty.I'vebeeninvolvedinsomegreatbusinessesandgreatsportingteams,andmorethananything,thisiswhatIcansayforgreatleaders,isthatthey'reallauthentic.They'renotpretendingtobesomeone.It'snotlikethey'vereadtheleadershipbook,andthey'vesortofborrowed,youknowwell,I'vegotnoideathatthey'vepickedupsomegoodhabits,andsomegoodleadershiptraitsalongtheway.Attheendoftheday,theirperson,theircharacterisauthentictothem.It'slikethey'rereallycomfortableintheirownskin.I'vebeencoachedbyWayneBennett,oneofthegreatestofalltime.I'vehadacoupleCEOsthatIwouldputsomewhereuponthesamelevel,buttheyalldoitdifferent.Theyalltreatpeopledifferently.Attheircoreisafewthings,Ithinkthattheyhaveincommon,youknowlike,thattheyallcare.

WayneBennettfromtheoutside,andIlovethisstorybecauseit'ssopersonalforme,togetherwithmymothergrowingup,wedidn'tlikeWayneBennett,becausethatwastheblokewhosackedWileyLewisandneversmiledonTV.YoukindofgetthisfeelingaboutWayne,thathe'scoldandcalculating.Peoplenowknow,havingwatchedthatAustralianstory,andanynumberofinterviewsthathe'sdoneovertheyears,

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that'snotwhoheisatall.Ithinkallthegreatleaders,betheyplayersorCEOs,orcoaches,orchairmanoftheboard,thattheycare.Theycarefortheirpeople.They'vegotgreatempathy.

Secondtothat,IthinkI'vealreadymentionedthisearlieron,isthatthey'vegottheknowledgethattheknowhow.It'sallgoodandwelltohavevisionsandgivegreatspeeches,andcareforyourpeople,butifyoudon'tknowhowtotakeanorganizationandthepeoplethatworkinitforward,becauseyoudon'thavetheknowhow,wellthennoone'sgoingtobefollowing.

JesseGreen:

Yeah,absolutely.Again,thatauthenticitythatyouspokeofearlier,thatreallyfeedsintothetrustthing,aswell,becauseyouknow,what'sthefamoussaying,thatyouknow,Australianscanspotaphonyamileoff.It'strue,onceyou’renotbeingtruetoyourself,itdoestendtounderminethecredibilityandtrustyouhaveinthatleader.

JustonWayneBennettandIknowclearly,youhavearelationshipthatextendsintoyourpersonallife,whichwewon'tgointotoomuch,butIjustwanttoshareonelittlekickystoryaboutWayneBennettthatIexperienced,andthisisgoingtosoundsotrivialtoyou,perhaps,becauseyou'vehadsomanyofthem,butasyouknow,whereIusedtoliveinBrisbane,downatthelocalshopssales,walkingmykidshomefromschool,andweneededtocrossattheshops,andthepedestriancrossingwasnowheretobeseen,andanyway,asIwaswalkingacrossthecrossing,Ihadschoolbagsandonechildononearm,andontheotherendofthatchildwasmysecondchild,andWaynewalkedoutofthelocalbarbershop,andBenyou'vemetme,I'mquiteashortguy,andWayne'squiteatallguy.

WhatInoticedwithBenishevisiblychangedhisstridetobookendmyotherdaughteraswecrossedtheroad.I'veneverforgottenit.Idon'tknowWaynefromabarofsoap,butit'ssomethingthat'sjustalwaysstuckwithme,andIreallyappreciateditatthetime.Heseemslikeareallygenuinely,goodguy.

BenIkin:

Heisyeah,andthebiggerquestiononthatiswhatwashedoinginthebarber?

JesseGreen:

He'sgotnohair!Youcanmakethatjoke,mate.I'llgivethatonetoyoutotakehome,andsharewithhim.

BenIkin:

Thankyou.

JesseGreen:

Mate,Ijustwantedtotouchonadayinthelifeofaprofootballer.Wespokeaboutsomeofthethingsthatyou'vebeenthrough,andalltherestofit,butwhataresomeofthehabitsyougetinto?Youmentionedthattheknowhowisnotnecessarilytransferableintobusinessbecausesomeofthoseskills,butsomewont'be,thosehabitsthatyoudevelopedatayoungage,developingasafootball,obviouslyandthenintotheclubsettingandthenlaterintotheStateofOriginAustralianteams,andbeyond,whatwouldbesomeofthosehabitsthatyouthinkaprofessionalfootballerwouldpickupthattheymightnotnecessarilyrealizethey'repickingup,butholdthemingoodsteadastheygothrough.

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BenIkin:

There'safew,I'dstartwithselfbelief,becausethelifeofaprofessionalsportsmanissopublic,somanypeoplewatching,andhavinganopinionaboutwhoyouare,andwhatyoudo,nottomentionthemediaandtheslicingandthedicingofwhatyoudoonthefield,thathappenseveryotherweekofthefootyseason.Selfbeliefiskey.Itcan'tbefalse,youknowwhatImean?Youcan'tliveinafool'sparadise.Youneedtobelievewhatthecoachesaskyoutodo,thechallengethatliesinfrontofyou,youabsolutely,areabletoachieveit,becauseifyoudon't,it'stootoughacontest.It'stootoughacompetitiontosurviveinifyoustartsecondguessingyourself.

WhenIrolledoutofprofessionalsport,theonethingItookwithmewasthatjustaboutanythingthatIwasaskedtodo,Iwouldsay"yes,I'llgiveitacrack,"becauseIwassousedtobuildinganarmouryofselfbelieftogetthroughthekind,thepressureandtheexpectationoftheNRLseason.

Theotherthingthatunderpinseverythingyoudoasaprofessionalathlete,ishardwork.It'ssototallyeffortforreward.Youcan'ttakeshortcuts.Ithinkinbusiness,perhapsI'venoticedthatyoucan,andalotofpeopledo,butinsport,youjustgetfoundout.There'stoomanyeyes,there'stoomanypeoplewatching.You'vegotmultiplecoaches,andagain,acompetitiontootoughthatifyouaretakingshortcuts,youwillgetfoundout.You'vegottobuildthathabitofcontinuedhardwork.

Awillingnesstolearnandimprove,youknow.Wealwayswanttobebettertomorrow,thanwearetoday.That'stheotherthingthatprofessionalsportdoesreallywell,isthatwe'resurroundedbymentors.That'snotsomethingthatbusinessdoesallthatwell.WhichIhope,whichyou'llhopefullyachievethroughthispodcast,isthatthemanagersandtheleadersinbusiness,aregenerallyfocusedonthedoingofthings,andgettingotherpeopletodothings,whereasinprofessionalsport,yougetcoachedandmentoredeveryweek,yougetfeedbackonwhatyoudidwell,andwhatyoudidn'tdosowell.You'vegotthisteamofpeoplehelpingyouimprove,becausethecoachknowsthatheisnomorethanthesumtotaloftheeffortsofhisplayers.

You'vegotalongwaytofindleadersandmanagers,seniorexecutivesinbusiness,thatwhollyembracethatphilosophy.Forme,gettingoutofsportintobusiness,whatIlearnedwasthefeedbackloop,wasnowherenearascomprehensive.Mostofthetimeinbusiness,nonewsisgoodnews.Ikindofhadtogenerate,whereverIwent,myownfeedbackloop,becauseIwascontinuallyaskingquestionsabouthowIcouldbebetter.Youdon'tgetthatsortofinformation.

Thereareprobablythethreethings-selfbelief,hardwork,andawillingnesstolearnandimprove.

JesseGreen:

Mate,they'refabulouslessonsforlife,andclearlyagain,they'veheldyouingoodstead.Asyoutransitionedoutofplayingfootyandintoyourotherroles,youforaperiodtime,wereoneofthe,IthinkyouwereaboardmemberofthecowboysupinNorthQueensland,andwhatsortoftransitionwasthatlike?Youspokeaboutthehabitsthatstoodyouingoodsteadthroughoutlifeingeneral,butwhatwasitlikesteppingontotheotherside,thecorporatesideIsupposeoffooty,ifyouwill,orthebusinessdecisionmakingbehindfooty,howdidthatgo?

BenIkin:

Itwasfantastic,Ilovedit.Youknow,I'vehadafairbitofcorporateexperiencebythetimeIjumpedonboardattheCowboys,butthethingIlikedaboutmy21/2yearsupthereinNorthQueensland,wasbeing

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involvedinthatprocessofplanningforsuccess.WehadthisconversationstartednotlongsortofbeforeIarrived,buttheywerecertainlygettingitgoing,aboutwhowewantedtobeandhowweweregoingtogetthere.Youknow,inbroaderterms,therewasthiskindofgoalthatwewantedtobethebestrugbyleagueclubinthecountry,andifweweren'tpreparedtoputthatupastheirgoal,thenwhatwerewedoing?Thatultimatelymeant,winacomp!Togothroughthatprocess,withsomeverysmartpeople,sofigureoutwherewewere,wherewewantedtobe,andhowweweregoingtogetthere,whoweneededtotakeonthejourney,howweengagedthem,wassomethingthatI'llneverforget.Iguessit'saprocessthat'snowingrainedinme,thatIcannotonlytaketothenextorganizationthatIworkfor,butIcanalsoapplytomypersonlife.Thatisagain,planningforsuccess.WhereamInow?WheredoIwanttobe?WhatdoIneedtodotogetthere?

JesseGreen:

Mate,that'sjustfabulous,andasyou'vegonethroughyourcareer,clearly,that'sthethingthat'srunningthrough.What'sthenextadventureforBenIkin,doyouthink?

BenIkin:

I'mraisingafamilyatthemoment,asyouknow.I'vegotalovelywifeandfourkids,whoareallsortofhittingmiddleschool,theyneedmetobearoundandpresent,whichisimportanttome,atthemomentI'mjusttryingtostrikemybalance.I'vegotawonderfuljobatFoxSports.IhostashowcalledNRL360.FoxSports,magnificentemployees.IflydownfromBrisbane,sothey'reveryaccommodatinginthatway,atpresent,allIreallywanttodoisproducequalityTV,somakeNRL360thebestshowitcanbe.WhenI'mnotatwork,justmakesureI'mathomeandtickingalltheboxes.That'saboutasexcitingasitgetsformeatthemoment,Jesse,whichImustsayisprettyfun.

JesseGreen:

Itisfun,mate,andit'saboutsuccessforthatfulfilmentisprobablyabitoffailureinasense,really,becausethatwholefamilylifeissocritical.

Asyouwereplayingfooty,Iknowyou'veprobablyhadyourkindspostfootyortowardstheendofyourfootiecareer,wereyouawareofthecompetingdemandsoffootyandyourpersonallifeatanypoint,orindeedyourbusinessdemandsandyourpersonallife,andhowdidyoumanagethosethings?

BenIkin:

NotsuchmuchRugbyLeague,Imeanit'syougetalotofdowntime,asaprofessionalleagueplayer,whichaffordsyouawholestackoftimetospendwithyourfamily.BythetimeIretired,Ionlyhadtheoneson,I'vegottwosonsandtwodaughters,IguessthebalancingactbecamemoreimportantformewhenIpushedintocorporatelife.Iendedupinacoupleofnationalsalesroles,intheconstructionindustry,doingalotoftravelanddoingmymediacommitmentsontheside.Icouldworksometimesupto50-60hoursaweekwhenyouthrowinthetravel.Atsomepoint,somethingwasgoingtogive.I'vejustsortofscaledbacknow.I'vebeenluckyenoughnottohavetoworkcorporatelyanymore.IworkforFoxSportsfulltime.It'sasortofsevenmonthayeargig.I'vegotalotoftimeoff.Thebalancehascome,justbyvirtueofthefactofthejobthatIdo.Look,I'mabsolutelycertainthatI'minthetiniestofminorities,whenIlookatmyworkschedule.

Foryoutostrikeabalance,andthisisthepointIgottowhenIwasworking50-60hoursaweek,itneedstobeimportanttoyou.Youcan'thavehalfacrackatit.Ifyoudecideyouwanttospendmoretimewithyourfamily,thenyoualmost,itsoundssilly,butyoualmostneedtodiarizeit,otherwise,ifyou'renotscheduling

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familythesamewayyou'reschedulingmeetingsorworkcommitments,thentheyendupbecomingsecondary,becauseifyoudiary,ifyouallowyourdiarytobefilledwithwork,itcanhappenrealeasily.That'sthethingIfoundout,soIhavetomakeareallysterncommitmentthatIwasgoingtochange.Iwasgoingtostrikesomesortofbalance,andthengoafteritwithasmuchrigorasIdideverythinginmyprofessionallife.

JesseGreen:

Mate,that'safabulouspoint,andanyoftheguysthatIworkwithwhoarelisteningwillknowthatthat'sthedrumthatIbeatprettyloudly,thatschedulingfamilytime,andmakingitpartofyourroutine.It'ssortcriticaltotakechargeofyourtime.It'ssoeasyfortimetobefritteredawayonthingsthatarenotalwaysofthehighestimportanceintermsofyourhighestvalues,andwhatnot.

Justalittlestory,IdidactuallyschedulesometimewithMiranda,mywife,andIhavelearnedthelessonthen,Ilearnedthatitisgoodtoschedulethetimewithmywife,it'sprobablyjustnothelpfulformetotellherthatIhavescheduledthetime.Itdidn'tgosowell.Anyway,that'sgood,soyes,definitely.

BenIkin:

Yourwife'sgottobemorethanjustadiaryentry,doesn't'she,Jesse?

JesseGreen:

Shereallydoes,andformydarlingwifewhomightbelisteningtonight,that'sfabulous,we'llgetthatsorted.Mate,Iwantedto,aswe'rewrappingupourinterviewtoday,andfirstly,thankyoufortakingthetimetocomeandhaveatalktous,wantedtotalktoyouaboutoneortwolittlethings,justoutsideoffootyforasecond,justabitofgeneralinfo,aboutBenIkin,mateifyouwerehostingabarbecue,oradinnerparty,orgettingagroupofpeoplearoundforameal,whowouldbethehalfadozenofpeopleorso,thatyou'dmostliketohavearoundyourtable,thatyoudon'talreadygetanopportunitytoseeonadaytodaybasis?

BenIkin:

That'sabigquestion,sodeadoralive?

JesseGreen:

Yeah,deadoralive.

BenIkin:

OK,well,I'mfascinatedwithreligioushistory,fascinated.I'dhavetosaymaybe,JesusChrist.Isthattoobig?CanIharehimalong?

JesseGreen:

Youcanhavehimalong.

BenIkin:

SAVVY DENTIST PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

© The Sageman Trust

I'mnon-religious,butIwouldjustlovetoknowwhatwasgoingonbackthen.Whoelse?

JesseGreen:

Youcanhavehis12apostlestooifyoulike.

BenIkin:

Yeah,right,I'mamassiveRichieBenaudfan,he'salsoleftist.I'venevergotthechancetomeetRichie,butI'vebeenagreatadmirerofhiswork.I'dlovetositdownandsay"listen,I'dlovetohaveacareerlikeyours.Whatwerethethingsthatyougotright,tohavethecareerthatyoudid."

Lovemygolf,Iamagolftragic.Iwouldsay,itwouldbeanequalsplitbetweenGregNormanandAdamScottandJasonDay.Theyallcountasonepersonbytheway.I'mnotlosingseats.

JesseGreen:

That'sallright,youcanhaveasmanyseatsasyouwant,mate.

BenIkin:

IalsolovemyRugbyLeaguehistory.Iknowandunderstandhowmuchthegamehasgivenme,andthattherewasmanypeoplegobeforemethatmadethegameasgreatasitwas,soI'dhavetogobackto1907/1908whenthegamewasfounded,andinvitealongthegreatDellyMessenger.

JesseGreen:

Wow,that'scool.

BenIkin:

HewasthekeytoRugbyLeagueinthiscountry,andI...there'sprobablyastackofRugbyLeaguefansoutthere,butifthepeoplewhosetupRugbyLeagueinAustralia,don'tsignDellyMessenger,thenwe'reprobablynothavingthisconversation.

JesseGreen:

Wow,OK,that'sphenomenal.

BenIkin:

Isthatgoodlist?

JesseGreen:

That'sagreatlist,that'saninterestinglist.I'dlovetohearthedinnerconversationwiththatgroupofguys.Thatwouldbereally,reallyinteresting.

Quickquestionforyou,aroundthatgroupofguys,goingbacktoyourgolf,yousaidyou'regolftragic.Whatdoyouplayoffthesedays,mate?How'sthehandicapgoing?

SAVVY DENTIST PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

© The Sageman Trust

BenIkin:

I'mplayingoff9,IhavebeenlowerandIhavebeenhigher.I'llputitthisway.TheamountofgolfIplay,Ishouldbemuch,muchbetter.Ithinkifyougoandaskmostgolfersaroundtheworld,they'dsayexactlythesamething.Nomatterhowgoodyougetatgolf,youalwayswanttobebetter.It'smygreatfrustration.

JesseGreen:

It'sinteresting,I'malwaysinvitedalongtothegolfcoursejusttomakeeveryoneelselookgood,mate.That'smyroleonthegolfcourse.

Anotherquickquestionforyoumate,ifyouhadafavouritebook,you'reallowedtotakeahandfulofbooks,oneortwobookswithyouwhereveryougo,whattheybe?Whatbookshavemovedyouorinspiredyoumost?

BenIkin:

Look,againI'maloverofreligioushistory,soI'vereadalotofbooks.IlovetheTaoTeChingwrittenbyLaoTsu,whichwasthetextthatsortofunderpinnedTaoism.Ilovebusinessliterature.MyfavouritebusinessbookisGOODTOGROW,byJimCollins.

JesseGreen:

Greatbook.

BenIkin:

SomethingthatI'vereadrecently...I'lltellyouwhatI'vereadrecently,thatIcouldnotputdown.ItwasVladimirPutin'sbiography.

JesseGreen:

Really?

BenIkin:

WhatIunderstandofEuropeanpoliticsorcommunistpolitics,andtolookatRussiaandtheSovietUnion,throughthelifeofVladimirPutin,wasjustawakeningforme,andjustgoestothepointthattherearesomanydifferentpeoplearoundtheworld,thatseetheworldsodifferently,fromthewaywedo.There'ssomelessonsinthereonleadershipofwhattodoandwhatnottodo.Ifoundthatintriguing.

IjustgotforChristmas,whichI'menjoyingaswell,thebookthatPaulKeatingdidwithKerryO’Brien,it'sfantastic.

JesseGreen:

Iwillhavetoduckoutandgetthat.Thisisgoingtosoundlikeabookclubreview,isn'tit?I'llhavetotellyou,mate,myfavouritebookinthelastcoupleofweekshasbeenTEAMSOFTEAMSbyGeneralStanleyMcCrystal.It'sacrackingread.Putthatonyourshoppinglist,foryourbooks.It'sanawesomeread.

SAVVY DENTIST PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

© The Sageman Trust

BenIkin:

Absolutely.

JesseGreen:

Cool,Benthankssomuchfortakingthetimetocomeontheshowtoday.Ireallyenjoyedhavingaconversationwithyou.Mate,yourstoryandyourhistory,yourknowledgeofthegameisobviouslyoutstanding.WhatI'vereallyenjoyedlisteningtoIthinkmorethananythingisthelittlenuggetsthatringtrueforallofus.Notallofus,veryfewofus,playfootyforacareer,buteverythingyou'vespokentousissorelevantandpertinenttolife,mate.Ireallythankyoufortakingthetimeoutofyourdaytocomeandspeaktous.It'sbeengreat.

BenIkin:

MypleasureJesse.