Ben greenfield Podcast 50

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Listen to this podcast http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2009/07/brain/

Transcript of Ben greenfield Podcast 50

  • Podcast #50 from http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2009/07/brain/ Introduction: In this podcast episode: how to get smarter, the top 10 questions about fat loss, nutrition and human performance; information about the HCG diet for fat loss, how to shock your diet off a weight loss plateau, the link between magnesium deficiency and heart attacks in athletes and Listener Q and A on cafeeine , blood sugar levels during exercise, weight lifting for tritahletes, liquid vegetables and much much more. Ben: Wow, as you may have guessed from the introduction there is a ton to cover in todays podcast. This is in my opinion going to be one of our best podcasts ever and one of the reasons for that is this is the 50th episode and we didnt have a podcast last week. So Ive got to double up on the content. Before I get to anything, you know I know that some of you out there have had some trouble figuring out how to subscribe to the podcast or maybe didnt even know that you could subscribe to the podcast on something like iTunes and then some of you also didnt know that you could subscribe to the blog and you can literally get automatic emails whenever anything comes out. I just put the finishing touches on an update on the page that tells you how to subscribe, so if you go to www.bengreenfieldfitness.com, theres a really apparent link in the upper right hand corner that says how to subscribe. If you click on that or you know someone whos trying to subscribe and doesnt know how and they click on that its literally just like a 1, 2, 3 easy as pie way to make sure that you automatically get the free audio episodes and dont miss out on any of the content. So as I mentioned in the introduction to todays interview jam- packed weve got a featured topic which is an interview with Dr. Arlene Taylor. Shes one of the worlds leading brain experts. Brand spanking new Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research just hit the shelves. Im going to be bringing you the most relevant research from that. We have Listener Q and As on caffeine, liquid vegetables, blood sugar and weightlifting for triathletes and I do have some special announcements coming up as well and actually after I record
  • this podcast, I am throwing my podcasting equipment into a backpack over my shoulder and biking down to the local Farmers Market where a couple of weeks ago I came across a Native American fellow who was selling a topical ointment thats been passed down through his family for managing muscle inflammatory conditions and so Im going to find out exactly what hes putting in that stuff. So look for that next week along with a lot of other cutting edge next week including some information about water. Lets go ahead and move into this weeks content. Ben: This weeks Listener Q and A presents some pretty interesting questions from listeners and I want to start off with a question from Listener Andrew. Andrew asks: I was hoping you could clear up some confusion I have about caffeine. Currently I avoid caffeine at all costs. I consume no caffeine whatsoever. My question is if caffeine can be part of a good nutrition plan, would it be ok to have a cup of coffee each day? Or perhaps to begin drinking green tea? What is your opinion on the FRS energy products and the caffeine they contain? Ive heard glowing reviews of that product line even from Lance Armstrong himself. (Ooh la la, the Tour de France champion has endorsed it so it must be good.) Ben answers: We actually covered FRS energy drinks quite a bit. I dont want to completely blow off your question Andrew, but Ive covered those drinks twice in the podcast so far. So Im going to put a link after your question in the Shownotes but the synopsis when we covered is that the thing that makes FRS energy drinks unique is the component in them called quercetin and quercetin is actually an immune system booster you find in things like red onions and apples and it has been shown in research to help with immune system support, or the time that someone actually had a cold or the flu. But, the other things that are in the FRS energy drinks aside from of course the caffeine were a little bit suspect. Some artificial colorings, some artificial sweeteners that are suspect in terms of their health and of course the large amounts of sugar and typically the small amount of phosphoric acid and things of that nature that needs to be placed in a soda or energy drink. Caffeine in general is in my
  • opinion a great tool in your fat tool box, in your energy tool box. The problem is you cant overuse it. I personally do an 8 to 12 oz cup of coffee in the morning and occasionally in the afternoon if I have a very busy day or very hectic day I will do an energy drink thats the equivalent of about one quarter cup of caffeine and its a green tea based energy drink. I use one called Delta-E. It happens to be the same one that Dr. Arlene Taylor also uses. Shes the lady that I interviewed today. But thats one that I use. Caffeine is something thats beneficial. If you build up a tolerance to it, its not that beneficial and you could actually do a little bit of damage to your liver and your kidney if youre one of those people thats consuming three 30 oz cups of coffee during the day. But a little bit of coffee to give you a jumpstart is great. It has whats called a glycogen sparing effect, meaning that it helps you to burn less carbohydrate, a little more fat. It helps with your focus, it helps with your energy levels. It helps stimulate your central nervous system which is a good thing in a lot of cases, especially for those of us who need a little jumpstart to our day. So absolutely I do condone the use of coffee on a limited basis. As an athlete I do abstain from coffee for at least 7 days prior to competition and then I take it on the morning of the competition. So you can use it as whats called an ergogenic aid as well. For more information specifically on what my opinion is on the FRS energy products that Im not super convinced Lance actually uses write into me if youve seen him drink it. All Ive seen is him endorsing it but I didnt see him suck one of those down before the individual or team trials in the Tour de France this week yet. So, listen in to my previous podcast about that Andrew. Great question. Amy asks: Id like to see if you can clarify some information Ive been hearing. Set me straight in other words. Ive heard if your blood sugar is between 70 and 90 before you exercise, you will burn more fat. That is apparently the optimal level for burning the most fat. Can you confirm whether what Im hearing is true or false? Also Im told that you are supposed to drink your blood sugar level 20 minutes before exercise. Ben answers: Amy, I dont know if youre diabetic and thats why someone was talking to you about this, but for those of us who are not
  • diabetic, checking our blood sugar levels, monitoring our blood sugar levels before and during exercise is really not necessary. Granted you could get it to an ideal level, but in most cases our body, if it is insulin sensitive and if it does operate directly which it does not if you have diabetes type 1 or type 2 then your blood sugar levels as long as youre eating a healthy diet are going to be right where they need to be. However, I want to answer your question a little more specifically. You say that youve heard that blood sugar levels are supposed to be 70 and 90 before you exercise if you want to burn more fat. Well yeah, 70 and 90 its called milligrams per deciliter in terms of your actual concentration, but 70 to 90 is low. Ok? You are going to tap into your bodys fat reserves because you dont really have much carbohydrate circulating around to burn. Look at it this way, when diabetics have a blood sugar thats lower than 100 thats too low for them to exercise safely. They risk passing out or having even bigger problems if their blood sugar is lower than 100. So if your blood sugar is 70 to 90 and you go exercise, you probably arent going to have much energy at all. Yeah youre going to burn fat but I mentioned a few times the research that shows that people who consume a carbohydrate based meal at the 30, 60 and 90 minute mark during exercise end up having a higher exercise post- metabolic rate and they end up burning more calories overall during the exercise session than if they exercise starved. So it returns to the point that I drive home over and over again to my clients and on the show. The one time that you do want to take care of your body and the one time you dont want to be at a caloric deficit is when youre exercising because if you take care of your body from a fueling standpoint while youre exercising, you will actually in the long run burn more calories and burn more fat. So as far as blood sugar levels 20 minutes prior to exercise that you mentioned, not really necessary unless you are diabetic. And if you are diabetic you want those numbers to be about 100 to 250. Definitely not 70 to 90. So thats really low. Wayne asks: Im shooting to go 9:40 or lower at Arizona. (Ok, lets set this up. Hes an Ironman triathlete. When he says 9:40, he means he wants to do Arizona Ironman triathlon at 9 hours and 40
  • minutes.) And Im going to be doing some intense training for it. My question is should I hit the gym again during the summer for strength training, etc.? I think the answer is yes. Im currently sitting right around race weight but lifting weights tends to make me put the weight back on. Ben answers: Now when I am writing up strength training plans for the Ironman triathletes who I coach online, the way that I do it is we do quite a bit of foundation building. We do quite a bit of hip strengthening, core strengthening, rotator cuff strengthening and spend up to 3 hours a week in the weight room during the offseason and during whats called the base season. However, once we get around to race season, time is precious. Unless youre a professional triathlete who has a lot of time to train, time is precious and those 3 hours that youre spending on the gym are 3 hours that you could spend swimming, biking or running. So what I do is I use a technique. Ive got about 12 different workouts that I draw on and for anywhere from 2 to 3 times a week, we do shorter exercise circuits of 20 to 40 minutes that are short, that are high intensity but that allow the athletes to maintain the benefits of the foundation phase that we laid in the offseason. I actually have all those workouts put together. Thats what my book The Top 12 Resistance Training Routines for Triathletes thats what that book is actually all about. Its just those workouts that we use during the race season as in boom, hit the gym, get the 20 minutes in, the 30 minutes in and then boom, leave and go back to your life. Go back to your training. So for example, on a typical bike day in the offseason Ill ride my bike for 45 minutes and then Ill be at the gym for an hour or 2 and a half hours, 15 minutes by the time I get out of there. And that just about flips during race season. During a race season on a typical bike day, Ill bike an hour and 15 minutes and Ill be at the gym for maybe 20, 30 minutes. So, it really does flip. It really does change in the race season. The other thing I design those workouts to do is not put on mass, not put on muscle. Just to maintain the amount of muscle that you do have. And then our final question was a call in question from Listener Sue. Sue asks: Working 14 hours day right now, I dont have any time to eat vegetables. Is there any creative way or good way that I can
  • get vegetable nutrients aside from putting a salad in a blender and drinking it on my way to work? I look forward to hearing back from you, thanks a lot. Bye bye. Ben answers: Sue, yeah. There is. But if youre listening to the show or for anybody listening to the show, I dont want you to use what Im about to tell you as an excuse not to eat vegetables. All Im going to give you is some information about a way that you could get in the equivalent of a few salads in a blender on your way out the door to work. But I really want you to focus on eating raw vegetables and raw fruit sources as well because the interaction of all those components in their whole raw form is going to be a lot better utilized by your body than a supplement. But if you do want to drink your vegetables, there are many types of supplements out there that are basically green powder the one that I personally take is called EnerPrime. Ill put a link to it in the Shownotes but its everything from spirulina to green barley grass. Its got a vegetarian enzyme complex in there. Its got rice maltodextrin, shitake mushroom extract, beta carotene, the full spectrum of multivitamins and it really is what you can get if you were to grind up a few salads in a blender and then some. Its got about 32 different nutrients in it and what I do when Im in a rush is I take a teaspoon or a tablespoon of that and I use it in a powder and I just mix it in a glass of water. Sometimes Ill pour a little bit of OJ in to sweeten it up but you drink that down, and thatd be one way to do it. The same company that makes this stuff the EnerPrime they also make a capsule form. If you dont like to take it in powder. So thatd be one way you can do this, Sue. But I really encourage you if youre doing that, when you finish your 14 hour day, still try and get a big salad in. Still try and get some real food in if you can and bring some stuff to work too. Bring some mini carrots, throw some sugar snap peas, some broccoli, some cauliflower in a zip lock, bring that along. You can put a little bit of sea salt on it or put a little bit of apple cider vinegar mixed with stevia on it if you want to sweeten it up a little bit, but ultimately there is a way that you can get your vegetables in. Just dont use it as an excuse not to eat your vegetables. So Ill put a link to that stuff in the Shownotes. And remember, if you have a question, not only
  • am I giving away a free copy of my 100 Ways To Boost Your Metabolism DVD to the best question this week but you might also get your question on some of those new videos that Im making to answer questions. So email me [email protected] or call the show toll free 8772099439. And were going to go ahead and move on to this weeks research from the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. Ben: Ok so one of the deals is that as a certified personal trainer, that means that I have to be a member of the organization that certifies me and what I happen to be a member of is one of the most respected certifying agencies on the planet. Its called the National Strength and Conditioning Association, and they put out a peer review journal called the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research and every month I receive this, I dig through it and I find the stuff thats most applicable to the clients that I work with. So while you may not care about the swing velocity of a reverse jujitsu double jump kick when somebody has taken in half a gallon of caffeine and creatine pills, what you may care about are some of the more down to earth practical tips that you can glean from this journal. So what Im going to try and do is filter for you and give it to you in a format thats easily understandable. Because your ears would go buggy if you read some of the descriptions in the research and you got to be able to dig through it and find the actual applicable advice. So the first study that I want to look at and I literally just have the journal sitting in here on my desk that Im looking through. I know theres a lot of triathletes that listen to the show. This study is called The Influence of Different Breathing Frequencies on the Severity of Inspiratory Muscle Fatigue Used By High Intensity Front Crawl Swimming. And what this study looked at was the difference in the amount of fatigue during a 200 meter freestyle swim, when people drink every second stroke thats stroke, stroke, breathe with people who breathe every fourth stroke. So they werent looking at arm fatigue or leg fatigue or anything like that. They were looking at the actual inspiratory muscle fatigue and they were doing that by looking at the amount of tidal volume or air volume that people move in and out of their
  • lungs the lower tidal volume after this 200 meter indicated a greater amount of inspiratory muscle fatigue. Well what they found was there was a significantly greater amount of inspiratory muscle fatigue after the breathing every four strokes when compared to the breathing every two strokes and so the takeaway message from this is your lungs can get tired and you should think about training your lungs the same way you would train your arms and your legs and the whole idea is that when your lungs have to breathe off all this Co2 thats being generated from your muscle activity, they will get tired. And so not only do we know now that the inspiratory muscles are proven to be susceptible to fatigue somebodys like Duh, I can tell that I breathe hard or I have a harder time getting oxygen when I dont breathe as much when Im swimming. But the second takeaway we can take away from this is that if you train your lungs one thing Ive been doing since I read this article is whenever I finish a swim workout, I throw in ten 25 meter repeats of whats called hypoxic swimming where all I do is swim from one end of the pool to the other end and my goal is to not take a breath the whole time. I rest 20 seconds and then I do it again and I do it again. And I do that 10 times back and forth. My arms dont get tired, my legs dont get tired when Im swimming fast but my lung muscles, they get tired. And Im noticing a difference in that type of training. So thats what we can take away from that research study if you dont want to get as tired, breathe more often and think about actually training your inspiratory muscles. The next study that I looked at theres about five of them in here was the Effect of an Acute Bout of Plyometric Exercise on Neuromuscular Fatigue and Recovery in Recreational Athletes and this study looked at plyometric exercise which is kind of an explosive, jumping, maximal twitch type of exercise. Itd be like jumping on and off a box, doing lunge jumps, doing clap pushups, that type of thing. And what they found was that high volume plyometric training actually resulted in a pretty significant impairment of force after the workout. They noticed that the impairment remained for about 2 days after that workout. But the whole idea is that if jumping and bouncing and doing that type of motion causes
  • the type of whats called eccentric loading of the muscle that causes that muscle damage well you might want to avoid that type of activity prior to any lets say 5k, 10k, triathlon competition, sporting event, thats going to require for your muscles to be at their peak amount of efficiency or their peak performance. And so what I would recommend that you do, and I mentioned this once before on the show I know theres a lot of triathlons out there listening in. If you are tapering for a triathlon and youve got that last week leading up to your triathlon, prioritize the non-plyometric type of activities. Meaning youre going to do a lot more swimming and youre going to do a lot more cycling because you put your run of training and youre not going to lose your fitness on the run if youre not running much that week. But being that plyometric exercise can leave your muscles unable to produce their peak force and youre going to want that wattage, youre going to want that force when youre out training. So avoid plyometric motions, especially in excess during a week when youre going to need your muscles. So the next study was really interesting. It was The Effect of Sprint and Interval Training in Body Weight Reduction On Power to Weight Ratio in Experienced Cyclists. Once again, Im catering to you endurance athletes, to you cyclists who are out there listening in and the purpose of this study was to see what had the greatest effect on the power to weight ratio: doing interval training, which was some really high intensity sprints separated by a good amount of rest and then basically they were doing that kind of sprint training sessions two times a week for about 10 weeks. And they compared that group to a group that didnt do any of the interval training but they intentionally reduced their body weight. They went on a diet. They didnt fast but they went on a diet. And they lost a bunch of body fat. And then they had a third group and the third group performed both these interval training sessions and they also purposefully reduced their caloric intake and lost weight at the same time. Now the actual workout the actual interval based workout that these people were doing was 5 minutes of warm-up and then they did four to five 5 seconds super all-out maximum sprints with about 30 to 45 seconds of rest after each and then they
  • did another 5 minutes of aerobic exercise and then they did an all out effort as hard as possible for 30 seconds, at their highest possible cadence. So this was just a bunch of real short 5 second to 30 second intervals. So, what did they find from this test? Well remember theyre looking at power to weight ratio, which is a good thing. Youve got a good power to weight ratio, youre going to climb a hill a lot faster, youre going to go a lot faster on your bike and youre going to do a lot better if youre out there racing. What they found was that the people who did the intervals for 10 weeks, they had a really significant improvement in their power to weight ratio. It got better. The people that were doing the dieting, that were purposefully restricting their diet guess what? Their power to weight ratio also improved and got better. But heres the kicker. The people who did the intervals and combined the intervals with weight loss, their power to weight ratio actually decreased. They actually lost their power as a cyclist when they tried to combine dieting with intense aerobic exercise. So what this comes down to is that what probably happened was during the prolonged 10 week caloric restriction period, they actually didnt retain enough protein or their dieting didnt retain enough protein to repair their muscles and they broke their bodies down and lost power by combining diet with intense exercise. The takeaway message for you is that if you are a competitive endurance athlete or youre a competitive athlete in general, try not to be losing weight and going after performance at the same time. Try not to get to that point where your sprint triathlon that youre doing is 2 weeks away and you think oh gosh I got to lose 5 lbs. Youd better have lost that 5 lbs a long time ago when you dont have to do the intense exercise. So what it comes down to is you take care of your body when youre in the offseason or base season or during the times when youre not having to compete hard so when it comes time to compete hard, you dont have to go on a diet and do your hard training at the same time. Because what this study found is that that actually hurts you a lot more than it helps you. So the next study looked at The Effect of Sugar Free Red Bull Energy Drink on High Intensity Runs Timed to Exhaustion
  • in Young Adults. Red Bull gives you wings right? And so I guess what they were looking at was whether or not it really does give you wings. So they had a bunch of young adults do a run timed to exhaustion test at 80% of VO2 max. They did one run timed to exhaustion test one week and then the next week they did another one and they compared sugar free Red Bull with a sugar free placebo, which was basically lemon lime, tonic water and lime juice. And what they found was that the sugar free Red Bull did not influence that run timed to exhaustion. So both groups averaged about 12 minutes at 80% VO2 max before they hit the wall. And the group that took that Red Bull didnt go any farther than the other group. Now I just have my own little twist on this study because I suspect that caffeine is an ergogenic aid. There have been multiple studies, multiple meta studies which were studies of studies that have found that caffeine really helps with exercise in almost any situation from explosive exercise to endurance exercise. However, Red Bull has a lot more in it than caffeine. It has a lot more bad stuff in it than caffeine. Artificial sweeteners for example, we talked about this with the FRS energy drinks earlier in the show. Its possible that if these kids had just taken caffeine and not taken a Red Bull, they may have improved their run time to exhaustion. But when youre sucking down a lot of crap in addition to your caffeine, I wouldnt expect you to get any faster. So thats just my twist on the study dont use this as an excuse not to use caffeine or not to use energy drinks, they have their place. But make sure you use healthy ones that dont have artificial sweeteners and dont have a lot of preservatives and phosphoric acids and other crap in them. Go after the healthy stuff that you can pronounce all the ingredients on. You know what youre getting. The next study, and this is the last one was a study entitled Carbohydrate Ingestion During Exercise Does Not Delay the Onset of Fatigue During Sub-Maximal Cycle Exercise. In this study, what they did was they compared people who ate during exercise about every 15 minutes to people who didnt eat during exercise and what they found was there was no change in the amount of time people were able to exercise it was about 90 minutes before they had that onset of fatigue
  • and they werent able to keep up their in this case their cycling wattage any longer. So, what this shows and this is something we already kind of knew as exercise professionals was that the body does have enough storage carbohydrate on it to where if youre going to go out and exercise 90 minutes and in this case they exercised 90 minutes at about 60 to 65% intensity, your body can handle it just fine. You dont have to be taking Gatorade, Trail Mix or oranges and apples, chocolate bars to the gym for a 90 minute workout. You dont have to do that. Youll last through the workout. Youll be able to maintain intensity assuming its not a super intense workout. However I dont recommend working out for longer than an hour without actually taking some type of exercise fuel because it does affect your post-exercise metabolic rate and it does have implications for your recovery. So yeah you can last, but you may not be in quite as good a shape and you might not actually recover the same way than if you had taken in a carbohydrate. The other thing I want you to think about this study is it was done at 65% VO2 max. Thats not very hard. If youre going to go out and snack hard for 90 seconds, youre definitely going to benefit from carbohydrate ingestion and those higher blood sugar levels. So, with every study that you see like this, take it with a grain of salt. A lot of this stuff annoys the heck out of me. A lot of this stuff ends up in the media and the media takes it and runs all sorts of different ways with it and leaves us with an inability to really interpret the information the way it should be interpreted. So if you have things that you have questions on studies that youve seen that media has been talking about that you have questions on feel free to email me and Ill talk about them on this show. Ill look into them and Ill dig through and find out how they actually did these studies. So, that is this months research from the Journal of Strength and Conditioning. I know this has been a pretty long wait but were going to go ahead and move on to this weeks featured topic with the worlds leading brain expert, Dr. Arlene Taylor. Hey podcast listeners, this is Ben Greenfield and on the other line today I have one of the worlds leading speakers on brain functions and I dont like to throw this word around too
  • much but shes sometimes referred to as the Brain Guru. Dr. Arlene Taylor is with us today and she specializes in brain function. In a sense really unleashing somebodys potential for their brain to thrive. So she does seminars, consulting, coaching, shes been on television and radio. She has multiple books on brain function, CDs, DVDs, Ive read a couple of her books. I actually have one sitting in front of me right now that I read on a plane that really impressed me. It really changed the way that I approach a lot of the things that I do in live. It was called Mind Waves and it was kind of an exploration of the way that we operate in terms of being auditory or visual or kinesthetic and I thought the book was just fantastic. It was really practical information. One of the things that I started thinking about after reading this book was gosh, we talk so much on this show about your biology and optimizing human performance and optimizing your health and your immune system but very rarely do we talk about your mental function, about your brain function and that is Dr. Taylors specialty and today were going to talk about practical ways that you can actually optimize your brain function and why you might want to think about doing so. So Dr. Taylor, thank you for coming on the show today. Dr. Arlene Taylor: Its my pleasure. Good morning. Ben: Tell me a little bit about your background in the brain. What got you started on this? Dr. Arlene Taylor: You know Ben, lots of people ask me that and its sometimes difficult since I was born in the late 1800s, you understand its sometimes a little difficult to go back and trigger memory for one or two particular incidents. What I can tell you is that for as long as I can remember Ive always been interested in the brain. It just seemed like such a mystery back when I was a child and of course that was long before we had any of the brain imaging modalities. But somewhere along in my life, I began to realize that the way I was living my life there ought to be an easier more effective way to do that. Everyday just seemed so difficult and I thought life does have its ups and downs but theres got to be a better way. And at that point, I was working on a Masters in epidemiology and health education and I was looking for a
  • couple of elective classes to take, and as I was looking at the board, there was one that said male, female brain differences and I remember some of the people, some of my classmates standing around laughing and going well duh? Who needs to take a class on male, female brain differences? We know the differences. And I thought hmm, I guess theyd wouldnt be offering a class if it was just about the obvious differences so I enrolled. Ben: Now was this before Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus? Dr. Arlene Taylor: That was before that, yes. Before John Grey came out with that book. So, I enrolled in the class and I swear Ben, it was the most exciting class I had ever taken because we were just starting to get some of the male female differences brain research and it so hand in glove went along with my interests and I just never looked back from there. In fact, I continually Im doing research myself on aspects of brain function at one of the health centers where I lecture but if I get a new piece of information I try to put it back up fairly quickly on one of my blogs or brain tips or somewhere on the website to stimulate other peoples interest in the brain because it is anything interesting. Ben: Now, this may seem like a stupid question but I would really like to hear your take on why somebody should be taking care of their brain. Now when I say taking care the reason I put it in that sense is kind of in the introduction, I mentioned that we talk a lot about taking care of your body, we talk about nutritional supplements on this show, we talk about exercise, we talk about fitness, we talk about eating healthy. But before we talk about how to make your brain healthy, why should somebody even care? Are there issues with the brain is there a health or non-health of the brain? Dr. Arlene Taylor: Well first of all, there are no stupid questions. I know you meant that tongue in cheek Ben, however all progress begins with a question, and sometimes the question may not sound terribly erudite but itll stimulate someone to think about things in a new way. Now, this is my brains opinion and this is all I have because every brain is unique and we only have
  • our own opinions. We can take the opinions of others and make it ours but thats all we have and once I understood that its been a long time since I had a foolish argument, the kind that we hear all the time like I told you that, No, you didnt, and we waste time and energy on foolish arguments. So having said that, all we are is our brain in essence. And while I am absolutely committed to maintaining the health of the body and supporting immune system function, if you have a strong body and a good immune system function but your brain has gone to pot, you cannot meaningfully even use your level of health and engage meaningfully in a life. And the last part to go is your brain. So for me, everything pretty much starts and ends in the brain and the reason that I want a healthy body is to help support brain function. And the reason I want a healthy brain is so that I can use my healthy body for as long as I possibly can for the full extent I possibly can which for me is aiming to be about 120. Ben: You mentioned you used the phrase When the brain goes to pot or allowing the brain to go to pot. Lets be a little bit more specific and what I want to know is how does someones brain go to pot? What happens when someones brain is unhealthy? On a physical level? Dr. Arlene Taylor: There are many factors that impact whether or not the brain is healthfully functional. And some of those, we can do something about and some of them, we cant. The current research suggests that more than half of the factors that impact the health and functionality of a persons brain are within our partial if not complete control. So those are the areas on which I want to concentrate. The kinds of factors, the kinds of behaviors that will help to keep my brain healthy. Now trauma sometimes, we cannot prevent trauma. That can affect the brain. There are times when we have inherited or familial tendencies that are not negative to the brain and sometimes we cant prevent those. Although there are studies that indicate, if you know what those are, sometimes you can do things to delay the onset. For example, if you know that diabetes runs in your family, being really proactive about taking care of your diabetes can in many cases help to reduce the impact to the brain. Then there are things like viruses
  • and bacteria and other infections, and you may be able to minimize those by living a high level wellness lifestyle. So you cant do everything. But you can do something and my brains opinion is you figure out what you can partially or completely control and thats where you put your time, money and energy. Ben: And what type of factors can we control when it comes to our brains? Dr. Arlene Taylor: Oh my goodness, there are so many of them. In fact one of my latest books is 21 Factors that you can control that have to do with age proofing your brain and that goes if I want to put it in a nutshell Ben, its living an absolutely high level wellness lifestyle to the best of your ability, meaning that youre taking responsibility for what you eat, for what you drink, for how much water you get on a daily basis, for exercise, for learning how to manage stress, for taking time to play, for getting enough sleep, for challenging your brain everyday for a minimum of 30 minutes and so on and so forth. Ben: Now when I am not doing these types of things, what happens to my brain? If Im eating in an unhealthy manner, if Im not exercising, if Im not engaging in things that socially stimulate my brain, what actually happens? Dr. Arlene Taylor: There can be any number of things that can happen. For example, there are no muscles in the brain per se. And the only way that we really clean out waste products from the brain and bring it micronutrition and oxygen and glucose and other things that the brain needs is through exercise. When we do physical exercise, especially aerobic it helps to increase the rate at which the blood flows through the brain and thats very good for it. Something as simple as brain breathing several times a day, getting more air into your lungs and more oxygen to your brain can be very, very helpful. Not stimulating your brain can lead to what we often refer to as a lazy brain. Meaning most people are aware that your brain is filled with neurons those specific cells that have an increased ability to talk to each other, to share information, how we think cognitively and by the way we
  • now know that your heart has a lot of neurons as well which is fascinating in that that gives some basis for the emerging body of knowledge on emotional intelligence. But if you dont, these neurons dont touch each other. Most people got that in high school or college biology, theres a space in them called the synapse or the synaptic gap and part of how well we think is related to the size of that gap. So when you are regularly, routinely stimulating your brain think of a neuron as your hand. Your palm represents the cell body, your thumb represents the axon that large protection for most neurons and then your fingers represent what we call dendrites that pull information into the cells. Well look at your hand and sort of form a loose fist. Take your other hand, form a loose fist and about a couple of inches apart from each other. Now stretch each hand out, your fingers as far out as you can go, both hands and now picture that this space between your hands is about a quarter of an inch across. Thats a rough model of what can happen in the brain when you dont keep stimulating those neurons and keep them stretched out. You gradually, as the dendrites and axons begin to contract from lack of use really, this canal, this synaptic gap between them begins to widen. Now it takes longer for the little neurotransmitter boats if you want to use that metaphor to carry the information across the canal to another dendrite. And it can actually come to the point where its so far across that the boats just dont make it. And then the brain can begin to exhibit symptoms of what we call, colloquially, senility. Meaning the person is just not thinking quickly and clearly. And in the absence of other brain damage or other chronic conditions, this can be reversed just by starting on a program of really stimulating the brain every day. And thats pretty exciting to watch Ben. Ben: And when you talk about stimulating your brain every day, are there specific exercises that people can be doing to ensure that this gap this highway between neurons remains as free flowing as possible? Dr. Arlene Taylor: Absolutely. There are specific exercises. I will start broadly and say that anything thats challenging to the brain and involves new information or material can help those neurons stay stretched out. Thats why for example, travel is very
  • good for the brain because youre seeing new things, eating new foods, smelling new scents, seeing new people, doing things the brain has never done before. Now, you can look at going perhaps to the junior college, if youre done with your formal education and taking a class for fun that your brain doesnt know that subject or taking that subject further. And as you consciously have the brain do that, it will be very stimulating. There are any number of what I call brain aerobic exercises that you can do that range anywhere from Sudoku to crossword puzzles to brain perception, puzzles. I just finished with a co-author another book called Age Proofing Your Memory. And its filled with examples of those types of exercises. So we believe that that will make a huge difference in a persons brain function barring some of the factors that you cant do anything about. However, even those factors, Ben, if you understand what they are, you can be proactive to minimize that. For example, we know for example how traumatic trauma can be to the brain. So if youre riding a bicycle or a motorcycle, you do want to wear a helmet. If youre in a vehicle, you do want to wear your seatbelt and you do want to avoid tailgating. You do want to look around your house and get anything off the floor, especially as people get older, that might be a trip hazard. Because falls are a big problem for people if they fall and hit their heads. So, even the factors that you cant totally control thats why we call them accidents they were unplanned, you can minimize them. For example the 13th of July Im going to have my left hip replaced. I have a familial history for several generations back of osteoarthritis and it has affected that hip. Im planning to have a spinal anesthetic, not a general on purpose to minimize the anesthetic effects to my brain. Now there might not every surgery you might not be able to do that. But Im doing what I can to minimize the negative impact to my brain. Ben: Interesting, and these specific lifestyle habits that people can incorporate such as the Sudoku, the crossword puzzles that you talked about, stimulating the brain by visiting new places, trying to travel, opposing those are there lifestyle habits that you think people engage in these days that would be damaging to the brain? In addition to things that we know
  • about like drinking too much? Are there other things that people do that you think are affecting the brain in a deleterious way? Dr. Arlene Taylor: Probably lots of things, especially for diet. High fat, high salt diets can contribute to atherosclerosis which is a narrowing of the blood vessels in the brain and when you cant get enough oxygen through the brain thats a problem. Things like exercising on a bright sunny day right beside a busy highway, because that means the breaths you take while youre exercising will theoretically contain a large number of free radicals from vehicle exhaust. And free radicals are not good for the brain. You want to avoid those. So I always encourage people to exercise away from highways where theres a lot of traffic, simply to avoid taking those chemicals into your brain. Ben: Now what about exercising indoors? Do you think the type of toxins, cleaners, things of that nature, for example used in a commercial gym would also be something that someone should consider when it comes to their brain health? Dr. Arlene Taylor: Boy, thats a hard one. I think it would depend on the gym and I think it would depend on what peoples alternatives were. Theres nothing flawless in this world, Ben. Nothing. You always give up something to get something. So lets say youre in a gym and they put in a new carpet and there is going to be some amount of (inaudible), if that is your alternative to be safer and to be protected for half an hour or an hour breathing in vehicle exhaust then Id take the gym. So it begins to be a matter of weigh things. Cause and effect. Which one do you think would be the least damaging? And I dont worry about it. I analyze things, take which I think is my best option and then just go for it, knowing that nothing is ever going to be flawless but there can be definitely benefits to prevent what you can if you want to put it that way. Ben: Now one of the things that I was thinking about as you were talking about continually keeping your brain, for lack of a better word, entertained is the fact that people fall into day to day lifestyle habits that put them into a rut or into a
  • routine and it sounds to me like what youre saying is that it may be beneficial to break out of that routine as you go through your day to day activities. Dr. Arlene Taylor: I think its so its not beneficial, I think its mandatory Ben. Ben: What are some practical ways that people can incorporate things into their lifestyle that allow them to break out of that routine? Obviously travel is a great example but thats something someone has to plan for and lay a schedule, but in terms of just being able to get home or being at work and having a quick chance to stimulate the brain, what are some things that people can do other than Sudoku and the crossword puzzles? Dr. Arlene Taylor: Well lets just make a comment about travel. Im not talking about a 3 week trip to China, although if you can do that so much the better. But you can travel a different way to work, which will be different sights and make your brain function in a different way. You can take yourself or the family across town to see something youve never seen before. That is a form of travel. So you dont have to think only of the big stuff. Ben: Thats a good point. I actually a lot of times after a long day at work where Ive been stressed for several hours. I will literally I never thought about why I did it but Ill just drive a different way home than I usually drive and maybe subconsciously Im just trying to keep myself entertained and stimulate my brain. Thats a good point about travel. Dr. Arlene Taylor: Another thing that you can do is you can read aloud for a minimum of 10 minutes every day because studies have shown that something entirely different happens to the brain when youre reading aloud as compared to reading quietly or silently to yourself. So you can read out loud to your kids, to your partner, to your cat, to yourself but reading aloud everyday is critically important. Many people in this country sit for many hours a day watching television and thats what we call pastic picturing meaning that youre processing in your brains something that another brain has created and while the research does show that a little television can be very helpful in other words, people who watch no television often seem to exhibit in some studies the same
  • brain characteristics as people who watch a lot. So the recommendation is watch about an hour a day, be careful what kind of programs you want to watch. But one of the biggest things you can do is just turn the tube off in favor of for example reading a book, because when you are reading silently or aloud, you are creating internal pictures in your brain about the information that youre reading instead of looking at pictures created already by somebody else. You can decide for example to turn all the pictures upside down on your desk or piano or mantle for a day or two and your brain when it looks at them will go oh my goodness, thats different. Ben: Interesting. Dr. Arlene Taylor: And then you can put them right side up and a week or two later turn them on their side. Anything that gives the brain something new to look at. If you are primarily right handed, decide youre going to learn to eat with your left hand and believe me its going to be just a tad messy at first but it will really be worth it. In my case I certainly was born with a functional left hand but I was so strongly right handed Ben that I could hardly do anything with my left hand except have it be decorative and when I began to learn this information, I decided ok, enough of that were going to stimulate my brain in a new way. So I have two computers. I have one at the hospital office and I have one at the Realizations, Inc. office. So I made the decision that when I was at the hospital office, I would only and always use the mouse with my right hand. However when I was at the Realizations, Inc. office, I would always and only use the mouse with my left hand. Believe me, it was a steep learning curve. It took me weeks to get me really facile with that hand. But I would be hard-pressed now Ben to tell you that my left hand is not almost as good if not as good as my right hand when it comes to using the mouse. Ben: Interesting, and people can do this with things as simple as brushing their teeth and eating, right? Dr. Arlene Taylor: Absolutely.
  • Ben: It seems silly that that simple change of just picking up your fork with your left hand rather than your right hand could actually make a difference in securing the health of your brain but it sounds like from what youre saying is that research has actually shown that simple things like that can actually help? Dr. Arlene Taylor: Sometimes, the simpler activities are actually more beneficial to the brain than what we would consider complex activities. Take mathematics for example, studies indicate that simple math problems done quickly are probably more challenging to the brain overall in terms of the type of stimulation were talking about than complex. So you take a page or you buy a book thats got a page of simple math problems addition, and you do one for subtraction, one for division, one for multiplication and were talking simple here Ben. Were talking 12 10, 7 x 6, 20 divided by four, 3 + 2 and you do a page of those, timing yourself with a stopwatch. Now your goal is to do it again the next day and see if you can beat your time and you keep doing that until you get the lowest possible time. Now you take another page and you go through that process again. And this appears to be much more stimulating to your brain as a way to keep those dendrites stretched out than the more complex, algebraic, geometric problems. Ben: Thats a great suggestion. Thats something that I guess occasionally Ill play mental exercises like that on the way to work where Ill take 2 + 2 and take the product of that and add 4 + 4 and just see how far I can go and how quickly I can go. Dr. Arlene Taylor: Good. Ben: Those are the types of things I guess I sometimes do when Im bored but they actually can help make you stronger and increase your brain health. Dr. Arlene Taylor: If you feel bored and what we know now suggests that the more extroverted a brain is, the more likely it is to become bored unless theres a lot of variety or stimulating stuff going on around it. So if you anytime feel bored, thats a marvelous time to pull a book out of your pocket and do some simple
  • brain aerobic exercises and if youre driving, you cant pull anything out of your pocket, but you could definitely do it mentally, as you just explained. And thats fabulous for your brain Ben. Ben: In your book Mind Waves, you talk about the difference between the ways that peoples brains function from an auditory, visual or kinesthetic perspective and while the book goes into a great deal of detail about the differences between all those, I think that one of the biggest things that I took out of that book was the fact that if you are, for example.. which I am, an auditory person, it helps your brain to grow, to engage in activities that actually dont cater to what your strengths are. So for example, for me as an auditory person I would want to engage in for example kinesthetic or visual activities. Can you talk for just a second about how that actually works and give me a couple of examples? Dr. Arlene Taylor: Well if youre born with an unimpaired brain and I say that sort of tongue in cheek Ben, because we all have impaired brains, but in general if youre born with a brain thats generally considered to be normal, average we have the ability to process sensory stimuli which is the only way really we can relate to each other in the world and the world. When were little kids, we talked about seeing and hearing and smelling and tasting and so on, things. In general, you can lump all of those types of sensory data into three groups. You are visual and that means what you take in through your eyes registers more quickly and intensely in your brain. Or your auditory and what you hear registers more quickly and intensely or youre kinesthetic and what you smell and taste and sense in terms of the clothes against your skin and the temperature in your room and body position and muscle action registers most quickly and intensely in your brain. That doesnt mean that you use all three. It means that if youre subjected to all three, one type usually gets your attention most quickly. So your point that if youre primarily auditory and so am I Ben, which means were usually pretty comfortable speaking and listening and reading because reading is processed in the same part as the brain as listening you can read of course with your eyes and your ears or your fingers it will be more stimulating to our
  • brains to do things for which we dont have this immediate, quick, intense response to. So since visual is my least sensory system meaning I have eyes and I think things are out there but I dont see detail in the way that people do that have the visual sensory preference I get myself books for example that have find the differences between two pictures so that I can help my brain to take information in visually in the way that ordinarily I wouldnt gravitate toward to because Im so auditory. I can eat a bite of food and ask myself am I able to identify some separate flavors in this particular type of food which is very kinesthetic and something I wouldnt ordinarily do. I can burn a scented candle while I am reading a book which is going to be stimulating my sense of kinesthesia which will perhaps give a different flavor to what Im doing while Im reading the books. So, Ben, the ramifications the potential theyre endless. They just depend on how creative you want your brain to be. Ben: What I really appreciated was the fact that you can even incorporate this into your relationships, for example being an auditory person I am not as strong and thats actually where I ranked the lowest in the book was the kinesthetic awareness. Just doing something as simple as not appreciating the fact that sometimes like in your family to be hugged or touched more. Just after reading the book I realized oh gosh, I maybe give my wife a big hug once a day and I could be doing that five or six times a day because if shes a kinesthetic person shes going to appreciate that even for myself as an auditory person, I find having a conversation with her to be something that I appreciate quite a bit. She might appreciate a hug just as much. Dr. Arlene Taylor: Its so key Ben. In fact the reason that I put the sensory preferences on my website and anyone can go download it free of charge and you did to figure out what their preference is. Most people, we believe, have one. Because the bottom line is that if were not aware, we tend to relate to others in our preference because we believe that takes less energy in our brain. Now if you happen to be partnered with someone who has the same sensory preference and your kids all have the same sensory preference, its a non issue. But that
  • doesnt always happen. If youre auditory and your wife is kinesthetic and lets say you have a visual and kinesthetic child. Neither one of whom is auditory then figuring out what they are allows you to affirm them, to nurture them in the use of sensory stimuli that will register most quickly in their brains. And thats how they feel loved and valued and comfortable. Its so easy to do once you have that awareness. Your example is absolutely magnificent. As an auditory, you tend as I do to relate to others through sound. Whether thats a word or a hmmm or something like that, that registers quickly in our brain. But if youre dealing with a kinesthetic who is into odors and taste and touch, that wont register very quickly in their brain and the first thing I want to remind people is that yes kinesthetics relate to touch but they are very discriminating about who touches them. So I dont ever run up and hug a kinesthetic unless I know theyre open to that, but if they are theyre going to feel affirmed by a hug in a very different way than they would feel affirmed if I just said, well hi Jane Im really glad to see you today. Its critically important for children. When I have a parent bring a child to me and say This year my child is not doing well in school and I dont know what the problem is. The first thing Ill look at is can we figure out what the teachers sensory preference is and can we figure out the childs preference. Because if theyre very different, that child may be struggling to learn simply because its so difficult to learn in a sense that it takes more energy in the brain and so on. Ben: Interesting. Now I know that one of the things that the audience is quite into is exercise and I just want to touch on this before I move on to the last issue I wanted to ask you about and that is that Ive been thinking as we talk about the fact that people tend to also get into a rut with their exercise routines and I personally just wanted to throw a word of encouragement out to you and that is at the end of every gym type of routine that I do, and typically Ill go to the gym for about 30 to 40 minutes, I always save 5 to 10 minutes to throw something new at myself. Whether it be a new exercise machine or a new balance device or something that keeps my body and of course my brain guessing during the exercise routine, so as youre out there in the audience listening in,
  • realize that these types of techniques can also be used to enhance your brain fitness so to speak. Is that right? Dr. Arlene Taylor: Thats such a good way to put it. In fact, the brain gets quickly. For example, about 18 to 24 months after you begin a romantic relationship, the brain goes Ok, been there, done that. Now what else can we do? And thats the critical importance to make a commitment to have a primary person your whole life, you need to continually do things differently with each other to keep the brain excited. Well exercise is exactly the same and many people get bored with the same type of exercise and the brain doesnt like to continue something for which it does not get a reward. So one of the key important things that you can do is always change up your exercise routine. Lets just say for example, and youre the exercise guru, so you can refine this more than I can but lets say you go to the gym and you do 15 minutes on a treadmill and you do 10 minutes swimming and you do 10 minutes on a weight machine. You do that that in that order a few times and your brain starts yawning metaphorically. So change it up if you possibly can all the time. Swim 10 minutes then do your treadmill then do your weight. The next day do your weights, treadmill and swim. Next time do treadmill, swimming, weight. Do you see what I mean? Ben: Yep, and that both from a brain perspective and a fitness perspective is important because whenever youre putting the muscle into new angles it basically isnt allowed to adapt or become efficient at that movement and that actually has quiet a good crossover into getting fitter. Dr. Arlene Taylor: I think theres so much crossover Ben, if people just understood that they can be exercising and we do need the aerobic exercise. We also need some stretching and some balance and some flexibility. But if they do those exercises in a novel way were not talking unsafe were just talking novel in the way theyre doing them or the order in which theyre doing them. They will also be stimulating the brain which of course has the potential for allowing the brain to stay healthier longer and therefore help them to be able to exercise longer. Because you know as well as I do that
  • athletes at every age seem to be healthier in general than non-athletes. So we dont have to be Olympic competitors but we can do something every day, every week to do both at the same time. Another thing you can do is if you are auditory and enjoy books on tape, which I do, which also other people can learn to do even if theyre not auditory instead of just listening to the same music over and over on your iPod while youre on the treadmill, try listening to something on tape thats cognitive a story that you have to follow a storyline that youre making pictures in your brain while youre exercising. If you do this on a topic that youre already interested in, it can be amazing how you can hardly realize the exercise time has gone by because your brain was also engaged cognitively. Ben: Thats a great point. Now there was one other thing that I wanted to ask you. I have a supplement that I talked about before on the show that I take for energy called Delta-E and one of the things claimed on the literature is that it has a component in it that actually helps with your mood. It helps with your brain function and I got a magazine in one of my orders that actually had an article by you about that compound called Theanine. And what I was curious was number one, is that something that you supplement with or that you take? And number two, is it something that really can help with the brain function or the mood? Dr. Arlene Taylor: Thats a very complex question. First of all, yes. I take Delta- E everyday of my life and absolutely believe in what it does for my brain. Not only the B complex that it contains but especially the L-Theanine which is really quite a player. And there are some research articles out that indicate that for many people it is able having adequate levels of L- Theanine helps to improve memory, learning ability and so on and so forth. Now, heres the kicker. Not every brain needs the same thing. So when I take a nutritional product and I take two of them every day. Delta E is one of them, the other one is EnerPrime which has as its base green superfood, I picture that I am giving my brain this exposure to a marvelous buffet. Many other brains can go to that same buffet but I might need certain things on that buffet for my brain that another brain wont need but theyll need
  • something else on that buffet. And thats why its so difficult to say, you take this micronutrient and it will do blah blah blah for your brain. If your brain doesnt need that particular piece youre not going to notice a lot of difference but if it does you can notice a huge difference and since L-Theanine for example does a lot of different things, most brains that I have interacted with that take the product definitely see some benefit and Im taking it because I believe that long- term, it can help to strengthen both my brain and my immune system. Ben: Interesting, so is that something that you think people are deficient in or something that people arent getting enough of? Or is it something that there still needs to be research done on? Dr. Arlene Taylor: Well I think there is ongoing research right now that indicates, unfortunately, just like many adults in this country especially as they get up to the age of 50, 55 are dehydrated, are not drinking enough water everyday which is lethal for the brain because dehydration tends to increase the production of free radicals. It appears that as the brain gets older, it begins to drop its levels of L-Theanine. And one of the things that L-Theanine reportedly does for the brain is stimulate the release of nerve growth factor or NGF as its called. And that particular factor contributes to the growth of dendrites those little fingers on your neuron hand. And its definitely needed by the brain cells that use acetyl koline for signaling, meaning that its important for the cells to help you be alert, think quickly and calmly. And so I believe that at almost any age people can start perhaps preventing the decline of amounts of L-Theanine in the brain by going ahead and taking it. It also reportedly activates something called the 5th taste sense on your tongue. Theres a Japanese word for that which I cant pronounce which has to do with your taste buds being able to process how delicious something else. Ben: Interesting. Dr. Arlene Taylor: Now one of the problems in our culture is monosodium glutamate. My brains opinion is that it is really lethal. It is a
  • brain toxic. And I try to avoid anything thats got MSG in it or Ben: I heard the fuzzy feeling that you get after you eat Chinese food is the feeling of a million brain neurons. I dont know if thats true. Dr. Arlene Taylor: I dont know but I ask in every Chinese restaurant if they use MSG and if they do, I dont want to eat there. But heres the problem. Anything thats MSG or chemicals that end in ate are called neurotoxic substances. Well L-Theanine activates that 5th taste sense which theoretically can do for your taste buds what MSG would do without the neurotoxic effects. And I love the taste of food even though kinesthesia is my second sensory preference, so I believe that I am enjoying my food more now that Im taking Delta-E. Ben: Interesting. I thought it was interesting to find out what the worlds leading brain authority actually supplements with for their brain, so that was good to know. Now do you have any final resources to which you would point the audience to learn more about brain function? I know that you mentioned the survey the brain sensory survey that you have on your website anything else that you think would be helpful for the audience in terms of growing their brain? Dr. Arlene Taylor: What Im trying to do, Ben, is make my website the most complete and user-friendly resources for what Im able to discover about brain function. So individuals can go to my website which is basically my name, its really easy. www.arlenetaylor.org and they can click on Brain Bits and every week theres a little new brain bit about what were learning about brain function. They can go to something called Brain Facts and there are dozens of links that will take them to the little piece of brain function research and where I found that. So they can do a tremendous amount of brain stimulation by looking at those types of resources and then if they find something, for example, that theyre really interested in then they can get books or look on the Internet for additional information and all of that is going to stimulate brain function and hopefully help them retain cognition for a very long time.
  • Ben: Thats fantastic. You have several books out. Im going to put a link to at least the book that I have sitting here in front of me, just because its the one that I most recently read. Ill put a link to that one in the Shownotes as well as a link to your website where Im sure that people can find out about the other books that youve written. Just very easy to read, simple to understand books. Its not like theyre textbooks on neurofunction but Ive actually enjoyed your books because theyve got stuff that I can just practically implement right away. So thats very useful. But I wanted to thank you for coming on the show today, Dr. Taylor. Dr. Arlene Taylor: Its always my pleasure to talk to you Ben. Its fun to talk to somebody who has similar interests in health, immune system, exercise, the brain. Of course when we talk to people about similar interests, we always feel a little bit smarter and we can exchange information with each other so I appreciate being your guest. Have a wonderful day. Ben: Alright, you too, Arlene. Thanks. For personal nutrition, fitness or triathlon consulting, supplements, books or DVDs from Ben Greenfield, please visit Pacific Elite Fitness at http://www.pacificfit.net