Nuestra Familia Diazde Tlaltenango, Zacatecas

Vicente, Vicente Ferrer, y Mauricio

• I have reasons to believe that Juan Jose Diaz was really named Jose Francisco Diaz. I will give my evidence and time will tell if I am right or if I am wrong. If it’s true that Juan Jose is really Jose Francisco then his parents are Vicente Ferrer Diaz and Maria del Carmen Rodriguez.

Josseph Vissente Diaz our GGGG Grandfather

Let’s Look at Vicente’s first marriage to Maria Hipolita Caciana Rivas

Jose Diaz/Maria de la Concepcion Castaneda

Vicente did not good grasp on his father’s first name. . .from his first to his last child his father was simply referred to as Jose Diaz.

Marcos Diaz 05May1800. . .”No supo dar razon.”

Los Gemelos: JoseTadeo Diaz3 Nov 1793

Eustaquia Diaz-05May1805Abuelos: Concepcion Castaneda

Maria de los Relles Diaz-19Jan1807Jose Diaz/Maria de la Consepcion

Jose Matias Diaz-06Aug1809Jose Diaz/Maria Castaneda

Claudio Diaz 25Feb1816Josse Diaz/Maria de la Concepcion Castaneda

Now Let’s look at Vicente’s brother: Mauricio Diaz’ children. Mauricio married Paulina Rivas (she was the sister to Vicente’s wife Hipolita Rivas). . .first

let’s look at their marriage record

Rudecinda Diaz-4Mar1804;Jose Diaz/Concepcion Castaneda

Maria Faviana Diaz-Feb1805Jose Diaz/Concepcion Castaneda

Expectacion Diaz-22Dec1805Abuelos Paternos: Maria Concepcion

Jose Luciano Diaz-31May1808Jose Diaz/Maria Concepcion

Maria Aniceta Diaz-23Apr1809Jose Diaz/Maria Concepcion Castaneda

Jose Matias Diaz-3Mar1811Jose Diaz/Maria Concepcion

So when did we first see the name Juan Jose Diaz?

• This marriage record for Vicente Diaz to Basilia Marquez is the first and only mention of Juan Jose Diaz. The record was dated 25 May 1844 and it says that Vicente was 63 years old thus making him born in 1781. Again it states he was originally from Coculiten, Tlaltenango, Zacatecas and that he was a widower from his first marrige to Hipolita Rivas.

• So from 1793-1844 there is no record of a Juan Jose Diaz.

• If Vicente Diaz’ memory was correct and he was 63 and then we have a bit of a problem with his first marriage. If he was born in 1781 then he would have been 12 years old when he married Hipolita Rivas in 1793.

• Possible yes. . .most likely NO!

Let’s also look at another time that Vicente probably gave erroneous

information: the 1817 Census

• Here we see that Vicente Diaz age is given as 38 years old. That would have meant he was born in 1779 or making him 14 years old when he was married in 1793. We’re getting closer to his age but his memory is still suspect.

• If you look at the baptism record for Josseph Vissente Diaz born in Coculiten to Josseph Francisco Diaz and Maria de la Concepcion Castaneda we find that his birth date was the 13 October 1770. This would make him a very mature 23 years old when he got married to our GGGG grandmother Hipolita Rivas. A easier age for us to comprehend.

Vicente Ferrer Diaz/Ana Maria Guzman

• Let’s examine the information on the 3rd brother, Vicente Ferrer Diaz, that I believe is pivotal in proving the point that Juan Jose Diaz really is Jose Francisco Diaz.

• He had a large family of 9 children and again in every record his parents are listed simply as Jose Diaz and Maria de la Concepcion Castaneda.

Maria Magdalena Diaz-26July1808Jose Diaz/Concepcion Castaneda

Maria de los Santos Diaz-12Nov1809Jose Diaz/Maria Concepcion

Maria Timotea Diaz-02Feb1812Jose Diaz/Maria Concepcion Castaneda

Timoteo/Timotea Diaz-03Sept1815Josse Diaz/Maria Concepcion Castaneda

Maria Alvina Diaz-23Dec1819Josse Diaz/Maria Concepcion Castaneda

Jose Julian Diaz-27Dec1821Jose Diaz/Maria Concepcion Castaneda

Jose Eulogio Diaz-20Mar1824Jose Diaz/Maria Concepcion Castaneda

How Do We Really Know that Vicente Ferrer was a brother?

• We don’t but we just examined many baptism record showing strong evidence

• Some might think that Vicente Ferrer was Vicente, but we know this is not true because records indicate Vicente Ferrer died between 1824 and 1837 while Vicente died in 1849.

This is the 1849 death record for ourGGGG grandfather Vicente Diaz. Here

it mentions that his father was named Juanbut that information was given by

those remaining and probably remembered from his marriage just 5 years before.

We know they all lived together inSalto de los Romeros, Jalisco

• Jose Vicente lived there from at least 1807-1816 when Maria Relles, Matias and Claudio were born

• Mauricio lived there from at least 1808-1809, but probably through 1811 when Luciano and Aniceta were born.

• Vicente Ferrer lived there from at least 1808-1819 when Magdalena, Maria Santos, Timoteo, Timotea and Alvina were born.

Los Padrinos• From my studies the Padrinos were given

the serious responsibility of making sure the child was given the correct spiritual upbringing. With this being such an important job that would be a lifetime responsibility the choice was often made among blood relatives.

• We have two examples where both Mauricio and Vicente’s son, Thadeo and his wife, Hipolita Rivas were Padrinos for Vicente Ferrer’s children.

In this record we examined earlier we see that Mauricio Diaz and

Paulina Rivas were the padrinos.

Here in this record for the gemelos: Timoteo/Timotea Diaz we find that for the boy child the padrinos were Thadeo Diaz

and his mother Hipolita Caciana.

A Question To Ask

• Do we have any Records available previous to this first mention of Juan Jose Diaz on the 1844 second marriage of Vicente Diaz and his 1849 death certificate?

The answer is yes! Here we have the 1806 Marriage Record for

Vicente Ferrer Diaz and Ana Maria Guzman

• The “coincidences” are to many to ignor. This 1806 document clearly establishes that the parents of Vicente Ferrer Diaz were Francisco Diaz and Maria de la Concepcion Castaneda.

• Since Vicente Ferrer Diaz was brother to Jose Vicente Diaz and Mauricio Diaz we have it that their parents were also Francisco Diaz and Maria de la Concepcion Castaneda.

So let’s go directly to the marriage of Francisco Diaz and

Maria de la Concepcion Castaneda

This is the first page of their marriage on 7 June 1767 in Cuculiten, Zac.

This is the second page. Notice the parents: Vissente Diaz y Maria Rodriguez our

GGGGGG Grandparents

Joseph Francisco Diaz-24 Aug 1738

Just a quick note about Lugarda Diaz. She married a brother to Concepcion Castaneda and they moved to the Colotlan area. In this record of the

baptism of their granddaughter Theodocia we see that Vicente Diaz and Hipolita Caciana Diaz

were the padrinos.

Here we see a younger sister of Francisco Diaz named Clofia born 01 Oct 1752

Bicente Diaz/Maria del Carmen Rodriguez

M.Guadalupe Diaz-03July1741

Michaela Rosalia Diaz-04June1744

Sesilia Diaz-07Dec1750

Santiago Diaz-08Aug1754

A look at Vicente Ferrer Diaz’ second marriage after Maria del Carmen Rodriguez died, page 1

Page 2

The 1754 padron from Tlaltenango