BGM Jackson Interview

7/30/2019 BGM Jackson Interview

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INTERVIEW:Anthony JAckson

MichaelWeintrob


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sought-after signature bass, complete with

the now familiar single-cutaway design,as Vinnie explained: I cant think of anyearlier instance of it. It was a response to arequest from Anthony Jackson for a bettercontrabass. Id built him several up to thatpoint, and each time I gave him one it wasbetter than the previous one and he washappy with it. But being the restless geniusthat he is, hes pushing me constantly totry and do better. What else can we do?Better material? Better hardware? Whatcan you do? So that gave me the push tothink harder and try and improve what Ihad already done. And the single-cutaway

concept came about the basic idea ofconnecting more of the body to the neck,thereby stiening the neck and havinga more immediate connection so that

vibrations could pass more freely betweenthe body and the bass, and get the wholething resonating better.

Speaking of better resonances, if theresone thing that immediately alerts you tothe fact that Anthony Jackson is playing ona record, its his tone: a vast, wiry, ringing,bell-like sound that has the power to shiftany element of the music that surroundsit. Yet in spite of his illustrious sidemancareer and the huge respect in which hesheld within the music world (and not

just by bassists) earning him a LifetimeAchievement Award at the 2004 BassPlayer Live! Jackson has never released asolo album. Until now. But the results are

N

o compromise two words that

have often been brushed aside inthe music industry in the ruthlesspursuit of fame and fortune. But for

bass icon Anthony Jackson theyve been thecornerstone of his 40-year career. Living byand adhering to his own exceptionally highartistic standards has put him in the upperechelons of the greatest musical innovatorsand performers, always digging deep intohis musical reserves for each and everyproject or concert hes been a part of. Hiswell-documented sonic breakthrough came

via his picked bassline on Te OJays 1973hit For Te Love Of Money, his wah-wahed

Fender bass, with producer Leon Husaddition of a phaser eect, becoming oneof the classic b-lines in bass guitar history.As a rst-call session musician, Jackson hasplayed on over 500 recordings since then,including many classic albums by ChakaKhan, Steely Dan, Paul Simon, RobertaFlack and numerous luminaries from the

jazz world, including Chick Corea, Al DiMeola, Pat Metheny, Michel Camilo, MichelPetrucciani, Steve Gadd, Steve Khan, MikeStern and Wayne Krantz. Hes also been atthe forefront of the evolution of the bassguitar with the invention of the 6-stringbass, thanks to his completely valid assertionthat the bass guitar is a member of theguitar family and not, as Leo Fender saw it,an electric version of a double bass. It washis convictions that inspired master bassluthier Vinnie Fodera to create his much

typically surprising and challenging as only

Jackson could make them. Hence Interspiritis not a self-indulgent bass-centred albumfull of ashy solos and imsy melodies;instead, its an intense masterwork andcollaboration with one of todays unsungbass heroes, Greek virtuoso bassist/composer Yiorgos Fakanas. Recalling jazzfusions 1970s heyday, its a superchargedset of endishly intricate compositions,sweeping through a panoramic palette ofstyles that takes in burning funk, modal

jazz, classical interludes, cinematic themes,Latin jazz and rock. In essence,Interspiritisa summation of the many styles and musical

eras that Jackson has worked in. At theheart of this remarkable music is the equallyremarkable partnership between Jacksonand Fakanas, who share all the writtenbasslines, often double-tracking parts tothicken the grooves and harmonic layers,while Jackson provides improvised basslines playing almost exclusively with a plectrumthroughout and Fakanas tackles all of theve solos with virtuosic aplomb. Tis lack ofJackson solos may surprise many of his fans,but this project was more than just a chanceto prove he remains one of the very nestbassists on the planet for Jackson it was allabout the music. Joined by a stellar band offusion guitarist Frank Gambale, keyboardistMitch Forman (of Mahavishnu Orchestrafame) and drum master Dave Weckl, plussome of Greeces best classical string andhorn section players, this is a modern jazz

The genius of

AnThony

JAckson


Bass Guitar Magazine 21

An iconic figure in the bass world, Anthony Jacksons reputation as an A-list

sideman is founded on four decades of exceptional bass work. Now, after years of

waiting, he releases his debut solo album, but as Mike Flynn discovers, the bass

legend took an unexpected route to produce something very special indeed.


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22 Bass Guitar Magazine

suite of the highest order.So after literally decades of anticipation

after several unsuccessful attempts Jacksons rst solo album arrives, but howdoes this musical perfectionist feel aboutthis state of aairs? Is he pleased with it?Speaking over the phone from his home in

New York he sounds almost reluctant toadmit it met his high standards: Yes,I am happy with it I dont know what tosay beyond that because its my rst [soloalbum]. Yiorgos has done seven. It was quitean involved labour of love to get it done,because the two of us are on the other sideof the world from each other because hesin Athens and Im back here in New York. Itwas quite an enjoyable project.

Working so closely with another bassistseems a highly unconventional choice, butAthens-based Fakanas is also an acclaimed

lm and classical composer and arranger, aswell as a jazz club owner and striking soloartist. Not one to miss an opportunity either,Fakanas was quick to approach Jacksonwith a proposed collaboration, as Anthonyexplains: I met him in the Fall of 2007 at theend of a tour with Mike Stern, and Athenswas our last stop, and we performed in theclub that Yiorgos owns. So we got to talkingand he made this oer to do a record withthe two of us. It wasnt a record where hewould just produce me: it would be with thetwo of us, with him writing the material thats how the seed was planted and it grew

quickly after that. He wrote everything,arranged everything, produced everythingand wrote all but one song, and it wouldnthave happened if it wasnt for his suggestionin the rst place.

Super SidemanJackson has often collaborated withEuropean jazz musicians notably hiscelebrated trios with pianists Michel Camiloand the late, great Michel Petrucciani soworking closely with this leading Greekmusician was nothing new to him. In fact,

Jacksons world view has only ever beencoloured by one thing: Its strictly about themusic inevitably, where there is a musicalbond, nationalistic concerns fall away.I never set out to play with musicians fromcertain backgrounds; I hoped to play withthe best people that I could anywhere, soI always felt lucky to be travelling a lot andrunning into people and having a chanceto sit down and play with and interactwith people from all corners of the musicalworld, he says rmly. Its this sense of neverwanting to be categorised or dismissed asa one-dimensional player that has always

seen him pursue a huge variety of work. Heelaborates: I love all music I can possiblyhear. My rst interest in music was classicalmusic, from the time I was an infant almost,but as I got older I heard other things andI brought them in as well. So I guess the

important point is that where there was

music to be played I was always willing andanxious to hear what it was and embrace it.I have a pan-musical interest.

While we now live in a world whereproducers manipulate almost every organicperformance to create perfect yet sterile,homogenous-sounding music, Jackson andFakanass approach was that of a forensicmusical investigation into the possibilitiesof each section. He embarked on monthsof renewed study, practising his atpickingtechnique anew, and its this approach thathas dened his work over the last fourdecades not least his pioneering work

on Chaka KhansNaughtyand What ChaGonna Do For Me albums as he proudlyexplains: What was interesting was howthe music was tightly written melodically,but there was clearly an opportunity forme to do the things that I do while playing

what he had written also, and he knew that.

So the music features his compositionalapproach, which is widely varying throughnumerous styles, and was technically

very, very demanding. But that gives me achance to do what I do, which is to take verydemanding music, no matter how tightlyits written, and still bring something ofmyself to it. And with that, I spent monthsworking on just what I was going to do whileremaining faithful to what he had written.It took time for me to evolve many of thethings that I was going to play, playing manyof the things that he had written in my ownway. I did a lot of the work there; I went back

to Athens to actually begin recording, andspent a long time putting down initial tracksand then rening them section by section.Ten going back home and listening to themsome more before going back to rene themagain and then putting them down back

whAT wAs inTeresTing wAs how The musicwAs TighTly wriTTen melodicAlly, buT TherewAs cleArly An opporTuniTy for me To doThe Things ThAT i do.


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here in America on tape. Ten we ew thetapes back and forth using computer linksuntil we nally had everything done. But itwas a lot of research and it was a lot of studyand a lot of renement on both our parts.

Whether its the funk-driven openerInner Power or the Latinised grooves of

Caldera through to the slamming atpickednale of Parhelia, this attention to detailshines through, with every note placedperfectly, yet played with total convictionand undeniable passion. Its his combinationof razor-sharp note choices, scything toneand subtly inspirational musicianshipthat makesInterspirita must-hear for anyJackson fan. But for the great bassist this is

just how real, high-quality music has to bemade: Well, according to how I was raisedin music and as an artist, there would havebeen no other way. If someone had said,

You can put the parts down here, and welltake it from there, thank you very much!And well send you the nished product,that would have been unacceptable; it wasgoing to have to be a high-level, deeplycollaborative project, which indeed it was.And because of the need for both of us to

be involved, it took a long time and it took alot of eort. Of course, looking over it nowthere are many things that Id like to go backand do again. Ideas begin to ow after it isdone thats true of any project and theresnothing more you can do, as itll be nishedat some point. But its been an educationfor me in looking at how ideas do grow,and how they continue to grow. Given thechance as a recording player, as a sessionplayer, you have to learn how to thinkquickly, how to come up with eective ideasas quickly as you can especially where

someone is hoping that you will do morethan just play the music on the page. Here,where there is a lot more time to do that,

you really have to balance between gettingsomething in a reasonable time and saying,ake it easy! Maybe this whole thing shouldbe done again? Because now there are newideas and now there is an expectation ofhigh standards, so lets start over. A veryinecient and expensive way to make arecord, but if the people involved are seriousabout it and know what they are doing, thepotential for making a really ne project isthere.

Behind this uncompromising approachto both his perception of music and hisprofound understanding and virtuosiccommand of the 6-string bass guitar lieJacksons deeply held philosophical views.Tese go to the very heart of why any truemusician dedicates themselves to a lifelong

creative search, and helps sustain them evenin the toughest of times. Initially inspired byMotown legend James Jamerson, Jacksonremains one of the few bass icons who livedthrough the heyday of the studio session era,but for all the changes hes seen he remainstrue to his original goals: You are driven by

somethingthats deep enough inside andstrong enough you dont consciously thinkabout it that much, you just pursue it. Teimpulse to hold on to it, make it grow andbring it forth goes beyond the planningstage; its just there. And it tends to result, if

youre careful and if it is legitimate to beginwith, in a project that isnt thought throughtoo much and isnt calculated even whenso much time has been taken; you wind uplying in bed and dreaming about how thingssound, and the dream alone is seductiveenough to pull you along with it. And thats

what you need to keep something like thisfresh and alive, with so much detail that hasto be pulled out of it.

Groundbreaking G rooveIts always been one of Jacksons assertions

that a great bassist should be able to speakvolumes through their basslines and notechoices, rather than the tendency todayfor many new players who feel soloingis the only way to really show the worldwhat they can do: Well, Im in the unusualsituation in making a record in that Imone of the two co-leaders but I dont have

any solos, and that was a challenge to becertain that what I was doing was strongenough to stand on its own without a solo,but thats what I have done in the decadesthat I have been a performing artist. I usedto solo a lot more than I do now, but itsnever been a concept where I say, OK,

youve heard me play all night but now mysolo time is here! Now Im really going toshow you something! My feeling is, Ivebeen playing all night, havent you heardsomething? Or, this has been a feature inthe sense that I have a chance to show, if you

willmake magic if I can be so bold as tosay that while still being an accompanistor a more traditional concert artist wheresomebody is out front playing all night butthey are playing something that was writtenby somebody else; despite that, its still theirstatement. Even if they play every note onthe page it was done in a way that nobodyelse could do it. And their individuality issort of in the back door: Well, Anthonysnot taking solos No, but it is there, it is astatement. Tats one of the things that tooktime to decide just how I was going to stepout that way using the atpick, which I

have always done but not with this muchintensity since the days of Al Di Meolaand the nine or so albums I did with him.So that alone opened up a whole world ofpossibilities for how to interpret Yiorgossmusic in a way that was my own, while

Session ace and

Anthony Jackson

superfan Dave

Swift has been along-time

admirer of

Anthony

Jacksons deeply

philosophical

approach to

music and

his incredible

versatility hes

even had one

of Jacksons signature Presentation Fodera

basses made for him, set up and signed o

by the man himself. Here he explains why

Jackson is the ultimate low-end master: He is

such an incredible and unique musician, andas far as Im concerned, a true genius, virtuoso

and innovator on his chosen instrument. His

sound alone, particularly when he plays with

a pick and through a anger/phaser, never

ceases to enthral and excite me. Ive been

fortunate enough to have met Anthony on

several occasions, including during a visit to

the Fodera workshop, and just from observing

him and talking with him, I dont think Ive evermet anyone that has the same level of intensity

and dedication to his art as he does. When I

was at school I was a fairly mediocre student,

with little or no interest in academia, but from

my early exposure to Anthony Jackson, be it

on recordings, lm or in interviews, I became

obsessed with studying and self-improvement.

Thanks to him I will always be the eternal

student, compelled to learn and evolve and to

rene and enhance my skills as a professional

musician. Anthony has raised the bar so

incredibly high, and has continually strived to,

among many other things, elevate the status

of the bass guitar to the highest level, and to

command all the respect the instrument andits players deserve. For this alone, on behalf of

myself and the readers of this magazine, Id like

to say; Thank you, Anthony, you truly are one of

a kind, and a continual inspiration to us all.

Dave Swift -Why Anthony Is stIll the MAn

S

venArnstein


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24 Bass Guitar Magazine

still making it and treating it like it was hismusic.

Te very denition of Jacksons low-endartistry in recent times though sadly itsended now was a very special trio with

jazz-rock guitar guru Wayne Krantz andSteely Dan drummer Keith Carlock. Tis

incredible trio built up an extraordinaryreputation that drew fans from all overthe world to an unassuming basementmusic bar in New York, best known as thelegendary 55 Bar. I was lucky enough tosee the trio in full ight back in 2007, andAnthony is justiably proud of those veryspecial, highly exploratory yet explosive triogigs, as he explains with real excitement:Tat was one of the most special gigs Ivedone. I played with Wayne on his rst album back in 1992, I think. Tat was where Irst met the drummer Dennis Chambers,

and theyve both become very good friends.I think there was a time when some of mybest playing was with Wayne Krantz onthat gig. Tat opened me up quite a bit;

youre never too old or too experienced ortoo ambitious to run up against somethingthat reignites the furnace and brings it up topressure. And thats what that gig was soIm glad you got to hear that. I hope it wasone of the very best nights; they were always

very good and usually spectacular, but Ihope you got to hear one of the very goodones.

On these intense trio sets, great swathes

of completely improvised music, thateortlessly switched from reggae tofunk interstellar guitar workouts backedby Carlock and Jacksons astonishingrhythmic onslaught, were unleashed afterKrantz would simply oer the smallest ofinstructions, as Anthony recalls with a wrychuckle: Yes, thats Waynes modus operandi that is often the way In fact, thatsthe grand art of the way that he managesthings live: well play the heads of a piece,and then therell be a pause, and hell turnaround and hell name a key or hell count

a tempo and name a key, like hell say, Fsharp, right here, two, three and wed justfall into it. It was always a gas playing withKeith; thats the only time I got to work withhim, with Wayne. Tose were all fabulous,superspecial gigs. I miss doing those. Waynehas gone on. Hed been playing at the 55 Barfor ten years, and by the time we got to playthere he was looking for a bigger concert,somewhere with a bigger stage and a moreformal sound system. People came from allover the world to the 55, to hear us. Terereally isnt another place where you couldgo in and be that comfortable, and where

you could count on having a very, very full,enthusiastic and knowledgeable crowd nosucker club, no place where you go just tohave a couple of beers, but a place where

you are there to hear the music, you and alot of other people.

Bassic MotivationAs we reach a new crossroads in the waymusic is consumed in the 21st century,with declining CD sales, increasing digitalsales and ubiquitous illegal downloading,musicians face a time both of increasedindependence and opportunity, alongside

decreasing wages and certainty abouttheir future. For an artist so intimatelylinked to a golden age of recording, andthe global renown that brought him,Jackson has also been aected by the musicindustrys current woes. Yet he remainsstoically sanguine about it all: Well, Im abit of a purist. Te people that I grew uplistening to, the great composers and greatperformers, the people that I played withfor as long as I have been a performer,have agreed with this point of view. First

you have the music, then you worry about

playing it in a certain place, in a certainway, and lets say trying to make a living,which, of course, I knew nothing about inthe beginning none of us do. It really hasno eect on inspiration or commitment to

making good music, just as when you startplaying we are children for the most part,or often, very, very young children ourthoughts are strictly with how it makesus feel to play and to listen. Tere are nothoughts about where are we going to dothis? How am I going to manage for the

next couple of months, Ive got these billsTats not a part of it, and that, of course, isone of the things we use when were older toassess how gifted children will do in music.If they cant live without playing, then thereslikely to be a real lifelong commitmentthere. If you start playing music with an eyetowards making a living Well, Im goingto start my lessons, and Im going to buy aninstrument, but I just need to think moreand more, just what am I going to do withthis and how am I going to t this in withmy job? My real job that follows you

throughout your life. If you have that kind ofearly-life motivation it never leaves; despiteall the need later to think about how youare going to live by doing this, your basicmotivation never disappears, your heart still

you Are driven by someThing...ThATs deepenough inside And sTrong enough youdonT consciously Think AbouT iT ThAT much,you JusT pursue iT.


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races when you hear glorious music, liveor on recordings. Your anticipation alwaysgrows and becomes white-hot and shinyand gleaming when you are about to play;it never goes away and it never diminishesno matter how discouraged you might getabout the professional side of it. So my

motivation and my interest is unchanged,and theres nothing unusual about that Im not discouraged in the least; I will dowhat it is I do until Im either physicallyincapable of doing any more or I simplydont wake up the next morning. Tat isa common feel, a common motivation, acommon characteristic of motivation, andits something we dont even talk about. Ofcourse we are going to play! No matter howbad the gig, how unsatisfactory it mightgo as you know, sometimes its not alwaysglorious music making: sometimes the

people you are with are less than motivated,sometimes the songs you are playing areless than inspired, but that has no eecton the realisation that youre now going tosit down and pick up your instrument andmake music, like youve done, in my case,the last 45 years. Tats always the specialtime of day, the special time of life and thereason for being here. So the lousy state ofthe music business, the discouraging state ofthe music business, which is quite real, is stillcompletely separate from the state of musicitself.

Its in such straitened times as these of a

global recession that people increasinglyturn to art, lm, theatre and music to lifttheir spirits and remind them of the non-material things in life. But as he explains,tough times have always been a call toarms for musicians: In America we wouldcall this a situation that separates the menfrom the boys. Youre expected to go upthere and attempt to sprout wings and ywhen you play its always been like that.Again, it isnt something that is discussedever. You talk about how disappointingthe music business is, certainly the music

scene, with, I suppose since the early tomid 1980s the proliferation of machines,computer-controlled machines that haveended the recording business in terms ofpopular music. Its just gone; there are nosessions to speak of as far as comparing itto how it was prior to the mid 80s. Mostof the major studios have closed a wholeway of life, trying to make good recordsunder the restrictions but at the same timelooking at the clock and doing it as quicklyand eciently as possible, all that hasdisappeared. But for us as players you lookback and just reect how quickly a way of

life ended, totally, goneand it continues toworsen.

At the heart of this cultural malaise is anow ubiquitous piece of studio technology:Now the main phenomenon I see is theAuto-une, the computerised box that

YiorgoS fakanaS

the MAn BehInd the MusIc

For Greek bass virtuoso, composer and educator,

Yiorgos Fakanas, this was the opportunity to

work with not just one of the greatest bassists

of all time, but one of his biggest inuences,as he explains here: I had been listening to

Anthony since I was a kid and he was one of my

bass heroes, him and Jaco. I was inuenced by

the main bass players him, Jaco and Stanley

Clarke taking dierent things from each of

them, but Anthony was the groover for me. He

was the man with the best groove for me and

he has that special avour when he grooves and

when hes comping behind a solo. I met Anthony

when he came to Athens to play with Mike Stern

and Dennis Chambers and I gave him two of

my albums Domino, and then he listened to

Echoes, which is based on Greek folk music which

I took and transformed into fusion music, with

jazz harmonies added to the Greek rhythms andsome of the melodies. That was also an album

with both a jazz ensemble and a string ensemble

and he liked it very much. He then sent me a text

message saying how impressed he was when

he listened to it, and that made me make this

proposition and ask him: OK, would you like

make something together? And he answered

immediately, Yes! So, the rst thing I wanted

to do with this album was to make music that

was a combination of my music and the things

that I was hearing from him that featured the

same colours and avours that Ive heard from

him since listening to him from when I was a kid

until now. Thats why we have a string ensemble

on three tunes, because he liked the writing on

my albums, and because of his love of classicalmusic. But there are also tunes that feature

the kind of grooves youd have heard on other

albums with him on. I wrote him a lot of melodies

that he plays with a pick, that he said he found

very challenging, and hes not soloing because

he prefers to do rhythm stu, but we play a lot

of the melodies together in harmony. Its also

testimony to the very high quality of Fakanass

work that Jackson was so keen to collaborate

with him, as he humbly explained: I was really

surprised at the way he described his admiration

for my music; that was a very big honour forme to hear that from one of my heroes. Plus

the fact that, before me, he has refused several

propositions from some very big producers and

composers to make music for him, and it was

a big surprise for me that he accepted to work

with me just like that! Weve done ten concerts

together, which were not only fun but a great

honour to play with him, and aside from doing a

clinic with Victor Wooten, this was the rst time

I was playing with such a big-name bass player,

playing the same instrument on the same stage.

That was a big responsibility becausewell, its

Anthony Jackson.

brings things that are out of pitch on pitch.You seldom hear singers anymore whoare making records without it, and for meI can hear it when its working. Its verysophisticated technology but I can hearit when its used it ruins the timbre of a

human voice and its a constant reminderthat a branch of the industry is makingmusic in which people who really dont haveany talent at all are able to make somethingthat can be passed as great music by thepublic. Its almost impossible to hear a singernowadays who isnt using Auto-une. AndI was extremely angry for years behindit. Now I shake my head and I just think,well, you know, this is the period we livein, this is what has happened to culture it has come down to quickly produced,quickly packaged, and here you are, this isit. You see people now who are entering

the music business without even a seriousattempt to be serious and talented, peoplewho wouldnt have done more than makecoee in the reception area who are nowfeatured performers. Its still something I get

very angry about but Ive had to accept it,

and all you can do in situations like that ismaintain your own stu. Its what you willdo anyway, but try to do it with some senseof accommodation. You cant walk into asituation pissed o, saying, If I hearAuto-une Im going to You cant do that.

So in all areas we are adapting, and theres somuch thats changing and being lost, and itsso dicult to earn a living as a performingartist that you really dont have a lot of timeto cry about it. You get your ass up and yougo out there and you play like you alwaysdid. You know that the stakes are higher now there are fewer places to play, it paysless, there are so many more considerationsof just staying alive. Just remain thankful thatthere is a place for you to function in thisbusiness of music today, as bad as it is, andonce that decision has been made, all the oldmotivation, all the old ambitions and all the

old standards still apply.Interspiritis available now from

www.abstractlogix.com

BGM Jackson Interview

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