Blaq Rage on Marxism

Blaq Rage10 hours ago via mobile ·

The relevence of Marxism to Africa! "This is an old and important debate , the relevence of Marxism to Africa. My comrades raise it in the guise of those that claim to be class conscious as opposed to those that claim to be black power conscious, the danger in this line of thinking is that these struggles (class and race) get delinked when infact all struggles are intertwined and the mother of all of them is Capitalism. At all times we need to go back to our history to understand why we are oppressed, why Africa is still is oppressed and exploited. Capitalism and imperialism in the form of neo-colonialism is the reason. The bases of Marxist thought comes from peoples relationship to the material world, We live in a Capitalist dominant society so this question is asked from our mode of reasoning which is a bourgeois framework of perception. Marxism is independant of time and place, it is a methodology. Our African leaders used a Marxist approach and applied it to Africa, Thomas Sankara used it, Amilcar Cabral, Nkwame Nkrumah, Patrice Lumumba and so forth.."Like · · Share

o Mandlenkosi Ka Phangwa and 3 others like this.

o

Linda Ndebele Great analysis

9 hours ago · Like · 1

o

Siyolo Ncula Wow !very profound

9 hours ago via mobile · Like

o

Moziah Garvey "Marxism is independant of time and place"; how so? Please elaborate how the ideas of Karl Marx, a European who examined European society, are void of time and place?

9 hours ago · Like

o

Blaq Rage Marxism as explained above is a method that was developed to combat and overthrow Capitalism. A method or formula is thus independent in that sense, 1+1 is stil so anywhere in world brother Mozziah.

8 hours ago via mobile · Like · 1

o

Blaq Rage It has been applied throughout some parts of the world ie. Cuba, China , Africa etc. in the fight against Capitalism, imperialism . Ofcause it is tailored according to the needs of a particular place.

https://www.facebook.com/linda.ndebele.10

https://www.facebook.com/sncula

https://www.facebook.com/Rasthando

https://www.facebook.com/Mayoyo3131



o

Thabo Ntoni I agree with you Dear Daughter. Marxism as a tool, is dynamic and there for it adapts. I can just add that though causaly closely related to the race question, settler-colonialism and the national question are normally ignored or understated in some articulations of Marxism.

No doubt, in Africa, the national question can only be resolved through a proletarian revolution that establishes a dictatorship of the African proletariat. Settler proletarians are generally bigoted and reactionary precisely because of their fear and resistance to lose what they continue to benefit spiritually and materially from the long standing dispossession of the indigenous majority. This characteristic places them on a collision course to the African proletariat, and therefore makes them the object of the African proletarian dictatorship.

Eurocentric articulations of Marxism therefore harbour interests of perpetuating settler-colonialism: be it in Brazil, Australia or South Africa. Africanistic orientation of Marxism therefore is the solution for Azania. Sobukwe called this approach Pan Africanism. It maintains its socialist content and essence.

Lastly, the term "Marxism" was rejected by Karl Marx himself. He once declared he was no Marxist! The accurate classification is therefore Scientific Socialism.


o

Mandlenkosi Ka Phangwa "There must be something rotten in the very core of the social system which increases its wealth without decreasing the misery. Karl Marx" , today Black people are living under extreme conditions below poverty line , yet the system continues to accumulate more profits at the expense of the Black power,sweat , blood and labour. Good analysis comrade Yolisa .

8 hours ago via mobile · Edited · Like · 1

o

Moziah Garvey Its ironic that both Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels (German fathers of Marxism) were a products, beneficiaries and part and parcel of the oppressive bourgeois, they both were racists no different than other whites of their time...Marx, Engels, Carlyle, Dickens, Duikheim, Weber, Rousseau - and all these scholars of white supremacy - all share one belief prevalent throughout mankind’s history down to today: the belief that some people are endowed with superior intelligence and wisdom, and they’ve been ordained to forcibly impose that wisdom on the masses. How their ideas came to be deemed "universal" and void of "time and place" is another story!

7 hours ago · Like

o

Thami Hukwe Karl Marx was not a marxist but a revolutionary. He develops the instruments of analysis not only to understand the world but to change the world and bring about a classless society.


o

https://www.facebook.com/thabo.ntoni

https://www.facebook.com/mandlenkosi.kaphangwa

https://www.facebook.com/Rasthando

https://www.facebook.com/thami.hukwe


Mandlenkosi Ka Phangwa Karl Marx worked-out and propagated a theoretical basis for the struggle of the oppressed to attain a higher form of human society which is Socialism.

7 hours ago · Edited · Like · 3

o

Tsepo Phokeng ''We are not Communist, Socialist or Catholics, we are African Nationalist'' - Patrice Lumumba

Patrice Lumumba rejected Marxism in Public yet Africans say he was a Marxist. I am reading a book by Cabral and he also rejected Marxism yet you people say he was a Marxist. Dr Chinwezu also rejected Marxism. Haibo Africans we need to be independent of all these foreign doctrines. Eish.

7 hours ago via mobile · Edited · Like

o

Tsepo Phokeng Karl Marx was a Jew and the Leninist revolution was funded by Jews. Ma Africa don't just read books, do research on what happened in those days.


o

Tsepo Phokeng Steve Biko also rejected Marxism

''We want to remove the white man from our table, strip the table of all trappings put on it by him, decorate it in true African style, settle down and then ask him to join us on our own terms'' - Steve Biko.


o

Mandlenkosi Ka Phangwa Tsepo Phokeng ? who said Lumumba was a Marxist ? did you read the post carefully? if you read well it says " used Marxist approach" , Tsepo Phokeng bra you are a nationalist hence you wont accept Marxism–Leninism .


o

Mandlenkosi Ka Phangwa Tsepo now you are insinuating , Biko ?


o

Blaq Rage @brother Moziah, ok..you can attack the people all day, it's fine it's the ideas that are a problem. Ideas do not just fall from the sky, they are informed by our material conditions. I think cadres were on the money to add the limitations of Marxism to the race question etc. However, our Pan

https://www.facebook.com/tsepo.phokeng.1






Africanist leaders and i will dare include Biko covered the race question. Bantu Biko and Mangaliso Sobukwe were brilliant in not being too obssesed with quoting names when using Scientific Socialism tools of analysis in their BC and Pan Africanist approach. I think we should follow the examples of these two leaders and use these tools without obssesing about names of Marx, Lenin, Trotsky et al. I think it is the name tags which are a problem, not ideas.


o

Tsepo Phokeng No im an African and African problems need African solutions, we need to stop identifying ourselves with the European struggle, we are Africans. How are we different from Mandela who replaced white colonialist with black colonialist? How are we different? This is not a class issue, it is a race issue. Blacks have nothing, absolutely nothing yet you fighting class battle, haibo Africans. In case you have not noticed it is whites that enslaved you, and then oppressed you under apartied and now their diseases and their armies are murdering you, it is a race issue. Imperialism is white, Karl Marx does not identify it as white. He focuses more on class. Capitalism vs Socialism. Ma Africa in case you have not noticed there are no black capitalist, what is a black capitalist? I have not read your comments however, I just want to tell you this is a race issue. Whites are oppressing us and they don't identify themselves as capitalist or socialist, whites are whites and they see you as Kaffirs. Finish and Klaar.


o

Mandlenkosi Ka Phangwa Tsepo Phokeng whats your alternative to Capitalism?


o

Blaq Rage Tsepo Phokeng , please refer us to the book you are reading. Amilca Cabral made it clear in his Weapon of Theory essay that the best he could do for his people is to go back to the basics of methadology of Marx and Engels. To


o

Tsepo Phokeng Right now we need to topple this system and all its philosophies. I was reading up on the Japanese struggle and I noticed the Japanese first had a revolution and then came up with their own philosophies and systems. That Country has no minerals and no resources yet it is a potential superpower. No foreign companies dominate the Japanese economy-that is the crucial point! If you go to that country, it is on Japanese terms; they tell you what you can and cannot do. Japan has its own philosophies and its own revolutionary theories. We Africans can't even come up with our own education system. So many of you are educated and so many of you fought in the struggle yet you would rather make a noise about a Jewish philosophy (Marxism) instead of teaching the young about the African struggle. Thomas Sankara got murdered by a leader who is against Socialism. Patrice Lumumba was murdered by a ''capitalist,'' this is exactly what the white man wants. These philosophies divide Africa. We need to come up with one that will unite us because as long as we look at ourselves through European eyes there will always be those who don't agree which will make African unity impossible. Just study South African history and study the number of blacks killed by blacks and then tell me how we are changing anything. Cabral said we need to be independent of all foreign ideas otherwise our struggle is useless.






o

Blaq Rage This he attributes to the fact that we have a history of classes which cannot be ignored. He reffers to Marx and Engels classic statement "The history of all existing societies is the class struggle"


o

Tsepo Phokeng ''until we have mental independence-absolute independence in our way of thinking and acting-and apply it to control our territory and economy and culture, we are not independent'' - Cabral.


o

Mandlenkosi Ka Phangwa Quotes are correct but lets also deal with questions at hand Tsepo Phokeng , What is your alternative to Capitalism ? lets not even go to argue on Cabral because he is a Marxist .

6 hours ago · Like

o

Tsepo Phokeng What does Marx know about Africa? I choose Marcus Garvey over Marx. Dr Amos Wilson warned us about these white parasites who come disguised as revolutionaries. Was the leninist revolution not funded by the same people he called Capitalist? Andithi they overthrew Nicholas Star so that Russia could participate in the Capitalist war, is that not what happened? Today Africans have no revolutionary theory, we have no African system, we have no African education and we have no African philosophies. We were colonized by Europe yet we expect Europeans philosophies to liberate us. These philosophies can't even liberate Europe how are they going to liberate Africa? Are these so called Marxist countries not under a Capitalist banking system? Study colonialism thoroughly guys, don't just read Communist Manifesto.


o

Tsepo Phokeng Bra Mandla you can't ask me that question. African need to work together to come up with their own solutions. Other continents did it, why can't we? Dr Chinwezu told us to focus on how we can overthrow this system first and then come up with whatever system will be relevant to the African struggle. Right now we are wasting time talking about Karl Marx.


o

Blaq Rage You know Tsepo Phokeng in 1935 some SA communist member wrote a letter to Leon Trotsky seeking counsel for our struggle. Trotsky wrote a letter in response .titled " The race and







agriaran question.". In this response he says Africans are the only people that will determ their future, if whites want to be part of Africa they must do under the conditiones of the indegenous people of Africa. He added that he is not adequatly informed about our conditions. What i am trying to say is that, Africans know that our liberation will come from us. We solve our problems ourselves, remember that we are dealling with an oppressive WS and Capitalist system, the antithesis to that is Scientific Socialism.


o

Tsepo Phokeng How is socialism a solution to capitalism? Were Mozambique, Angola and Somali not Socialist countries? Socialism is as reactionary as Capitalism, right now none of these systems will liberate Africa. Marcus Garvey and Patrice Lumumba were two of the greatest Africans of the 20th century and they were both against socialism and capitalism. This is not a class issue guys, this is a race issue. Europeans know how to fool the countries they colonize. By Periodically changing the systems from Capitalism to Socialism and Socialism to communist they make us think we are moving forward and then when this happens they feed us false information about free education and equal sharing of wealth. Truth is all countries in the world fall under the imperialist banking system, including Cuba, Belgium and Venezuela. These colonizers control these countries through the IMF and the United Nations. We need to study the system guys. Right now in Africa we need to get rid of all European philosophies. Japan has embraced its cultures and philosophies. An economic revolution without a cultural revolution is reactionary, how is Marx part of our culture? Our leaders have failed us.


o

Mandlenkosi Ka Phangwa Tsepo I am concerned about those "own ways" which are those bra ? , sister Blaq Rage you just educated us of another Marxist view on the Azanian situation dating back to 1935 , ngiyabinga sisi , please continue to teach Black Queen.


o

Mandlenkosi Ka Phangwa Tsepo bra please dont tail bite answer coherently not giving us a known background , remember you preaching to the converted seeking to be convinced , IMF and UN are Capitalist institutions , colonialism sterms from imperialism which is the worse stage of capitalism, so Tsepo give us solutions not quotes bra.

6 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1

o

Mandlenkosi Ka Phangwa Tsepo bra lets read and understand yizwa -Consequently, socialism in Africa introduces a new social synthesis in which modern technology is reconciled with human values, in which the advanced technical society is realised without the staggering social malefactions and deep schisms of capitalist industrial society. For true economic and social development cannot be promoted without the real socialisation of productive and distributive processes. Those African leaders who believe these principles are the socialists in Africa. Nkwame Nkrumah






o

Mandlenkosi Ka Phangwa Nkruma further closes it down Tsepo Phokeng :-All available evidence from the history of Africa up to the eve of the European colonisation, shows that African society was neither classless nor devoid of a social hierarchy. Feudalism existed in some parts of Africa before colonisation; and feudalism involves a deep and exploitative social stratification, founded on the ownership of land. It must also be noted that slavery existed in Africa before European colonisation, although the earlier European contact gave slavery in Africa some of its most vicious characteristics. The truth remains, however, that before colonisation, which became widespread in Africa only in the nineteenth century, Africans were prepared to sell, often for no more than thirty pieces of silver, fellow tribesmen and even members of the same “extended family” and clan. Colonialism deserves to be blamed for many evils in Africa, but surely it was not preceded by an African Golden Age or paradise. A return to the pre-colonial African society is evidently not worthy of the ingenuity and efforts of our people.


o

Thabo Ntoni Any Pan Africanism, Black Consciousness, Scientific Socialism or whatever ideology that claims to be liberatory and emancipatory, is evil, oppressive, exploitative and degrading if it does not abolish the enstrangement of man from his land, his labour and his product of labour:

"Enstrangement manifests itself in part in that the sophistication of needs and of the means (of their satisfaction) on the one side produces a bestial barbarisation, a complete, crude, abstract simplicity of need, on the other; or rather in that it merely reproduces itself in its opposite. Even the need for fresh air ceases to be a need for the worker. Man returns to a cave dwelling, which is now, however, contaminated with the pestilential breath of civilisation, and which he continues to occupy only precariously, it being for him an alien habitation which can be withdrawn from him any day – a place from which, if he does not pay, he can be thrown out any day. For this mortuary he has to pay. A dwelling in the light, which Prometheus in Aeschylus designated as one of the greatest boons, by means of which he made the savage into a human being, ceases to exist for the worker. Light, air, etc. – the simplest animal cleanliness – ceases to be a need for man. Filth, this stagnation and putrefaction of man – the sewage of civilisation (speaking quite literally) – comes to be the element of life – for him. Utter, unnatural depravation, putrefied nature, comes to be his life-element. None of his senses exist any longer, and (each has ceased to function) not only in its human fashion, but in an inhuman fashion, so that it does not exist even in an animal fashion..."


o

Mandlenkosi Ka Phangwa Cde Moziah Garvey maybe you can also also assist on this regard since Tsepo Phokeng is still recollecting his memory and response to the anti Marxist stance you have also supported.


o

Blaq Rage Tsepo Phokeng , the quote you used of Biko is inline with Leon Trotsky's advice to his SA comrade in that 1935 letter in which he says that the natives in SA are the only people that will dicide the future of SA and if whites want to live in Sa they will do so on the terms and conditions of the native! The same assertion Sobukwe makes in the 1959 Pan Africanist manifesto!






o

Blaq Rage How did you deduce that Biko was anti-Marxism?


o

Tsepo Phokeng Was he Marxist?


o

Blaq Rage His writings suggest that he agreed with Marxism, he was a Socialist!


o

Tsepo Phokeng So if you a socialist you agree with Marxism? Ha ha now socialist is synonymous with Marxism. Lol ok.


o

Tsepo Phokeng Its funny how everything that started in Africa has become synonymous with Europe. Soon we will compare Biko to Tony Blair


o

Blaq Rage Tsepo Phokeng , you came here throwing quotes around and making wild accusations one of them being that Biko was anti-Marxist. I am interested in understang how you claim to this conclusion. The quote you threw contradicts your claim. Lol your Biko quote is Trotskyte (hahaha)


o

Blaq Rage You are obssed with Europe wena, maybe you secretly love it, you must, because it is anti-socialism and Capitalistic!









o

Mandlenkosi Ka Phangwa Tsepo has a funny way of running away from sustaining his insinuations . even now he runs away from sustaining his assumptions.


o

Thabo Ntoni The thinking that Scientific Socialism, because its fundamentals were articulated first by a European called Karl Marx, is a European solution if not an anti-African problem is fundamentally flawed.

Had it not been for the thinkers and revolutionaries before Karl Marx, the latter could not have arrived at the conclusions he did. Had it not been for the slave revolts in the Americas, including the closely related Haitian and French revolutions, which revolutions and revolts Marx considered the most important international aspect of the anti-capitalist revolution at the time, there wouldn't be any Marxism to talk about.

Knowledge is human knowledge is human knowledge. Just as the Greeks adopted African philosophies and sciences, which in turn prompted further cycles of the development of human knowledge globally, and the interspersing and cross-pollination that must naturally occur- we must accept that this has been the case from Imhotep to Padrejean, François Mackaland, Dutty Boukman (enslaved and uprooted African revolutionaries in Haiti from 1676, 1757 and 1791 respectively) to Toussaint Louverture to Karl Marx to Marcus Garvey and du Bois to Lenin and Trotsky to George Padmore and CLR James to Lembede and Mda to Sobukwe and Raboroko to Biko et al.

Scientific Socialism is also a tool of revolution. Just as our African ancestors from as early as 1652 used European firearms against European settler colonists. Scientific Socialism as human knowledge heritage belongs to the African people too. They contributed in its development directly, practically and theoretically. As they continue to do so to this day.

2 hours ago via mobile · Edited · Like · 1

o

Timothy Whitt In order for socialism or anytype of collective ecomomic system to develop and prosper in Africa, it is necessary for it to exist on a continental basis because the imperialist will work to sabotage it, since a conitnental program is necessary, it is also necessary to develop a continental loyalty, a continental nationalism and that is Pan-Africanism, therefor you can not develop socialism or anytype of collective economy with pan africanism: one objective condition that exist on the continent is tribalism and micro-nationalism which must be combated to defeat imperialism. pan africanism is a must.


o

Timothy Whitt Racsim is partly a by-product of capitalism and just because you have socialism does not mean you automatically get rid of White supremacy. racism/white supremacy have taken on a material reality of their own. For example, after years of trying to develop socialism in the soviet union, there are racist attacks against Black people and people of color. Racism exist in china and every country in the world, it takes on a life of its own. So, Black people must have a pan afrcanist world view.




https://www.facebook.com/timothy.whitt.35


o

Thabo Ntoni Cde Timothy Whitt. Whereas we agree on the necessity and urgency of Pan Africanism, we must highlight that the USSR and China were definitely not socialist states. Both were bureaucratic dictatorships that enslaved, oppressed and decimated their working classes. Socialism must be understood to mean a proletarian democracy in which the working class rules. Your observations on white supremacy in those states must also be understood in that anti-working class and non-socialist context.


o

Timothy Whitt @Thabo your points are well taken. The central point is that we as Black people must not be so gullible to think that ideology alone makes for change. When the Soviet Union was being attacked by The Nazi regime, Stalin did not rally the Soviet people around Socialism, even though socialist organization help save the soviet union, Stalin appealed to the people by saying the nazis were attacking mother russia, which is nationalism. My point is that without Pan africanism as nkrumah often preached there can be no true socialist construction in Africa.

2 hours ago · Like

o

Timothy Whitt Mao's greatest contrubution to the Chinese revolution was a military one, he was probably the only central committe member who did not leave china and go to the Soviet union to study. He stayed in contact with what was actually happening in china and rejected the attempts by the comitern international to direct the military strategy and Mao was correct in his analysis.

2 hours ago · Like

o

Timothy Whitt If it is true that the economic base creates the societies social structure and world view then racism and white supremacy are also by products and marx did not address this point in depth, neither did he or was able to address the impact it would have on the Black psyche. Ideiologies from a marxist view take on a material reality, racism is no different.


o

Timothy Whitt That is why it is so important for us to also see people like Sobukwe, malcom x, Steve Biko, lumumba, nkrumah as part and parcel of African working class history.







Blaq Rage on Marxism

Documents

Transcript of Blaq Rage on Marxism