Dialogue Before Death

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DIALOGUE BEFORE DEATHTranscript from a tape record i ng of anEnglish-language conversation betweenDan Mitrione and an unidentified UruguayanTupamaro, August 1970

a squir reipublication


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SR1t:iJURL

DIALOGUE BEFORE DEATHTranscript from a tape recording of anEnglish-language conversation betweenDan Mitrione and an unidentif ied UruguayanTupamaro, August 1970

@ Squirrel Publications 1971


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Squirre l Publications -Editor ial Ardil la1240 National Press BuildingWashington, D.C. 20004

Price: $3.00 per copy,or the equivalent inany foreign money


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EDITOR'S NOTE

On July 31, 1970, Dan Mitrione, a public safety advisorthe U.S. Embassy in Montevideo, was kidnapped by Uruguayanr i s t s , who ca l l themselves "Tupamaros. H Shortly af t er~ s capture, he was wounded, though not fa ta l ly .

Sometime during the ten days which he spent in the custodythe Tupamaros, Mitrione was in terrogated. The in terrogat ion .

~ S carr ied out in English by an unident i f ied Tupamaro.Offic ia l U.S. sources believe that Mitrione was unawarehe was being taped. The same sources, however, believe~ t the tape recording, copies of which were subsequentlyeased to the press by the Tupamaros, is authentic. Tran-s of port ions of the in terrogat ion have been published inish-lan'guagenewspapers. The entire t ex t of a Spanish

a g e t rans la t ion of the tape made by the Tupamaros, has been-- l ished in some Spanish-language newspapers.But so fa r as the edi tors of Squirrel Publicat ions have

en able to determine, this is t he f i r s t publication to includefu l l text of the in terrogat ion in the original English, as

-a ined from of t ic ia l U.S. sources.The information in parentheses in the tex t has been includedc l a r i fy meaning, or to ident i fy references. Such data is

s e on having l i s tened to the tape, which i s i t se l f of unevend qual i ty , or on having compared passages of doubtful mean

~ wi th the Spanish-language t rans la t ion which the Tupamaros _e available to press media.Mitrione 's corpse was found on the morning of August 11thhe back seat of a Chevrolet convertible abandoned in a

s ident ia l section of Montevideo. During h is actual assassina-n , he suffered three addit ional bul le t wounds, two through thea d and one through the back and hear t .

Subsequently, the Uruguayan government has indicted severalaros for having been implicated in the conspiracy to kidnap- r i o n e , and they are awaiting t r i a l .

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2Mi t r ione - - and because I re 'rnember some people from Iran

and Tunisia and those places over twenty years ago.Tupamaro Did they learn much?M t r ione Well, they learned some of the things. They can ' tlearn everything. They can ' t use everything they learn ,be-cause socie t ies are differentTu pamaro I agree with tha t .

i t r ione . . . but the main thing is they learn possiblybet ter ways or newer ways t ~ do things.

Tupamaro What kind of things?i t r ione Ah . . . urn

Tu pamaro And have you been chief of police or something?M t r ione Yes, I was chief of police.Tu pamaro I heard tha t you were. Where was that?.i t r ione In Indiana Tu pamaro Indiana?

i t r ione Ind:!ana, yes.Tu pamaro Is i t a large sta te?

i t r ione No, well about four million pcpulat ion . . four anda half mill ion.pamaro

i t r ioneChief ofTu pamaro

i tri ' :meTu pamaro

i t r ioneupamaro

Is i t hard to be chief?Well, I wasn't bhief of the s ta te police.police in a ci ty in tha t State . . .Oh, I see.

I was

And my ci ty was only about 50,000 population.And which ci ty was i t?Richmond.Richmond, and how i s i t? Is i t di f f i cu l t work?

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3__e - - No . No. I t ' s pleasurable work. I t ' s to me , i t ' s----5a:L.e th ing a s a school teacher -and thepeople who picked-=_e asu ra (Spanish fo r ."garbage "). I t I S a l i t t l e b it of

- =:r-.:-_ing around the ci ty . Some people work in a factory.- rk in the fresh a i r . I t a l l depends. But police w o r ~- : l t t le b it different in many instances; but i t ' s a goodLi f e there i s not too bad (But I l e f t that job someag , now.)

And i t was too long ago?When I was chief?Yes.In 1960 I l e f t there

-=:::aro 1960, w ~ l l things have changed now.Oh, yeah. (Followed by laughter)

-2::aro Probably now you have a different kind of work from. g a chief of police in the States .. ne - - Altogether dif fe ren t . Altogether different . You

- ---:::-oe r igh t .There are different kinds of work for the police?Yeah.And you know things change, and how about your work

-riQne -- I was an asesor (Spanish for lladvisor"). I worked~ ~ the i n t e r io r of Brazi l . I worked with whom? I was ana dvi sor to the mil i tary pol ice . And we worked on t ra ining.

= ama ro Oh, I see.2 ~ r i o n You know how the police work in Brazi l and in-ruguay and many things . . . how they walk, how a policeman 'alk s when he i s on duty. (We t ry) to teach them a way t hati l l be bet ter for them. Better for everybody, to walk a: i t t le more . . how to stand. .

amaro - - Have you been in the jungle t hen?


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4TU",;"rione - - No, no, not tha t kind of walking. And '11.).0 also t ryto teach them bet ter ma"ntenance, be t t e r maintenance of equip-

ment.Tu pamaro

weapons.Mitrione

Yes, well you know we s tole about seven hundred

Yes, I know.Tupamaro They (apparently a reference to the Uruguayan pol i 'ce )cannot take care of them, and seme were very badly . . you kno-'Mitrione Dirty?Tupamaro Oh, yes, a l ~ dir ty . We had to work a lo t to put the rrin conditions ( s ic) , you know a l l these guns . . .Mitrione yes.Tupamaro But the guns (apparently means II revo l vers 11 ) ~ J e r e a l l

r ight , but the long (apparently II sma l l " ) arms you know ....MitrioneTupamaro

good now.Mitrione

They weren1t taken care of, huh?We have to do i t now , because we have them pret ty

I'll bet .T u p a ~ Fortunately. And how about your work in Uruguay?Tell me.Mitrione -- I t1s about the same, it's about the same, we havean office in the Jefatura (Spanish fvr "the police headquart.ers" . . . and we work with the Ministry of In ter ior and the c h e fof pol ice , the head of the Jefa t ura, and we work on communications in the in ter ior you know, for the s ta tes in the in

t e r io r , a basic network. And they (apparently, refers to the UUguayan police) bring in automobiles for police cars , butUruguay buys them, (not us) .Tupamaro Oh, I see.Mitrione On the radios it's f i f ty - f i f ty (meaning Uruguaypays

hal f , the U.S. half ) on some, but on others, Uruguay buysthem a l l .

Tupamaro I see.


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5I think the Uruguayan police learn very fas t ,- ' ey not ?- - Oh, I don' t know. I think the Uruguayan, the Uruyoung man is a pret ty smart y>ung man. I . think he j"s

_ - ~ e r than any place else in Latin America, because of yeur~ J d educat ien system here . ._2:B.ro Ye s .

- ~ ! ne Because you have s ~ h o o l s and the other th ings , I~ ~ ~ (what) is wrong is maybe the desire. You now need a l i t - :e mo r e wil l and desire to do a bet ter job~ r o Yes.

~ ~ ' o n And because they (apparently refers to Uruguayanernment) don ' t pay very much and that would help i f they~ a i d ( t he police) a l i t t l e more.

:::.=aro - - And what can you say about those guys l ike Moran~ 2 . r q u e r o and a l l that? (reference to Hector Romeo Moran Char_ ero , Assistant Deputy Director of the Invest igat ions Divis

! r: of the Uruguayan pol ice . Moran Charquero was assassinated~ _ r i 13th, 1970, as he was leaving his home).

- - I didn ' t knGw Moran Charquero too well , and I neverwith him. I met him when he went to the States cause=-ent to the a i rpor t to say goodbye and when he came back: saw him. But I never worked with Moran Charquero o r with . wh a t was the other man's name from Canelones (Uruguayan-own about 20 miles inland from Montevidee) tha t went to=h 01 at the same time.

=-.: amaro Legnani?_ - r io ne Who? No, ne, Legnani is the chief up t h e r ~ , thehe r one, the one who went for t ra ining with Charquero a t

- he same time.=_ amaro Oh, I see, I can ' t remember his name._ - r i o n I can ' t e i the r . I didn ' t work with any of these men.=knew them when I saw them,you know, and I never worked with

_y individual pol ice , because I worked in the administrat ivepar t .oamaro And in which department?


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Mitr ioneTupamaroMitr ione

6Well , I wt1rked in my off i ce in the Embassy.Oh.I spent 99 percent of my t ime in the Embassy

Tupamaro Yes, I th ink my mates know t ha t because theylvebeen checking everything about you fo r a long t ime .

Mit r ione - - Meaning your who?Third voice Mates.Tupamaro My f r i ends .Mitr ione Oh, yes , about me you mean?Tupamaro Yes.Mitr ione You' l l f ind out t ha t I spent most of my t ime in the

wel l , I haven ' t been in the Je fa tu ra to be exact fo r twoand a ha l f weeks, maybe three weeks.Tupamaro - - There, you have a place to park your ca r , down there

in the garage , I know.Mitr ione At the Je fa tu ra?Tupamaro Yes.Mitr ione That ' s not fo r me, t ha t ' s fo r the o ther ase-sores(Spanish fo r fladvisorsfl).Tupamaro Who are they?Mitr ione We have three o ther men here .Tupamaro Who are they?Mitr ione Well , you know t h e i r names, don ' t you? Well I th ink

you know t h e i r names.Tupamaro - - Yes, I do know. But you knOVJ we change the place- - (apparent ly means "we have changed places ll ). Now I 'm the po l icMitr ione Ha, ha.Tupamaro No, you should t e l l me the names, r ea l l y .


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Mitrione I should te l l you the names?Tupamaro Yes, please.Mitrione What advantage would they be? "Tupamaro Just to know that you are rea l ly will ingMitrione Well, there i s no need for me to l ie because youhave the i r f lan1S. One man's name is Martinez, Richard Mar-

t inez , another man's name is Richard Biava, another one isLee Echols.Tupamaro One of them is Cuban, i sn ' t he?Mitrione No, l\1exican.Tupamaro Mexican?Mitrione Mexican. Yes, Mexican descent. He is from theUnited States .Tupamaro - - Muy Bien (Spanish for' "okay").the Uruguayan government wil l behave now?

you think t hey ' l l do?Mitrione About me?

And how do you thinkYou know, what do I

Tupamaro You don' t know the others who are in prison now.We have some of you (apparent reference to two others whowere kidnapped short ly af ter Mitrione: Claude Fly, a U.S.agricul tural consultant with the Embassy in Montevideo; andAloyzio Dias Gomide, Brazil ian consul in Montevideo).

Mitrione Well, I hope they, I hope they bargain with you.Tupamaro Yes, we hope i t too. We don' t l ike i t , you know.

We don' t l ike this mess.Mitrione Yeah.Tupamaro We're te r r ib ly sorry about your wound, you know,but we had to do i t .Mitrione That was a mistake, I think.Tupamaro Yes, yes,we are making an investigation about tha t .


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. {t ' .

8Mi t r ione I don ' t know why he shot me. I r ea l l y don ' t . ' I walaying on the f l o o r of the t ruck .Tupamaro Yeahj we are t ry ing to f ind out and there i s a l -

ready people t ry ing 'to f ind out t ha t . You know who your reommate i s ' hereMit r ione - - No, I do not . I know I heard you c a l l him "consul "( reference to Aloyzio Dias Gomide, kidnapped Braz i l i an Consul )Tupamaro Yes, he i s with you.Mitr ione No, I don ' t know him.Tupamaro Well , ah , and how about your government , w h a t wi l l ,

they do?Mitr ione - - I , you know, I cannot answer t ha t . I t h i n k t h ~ ~the government wi l l def in i t e ly t a lk to the Uruguayan govern

ment and ask them t o in t e rcede , but I don' t know j u s t, whatthey can do. I don ' t know what the pact i s . I have 'no idea .Tupamaro - - But you th ink they wil l do some pres su r ing , don ' t

you? They should , a t l ea s t . Mitr i one - - I would hope so , def in i t e ly hope so . I would guess

tha t they would say yes , to please put some pressure or dosomething.Tupamaro Yes, we hope so . We've done it in our country.Mitr ione That ' s r i gh t . How long wi l l s ~ m e t h i n g l ike t h i st 8.ke , (do) you lknow?Tupamaro Eh?Mitr ione How long would a s i t ua t ion l i ke t h i s take? - - - -Tupamaro Well , tha t doesn ' t concern u s, you knvw. We haveeverything prepared to have you months here , here and in

d i f f e r e n t p laces , but we hope to , you know, to do it shvr t .That ' s for , t ha t ' s fo r the bes t of everybody.

Mitr ione I hope so .Tupamaro We also want our f r i ends free ( r e f e r ~ n c e to im-prisoned Tupamaros).Mitr ione - - Yes.


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9Tupamaro You de r s tand th a t?Mitrione I unders tand yes .

,. .Tupamaro Probably, the ~ o v e r n m e n t wi l l do some pressure .Some of the people , who i s now in prison with ' you, i s rea limportant . We th ink t ha t you are very impor tant , too , r ea l l y .so .

Mitr ione ~ - I hope somebody th inks so .Tupamaro Yes, probably (you) WOUld. Well , now t e l l me some-

th ing about CIA. You know we l ike James Bond. About theCIA, what can y o ~ say?

Mitr ione , - - Well , you know you are not going to bel ieve me,and no mat te r what, what , ah, ah , I have to convince you tha tI know nothing about the CIA - - abso lu te ly nothing about theCIA.

Tupamaro About the FBI?Mitr ione FBI? I know very much about the FBI because Igraduated from t h e i r academy.Tupamaro I see .Mitr ione I know everyth ing . Well , ri'o t everyth ing . I know

l o t s about the FBITupamaro What are the names of FBI i n o the r departments of . . .Mitr ione Well , one ~ f the reasons why I know a lo t aboutthe FBI ( i s ) because the FB I i s very open . . a very openinformat ion gather ing , i nves t iga t ion depar tment . There you have agents a l l o v e r the United Sta tes and they work r i gh t in . ,with the pol ice departments . However, the FBI i s only al low-ed to work in ce r ta in cases . For example, in my c i t y , i f

the re was a burg l a ry of $2,000 or $3,000 , the FBI couldn1twork on t ha t . The FBI . . . has to be a cer ta in amount of money. there has to be somebody they th ink ran away in to anothers t a t e .

Tupamaro - - I see , I see , tha t1s federa l . . tha t1s federa l , tha t1swhat it i s .Mitrione - - That ' s r i gh t because you know they only come intothe pic ture on federa l laws. They have nothing to do with

protec t ion of people , t ha t ' s sec re t se rv ice . They have

.. . .v '


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10nothing (to d ~ ) with that . That IS the Treasury department.Tupamaro - - How come that you said that you rea l ly know nothingabout the CIA? You must know somet hing?Mitrione -- We l l , le t me say that I know the CIA is jus t l ike

every other organization that every other country has. Everycountry has an organization l ike tha t . But the i n t e r i o ~ par tsof the CIA, I am s or ry I don lt know nothing about i t , and lImspeaking sincerely .Tupamaro,-- We l l , I be l i eve you, I think.Mitrione -- lIm speak ing s incerely be cause I work with fourpeople here. Our work is s t r i c t l y on top of the tab le , everyth ing on top of the ~ a bTupamaro Hmm, though they mu s t have some th i ng ....Mi t rione 11m t a lk ing about my divis ion. I don I t know aboutany thing else . I f there is anything e lse I am sure I donl tknow about i t and . . .Tupamaro -- We know some . . . we have a pre t ty good CIA, I wouldsay, you know.Mitrione -- Well, I would think so, I woul d th i nk so. But weboth know . . . we are smart enough to know tha t eve ry country has

i t s own in te l l igence gathering uni t .Tupamaro Well, I donlt blame them.Mitrione But I am not part of ours. That IS what 11m t ryingto impress on you.Tupamaro Well, we have l a s t word, but we have means to know i t .Mitrione Sure.Tupamaro Ah, well , what do you think about us? I mean Idon I want to jus t , you l{now, chat.Mitrione Tupamaros?Tupamaro Yes, you know pret ty much about us, a t l eas t , youhave been here for long. How long have you been here?Mitrione -- One year.


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11Tupamaro-- One year, t ha t ' s long enough.Mitrione -- You do a pret ty good job. You do a pret ty goodjob. You are well organized. Y;iU must have good leaders .Tupamaro - - \


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Tupamaroyesterdaysomethingpol i t i ca l

Mitrione

" " 12Besides the others yesterday and the da i -before. . . they can ' t t e l l (why) rea l ly . They informthey shouldn ' t inform, and you know the.re arepart ies who are ,forbidden here, you know tha t .Sure, I suppose. I don' t know that much about i t .

Tupamaro Well, you met Zina Fernandez (reference to RomeoZ1na Fernandez, a mil i tary Colonel who had been detailed toserve as chief of police in Montevideo. After the slaying ofMoran Charquero, Zina Fernandez resigned),did you?Mitrione Yes, yes, Zina Fernandez.Tupamaro What do you think about him?Mitrione Well, I knew him as a police chief and as a Colonel

of the mil i tary . That i s the only thing I knew. I 've neverbeen to his house.Tupamaro Or his part ies?Mitrione I know nothing about his par t ies . What was he?Tupamaro What was he?Mitrione Yes, was ~ e a Blanco or Colorado (reference to thetwo major pol i t i ca l part ies of Uruguay) orTupamaro I rea l ly don' t know.Mitirone I don' t know e i the r .Tupamaro But you knOVJ he wasn't too honest real ly .Mitrione According to what I read, he wasn' t .Tupamaro He was a chief of pol ice , and I bet tha t you are

fa r more honest. I mean I feel that you are , you know,engaged in something you believe and you are paid for andyou jus t . . .

Mitrione - - Yes, you are r ight , I feel strbngly that way. Ifeel that i f ci ty government people (can ' t ) be honest , howcan you expect anyone else to be honest?Tupamaro -- We are fight ing that . We hate to be violent youknow. You noticed the way we t r ea t you af ter vvere injured,


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13the way we t r ied to bring you doctor . You "have the doctorvery fast .Mitrione You were very kind, I must say tha t .Tupamaro There have been many doctors here to take care of you,

and we have (done) everything to avoid, you know, any surprise.And we r eal ly don' t l ike to k i l l ' people at a l l , but we wj) l ) "andwe do i t ) wheri i t is necessary, you see. We ki l led MoranCharquero wi th a smile because we knew that we were doing some-thing some mates wil l , you know, thank, because he rea l ly wasa tor tu . . . I don' t know do you say .0 . tor turer?Mitrione Torturer .Tupamaro Si (Spanish for lTyes") and . there are many and wewil l k i l l everyone of them, sooner or l a t e r , you knowMitrione - - I ho pe , le t me say t h i s , I hope you get the problemssolved before you have to k i l l any more on ei ther side. Thatdoesn' t a ccomplish anything rea l ly .Tupamaro - - Ah , we hope i t , too, but we don' t see i t very soon.Mitrione -- I hope so. Miracles have happened before. The thing

I say is tha t the Tupamaros - - t he MIN (reference to Movimientode ,Libe:r:-acion Naci ona l , " .National , Liberation Movement IT) - - arenot people f r om Mars . You are a l l Uruguayans, and ,you are notstrangers from oute r s P 8 : c or enemies .... You are Uruguayansthat want to see your "government do th ings, what 'you considerbet ter and t ha t i s why I say you ought to be able to s i t to gether, be cau se i t i sn ' t a case l ike in the United Stat.es, wherewe do have a ve ry def in i te separation between the black and thewhite.

Tupamaro Yeah, tha t ' s a pret ty rough problem, i sn ' t i t?Mitrione Oh , ye s , my goodness, i t i s a rough problem. Buthere you don' t have tha t . Everybody is an Uruguayan,but the 'philosophy and the i dealogy i s dif fe ren t , tha t ' s a l l .Tupamaro - - Yeah, yes, and it's pret ty hard to do i t withoutviolence, you know. lIve been t rying for long before I decidedto work with violence , you know. I didn ' t care about my l i f e ,

I cared about hunger and exploi ta t ion. So we wouldn't care todie rea l ly . We (have) been chosen fo r tha t , you know, becausewe rea l ly give our l ives for something we feel i s important, yousee. So when you were working with the PM (reference toPolicia Mil i ta r - "Military POlice lT ) there in Braz i l , whatkind of re la t ions do they have with nops (reference to the


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14Departamento de Ordem Poli t ico e Social , DOPS - lIDepartmentof Pol i t ica l and Social Order ll )

Mitrione itl i th the DOPS?Tupamaro Yes .

. Mitrione Oh, I think the DOPS back in those days 1" I ,didn ' tknow t oo much DOPS are the pol i t ica l pol ice , right?Tupamaro . Yes.Mitrione I think one of the problems t hat they had was the

pol i t i ca l police - - the DOPS, were more, mostly pol i t i ca lappointments and the mil i tary police were people who came upfrom the ranks . . . came in and they were ....

Tupamaro Discipline?Mitrione Yeah, l ike army,. you know mili tary . I had very

li t t le to do with DOPS, I don' t know much about them.Tupamaro Well, I understand tha t . the t ra in ing , the t ra iningto the mil i tary police now is mainly against guer r i l l a , because

you know tha t ' s the main problem now.Mitrione - - Yesi back in those days we didn ' t do tha t , becauseguerr i l la problems were no t the thing then. All we t ra ined

for was how to handle labor s t r ikes , labor problems and maybedemonstrations of people and how to use humane methods andnot to hurt anybody i f you could help i t . And how to be outto f ight i f you have to .Tupamaro - - Yes, we read a l l those document s you sent to the

different police depar t ments of Latin America.Mitrione Well, they are changing now, you know that .Tupamaro We've been re ading special means, you know, onin t erroga t ion , tha t ' s very in te res t ing . And when are you plan-"ning to re t i r e , I mean i f everything runs well and you can goout free and a l l tha t , go back to family?Mitrione Well, i f I go back to my family I would l ike togather up my family and f in ish my days in my own country . . .Tupamaro Yeah, tha t ' s pret ty rough.

M:

L


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15Mitrione . . . as quickly as possibleTupamaro "'Ie h ope i t too . And wi l l you go to Indiana?Mitrione Yes , we l l , I have to go to Indiana. I t ' s my home.Tupamaro "'Ihat about Univers i tar ian (sic) there in Indiana?Mitrione Un i ve r si ty?Tupamaro Yes.Mitrione There , they have the i r problems,too. They are havingand t he Studentsdemons t ra t ion s and t he hippies and the yippiesfor a Democrat ic Socie t yTupamaro Weathermen ?Mitrione And Weathermen. But they are not al l wrong . . . the yare n ot a l l wr ong . . . t hey have some pre t t y good i d e a ~ t o o .Tupamaro Do you think . . . ?Mitrione Yeah, I am sure t here are a lo t of smart people there .They are not a l l dummies .I think some of them havepeople ought to l i s ten to

I think some of them are lazy, butsome ideas, an d I think t he olderthem a l i t t l e more .

~ l n A m A r o - - Yes, that I unders t and. They Make enough noise tobe l i s tened to , a t leas t .

Mitrione -- Yeah, well , jus t l ike you -said a whi le ago. Theyt r ied to ta lk but no one would l i s ten , sQ t hey had to resor tto violence because nObody would l i s ten .

Tupamaro Have you seen "Z abriskie Point ," the film?Mitrione No, I haven' t been to a movie here . The l a s t one Isaw was "Funny Girl , " a long time ago.Tupamaro Pret ty good?Mitrione I t ' s a very good film.Tupamaro Yes.Mitrione What ' s "Zabriskie Poin t fI about ?


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16Tupamaro Well, about violence in the States.Mitrione Oh, i s i t?Tupamaro Yes.Mitrione Oh, boy.Tupamaro I t ' s pret ty in te res t ing .Mitrione lIiell, I stay home with the children and the family.I don' t go out too much, besides when we have to . go to cocktai l

par t ies , that type of thing. Most of the time we are home withthe family.Tupamaro A lo t of diplomatic work?Mitrione Not too much, not too much.Tupamaro Have you met the President?Mitrione Of what?Tupamaro Of UruguayMitrione Here? No, I haven ' t .Tupamaro You should (ha,ha).Mitrione I never had the pleasure.Tupamaro Nice guy. I would l ike to meet him too, under thesame conditions I met you, or even worse. I don' t feel badabout him rea l ly , but about what he 's doing . . . T,hat 's a nice

ta lk , and I mean I think you are very smart. You (chose) thebest way of dealing with us, you know. You know you are rea l lyunder our power and can ' t do anything so . . . .Mitrione - - I'm s t r ic t ly a t your mercy, rea l ly . And I under-stand tha t .Tupamaro - - Well, it's not mercy. Well, I don' t know the wordin English, but I would t rans la te i t . . . I would not cal l i tmercy, you know. I t depends on your government, the pressurei t can do, and ours, our government, and . . but you've beensmart. You know your n e i g h b o ~ h e make a l i t t l e more noise.Mitrione - - Well, the only thing I regret about a l l th is : I don' t

l ike one thing and tha t is tha t too many innocent people suffer .


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18Uruguayans I am sure they are different

Tupamaro - - But they tor ture here, too. In Brazil is horr ible , youknow, I would l ike to ki l l Mr. Fleury (reference to Sergio Paran-has Fleury, off ic ia l of the Department of Poli t ica l and SocialO:J1;der, DOPS, in Sao Paulo, Brazil) you know chief of . .

Mitrione Chief of the police there?Tupamaro No, you know they have this ~ p e c i a l . . . .Third Voice -- Death squad.Mitrione What i s his name?Tupamaro Fleury. I don't know how they pronounce i t .Mitrione I don't know ei ther , in Brazi l , in Rio, or in Brasi l ia ?Tupamaro All I know is Brazi l . He has been here teaching, too,about four or five months ago.MitrioneTupamaroMitrioneTupamarohim.Mitrione

Oh, yes.Yes, you know death squad or something.Oh, yeah.He's been here in Punta del Este. We couldn't meet.

But you met me, huh?Tupamaro Yeah, I always been doing everything to meet you.Not myself, I didn ' t lmow who you were unt i l you told me and themates told me. Yesterday morning we met you, real ly . Becausewe don' t have any information we don' t need to have, so we can ' ttall-c too much. But that I s our way of working. But you should

talk more than me.Mitrione May I have another glass of water, please?Tupmaro Yes, what do you think is going to happen with a l lLatin America.Mitrione - - Well, Latin America is going to be a l l r ight . I don'tcare, I don' t know how long i t is going to take, ,but there arepeople who love l i f e , there are people in every country that

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19love l i f e . Governments have pr ob le ms , bu t s ome day i t ' s goingto solved you mark my words.

'rupamaro Yes.Mitrione It's going to be solved. All these bu i l d ings and a l l -these s to res and a l l these schools and a l l these f oo t b a l l f i e ldsare no t accidents . They \.vere b u i l t by i n t e l l igent people . They

are no t going to be des t royed overnight .Tupamaro No, we hope not .Mitrione No, I know they are no t . It's j u s t going to be a caseof how long it i s going to t ake . Some countr ies w i l l take long-

e r than o thers .Tupamaro - - You know, there are some people who love the th ingsthey have very much and they have too many th in g s , though. Then

it's very d i f f i cu l t to t a ke ( it awa y from) them.Mitr ione - - This i s t rue . This i s t rue . Tha t ' s one of the prob-

lems in Latin America.Tupamaro - - There are fe w peop l e , who are owning so many in te res t s ,

you know,Bank of Ame r ica and The F i r s t Nat iona l City Bank andThe Chase Manhattan Bank. You know they a re very s t rong

Mitrione - - Thank you (apparen t ly d i rec ted toward t h i rd par ty ) .Third Voice - - Yeah.Tupamaro They are r e a l l y , r ea l l y very s t rongMitrione This i s something t ha t has been going on fo r hundre dsof year s .Tupamaro We have to f in i sh it.Mi t r i one What I mean, tha t t h i s ( is ) something old . This i s n ' tsomething tha t has j u s t s t a r t ed .Tupamaro - - Will you excuse me? Well , I have to do some o therwork now, so w e ' l l keep t a lk ing l a t e r . All r igh t ?

r i o n e - - All r i g h t , f ine .################

Dialogue Before Death

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