CERN [email protected] 29-Apr-99 Computer architectures and operating systems Is there an...

CERN

[email protected] 29-Apr-99

Computer architectures and operating Computer architectures and operating systemssystems

Is there an opportunity for convergence?Is there an opportunity for convergence?

FOCUS meetingFOCUS meeting

CERN - 29 April 1999CERN - 29 April 1999

Les RobertsonLes Robertson

CERN/ITCERN/IT

CERN

25-Mar-99 - #2les robertson - cern/it

SummarySummary

A claim that PCs with Linux and Windows are A claim that PCs with Linux and Windows are enough for all of HEP’s needsenough for all of HEP’s needs

An assorted collection of caveatsAn assorted collection of caveats

A proposal for a convergence policyA proposal for a convergence policy

CERN


Claim: For the foreseeable future (5 Claim: For the foreseeable future (5 years)years)

PC hardwarePC hardware cheapest, best price/performance, as fast as is needed reliable, real commodity

WindowsWindows a 150M unit market masses of productivity tools, applications

LinuxLinux by far the biggest ever Unix the standard for Intel architecture preferred physics environment legacy applications & experience

Hard times for the RISC vendorsHard times for the RISC vendors

CERN


ConclusionConclusion

PCs with Linux and Windows are just fine PCs with Linux and Windows are just fine price reliability usability & functionality support

There is no need to support anything elseThere is no need to support anything else

CERN


March 97 - first PCs for physics batch

April 99 - 200 PCs (400 processors)

CERN


What would we lose?What would we lose?(the other side of the coin)(the other side of the coin)

RISC hardware and software provide -RISC hardware and software provide - Solid, reliable hardware, designed to maximise Solid, reliable hardware, designed to maximise

performanceperformance Industrial strength operating systemsIndustrial strength operating systems

clear functionality spec performance-tuned multi-processor tested deterministic support, with clear escalation process

Certified hardware + software combinationsCertified hardware + software combinations Focus on system (as opposed to component) designFocus on system (as opposed to component) design

and willingness to discuss product strategy, requirements, joint developments, etc. with HEP labs

(or is that just a marketing ploy?) The possibility to ensure program portabilityThe possibility to ensure program portability

necessity

CERN


Are Java stations an option?Are Java stations an option?

SUN, Oracle, etc. propose light-weight Java stationsSUN, Oracle, etc. propose light-weight Java stations Really low cost, with zero administration

.. but everything has to be written in Java.. but everything has to be written in Java Good for naturally server-centric applicationsGood for naturally server-centric applications

(e.g. database applications, Web)(e.g. database applications, Web) Not so obvious for applications that do not have a Not so obvious for applications that do not have a

natural client-server model, and/or use multiple natural client-server model, and/or use multiple languages (like most HEP applications) languages (like most HEP applications)

low cost Java stations will keep up the low cost Java stations will keep up the pressure on Wintelpressure on Wintel

but otherwise, but otherwise, for HEP applications and HEP users

…… NO

like games

machines

CERN


Is Linux ready for HEP?Is Linux ready for HEP?

Linux and the rest of Free Software offer:Linux and the rest of Free Software offer: high quality design excellent functionality the products of massive intellectual investment a sustainable environment

The functionality as a desktop system, or simple server The functionality as a desktop system, or simple server are fineare fine ……… but many proprietary Unix systems have ……… but many proprietary Unix systems have much better server functionalitymuch better server functionality

……… however, the evolving farm models place ……… however, the evolving farm models place limited requirements on data serverslimited requirements on data servers

Linux tape and disk server evaluations at CERN look promising

CERN



Support is still a problem Support is still a problem especially for load-related, configuration-related

issues on servers

But there is a rapidly growing number of But there is a rapidly growing number of commercial offerings (including IBM+Red Hat, commercial offerings (including IBM+Red Hat, HP+Red Hat)HP+Red Hat)

and HEP could probably justify a kernel programmer and HEP could probably justify a kernel programmer or two (since there is no licence fee for the OS)or two (since there is no licence fee for the OS)

Lacking third party productsLacking third party products or well-supported ports of third party products (and in

particular Objectivity) changing fast - but this is clearly still a concern

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Not quite for all applications, but the situation is changing very fast

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Are we sure that Linux is the right Are we sure that Linux is the right choice for Unix on Intel?choice for Unix on Intel?

No - we cannot be sureNo - we cannot be sure

there will be competition from the suppliers of there will be competition from the suppliers of proprietary Unix (Compaq, IBM, HP)proprietary Unix (Compaq, IBM, HP)

Linux is the clear and growing leader today Linux is the clear and growing leader today

- it will be hard to beat- it will be hard to beat

CERN


Do we also need Windows?Do we also need Windows?

The majority might say NoThe majority might say No Windows is hard to use for physics batch,

especially when we try to make it look like Unix It probably is not much better (maybe even worse)

as a server than Linux Support for complex environments is no clearer than

with Linux But there are so many excellent “productivity” tools But there are so many excellent “productivity” tools

and applications sustained by the 150 million unit and applications sustained by the 150 million unit Windows marketWindows market

How can people get by without Developer’s Studio? How can Star Office keep up with MS Office? ……….

How can we ignore the biggest ever operating How can we ignore the biggest ever operating system?system?

CERN


An opportunity for standardisation An opportunity for standardisation in HEPin HEP

At CERN (& in general HEP) we are running far too At CERN (& in general HEP) we are running far too many operating systems, in many cases with only many operating systems, in many cases with only slightly different functionality or hardware cost slightly different functionality or hardware cost benefits - benefits - - and at a high cost for users and support teams- and at a high cost for users and support teams

PCs + { Linux ¦ Windows } PCs + { Linux ¦ Windows } offer an historic opportunity to reduce the offer an historic opportunity to reduce the

solution setsolution set The requirements of LHC computing -The requirements of LHC computing -

massive numbers of processors/boxes integration of regional computing centres and CERN

demand a common agreement on what will be demand a common agreement on what will be supportedsupported

requireme

nt

CERN


Proposal for a policyProposal for a policy

Restrict ourselves to PC hardware (IA32 -> ? IA64)Restrict ourselves to PC hardware (IA32 -> ? IA64) with Linux or Windows 2000with Linux or Windows 2000 Beef-up investment in Linux and WindowsBeef-up investment in Linux and Windows

bring support up to the standards of proprietary Unixes tackle the problems of scaling the management and

performance of desktops and physics farms Develop a migration plan -Develop a migration plan -

progressively freeze support for other Unixes, announcing end-dates which are reasonable for old experiments,

but discourage strongly further investments in RISC systems by current and future experiments

Try to have the same policy adopted in the HEP Try to have the same policy adopted in the HEP communitycommunity

CERN


Just to be clear ----Just to be clear ----

This is a proposal for a convergence policyThis is a proposal for a convergence policy which looks realistic now and will provide a single starting point for LHC

computing but we can be sure that the business will not but we can be sure that the business will not

stand still, and we shall sooner or later have to stand still, and we shall sooner or later have to expand the systems and architectures expand the systems and architectures supportedsupportedAIXWNTIrix

Sola

ris

Digital Unix

HP-

UX

MAC-

OS

Linu

x

Windows

95

SPARC

MIPS Inte

l IA-3

2

PA-RISCPower

PC

Alpha LinuxWindows 2000

Intel IA-32/64 - - - ?

CERN


ConclusionConclusion

PCs, Linux and Windows 2000 enable a major PCs, Linux and Windows 2000 enable a major simplification of the environments supported at simplification of the environments supported at CERN, where our needs mostly coincide with those of CERN, where our needs mostly coincide with those of many other usersmany other users

We can and should take the decision now to We can and should take the decision now to standardise on thesestandardise on these

following and stimulating the mass market in most cases

restricting HEP specials to really, really special issues building up very good support & expertise progressively freezing support for other systems,

architectures

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