CIA Trial Transcripts Day 1

8/8/2019 CIA Trial Transcripts Day 1

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Transcription of Grand Jury TestimonyMay 14, 2010

Unintelligible phrases are marked with a question mark in brackets [?], followed by dashes representingthe approximate number of words that are unintelligible: [?----] means that approximately four words are

unintelligible in the phrase.

Participants: Rev. Dr. James David ManningJudge Bob UngerAnthony JonesKurt D. WalterBilly DeansRudy DavisEmory VossTeresa HineWilliam J. DonovanDenise Handling

Terry PetitKelly TerrellErin HobsonDavid LansfordBenjie GarcedTommy AlcreeEva Bowman

Unidentified Speaker:

Bob Unger takes the bench.

Judge Bob Unger:

Be seated. Can everyone hear me? Okay. Let me just make it clear from the beginning that there isgoing to be order here that will be imposed either voluntarily or involuntarily. We're not here to shout outthings and disrupt anything. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there will be no tolerance ofanybody disrupting order, and if anyone does, they'll be removed forthwith. Hopefully that won't benecessary and people will hopefully remember the manners they were supposed to have been taught whenthey were five years old.

We can proceed. I believe that the first order of business would be to read the indictment. Everyone canhear me clearly? Okay. Luckily I used Hooked on Phonics so I can read this to you as quickly andexpeditiously as possible.

We the People's Court, State of New York, County of New York, against Barack Hussein Obama,Defendant Columbia University, Defendant Michael Sovern, Defendant. Count one, Treason. BarackHussein Obama, who owes allegiance to the United States, by virtue of his actual albeit unlawful exerciseof the powers of the presidency of the United States, and not by lawful citizenship therein, did commit


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treason against the United States of America in that during time of war he assumed the office of Presidentof the United States knowing that he is not a natural born citizen and is therefore ineligible to hold thatesteemed office and to wit has exercised the powers of that office unlawfully, and more specifically hasavailed himself by deceit to a continued access to the most sensitive intelligence of the government of theUnited States in violation of Article 3, Section 3 of the Constitution of the United States and United StatesCode hereinafter referred to as U.S.C. 18 U.S.C. 2381 which respectively read, Article 3, Section 3,

United States Constitution. Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war againstthem or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted oftreason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act or on confession in open court. TheCongress shall have the power to declare the punishment of treason but no attainder of treason shall workcorruption of blood, of forfeiture except during the life of the person attained.

18 U.S.C. 2381. Whosoever owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres totheir enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason andshall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than$10,000 and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Count two. Treason. Columbia University, a not-for-profit corporation in New York owing allegiance to

the United States by virtue of its being domiciled therein and having acknowledged that Barack HusseinObama is not natural born and is unlawful in occupation of the office of President of the United Statesand that he holds said office in time of war and therefore has access to the most sensitive and top secretnational security information of the United States of America, has unlawfully committed treason byconcealing his identity and the fact of his not being natural born in violation of Article 3 Section 3 of theConstitution of the United States and 18 U.S.C. 2381.

Count three. Mail fraud and swindles. Barack Hussein Obama did commit criminal acts of fraud againstthe people of the United States of America in violation of 18 U.S.C. 1341. Said statute stating thefollowing: Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or forobtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, or tosell, dispose of, loan, exchange, alter, give away, distribute, supply, or furnish or procure for unlawful use

any counterfeit or spurious coin, obligation, security, or other article, or anything represented to be orintimated or held out to be such counterfeit or spurious article, for the purpose of executing such schemeor artifice or attempting so to do, places in any post office or authorized depository for mail or any matteror thing whatever to be sent or delivered by the Postal Service, or deposits or causes to be deposited anymatter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by any private or commercial interstate carrier, or takes orreceives therefrom, any such matter or thing, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail or such carrieraccording to the direction thereon, or at the place at which it is directed to be delivered by the person towhom it is addressed, any such matter or thing, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than20 years, or both. If the violation occurs in relation to, or involving any benefit authorized, transported,transmitted, transferred, disbursed, or paid in connection with a presidentially declared major disaster oremergency, or affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 orimprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

By seeking funds either personally or through authorized agents for his presidential candidacy, throughsolicitations placed in and transmitted by the United States Postal Service and furthermore by actuallyreceiving either directly or through any political organization, incorporated or structured for the purposeof advancing his candidacy for President of the United States or other authorized agents, said funds beingdelivered by the United States Postal Service while knowing that he was not natural born and ineligible toeither seek the office of President or actually be President, Barack Hussein Obama did commit criminalacts of fraud with each item placed in the mail soliciting funds and with each piece of mail received with


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money induced by said solicitation and by each act of depositing said funds in any bank or other financialinstitution.

Count four. Conspiracy to commit mail fraud. Columbia University did conspire with Barack HusseinObama to commit acts of mail fraud in that it did have knowledge that Barack Hussein Obama did solicitand receive money from the general public for the purpose of campaigning for the office of President of

the United States and it did further know that Barack Hussein Obama was not a natural born citizen andtherefore not eligible to be President of the United States and by knowingly and willing, in collusion withhim, concealing the identity of Barack Hussein Obama, it did aid and abet him in criminal violation ofU.S.C. 18, 1341.

Count five. Fraud by wire, radio, television. Barack Hussein Obama did commit criminal acts inviolation of 18 U.S.C. 1343 which reads, to wit: Whoever, having devised or intending to devise anyscheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of wire, radio, or televisioncommunications in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the

purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined notmore than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

Barack Hussein Obama did violate said statue by soliciting and in fact either personally or through hisagents receiving funds for his presidential campaign and depositing said funds in banking and otherfinancial institutions, said funds, being solicited through the mediums of television, wire and radio, whilehe knew that he was not natural born and ineligible to serve in the office of President of the United States.

Count six. Conspiracy to commit fraud by wire, radio, or television. Columbia University did know thatBarack Hussein Obama did solicit funds for the purpose of campaigning for President of the United Statesand that he did commit acts of fraud and that he was ineligible to occupy said office not being a natural

born citizen and did in collusion with him knowingly and willfully conceal his identity as a foreignnational in violation of law.

Count seven. Obstruction of justice. Columbia University is guilty of obstruction of justice and the crimeof false statements pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 1001 which reads: a) Except as otherwise provided in thissection, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch ofthe Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully (1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by anytrick, scheme, or device a material fact, makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement orrepresentation or (2) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain anymaterially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry shall be fined under this title, imprisoned notmore than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined by Section2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both.

Columbia University did knowingly and willfully violate the statute in that it concealed the material factthat came within the jurisdiction of the executive branch of the government of the United States. And tha

by knowing that Barack Hussein Obama was not a natural born citizen of the United States, it had anaffirmative duty to release information that would otherwise be confidential. Specifically, his collegeapplications, report cards, and other information within his possession tending to show his nationality andthat he has continually committed the offense of obstruction of justice by said concealment from 10February, 2007 when Barack Hussein Obama announced his candidacy for the presidency of the UnitedStates to present thereby aiding one not natural born in illegally obtaining and operating in the office ofthe chief of state of the United States of America.


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Count eight. Conspiracy to defraud the United States government and obstruct justice. ColumbiaUniversity is guilty of the crime of conspiracy to obstruct justice pursuant to United States Criminal Code371 which reads, to wit: If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the UnitedStates, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and oneor more of such do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title orimprisoned not more than five years, or both.

Barack Hussein Obama, a foreign national, not natural born, did defraud the government of the UnitedStates by unlawfully taking the oath of office as President of the United States and assuming the powersthereof. Columbia University did willfully conspire with Barack Hussein Obama in violation of 18U.S.C. 371 to create the illusion that he was a student at Columbia University and a natural born citizenand maintaining that illusion from 20 January 2009 even until the present, even though they know that heis not a natural born citizen thus enabling him to exercise the powers of the presidency unlawfully and

putting the national security of this nation in peril.

Count nine. Espionage. Barack Hussein Obama is guilty of the act of espionage in violation of 18 U.S.C.793(e) which reads, to wit: (e) Whoever lawfully having possession of, access to, control over, or beingentrusted with any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative,

blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or informationrelating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to theinjury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers,transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, the same to any person not entitled toreceive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the UnitedStates entitled to receive it shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years or both.

By causing himself to be entrusted with information which he is not lawfully entitled to, not beingeligible to be President because he is not a naturally born citizen and then transmitting said information to

persons not entitled to receive it, Barack Hussein Obama is guilty of violation of Count nine of thisindictment.

Count ten. Espionage. Columbia University is in violation of 18 U.S.C. 793(g) which states, to wit: Iftwo or more persons conspire to violate any of the foregoing provisions of this section, and one or moreof such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each of the parties to such conspiracyshall be subject to the punishment provided for the offense which is the object of the conspiracy. Byknowingly and willfully in collusion with him concealing the identify of Barack Hussein Obama as aforeign national, the Columbia University continually aides and abets Barack Hussein Obama in thecommission of the crimes delineated in Count nine and is subject to the same punishment.

Count eleven, Espionage. Barack Hussein Obama is in violation of 18 U.S.C. 794 which reads, to wit:(a) Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or tothe advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate,deliver, or transmit, to any foreign government, or to any faction or party or military or naval force within

a foreign government or to any faction or party or military or naval force within a foreign country whetherrecognized or unrecognized by the United States, or to any representative, officer, agent, employee,subject, or citizen thereof, either directly or indirectly, any document, writing, code book, signal book,sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, note, instrument, appliance, orinformation relating to the national defense, shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for any termsof years or for life, except that the sentence of death shall not be imposed unless the jury or, if there is no

jury, the court, further finds that the offense resulted in the identification by a foreign power (as defined insection 101(a) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978) of an individual acting as an agent ofthe United States and consequently in the death of that individual, or directly concerned nuclear


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weaponry, military spacecraft or satellites, early warning systems, or other means of defense or retaliationagainst large-scale attack war plans communications, intelligence or cryptographic information or anyother major weapons system or major element of defense strategy.

(b) Whoever, in time of war, with intent that the same shall be communicated to the enemy, collects,records, publishes, or communicates, or attempts to elicit any information with respect to the movement,

numbers, description, condition, or disposition of any of the Armed Forces, ships, aircraft, or warmaterials of the United States, or with respect to the plans or conduct, or supposed plans or conduct ofany naval or military operations, or with respect to any works or measures undertaken for or connectedwith, or intended for the fortification or defense of any place, or any other information related to the

public defense, which might be useful to the enemy, shall be punishable by death or by imprisonment forany term of years or for life.

Barack Hussein Obama by virtue of his not being natural born has violated both sections (a) and (b) of theabove statute by unlawfully communicating information obtained by virtue of acting as President of theUnited States.

Count twelve. Conspiracy to commit espionage. By unlawfully and in collusion with him concealing his

identity as not natural born and continuing that concealment even as Barack Hussein Obama occupies theoffice of President of the United States, Columbia University has unlawfully aided and abetted the sameBarack Hussein Obama in his criminal violations of 18 U.S.C. 794.

Count thirteen. Disclosure of classified information. Barack Hussein Obama did commit the crime ofunlawful disclosure of classified material in violation of 18 U.S.C. 798 which states, to wit: (a) Whoeverknowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to anyunauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the UnitedStates or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classifiedinformation, (1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system ofthe United States or any foreign government or (2) concerning the design, construction, use,maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the

United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes or(3) concerning the communication intelligent activities of the United States or any foreign governmentknowing the same to have been obtained by such processes (4) obtain by the processes of communicationintelligence from the communications of any foreign government knowing the same to have beenobtained by such processes shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

Barack Hussein Obama has knowingly and willfully allowed classified information to come into hishands knowing that he is not natural born and unqualified to lawfully receive such information inviolation of law.

Count fourteen. Conspiracy to disclose classified information. Columbia University did conspire withBarack Hussein Obama to unlawfully violate 18 U.S.C. 798 in that by unlawfully concealing his identity

as not natural born, they have knowingly enabled him in the violation of Count nine of this indictment.

Fifteen. Government seals unlawfully used. Barack Hussein Obama has since 20 January 2009 andcontinuing until present, violated 18 U.S.C. 1017 which states, to wit: Whoever fraudulently orwrongfully affixes or impresses the seal of any department or agency of the United States to or upon anycertificate, instrument, commission, document, or paper or with knowledge of its fraudulent character,with wrongful or fraudulent intent, uses, buys, procures, sells, or transfers to another any such certificate,instrument, commission, document, or paper, to which or upon which said seal has been so fraudulentlyaffixed or impressed, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.


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By affixing the presidential seal without authorization to all documents transmitted between thepresidential office and the Congress, Barack Hussein Obama did and continues to willfully andknowingly violate law.

Sixteen. Conspiracy to violate 18 U.S.C. 1017. By knowingly and willfully concealing the identity of

Barack Hussein Obama as a foreign national, not a naturally born citizen, the Columbia University didknowingly and willfully aide and abet him in criminal violation of 18 U.S.C. 1017.

Seventeen. Violation of New York State Education Law Section 224. Barack Hussein Obama did violateSection 224 of the Education Law of New York State which states: Section 2. No person shall buy, sell,or fraudulently or illegally make or alter, give, issue, or obtain or attempt to obtain by fraudulent means,any diploma, certificate, or other instrument purporting to confer any literary, scientific, professional, orother degree or to constitute any license or duplicate thereof or any certificate of registration or the certifyto the completion in whole or in part of any course of study in any university, college, academy, or othereducational institution. Section 4. No diploma or degree shall be conferred in this state except by aregularly organized institution of learning meeting all requirements by law and of the university. Norshall any person with intent to deceive falsely represent himself to have received any such degree or

credential nor shall any person append to his name any letters in the same form registered by the regionsas entitled to the protection afforded to university degrees unless he shall have received from a dulyauthorized institution the degree or certificate for which the letters are registered. Counterfeiting or falselyor without authority making or altering in a material respect any such credential issued under seal shall bea felony. Any other violation of this section shall be a misdemeanor. And any person who aides or abetsanother or advertises of offers himself to violate the provisions of this section shall be liable to the same

penalties.

Barack Hussein Obama illegally obtained a degree from Columbia University without completing theprescribed course of work or in fact ever being present on Columbia University grounds as a student andhas falsely represented himself to be a bona fide graduate of Columbia University without having fulfilledthe requirements for graduation.

Eighteen. Columbia University violation of New York State Education Law Section 224. The ColumbiaUniversity did violate Chapter 224, Section 2 of the Education Law of the State of New York in that it didunlawfully sell and did fraudulently make, give, and issue a diploma to Barack Hussein Obama certifyingthat he had completed a prescribed course of study and that he earned a Bachelor's Degree from ColumbiaUniversity. Furthermore, and in violation of Section 4 of the Education Law of the Sate of New York,Chapter 224, Columbia University did falsely make a degree which was conferred on Barack HusseinObama and did by concealing said information aid and abet in his misrepresentations that he completedthe prescribed course of study and earned a Bachelor's degree.

Nineteen. Michael Sovern. Michael Sovern, who served as President of Columbia University from 1980through 1983, was one of the specific agents of Columbia who colluded and conspired with the Columbia

University and Barack Obama and who actually oversaw the execution on behalf of Columbia Universityof its crimes, delineated in Counts 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, and 18 of this indictment. Wherefore, thisindictment is returned against Columbia University, Barack Hussein Obama, and Michael Sovern.

Counselor, would you like to present?

Anthony Jones:


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(inaudible) member of the prosecutorial staff (inaudible) penalty of perjury. On or about April 13th,2010, I caused to be personally delivered to the legal affairs department of Columbia University, whichoccupies the fourth floor of (inaudible) library at Columbia University an indictment which was refused

by the person who I ascertained, through questioning, was responsible for the receipt of said documents.The woman, who refused to give me her name, was approximately five fee, two inches tall, Caucasian,wore glasses, had an (inaudible) shaped nose, no distinguishing marks, brown eyes, and brunette hair.

I completed the service of process by placing a copy of the indictment in the front door of the legal affairsoffice. Furthermore, on said date, I caused to be delivered both by regular and express mail a copy of saidindictment to Robert Bower, the lawyer and counselor for one Barrack Hussein Obama, at the Office ofWhite House Counsel, by depositing the same in a sealed envelope and depositing the same in the UnitedStates Post Office. The certified mail receipt is attached herein.

Furthermore, Michael Sovern was personally served with a true copy of the indictment, to be delivered tohis offices at Columbia University Law School on Amsterdam Avenue and 116th Street and was- and thedocument was handed to his secretary, who was authorized to accept process on his behalf, the secretary

being named Mary Madag (ph) on 15 April 2010. This is made by affirmation instead of affidavit because I am an attorney duly licensed to practice law in this jurisdiction, date 8 May 2010, Anthony

Jones.

And just as an addendum, Your Honor, this day I caused to be placed at the defendant's table a true copyof the indictment. And we also have affidavits pertaining to all of the witnesses who have beensummoned to this court, and we submit this as part of the record.

Judge Bob Unger:

So submitted. Do we have any counsel for the defendant here? Do we have our jury pool?

Rev. Dr. James David Manning:

First, Your Honor, I want to take the time to thank you for accepting the challenge of presiding over thistrial and for having read the indictment and being a part of this entire process. Our heartfelt thanks goesout to you, and certainly the members of this audience, I'm sure, must feel the exact same way for JudgeUnger, taking this very valued position today.

Now we also would like to state that it is now time for the selection of the jury. We will have openingstatements after the jury has been selected. I wish to state that there are several charges within theindictment that we wish to delete immediately, so that it might be easier for you to reach the decision toserve as a juror, and also to reach a verdict. And those decisions, or those counts in the indictment, would

be the count of-- I think count number two, would be the act of treason, in the indictment- I'm sorry, counnumber one and count number two, the act of treason. We're going to recommend at this hour that thosecounts would be delineated from the indictment that was returned on the 24th of April, the year 2010.

Also the count of espionage, that would also have the same effect of a death penalty, that we wish at thistime to not have the jurors have to reach a decision on a matter that would indeed invoke the penalty fordeath.

We also believe that in going forward after a verdict is found, it is our intent as the prosecuting attorneythat we will find that the counts in this indictment are indeed true and that the defendants are both guilty,of Columbia University and also Barack Obama.


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And so as a result of our making further presentments, we're going to delete those charges of espionageand treason, or any act or account with this indictment that would lead to the penalty of death.

Having said that, we now want to have a call of those who have been registered to serve as jurors, and wewill then question you as to whether or not you are indeed eligible.

Now, we have a list of people here, and I pray that all are here, and let me just move to this lectern, if Imay. And Your Honor, for the purposes of addressing the jurors, I'd like to turn the lectern in thisdirection.

Well, first of all, let me just state, if you have volunteered as a juror, would you please stand. OK. Whydon't we ask you to, as the first 12 of you, would proceed to this jury box, take your seats, we'll ascertainyour names, and then start the deliberation.

OK, we have room for I think a few more in the rear. Now I have asked one of you who had decided toserve as a juror to not do so, the young man that had-- we have possibly appointed to serve as bailiff, youmay go to the jury pool, please. Thank you. Is there enough seating there for everybody? Looks a littletight over there.

OK. All right, inasmuch as stated by attorney Jones, that both defendants, Columbia University andBarack Obama, have been served with true bills of the indictment and they have chosen not to respond,we wish to acknowledge at this time of the selection of the jurors that there is no representation of thedefense, and so the prosecution would move forward on what we believe will be the best way to proceedwith jurors.

Now, if we could- I have the name of Kurt Walter (ph). Are you here? That's you. All right, Mr. Walterand I have your address- and let me also state, we had initially thought it would be prudent not to have

jurors on camera. We believe historically going forward that this case will be debated, your pictures willbe placed in some unsavory places, and in some historical and patriotic places, I believe, going forward, but we want to ask initially is there any juror who would have concerns about it being publicly noised

abroad that you served as a juror at this trial? If so, please make that known at this hour. By that, I meanif you are concerned for your welfare in serving at this time. You all look fairly solid you must be a realgood Manning crowd. Don't do anything further. Thank you for that.

All right, our first juror, Kurt D. Walter. Now you're a resident of the State of New York? Is thatcorrect?

Kurt D. Walter:

(inaudible)


Now, we have removed the charge of espionage, sedition, and treason, therefore, you will not have todeliberate on matters of capital punishment. But do you believe that you can be fair on all the othercounts, as read by the Honorable Bob Unger here today, in reaching a decision about Barack Obama andabout Columbia's guilt in the matter read in the indictment?

Kurt D. Walter:

Yes, I can.


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Can I also ask you-- have you-- can you honestly state whether or not you are already convinced that he isguilty of the charges in the indictment by virtue of information you've received regarding his citizenship,and therefore, all things guilty flows from that? Or can you, if evidence is proven that he is not guilty,

can you reach a decision, that you believe that is fair?

Kurt D. Walter:

(inaudible)


OK. So you haven't made up your mind, as of yet?

Kurt D. Walter:

(inaudible)


It's the most difficult question, and we certainly want-- we'll make further statements during the time ofour opening statements, and this process, of why this trial is going forward. Obviously there's been a lotof information about Obama but if you essentially believe that you can be fair, if tomorrow corporationcounsel walked in for Columbia-- for Barack Obama and Columbia University and began to demonstrateevidence contrary to what I, as prosecuting attorney, will present here, will you be able to rule in favor ofnot guilty for Obama?

Kurt D. Walter:

(inaudible)


So you feel that he is guilty already? All right, well, I think that, and I believe this court would agree, thatif you've already made up your mind, do you think that you could be convinced otherwise that he's notguilty?

Kurt D. Walter:

No, I cannot.


Now-

Kurt D. Walter:

(inaudible) I don't know, I've never been- served on a jury before.


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OK. Well, Kurt, let me express this to you-- let me express this to you. I realize you're being put on thespot, and I am purposefully putting you on the spot, as tightly as I possibly can, and the reason being isthat we want to conduct this trial-- I am convinced that the proceedings today and for the next few days inthis building will definitely not be ignored. In fact, they're being reported at present. We want to be

honest. We don't want to fall into the same trap of that which we are accusing Columbia and Obama of,of being dishonest and illegal. And so it's very important that we find, at the very least, even though youmay have a strong sense of his guilt, we need to know whether or not you can find him not guilty ifevidence warrants that. And if you can't do that, then we can't have you serve as juror.

Kurt D. Walter:

(inaudible) I just need it to be explained to me again (inaudible)


OK.

Kurt D. Walter:

(inaudible) I want to be-- I want to serve as a juror.


Yes, I understand.

Kurt D. Walter:

And everything is coming at me very fast, so--

Judge Bob Unger:

If I may, basically the question simply is this -- can you be fair and listen to what's presented, and factorin and synthesize that information and fairly make a judgment, or are you just so biased that if he wasaccused of robbing Chase Manhattan Bank, you would have already found him guilty?

Kurt D. Walter:

I feel like I can be very fair.


So, that's what we're looking at that's what we're looking for.

Kurt D. Walter:

I'm nervous.



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You're nervous? That's quite all right. We all are. Our country is nervous. We're going to settle it down,though, here and now.

One other question to Kurt, and I don't mean to make matters more difficult for you, in you're beingnervous -- are you a member of the Democrat or Republican Party?

Kurt D. Walter:

I am actually a member of the Republican Party (inaudible)


And how long have you been a registered member of the Republican Party?

Kurt D. Walter:

(inaudible) since December of 2009.


How did you first find out about this trial?

Kurt D. Walter:

Well, I was sent directly to a number of websites. Being on the campaign (inaudible) I was introduced tothe websites, and I saw some of your videos back in November, 2009. Ever since then, I have watchedthe videos and I think right there-- that got me more interested, so I started talking about it with manyother friends of mine. So I've known about the case that's going up against him for approximately(inaudible). I would say January or February of (inaudible) this year.


Just a couple of other questions. Do you have any political aspirations to run for any office, either locallystatewide, or federally?

Kurt D. Walter:

No, I do not.


And may I ask you what you do for a living?

Kurt D. Walter:

Currently, I-- I've actually been in transition from one job to another, and right now I work in the solarenergy business, OK? Because it's such a downturn right now, I'm going--


Is that green energy- solar-- Is that green energy?


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Kurt D. Walter:

Yes.


Obama is for green energy, so scratch that. Scratch that. So you're involved in solar energy?

Kurt D. Walter:

Solar energy and (inaudible) that's correct.


OK. All right. Thank you very much, Mr. Walter.

Kurt D. Walter:

Walter.


Walker?

Kurt D. Walter:

Walter.


Walter?

Kurt D. Walter:

Yes.


Kurt Walter -- pardon me.

At this time, normally it would be the opportunity for the defense to question the juror about whether or

not they can be fair in this matter, but we've had the Honorable Judge Unger assist me in phrasing thequestion to Kurt Walter regarding his ability to serve.

Let's move on to the next juror, and of course, we have a number of registrations here, and we're not surethat all of them are present. Do we have at present seated Billy Deans?

Billy Deans:

That's me, sir.


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Who's that? That's you. All right, Mr. Deans. Very well. Let me ask you, Mr. Deans, do you have any-well first of all, do you belong to a political party?

Billy Deans:

Neither one.


Neither one - you're not independent, Republican--

Billy Deans:

(inaudible)


I did.

Billy Deans:

(inaudible)


OK. Are you presently seeking any political office?

Billy Deans:

No, sir.


Any members of your family political office?

Billy Deans:

(inaudible)


Let me ask you the question I asked Mr. Kurt Walter. Reading the indictment or hearing the indictmentthat was just read, of the charges, were you aware of those charges before hearing them in this courtroomtoday?

Kurt D. Walter:

I-


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No, no, not you, Mr. Walter. Not you. Mr. Deans will respond. I'll get back to you a little bit later, but-

Billy Deans:

I was aware that this trial was going to bring about those charges.


OK, but you didn't know the individual counts as read?

Billy Deans:

(inaudible)


Were you aware in any way of the matter of Columbia University or any statements that have been madeduring the campaign regarding Obama's attendance at Columbia University? Were you aware of that

before this trial?

Billy Deans:

Can you repeat that?


Were you aware of any statements about Obama's having not attended Columbia University before this

trial?

Billy Deans:

(inaudible)


Obama and Columbia University. Judge, do you want to help me out again. Looks like I'm failing tocommunicate.

Judge Bob Unger:

Go ahead answer. You can answer.


You have the answer.

Billy Deans:


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Yeah, I'm aware that he's (inaudible) is that what are you are asking?


Yes, I am.

Billy Deans:

(inaudible)


Well, let me get right to the issue here -- do you believe that you can be fair and honest and integral in thisprocess, as a juror, if you are selected, to be able to render a verdict if the information fails to demonstrateguilty as a verdict?

Billy Deans:

If I'm chosen as a juror and this court doesn't (inaudible) I would have to say no.


Let me ask you one further question - have you been contacted by any member of the Democratic Party,any officer of the CIA, Homeland Security, or any other agency that is an appendage of the government tocome and register as a part of this trial, that you might report on it, and in many ways, derail it?

Billy Deans:

No, sir.


You have not? All right, very well. OK, thank you, Mr. Deans. And again, the opportunity would be forthe defense to question Mr. Deans. They've chosen not to represent, and therefore, he will beunchallenged, should he be selected by this prosecuting attorney.

The next person we would want to talk to would be a Ruby Davis.

Rudy Davis:

Rudy.


Rudy -- pardon me.

Rudy Davis:

It's all right.



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Maybe I've got some lasagna on my glasses, and it makes it a little difficult. You've traveled all the wayfrom Texas?

Rudy Davis:

Yes, sir.


When did you arrive in New York City?

Rudy Davis:

Yesterday.


What do you think about our city?

Rudy Davis:

I think it's a big city, it's got a lot of people, a lot of good things. It's rough in places.


OK. Why did you come to this event today? I know you've signed up as a juror, but beyond that, whydid you come? What's your reason for being here?

Rudy Davis:

I'm after the truth. I think (inaudible) and I want to contribute and I believe in the saying that the onlything required for evil to prevail is for good men and women to do nothing, so I want to contribute asmuch as I can.


Do you know that there is, and all of the major news outlets and in places of tremendous influence andalso with many of our leading politicians, the continued statements that Obama is natural-born, and thatthe people who are alleged to be birthers are simply pursuing him for racial reasons, or they just refuse toaccept the truth, that a black man has been elected as president. But he is, indeed, natural-born and thereis no question about it. Do you realize that a large number of people would consider you a racist, and that

you just refuse to hear the truth, and that your motives are to destroy a black man and the dreams of black people. Would you--

Rudy Davis:

I am fully aware of that, and the judgment of God almighty is the only judgment I hold sacred, and I carewhat my fellow men care about me, but not (inaudible)



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I think that what we'd like to try to do is hand the microphone to the jurors, thank you, so that I think theirvoices are being heard throughout the auditorium, but we want to record them for the record.

Just one other question, Mr. Davis, or two, perhaps, and I'll be through. Should the corporation counselor Cole & Perkins send an attorney here to represent Mr. Obama, and they bring in documentation to the

contrary of the things in the indictment, do you believe that you will be able to find him not guilty if theinformation warranted, and documentation did so?

Rudy Davis:

I'm willing to look at the truth, and be looking at the evidence, and I'm willing to shout it from therooftops, no matter who it pisses off, whether it be anybody in this church, or anybody in the world.


OK. Sound like a pretty brave fella.

Rudy Davis:

I don't know about that.


Have you been in many fights in your life?

Rudy Davis:

(inaudible)


But, for the final question, if the evidence warranted, could you vote not guilty?

Rudy Davis:

I absolutely could vote not guilty if the evidence has led me to that conclusion, absolutely.


Very well. All right, thank you, sir. And again, the opportunity for the defense to question the juror or prospective juror is forfeited by them not being present.

Now I have two names on one juror application list, and Greg and Laurie Smith. Are they here? Allright.

Well I know that the next person is here I know his name very well. The name of the person that's nexton our list of registration is a Mr. Emory G. Voss. Mr. Voss, welcome to New York. Give him the mike.This is--

Emory Voss:


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Thank you, Pastor Manning. Can you hear me?


We can. Mr. Voss, the first question I want to ask you, how old are you? How old are you?

Emory Voss:

Hold old I am?


Yes.

Emory Voss:

Old enough.


Old enough. And where do you reside?

Emory Voss:

I am residing in the State of Florida.


At present. And what is your profession?

Emory Voss:

I am retired architect. I was practicing architecture 'till 2005, when I lost my central vision, I had to quit.That's when I turned to politics.


Are you presently running for any political office?

Emory Voss:

No.


But you're heavily involved in politics?

Emory Voss:

I'm involved, trying to help to the decent and honest people.


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When you were an active as an architect, what kind of properties or statues or-- did you design?

Emory Voss:

I had a design firm. I was designing from residence and educational buildings, hospitals, I even-- I wasinvolved in packaged power plants, used by the nuclear energy.


Did you work for the government?

Emory Voss:

No, I had my private office.


And that's my next-- you had a private concern, you did not work for a corporation?

Emory Voss:

No. I established my firm after passing my state examination and I had a one-man architecture of--


When were you involved in the design of a nuclear either plant or facility?

Emory Voss:

At the time I was employed, shortly after I arrived to the United States, since I had some nuclear energycontact. And I was involved with just the detail work. I was using the magic name-


Where are you originally from, Mr. Voss? I see you have a very heavy accent.

Emory Voss:

I am originally from Hungary, and I left Hungary- in Budapest in 1956, after losing the uprisal against the

Russians.


Just a couple of other questions, Mr. Voss. And this question I've asked all the jurors in different ways -- but how did you hear about this trial and this event? When did you first become aware of it?

Emory Voss:


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I heard of this trial through listening to the Manning Reports.


Very good for you. If the evidence fails to be conclusive regarding the charges in the indictment, wouldyou be able to find the defendant not guilty?

Emory Voss:

For the sake of a just decision, yes, I can.


Do you have any fear or concern for your well-being or for your life, as this will be a highly publicizedevent? We very possibly have-- may have people from the Secret Service agency listening to you at thismoment, in the courtroom, and one of the ways that tyrannical governments suppress justice is to bringabout fear to its citizens. Are you, in any way, afraid to be known as having reached a guilty verdict?

Emory Voss:

If I would have, I wouldn't be here.


Great question. I have nothing else for you, sir. Thank you. Best answer yet.

All right, the next person on the juror registration list is a Teresa Hine (ph). That's you? Very well.

Teresa Hine:

Yes, I'm Teresa Hine.


Now Teresa, right away, I've got to-- I've got to tell you, I-- are you a citizen of-

Teresa Hine:

Yes, I am.


OK, very well. I had a very good friend of mine that I met, I could say, at Columbia University. Hisname was Heinz Down (ph) and I think he was Heidelberg, Germany, invited me there several years ago,and- to visit his home and church. You're from Stuttgart?

Teresa Hine:

That's correct.



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Well, welcome back. You are an American citizen, though you're living in Germany?

Teresa Hine:

That's correct.


When did you arrive in New York, and obviously you came just for this trial?

Teresa Hine:

Yes, I did. Day before yesterday.


Why would you travel all the way from Stuttgart, Germany, to be a part of this event?

Teresa Hine:

I love the truth, and I want the truth to come out, and I want to be part of the truth, and I'm a patriot.


Are you suggesting that what we are presently hearing about our political class, more specifically ouralleged president, that we're not hearing the truth?

Teresa Hine:

Yes, I would say so.


But couldn't that be said every president?

Teresa Hine:

Just about, yes.


Couldn't it be said about every politician?

Teresa Hine:

Yes.



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However, I think I agree with you, and you will agree with me, that we are looking at some extremelythreatening issues to our Constitution that have been overlooked, for whatever reason, and this trial is setfor the purpose of uncovering those reasons, and displaying that truth to America -- to the people,actually, of the world.

Do you believe, and obviously you've come at your own expense -- we didn't pay you to come here, did

we?

Teresa Hine:

No.


We didn't give you any expense money or anything of that nature?

Teresa Hine:

No, no.


Out of your own resources, you are here?

Teresa Hine:

That's right.


And behalf of all Americans, I want thank you for that, by the way, and everybody else. We've got some people here from Hawaii. I think Hawaii is further than Germany, quite frankly, in many ways.

Maybe these people from Hawaii are the ones that are hiding the birth certificate we'll have to find out.

Could you find Mr. Obama guilty, notwithstanding the fact that a number of people perceive as a hope forblack people, that he represents that god has visited them and that he is, indeed, their Messiah, to somedegree, not necessarily in the spiritual sense of Jesus, but that it was long overdue in the context of thisnation's history of slavery and the suffering that black people allegedly have gone through, that to raiseyour voice against him is to join with the whole idea of oppression of people. Can you make a distinctionof that and find either guilty or not guilty, without those factors influencing you? And if that question istoo long, I'll try to do it another way.

Teresa Hine:

Well, I don't think race influences me whatsoever. I'm very objective, and I don't care where he comesfrom. The most important thing is, he's a natural born citizen. That's the most important thing for me.



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All right. Very well. And in-- of course, if the evidence warrants, and it is documented and presented,that he is, indeed, guilty, you would be able to vote guilty?

Teresa Hine:

I want to be as objective as possible.


OK. All right. Very well. Very well. All right, thank you for coming from Germany. By the way, howdid you hear about this trial?

Teresa Hine:

Through your reports.


OK. All right, thank you. The next person that we would have registered juror is a Mr. William J.Donovan.

William J. Donovan:

Here.


Mr. Donovan, how are you?

William J. Donovan:

OK.


Anyone ever tell you look like Senator Bennett from out in Utah?

William J. Donovan:

I don't know -- is that good?


I don't know. He just got kicked to the curb, so I'm not sure.

William J. Donovan:

Oh, I guess not. No, I don't look like him at all.



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Where are you from, Mr. Donovan?

William J. Donovan:

I was born and raised in New York City, but for the last 37 years, I've lived in Miami, Florida.


Where in New York were you born?

William J. Donovan:

Queens.


Out in Queens.

William J. Donovan:

St. Johns Hospital, Queens Boulevard.


OK.

William J. Donovan:

But I don't actually remember being born.


What do you do for a living?

William J. Donovan:

Most recently, I was a computer consultant for Hewlett-Packard, and they've had a reduction in force lastmonth.


Are they still a viable company, Hewlett-Packard?

William J. Donovan:

Oh yeah.


They are?


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William J. Donovan:

Yeah.


They're competitive in the market?

William J. Donovan:

Very. Very.


How did you hear about this trial?

William J. Donovan:

The trial specifically-- I don't remember when, but it was from watching your videos, which I had beenwatching for several months prior also, so--


Were you a part of the march--

William J. Donovan:

Yes, this morning? Yes.


Do you believe that it's possible that Columbia University would have done something as overtlyunethical as issuing a degree to someone who never attended that school? Do you think that's possible?

William J. Donovan:

Definitely.


This question I want to ask you, Mr. Bennett, and I've asked some tough questions of everyone else --most people that are in the jury pool today and in the audience as well have heard about this trial directly

from me, the Manning Report, or some other YouTube postings. Do you believe that myself, establishedas a prosecuting attorney, and by the way, I'll explain all of that-- part of it will happen after we'veselected the jury, and a part will happen tomorrow, as we proceed with witnesses, but the auspices of thistrial is sanctioned by the 10th Amendment of the Constitution, that sanction has been challenged on acouple of occasions. But initially, the Constitution gave citizens, we the people, the power to proceed,and I'll discuss that in just a few moments. But I want to ask you, do you believe that somehow or other,that I've got a personal vendetta against Mr. Obama, and I have been simply an instrument of hate, of

bigotry, of an ill-conceived, if you will, fraudulent action against a noble and a good man. Or, not-so-noble but good man, but my actions are simply personal and I'm seeking some sort of glory and so that's


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why this matter is proceeding? What's your opinion on that? And by the way, this question does not haveto be answered by you, but I thought I would ask you, at this point in the proceeding.

William J. Donovan:

No, I don't think it's personal, although we can get more attached to our beliefs and it can become

personal, perhaps when we're in a time of recession, let's say, but no, not in this case. I think most of usare here for the same reason that we sense a deception of some sort, all right? We're not exactly surewhat the deception is, or the facts of it, but there's something wrong with the way that Mr. Obama has

presented himself and the policies that he's put in place and the people that he's surrounded himself within his past, so no, I think you are after exposing the truth that we all feel is actually true.


I don't know whether you're still active-- and I know you answered your question. And thank you for thatanswer, by the way. You didn't have to answer that. But I know you did respond regarding youremployment with Hewlett-Packard. Do you believe in any way that your livelihood would bemarginalized by your appearance here, because certainly what we will do here over the next few days

will, indeed, be known in all circles of our government. Are you afraid of that?

William J. Donovan:

No, I'm not afraid of it. It would be-- I would be chagrinned, though, if it closed off certain government job opportunities or something like that. I'm not afraid of it all, no.


All right. And you also can be fair regarding whatever the evidence presents, you would be able to actupon?

William J. Donovan:

Yes.


I also want to ask you one further question, Mr. Bennett-- Mr. Donovan. I called you ``Bennett'' - I don'tknow if you heard that.

William J. Donovan:

I know it.


Do you believe that this trial can be a fair trial, under the circumstances of my prosecuting, men of the people that are in the audience, are very much convinced of what the juror-- what all of the jurors havestated, regarding Obama's guilt. Notwithstanding what the evidence we'll present--

William J. Donovan:


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Can I interrupt you?


Yes.

William J. Donovan:

The question of guilt of what charge? I think everyone on this panel is going to be fair, right? But theseproceedings are more than just sitting at home, thinking about Mr. Obama. This is a very specific and precise set of procedures that we're going through, right? So the evidence has to be specific and preciseand overwhelmingly convincing, right, to be guilty. Whereas a lower standard of guilt, we all, like I said,have some concept of deception happening.


All right. Very well.

William J. Donovan:

So we may decide against our own will that he's not guilty, because the evidence was not properlypresented.


Thank you very much for that. I appreciate that greatly.

OK, again, the defense is not here to challenge or to question, and so we'll move on to the next juror, andthat person would be Denise Handling (ph). Where are you?

Denise Handling:

I am here


You are a graduate of Union--

Denise Handling:

Yes, I am--


--Theological Seminary.

Denise Handling:

Yes, I'm a graduate.



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I'm sorry to hear that. She's a graduate of Union. 1990?

Denise Handling:

Yes.


Year of graduation, with a distinction.

Denise Handling:

Yes, so my master's thesis--


What did you write about?

Denise Handling:

I wrote about the quantum physics concerning the locus of Jesus Christ's entry into the world and thatthrough God's agency, that he was manifested in the flesh, and I use the order of quantum physics toestablish that possibility in the natural order.


And what physician did you select to demonstrate quantum physics? Was it Hubble or was it-

Denise Handling:

I'm sorry?


What physician did you use to demonstrate quantum physics? I mean, who--

Denise Handling:

I was using the Bohr model. Not the bone model, which is actually a realistic. It's not idealistic philosophically, but it's a realistic model and that was the one that I used to establish that Jesus Christcould be incarnate in the physical world, and that there was no dichotomy, therefore, between natural law

and the spiritual realm.


Who on earth would have been your readers? Who read your thesis?

Denise Handling:

I had Dr. Lots (ph) at Union and also my physiology instructor from medical school.


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OK. You are also a graduate of the college of podiatry of medicine.

Denise Handling:

Yes, podiatric medicine.


Podiatric medicine, 1983.

Denise Handling:

Yes.


How did you hear about this trial?

Denise Handling:

I was watching your Manning Reports and also on YouTube.


OK. The question we've asked everyone else, Denise Handling, if I may, about-- do you believe this trial possesses the actual authority to conduct itself in the manner we are now assembled for?

Denise Handling:

Yes, I do, because according to the 10th Amendment, we as citizens have the right of due process. If wedo not have a redress of grievance through the judiciary system, which I believe is happening now.


We are not registered with the federal or state government to conduct trials. The district attorney for boththe County of Manhattan and for the Southern District in the federal courts do not recognize what we'redoing personally. I am not a prosecuting attorney and I have never prosecuted a case before. Of course, Ilike to raise the argument that Elena Kagan has never served as a judge, either before.

Denise Handling:

Right.


But she's nominated and that seems to be going quite well. And the Honorable Bob Unger has not servedas a judge, though he is a very esteemed and a very accomplished attorney. And having said that, I agree,that we do possess the authority, under the 10th Amendment, to conduct this trial. And I'm sure that the


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information flowing from this trial, the publicity as well, will encourage other Americans to become ``Wethe People'' again.

Denise Handling:

Yes.


In addition to finding either a guilty verdict or a not guilty verdict, I think that the American people aregoing to see that our system can work, even though some people may be so corrupt within the system thatyou can't get justice, then we the people must stand. Thank you. And you're a resident of New YorkCity. You live in--

Denise Handling:

In the Bronx.


And obviously you're not afraid to be known as having participated in this process?

Denise Handling:

No.


OK. All right, very well. How many jurors do we have left that we have not interviewed so far? OK,we've still got quite a ways to go.

Do you mind if I just stop and get some water? Pardon me. The next juror registered would be AliciaLutz-Rolo (ph). Not here? Not in the audience? The next registration we have would be a GeorginaBowman (ph). Not here? Not in the audience? The next juror would be Alexander Gothen (ph). Nothere? The next juror would be a Ken Bowman (ph). The next registration would be a William Mann(ph). Looks like we're batting 1.000 now and notfinding people. Terry Petit (ph).

Terry Petit:

(inaudible)


Mr.-- I am pronouncing your name correctly?

Terry Petit:

Petit.



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Petit -- sorry. Where do you live, Mr. Petit?

Terry Petit:

Riverside, California.


Riverside, California? Where is that near -- California is a real big state.

Terry Petit:

County over from Los Angeles. County east.


In the Los Angeles area?

Terry Petit:

Yes, next county over, east.


When did you arrive in New York City, and obviously you came just for the trial?

Terry Petit:

Correct. Yesterday.


Yesterday. Did you pay your own way here to--

Terry Petit:

Yes.


Why?

Terry Petit:

Actually, because I was blessed to have the extra money.


He was blessed to have the money, is that what you said?


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Terry Petit:

Correct.


Well, you know, I-- the questions try to go to the reasoning, political reasons, of your being here. Do youhave political aspirations? Are you-- or do you have some aversion against Mr. Obama or are a seeker ofthe truth? Let's stop it right there and try to respond to those, if you can?

Terry Petit:

No political parties. It's actually beyond seeker of the truth.


It's beyond?

Terry Petit:

Correct.


Could you tell us where, if it's not too personal?

Terry Petit:

I'm looking for a way to-- for Americans as well as the whole of humanity to effect change for the betteron planet earth.


Who did you vote for in the last election?

Terry Petit:

No one.


No one. Are you a registered voter?

Terry Petit:

No.


Are you part of a party?


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Terry Petit:

No.


Who did you like in the last election?

Terry Petit:

I would have voted for Ron Paul.


Ron Paul?

Terry Petit:

Correct.


What do you for a living, Mr. Petit?

Terry Petit:

I'm a student. I just graduated from the school of court reporting.


You graduated from the school of court reporting?

Terry Petit:

Correct.


How are we doing so far?

Terry Petit:

I take the state exam June-- actually, the 26th.


OK. And what will you be doing once you-- a stenographer -- is that what your job will be?

Terry Petit:

Correct. Depositions or work in the court.


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OK. The question we've been asking all of the jurors, and the questions we need to be clear about, aswe've stated previously and will continue to state throughout these proceedings, is that we want to hold anhonest and fair trial. It is not my desire to, in any way, simply railroad, force information, or force a

verdict, that would seemingly address our concerns. There are times when people can be guilty but theevidence just doesn't convict them. Would you agree to that?

Terry Petit:

Yes.


There are times when people can be guilty and the jury can nullify that guilt. Do you believe that?

Terry Petit:

Yes.


Do you believe that it's possible that in a matter such as this, where the Obama Administration andgovernment officials all, what we like to demonstrate, a part of the problem in America, that one of theways to deal with the proceedings that we have here would be to send some one to hang the jury. That isto say no matter what is demonstrated, that they will never vote guilty, to make sure the process isderailed. Do you believe that's possible?

Terry Petit:

Yes.


Would you be such a person?

Terry Petit:

No.


All right, thank you. Thank you very much.

OK, who do we have left? OK, we've still got a number of-- OK, here is Nicholas-- by the way, Mr. PetitI did not mean to infer that you were just-- I've asked everybody else all the other questions. I thought I'd

be a little bit more creative with you. Is that OK with you?

Terry Petit:


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Yes.


Very well. And I'm afraid that the audience does not feel that way about him. Somehow or other, I'vegot some secret beam -- not at all. It's very possible that someone could be sent just to hang up the

process.

Do we have a Nicholas Parisi (ph) here? Nicholas Parisi? Mark Hamerlind (ph)? Now, Your Honor, wehave a Dr. Penny Kelso (ph) who resides in Lubbock, Texas, and she is unable to be here today but will

be here tomorrow with a delegation, mind you, and while we are not choosing jurors simply by their voiceand by their commitment, Dr. Kelso has asked me very passionately if we would allow the opportunityfor her to be questioned as a juror and perhaps today's proceeding would allow one of the jurors to bealternate and Dr. Kelso be placed in the 12, and I'm- I could not guarantee her that we could do that. I'mnot sure whether we'll conclude with jury selection today, but I certainly am very much interested in her

participation in this trial, so I guess my question to you would be, how should we proceed with Dr.Kelso? She will be here tomorrow.

Judge Bob Unger:

Well, we would have-- we couldn't swear in jurors if she was going to be questioned, so we wouldcomplete whatever panel we have here, and then is she going to be here in the morning?


She will be here.

Judge Bob Unger:

So we could very quickly finish up by questioning her, so when we complete what we have to complete

with the panel that we have, we could adjourn, and then quickly question her tomorrow, and then swear inthe jurors and continue.


OK. All right. Thank you very much for that. So Dr. Kelso, we'll question her tomorrow.

The next juror on our registration list would be a Mr. William Brooks. All right. Next registration woulda Mr. John Rigilio (ph). Now I know this person, but I don't see this person on the list- in the box. KellyTerrell (ph). Kelly, are you in the audience? Yes, would you come and position yourself? Yes, and youcould use that seat for just a moment.

Kelly, I think we need to inform everyone at the outset that you are a member of this congregation, is thatright?

Kelly Terrell:

Yes.



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I'm your pastor.

Kelly Terrell:

Yes, you are.


And you have been involved with our ministry now for some time, so that we can be open about fulldisclosure -- that you're not just someone coming in from Washington State. You are, indeed, associatedvery closely with this church and the ministry.

There's something else I'd like to point out about you, that I think is very interesting in terms of American justice, is that you are able to trace your lineage all the way back to the original descendants of originalpilgrims of the Mayflower. Is that right?

Kelly Terrell:

Yes, I am -- to George Sewell.


To George who?

Kelly Terrell:

George Sewell, who signed the Mayflower Compact.


And he was your great-great-great-great grandfather?

Kelly Terrell:

Several greats.


Now Kelly, I have to tell you this as well -- I know that you are a descendant of the Mayflower travelersand signers of that Compact. But I have been informed also that your lineage also uniets with the lineageof Barack Obama -- that you all have similar family members. Is that true?

Kelly Terrell:

That's true -- as well as George Bush.


Oh, then you really are in trouble.


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Kelly, I'm your pastor and you hear what I do and you watch carefully. Do you believe that you can beopen and fair in reaching a decision on this matter?

Kelly Terrell:

I do. I think I can be fair, because if I back off from all the chatter from everywhere, wherever it's coming

from, in my own mind, I have a simple question -- why can't we see all these documents? Why are theyall sealed? So that opens a question to me -- if they- if that can be answered, I'm open to it. If not, I haveopinions, but I know in court those opinions get set aside and I'm willing to do that. I just need to seemore information.

I'm also a registered Democrat, by the way.


Are your family members aware of this participation in this trial?

Kelly Terrell:

Not in the trial.


OK. Do you think that somehow or another that you would suffer injury in your family, loss of status, byparticipating in this trial?

Kelly Terrell:

No.


You don't think so? Are you in any way afraid for your reputation -- jobs, employment, or anything elsethat would be relative to what we would normally consider liberty and freedom and the opportunity offree speech, because of your participation in this trial?

Kelly Terrell:

No. I am going to say that as an American, and it does-- just an American citizen, we have a system hereand we have a right to exercise and a responsibility as citizens to utilize and exercise that system, so I'mused to swimming upstream. I think at this point in all the confusion and chaos and mystery, it'simportant to just let's ask some more questions and get some more answers, so I don't have a problem--


Why do you think that Mr. Obama has sealed all of his records? I mean, just right out of your heart, outof your own understanding of the world, why do you think he has done that?

Kelly Terrell:


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I have two theories, and that's all they are. One is that he and the- who-- he doesn't stand alone. Thatthey're hiding something. The other is that perhaps they're creating chaos and it's-- they seem to like tostir things up. This might be part of that divisiveness and chaos and an opportunity to label people``birthers'' or just more controversy, more-- there seems to be a lot of dust flying around them, so thoseare just two theories I have. I've not landed anywhere. I don't know. I don't have enough information.


Do you believe that Mr. Obama is simply a puppet and that he has been chosen to serve out this purpose,and that the powers that be recognize that he would not be eligible under the normal circumstances, butthey have such a controlling interest in politics and business that they can keep his records sealed forever?Is that part of what you believe?

Kelly Terrell:

I know from mainstream news reports that there three or four dozen court cases brought before our legalsystem, and whenever it gets to discovery, the defense somehow nips the trials.


OK.

Kelly Terrell:

That's what I know. I don't know if that answers your question.


It does. It does. Thank you, Kelly.

The next juror would be a Mr. Jim Fanning (ph). I've got to tell you, we had 65 people register as jurorsand I'm calling a lot of names of people who didn't make it here. Same Orez (ph) ? Roberta Stoker (ph) ?Your Honor, you can call for a recess or a break at any time you'd like. I'm just trying to get through this

process.

Judge Bob Unger:

I have good stamina.


All right, very well. Wayne Fitze (ph) ? OK. Why don't we do this? Why don't we start with the young

woman here, tell us your name, tell us where you're from--

Erin Hobson:

My name is Erin Hobson (ph).


Ann Hobson. And what do you do for a living, Ann?


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Erin Hobson:

I work in a golf club.


You work in a--

Erin Hobson:

In a golf club, a prestigious golf club in Toronto.


In a-- where?

Erin Hobson:

Toronto.


Toronto, OK. What do you do at that golf club?

Erin Hobson:

I'm the bartender for 40 hours a week. A bartender.


And it's a very prestigious, elitist place?

Erin Hobson:

It is.


Has Tiger Woods ever played at your golf club?

Erin Hobson:

He hasn't.


He has not been there yet? Really?

Erin Hobson:


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Erin Hobson:

I have not.


You have not. How did you find out about this?

Erin Hobson:

On YouTube.


On YouTube? OK. Was it something that I was doing on YouTube or someone else was presenting?

Erin Hobson:

It was your report.


OK. All right. And of course, you can serve for the length of the trial, which will run approximately fivedays, given the amount of evidence, even if the prosecution-- defense, rather, does not show up, you will

be available to serve those days?

Erin Hobson:

Yes.


OK. All right. Thank you very much. Yes, sir?

David Lansford:

My name is David Lansford (ph). I'm from Clovis, New Mexico.


Oh, that's you.

David Lansford:

Yes, sir.


How are you?

David Lansford:


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CIA Trial Transcripts Day 1

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Transcript of CIA Trial Transcripts Day 1