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ARANGKADA PHILIPPINES CREATIVE INDUSTRIES FORUM CREATIVE INDUSTRIES: THE NEXT SUNRISE INDUSTRY

November 27, 2018 | Ballroom 2, Fairmont Makati

PANEL 3: CREATIVE HUBS

PANEL DISCUSSION Moderator: Ms. Florentina P. Colayco – President, Metropolitan Museum of Manila Guest Speaker: Hon. Nora K. Terrado – Undersecretary, Trade and Investments Promotion Group, Department of Trade and Industry; and Governor, Board of Investment Panelist 1: Atty. Guiller B. Asido – Administrator, Intramuros Administration Panelist 2: Ms. Malaya del Rosario – Head of Arts and Creative Industries, The British Council Panelist 3: Ms. Maria Rita O. Matute – Executive Director, Design Center of the Philippines Panelist 4: Mr. Matthew D.M Morrison – Founder and CEO of A SPACE Panelist 5: Ms. Ces Rondario – Co-Founder and CEO, Impact Hub Manila Panelist 6: Mr. Brian Tenorio – Chairperson, LGBT Chamber of Commerce of the Philippines Panelist 7: Ms. Dolly Anne Zoluaga – Assistant Department Head and Zoning Administrator of Planning and Development Office, Iloilo City

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Panel Discussion Florentina P. Colayco: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. In major global cities, creative hubs are part of the city’s growth mix to balance business and trade with art, culture, and myriad forms of creative expression. We have this afternoon a distinguished panel from both government and private sectors. They were involved in various capacities of leading organizations, institutions, companies, programs, and advocacy groups. They will not only share their visions, passions, expertise, but they will provide us with some interesting context on the discussion of creative hubs. To get started, I would like to ask each member of the panel to talk briefly about their involvement and their roles in key initiatives, programs, collaborations in galvanizing hubs of talent and creative resources. I would like to call on Ms. del Rosario, the British Council, just to get things started. How do creative hubs actually figure out in the strategy and plan of creative industries? Ms. Malaya del Rosario: Good afternoon. I am very happy to be here, so thank you for inviting me.

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Creative hubs are spaces, although they can be non-physical entities as well, where creative [individuals] work and gather. When we talk about creative [individuals], these are not just artists, but people from different industries who benefit from creativity in their work. We see hubs as benefiting communities and societies through a triple bottom line. When we talk about triple bottom line, we are not just talking about hubs creating economic value, but as well as social and cultural value. In the Philippines, in case you are wondering, hubs could be maker spaces or co-working spaces even artist-run spaces. They convene people from different creative sectors. They are spaces for experimentation. When we talk about creative economy, there will be no economy without creative output and ideas. Ideas thrive in creative hubs also innovation. When you bring people together from different sectors–if you bring artists together–they make magic, but what more if they are coming from the sciences, the arts, and accounting. You bring them together and you give them a platform to talk, exchange ideas, and create new things. Creative hubs are really at the core of the creative economy and we need to make sure that we are able to sustain them and make them thrive. Florentina P. Colayco: Thank you very much. Just taking-off from the earlier speech, design is also one of the more active groups now and I would like to ask Rhea Matute on her many projects on design, but I asked her to focus on some current initiatives. Maria Rita O. Matute: From the perspective of the Design Center, one of our pet initiative is the Design Week Philippines. This is really about engaging the Philippine population. It is actually timed with Manila Fame to show outside the exhibition halls of Manila Fame that creativity lives outside our regular exhibition hall such as World Trade Center or SMX. What we do is we put focus on various hubs and creative environments throughout Metro Manila and now it is expanding beyond Metro Manila. One of our advocacy is with Intramuros. We believe that Intramuros is known for its place in history, but it is not just about the past, getting people to look at Intramuros as a place of the future. This is where it provides context within the Philippine landscape, but if we bring in the creative [individuals] and technology in Intramuros, it widens the opportunity for Intramuros to gather not just people who are into the heritage and cultural sector, but it also brings in the creative sector. Once there is that kind of collaboration, it becomes an exciting environment by which innovation can thrive and innovation can be driven. A true Filipino innovation can be driven through a hub like Intramuros. Florentina P. Colayco: Maybe we can call on Atty. Asido. He is one of the busiest people now, giving new life to Intramuros. Can you expound on that? Atty. Guiller B. Asido: We basically partnered with the Design Center of the Philippines and the Creative Economy Council. This actually came after a Saturday afternoon meeting in Intramuros. We were just going to see the sights, but after that they saw the Maestranza–a 44 chamber property beside the Pasig River. On that time and date, we decided to create it already as a Maestranza Creative Hub.

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As stated in the [Creative Industries] policy brief, our board of administrators already approved the concept and we are now going into the next level of ensuring the completion of the Maestranza as a creative hub. When we came in, there was really no business plan for the Maestranza. The only indication was to make it as a commercial space, but we recognized the value of the space beyond the commercial value. What we intend to do right now is to give it a proper value in terms of our direction also of creating this new narrative for Intramuros as a hub for creativity, heritage, culture, and tourism. Florentina P. Colayco: Fantastic. We have someone who is a firm believer in promoting creative hubs across the country. Mr. Morrison, what is some of the critical factors necessary for a city or a country to promote creative hubs? Matthew D.M Morrison: As a foreigner, one of the things you come into a country with is no preconceived ideas so I see Philippines already as a hub for creativity. I also believe that everyone is creative–no one decides “I am going to be a boring person,” no one chooses to work in a boring office or live in a boring neighborhood or condominium. The first thing is for us, when we started A SPACE or when we pioneered co-working, was to already accept that there was a creative community of people and there were already people out there who wanted to be more creative–doctors, nurses, teachers, even people in government are desperate for their creativity to be recognized. One way of creating a hub is to open your doors and start helping people be more creative, reduce the risk that comes with bringing ideas to the surface, figure out what they need to thrive, and then get out of the way and let them do their thing. One thing that is really happening over the last decade is there is a lot more cultural confidence that you can see. There is a lot more of this emerging flavor that what is happening in the Philippines is worth exploring and listening to. You do not have to import everything in and that has given a whole generation of entrepreneurs the confidence to build on their ideas and attract other people to support them. That has given us a flourishing market in new food and new restaurants and also government is listening, which is why we are here today. The main thing is recognizing everyone is creative, hubs can gather those creative people together, make more signals, and the rest of us should have to give each other what we need to thrive. Florentina P. Colayco: Thank you. We also have somebody with us this afternoon who is working with social entrepreneurs. Ms. Ces Rondario, would you like to tell us about Impact Hub? Ces Rondario: Good afternoon, thank you for inviting me. Maybe to leverage on what Lai [del Rosario] mentioned about what the creative hubs are really supposed to harness. Impact Hub, we are a global network, we are the largest network of entrepreneurs in the world. We are about in 100 cities, 50 countries–you name it, we probably have a hub there. We started about 13 years ago.

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When we brought the brand to the Philippines about three and a half years ago, the core goal was to help social enterprises from across the sector. In the past three and a half years, we have had the pleasure of working with artists from the grassroots community, from textile, who were doing crafts. Through our partners, PEF [Peace and Equity Foundation] and WWF [World Wildlife Fund for Nature], we work alongside organizations whose core goal is to uplift the lives of the people. A lot of what we have noticed is that they are the ones that have been forgotten and have not been given access to the tools that entrepreneurs in Manila, especially the startups have had access to, because they are very far, internet has been a problem, and such like that. My dream is that every entrepreneur becomes a social entrepreneur that everybody who builds a business has a cause for the people and the planet. What we do at the hubs is to put them in programs. We have seven spaces across the city by now. We are opening another three more soon. Our goal is really to give voice to those who want to be an entrepreneur. The core goal of Impact Hub is not the startups or the the ventures, the core goal of Impact Hub is to produce people who will create more, who will innovate, and who will disrupt the country. I hope that gives a framing to what we are and what we do. Florentina P. Colayco: Thank you. We also have with us a very big proponent of design competitiveness and design consciousness in the country, but we would like to know more about your push working with poor communities in building, what he calls, hotbeds of innovation and creativity. Brian [Tenorio]? Brian Tenorio: Thank you, Tina. My background is fashion and design and now food, but one of the things we have been working on in the Philippine LGBT Chamber of Commerce is diversity work and gender inclusion. We realized with the work we have done in the sector that diversity in sectors that are marginalized–whenever the population is less than 5% of a total population–there could more chances for innovation and creativity. When I talk about marginalized sectors, these include LGBT, people in mental wellness situations, people who come from various ethnicities when they are not so popular in a sector. It is not just about the things that are determined by your genetics or how you are, but you could also be part of a smaller sector because of your life’s situation. For example, sawi sa pag-ibig, heartbroken, happy, extremely happy, and coming out from a great job. The idea is if you are in a different situation in your life and you are a bit different from most people, there is a larger chance for you to be more innovative and creative. I always say in the past that the developing country perspective of us, Filipinos, when we go to the global world is a really interesting thing to have because we understand how it is to be to make raket, to make diskarte, and to do things and be able to create something from not so many things. In a way, design is doing more with less, but we have a lot of less in this country, we have an abundance of less in the Philippines. That is why it is more fun to be a designer in the Philippines and to be creative. Thanks. Florentina P. Colayco: There is that huge pool of creative resources here. Now, we have someone from Iloilo. Would you like to tell us about the well-balanced environment of heritage, art, and culture that is going on in your city?

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Dolly Anne Zoluaga: Yes, I would be happy to tell about the culture and arts in Iloilo City. Our city is very rich in the all these creative industries. Now, we have subculture. I, myself, grew up from a subculture of metal fans. It is very strong and these subcultures are also entrepreneurial. What we do in the local government is that we should create these accessible places not only in the physical landscape, but also in policies for them to come out because, I understand from the earlier discussions, all these creative [individuals] are sporadic–they are not organized. The major role of local governments here is to keep them together because we believe that creativity flourish when there are plenty of minds that work. What Iloilo City is putting premium also is to develop public open spaces. What is popular in Iloilo City is the parks, the esplanades, and it is still growing. These are not just public open spaces for beautification or for aesthetic purposes, but these are places where people converge. When people have this free access to beautiful landscapes, they can think of something beautiful, something out of the ordinary, and something out of the box because we need to service people, the less privileged. We want to show them that there is a beautiful world out there. They need to create something out of their misery because I am sure that is the best way to create things with a little ounce of misery and a little ounce of drive. That is the beauty that Iloilo City is putting premium on is public open spaces. Florentina P. Colayco: Thank you. Usec. Nora Terrado, after hearing various contexts and perspectives on creative hubs, would you like to comment on what cross-cultural and cross-border hubs would mean for investments and for organizing projects? Hon. Nora K. Terrado: As we know, the world is so interconnected. We cannot be isolated. Based on what I have discovered, connecting with hubs in Germany, Korea, Taiwan, or even in China and in other places are very important connectedness because to enrich the creative hubs there should be elements of talent exchange not just ideas exchange. We have tolerant–a lot of tolerance in ideas–and the battle of the mindset. It is in the differences in the culture and your ability to interact with the other creative [individuals] around the world, which would enhance these opportunities and would open the minds. I am currently a civil servant and the role that I do in the government is I am an ecosystem builder. As a builder, we have to be conscious of the environment and what is out there because some countries when you ask them “what is your innovation strategy?” That country would say “imitate and then innovate.” Earlier on we heard that from K-Pop and SB 19. That is connectedness. That is about tolerance. That is about building that environment and connecting with the outside world mean “Aha! Experience,” a “eureka,” or something that you could then customized for our environment and later on create something for ourselves. Connectedness is nothing if nothing happens. We, in our respective roles–whether you are in government, in private sector, or even as a family member–should be movers and shakers to be ready for the future. With all these machine learnings and all these things about digital and technology, the things that would survive will be the creative [individuals]. Florentina P. Colayco: Thank you, Usec. Terrado. Before we have an open the open forum, I would like to ask one more question and ask our panelists to respond to this. Looking ahead 10-12 years from now,

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starting 2019, the CECP is working on a 2030 roadmap and a vision of the Philippines being the number one in creative economy in ASEAN in terms of size, value, and the country’s creative industry. I would like to ask our panelists about any alignments or any programs–what you are doing today or possibly in the future–in support of this direction and goal? I would like to know if it is all achievable. Malaya del Rosario: The British Council is the UK’s cultural relations organization and our role in this agenda, as what Usec. [Terrado] has said, is to connect. We are here to support creative hubs. We see them as creative communities and our role is to connect them with other creative communities in the UK, even within ASEAN, or wherever British Council is working. To do that means strengthening the ecosystem and what does these strengthening the ecosystem mean? It means supporting the skills and professional development of our creative entrepreneurs and artists, developing policies that would support them long term, and giving them access to networks. The value of networks is often underestimated. When we are talking about an artist outside Manila, looking for opportunities, the network would be quite limited. Being able to provide a platform that would enable them to build networks is quite precious. Also, thought leadership, being able to communicate the value of creativity and culture. As I was mentioning before, the a triple bottom line value of arts and culture and creativity as a soft skill and a way of building a future industry, future businesses, and future societies, is quite important. On a personal note, the people beside me, I treat them as family. It is really about being part of a movement with the shared goals and being part of this group is quite a precious thing and would really enable us to reach the 2030 goal that CECP stated earlier on. Florentina P. Colayco: Okay. Yes, Matt [Morrison]? Matthew D.M Morrison: One of the things private sector is doing and should continue to do is make some money out of this. It is really exciting when you see the members thrive. When you see them employing new people, paying taxes, investing in new technology, taking their place nationally, regionally, and globally. That is one of the things that we are starting to see now. Yes, it is helpful if we have great policy. Yes, it is helpful if we have tax incentives; yes it is helpful if BIR was a little bit friendlier with their filing. Ultimately speaking, despite those challenges you have this push for excellence and success in business. Certainly, within A SPACE and the members, we can accommodate the growth of many of the businesses that come through us and that has to be a great sign. We have to continue to help those success stories grow, pay their taxes, and create employment. Florentina P. Colayco: Yes, [Dolly Anne Zoluaga]? Dolly Anne Zoluaga: I would like to add the role of local government units in this target would be to improve the business environment.

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We have been lucky because we have been supported by the USAID SURGE (Strengthening Urban Resilience for Growth with Equity) Project along with other CDI (Cities Development Initiative) cities—Batangas, Cagayan de Oro, General Santos, Legazpi, Puerto Princesa, Tagbilaran, and Zamboanga. Those cities are our siblings in this movement because from the profile of our CDI sister cities as secondary cities with limited resources, population size, and face similar challenges. With that collaboration with them, we were able to have a sibling competition wherein we wanted to match somebody’s success, but at the same time it is for the success of the country. It is a good sort of brotherhood or sisterhood and it creates ultimately a good business environment and a role model for the entire country. Florentina P. Colayco: Brian [Tenorio]? Brian Tenorio: Self-awareness and self-mastery will make any person sexy and desirable. A sector that is self-aware with a great self-master who knows itself would be a sector that can bring itself to the future. I remember in a conversation with a friend a few weeks back, he was talking about how Pinoys would say “the Filipino can” and he says he is okay with that and that is great, but we got to move beyond that and say “these are the things we have to do and we have to do it already.” It is not anymore a question of capability or capacity, but we have to do the things that we have to do. We feel that any form of support from government, NGOs, IGOs, and private sector to support creative individuals and sectors to do the things that they want to do and they have to do will be something good to bring us to the future. Florentina P. Colayco: Ces [Rondario]? Ces Rondario: We need more pipeline to be honest. We work with startups a lot, but I now memorize everybody's pitch decks at this point. We need more pipeline and to deliver on pipeline on creative [individuals], startups, and entrepreneurs. We need to go back to the core, which is education. We need to go back into what are we teaching people and what training programs are available that are going to be accessible for a lot of people. If you talk about the, as Usec. Noya [Nora K. Terrado] was saying, data, science, and machine learning. Do we have those things available in the Philippines to get us to the next level? What do we have available across the country? Everything is centralized in Manila and the megacities—Cebu and Davao. We did the nationwide road show this year and we went to Clark, Baguio, CDO, Iloilo, and Dumagete. Brilliant talent. We could not do enough. We were there for two days, but we had to leave and there is so much talent and hunger. What are we doing for the countryside? The things that we need to focus on is pipeline. It is only going to be cured through enough access and education. The first thing to change his mindset. We have to go down to the ground.

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Apart from that we need a failure fund. We need to allow artists to fail to start prototyping, to start failing, to start doing, and to start being creative about what they are doing. In Silicon Valley, US$ 70,000 is the normal prototype fund for a start-up. In the Philippines, the normal ticket sizes that we give to our startups is about US$ 300,000 worth of grants to startups and social enterprises. Over the last three years, ticket sizes are US$ 10,000-30,000 in pure grant, but they are going to need that for the next two months. How are they going to create? Whatever they put up as capital that is it, that is the money that they have. We need pipeline and we need more investment. There is a lot of money and there is a lot of investment coming into the Philippines, but it is not matched. There is a mismatch of where the money is going because everybody wants to invest in the new technology, which is great, but the Philippines has yet to grow into the tech giant that we are. We are investing supposedly in the grassroots and trying to get those people out so that we could get an economy that is a bit fuller and more robust. Florentina P. Colayco: We do have all those challenges facing us. Yes, Rhea [Matute]? Maria Rita O. Matute: For the Design Center, what my big goal is for people to appreciate design beyond making things pretty. There is more to design than that. Use design and the design talent to solve real-world problems. As a hub, what I am hoping to have, which is also what I said in our conference Dangerous Ideas, is a hub for disaster and resiliency research and design. We have the makings at least the environment by which to test ideas and to understand what is happening in terms of disaster and climate change, but it is also developing that environment by which people can explore solutions and test them out. There is that space and that is where Filipino innovation should be known for because it an easy jump from what we are as a country and what we can provide the world. That is also an answer to Professor Howkins challenge about passion, ambition, and knowledge of the global market is the idea of an international hub for resiliency and disaster design and R&D. Florentina P. Colayco: Yes, [Atty. Guiller B. Asido]? Atty. Guiller B. Asido: Based on the limited experience that I have with Creative Council and the Design Center, one important policy that really contributed to the identification of Maestranza as a creative hub was when we adopted that policy of openness in terms of the creative economy. We had the first Manila Biennale and we offered the whole of Intramuros as a canvas. We said that you can use the public space where you can do public exhibitions. Because of that openness policy, we were able to convince a lot of artists to use the spaces and even the NCCA has offered [to help promote]. There are ongoing exhibits in the walls of Intramuros. It is that policy of openness and this should be emulated as well by some local government units. The other matter, strategically, is to remove the physical barriers, especially in creating that network. For example, Intramuros is located near the National Museum and the Rizal Park, but now there is this consciousness among the heads of the agencies that we should create that network, [such as] a simple removal of a physical barrier between Intramuros and National Museum and improve the

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GOMBURZA Monument as a public space, assures us that connectivity between the historic district and the National Museum. Those are two learning points that we have so far: (1) openness and (2) release strategic direction to remove the barriers. Florentina P. Colayco: Good to know that things are moving. Usec. Terrado, looking at the comments that we have had here, what are our prospects for investments that can tap into the wealth of talent and pool of resources in the Philippines? Hon. Nora K. Terrado: First, I would like to emphasize that we are very attractive because we have the supply. What we need to do would be to attract also investors who would have the willingness to be a partner of the Philippines in building the ecosystem because this openness allows us to create that environment where the shared value and creation is so important. My work is about trade and investments promotion. What we need as a country would be things that would allow us to learn more skills that are not here and knowledge base, knowledge ware, and know-how that we could actually adopt. Overall, the most important thing for us as a country before we even talk about attracting trade in investments is about our intent and our vision. We have a group the Creative Economy Council of the Philippines who is by default wanting to drive that vision. This vision should be shared and this vision should be inclusive. There are a lot of available resources in the country. The first group of people who should invest and do trade to make this ecosystem survive would be the local economy. We have 105 million consumer base. Other countries are coming here because they are attracted about the consumer base. This is very unique for us. In creative [industries], we also have a different workforce now. It is a lot of contractors, gig economy, and other sharing economy. We could make use of this, if we Filipinos can go overcome our spirit of archipelagic approach in everything. Rather build bridges and take advantage of the resources available for us. It is the intent. If we have that vision as a country to create a new sunrise industry we can do it in the next 10 years and the vision of the council (Creative Economy Council of the Philippines) is 2030. We should start here and we could gather, for instance, the music industry for instance or the media could be the core. Make it concentric. Florentina P. Colayco: Thank you. Malaya del Rosario: Can I add something? Florentina P. Colayco: Yes. Malaya del Rosario It was mentioned a while ago of the idea of failure because when we talk about business it is all about success. Hubs are places where you can fail because there are places where you can experiment, prototype, and refine your ideas and products so they are really incubators.

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Also, they support a lot of small businesses and entrepreneurs so they are made up of a lot of MSMEs and that is quite important when you talk about local development and inclusive growth. There are places that think about what business may look like 10, 20, 30 years from now and maybe the businesses of the future are not about scale, but about the power and numbers of small businesses. There are places where you can think about those things. Earlier, someone asked “if everyone is an entrepreneur who will work for the entrepreneurs?” It is other entrepreneurs working for entrepreneurs because we would be sharing our services with each other, which could also go to the question of “is it about competitiveness or collaboration?” The business of the future. “Is it about competing with each other and cut through competition or is it about sharing access to networks or to markets and actually collaborating with a shared goal?” Panel 3: Open Forum Florentina P. Colayco: We have a lot of ideas here from our panelists and our audience might want to be able to ask questions at this point? Q1-Gentleman 1: The [socio-] economic plan of [NEDA Sec.] Ernesto Pernia lists the Creative Industries as one of the 10 in the 10-Point Agenda [of the Duterte Administration]. How are we organized to achieve the objectives of that plan? Do we have something like Korea has or the big graph of Indonesia? I direct this to Usec. Terrado. Hon. Nora K. Terrado: In terms of the creative economy, there is a couple of agencies responsible for that. No, I do not think there is one [plan], but the PDP (Philippine Development Plan) has put Chapter 7. Atty. Guiller B. Asido: In Chapter 7 of the Philippine Development Plan, there is a discussion on culture and values. You have there a discussion as well that on the Filipino value of Malikhain so that is creativity. That is the policy framework that we worked on when we were working on the concept of the Maestranza creative hub. By devoting this space not just as cultural space, but a creative space as well, we are complying with the Philippine Development Plan of promoting Filipino values. Q1-Gentleman 1: What is the Maestranza? Atty. Guiller B. Asido: [Maestranza] used to be the port for the galleon trade. One historical basis as well is that was the where globalization started in terms of the Manila-Acapulco [galleon] trade. Our discussion with the Creative Economy Council of the Philippines and the Design Center is that this can actually be the space where there will be a globalization of Filipino creativity and ideas. Q1-Gentleman 1: I would like to ask Atty. Asido about Intramuros. One barrier to developing Intramuros into a real tourist hub are the informal settlers. What is the solution? Have you found a solution to the end of the informal settlers there? Atty. Guiller B. Asido: Yes, there is this synergy between the property owners, the informal settlers, and government. Government has allotted budget for that where we will be providing socialized housing for informal settlers. At this stage, we are now working on the final MOA with the Socialized Housing Financing Corporation that will lead to the relocation and resettlement of the informal settlers.

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Q1-Gentleman 1: Is there a timetable? Atty. Guiller B. Asido: Yes, sir. We are supposed to start with the first movement by first quarter of next year. We are just waiting for the school term to end. Q1-Gentleman 1: Every time I go to the Manila Cathedral or to San Agustin, I am repelled by the number of people around there begging and doing all sorts of things. It is a turn-off for the tourists. Thank you. Florentina P. Colayco: Thank you too. Are there any questions? There is one very interesting question here [Sli.do] “several speakers mentioned that people in the creative industry are not entrepreneurial and lacking in business know-how. How is this address?” Considering that there is a gig economy, there should be a need for the artists to have some kind of a business background. Yes, maybe I could ask Cess [Rondario] about this. Ces Rondario: I always go back to what we define as entrepreneurs. I always think that entrepreneurship is a mindset. It is someone who is solutions-driven and who wants to create. It might not necessarily want to turn it into a business, but in the event that it becomes a venture, Filipinos are very entrepreneurial because we are survivors. We are predisposed to taking what we have and turning it into something. The question is sustainability that is a separate question. To make money is easy, you can take one product and sell it. The question is are you financially sustainable that is something that we need to address continually through education, through mentorship, and through spaces that will allow people to thrive. Florentina P. Colayco: Anyone else? Yes, [Usec. Nora K. Terrado]? Hon. Nora K. Terrado: In the Philippines, there is a lot of startups. In the Department of Trade and Industry, we are moving to something higher that scale-ups because in any entrepreneurial endeavor there is always failure. If we could increase the chances of companies scaling then that would be good. We are supporting startups to be scale-ups and we are identifying candidates and developing a pipeline. We have identified a hundred of them and if 10% of them will be scale-ups at a certain year then we would have created the future medium-sized company. It is also important not to underrate the capability of our entrepreneurs. It is just there in the informal sector. Q1-Gentleman 1: Ms. Colayco, may I contribute to the discussion? We recognize that artists are not entrepreneurs. They are good performers, but look at their financials–it is a mess. Several years ago, we decided to put up a school that developed artist's ability to be entrepreneurs. We put up Meridian College of Business and Arts, a combination of business and arts. We started with a program of music business management, it is the business side of music rather than music performance itself. We teach our musicians how to manage their businesses, same thing with film.

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In our film program, we teach accounting for film so that they will know how to account for all the money that flows in and out and other aspects of entrepreneurship. It has to be taught and taught properly by people who know how to do their business rather than by artists alone. Florentina P. Colayco: Thank you very much. Time is up. I am sorry, but I wish we could have more time to go on with our discussion on creative hubs. I would like to thank again our panelists. They have been great. Thank you for the enlightened ideas.