Cab 2004 May
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1
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3 DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATI ON AND
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5 NATURAL RESOURCES
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7 ADVI SORY BOARD
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15 MAY 22, 2004
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17 GULF STATE PARK LODGE
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19 9: 00 a. m.
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1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2 DCNR ADVI SORY BOARD MEMBERSHI P:
3
4 Dan L. Moul t r i e - Chai r man Present
5 Dr . Gai nes Smi t h Present
6 Ross M. Sel f Present
7 M. Barnet t Lawl ey Present
8 Loui s W. Col es Present
9 Dr . A. Wayne May Pr esent
10 J ames W. Por t er , I I Pr esent
11 Bi l l Hat l ey Pr esent
12 J ohnny M. J ohnson Pr esent
13 W. Gr ant Lynch Pr esent
14 Mar vi n Wi l l i s Pr esent
15 Geor ge Harbi n Pr esent
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17 STAFF MEMBERS:
18 Robi n Nummy
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1 I NDEX
2 Page
3 Cal l t o Or der - Chai r man Moul t r i e 4
4 I nvocat i on - J ohnny J ohnson 4
5 I nt r oduct i on of Boar d Member s 5
6 Commi ss i oner M. Barnet t Lawl ey
7 Appr oval of Mi nutes of Last Meet i ng
8 Depar t ment al Repor t s
9 By Commi ss i oner Lawl ey
10 Br eak
11 Publ i c Hear i ng
12 Lunch Br eak
13 Pr oposed Regul at i ons
14 A. ) Mar i ne Resour ces
15 B. ) Mar i ne Pol i ce
16 C. ) Wi l dl i f e and Freshwat er Fi sher i es
17 Sel ect i on of Dat e and Locat i on of
18 Spr i ng Advi sor y Boar d
19 Adj our n
20 Cour t Repor t er Cer t i f i cat e
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22
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1 GULF SHORES, ALABAMA; SATURDAY, MAY 22, 2004
2 9: 00 A. M.
3
4 - - -
5
6 P R O C E E D I N G S
7
8 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: I ' d l i ke t o
9 cal l t he meet i ng t o or der . Thi s
10 convenes t he Depar t ment of
11 Conser vat i on and Natural Resour ces
12 Advi sor y Boar d Meet i ng. I ' d l i ke t o
13 wel come you t o Gul f Shores. I t ' s
14 ni ce t o be here t oday.
15 We wi l l have t he i nvocat i on by
16 Mr . J ohnny J ohnson.
17 MR. J OHNSON: Let us pray.
18
19 ( Pr ayer )
20
21 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you,
22 Mr . J ohnson.
23 For t he next order of busi ness,
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1 I ' l l cal l Mr . Bar net t Lawl ey t o
2 i nt r oduce t he member s of t he board.
3 MR. LAWLEY: Thank you. I f you
4 woul d j ust r ai se your hand as your
5 name i s cal l ed so t hey wi l l know who
6 you are.
7 Chai r man Dan Moul t r i e.
8 Ross Sel f .
9 Loui s Col es.
10 Dr . Wayne May.
11 J i m Por t er .
12 Bi l l Hat l ey.
13 J ohnny J ohnson.
14 Gr ant Lynch.
15 Mar vi n Wi l l i s.
16 Geor ge Harbi n.
17 Dr . J ames Smi t h, ex- of f i ci o
18 member f r om Opp.
19 Thank you.
20 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you.
21 The next order of busi ness. Ar e
22 t her e any cor r ect i ons t o t he mi nut es
23 of t he March 6th, 2004 advi sor y board
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1 meet i ng mi nut es? I f not , t he mi nut es
2 st and approved as r ead.
3 The next or der of busi ness wi l l
4 be t he depar t ment al r epor t s. I ' d
5 l i ke t o cal l f or Mr . Lawl ey t o
6 i nt r oduce t he depar t ment s.
7 Commi ss i oner ?
8 MR. LAWLEY: Ever ybody has a
9 di vi si on r epor t i n your packet t hat
10 t he f i ve di vi si ons have pr epar ed.
11 We' r e goi ng t o f or ego t hi s r epor t at
12 t hi s t i me as t hey al l gave a r eport
13 at t he l ast meet i ng. The makeup of
14 t he di vi si ons has not changed any but
15 i t i s i n your packet . I f you have
16 any quest i ons f or me I woul d be happy
17 t o answer t hem. But you wi l l be
18 hear i ng f r omeach of t hese peopl e
19 l at er as we get i nt o t he r egul at i ons.
20 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you,
21 Commi ss i oner .
22 We have a r ecess but we won' t
23 t ake t hat . We have sor t of gone on
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1 t hr ough t hat pr et t y qui ckl y.
2 The next order of busi ness i s t he
3 publ i c hear i ng.
4 Robi n, do we have t he l i st of
5 peopl e yet ?
6 We wi l l st and at ease f or j ust a
7 mi nut e. Let me see i f I can f i nd
8 Robi n and get t hat l i st .
9 I mi nut e she says.
10 MR. LAWLEY: Let me t el l you al
11 about a pi ece of l egi sl at i on, why at
12 t hi s t i me i t wasn' t on our l i st t hat
13 we di d get passed t hi s sessi on. What
14 i t does, as you know, we have a
15 hunt er educat i on cour se i n t he st at e
16 but we' r e - - t hat you' r e r equi r ed t o
17 t ake bef ore you buy a hunt i ng
18 l i cense. Wel l , what t hi s l egi sl at i on
19 i s was al l ow t he mi l i t ar y, f or t hei r
20 t r ai ni ng, t o subst i t ut e our
21 Hunt er Saf et y Cour se i n Al abama so
22 t hey coul d buy a hunt i ng l i cense.
23 I t al so al l ows t he mi l i t ar y
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1 st at i oned i n Al abama on act i ve dut y
2 t o be abl e t o buy a st ate hunt i ng
3 l i cense at t he r esi dent r at e.
4 And Al abama r esi dent s who ar e on
5 act i ve dut y but home on l eave, we' r e
6 goi ng t o al l ow t hei r l i cense t o ser ve
7 - - I mean, t hei r l eave paper s t o
8 serve as a l i cense f or t he t i me her e
9 i f t hey want t o par t i ci pat e.
10 We t hi nk i t ' s somet hi ng t hat
11 shoul d be done. I t ' s cer t ai nl y r i ght
12 t o do t hat f or t he sacr i f i ces t hat
13 t hese peopl e are maki ng f or us.
14 And i f you haven' t r ead about i t
15 and you di dn' t know about i t , we' r e
16 pret t y proud of i t and we want ed t o
17 shar e t hat wi t h you.
18 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Agai n, we' r e
19 t aki ng a shor t br eak whi l e wai t i ng on
20 t he l i st of al l of t he speaker s.
21 For anyone t o addr ess t he Chai r s,
22 agai n whi l e speaki ng, we wi l l have no
23 i nt err upt i on dur i ng anybody' s spoken
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1 t i me of t al ki ng. And any mot i ons
2 need t o be wr i t t en out and handed t o
3 t he Chai r .
4
5 ( Long pause)
6
7 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: The next
8 or der of busi ness i s t he publ i c
9 hear i ng. When you hear your name
10 cal l ed pl ease come t o t he mi cr ophone
11 and gi ve your name and t he subj ect
12 you wi sh t o speak about .
13 I r emi nd you agai n, you may onl y
14 speak at your t i me and any
15 i nt er f er ence wi t h a speaker wi l l not
16 be t ol er at ed.
17 Fi r st I ' d l i ke t o cal l Roger
18 Gui l i an f r om Mobi l e.
19 MR. GUI LI AN: Thank you, Mr .
20 Chai r man. I appr eci ate t he
21 oppor t uni t y t o speak here t hi s
22 morni ng. I speak on - -
23 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: I s your
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1 mi cr ophone on?
2 Ther e we go.
3 MR. GUI LI AN: Thank you, Mr .
4 Chai r man. I appr eci at e t he
5 oppor t uni t y t o speak here t hi s
6 morni ng.
7 I ' m her e t o speak about t he
8 pr oposed ban on t r awl i ng i n t he
9 Mobi l e Bay ar ea. I ' m her e on behal f
10 of Mobi l e Count y Wi l dl i f e and
11 Conservat i on Associ at i on. I speak on
12 behal f of t he 1200 member s of NCWCA.
13 As you may know, t he NCWCA i s t he
14 ol dest conser vat i on associ at i on i n
15 Al abama, f ounded i n 1934. I t i s
16 commi t t ed t o t he preser vat i on,
17 r est orat i on and enhancement of t he
18 wi l dl i f e habi t at and nat ur al
19 r esour ces i n Mobi l e and t he
20 sur r oundi ng areas f or t he t housands
21 of ci t i zens who enj oy i t on a
22 r ecr eat i onal basi s and f or many other
23 r easons.
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1 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Roger , bef or e
2 you st ar t , can everyone hear t he
3 speaker al l r i ght ? I s t her e anybody
4 t hat can' t ?
5 Okay. Go ahead.
6 MR. GUI LI AN: Thank you.
7 Br i ef l y, Mr . Chai r man, I ' l l t r y not
8 even t o use al l of my t i me i n t he
9 i nt er est of br evi t y her e t hi s
10 morni ng.
11 The Mobi l e Count y Wi l dl i f e
12 Conservat i on Associ at i on does, i n
13 f act , suppor t t he ban on t r awl i ng i n
14 t hese areas f or sever al r easons. Two
15 chi ef l y.
16 Number one, we f eel t hat i t i s
17 benef i ci al t o t he nat ur al habi t at ,
18 t he wi l dl i f e habi t at , i n t hi s ar ea.
19 A ban on t r awl i ng woul d chi ef l y
20 benef i t nur ser i es and st agi ng ar eas
21 f or shr i mp and ot her wi l dl i f e
22 habi t at , mar i ne wi l dl i f e habi t at , i n
23 t hose areas.
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1 I f t hey are l ef t re l at i vel y
2 undi st ur bed t hese nur ser i es can gr ow
3 and t hr i ve.
4 I t i s wel l document ed t hat
5 basi cal l y most , i f not al l , mar i ne
6 l i f e i n t hese areas spend some per i od
7 of t i me dur i ng t hei r l i f e cycl e i n
8 t hese est uar y ar eas, whet her i t ' s
9 br eedi ng, nur si ng, st agi ng or
10 what - have- you. These are ver y vi t al
11 ar ea t o t he mar i ne wi l dl i f e habi t at .
12 We f eel t hat i f t hi s ar ea i s l ef t
13 r el at i vel y undi st ur bed t hat t hat wi l l
14 l ead t o t he enhancement of t he mar i ne
15 wi l dl i f e habi t at . Bet t er nur ser i es,
16 bet t er st agi ng areas means a
17 enl ar ger , heal t hi er and basi cal l y
18 mor e anat omi cal and mor e val uabl e
19 shr i mp i s good f or t he i ndust r y.
20 I t ' s al so good f or t he envi r onment .
21 And we bel i eve i t ' s i n t he publ i c' s
22 best i nt er est t o conserve t hese
23 ar eas.
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1 We are cer t ai nl y not
2 ant i - busi ness. We ar e not
3 ant i - gr owt h. We' r e not
4 ant i - i ndust r y. But we f eel t hat a
5 good bal ance i s i n order her e.
6 And t hese areas deser ve t o be
7 l ef t undi st ur bed so t he shr i mp can
8 gr ow l ar ger and be heal t hi er . And at
9 t he end of t hat , t hey' r e goi ng t o be
10 more val uabl e.
11 Ther e' s a di r ect cor r el at i on and
12 di r ect posi t i ve cor r el at i on bet ween
13 t he number of days wher e t hese ar eas
14 wi l l be cl osed and t he shr i mp t hat
15 woul d be abl e t o t hr i ve i n t hese
16 ar eas. The shri mp har vest ul t i mat el y
17 woul d be l arger and t her ef or e mor e
18 val uabl e.
19 The second i ssue t hat we f eel i s
20 ver y i mport ant , Mr . Chai r man, i s t he
21 i ssue of by- cat ch. You' r e f ami l i ar
22 wi t h t hi s, I ' m sur e. And t her e ar e
23 t ons and t ons and t ons and bi l l i ons,
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1 i f not mor e, of by- cat ch t hat ar e
2 dest r oyed and ul t i mat el y di scarded
3 every year because of shr i mpi ng.
4 I t ' s been est i mated up t o t en pounds
5 of by- cat ch i s caught and di scar ded
6 f or every one pound of shr i mp. Fi g
7 f i sh, bai t f i sh, ot her t hi ngs t hat
8 ar e vi t al t o t he ecosystem and t he
9 chai n ar e t aken up i n t hese net s.
10 And a l i t t l e r est r ai nt now at t he
11 stat e l evel , vol unt ar i l y, wi l l do
12 everyone on bot h si des a wor l d of
13 good down t he r oad.
14 As you probabl y know, t he l aw
15 r equi r es by- cat ch r educt i on. Feder al
16 l aw and st ate l aw r equi r e by- catch
17 r educt i on. And i f we t ake some mi nor
18 st eps now t o have some r easonabl e
19 r est r ai nt at t hi s l evel , we can st ave
20 of f pot ent i al f eder al i nt er vent i on.
21 And i t woul d be ver y easi l y
22 accommodat ed, r egul at or y schemes t hat
23 f eder al r egul at i ons br i ng down.
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1 By r educi ng by- cat ch now we can
2 st ave of f any t ype of f eder al
3 i ntervent i on and we woul d be doi ng
4 bot h si des a wor l d of good because we
5 woul d gover n our sel ves as opposed t o
6 wai t i ng unt i l i t get s out of cont r ol
7 and t he f ederal si de has t o come i n.
8 Mi ni mal ef f or t now woul d prevent many
9 pr obl ems l at er .
10 We f eel t hat i t ' s r easonabl e t o
11 t ake some st eps at t hi s poi nt on a
12 smal l er basi s and a smal l er scal e
13 t han have someone el se come i n and do
14 i t f or us .
15 Obvi ousl y, any t ype of cl osur e
16 scheme woul d be open t o r egul at or y
17 r evi ew on a r egul ar basi s, whether
18 i t ' s ever y coupl e of year s or more
19 sooner - - excuse me, or sooner . I t
20 woul dn' t be a f i nal t hi ng. I t
21 woul dn' t be anyt hi ng wher e: Okay,
22 now t hi s i s cl osed and t hat ' s t he end
23 of i t . I t woul d come up f or r evi ew.
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1 And i f i t ' s not ef f ect i ve, i f i t ' s
2 not wor ki ng, i f i t ' s
3 di spr opor t i onat el y hur t i ng t he
4 i ndust r y, but not r eal l y hel pi ng,
5 t hen t hat coul d up f or r evi ew.
6 But t he NCWA f eel s t hat i t i s a
7 good i dea t o ban t r awl i ng i n t hese
8 areas because of t he damage t o t he
9 wi l dl i f e and t he damage t o t he
10 sur r oundi ng habi t at i s somethi ng more
11 - - l et me back up.
12 I t ' s di spr opor t i onat e t o t he
13 val ue of what i s har vest ed t her e.
14 We' r e cer t ai nl y not ant i - busi ness.
15 We' r e cer t ai nl y not t r yi ng t o keep
16 peopl e f r om maki ng a l i vi ng.
17 We f eel t hat - - we f eel i t ' s our
18 r esponsi bi l i t y t o be st ewar ds of t he
19 nat ur al r esour ces i n t he Mobi l e
20 County area. We f eel t hat we' r e
21 borr owi ng f r omour chi l dr en and our
22 gr andchi l dr en and we woul d l i ke t hem
23 t o be t her e and t o be heal t hy.
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1 Thank you, Mr . Chai r man, f or your
2 t i me.
3 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you,
4 Mr . Gui l i an.
5 Next I ' d l i ke t o r ecogni ze our
6 f ormer Commi ssi oner , Ri l ey Smi t h.
7 And I ' d l i ke t o wel come Ri l ey and
8 br i ng Ri l ey t o t he mi cr ophone now,
9 pl ease.
10 MR. SMI TH: I ' ve got somethi ng.
11 Good mor ni ng ever yone. Thank you f or
12 your t i me.
13 I am her e r epr esent i ng t he Mobi l e
14 Chapt er of t he Coast al Conser vat i on
15 Associ at i on. Regardi ng t he pr oposed
16 per manent shr i mp cl osure of t he
17 upper , west ern and some par t s of t he
18 bay.
19 Cl osur e i mpl i es t hat you' r e
20 t aki ng somet hi ng away. I don' t t hi nk
21 we' r e t aki ng anythi ng away her e. I f
22 at al l , we' r e t aki ng away an ar ea
23 t hat has been dr agged f or years. But
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1 what we' r e want i ng - - what we' r e
2 doi ng i s we' r e at t empt i ng t o save a
3 habi t at f or t he pi nf i sh, f or t he
4 j uveni l e pi nf i sh, and f or t he shr i mp.
5 Thi s i s wher e t hey gr ow. Thi s i s
6 wher e t hey - - t hey' r e - - t hey' r e
7 goi ng t o come out - - we' r e not goi ng
8 t o l ose t he f i sh. We' r e not goi ng t o
9 l ose t he shr i mp. They' r e ul t i mat el y
10 comi ng out of t hi s ar ea bi gger .
11 They' l l be wort h mor e i f t hi s works.
12 And i t has been somethi ng t hat ' s been
13 pr oposed t o be st udi ed.
14 I f t hi s works t hen t hese gr ass
15 beds wi l l come back. I t wi l l bet t er
16 f or , agai n t he j uveni l e f i sh and t he
17 shr i mp.
18 I t wi l l be bet t er f or t he
19 cr abbers because t hey' l l have a pl ace
20 t hat t hey don' t have any conf l i ct
21 wi t h ot her f ol ks.
22 We suppor t t hi s. I suppor t i t .
23 I t hi nk i t ' s t he t hi ng t o do. I
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1 don' t t hi nk i t ' s goi ng t o hur t anyone
2 i n anyway. And what ' s up t her e wi l l
3 come down t he bay. The har vest wi l l
4 st i l l be t her e.
5 And we urge you t o consi der t hi s
6 and pass i t . Thank you.
7 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you.
8 I ' d l i ke t o cal l Mr . Mar vet t J ohnson.
9 Mr . J ohnson, i s t hat Bal dwi n
10 County? Wher e i s your r esi dence?
11 MR. J OHNSON: I t ' s Bayou La
12 Bat r e.
13 Yeah, I ' m agai nst t he cl osur e and
14 t he dr edgi ng. Because I j ust - - I
15 don' t t hi nk we need i t t her e, you
16 know.
17 J ust - - i t ' s j ust al l been doi ng
18 - - you know, we' ve al l been doi ng
19 t hat ever si nce I was t en year s ol d,
20 you know. I j ust don' t t hi nk we need
21 i t .
22 That ' s al l I got t o say.
23 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you,
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1 Mr . J ohnson.
2 The next speaker wi l l be Mr .
3 Bobby Mat her s.
4 MR. MATHERS: Good mor ni ng, si r .
5 I have some maps I ' d l i ke t o hand t o
6 you. These maps are not pr oper l y - -
7 what we have her e i s - - I ' m f or
8 keepi ng t he Tensaw area open f or t he
9 mom- and- pop shr i mpers and t he smal l
10 boat s.
11 I had pul l ed a shi p channel al ong
12 wi t h t hese 55- f oot boat s and - - and
13 i t don' t wor k. I ' ve l ost f our net s
14 t hi s l ast year. We got a smal l si de
15 ar ea t hat we can pul l t hem i n.
16 What you see t her e i s a map t hat
17 was proposed by conser vat i on. And
18 t he one t hat ' s out l i ned i n col or i s
19 t he one t hat I made up.
20 And we al so have a map of t he
21 areas t hat was t aken under water .
22 And t here' s no gr ass beds i n t he
23 Tensaw ar ea. Tensaw i s t he upper
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1 par t by t he br i dge, whi ch i s a smal l
2 area, appr oxi matel y 500 yar ds wi de,
3 appr oxi mat el y hal f a mi l e l ong. I t
4 r uns back i nt o Mobi l e Ri ver . And
5 i t ' s 17 t o 30- f oot deep. Water comes
6 out f r om2 mi l es an hour t o 30 mi l es
7 an hour .
8 And t he by- catch, I ' ve shr i mped
9 Dauphi n I sl and each year when i t ' s
10 open. Dauphi n I sl and, I have t he
11 same by- cat ch appr oxi matel y. I t ' s a
12 l i t t l e di f f er ent - t ype f i sh t han I do
13 at t he Tensaw area.
14 These other par t s, we don' t
15 shr i mp t hat much anyway t o t he east
16 shor e. Now, t hat ' s, as f ar as I ' m
17 concer ned, t hat ' s a good cl osur e
18 because t her e are some grass pat ches
19 i n t her e.
20 But now, Tensaw - - I was pul l ed
21 out of t he Mobi l e Ri ver f r om t he
22 st or m and I l i ked t o have l ost my
23 wi f e and t wo gr and- ki ds and mysel f .
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1 And i t ' s happened bef or e and i t wi l l
2 happen agai n. So i f you t ake away
3 t he Tensaw area f r om 78 nor t h up
4 around t he curve, t hen you' ve t aki ng
5 away al l of our r esour ces t o cat ch
6 shr i mp t hat we' ve been doi ng f or
7 year s.
8 And we ask you, and I beg you t o
9 consi der t hi s as an open ar ea.
10 Anyt hi ng east of t her e over t o t he
11 East er n Shore, t hat ' s a good i dea.
12 You have i t on t he map. I out l i ned a
13 l i t t l e bi t of what ' s t her e.
14 And we want t o t hank you f or
15 consi der i ng t hi s, f or consi der i ng t he
16 r eef s. We l i ke t o f i sh, t oo. I ' m a
17 f i sher man. I l ove t o f i sh. I
18 r et i r ed f r om t he Uni ver si t y of Sout h
19 Al abama, and I enj oy f i shi ng. I al so
20 make a l i t t l e si de money shr i mpi ng.
21 And I have, and I need t hat and i t ' s
22 a gr eat oppor t uni t y f or al l of us t o
23 do.
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1 We under st and what t he
2 conservat i on i s worki ng f or. Because
3 we pay our t axes and we' r e a par t of
4 t hi s st at e, as you ar e. And t hat ' s
5 al l we ask f or . And we beg t hi s.
6 And i f you need any ot her
7 i nf ormat i on on t hi s, we wi l l be gl ad
8 t o suppl y i t .
9 Ot herwi se, i f al l of t hi s i s
10 cl osur e, I ' m sor r y t o say, s i r , but
11 we wi l l have t o keep on f i ght i ng f or
12 t hi ngs t hat we t hi nk i s r i ght .
13 And t he under wat er map shows t hat
14 t her e' s no grass beds i n Tensaw. We
15 had a meet i ng t he ot her ni ght and
16 we' r e pr et t y wel l agr eed on t hi s.
17 So, we- - I woul d appr eci at e t he
18 consi der at i on of keepi ng t hi s ar ea
19 open.
20 Thank you, si r .
21 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you,
22 Mr . Mather s.
23 Next I ' d l i ke t o cal l Mr . Dan
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1 Dumont .
2 MR. DUMONT: Thank you, Mr .
3 Chai r man.
4 I was t he Execut i ve Di r ect or of
5 t he Wi l dl i f e Feder at i on f or about
6 seven year s. And back dur i ng t hat
7 t i me, i n 1995 and ' 96, we began a bi g
8 r ound of meet i ngs t o di scuss t hi s
9 Upper Bay nur sery cl osur e.
10 The depar t ment asked t hat we
11 del ay any act i on on t hat back t hen.
12 I was l ooki ng i n my f i l es and f ound
13 ar t i c l es t hat I ' d wr i t t en i n t he
14 Al abama Wi l dl i f e magazi ne out l i ni ng
15 t he need f or t hi s.
16 I spent a 3- year t er m on t he Gul f
17 of Mexi co Fi sher y Management Counci l
18 i n J une of l ast year . I ' m cur r ent l y
19 a member of t he Shr i mp Advi sor y Panel
20 t o t he Gul f of Mexi co Fi sher y Mange
21 ment Counci l .
22 I r eal l y t hi nk t hi s i s a good
23 i dea. I ' m her e t o suppor t t he
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1 depar t ment ' s r ecommendat i on.
2 Thi s i s t he act ual map t hat I had
3 i n t hose meet i ngs i n 1995 and ' 96
4 wi t h sor t of wax mar ks on i t . And,
5 you know, t hi s gr een l i ne i s one t hat
6 we suggest ed i n some meet i ngs we had
7 j ust a f ew mont hs ago. But t hi s i s a
8 r esul t of wor k and negoti at i ons t hat
9 went on, you know, ei ght year s ago
10 and - - and l at er .
11 And t hi s cl osel y appr oxi mates t he
12 depar t ment ' s cur r ent r egul at i on.
13 They have some t i me t o st udy i t and I
14 t hi nk t he r esul t s of t hei r st udi es as
15 i ndi cat ed, you know, t hat t hi s i s a
16 necessary and benef i ci al act .
17 And I ' d l i ke t o say t hat my map' s
18 get t i ng a l i t t l e l ong i n t he t oot h
19 and I hope you' l l t ake act i on on t hi s
20 because I ' m get t i ng a l i t t l e l ong i n
21 t he t oot h, t oo, and I may not be
22 ar ound another ei ght year s t o t al k
23 about t hi s.
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1 But I ' d l i ke t o gi ve you t hi s
2 map, i f I coul d. Thank you.
3 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you,
4 Mr . Dumont .
5 Next t o t he mi cr ophone wi l l be
6 Mr . Edward Leat her bur y.
7 MR. LEATHERBURY: Thank you, Mr .
8 Chai r man. My name i s Edwar d
9 Leat herbury. I ' m f romMobi l e. I ' m
10 t he Stat e Chai r man of CCA Al abama.
11 We r epr esent approxi mat el y 2400
12 peopl e i n t he st ate of Al abama.
13 I ' m here t oday t o expr ess my
14 concer n wi t h t he Upper Bay cl osure
15 and suppor t of MRD' s r ecommendat i ons.
16 The bi ol ogi st s have st udi ed t hi s and
17 have det ermi ned t hi s i s what needs t o
18 be done. We f ul l y support t hei r
19 act i ons. And al so suppor t t hei r
20 act i ons on t he gi l l net
21 r ecommendat i ons t hat t hey have, al so.
22 Thank you.
23 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you,
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1 Mr . Leat her bur y.
2 The next speaker wi l l be Mr . Bob
3 Shi pp. Dr . Bob Shi pp, excuse me.
4 DR. SHI PP: Thank you, Mr .
5 Chai r man. My name i s Bob Shi pp and
6 I ' m chai r man of t he Depar t ment of
7 Mar i ne Sci ences at t he Uni ver si t y of
8 Sout h Al abama. However , I ' m speaki ng
9 on my own behal f t hi s mor ni ng as a
10 f i sher i es bi ol ogi st f or 35 year s
11 exper i ence and al so ni ne years of
12 servi ce on t he Gul f of Mexi co,
13 Fi sher i es Management Counci l .
14 I ' ve got a wr i t t en ver si on of
15 t hi s but I ' m goi ng t o cut i t down t o
16 publ i c t est i mony.
17 Our est uari es ar e r equi r ed
18 nur sery habi t at s f or about 90 percent
19 of our economi cal l y i mpor t ant
20 speci es, i ncl udi ng r edf i sh, speckl ed
21 t r out , sheepshead, f l ounder , cr oaker ,
22 bl ack dr um, mul l et . I mport ant f orage
23 speci es l i ke anchovi es, menhaden and
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1 pi nf i sh. And shel l f i sh, such as
2 br own and whi t e shr i mp, bl ue cr ab,
3 oyst er s and many, many ot her s.
4 Wi t hout t hi s essent i al habi t at , t hese
5 speci es woul d not exi st .
6 For t he l ast hal f cent ur y
7 f i sher i es wor l dwi de have been i n
8 decl i ne. Of t hi s, t her e i s no doubt .
9 Popul ar magazi nes, such as Ti me
10 and hi ghl y sci ent i f i c j our nal s such
11 as Sci ence and Nat ure have f eat ured
12 t hi s decl i ne as cover st or i es.
13 However , when f i shes are wel l
14 managed t hey r ecover and t hey r ecover
15 qui ckl y. Ef f ect i ve management of
16 mar i ne f i sher i es i n U. S. wat er s began
17 i n t he l ate 1970s wi t h t he passage of
18 Magnuson Act . And now, l ess t han 30
19 years l ater , we see r emarkabl e
20 r ecover y i n most of t he managed
21 st ocks.
22 However , one of t he si ngl e
23 gr eat est hur dl es i n st ock r ecover y i s
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1 r educt i on of by- cat ch of whi ch shri mp
2 t r awl i ng i s t he maj or cause.
3 The Magnuson Act i ncl udes 10
4 Nat i onal St andar ds, most deal i ng wi t h
5 saf ety, economi cs and al l ocat i on
6 i ssues.
7 However , St andar d 9 st ates:
8 Conser vat i on and management measur es
9 shal l , t o t he ext ent pr acti cabl e.
10 A) mi ni mi ze by- catch; and,
11 B) t o t he ext ent by- catch cannot
12 be avoi ded, mi ni mi ze t he mor t al i t y of
13 such by- catch.
14 Thi s i s t he l aw of t he l and.
15 Thi s vi ew was al so echoed i n t he
16 r ecent U. S. Commi ss i on on Ocean
17 Pol i cy bef or e t he Pr esi dent .
18 Now, we' ve al l seen
19 i mpl ement at i on of f eder al l aw:
20 Tur t l e excl uder devi ces, by- cat ch
21 r educt i on devi ces, pr ot ect i on of
22 endangered speci es.
23 From a bi ol ogi cal per spect i ve,
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1 cl osur e of t he ent i r e Upper Bay f r om
2 mi ddl e Bay l i ght nor t h, woul d l i kel y
3 be t he mi ni mumshoul d t he f eds i ssue
4 mandat es. But we know what a shor t -
5 t erm negat i ve economi c i mpact t hat
6 woul d have on our f i shermen, t hus t he
7 proposal t hat MRD has put f or ward
8 t hat woul d mi ni mi ze t hi s. And f or
9 t hi s r eason, I ' m wi l l i ng t o suppor t
10 t hat pr oposal .
11 However , t her e are t hose who say
12 "t hi s i s j ust t he f i r st step. Next
13 t i me t hey' l l want t o cl ose more. " To
14 t hem, I say "you' r e r i ght . " But t he
15 " t hey" won' t be us. I t ' l l be NOAA
16 Fi sher i es and t he f ederal government .
17 My vi ew i s t he mor e we do as a
18 st at e, t he l ess l i kel y we' l l be
19 subj ect t o f eder al i nt er vent i on.
20 Thank you.
21 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you,
22 Dr . Shi pp.
23 The next speaker wi l l be Wi l l i am
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1 G. Ladni er .
2 MR. LADNI ER: My name' s Wi l l i am
3 A. , not Wi l l i am G. I ' m Wi l l i am A. I
4 don' t have my gl asses on. I ' m
5 opposi ng t o al l t he dr edgi ng. Thi s
6 gent l eman r i ght here t al ki ng about
7 t hi s, t hat and t he ot her . Dr edgi ng
8 of t he l ower r eef s or f or any r eason
9 i n t he st at e of Al abama. I ' ve been
10 t o Mi ssi ssi ppi . I ' ve dr edged t he
11 Mi ssi ssi ppi . I worked as a deckhand
12 on a boat i n Mi ssi ssi ppi on a dr edge
13 boat . We sol d oyster s; I coul dn' t
14 hel p i t . I had t o do what t he
15 capt ai n sai d. But I wi l l say t hi s:
16 The st ate of Al abama has l ost a l ot
17 of oyst er s i n t he past . But t hi s
18 pl an pr ogr amt hey have i s not
19 br i ngi ng anyt hi ng back. They pl ant
20 r ocks and i t ' s f i ve year s t o cat ch
21 oyster s and t hat ' s f i ve year s gone.
22 They pl ant oyst ers t her e and t wo
23 year s l at er t hey' r e ki l l i ng i t ,
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1 t her e' s somet hi ng comi ng down t hese
2 r i ver s t hat ' s causi ng t hi s. What i t
3 i s, we need t o f i nd i t out . I t ' s not
4 t he oyst er ki l l i ng t he r eef s.
5 There' s no way you can ki l l an oyst er
6 r eef by combi ng i t because I ' ve seen
7 i t . I had 28 dr ag boat s on t her e i n
8 t he ' 60s, t oted sever al hundr ed
9 bar r el s a pi ece; coul dn' t cl ean i t
10 up. Ri ght now, we' r e on ei ght pack
11 l i mi t . The dr edger s, our oyster s
12 have t o be i n a cool er by t wo
13 o' cl ock. We have t o shut down at
14 12: 00 and get an hour t o get i n t he
15 cool er by t wo o' cl ock. Dr edge boat s,
16 t hey go down and t hey go al l day, al l
17 week l ong, don' t wor r y about t hem
18 al l . They keep t hem on t hei r boat ;
19 don' t mat t er . Somethi ng' s got t o be
20 done. I mean, t hat ' s di scr i mi nat i ng
21 by maki ng hi m l eave t he r eef s by
22 t wel ve o' cl ock and t hey st ay as l ong
23 as t hey want , seven days a week. We
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1 get t o go f i ve days a week. Thi s i s
2 not r i ght . I hat e t o see t hi s man
3 her e go i nt o of f i ce over t her e. I
4 wi sh you' d si t on t he boat , Mr .
5 J enki ns.
6 That ' s about al l I got t o say. I
7 know I got peopl e here t hat don' t
8 l i ke me. But I got one her e t hat
9 l oves me; my wi f e i s si t t i ng back
10 t here. 39 years i n Oct ober . We' ve
11 been doi ng al l r i ght as l ong as t he
12 oyst er s st ays t he way t hey i s. Don' t
13 l et t hem t ake no r eef s f r om us t o
14 dr edge on. I ' m not even - - I don' t
15 even want t o pl ant beds. They don' t
16 pay t axes or nothi ng. That ' s not
17 r i ght . But I don' t want t o get i nt o
18 t hat , so I ' m goi ng t o st ep down and
19 l et t he next man t al k, or l ady, or
20 what ever . But t hat ' s al l I got t o
21 say.
22 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you,
23 Mr . Ladni er .
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1 The next speaker wi l l be Mr . Ti m
2 Gothar d.
3 MR. GOTHARD: Good mor ni ng, Mr .
4 Chai r man, Member s of t he Boar d. I
5 won' t be r edundant . I f you' l l j ust
6 l ook at t he proposed r ecommendat i on
7 by MRD r egardi ng t he no t r awl zone.
8 We t hi nk i t ' s a good i dea. We t hi nk
9 i t ' s good f or t he r esour ce. The beds
10 are ver y i mpor t ant . And shr i mp and
11 t he pi nf i sh i n t hose ar eas are ver y
12 i mpor t ant . And we t hi nk t he
13 r ecommendat i on of t he depar t ment i s a
14 good r ecommendat i on and we suppor t
15 i t .
16 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you
17 ver y much.
18 The next speaker i s Tony
19 Landenwi ch.
20 MR. LANDENWI CH: My name i s Tony
21 Landenwi ch. I l i ve i n Bal dwi n
22 Count y. I ' d l i ke t o addr ess t wo
23 t hi ngs r eal qui ck her e t hi s mor ni ng.
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1 One, i s t he pr oposed ant l er
2 r estr i ct i ons. I t ' s been our
3 under st andi ng t hat t he more r ul es and
4 more r egul at i ons we put on hunt ers i s
5 t he opport uni t y f or us t o l ose
6 hunt er s. What I ' m pr oposi ng i s t hat
7 we not over bur den t he hunter s wi t h
8 new r egul at i ons and we t r y t o make
9 t hat exper i ence as easy as we can.
10 For t he number of deer t hat we have
11 avai l abl e i n t he st at e and t he
12 decl i ne i n hunt i ng popul at i ons, I
13 t hi nk we need t o advance t hat r at her
14 t han t r y t o r est r i ct t hat i ssue.
15 The ot her one has t o do wi t h
16 decoys of t urkeys. The NRA and
17 Hunt er Associ at i on and t he Depar t ment
18 of Conservat i on i s t eachi ng hunt er s
19 new hunt i ng ski l l s. We' r e t eachi ng
20 hunt ers t o enj oy t he woods wi t h gr eat
21 ski l l s. By addi ng t he decoy par t t o
22 t he t ur key, you ki nd of r educe or
23 el i mi nat e t hat a l i t t l e bi t . And
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1 i nst ead of t eachi ng t he hunt er r eal
2 ski l l s, we' r e goi ng t o t each t hem
3 decoy pl acement . We' r e probabl y
4 bet t er of f t eachi ng ski l l s as
5 compar ed t o t eachi ng how t o put a
6 decoy out i n t he woods.
7 That ' s al l I have. Thank you.
8 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you.
9 The next speaker wi l l be Mr . J ef f
10 Goodson.
11 Mr . Goodson, ar e you her e?
12
13 ( No ver bal r esponse. )
14
15 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Robi n, we
16 wi l l pass Mr . Goodson.
17 The next speaker wi l l be J oseph
18 Cent anni .
19 MR. CENTANNI : Good mor ni ng. How
20 are you doi ng?
21 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Good mor ni ng.
22 MR. CENTANNI : I ' ve shr i mped t he
23 Upper Bay - - t hi s i s about t he shri mp
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1 cl osur e. I ' ve shr i mped t he Upper Bay
2 f or maybe - - pr et t y soon, 30 years .
3 And I ' ve shr i mped i n a smal l boat .
4 We' d get of f f r om work and go shr i mp
5 most of t he ni ght .
6 And of al l t he year s t hat I ' ve
7 shr i mped, I ' ve never shr i mped up here
8 i n t hi s pr oposed - - t hi s pr oposed
9 cl osur e up here. I have shr i mped t he
10 deep channel s.
11 One t i me I went over her e ar ound
12 t he cove, but I got so much coal dust
13 i n my net I di dn' t go back.
14 So I pr ogr essed up t o, say, a 28-
15 f oot boat . And I don' t see any
16 r eason t o have t hi s cl osur e. I f you
17 cl ose t hi s wat er s, i t ' s not goi ng t o
18 make any di f f erence on t he pi nf i sh
19 because t here' s no t r awl i ng goi ng on
20 t her e anyway.
21 And as f ar as grass beds, you
22 pul l a t r awl i n a gr ass bed and see
23 what happens t o you, or you can go
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1 ar ound t hem.
2 And by- catch, you t ake a smal l
3 boat and get a l oad of menhaden t hi s
4 bi g, you know, and you t r y t o pi ck up
5 a f ew shr i mp out of i t . When you get
6 a l oad of f i sh i n a net , i t st ops t he
7 net up. I t pr oduces a wal l of wat er .
8 Bel i eve i t or not , i f you' r e
9 pul l i ng a t r awl , t hem f i sh ar e
10 swi mmi ng ar ound i n t hat bag down
11 t here. You put more water i n a t r awl
12 t han you can get out of i t . I bui l t
13 t r awl s.
14 So, a l ot of t hi s i s unnecessar y,
15 you know. And you keep t al ki ng about
16 document at i on. I keep hear i ng "wel l ,
17 we bel i eve t he bi ol ogi st s. " That ' s
18 what we heard i n t he meet i ng t he
19 other day. But , yet , has any
20 i nf or mat i on been publ i shed? Have
21 y' al l been pr esent ed wi t h any
22 i nf or mat i on f r om t he bi ol ogi st s? Any
23 st udy?
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1 I r ead somethi ng i n t he newspaper
2 based on as l ong as we kept t hese
3 wat er s cl osed. Wel l , i f t hey keep
4 wat ers cl osi ng past t he 68 count y,
5 t hey' r e i n vi ol at i on t her e. They
6 need t o open t he waters up. I t hi nk
7 we had a l i t t l e i nci dent l ast year
8 t hat proved t hat . We have got smal l
9 shr i mp and yet t hey had bi g shr i mp.
10 So t her e' s a l ot more t o t hi s t han
11 pr ot ecti ng pi nf i sh, stuf f l i ke t hat .
12 I suspect t here' s more f i sher men
13 up i n t hose wat er s. I f we' r e goi ng
14 t o cl ose some of i t , l et ' s cl ose i t
15 t o ever yt hi ng. Let ' s keep our boys
16 out of t he gr ass beds. I used t o
17 f l oat around on Sunday af t ernoon i n
18 J ohn' s Bend wi t h grass beds and cast
19 over t hem, but t he hur r i cane ki l l ed
20 al l of t hat .
21 Al so, t he gr ass beds above t he
22 causeway, somebody needs t o i nspect
23 t hose. There' s pr obl ems wi t h t hem up
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1 t her e.
2 And, l et ' s see. What el se do we
3 have here? Maybe t he r eason you
4 peopl e don' t even at t empt t o shr i mp
5 up t here i s because of t he grass
6 beds. My by- cat ch has al ways been
7 gr eat at Dauphi n I sl and.
8 I n t he f al l of t he year - - oh, by
9 t he way, t hese wat ers are onl y open
10 maybe t wo and a hal f mont hs a year .
11 And we onl y shr i mp i n deep wat er s,
12 l i ke Mr . Mat her s pr oposed, r i ght
13 t here. And, you know, i t ' s a shame
14 we' r e havi ng t hi s meet i ng. We coul d
15 have been pr ot ect i ng t hi s area
16 agai nst pi n - - or pi nf i sh and al l of
17 t hi s ot her ki nd of st uf f f or 13 year s
18 now. Because one of t he l ast
19 Commi ssi oner s had a meet i ng down here
20 suggest ed we meet wi t h t he GCCA, Mr .
21 Dumont , at Dauphi n I sl and. We di d
22 t hat . We made an agreement ver y
23 si mi l ar t o t hi s agr eement r i ght her e.
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1 At t he meet i ng t he other ni ght , Mr .
2 Dumont sai d he st i l l had t hat map.
3 So we' ve al r eady had t hi s agr eement
4 13 year s ago, or approxi matel y 12
5 year s ago. An ar t i cl e i n t he
6 newspaper si gned by Mr . Dumont and
7 al l of t hat . So we' ve al r eady had
8 t hi s agr eement . Yet we got t o get an
9 agr eement agai n? So, I t hi nk t he
10 GCCA t hen hasn' t st uck by t hei r
11 agreement . They coul d have been
12 pr ot ect i ng t hese f i sh f or 13 year s.
13 Why al l of a sudden do t hey t hi nk
14 t hey' ve got t o pr otect t hem now?
15 MS. NUMMY: You' ve got t o wr ap i t
16 up.
17 MR. CENTANNI : Do what ?
18 MS. NUMMY: You' ve got t o wr ap i t
19 up.
20 MR. CENTANNI : Okay.
21 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you,
22 s i r .
23 MS. NUMMY: I f you don' t know, I
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1 t i me ever ybody. We' ve got about 52
2 speaker s. I t ' s not t hat I want t o
3 i nt er r upt anyone. But I wi l l gi ve
4 you a mi nut e t o wr ap i t up. I t ' s not
5 t o be i mpol i t e, i t ' s j ust so we won' t
6 be her e unt i l si x o' cl ock t oni ght .
7 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: The next
8 speaker wi l l be Mr . Davi d Yeager .
9 MR. YEAGER: Good mor ni ng, Mr .
10 Chai r man. I ' m Davi d Yeager wi t h t he
11 Mobi l e Bay Nat i onal Est uary Progr am.
12 As you al l know, some months ago
13 Mobi l e Bay Est uar y Progr amwas
14 r equest ed t o f aci l i t at e di scussi ons
15 on t hi s no t r awl area establ i shment
16 i n por t i ons of Mobi l e Bay and
17 Mi ssi ssi ppi Sound, Gr and Bay. Ar eas
18 wher e t r awl i ng woul d be r est r i ct ed
19 year around.
20 Now, conser vat i on i nt erest s and
21 many sci ent i st s bel i eve t hat t he
22 est abl i shment of such zones woul d
23 pr ot ect habi t at and gr ass beds and
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1 j uveni l e pi nf i sh t hr ough t he
2 r educt i on of by- catch. And some
3 bel i eve t hat t hey woul d al l ow smal l er
4 commerci al l y- caught speci es t o grow
5 t o a mor e economi c si ze.
6 Commer ci al i nt er est , on t he other
7 hand, and some r ecr eat i onal shr i mper s
8 vi ew t hese est abl i shment s and such
9 zones as a f ur t her r egul at i on on an
10 al r eady st r ai ned r esour ce.
11 Some see t he no t r awl zones as a
12 di r ect t hr eat t o t hei r busi ness
13 l i vel i hoods.
14 Si nce l ate February, we' ve been
15 worki ng wi t h both si des on t hi s i ssue
16 t r yi ng t o devel op, compromi se our
17 communi t y posi t i on. Var i ous
18 pr oposal s f or area cl osur es have been
19 ci r cul at ed back and f or t h t o each
20 group.
21 Some of t he maps t hat you see i n
22 t he conser vat i on r ecommendat i ons, MRD
23 r ecommendat i ons st ate r epr esent i ng
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1 some of t hose groups.
2 However , t o dat e, no agr eement
3 has been r eached on an acceptabl e
4 ar ea of cl osur e.
5 The Chart er pr ovi ded t o me by my
6 organi zat i on and t hat has member s of
7 al l par t s of t he communi t y, both f r om
8 t he commerci al si de and f r om t he
9 r ecr eat i onal si de, f r om busi ness and
10 i ndust r y; you name i t . To advocate a
11 posi t i on onl y i f i t i s a communi t y
12 posi t i on, I cannot t oday advocat e any
13 par t i cul ar posi t i on because of t hat .
14 Does t hi s mean t hat t her e' s no
15 oppor t uni t y f or f ur t her di scussi on?
16 No. I t hi nk - - I don' t t hi nk so at
17 al l . I n i ndi vi dual di scussi ons, we
18 have f ound a wi l l i ngness i n some
19 areas t o compromi se on part i cul ar
20 ar eas.
21 I n ot her cases, we have seen
22 peopl e r emai n adamant t hat no
23 cl osur es shoul d be - - shoul d be made.
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1 Never t hel ess, cont i nued di al og on
2 t he st at e of our nat ur al r esour ces i s
3 absol ut el y i mper at i ve.
4 As Dr . Shi pp not ed, t hi s i s a
5 l ocal i ssue. But i s t he quest i on
6 sur r oundi ng i t ver y much l i ke t he
7 i ssues sur r oundi ng l ocal f i sher i es
8 i ssue? Who' s r i ght ? What ' s t he
9 sci ence behi nd i t ? What are t he
10 cost s on economi c i mpact s associ ated
11 wi t h var i ous f i shery management
12 deci si ons?
13 Gi ven t he di f f er ences on vi ews,
14 whet her or not such no t r awl zones
15 woul d be ef f ect i ve, what i s t he
16 bot t om l i ne? Most of us not act i vel y
17 i nvol ved i n f i sher y sci ence and
18 f i sher i es management do not know t he
19 answer t o t hat quest i on. I t ' s l i ke
20 someone once t ol d me, i t ' s very
21 di f f i cul t t o know exact l y what t i me
22 i t i s i f you' ve got more t han one
23 wat ch.
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1 The r eal quest i on we f ace i s how
2 best t o manage a sust ai nabl e and
3 t hr i vi ng f i sher y wi t hout dest r uct i on
4 of our i ndust r y or r ecr eat i onal
5 oppor t uni t i es. I t ' s not a quest i on
6 of when. That ' s al r eady been
7 est abl i shed. Even i f you choose not
8 t o r el y on one par t i cul ar watch as
9 your dat a, we must ensur e t he act i ons
10 we t ake t oday, use t he best avai l abl e
11 sci ence whi l e we work t o i mprove t hat
12 body of knowl edge.
13 And as you del i ber ate t oday, I
14 j ust l eave you wi t h a quote f r om
15 Abr aham Li ncol n t hat ' s been a
16 f avor i t e of mi ne on subj ect s l i ke
17 t hi s: "Ther e ar e f ew t hi ngs whol l y
18 evi l or whol l y good. Al most
19 ever yt hi ng, especi al l y publ i c pol i cy,
20 i s an i nseparabl e compound of t he
21 t wo; so t hat our best j udgment of t he
22 preponder ance bet ween t hem i s
23 cont i nual l y demanded. " Thank you.
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1 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you.
2 The next speaker wi l l Mr . Ed
3 Wi l l i amson.
4 MR. WI LLI AMS: Mr . Commi ss i oner ,
5 Mr . Chai r man, Member s of t he Board,
6 Ladi es and Gent l emen. I r epr esent
7 Coast al Conservat i on Associ at i on of
8 Al abama. My name i s Ed Wi l l i amson.
9 I ' m f rom Mobi l e.
10 CCA. Coast al Conversat i on
11 Associ at i on i s a member shi p
12 organi zat i on of about 90, 000 men and
13 women of t he cost al st at es most of
14 whom r esi de on t he Gul f Coast . The
15 CCA i s an organi zat i on t hat ' s based
16 on l i st eni ng t o sound mar i ne sci ence,
17 good conservat i on sci ence. And usi ng
18 t hat common sense and what makes
19 sense i n good j udgment . They hel p
20 pass r egul at i ons and enf orce t hose
21 r egul at i ons t o support t he mar i ne
22 r esour ce. We are an advocat e f or t he
23 r esour ce.
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1 I ' m speaki ng her e t oday on behal f
2 of t he r esour ce. I don' t want t o be
3 r edundant , but I woul d l i ke t o
4 comment and net out , i f you wi l l , t he
5 t hree mai n r easons why CCA has t hrown
6 i t s hat i n t he r i ng on t hat i ssue.
7 Good conser vat i on mar i ne sci ence
8 t el l s us t hat shr i mp t r awl i ng i n t he
9 shal l ow wat er s, si x and a hal f f eet
10 or so i nward, does i r r eparabl e damage
11 t o t he grass beds t hat we' ve been
12 t r yi ng t o nur t ur e as nur sery gr ound
13 f or 40 year s i n Mobi l e Bay. I ' ve
14 been worki ng wi t h t hi s of f and on f or
15 my ent i r e l i f et i me as I ' ve wat ched
16 t hose grass beds be dest r oyed
17 whi l e - - f or t he shri mp and t he cr ab
18 and t he pi nf i sh t hat we enj oy so much
19 i n t hi s l i t t l e pi ece of r eal estate
20 t hat goes f r om t he Fl or i da l i ne t o
21 t he Mi ssi ssi ppi l i ne. Thi s i s an
22 i ncomparabl e val ue pi ece of r eal
23 est at e.
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1 Mobi l e Bay i s t he nur ser y gr ound.
2 Dest r oyi ng t hose grass beds means
3 dest r uct i on t o t he speci es t hat l i ve
4 t her e. Par t of t hat i s t he by- cat ch
5 mor t al i t y. By- cat ch i s a f act. I t ' s
6 good mar i ne sci ence. There' s t oo
7 much mor t al i t y i n by- catch. Those
8 l i t t l e pi nf i sh and crab t hat use t hat
9 area as a nur si ng gr ound.
10 Thi r d, t he economi c val ue of t he
11 shr i mp t hat comes f r om t hat shal l ow
12 water i s mi ni mum. I eat shr i mp once
13 a week. Pr obabl y a l ot of you her e
14 do, t oo. And I enj oy some of t he
15 f i nest I ' ve ever had. The J ohnson
16 f ami l y who i s up her e t oday cat ches
17 i n t he shi p channel i n Mobi l e Bay
18 some of t he f i nest shr i mp t hat exi st
19 come f r omt hat ar ea. And I st r ongl y
20 r ecommend t hat t hose shr i mpers
21 cont i nue t o dr ag t hat area i n t hat
22 deep of water .
23 What we' r e aski ng i s you st ay out
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1 of t he shal l ow wat er . I t ' s t oo
2 i mpor t ant as a nur sery gr ound.
3 May I j ust r ei t er at e t hr ee st r ong
4 common sense poi nts: I f t he grass
5 beds are dest r oyed, t he shr i mp i n
6 t hat shal l ow wat er . The by- cat ch i s
7 t oo gr eat . The mor t al i t y on t he
8 by- cat ch i s t oo gr eat . To consi der
9 i t val uabl e. The economi c val ue of
10 t hose shr i mp t hat come f r om t hat
11 shal l ow wat er i s negl i gi bl e.
12 Those shr i mp ar e goi ng t o grow
13 up. They' r e goi ng t o move t o deeper
14 wat er. Cat ch t hem out t her e i n t he
15 deep wat er wher e t hey have great er
16 economi c val ue and everybody can
17 enj oy t hem.
18 About 2, 500 CCA member s i n
19 Al abama ar e sol i dl y behi nd t hi s
20 i ssue.
21 Wher e we' ve spoken i n t he past
22 si nce 1980 on t he r egul at ory i ssues,
23 we' ve had great success. We' r e
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1 enj oyi ng wonder f ul success on i t .
2 Ever ythi ng f r om speckl ed t r out t o r ed
3 snapper . Thi s makes good common
4 sense, good conser vat i on sense, good
5 mar i ne sci ence sense. And we
6 st r ongl y ur ge t hat you pass t hi s
7 cl osur e.
8 Thank you ver y much.
9 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you.
10 The next speaker wi l l be Gr eg
11 Leat herbur y.
12 MR. LEATHERBURY: Thank you, Mr .
13 Chai r man. My name i s Gr eg
14 Leat her bur y and I ' m a r esi dent of
15 Bal dwi n County. I ' m a member of CCA.
16 Mr . Dumont and I and ot her s hel ped
17 f or m t he Al abama Chapter of CCA back
18 i n 1981 or ' 82. We' ve been act i vel y
19 i nvol ved i n conservat i on of mar i ne
20 r esour ces and pr otect i on of our
21 habi t at and envi r onment . A l ot of
22 st udy has gone i nt o t hi s mat t er over
23 many, many year s. We' ve hear d al l of
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1 t he pr evi ous peopl e t al k t o t hose
2 i ssues. We have compet i ng i nt erest s,
3 obvi ousl y. And y' al l ar e i n char ge
4 of management of our r esour ces. I
5 know t hat t he deci si ons t hat you al l
6 have t o make somet i mes ar e ver y
7 di f f i cul t . I t hi nk you al l have done
8 a good j ob. I commend you.
9 A l ot of st udy has gone i nt o t hi s
10 and I ur ge you t o adopt t hi s mar i ne
11 r esour ces di vi si on r ecommendat i on.
12 Thank you.
13 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you,
14 Mr . Leat her bur y.
15 The next speaker i s Mr . Wal t er
16 Er nest .
17 MR. ERNEST: Thank you, Mr .
18 Chai r man. I ' m r epr esent i ng t he
19 Al abama Coast al Foundat i on t oday. We
20 support t he no t r awl zone f or sever al
21 r easons. The Al abama Coast al
22 Foundat i on, one of our mai n emphasi s
23 i s on water qual i t y. And t hi s ban
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1 wi l l i mpr ove wat er qual i t y. I t wi l l
2 al so al l ow us t o, as we poi nt out
3 t oday, what t he SA needs f r omt hat .
4 Anot her t hi ng i t wi l l do, as you' ve
5 been poi nt ed out , i s t o i ncr ease t he
6 pi nf i sh popul at i on and al l ow t he
7 j uveni l e shr i mp t o achi eve adul t
8 si ze.
9 That ' s al l about al l I have t o
10 say. We do suppor t t hi s measure and
11 I t hank you f or al l owi ng me t o speak.
12 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you.
13 The next speaker wi l l be Mr . Er ni e
14 Ander son.
15 MR. ANDERSON: Thank you. I ' m
16 Er ni e Ander son f r omMobi l e Count y.
17 I ' m cur r ent l y t he pr esi dent of
18 Or gani zed Seaf ood Associ at i on. I ' m
19 past di r ect or of t he Sout her n Shr i mp
20 Al l i ance. I ' m al so r epr esent i ng
21 Al abama on a di esel mar ket i ng boar d
22 f or Al abama and f or Amer i can Wi l d
23 Shr i mp. Thi s i ssue was br ought f ort h
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1 a f ew mont hs ago and was l ai d down on
2 t he t abl e. There was a meet i ng hel d
3 where Mr . Yeager was asked about t he
4 pr oposal . The pr oposal had a r ather
5 l arge amount of t he Upper Bay f r om
6 Dog Ri ver al l t he way across t o t he
7 East ern Shor e. And we came t o t hat
8 meet i ng. We l ooked at i t . There was
9 some di scussi on. We made i t cl ear
10 t hat we wer e not - - I ' m not i n a
11 posi t i on t oday t o advocat e or say
12 what t he shr i mp i ndust r y woul d agr ee
13 on or woul d not agr ee on. My
14 posi t i on was I was t r yi ng t o br i ng
15 t ogether some f ol ks f r omt he
16 shr i mpi ng i ndust r y t o par t i ci pat e i n
17 t hese meet i ngs t hat Mr . Yeager asked
18 us t o do and brought bef ore t he board
19 a f ew mont hs ago. And we' ve done i t
20 and put i t on t he t abl e af t er t hat
21 f i r st meet i ng - - t her e was a l ot of
22 di scussi on t oday about bi ol ogi st s,
23 about data, about i nf ormat i on. We' ve
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1 been at sever al meet i ngs wher e t hey
2 were di scussi ng i t . We' ve asked t he
3 i ndust r y and t hose f ol ks r epr esent i ng
4 t he i ndust r y at t hat meet i ng, asked
5 f or t hat dat a, put i t on t he t abl e,
6 l et us l ook, l et ' s see what you have.
7 Not hi ng was put down but i n
8 gener al i t i es.
9 I t woul d be a good t hi ng and we
10 bel i eve i t ' s a good t hi ng. You know,
11 t her e' s dat a support i ng i t . But none
12 of i t has been put on t he t abl e.
13 We had a - - we cal l ed f or a
14 publ i c hear i ng, organi zat i on met back
15 on February 26th. We had
16 approxi matel y 130 pl us shr i mper s and
17 seaf ood i ndust r y f ol ks meet f r om
18 Bayou La Batr e. They asked, I t hi nk
19 i t was ei ght or t en r epr esent at i ves,
20 peopl e and f ol ks r epr esent i ng i t and
21 we opened some di scussi on. I bel i eve
22 you mi ght have got t en some l et t er s
23 and cor r espondence f r om some of t hose
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1 f ol ks t hat met wi t h Mr . Yeager at
2 some meet i ngs.
3 And each t i me t here' s been - -
4 t her e' s been some di scussi on about
5 what - - what areas woul d af f ect t he
6 l i vel i hoods. That ' s t he f i r st t hi ng.
7 What t hei r l i vel i hood - - what woul d
8 ef f ect t he l i vel i hood. And i s t her e
9 any dat a. Agai n, l i ke I say, t her e
10 was never any dat a put on t he t abl e.
11 So t her e was some di scussi on at
12 t hose meet i ngs about t hat maybe we - -
13 i t woul d be a smal l area. And t here
14 needs t o be some st udy - - t her e needs
15 t o be some accur at e data put down
16 bef ore we act ual l y ef f ect t he
17 l i vel i hood of peopl e i n cl osur es i n
18 t hose areas.
19 And i f i t does ef f ect and cr eat e
20 i ncr eased pr oduct i on and cost . You
21 know, t hat ' s not somet hi ng I don' t
22 t hi nk anybody woul d be agai n i t . I
23 know t he shr i mper s especi al l y at t hi s
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1 t i me have spent mi l l i ons of dol l ar s
2 r i ght now doi ng st udyi ng, market i ng,
3 t r yi ng t o f i nd ways t o i ncr ease t he
4 i ndust r y. Not onl y t hat , but
5 Al abama, I spoke bef ore, about how
6 t he i ndust r y ef f ects Al abama and t he
7 amount of money t hat i s t her e.
8 But al so, you know, t her e i s - -
9 t here was a di scussi on about t he
10 Magnuson/ Stevenson Act . Okay. I
11 under st and t hat t her e was a l ower
12 cour t r ul i ng t hat was uphel d by a
13 hi gher appel l at e cour t r ul i ng t hat
14 t he wor d "pract i cal " i s i n t her e.
15 And "pr act i cal " was r ul ed by t he
16 appel l at e cour t r ul i ng not t o i ncl ude
17 cl osur e. Cl osur e was not pr act i cal .
18 Ther e' s not a pr act i cal sol ut i on t o
19 by- cat ch r educt i on.
20 Ther e' s a l ot of other avenues t o
21 t ake. But i t ' s not t her e. You know,
22 i t ' s not bei ng pr esent ed.
23 The ot her i ssues I r ecent l y
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1 underst ood t hat t hi s was br ought
2 up - -
3 MS. NUMMY: I ' l l gi ve you one
4 mor e mi nute.
5 MR. ANDERSON: Thank you. I t was
6 br ought up t hat t hi s was - - t hi s was
7 a t wo- year pr ocess. Over t hat t wo
8 years anyone f r om t he i ndust r y was
9 br ought i n, up unt i l j ust t hi s r ecent
10 - - j ust pr i or t o t he - - t he l ast
11 meet i ng. And I t hi nk t hat - - and I
12 suggest ed t hat i f we had an
13 opport uni t y t o br i ng t he i ndust r y
14 t ogether , whi ch we done at t he l ast
15 meet i ng t he other ni ght af t er our
16 meet i ng; i t was a good meet i ng. I
17 l ooked around, t here was f ol ks f r om
18 t he shr i mp i ndust r y, peopl e were
19 di scussi ng, havi ng some di scussi on.
20 But t hey haven' t had t hat i nput .
21 There' s f our generat i ons of knowl edge
22 i n t he seaf ood i ndust r y i n Al abama.
23 And t hey shoul d have t he i nput i nt o
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1 t hi s bef ore any deci si on bet ween - -
2 has been made or i s made by you al l .
3 I j ust don' t t hi nk t hat a cl osur e
4 t oday woul d be pr act i cal . Thank you.
5 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you,
6 Mr . Anderson. The next speaker wi l l
7 be Mr . Eugene J ohnson.
8 MR. J OHNSON: I ' m Eugene J ohnson.
9 I ' m f r om Bayou La Bat r e, Al abama.
10 I ' m a Mobi l e Count y r esi dent . And
11 I ' m her e on behal f of t he seaf ood
12 i ndust r y on bot h oyst er s, shr i mpi ng,
13 crabber s, f i shi ng. I made a l i vi ng
14 on i t . I ' m 60 year s ol d. I got 45
15 years of shr i mpi ng behi nd me. I
16 bui l t my own net s. I ' ve dr ug f or
17 shr i mp f r om Br ownsvi l l e, Texas t o
18 Cape Canaver al , Fl ori da over t o
19 J acksonvi l l e, Fl or i da. I dr ug shr i mp
20 net s f r omCape Coze, Mexi co, f r om
21 Mobi l e Bay t o Mi ssi ssi ppi . And i f
22 t he gr ass beds and al l are not
23 dest r oyed, t hey come ever y year .
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1 I ' l l st ar t i n Gr and Bay. When I
2 was ni ne or t en year s ol d, I hel ped
3 pl ant oyst er shel l wi t h Mr . Wi l l i am
4 Schnei der.
5 I ' m ner vous, I never spoke
6 bef ore.
7 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: You' r e doi ng
8 f i ne.
9 MR. J OHNSON: I st ar t ed of f
10 pl ant i ng oyst er shel l s when I was
11 ni ne year s ol d wi t h Mr . Wi l l i am
12 Schnei der . He woul d be a 100 and
13 some years ol d t oday i f he wer e st i l l
14 ar ound. And we had grass beds over
15 t her e t hen. We st i l l have gr ass
16 beds. Gr ass beds accumul ate dur i ng
17 t he wi nt er mont hs. When we go
18 oyst er i ng, t he gr ass beds accumul ate
19 i n t he wi nter mont hs. The shr i mp
20 f eed of f of t hese speckl ed t r out .
21 The by- cat ch, t he gover nment ' s goi ng
22 t o t ake car e of t hat . The St at e of
23 Al abama ai n' t got t o t ake car e of
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1 t hat . The government ' s t aki ng care
2 of t hat . They got t he f eds on us.
3 The government ' s t aki ng care of your
4 by- cat ch on f i sh l i nes. Al l r i ght .
5 Mobi l e Bay. I shr i mp t he channel
6 wi t h by daddy when al l we had was a
7 25- gal l on j ug wi t h wat er, no
8 el ect r oni cs, none of t hat . We dr ug
9 t he gr ass beds - - t he grass beds
10 accumul at e i n t he wi nter mont hs f or
11 t he seaf ood t o eat . Provi de shr i mp
12 t o f eed on, t he pi nf i sh f eed on t hat
13 and i t - - i t br eaks l oose and moves
14 on out i n t he summer mont hs.
15 And as f ar as t he oyst er s, I
16 caught oyst er s wi t h my daddy when
17 we' d cat ch pi ckup t r uck l oads. Not
18 t en or ei ght sacks, i t was pi ckup
19 t r uck l oads.
20 And t he ones t hat ' s f or dr edgi ng,
21 I was bor n and r ai sed wi t h ever y one
22 of t hem. I ' m agai nst t hat because
23 dr edgi ng - - i f you l egal i ze dr edgi ng
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1 i n t he st at e of Al abama, you' r e goi ng
2 t o dest r oy t he i ndust r y. We' r e her e
3 t o pr ot ect t he i ndust r y, not dest r oy
4 i t . I f peopl e al l ow dr edgi ng i n t he
5 st at e of Al abama, you' r e goi ng t o
6 dest r oy t he oyst er i ndust r y.
7 I wor ked on t ug boat s up i n
8 Mobi l e Bay. I deal Seaf ood Company.
9 Radcl i f f Seaf ood Company. They' r e
10 dest r oyi ng Mobi l e Bay. They di g t he
11 shel l s and pump t he mud on oyst er s
12 and when t hey di e t hey' r e goi ng - - I
13 used t o si t out t her e wi t h my pocket
14 kni f e and eat t hem. I was f i shi ng
15 when I was 15 year s ol d. I got 45
16 year s of seaf ood work behi nd my bel t .
17 And I t hank y' al l f or l i st eni ng t o
18 me. But I ' m agai nst ever ythi ng t hey
19 pr oposi ng on i t and i t ' s t aki ng more
20 f ood away f r omus and i t ' s not goi ng
21 t o hel p us, t he r ecr eat i onal ar ea,
22 and i t ' s not hel pi ng t he commer ci al
23 man what soever . I ' m agai nst i t .
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1 Thank y' al l f or l i steni ng.
2 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: Thank you,
3 Mr . J ohnson.
4 The next speaker wi l l be J ames
5 Nowel l .
6 MR. NOWELL: My name i s J ames
7 Nowel l . And I ' ve been a commerci al
8 f i sher man over 40 years at Mobi l e
9 Bay. I ' ve been dr aggi ng Mobi l e Bay.
10 And I ' m agai nst any cl osur e of Mobi l e
11 Bay.
12 To st ar t wi t h, you' r e worr i ed
13 about by- catch. As many boat s t hat ' s
14 goi ng out of busi ness, i t ' s t aki ng
15 car e of i t sel f . You ai n' t goi ng t o
16 have hal f t he peopl e out t here.
17 Ever y year , i t ' s get t i ng l ess and
18 l ess. Peopl e can' t make a l i vi ng
19 anymor e. By- cat ch l i ke t hat wi l l
20 t ake car e of i t sel f .
21 I f you' r e wor r i ed about gr ass
22 beds - - whi ch t hey' r e not wor r i ed
23 about gr ass beds, t hat ' s j ust an
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1 excuse. They' r e wor r i ed about grass
2 beds, t hen go up her e and get al l
3 t hese chemi cal compani es, al l t hese
4 sewages. Ever y year - - I mean, every
5 week mi l l i ons of gal l ons are dumped
6 i n Mobi l e Bay. Sewage. Not hi ng ever
7 sai d about i t . A l i t t l e ar t i cl e i n
8 t he paper . Mi l l i ons of gal l ons. Why
9 don' t t hey do somethi ng about t hat i f
10 t hey' r e worr i ed about gr ass? That ' s
11 j ust a f r ont i s al l t hat i s: Gr ass.
12 We had a meet i ng her e and we had
13 t hr ee or f our pr oposal s. Whi ch one
14 of t hese pr oposal s ar e y' al l t al ki ng
15 about , you know, cl osure? We' ve had
16 t hr ee or f our peopl e t hat
17 pr oposed wher e y' al l ar e t al ki ng
18 about?
19 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: We wi l l
20 pr esent t hat l at er i n t he meet i ng
21 t oday.
22 MR. NOWELL: Okay. Li ke I sai d,
23 I ' ve been shr i mpi ng f or 40 year s.
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1 These peopl e t hat ' s t est i f i ed up her e
2 seem t o know wher e t he bi g shr i mp and
3 stuf f i s , I ' d l i ke t o hi r e some of
4 t hemt o go t o work f or me. I mean,
5 t hey seem t o know mor e about
6 somethi ng t han what we do. I ' d l i ke
7 t o hi r e t hem on my boat . I r eal l y
8 woul d.
9 And t he oyst er beds - - and I
10 don' t dr edge oyst ers . I don' t t ongue
11 oyst ers. I ' m not man enough t o
12 t ongue oyst er s. But I ' m goi ng t o
13 t el l you, I know a bunch of peopl e
14 t hat does and t hey' r e dead set
15 agai nst t hi s dr edgi ng, t he maj or i t y
16 are. You don' t want t o pass no
17 dr edgi ng l aws i n Al abama f r om what I
18 under st and. But t hi s by- cat ch, l i ke
19 I t ol d you and t he bi g shr i mp,
20 t hey' r e i n shal l ow wat ers as wel l as
21 t hey' r e i n deep water s. Sur el y t hey
22 got enough sense t o know t hat f i sh
23 and shr i mp swi m, you know; I hope
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1 t hey do. I f t hey don' t know t hat
2 t hey swi m, t hey don' t need t o be up
3 her e t al ki ng. Al l r i ght . I ' m dead
4 set agai nst any cl osur e. Thank you.
5 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: The next
6 speaker wi l l be Bi l l ei t her J aecht er
7 or Haecht er . I s Mr . J aecht er her e?
8 I t ' s ei t her Mr . H- a- e or ei t her
9 J - a- e- c- h- t - e- r .
10 MS. NUMMY: He had t o go.
11 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: The next
12 speaker t hen i s Mr . Har r y J ohnson.
13 MR. J OHNSON: I appreci ate i t .
14 I ' m al so agai nst t he oyster dr edgi ng
15 out i n Mobi l e Bay. Al l t hey do i s
16 r ui n t hem. I ' ve oyst er dr edged i n
17 Loui si ana and I ' ve oyst er dr edged
18 wi t h a l ot of peopl e. I ' ve worked on
19 dr edge boat s and i t ' s j ust - - you
20 ki l l t he r eef s. Dr edge t ear s t he
21 channel s up and t he next t hi ng you
22 know your oyst ers di e on you.
23 And as f ar as t he f i shi ng, I
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1 don' t know nothi ng about t hat . I
2 don' t f i sh. Al l I do i s cat ch
3 oyst ers wi t h my daddy. I ' ve been
4 cat chi ng oyst ers wi t h my daddy al l my
5 l i f et i me and t hey' r e get t i ng wor ser
6 and har der t o cat ch t han what t hey
7 used t o be.
8 I r emember we used t o go out and
9 - - l i ke t he guy sai d, i n boat s, 40,
10 50 sacks i n l ess t han t hr ee and a
11 hal f , f our hour s j ust about . And now
12 when you go out , you' r e l ucky t o get
13 ei ght sacks i n a day' s t i me. From
14 si x o' cl ock i n t he morni ng or seven
15 o' cl ock i n t he morni ng t o 3: 00 i n t he
16 eveni ng, you' r e goi ng t o be l ucky i f
17 you get ei ght sacks out t her e.
18 That ' s how bad i t ' s get t i ng. I f t hey
19 put t he dr edges i n t her e, t hey' r e
20 goi ng t o r ui n t he r eef s i s what
21 t hey' r e goi ng t o do.
22 That ' s al l I got t o say.
23 CHAI RMAN MOULTRI E: The next
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1 speaker wi l l Mr . Aver y Bat es.
2 MR. BATES: My name i s Avery
3 Bat es. I ' m f r om Mobi l e Count y and
4 I ' ve l i ved i n I r vi ngt on t he l ast t en
5 year s, Bayou La Bat r e most al l of my
6 l i f e.
7 I ' m a commerci al f i sher men. And
8 we and - - t her e' s been many probl ems
9 over t he year s f i ght i ng speci al
10 i nt er est and t hi s i s j ust anot her
11 t i me. And we' r e agai nst t he dr edgi ng
12 f or var i ous r easons. We' r e agai nst
13 t he shr i mpi ng cl osur es f or var i ous
14 r easons.
15 And as f ar as bi ol ogi cal r easons,
16 t he dredgi ng can dest r oy t he
17 mechani cal worki ngs; mar i ne. Most l y
18 i t ' s sof t bot t om. You' ve got some
19 smal l area of hard bot t om. I t woul d
20 j ust cr eat e an enf orcement ni ght mare.
21 The gr ass beds t hat t hey' r e wor r i ed
22 about , i f t hey' r e r eal l y wor r i ed
23 about grass beds, i t woul d t ake 1800
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1 f eet t hat t hey' r e al l owed bei ng
2 dredged and - - a dredge t hat may
3 wei gh i n excess of a hundr ed pounds,
4 t hat f or ce can dest r oy or hur t gr ass
5 beds. A 100 pound dredge i s di ggi ng
6 si x i nches under t he bot t om. What
7 woul d t hat do t o a grass bed? Nobody
8 sai d anyt hi ng about t hat . Why?
9 Speci al i nt er est .
10 We know beyond a shadow of a
11 doubt t hat dr edgi ng i n t he st at e of
12 Al abama i n t he past has not been
13 pr of i t abl e. That ' s how come our
14 f or ef at her ' s knocked i t i n t he head.
15 And t he f act t hat t he dredge i n here
16 - - t hey say i t ' s a new exper i ence.
17 Ther e' s not hi ng new about i t ; i t ' s
18 been goi ng on f or gener at i ons. We
19 know t hey' l l dest r oy i t . That ' s t he
20 r eason our f or ef at her s sai d no t o i t .
21 That ' s t he r eason we say no t o i t .
22 As f ar as dr edgi ng bot t oms i n
23 Mobi l e Bay, anot her speci al i nt er est
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1 t hi ng. They t al k about habi t at .
2 Man, ever ywhere you l ook t here' s oi l
3 f i sh r eef . That ' s habi t at . Ther e' s
4 oi l pumps - - oi l company wi t h oi l i n
5 i t . That ' s habi t at . You can' t dr ag
6 - - you can' t dr ag on a nat ur al r eef .
7 That ' s al r eady document ed. We' ve got
8 numer ous r eef s now t hat has got
9 concr et e pi l i ngs or concret e cul ver t s
10 ar ound i t . And t otal wast e of our
11 shel l r esour ce, we' ve had 10, 000
12 yar ds of shel l on a r eef i n 1998 and
13 do you know how many oyst er s t hat ' s
14 pr oduced so f ar? Zero. 20, 000
15 oyst ers out si de Bouey Reef out of
16 what you cal l f i sh - - and - - and
17 shel l . Do you know how many oyst er s
18 t hat pr oduced back i n ' 98? Zero.
19 And some on what you cal l t he Boyki n
20 Smi t h Reef . The Lynn Boyki n Smi t h, a
21 f ew back year s. Do you know how many
22 oyst ers t hat produced? Zero. When
23 you consi der al l t he zeros t hat we
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1 had i n 2001, we had oyst er shel l s
2 even bei ng pl ant ed around t he south
3 end of Dauphi n I sl and around t he
4 pumpi ng st at i on at ni ght and i t was
5 t oo har d t o l oad t he shel l s f r om
6 around t hat and t hat area never
7 produced; never has produced. The
8 shel l s t hat was supposed t o have been
9 on t he r eef went around t hi s area.
10 Speci al i nt er est seems t o be sl i ppi ng
11 i n and get t i ng what t hey want . Guess
12 what t he 10, 000 yards of cor al went
13 i n and out of Mobi l e Bay. And t hey
14 come back hey, t hem suckers are
15 pl ant ed out t here. They' r e supposed
16 t o br i ng i n oyst er s out t her e. Some
17 of t hat concr et e i s as bi g as
18 basebal l s - - as basket bal l s and some
19 as bi g as bowl i ng bal l s. You can' t
20 haul t hem. Have you ever t r i ed t o
21 haul a concr et e bl ock - - t hat ' s
22 bi gger t han a concr et e bl ock, i t ' s
23 i mpossi bl e. What are you doi ng wi t h
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1 t hi s st uf f ? Maki ng f i shi ng r eef s.
2 Fi shi ng r eef s - - you can' t dr ag on a
3 f i shi ng reef . I t wi l l go t hrough i t ;
4 you wi l l your chai ns out . Thi s i s
5 about speci al i nt erest r unni ng you
6 out . 98 per cent of our seaf ood comes
7 f r om our est uar i es. We' r e concer ned
8 about est uar i es. I bought al l my
9 cl othes wi t h commerci al f i shi ng
10 money. So di d al l of t hese other
11 peopl e t al ki ng here. They don' t want
12 t o see dredgi ng. They don' t want t o
13 see t he bot t om cl osed. Who are you
14 goi ng t o put out of busi ness? They
15 t al k about shal l ow wat er shr i mpi ng,
16 t hese shr i mp areas t hat t hey opened
17 l ast year , t he shr i mp' s t oo smal l .
18 The smal l est shr i mp t hey f ound i n any
19 ar ea, accor di ng t o t he conservat i on
20 of f i cer t hat I t al ked t o, was 26/ 30s.
21 Thi s has been goi ng on f or year ,
22 af t er year , af t er year . And 26/ 30s,
23 a l egal count i s 68. Some of t hese
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1 ar eas ar e 15/ 20s. Do you r eal i ze i t
2 onl y t akes one day f or shr i mp t o dr op
3 out of t he bay, i t hi t s t he t i de, one
4 day hi t s t he Gul f . Why? I f you have
5 a l ow pressur e area move t hrough,
6 pow, t hey pass t hr ough. Do you know
7 how f ast t he cur r ent moves? I heard
8 a f el l ah say i t moves 20 mi l es an
9 hour t o Tensaw, you can' t even drag
10 agai nst i t . Do you know what t hat
11 shr i mp does? He get s under t he
12 water , and boom, he hi t s t he Gul f .
13 Do you know what t he shr i mper gets?
14 Zero. I n ot her wor ds, no money i n
15 hi s back pocket . No f ood on t he
16 t abl e. What about al l t he
17 r est aur ant s her e t hat depend on our
18 seaf ood? Al l t he peopl e t hat eat
19 t hem? We produced i n t he l ast 100
20 year s j ust on oyster s al one,
21 document ed r ecor d