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Denationalized States and Global Assemblages

Sassen, Saskia; Wennerhag, Magnus

Published in:Pavilion

2007

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Citation for published version (APA):Sassen, S., & Wennerhag, M. (2007). Denationalized States and Global Assemblages. Pavilion, (10-11), 68-77.

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[68]

[69]

the

othe

r ha

nd, a

dec

ay o

f the

stru

ctur

alco

nditi

ons

with

in w

hich

Key

nesi

an li

ber-

alis

m

coul

d fu

nctio

n.

So

the

stru

ggle

toda

y ha

s be

en re

nam

ed: o

ne k

ey te

rm is

dem

ocra

tic p

artic

ipat

ion

and

repr

esen

ta-

tion,

and

thos

e w

ho u

se th

is la

ngua

ge w

illra

rely

invo

ke li

bera

lism

. Whe

n w

e pr

aise

liber

alis

m,

it is

ofte

n a

situ

ated

def

ense

:as

aga

inst

neo

liber

alis

m, a

s ag

ains

t fun

-da

men

talis

ms

and

desp

otis

ms

– t

his

isno

t nec

essa

rily

invo

king

his

toric

al li

bera

l-is

m,

whi

ch a

t its

orig

ins

was

def

endi

ngth

e rig

hts

of a

n em

ergi

ng c

lass

of p

rope

r-ty

ow

ners

, but

the

best

asp

ects

of a

doc

-tri

ne th

at h

ad to

do

with

the

fight

aga

inst

the

desp

otis

m o

f Cro

wn

and

nobi

lity.

MW

: In

you

r ne

w b

ook,

1 yo

u ca

ll th

ede

velo

pmen

t of t

he U

S s

tate

"illib

eral

". Is

this

a m

ore

gene

ral d

evel

opm

ent t

hat c

anbe

see

n in

oth

er c

ount

ries

as w

ell?

SS

: Th

eore

tical

ly s

peak

ing,

I w

ould

say

that

we

will

see

sim

ilar t

rend

s in

oth

er li

b-er

al d

emoc

ratic

regi

mes

that

are

neo

-lib-

eral

izin

g th

eir

soci

al p

olic

ies,

hol

low

ing

out

thei

r le

gisl

atur

es/p

arlia

men

ts,

and

augm

entin

g as

wel

l as

priv

atiz

ing

or p

ro-

tect

ing

the

pow

er o

f th

eir

exec

utiv

e or

prim

e m

inis

teria

l bra

nch

of g

over

nmen

t.Th

at is

to

say,

we

will

see

thes

e tre

nds

whe

re w

e se

e th

e co

nditi

ons

I ide

ntify

for

the

US

, ev

en t

houg

h th

ey w

ill as

sum

eth

eir

own

spec

ific

form

s an

d co

nten

ts.

Iw

ould

say

tha

t B

lair'

s re

ign

in t

he U

Kes

peci

ally

si

nce

the

war

on

Ira

q ha

scl

early

mov

ed in

this

dire

ctio

n. In

stea

d of

bein

g gu

ided

(an

d di

scip

lined

!) by

the

Cab

inet

, whi

ch is

par

liam

ent b

ased

, Bla

irse

t up

a p

aral

lel

"cab

inet

" at

Dow

ning

Stre

et f

rom

whi

ch h

e go

t m

uch

of h

isad

vice

and

con

firm

atio

ns o

f th

e co

rrect

-ne

ss o

f his

dec

isio

ns. T

his

had

the

effe

ctof

hol

low

ing

out

the

real

Cab

inet

. Th

is

may

als

o ex

plai

n w

hy s

ome

of th

e le

ad-

ing

figur

es o

f th

e re

al C

abin

et r

esig

ned:

Rob

in C

ook,

Cla

re S

hort.

All

of th

is is

wel

lkn

own

and

muc

h co

mm

ente

d on

in t

heU

K. A

t the

sam

e tim

e, I

wou

ld a

rgue

that

even

th

ough

B

erlu

scon

i's

regi

me

had

som

e of

the

se f

eatu

res,

it

was

mor

e a

cons

eque

nce

of c

orru

ptio

n an

d m

anip

u-la

tion

of t

he p

oliti

cal a

ppar

atus

tha

n th

ety

pe o

f sys

tem

ic d

evel

opm

ent I

am

allu

d-in

g to

. Th

e an

swer

to

your

que

stio

n is

also

em

piric

al:

we

need

re

sear

ch

toun

ders

tand

whe

re t

his

syst

emic

tre

nd is

emer

ging

an

d be

com

ing

visi

ble/

oper

a-tio

nal.

MW

: M

any

Eur

opea

n co

untri

es a

re c

ur-

rent

ly

cont

empl

atin

g in

trodu

cing

so

me

type

of "

citiz

ensh

ip te

sts"

. In

Sw

eden

, the

tradi

tiona

lly s

ocia

l lib

eral

Fol

kpar

tiet

has

purs

ued

this

iss

ue a

nd p

ropo

sed

that

imm

igra

nts

have

to p

ass

a la

ngua

ge te

stto

bec

ome

Sw

edis

h ci

tizen

s. G

ener

ally,

the

party

wan

ts to

app

ly m

ore

pate

rnal

is-

tic p

oliti

cal m

easu

res

– "t

ough

on

crim

e",

mor

e di

scip

line

in s

choo

ls –

esp

ecia

llyre

gard

ing

imm

igra

nts.

The

cor

resp

ondi

ngpo

litic

al p

arty

in D

enm

ark

has,

dur

ing

itstim

e in

offi

ce,

brou

ght

this

dev

elop

men

tev

en fu

rther

. Spe

akin

g of

libe

ralis

m a

s a

polit

ical

ideo

logy

, do

you

see

it as

bei

ngin

the

mid

st o

f a

cris

is,

or i

s it

sim

ply

adap

ting

to th

e co

nditi

ons

of th

e pr

evai

l-in

g (e

cono

mic

, pol

itica

l, le

gal,

etc)

ord

er?

SS

: I w

ould

say

trad

ition

al li

bera

lism

is in

cris

is,

or a

t le

ast

bein

g at

tack

ed b

y th

ego

vern

men

ts t

hem

selv

es a

s w

ell

as b

ypo

wer

ful e

cono

mic

act

ors

and

certa

in tr

a-di

tiona

l so

ciet

y se

ctor

s, s

uch

as f

unda

-m

enta

list

evan

gelic

al g

roup

s in

the

US

.W

hy s

houl

d it

last

fore

ver?

Not

hing

has

–ex

cept

the

Cat

holic

Chu

rch,

I gu

ess.

But

to d

o so

it h

as h

ad to

rein

vent

itse

lf re

gu-

Mag

nus

Wen

nerh

ag:

Toda

y, t

here

is a

nob

viou

s di

ffere

nce

betw

een

the

rhet

oric

of li

bera

lism

– th

at is

, lib

eral

ism

as

polit

i-ca

l ide

olog

y –

and

the

actu

al w

orki

ngs

ofth

e st

ate

in l

iber

al-d

emoc

ratic

pol

ities

.Fr

om

an

hist

oric

al

pers

pect

ive,

ho

wsh

ould

we

unde

rsta

nd th

is d

iffer

ence

?

Sas

kia

Sas

sen:

I w

ould

dis

tingu

ish

two

issu

es. O

ne is

that

his

toric

ally,

libe

ralis

mis

dee

ply

grou

nded

in a

par

ticul

ar c

ombi

-na

tion

of c

ircum

stan

ces.

Mos

t im

porta

ntis

the

stru

ggle

by

mer

chan

ts a

nd m

anu-

fact

urer

s to

gai

n lib

ertie

s vi

s-à-

vis

the

Cro

wn

and

the

aris

tocr

acy,

and

the

use

ofth

e m

arke

t as

the

inst

itutio

nal s

ettin

g th

atbo

th g

ave

forc

e an

d le

gitim

acy

to t

hat

clai

m. S

een

this

way

, why

sho

uld

liber

al-

ism

not

hav

e de

caye

d? W

hat r

escu

ed li

b-er

alis

m w

as K

eyne

sian

ism

, the

ext

ensi

onof

a s

ocia

lly e

mpo

wer

ing

proj

ect

to t

hew

hole

of s

ocie

ty. T

his

is th

e cr

isis

toda

y:K

eyne

sian

ism

has

bee

n at

tack

ed b

y ne

wty

pes

of a

ctor

s, in

clud

ing

segm

ents

of t

hepo

litic

al e

lite.

Wha

t is

happ

enin

g to

day

ison

the

one

han

d a

deca

y (o

bjec

tivel

ysp

eaki

ng) o

f lib

eral

ism

eve

n as

an

ideo

l-og

y –

bei

ng re

plac

ed w

ith n

eolib

eral

ism

,at

tack

s on

the

wel

fare

sta

te, e

tc –

and

, on

Den

atio

naliz

ed S

tate

s an

d G

loba

l A

ssem

blag

es

Mag

nus

Wen

nerh

ag in

dia

logu

e w

ith S

aski

a S

asse

n

[70]larly

. Thi

s do

es n

ot m

ean

that

the

aspi

ra-

tion

of d

emoc

ratic

par

ticip

ator

y po

litic

alsy

stem

s is

goi

ng u

nder

. On

the

cont

rary

.B

ut it

s hi

stor

ical

libe

ral f

orm

is s

tress

ed.

Per

haps

the

real

que

stio

n is

whe

ther

the

stat

e in

cou

ntrie

s su

ch a

s th

e U

S is

libe

r-al

, or e

ver w

as li

bera

l. It

may

hav

e im

ple-

men

ted

liber

al p

olic

ies,

and

the

leg

isla

-tu

re a

t va

rious

tim

es d

id e

mbe

d lib

eral

norm

s in

the

sta

te a

ppar

atus

. B

ut t

hese

did

not

alw

ays

last

. To

day

we

are

wit-

ness

ing

yet

anot

her

set

of b

reak

dow

ns.

As

for t

he is

sues

aro

und

imm

igra

tion

you

men

tion,

they

are

als

o ha

ppen

ing

in th

eU

S, w

here

ther

e w

as e

ven

a pr

opos

al to

mak

e un

docu

men

ted

imm

igra

tion

into

acr

imin

al a

ct a

nd s

tatu

s. T

his

is n

ew.

MW

: Aro

und

the

turn

of t

he la

st c

entu

ry,

the

disc

over

y of

the

"so

cial

que

stio

n"(a

nd th

e ris

e of

the

wor

kers

'mov

emen

t)tra

nsfo

rmed

pol

itics

in a

pro

foun

d w

ay. I

tch

ange

d th

e lib

eral

not

ion

of "

citiz

en-

ship

", w

hich

be

cam

e m

ore

incl

usiv

e,m

akin

g sp

ace

for

prev

ious

ly e

xclu

ded

soci

al c

lass

es a

nd p

oliti

cal s

ubje

ctiv

ities

.N

ew m

odel

s fo

r med

iatin

g so

cial

con

flict

svi

a th

e st

ate

wer

e cr

eate

d. F

rom

this

per

-sp

ectiv

e, h

ow c

an th

e ha

ndlin

g of

toda

y's

"soc

ial

ques

tion"

– t

he g

roup

s th

at a

rem

argi

nal o

r exc

lude

d in

toda

y's

econ

om-

ic c

ircui

ts a

nd t

he p

oliti

cal

subj

ectiv

ities

that

this

giv

es b

irth

to –

be

inte

rpre

ted?

SS

: Thi

s is

a c

ritic

al a

rena

. It i

s an

issu

ew

hich

ill

umin

ates

lik

e fe

w

othe

rs

the

deca

ying

cap

acity

of

the

liber

al s

tate

to

hand

le t

he s

ocia

l qu

estio

n –

giv

en t

hety

pe o

f lib

eral

ism

tha

t ha

s ev

olve

d ov

erth

e la

st tw

enty

to th

irty

year

s an

d th

e co

n-te

xt

with

in

whi

ch

toda

y's

liber

al

stat

eop

erat

es.

In m

y ne

w b

ook,

I ar

gue

that

the

form

al

polit

ical

sys

tem

acc

omm

odat

es le

ss a

ndle

ss o

f the

pol

itica

l tod

ay. H

ence

info

rmal

form

s an

d sp

aces

of t

he p

oliti

cal b

ecom

ein

crea

sing

ly im

porta

nt to

day.

Mos

t fam

il-ia

r is

pro

babl

y th

e w

hole

ran

ge o

f stre

etpo

litic

s.

You

can

dem

onst

rate

ag

ains

tpo

lice

brut

ality

eve

n if

you

are

an u

ndoc

-um

ente

d im

mig

rant

or

a to

uris

t vis

iting

afri

end.

I am

par

ticul

arly

inte

rest

ed in

how

cultu

ral

even

ts c

an b

ecom

e po

litic

al a

tpa

rticu

lar t

imes

and

pla

ces.

Thu

s th

e ci

r-cu

s (s

treet

circ

us) h

as b

ecom

e a

polit

ical

form

toda

y, a

s ha

ve p

arad

es s

uch

as th

eA

fro-C

arib

bean

par

ades

in

Lond

on a

ndN

ew Y

ork,

or t

he g

ay p

arad

es in

a g

row

-in

g nu

mbe

r of

citi

es a

roun

d th

e w

orld

.W

hen

the

Mad

res

de la

Pla

za d

e M

ayo

stoo

d in

fro

nt o

f th

e ho

uses

of

pow

er in

Bue

nos

Aire

s du

ring

the

dict

ator

ship

prot

estin

g th

e di

sapp

eara

nce

of

thei

rso

ns a

nd d

augh

ters

, the

y w

ere

ther

e as

mot

hers

, no

t as

for

mal

citi

zens

. A

nd i

nth

at s

ense

the

y w

ere

info

rmal

pol

itica

lac

tors

, bec

ause

the

lega

l per

sona

of t

he"m

othe

r" is

priv

ate,

not

that

of a

pol

itica

lac

tor.

I th

ink

it w

as p

reci

sely

the

ir be

ing

ther

e as

mot

hers

tha

t pr

otec

ted

them

,be

caus

e as

citi

zens

the

y w

ould

hav

ebe

en v

iola

ting

the

cont

ract

bet

wee

n th

eci

tizen

and

the

sta

te,

and

they

wou

ldpr

obab

ly h

ave

been

jaile

d.

Impo

rtant

to

my

anal

ysis

are

tw

o ot

her

poin

ts.

One

is

the

role

of

spac

e. T

here

are

kind

s of

spa

ces

that

are

par

ticul

arly

enab

ling,

and

I t

hink

larg

e m

essy

citi

es,

espe

cial

ly g

loba

l citi

es, a

re s

uch

spac

es.

Sec

ondl

y, I

argu

e th

at to

day

the

mul

tina-

tiona

l cor

pora

tion,

whi

ch is

a p

rivat

e le

gal

pers

ona,

als

o fu

nctio

ns a

s an

inf

orm

alpo

litic

al a

ctor

at a

tim

e w

hen

the

glob

aliz

-in

g of

the

econ

omy

requ

ires

that

nat

iona

lst

ates

cha

nge

som

e of

thei

r key

law

s an

d[71]

regu

latio

ns s

o th

at th

ere

is a

glo

bal s

pace

for

the

oper

atio

ns o

f th

ese

firm

s. T

hey

have

and

con

tinue

to p

ut a

lot o

f pre

ssur

eon

gov

ernm

ents

to

do w

hat

they

wan

tdo

ne.

Yes,

th

ey

are

info

rmal

po

litic

alac

tors

. I s

houl

d sa

y, o

n a

mor

e th

eore

ti-ca

l not

e, th

at th

is p

oint

s to

som

ethi

ng th

atha

s lo

ng b

een

criti

cal

in m

y w

ork:

the

mul

tival

ence

of

man

y of

the

em

erge

ntso

cial

for

ms

– t

hese

new

soc

ial

form

sca

n in

corp

orat

e w

hat

we

mig

ht c

all

the

good

and

the

bad

guys

.

MW

: You

men

tion

som

e of

the

subj

ectiv

i-tie

s at

wor

k to

day

in w

hat y

ou in

terp

ret a

sne

w p

oliti

cal s

pace

s. D

o w

e al

so h

ave

toin

vent

new

for

ms

of r

ight

s th

at i

nclu

deth

ose

on th

e ou

tsid

e?

SS

: Thi

s br

ings

up

a cr

itica

l dyn

amic

, but

one

that

is e

lusi

ve a

nd o

ften

obsc

ured

by

the

hatre

ds a

nd p

assi

ons

of a

per

iod.

Som

e of

the

bes

t so

cial

and

civ

ic r

ight

sw

e ha

ve a

chie

ved

in W

este

rn s

ocie

ties

have

com

e ou

t of

the

stru

ggle

s fo

r an

dag

ains

t in

clus

ion

of t

he d

isad

vant

aged

,or

the

dis

crim

inat

ed,

or t

he o

utsi

ders

.Th

e st

rugg

les

by w

omen

for t

he v

ote

are

an e

xam

ple,

as

are

the

stru

ggle

s of

any

min

oriti

zed

citiz

en –

bla

ck in

the

US,

for

inst

ance

. S

o w

ere

the

stru

ggle

s by

med

ieva

l m

erch

ants

who

fou

ght

for

the

right

to

prot

ect

thei

r pr

oper

ty f

rom

the

abus

es o

f the

kin

g, n

obilit

y, a

nd C

hurc

h.W

hen

you

look

at t

he h

isto

ry o

f im

mig

ra-

tion

in w

este

rn E

urop

e (m

uch

mor

e so

than

in

the

US

), yo

u ca

n se

e ho

w t

hest

rugg

les

to i

nclu

de t

he o

utsi

der

thic

k-en

ed t

he c

ivic

fab

ric.

In t

he E

urop

ean

cont

ext,

whe

re t

he c

ivic

mat

ters

, in

clud

-in

g th

e ou

tsid

er h

as a

lway

s be

en a

big

deal

. In

con

trast

, in

the

US

with

its

lais

-se

z-fa

ire s

tanc

e, t

he n

otio

n w

as m

ore:

You

wan

t to

com

e in

? Fi

ne. B

ut y

ou a

re

on y

our

own.

Thi

s is

cle

arly

a s

impl

ifica

-tio

n, g

iven

the

raci

sms

that

hav

e pr

olife

r-at

ed in

the

US

, sta

rting

with

the

raci

aliz

-in

g of

the

Iris

h. B

ut in

Eur

ope,

incl

udin

gth

e ou

tsid

er h

as m

eant

acc

ess

to p

ublic

heal

th a

nd o

ther

pub

lic s

ervi

ces,

a r

ea-

sona

ble

sens

e of

inte

grat

ion.

Thi

s is

, of

cour

se,

also

an

exag

gera

tion,

but

stil

lth

at is

the

orie

ntat

ion.

The

out

com

e w

asth

at E

urop

ean

coun

tries

had

to

inve

ntne

w a

dmin

istra

tive

inst

rum

ents

and

ofte

nne

w le

gal s

tatu

tes

to h

andl

e th

ese

mat

-te

rs. B

ut th

is w

as to

the

bene

fit o

f all,

as

it st

reng

then

ed th

e rig

ht to

pub

lic g

oods

.W

e ha

ve n

ot h

ad t

his

type

of

deve

lop-

men

t in

the

US

. Thi

s w

as c

lear

ly a

com

-pl

ex h

isto

ry, b

ut I

thin

k th

ese

cont

rast

ing

alig

nmen

ts a

re p

rese

nt in

the

traje

ctor

ies

of th

e U

S a

nd w

este

rn E

urop

e.

This

was

har

d w

ork.

In m

y w

ork

I em

pha-

size

tha

t th

ese

type

s of

stru

ggle

s fo

rin

clus

ion

and

for

the

prod

uctio

n of

new

adm

inis

trativ

e in

stru

men

ts a

nd n

ew ty

pes

of r

ight

s by

law

took

wor

k, to

ok m

akin

g.To

day

we

seem

to h

ave

a co

nsum

er a

tti-

tude

to

th

ese

diffi

cult

times

, su

ch

asto

day'

s an

ti-im

mig

rant

pol

itics

. If t

here

isno

rea

dy-m

ade

solu

tion

lyin

g on

a s

helf,

ther

e m

ust b

e no

sol

utio

n. W

e ha

ve lo

stth

e hi

stor

ical

sen

se o

f "m

akin

g".

This

pol

itica

l wor

k w

as o

ften

the

wor

k of

min

oriti

es i

n th

eir

stru

ggle

s fo

r re

cogn

i-tio

n an

d in

clus

ion.

But

it ty

pica

lly in

volv

edso

me

dedi

cate

d gr

oups

, po

litic

ians

,ac

tivis

ts o

f a

coun

try's

maj

oriti

es w

hobe

lieve

d in

the

nee

d fo

r in

clud

ing

rath

erth

an e

xclu

ding

. Aga

in, s

ome

of o

ur b

est

right

s ha

ve c

ome

out

of t

his

hist

ory

ofst

rugg

les

by

the

disa

dvan

tage

d an

dth

ose

hold

ing

polit

ical

ide

als

that

mad

eth

em m

argi

nal,

no m

atte

r ho

w m

uch

apa

rt of

the

dom

inan

t so

ciet

y th

ey m

ay

[72]ha

ve b

een.

I lik

e to

em

phas

ize

that

thes

est

rugg

les

cont

aine

d th

e w

ork

of m

akin

grig

hts

– in

fact

, ofte

n m

akin

g ne

w r

ight

s.Th

is w

as n

ot o

nly

abou

t ask

ing

for i

nclu

-si

on u

nder

exi

stin

g rig

hts

or a

skin

g fo

r a

bigg

er s

hare

of

the

gove

rnm

ent's

pie

.In

clud

ing

the

outs

ider

m

eant

"m

akin

gne

w"

right

s, e

spec

ially

civ

ic a

nd s

ocia

l.Th

is is

a lo

ng h

isto

ry in

wha

t was

larg

ely

a E

urop

e of

citi

es.

Toda

y th

e la

ndsc

ape

is c

onfu

sing

– c

on-

fusi

ng in

the

sens

e th

at it

doe

s no

t mak

evi

sibl

e al

l th

e el

emen

ts,

and

in

that

sens

e, h

erm

etic

. We

need

to d

etec

t wha

tst

rugg

les

and

deba

tes

toda

y si

gnal

the

poss

ibilit

y of

the

mak

ing

of n

ew r

ight

s.H

ere

I do

find

that

the

ques

tion

of im

mi-

grat

ion,

but

als

o th

at o

f ra

cial

ized

citi

-ze

ns, o

f gay

s an

d le

sbia

ns a

nd q

ueer

s, o

fpo

litic

al d

isse

nter

s at

a ti

me

of e

xcep

tion-

al p

ower

s gr

ante

d to

sta

tes

– r

eally

the

exec

utiv

e br

anch

of s

tate

s –

are

the

ones

that

can

mat

eria

lize

the

mak

ing

of n

ewrig

hts.

MW

: The

idea

of t

he p

rivat

e sp

here

– th

eho

me

as w

ell a

s th

e m

arke

t – h

as fo

r lon

gbe

en th

e ta

rget

of c

ritic

ism

, fro

m p

rogr

es-

sive

the

oris

ts a

s w

ell

as s

ocia

l m

ove-

men

ts, f

or v

eilin

g an

d le

gitim

izin

g as

ym-

met

ries

of p

ower

and

inju

stic

es.

Are

we

toda

y, b

ecau

se o

f the

mor

e fre

quen

t vio

-la

tions

of p

erso

nal i

nteg

rity

(sur

veilla

nce,

"mor

al p

oliti

cs",

etc)

, con

front

ing

a si

tua-

tion

whe

re a

diff

eren

t priv

ate

sphe

re m

ust

be c

onst

ruct

ed,

rath

er t

han

cont

inui

ngth

e cr

itici

sm o

f the

pub

lic-p

rivat

e di

vide

?O

r do

you

see

new

pos

sibi

litie

s co

min

gou

t of t

he w

ither

ing

away

of o

ld d

ivid

ing

lines

bet

wee

n th

e pr

ivat

e an

d th

e pu

blic

?

SS

: Th

is i

s a

com

plex

iss

ue a

nd o

ne I

spen

t qui

te a

bit

of ti

me

teas

ing

out i

n th

e

book

. Yes

, the

div

isio

n as

his

toric

ally

con

-st

ruct

ed is

und

er s

tress

. And

it is

not

just

beca

use

of s

urve

illanc

e te

chno

logi

es a

ndth

e er

osio

n of

priv

acy

right

s. N

or c

an th

ecu

rrent

cha

nge

be e

xpla

ined

by

the

fact

that

the

pers

onal

is p

oliti

cal a

nd th

e si

tefo

r mul

tiple

asy

mm

etrie

s. A

ll of

thes

e cr

it-ic

al a

spec

ts a

re p

art o

f the

pic

ture

, but

inon

e w

ay o

r ano

ther

they

hav

e be

en th

ere

for a

long

tim

e.

Wha

t is

diffe

rent

, or

spec

ific

to th

e cu

r-re

nt tr

ansf

orm

atio

n? A

t the

dee

pest

leve

l,I a

rgue

, it h

as to

do

with

a c

hang

ing

logi

cor

gani

zing

the

div

isio

n of

priv

ate/

publ

ic.

In it

s hi

stor

ical

orig

ins,

this

div

isio

n w

as a

wor

king

div

isio

n: th

ere

wer

e sp

ecifi

c ai

ms

havi

ng to

do

with

allo

win

g th

e ex

pans

ion

of m

arke

ts, c

onte

stin

g ab

solu

tist p

ower

sof

the

Cro

wn,

and

so

on.

My

ques

tion

is:

wha

t is

the

log

ic t

hat

unde

rlies

toda

y's

chan

ges.

It is

impo

ssi-

ble

to d

o ju

stic

e to

the

subj

ect,

but h

ere

are

som

e el

emen

ts o

f m

y an

swer

. Fi

rst,

the

priv

atiz

ing

of e

xecu

tive

pow

er b

rings

with

it

a fu

ndam

enta

l in

vers

ion

of t

hest

ate/

citiz

en (

publ

ic/p

rivat

e) r

elat

ions

hip.

The

exec

utiv

e is

less

and

less

acc

ount

-ab

le

and

citiz

ens'

priv

acy

right

s ar

ein

crea

sing

ly p

erfo

rate

d. S

econ

dly,

the

sepe

rfora

ted

priv

acy

right

s ar

e bu

t on

ein

stan

ce o

f de

terio

ratin

g rig

hts

for

citi-

zens

(th

e m

ost

fam

iliar

bein

g de

terio

rat-

ing

soci

al ri

ghts

).

Third

, a g

reat

stre

ngth

enin

g of

the

mar

-ke

t sp

here

, bu

t w

ith a

n iro

nic

twis

t: a

grea

ter

auto

nom

y th

at a

llow

s po

wer

ful

econ

omic

act

ors,

not

ably

glo

bal f

irms,

toac

t as

info

rmal

pol

itica

l age

nts.

Thi

s th

enm

oves

into

my

anal

ysis

abo

ut th

e de

na-

tiona

lizin

g, p

artia

l an

d sp

ecia

lized

, th

atth

ese

firm

s ca

n br

ing

abou

t in

the

polic

ies

[73]

of n

atio

n-st

ates

– t

hey

get

reor

ient

ed,

away

fro

m h

isto

rical

ly d

efin

ed n

atio

nal

aim

s to

war

ds d

enat

iona

lized

glo

bal a

ims.

And

the

lat

ter

hold

s pa

rticu

larly

for

the

exec

utiv

e br

anch

. Th

ere

are

seve

ral

othe

r iss

ues

that

I de

velo

p, in

clud

ing

the

grow

ing

use

of e

cono

mic

cor

pora

te la

w in

shap

ing

mar

ket

dyna

mic

s. M

arke

ts a

reno

t na

tura

l co

nditi

ons;

the

y ar

e cr

eate

din

stitu

tions

. A

nd t

oday

the

y ar

e be

ing

mad

e in

par

ticul

ar w

ays.

MW

: Wha

t are

the

impl

icat

ions

of a

mor

ew

ides

prea

d us

e of

priv

ate

"lega

l" te

ch-

niqu

es,

priv

ate

inst

itutio

ns (

priv

ate

arbi

-tra

tion

cour

ts, e

tc),

and

priv

ate

crea

tion

ofno

rms,

– in

gen

eral

, an

incr

ease

in t

hepo

wer

of p

rivat

e in

stitu

tions

– s

een

from

the

pers

pect

ive

of f

unda

men

tal

liber

al-

dem

ocra

tic

valu

es

and

rega

rdin

g th

epo

ssib

ilitie

s fo

r dem

ocra

tic g

over

nanc

e?

SS

: Tw

o ou

tcom

es. O

ne is

that

the

cen-

tripe

tal p

ower

at t

he h

eart

of th

e hi

stor

icpr

ojec

t of

the

nat

ion-

stat

e be

gins

to

dis-

asse

mbl

e, p

artly

. Th

e ce

ntre

no

long

erho

lds

the

way

it u

sed

to –

thou

gh th

is w

asne

ver

abso

lute

, al

way

s im

perfe

ct,

and

with

muc

h le

akag

e. T

he r

esul

t has

bee

na

deca

y in

the

nor

mat

ive

fram

ings

, ba

l-an

ces

betw

een

pow

er a

nd v

ulne

rabi

lity,

and

othe

r goo

d fe

atur

es o

f lib

eral

dem

oc-

racy

. S

o w

e m

ay s

till h

ave

the

syst

ems,

the

inst

itutio

ns,

of t

hat

dem

ocra

cy b

utth

ey m

ean

less

and

less

. Thu

s in

the

US

we

still

vote

, bu

t it

mea

ns le

ss.

Firs

t w

eha

d th

e ra

pidl

y fa

lling

rate

s of

par

ticip

a-tio

n in

vot

ing,

now

dow

n to

wel

l und

er h

alf

of t

he v

otin

g po

pula

tion.

And

the

Bus

hA

dmin

istra

tion

brou

ght w

ith it

yet

ano

ther

phas

e of

dec

ay: a

con

test

ed e

lect

ion

that

had

to b

e de

cide

d by

fiat

by

the

Sup

rem

eC

ourt.

It

also

rev

eale

d th

at t

he v

otin

gm

achi

nes

of p

oor

blac

k ar

eas

wer

e so

defe

ctiv

e th

at m

any

of t

heir

vote

s w

ere

not c

ount

ed, i

nclu

ding

in p

ast e

lect

ions

.

In m

y re

adin

g, t

he in

tern

al t

rans

form

a-tio

n of

the

stat

e ap

para

tus

– g

row

ing

dis-

tanc

e an

d as

ymm

etry

bet

wee

n th

e po

wer

of t

he e

xecu

tive/

prim

e m

inis

ter

and

hol-

low

ing

out o

f leg

isla

ture

s/pa

rliam

ents

– is

one

indi

catio

n of

thi

s in

stitu

tiona

l de

cay

of "l

iber

al d

emoc

raci

es".

Aga

in, t

he U

S is

an e

xtre

me

case

of

this

dec

ay.

You

inS

wed

en h

ave

wor

king

inst

itutio

ns, a

s do

man

y of

the

Eur

opea

n co

untri

es.

The

chan

ge in

the

publ

ic-p

rivat

e di

visi

on th

at I

spok

e of

ear

lier

is a

noth

er i

ndic

atio

n of

inst

itutio

nal d

ecay

in li

bera

l dem

ocra

cy.

In th

e ca

se o

f the

sys

tem

s yo

u m

entio

nin

you

r qu

estio

n, s

yste

ms

pred

icat

ed o

npr

ivat

izin

g "le

gal"

proc

esse

s, th

is c

omes

dow

n to

an

expl

osio

n de

ep i

nsid

e th

ein

stitu

tions

of l

iber

al d

emoc

racy

– a

kin

dof

sub

terra

nean

exp

losi

on o

f w

hich

we

are

only

se

eing

th

e m

ost

supe

rfici

alre

verb

erat

ions

, an

d m

ost

peop

le b

arel

yre

cogn

ize

them

. I g

o on

and

on

abou

t thi

sin

the

new

boo

k –

it is

diff

icul

t to

addr

ess

in a

few

wor

ds p

reci

sely

bec

ause

it

ism

ade

up o

f man

y (I

coun

ted

over

a h

un-

dred

) sm

all,

spec

ializ

ed,

ofte

n in

visi

ble

exce

pt if

you

are

par

t of t

hem

, leg

al s

ys-

tem

s th

at f

unct

ion

in v

ario

us w

ays

atle

ast

partl

y ou

tsid

e th

e fra

min

g of

the

natio

nal s

tate

. The

se a

re m

ostly

ver

y pa

r-tia

l rat

her t

han

holis

tic a

nd m

ostly

priv

ate

syst

ems

of ju

stic

e an

d pr

ivat

e sy

stem

s of

auth

ority

.

In m

y re

sear

ch fo

r the

new

boo

k, I

foun

ddo

zens

of s

uch

priv

ate

syst

ems.

To th

is w

e sh

ould

pro

babl

y ad

d th

e ne

wki

nds

of s

upra

natio

nal

and

glob

al s

ys-

tem

s th

at b

egin

to e

at a

way

at t

he c

entra

l

[75]

cism

of

the

glob

al ju

stic

e m

ovem

ent,

ofin

stitu

tions

lik

e th

e W

TO a

nd t

he I

MF,

and

its d

eman

ds f

or m

ore

trans

pare

ncy

and

a de

moc

ratiz

atio

n of

glo

bal

inst

itu-

tions

, can

pla

y a

posi

tive

role

in th

is?

SS

: Yes

, def

inite

ly. I

thin

k on

e cr

itica

l ele

-m

ent

is t

he n

otio

n of

rep

osse

ssin

g th

est

ate

appa

ratu

s fo

r ge

nuin

e lib

eral

dem

ocra

cy.

The

liber

al s

tate

has

bee

nhi

jack

ed

for

neol

iber

al

agen

das,

an

dev

en n

ew t

ypes

of

very

mod

ern

desp

o-tis

ms.

By

this

I m

ean

desp

otis

ms

that

are

less

hea

vy-h

ande

d, m

ore

inte

rmed

iate

dth

roug

h pr

opag

anda

mac

hine

ries,

etc

.

My

pref

erre

d ve

rsio

n is

a d

enat

iona

lized

stat

e. I

am n

ot k

een

on n

atio

nalis

ms.

Ano

ther

crit

ical

ele

men

t is

the

not

ion

Ita

lked

abo

ut e

arlie

r: th

at th

e fo

rmal

pol

iti-

cal

appa

ratu

s ac

com

mod

ates

les

s an

dle

ss o

f the

pol

itica

l and

hen

ce th

e gr

ow-

ing

impo

rtanc

e of

info

rmal

pol

itica

l act

ors

and

polit

ical

stru

ggle

s. I

see

a lo

t of t

his

emer

ging

.

Bes

ides

wha

t I s

aid

earli

er, t

hese

pol

itics

also

incl

ude

a so

rt of

den

atio

naliz

ing

ofth

e cl

aim

to th

e rig

ht to

hav

e rig

hts.

And

,at

the

othe

r end

, a p

oliti

cs o

f the

righ

ts to

the

city

, w

hich

mak

es p

oliti

cs c

oncr

ete

and

dem

ocra

tic,

and

also

has

the

effe

ctof

den

atio

naliz

ing

polit

ics

– t

his

is n

otab

out

excl

usiv

e al

legi

ance

to

the

stat

e,th

is is

abo

ut a

den

atio

naliz

ed p

oliti

cs.

MW

: The

title

of y

our n

ew b

ook

indi

cate

sth

at th

e co

ncep

t of "

asse

mbl

ages

" is

cen-

tral t

o yo

ur a

naly

sis.

Wha

t rol

e do

es th

isco

ncep

t ha

ve f

or t

he d

escr

iptio

n of

the

hier

arch

ies

of p

ower

in

toda

y's

wor

ld?

And

how

doe

s it

rela

te t

o yo

ur e

arlie

rre

sear

ch o

n th

e gl

obal

city

?

SS

: Ake

y ye

t muc

h ov

erlo

oked

feat

ure

ofth

e cu

rrent

per

iod

is th

e m

ultip

licat

ion

ofa

broa

d ra

nge

of p

artia

l, of

ten

high

ly s

pe-

cial

ized

, cr

oss-

bord

er s

yste

ms

for

gov-

erni

ng a

var

iety

of p

roce

sses

bot

h in

side

and

acro

ss n

atio

n-st

ates

. The

se s

yste

ms

incl

ude

at o

ne e

nd o

f th

e sp

ectru

m p

ri-va

te s

yste

ms

such

as

the

lex

cons

truct

io-

nis

– a

priv

ate

"law

" de

velo

ped

by t

hem

ajor

en

gine

erin

g co

mpa

nies

in

th

ew

orld

to

esta

blis

h a

com

mon

mod

e of

deal

ing

with

the

stre

ngth

enin

g of

env

iron-

men

tal s

tand

ards

in th

e co

untri

es w

here

they

are

bui

ldin

g. A

t the

oth

er e

nd o

f the

spec

trum

, the

y in

clud

e th

e fir

st e

ver g

lob-

al p

ublic

cou

rt, th

e In

tern

atio

nal C

rimin

alC

ourt,

whi

ch is

not

par

t of

the

sup

rana

-tio

nal s

yste

m a

nd h

as u

nive

rsal

juris

dic-

tion

amon

g si

gnat

ory

coun

tries

. B

eyon

dth

e di

vers

ity o

f th

ese

syst

ems,

the

re i

sth

e in

crea

sing

ly w

eigh

ty fa

ct o

f the

ir nu

m-

bers

– o

ver

125

acco

rdin

g to

the

bes

tre

cent

cou

nt.

The

prol

ifera

tion

of t

hese

syst

ems

does

not

rep

rese

nt t

he e

nd o

fna

tiona

l sta

tes,

but

they

do

begi

n to

dis

-as

sem

ble

bits

and

pie

ces

of th

e na

tiona

l.

Em

phas

izin

g th

is m

ultip

licat

ion

of p

artia

lsy

stem

s co

ntra

sts

with

muc

h of

the

glob

-al

izat

ion

liter

atur

e th

at h

as f

ocus

ed o

nw

hat a

re a

t bes

t brid

ging

eve

nts,

suc

h as

the

rein

vent

ed IM

F or

the

crea

tion

of th

eW

TO.

Rat

her

than

th

e tra

nsfo

rmat

ion

itsel

f. Th

e ac

tual

dyn

amic

s be

ing

shap

edar

e fa

r de

eper

and

mor

e ra

dica

l th

ansu

ch e

ntiti

es a

s th

e W

TO o

r th

e IM

F, n

om

atte

r how

pow

erfu

l the

y ar

e as

foot

sol

-di

ers.

The

se in

stitu

tions

sho

uld

rath

er b

eco

ncei

ved

of a

s ha

ving

pow

erfu

l cap

abil-

ities

in th

e m

akin

g of

a n

ew o

rder

– th

eyar

e in

stru

men

ts, n

ot th

e ne

w o

rder

itse

lf.S

imila

rly, t

he B

retto

n W

oods

sys

tem

was

a po

wer

ful

inst

rum

ent

that

fa

cilit

ated

[74]au

thor

ity a

nd t

he c

entri

peta

l fo

rces

tha

tm

arke

d th

e na

tion-

stat

e, t

he p

roje

ct o

fth

e na

tion-

stat

e. In

this

new

land

scap

e I

incl

ude

info

rmal

glo

bal s

yste

ms,

tha

t is

,sy

stem

s no

t ru

nnin

g th

roug

h th

e in

ter-

stat

e or

sup

rana

tiona

l ins

titut

iona

l wor

ld.

Am

ong

thes

e ar

e, fo

r ex

ampl

e, th

e va

ri-ou

s gl

obal

net

wor

ks o

f ac

tivis

ts (

on t

heen

viro

nmen

t, so

cial

just

ice,

hum

an ri

ghts

,et

c). I

als

o in

clud

e th

e em

erge

nce

of s

ub-

ject

iviti

es t

hat

are

not

enca

sed

by t

hena

tiona

l –

the

y ov

erflo

w t

he n

atio

nal.

Som

e of

this

is a

ctua

lly v

ery

posi

tive,

as

it de

natio

naliz

es t

he n

atio

nal.

In o

ther

wor

ds, t

hese

glo

bal s

yste

ms

incl

ude

neg-

ativ

e an

d po

sitiv

e ne

twor

ks fr

om m

y pe

r-sp

ectiv

e.

But

this

als

o be

gins

to e

at a

way

at s

ome

of th

e fo

unda

tiona

l arc

hite

ctur

e of

libe

ral

parti

cipa

tory

dem

ocra

cies

. C

lear

ly t

hese

trend

s ar

e fa

r m

ore

deve

lope

d in

som

eco

untri

es th

an in

oth

ers.

MW

: Sov

erei

gn a

utho

rity

can

be s

een

asst

ate

sove

reig

nty,

but

als

o as

pop

ular

sove

reig

nty

– t

he c

olle

ctiv

e se

lf-re

aliz

a-tio

n of

the

peop

le, i

n co

ntra

st to

mer

e te

r-rit

oria

l con

trol.

Is t

here

any

diff

eren

ce in

how

"de

-nat

iona

lizat

ion"

exe

rts a

n in

flu-

ence

on

thes

e di

ffere

nt k

inds

of

sove

r-ei

gnty

?

SS

: The

re is

a re

volu

tiona

ry c

laus

e in

all

the

new

co

nstit

utio

ns

fram

ed

in

the

1990

s –

A

rgen

tina,

B

razi

l, U

rugu

ay,

Sou

th A

frica

, the

cen

tral E

urop

ean

coun

-tri

es, a

nd s

ome

othe

rs. I

t has

got

ten

very

little

atte

ntio

n, w

hich

sur

pris

es m

e. It

say

sth

at t

he s

over

eign

(th

e st

ate,

in t

he la

n-gu

age

of in

tern

atio

nal l

aw) e

ven

if de

mo-

crat

ical

ly e

lect

ed c

anno

t pr

esum

e to

be

the

excl

usiv

e re

pres

enta

tive

of it

s pe

ople

in in

tern

atio

nal f

ora.

Wha

t lie

s be

hind

this

is th

e cl

aim

mak

ing

(bac

k to

my

info

rmal

polit

ics)

by

a va

riety

of g

roup

s th

at d

o no

tw

ant t

o be

mer

ged

into

som

e so

rt of

col

-le

ctiv

e id

entit

y re

pres

ente

d by

the

sta

te.

We

can

thin

k of

fir

st-n

atio

n pe

ople

s,m

inor

itize

d ci

tizen

s of

all

sorts

, new

type

sof

fem

inis

ms

that

are

tran

snat

iona

l, po

lit-

ical

dis

sent

ers,

and

pro

babl

y al

l kin

ds o

fot

her

acto

rs n

ow i

n th

e m

akin

g, a

s w

esp

eak.

This

cla

use

is r

evol

utio

nary

in

that

it

goes

bey

ond,

inde

ed, c

onte

sts,

the

maj

orac

hiev

emen

t of t

he F

renc

h an

d A

mer

ican

revo

lutio

ns,

whi

ch w

as t

o po

sit

that

the

peop

le a

re th

e so

vere

ign

and

the

sove

r-ei

gn is

the

peo

ple.

The

ach

ieve

men

t of

thes

e ea

rlier

revo

lutio

ns w

as to

elim

inat

eth

e di

stan

ce b

etw

een

the

peop

le a

nd a

puta

tivel

y di

vine

sov

erei

gn (s

tate

).

This

sig

nals

for

me

the

begi

nnin

g of

are

cons

titut

ing

of s

over

eign

ty.

With

the

notio

n of

den

atio

naliz

atio

n I t

ryto

cap

ture

and

mak

e vi

sibl

e a

mix

of

dyna

mic

s th

at is

als

o al

terin

g so

vere

ignt

ybu

t is

doin

g so

from

the

insi

de o

ut, a

nd o

nth

e gr

ound

, so

to

spea

k –

the

mul

tiple

mic

ro-p

roce

sses

tha

t ar

e re

orie

ntin

g th

ehi

stor

ic n

atio

nal p

roje

ct to

war

ds th

e ne

wgl

obal

pro

ject

. Nat

iona

l sta

te p

olic

ies

may

still

be c

ouch

ed i

n th

e la

ngua

ge o

f th

ena

tiona

l, bu

t at

lea

st s

ome

of t

hem

no

long

er

are:

th

ey

are

now

or

ient

edto

war

ds b

uild

ing

glob

al s

yste

ms

insi

deth

e na

tiona

l sta

te.

From

the

re,

then

, th

ete

rm d

enat

iona

lizat

ion.

MW

: Is

it po

ssib

le to

dis

cern

any

cou

nter

-po

wer

s on

the

glob

al le

vel,

wor

king

to re

-in

stitu

te th

e fu

ndam

enta

l prin

cipl

es o

f the

liber

al-d

emoc

ratic

(n

atio

n)

stat

e on

a

glob

al le

vel?

Do

you

thin

k th

at t

he c

riti-

[77]

natio

nal c

apita

l. S

trict

ly s

peak

ing,

ther

e is

no le

gal p

erso

na fo

r th

e gl

obal

firm

. But

ther

e is

a g

loba

l sp

ace

for

thei

r op

era-

tions

, a g

loba

l spa

ce th

at is

the

resu

lt of

stat

es d

enat

iona

lizin

g bi

ts a

nd p

iece

s of

thei

r na

tiona

l sys

tem

s –

it t

ook

a lo

t of

wor

k by

ove

r a h

undr

ed s

tate

s to

do

this

.Th

e hu

man

rig

hts

regi

me

offe

rs a

noth

erty

pe o

f exa

mpl

e. W

hen

a ju

dge

or a

pla

in-

tiff u

ses

hum

an r

ight

s in

a n

atio

nal c

ourt

for

a na

tiona

l cou

rt ca

se, i

t par

tly, a

nd in

very

spe

cial

ized

way

s, d

enat

iona

lizes

ana

tiona

l law

sys

tem

.

By

the

way

, thi

s, a

gain

, poi

nts

to th

e m

ul-

tival

ence

of m

any

of th

e ke

y ca

tego

ries

Iha

ve

deve

lope

d to

do

m

y ty

pe

ofre

sear

ch.

The

dena

tiona

lizin

g th

at h

ap-

pens

thro

ugh

the

dem

ands

of g

loba

l firm

sis

not

so

good

, whe

reas

the

dena

tiona

liz-

ing

that

ha

ppen

s th

roug

h th

e us

e of

hum

an r

ight

s in

nat

iona

l co

urts

is

very

inte

rest

ing,

and

mos

tly p

ositi

ve.

Thes

e ar

e ju

st t

wo

exam

ples

of

how

Iw

ork.

It

is,

thus

, qu

ite d

iffer

ent

from

just

focu

sing

on

the

glob

al p

er s

e. F

ocus

ing

on t

he g

loba

l fir

m o

r th

e hu

man

rig

hts

regi

me

as g

loba

l ent

ities

is c

ritic

al. B

ut it

need

s to

be

dist

ingu

ishe

d fro

m th

e m

ak-

ing

of t

hat

poss

ibilit

y. I

am

inte

rest

ed in

the

mak

ing.

I th

ink

this

app

roac

h al

so h

asco

nseq

uenc

es f

or p

oliti

cs:

we

can

per-

form

glo

bal p

oliti

cs th

roug

h na

tiona

l sta

tein

stitu

tions

– a

nd i

n so

doi

ng,

will,

of

cour

se,

partl

y de

natio

naliz

e ou

r st

ate,

whi

ch is

fine

with

me

as it

beg

ins

to b

uild

a m

ulti-

site

d in

frast

ruct

ure

for g

loba

l pol

i-tic

s –

a g

loba

l pol

itics

that

run

s th

roug

hlo

caliz

ed s

ites

rath

er th

an a

wor

ld s

tate

.

This

in

terv

iew

w

as

first

pu

blis

hed

inFr

ones

is.

Not

es1.

Sas

kia

Sas

sen,

Te

rrito

ry,

auth

ority

,rig

hts:

Fro

m m

edie

val

to g

loba

l as

sem

-bl

ages

, Prin

ceto

n U

nive

rsity

Pre

ss, 2

006.

[76]som

e of

the

new

glo

bal

form

atio

ns t

hat

emer

ged

in th

e 19

80s

but w

as n

ot it

self

the

begi

nnin

g of

the

new

ord

er a

s is

ofte

nas

serte

d.

Thes

e cr

oss-

bord

er s

yste

ms

amou

nt to

parti

cula

rized

ass

embl

ages

of b

its o

f ter

-rit

ory,

aut

horit

y, a

nd ri

ghts

that

use

d to

be

part

of m

ore

diffu

se in

stitu

tiona

l dom

ains

with

in t

he n

atio

n-st

ate

or,

at t

imes

, th

esu

pran

atio

nal s

yste

m. I

see

in th

is p

rolif

-er

atio

n of

sp

ecia

lized

as

sem

blag

es

ate

nden

cy to

war

d a

mix

ing

of c

onst

itutiv

eru

les

once

sol

idly

lod

ged

in t

he n

atio

n-st

ate

proj

ect.

Thes

e no

vel a

ssem

blag

esar

e pa

rtial

and

ofte

n hi

ghly

spe

cial

ized

,ce

nter

ed in

par

ticul

ar u

tiliti

es a

nd p

urpo

s-es

. Th

eir

emer

genc

e an

d pr

olife

ratio

nbr

ing

seve

ral

sign

ifica

nt c

onse

quen

ces

even

tho

ugh

this

is a

par

tial,

not

an a

ll-en

com

pass

ing

deve

lopm

ent.

They

ar

epo

tent

ially

pro

foun

dly

unse

ttlin

g fo

r w

hat

are

still

th

e pr

eval

ent

inst

itutio

nal

arra

ngem

ents

– n

atio

n-st

ates

and

the

supr

anat

iona

l sy

stem

. Th

ey p

rom

ote

am

ultip

licat

ion

of d

iver

se s

patio

-tem

pora

lfra

min

gs a

nd d

iver

se n

orm

ativ

e or

ders

whe

re

once

th

e do

min

ant

logi

c w

asto

war

d pr

oduc

ing

unita

ry n

atio

nal s

patia

l,te

mpo

ral,

and

norm

ativ

e fra

min

gs.

This

pro

lifer

atio

n of

spe

cial

ized

ord

ers

exte

nds

even

insi

de th

e st

ate

appa

ratu

s.I

argu

e th

at w

e ca

n no

long

er s

peak

of

"the"

sta

te,

and

henc

e of

"th

e" n

atio

nal

stat

e ve

rsus

"the

" glo

bal o

rder

. We

see

ano

vel

type

of

segm

enta

tion

insi

de t

hest

ate

appa

ratu

s,

with

a

grow

ing

and

incr

easi

ngly

priv

atiz

ed e

xecu

tive

bran

chof

gov

ernm

ent a

ligne

d w

ith s

peci

fic g

lob-

al

acto

rs,

notw

ithst

andi

ng

natio

nalis

tsp

eech

es, a

nd w

e se

e a

hollo

win

g ou

t of

legi

slat

ures

whi

ch i

ncre

asin

gly

beco

me

conf

ined

to

few

er a

nd m

ore

dom

estic

mat

ters

. Th

is r

ealig

nmen

t w

eake

ns t

heca

paci

ty o

f citi

zens

to d

eman

d ac

coun

ta-

bilit

y fro

m t

he e

xecu

tive

and

it pa

rtly

erod

es th

e pr

ivac

y rig

hts

of c

itize

ns –

ahi

stor

ic s

hift

of th

e pr

ivat

e-pu

blic

div

isio

nat

the

hea

rt of

the

lib

eral

sta

te,

albe

ital

way

s an

impe

rfect

div

isio

n.

MW

: Lat

ely,

sev

eral

"gr

and

narra

tives

" of

glob

aliz

atio

n ha

ve b

een

form

ulat

ed b

yth

eoris

ts

such

as

M

anue

l C

aste

lls,

Mic

hael

H

ardt

, an

d A

nton

io

Neg

ri.

Inw

hat w

ays

does

you

r ow

n th

eory

rese

m-

ble,

or d

iffer

from

, the

se?

SS

: I s

hare

muc

h w

ith th

em, a

nd I

know

them

all.

The

re i

s m

uch

polit

ical

tru

stam

ong

us. B

ut s

ince

you

ask

abo

ut p

os-

sibl

e th

eore

tical

di

ffere

nces

, le

t m

ean

swer

. One

way

of s

tarti

ng is

to s

ay th

atth

eir e

ffort

has

been

to m

ap th

e em

erge

ntgl

obal

. A

nd I

agr

ee w

ith w

hat

they

see

and

the

impo

rtanc

e th

ey g

ive

to th

is g

lob-

al. B

ut th

at is

not

wha

t I a

m d

oing

.

Very

brie

fly,

my

stru

ggle

ove

r th

e la

sttw

enty

yea

rs h

as b

een

to g

o be

yond

the

self-

evid

ent

glob

al s

cale

, an

d de

tect

the

glob

al a

t sub

-nat

iona

l lev

els.

Fro

m th

ere

com

es m

y co

ncep

t of t

he g

loba

l city

, for

inst

ance

. O

ne w

ay o

f pu

tting

it is

tha

t I

like

to g

o di

ggin

g in

the

pen

umbr

a of

mas

ter

cate

gorie

s.

The

glob

al

has

beco

me

a m

aste

r ca

tego

ry,

and

is s

obl

indi

ngly

cle

ar th

at it

put

s a

lot o

f pla

ces,

acto

rs, a

nd d

ynam

ics

in a

dee

p sh

adow

.M

y cu

rrent

wor

k on

the

den

atio

naliz

edst

ate

– n

o m

atte

r ho

w in

tens

e th

e re

na-

tiona

lizin

g al

so

is

–

is

yet

anot

her

inst

ance

of t

he g

loba

l tha

t is

not s

elf-e

vi-

dent

ly g

loba

l. I a

m in

tere

sted

in th

e w

ays

in w

hich

the

glob

al m

ight

be

endo

geno

usto

the

natio

nal.

For e

xam

ple,

muc

h gl

ob-

al

capi

tal

is

actu

ally

de

natio

naliz

ed