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AOA Transcript

EPISODE — MARCUS AURELIUS ANDERSON

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:18.0] LC: Welcome to this week’s episode of the Art of Authenticity, I’m Laura Coe your

host and once again, I think each and every one of you for tuning in to listen to today’s show. We have a very special guest with us today. Marcus Aurelius Anderson is joining us and he is a

TED X speaker. He is an author, a coach but he’s also a medically retired army veteran and what that means is, he was actually in the US army, he joined when he was 37 years old.

Past the age that you're supposed to and in that time, he actually suffered an injury that left him

paralyzed, he was told he would never use his hands again nor would he walk. After going deep into a depression, lots of anger and facing a tremendous internal battle.

Marcus decided he had a choice to make, he can either stay angry or – and play the victim or

he could get himself together, change his life, change his mentality and actually get himself back up and walking which is what he did.

Unbelievable inspired human being who has now written a book called of course, The Gift of

Adversity. He’s taken this tremendously difficult situation and sees it as a gift, wrote a book about it, did a TED X talk about it and coaches on the topic. Really filled with life lessons that all

of us are facing every day, it’s interesting how you don’t have to have had such a severe injury to relate to the things that he’s going through in your everyday life.

I enjoyed my conversation very much on top of this, really nice guy. I know you will too, tune in,

check out the story, if you’re interested in supporting us, hop over to iTunes, leave a review, thank you all very much and we appreciate you listening.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:02:15.6] LC: Welcome to this week’s episode, thank you all for joining in, again. Today we’ve

got Marcus Aurelius Anderson joining us from Oklahoma. Hey Marcus, how are you?

© 2017 Art of Authenticity �1

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[0:02:25.3] MAA: I’m phenomenal, how are you doing?

[0:02:27.3] LC: I’m good, I was just chatting before we hopped on about whether he uses his

full name, Marcus Aurelius but now I really feel I need to ask. What’s with Marcus Aurelius, are your parents into stoicism like where’s the origin of this name for you?

[0:02:46.0] MAA: The origin, my grandfather’s the one that named me and I don’t know if it was

one of those situations, most like with Johnny Cash with the boy named Zoo where if you name somebody this prolific figure, it almost forces them to reach that level but you know, I didn’t go

by that name as a child, it was, even as a child, I just went by Marc because she used to name Marcus to me seems so grown up and mature, you know?

I was just, Marc and then eventually as I got older, I could kind of, you know, I felt like I grew into

the name Marcus but I didn’t even use my full name until after I got injured because I didn’t feel that I was, those are big shoes, that’s a lot of expectations there.

[0:03:24.9] LC: Really, it’s like, you know, that’s a big name. I love it though, it’s a great name. I

really am excited we met through LinkedIn and your story was just instantly compelling and captivating and I want to catch the audience up so that they understand who we’re chatting with

and your life story little, because it’s just – it’s so inspiring.

If you could start with, you were in the military and you actually had an injury, could you take us through that experience and I know it’s in your bio but like, you were on the operating table and

you died twice, I mean, I’ve got a lot of questions there but if you could start with, yeah, this journey and how it began for you?

[0:04:12.4] MAA: Absolutely. I joined the military at the ripe old age of 38 years old.

[0:04:17.1] LC: My god.

[0:04:19.5] MAA: Yeah, I got a lot of that especially when I was in basic training and they’re like,

“What are you doing here?” A little bit of a background for that. My great uncle was – my great


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uncle and my father were my hugest male role models when I was growing up and my great

uncle was in special forces, he was in Vietnam.

He was a big influence on me where he kind of showed me the necessity of if you’re growing up in Oklahoma, you go hunting and things like that but he taught me about you know, respect,

honor, humility, of course my father reinforced those things as well.

My parents were divorced when I was younger, when I was eight but my great uncle really helped me with a lot of those things. He passed away and not long after that, I got divorced so

this happened when I was in Atlanta, Georgia, I was going to chiropractic school at life university at the time and I was also bartending so I was really – you know, my plate was really full, you’re

at a doctorate level, you know, course trying to do all these sciences and all those technical knowledge.

Then bartending is you know, that’s good money but it’s a difficult lifestyle if you allow it to get to

you so I wasn’t able to really – I was trying to do all my stuff to get through school so that I could get on with my life and my marriage.

Whenever I got divorced and then that injury, I mean, my uncle passed, those were two, you

know, it’s a very devastating one two combination there and I found myself sort of you know, asking myself a lot of questions as like man, I was having a hard time focusing in school.

You know, nothing really – I didn’t really seem to want to do anything it seem like and so –

[0:06:00.8] LC: What age were you at this point?

[0:06:04.1] MAA: I was 37 at that time.

[0:06:05.9] LC: 37.

[0:06:08.4] MAA: I had only been married for a few years and so I was like, “Well, this is the

age where you’re supposed to have everything figured out, you’re supposed to be married,


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you’re supposed to be out, you’re supposed to be doing all these things and you have, you

know, 2.5 kids and you have a car and all those stuff at that point.”

[0:06:24.1] LC: By the way, those people who all have that stuff , 60% get divorces and some huge number have midlife crisis but it’s funny how we feel like if don’t get there that we failed

somehow and then the people who get there are like, this isn’t what it’s supposed to be and they’re breaking out. I think there’s a deep irony to hearing your story which is the other side.

We’re typically listening to somebody who’s gotten married and this is way harder than I thought

and it’s not all slipping together. You’re 37 and yeah, this is all coming, crashing down and your life isn’t manifesting in the way that you believe it should be.

Does this cajole you forward and say, “you know what? I’m going to join the military?” How does

that decision get made?

[0:07:08.2] MAA: Yeah, just like you were saying, I guess I sort of front loaded my midlife crisis or I turned into it before but I had done martial arts since I was a kid, I started doing martial arts

when I was 11 and there’s always been that sort of martial mindset in my life and I don’t mean that I would go out and try to get into fights, nothing like that.

More on the lines of, there’s this kind of like warrior kind of spirit and this kind of code that you

try to live by and I kept finding myself wanting more and more things. I didn’t feel like I was getting a whole lot out of what I was doing, you know, I studying something and just like you

were saying, almost like that treadmill where you’re going through and you think.

“Okay, once I get to the next thing, now it’s going to make sense” and then it doesn’t and then you’re like “okay, I got a bachelor degree, I’m going to get a doctorate, well I’m going to do this.”

Just like you were preempting there.

[0:07:58.0] LC: Hedonic treadmill by the way. I’ve heard that before, it’s such a good one though, I just want to pause on that. That’s such a great term or phrase, right? It’s like, you keep

thinking that the next moment you’re going to have that pleasure point that you’re looking for.


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[0:08:11.9] MAA: We absolutely do, since we’re talking about that real fast, there was a

chiropractor when I was in college, his name was Dr. Hugo Gibson and he always made a very strong point, South African gentleman just phenomenal chiropractor and person in general and

he always said, you know, “Marcus, if you wait until you walk across that stage to feel like you’re a doctor then you’re too late.”

I grasped it immediately but it was so, just like you said, it was that almost professional hedonic

treadmill where it’s like, you have to believe now, you have to have that mindset now.

[0:08:47.9] LC: I’m laughing because first of all, the imitation was just spot on and I visualized this man, I don’t even know him but secondly, it’s like, also, those words, people try to tell you

and so many of us have been in situations where somebody said something really wise to us but we just didn’t, we couldn’t take it in almost or it’s so hard to understand until you’ve

experienced it and then you realized that it’s not what you think.

[0:09:13.1] MAA: That’s exactly it, you may hear the phrase or you may even understand it but then to be able to internalize it, take it in as your own personal wisdom and then like you say,

when everything happens, you hear that phrase booming in the back of your mind, you’re like –

[0:09:26.0] LC: That’s what the person meant. I went to graduate school and this person very – you know, 30 years older than me, he said, “Why are you going to graduate school in

philosophy” and I’m like, “Well, you know, I wanted to try it and see, I think I like it a lot and I thought this would work” and he’s like.

“If you’re not sure when you go to graduate school, it’s the worst mistake of your life” and I’m

like, “Wow, what an ass.” Then like a year later, I was like, :That was the best advice ever,” you know? Because grad school is a hundred million times harder.

I digress, you found yourself in this position and you’re in this hedonistic treadmill, you realize

that this is what’s going on. What is the sequence of events that lead you to make this decision?

[0:10:15.3] MAA: Ironically, I’ve never been drunk in my life, I don’t drink but as a bartender, especially in Atlanta, there is a tremendous, you know, it’s a tremendous lifestyle you can make


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plenty of money which was helping and was cool and all that and I found myself surrounded by

all these errors and all these things that we’re so superfluous and I think that you know, after going through those two kind of, the divorce and the death in the family.

It really made me want to just strip everything away and just kind of go to brass tax and sort of a

minimalist idea. I always want to join the military, always but you’re in school, you know, “I’ll wait till I get out. Well, now you’re married.”

Well, my wife probably doesn’t want me to go join the military and get shot at so there were all

these reasons. I’m divorced now, I have no kids, I have nothing holding me back. I thought, after my uncle passed, I was like, “I’ve always wanted to do what he had done to learn these things.”

I go down the recruiters sort of on a whim on my day off and I go talk to him and I sit down and

talk to him and he says, “Well, how old are you?” I told him, you know, how old I was, he’s like “Well, you know, the window is 35, you’re over the age.”

I just stood up and I turned around and I was like, “All right.” He’s like, “Come back and talk to

me” and I was very direct and I said, “You know, if I can’t get in, don’t waste my time,” you know? I’m trying to do something here and so we sat down and he kind of talked to me for a

minute, he’s like, “Well, at your age, why are you joining the military” and I explained to him and he said, “You look like you’re in shape,” he said, “Do you know you keep yourself in shape?”

I was like, “of course” and then he said, “Well, you know, do you have any education” and we

talked about that so he had me do a preliminary PT test there where he had me do pushups, sit-ups and run. I maxed it out immediately and he was like “Wow, okay.”

He said, “Here’s an asvab test.” Well, after doctorate level courses, and all these sciences and

all these behaviors, taking that asvab was pretty easy so he’s like “okay, you’ve maxed out the asvab, you’ve maxed out the PT test.”

[0:12:18.6] LC: For the audience, can you say what an asvab test is?


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[0:12:22.9] MAA: It’s basically just, they go through and it just tells you your skills and your level

of intelligence in certain categories are there being – math or there be science, whether it be reading comprehension.

That makes a big influence when you go into the military you know? You want a guy that

understands these things before he’s in charge of say, you know, like these huge missiles that could potentially go off and hurt people obviously. We did all that and he said “okay, well, you’re

doing all those stuff, you’re a natural leader,” he said, “you’re older, you’re mature.”

He said, “you know, I could sign a waiver to get you in,” he said, “but, you kind of have to tell me what you would like to do” and so after all that pretention, all that pretense. I said, “well, I want

to be in the infantry.”

He kind of smiled and he’s like, “listen,” he kind of laughed, he said, “you don’t understand.” He said, “you could – in the army, you can choose whatever job you want to do. If you want to go

into you know, computer security if you want to do all these things” and again, I kind of looked at him and I said, “this is what I want to do, this is the path that I want to take.

If I can’t take that path then I’m not going to sign any papers, I’m just going to leave right now.”

He kind of looked at me and he said, “Well, you know what? It’s your life and you can do whatever you will, I’m going to sign the release and we’ll go down and we’ll get you into the

military processes and see if you can pass all those things” and then in January in 2012, I went to basic training in Fort Benning Georgia and that was an entire physical litmus test in and of

itself I suppose.

[0:13:54.8] LC: Were you at any point like, “what have I done?”

[0:14:01.6] MAA: If you’ve ever seen full metal jacket where they’re yelling and screaming at

you when you get off the bus and all that stuff. I went in with that mentality, I wasn’t expecting that so mentally I was very strong and prepared and nothing can prepare you for basic.


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Especially in the infantry, the infantry is your very gung ho straight forward let’s go out and do

this kind of lifestyle but I was fine with it. I knew that it was going to be difficult, again, I’ve been conditioned mentally since I was 11 for the martial arts.

It definitely was, they shock you, they deprive you, they push you way beyond where you think

you can go but what helped me was, seeing these 20 year old guys next to me, I knew that physically I wasn’t in the same shape that they were you know, as it were. But, what helped me

was my mind. I knew that it was basically a big mind game.

I knew that I was strong enough to do this, I knew that I could do this and within the first week, I understood that if I didn’t break my ankle or you know, hurt my shoulder or something, you

know, that it would actually make me physically unable to continue that I could do this. That’s what helped me a lot I believe.

[0:15:10.7] LC: My God. I mean, what was that movie with Goldie Hawn, Benjamin, Private

Benjamin. I’m like, I would be like her and make it about 20 minutes, somebody would scream at me, I think I’d be like you know, either screaming back or getting on the bus and leaving.

Thank God there’s people like you who can endure this stuff and help protect this country. I just

am the literal opposite, I’m so grateful, this would have been a time of relative peace.

You know something? I just think there is a temperament to this stuff, right? I think people are – some people are just really put on earth to be healers and some people you know, you’ve been

doing martial arts your whole life and you know, the military mindset really resonates with you.

You find yourself in here, you’re 38 years old, you’re actually holding your own with 20 year old’s which is crazy. I mean, your martial arts must be paying off in spades here. There’s got to be

some genetics to this too, right? Some people are just are able to stay in shape and incredibly in their life but whatever the case, you’re deployed and you find yourself with a spinal injury? How

long were you deployed, when did that happen?

[0:16:29.5] MAA: Well, to clarify, I was not deployed, we were preparing to deploy. We were preparing to deploy and that’s where all the training was.


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[0:16:34.4] LC: I’m sorry.

[0:16:35.3] MAA: No, that’s okay. I’ve gotten that before, I think that in the Ted X talk, when I say, if I have been deployed when I was injured to try to give like some context but I wasn’t

deployed, we were preparing to deploy, I was at Fort Drone and upstate New York and they were telling us as soon as I got there, you know, I got through basic, I got there and they’re like,

“listen, we’re deploying.”

Temp mountain is a very illustrious unit, they – if you’ve ever seen the movie Black Hawk Down or read the book, those were the guys that were there, they were fighting alongside special

forces and rangers and all that.

They were a phenomenal unit and the training that I got in basic training, I was like, “once I’m through this, I’m good and then I can do that unit” and I was just like, “it’s a whole other level up

here,” right?

Again, they push you and you go beyond that plateau and you’re serving with men that have – there was literally my squad for example have been deployed. He had been in deployment, his

time and service for deployment alone was longer than a lot of people who had been in the military their careers.

I was very grateful and thankful that I had people around me like that because you know,

military training is one thing, military combat is another and taking theory out of a book and then applying it in the real world when there’s bullets flying or when other people’s lives are on the

line, that’ san entirely different animal and so having that real world experience was tremendous.

They kept telling us, you know, “we’re going to deploy” so you’re preparing and you’re training

and you got that mentality that we’re going to deploy soon. People talk about motivation but there is no greater motivations than knowing that if you are not in shape or if you are not

prepared that not only could die but the people that you are serving with.


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You know, their lives could depend on whether you’re hydrated or not or whether you’re in

shape or not or whether you have enough, you know, of your equipment with you. It gives you a tremendous amount of focus and at least that’s the way I looked at it. I looked at it as a big

challenge.

[0:18:31.7] LC: Well you know, we bring on so many people on to the show and it’s making me think about you know, the amount of times we just discussed things like you know, fear and fear

of failure and fear of approvals and that we go into states, flight and to manage the fears and most of us are talking about sending out a blog post, right?

We’re talking about whether or not like we’re going to have to face rejection because we spoke

our truth. It’s funny how, we were designed to have these systems intact for these real world experiences that you’re walking in to and yet our bodies can sometimes give us that

manifestations in the most objectively straight forward situations, right?

Where nobody’s in mortal danger but what you’re explaining, it sounds so similar to how people feel and you know, moments when they’re not in mortal danger.

You know, it’s like our bodies are designed to be able to step up in those moment and bring that

adrenaline, focus you in.

[0:19:31.2] MAA: I absolutely agree but just like you’re saying, it’s two sides of the same coin, whenever I’m in an adrenal state, my cognition is not very high, right? I’m simply going through

muscle memory or I’m pushing forward from physical capacity so just like you said, while we have fear of putting out that blog post or putting out that book.

That’s fine but you know, it is still very real and it’s all relative, adversity is relative to everybody

so whether it be you know, again, I like to tell people that because some people will say “wow, your story’s amazing and I feel like I’m not going through a lot by comparison.”

Well, you may not be but again, it’s not a competition, we have an adversity scale as the way I

look at it. For me for example, my adversity scale to 10 which is the worst is I guess dying and being paralyzed and zero is where I mean before and there’s nothing, but what we have to do is


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we have to figure out where our 10 is, where our eight is and then allow ourselves to look at

what we’re doing.

At that blog post, it feels like it’s a 10 and you’re facing that adversity, give yourself credit, don’t deny that, don’t lessen that because until we can push to those points, it’s not really going to

make us grow.

[0:20:46.5] LC: Yeah, and also our bodies just, they trick us into thinking those situations are as serious as being in mortal danger. I mean, we’re designed to literally run from bears and bushes

and our brain sometimes you know, conflate.

You know, a real life or death moment with low post, right? I felt completely paralyzed in fear from things where I’m not actually in danger but it’s our – our brains have a funny way of

interpreting the world sometimes.

[0:21:18.0] MAA: You’re right. I think that it was Churchill that said, when I was in my – I forgot the age but when he was earlier in his age, he feared what everybody thought, when he got to

his middle ages, he didn’t care what anybody thought and then when he got older, he realized that nobody cared what he did anyway.

It was again that wisdom that kind of helped him see that you know, we are our own worst critic

in a lot of ways and that’s just the nature of the way we are. Now that can obviously push us to get better but I agree, it’s…

You know, if somebody cuts you off in traffic and all of a sudden that adrenaline dumps in your

system and you want to follow them and give them a piece of your mind, we have to understand that in the grand scheme of things, it really does not matter and the grand scheme of things, the

fact that you weren’t in an accident and now you get to get on with your day is more important than what that person was thinking at that moment.

[0:22:08.6] LC: Yup, absolutely. How did you end up with an injury at this point? What

transpired?


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[0:22:19.6] MAA: It was interesting because there was no specific method of onset and in

upstate New York in January, you know, you’re 30 miles south of the Canadian border, you’re not far from like Ontario so you get the leg effect, you get the mountain effect which means,

precipitation is constant.

When it’s cold, that means snow is constant. As always, snowing is always icy, it’s cold where you’re at, up north, yeah?

[0:22:43.1] LC: Yeah, Chicago is you know.

[0:22:45.2] MAA: Yup. You guys get it too. Yeah, it’s the same thing. Once the snow starts

falling in October, that same snow is going to be on the ground until May. I was having all the symptomatology when I look back and I can see that my hands were cold a lot. My feet were

cold a lot.

I thought to myself, well, it’s because we’re doing, you know, you’re training for two weeks at a time out in the middle of the elements because as an infantry man, that’s what you do. You have

to be conditioned for that. When you would put on a hundred pounds on your back for a rock march and you’re marching 20 miles and my hands and feet would get cold, I just thought all

these exposures.

I would always check my fingers and my feet for frostbite and a lot of times, but then the week that I actually was when it became abundantly clear was that week, that Monday, the training

was difficult and then the next morning when I went to get up, I had a hard time getting up.

Then, it continued getting worse and worse until eventually I woke up and I went to roll out of bed and when I tried to roll, my neck would move to the left, it would articulate a little bit but my

body wouldn’t move. I said, “man, I must be really sore” but it was not that, I just could not give my muscles to fire and it was –

That’s when I started realizing that there was something seriously wrong and I’m trying to move

my hands, I’m trying to move my feet, I’m trying to move anything. I realized that I can’t move anything like that.


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That’s when probably the most afraid I’ve ever been in my entire life because it just washes over you like this heat, this fire, this fear that you cannot do anything, it’s like, if you’ve ever been a

kid and you had a dream where you’re being chased by something and you can’t move, is that feeling and the physical manifestation.

[0:24:37.3] LC: Unbelievable. You’re watching all this happen as it’s starting to unfold and you

know in your soul in those moments, right? That something’s deeply wrong.

[0:24:48.2] MAA: That’s it, because again, like we’ve been talking about the training men and how strong the mind is to condition the body. I was always mentally I can – told myself that even

during the rock march for example, we would take a knee to face out which just means we would take a knee to take a break but you would still condition yourself to be ready to fight if you

need it to.

When I try to get off that knee, I took everything in me, I literally had to push off with my hand on my rifle to stand back up and that’s when I realized that something was going on. When they

were able to get me out of the room and they sent me to the hospital, they didn’t, you know, we get in the hospital and they’ve got half a dozen people that are running with the gurney.

It’s just like something out of a movie and it would have been really neat to watch it outside of

myself but at the time when you’re the guy lying on the gurney and they’re talking about you as if you're not there and you have a cardiologist and you have a neurologist just looking at you

and you’re running you down there to get you in the MRI to check out what’s going on.

They found out that the disk in my neck at C5 had ruptured and there’s people that have had you know, bulges or ruptures in their disks but I don’t think people understand what it truly is and

what had happened was that disk could have exploded from all of the compression and all of the training and all of the attrition from all the physical activity and it exploded so it pushed into

the back of my spinal cord and your spinal cord is a very delicate structure , it’s like a bunch of really delicate pieces of silk or rubber bands together.


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It only takes 10 millimeters of mercury of pressure to compromise that and that is about the

weight of a dime.

[0:26:28.2] LC: Really?

[0:26:29.9] MAA: Right, that’s from chiropractor school. I learned all that from neurology and from chiropractor school, again, the irony, how everything comes together so I know exactly

where – why this is going on and now it all makes sense, not that it would make it any better but I was like, “Okay, I could understand anatomically why” and they would always explain to us that

the disks in your neck had the consistency, it’s like a jelly donut.

The inside of the disk is called the nucleus papulosis. The nucleus on the outside is called the nucleus fibrosis but all it means is the inside is like a jell structure, the outside of it is like strong

but it has the consistency and density of a hockey puck.

Imagine the hockey puck with all kinds of pressure pushing on to this really delicate structure of your spinal cord. Like Christopher Reeve for example, that’s the area that he was at whenever

he was paralyzed.

There’s no cerebral spinal fluid that’s able to move to communicate down below that level and so they say, that’s what’s going on so that’s what we’re going to go ahead and do. The pressure

was tremendous on there and so when they shuttle me down to the – because that’s when they –

Again, there’s part of me that’s hoping, it’s going to sound silly but there’s a part of me that’s

like, “Well, I hope this doesn’t take long because we’re going to be deploying soon and I’ve got a team of guys, you know, that are waiting for me to go” and because that’s where my priorities

were at that time, you know?

[0:27:46.9] LC: Right, you’re still a no man, still processing like, “this isn’t happening, I’ve got to get back to my real life.”


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[0:27:52.8] MAA: That’s it, I was hoping that they could just give me a shot or do whatever they

need to do because I got stuff to do guys.

[0:27:58.9] LC: They take you in for surgery? I’m fascinated by this because I’m I don’t know. These stories of people who are in surgeries and have near death experiences and – did you

have any, you almost died twice, did you have any of these near-death experiences, were there any white lights?

Was there any, or is it, were you not somebody who experienced any of that?

[0:28:21.9] MAA: For me, and before I say any of this, I respect everybody’s experience with

this because each person’s an individual and each person has a different biochemistry so Jennine Shepherd. I love her, she is amazing and she had a huge out of body experience and

she was elevating over her body, she could see everything but then you look at a person like Josh Mans who actually flat lined for 15 minutes.

He was physically dead and they were able to bring him back. Their experiences are both polar

opposite of one another, all I can tell you is what I had and all I can tell you is what I saw, what I experienced was I count it down from 100.

They put the anesthesia on me and then I was just very cold and very dark and that’s the only

thing that I felt, there’s all kinds of you know, chemicals that are released and t here’s all kinds of neurological reactions that happen.

Perhaps I didn’t have enough anesthesia, maybe I had too much, whatever the case may be, I

didn’t experience anything that was this huge tremendous out of body experience, I didn’t see lights, I didn’t see diets or angels but then I just remember waking up in the ICU and being very

confused because again, I was like in my – “am I in my room was this all a big dream, should I be in formation right now? What’s going on?”

They had me in a neck brace and before the operation, I was outside the room and it’s very

scary because you have probably a dozen people out there waiting for you and when you need a dozen people just to work on one person, that’s not a good sign.


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I was still very nervous and I hadn’t been in the hospital since I was, you know, I’ve had stitches or whatever but never had to be in the hospital for a life or death situation and they were

explaining to me, listen, this person is here just sort of overlapping cover for this person.

It made me feel very comfortable and confident and that’s when I was like, “Okay,” they explained to me what was going on and so in my mind I’m like, whenever you, because we’re

going to do a discectomy is what they said they’re going to remove the disk, they put a bunch of metal in my neck to defuse my cervical.

So that that area would be stable and I said, “Whenever you remove this then I’ll be able to walk

again, right?” Then silence. Nobody wants to answer and so that’s when I started getting nervous again and they’re like, “Listen, you know, there is some damage and it’s probably

permanent but don’t worry about that right now, let’s just get to the surgery.”

You know, we’re going to do this and then we’ll worry about the recovery thereafter. I didn’t see anything extraordinary when I passed but the irony is, when I look back on it now, it was

extraordinary because regardless of what people believe or don’t believe in a religious capacity and again, I respect everybody’s beliefs but for me, having that situation and thinking that

maybe this is all that we have is this day, this moment, this life.

That gives me a tremendous amount of urgency more so than I’ve every felt in my entire existence.

[0:31:18.2] LC: I can imagine and you come out of this to find out that people are saying that

you won’t walk, use your hands and you say that you were left with a choice, you could either, I really find that this is so spot on to not something as extreme to the situation you face but I think

people again experience this on you know, day to day moments or situations that aren’t as intense as the one that you’re facing.

But this choice of staying angry, playing a victim or changing mentally and moving forward and,

there’s something in positive psychology, I don’t know if you check out Shawn Anchor that much


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but they talk about learn helplessness that yeah, when people don’t see, for the people out

there who haven’t heard this.

It’s this theory that if you don’t see a way up, you stay down. If you’ve ever been on a see saw at the playground and you remember being a kid and you maybe weighed 50 pounds and a kid

who’s like 90 jumps on the other side and holds you up in the air, your older sibling does that to you. You don’t think there’s a way to ever get out of that situation.

Shawn Anchor’s point is that there’s always a way if you believe there’s a way that this idea of

learned helplessness that you just no longer believe that there’s any options and so he goes into all sorts of ways that we can mentally reframe situations to change the perspective and feel

as if we have an alternative but basically, I hear your story and it really makes me think at the core of it is this question of anger and remaining a victim or you know, taking every opportunity

you can to see if there’s a chance to get to the other side of this.

Would you say that that’s really, this sort of foundation of this statement you make and what did you do mentally to get to the other side?

[0:33:25.1] MAA: I would agree with you entirely, that phrase from my TED X talk where I say I

could either be a victim or I could change my mentality.

That’s a very enlightened statement but the reality is, it took me a few, I was in a bed unable to move for months for three months and there’s a very – that’s why I talk about adversity so much

now because if you and I don’t have this mentality now before that moment at the heat of battle as it were.

If we don’t already have this made up mind when we get there and whenever we are under

pressure and their adrenaline does release and we feel that fear, we feel that sympathetic nervous system release. We won’t be able to act that way and even if we have the mentality

before.

We may still cower and run away from it. It’s very important to have this fortitude before we get in the situations and again, I look back at my childhood and all the things that happen, the


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martial arts, you know, my father, my uncle, all these strong male role models that they showed

me.

That sometimes, all you have to do is make up your mind that you’re just going to keep putting one foot in front of the other, that you are simply not going to stop, that you are simply going to

not accept this for what it is.

The hardest part though was being in that situation where I couldn’t move because I went to the five stages at crease. I went through okay denial, I went through anger, you know, I’m not afraid

to tell you that – I’m not proud of it but if I was physically able, I would have taken my own life at that point because I went from being at this very high functioning, you know, elite soldier in this

unit to not be able to even move.

That is, I can’t think of a different, that’s a huge –

[0:35:13.3] MAA: Yeah, because your identity is really wrapped up and your physicality and your sense of full life, right? Absolutely You’re only as good as your last shot or as your last

punch or kick or run or whatever it is.

When you’re living in that kind of lifestyle and then identity’s taken from you, it really shakes you to your foundation. Having said all that, once I went to sort of those stages and here’s the

difference.

If you were in an airplane and you drop me off on a dessert island and you say, “Marcus, in 24 hours, I’m going to come back and pick you up.” I’m going to have a different mindset because

in my mind, I think, “Well, I just have to wait until noon tomorrow and then war is going to come get me.”

If you drop me off at a dessert island, you say Marcus, “I’m never coming back, you had to

figure it out on your own,” that’s when you have the shift because if I know that you’re going to come back tomorrow. All I have to do is fight off all the critters and find a little bit of water and I

can survive. It’s going to be a rough night but I’ll make it but when I realize that now, this is permanent, this is my reality.


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And I have to work within the confines of what this is, it changes your entire mindset and it forces you to start making different decisions, instead of making a short term decision to just get

through it, now you’re thinking,” this is what the reality is, what am I going to do now?”

Those are the questions that we have to ask ourselves whether it be in life, in our profession, in our relationships, in our purpose, all these things.

[0:36:35.1] LC: It’s so funny you’re making me think of the interview we did with Kute, he wrote

a book called You Are The One and he says, no one’s coming to save you, right? Sort of, you’re in this very extreme situation to give us this life lesson but for all of us in all of our moments, you

know, we feel as if the world is going to come and save us or something’s going to happen but you have to save yourself.

You have to turn inward and look for those internal resources and that’s not to say that you can’t

have people help you along the way but if it doesn’t start with you and you don’t have that fire within yourself, it doesn’t matter how many resources you really have in front of you. Would you

agree with that?

[0:37:13.6] MAA: I absolutely agree and for better and for worst, the reality is pain and discomfort are the best teachers.

[0:37:21.4] LC: Yeah, get to your leverage up and gets you motivated, you have to find it yeah.

[0:37:25.9] MAA: Yeah, it does. If you forget to bring your lunch to school when you’re a kid, of

course you’re not going to go hungry. You know somebody is going to take care of you but just that initial feeling of, “Oh I don’t have my lunch because I am not prepared”, now that’s an

extreme example but it’s true and like you were saying before, if we had this condition response where we learn helplessness or we live a reactionary lifestyle all the time and we’re constantly

living in fear, it’s impossible for us to really do the things that we need to do.

So again having that idea that I’m the one that got myself into this, I’m the one that have to get myself out of it and that was what I – because for the first few months I would just sit there and


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they would turn on whatever is on the TV or whatever but then when I came to the point where I

was just angry at everybody, at myself, I just turn it off. I just want to lay here in bed and just let me think and that’s when I went through the really dark phase of, “Okay if this is the reality and

this is what I have, what do I do?”

If this is the reality, if this is all I do have what can I do with this? What is the mentality that I have to engage? That’s what I have to – in my TED X talk I talk about that where I say you know

I had to make that decision. Okay, I had to be grateful and everybody talks about being grateful and everybody talks about gratitude and that’s fine but to read it, an inspirational quote is one

thing but to actually live it and to engage it and to have that mentality and I couldn’t find anything to be grateful for.

Because the first one, you know oh well you’re alive. Well you know what? I’m existing, I’m not

really living right now. I’m just in a bed taking up space. I am turning oxygen into carbon dioxide. That’s all I am doing right now and I would rather be dead than do that because I am not

contributing not only to myself or to my team but to the world or to anything. Then I thought, okay, well the only other good point that I can come up with and this took a while was luckily I

didn’t happen when I was deployed.

Luckily nobody else got kills because of it and then that’s what I had, that was the cornerstone. That was the foundation, once I had that one small thing to be grateful for then I could build.

When we build a wall, we don’t say “I’m going to build a wall”. We lay one brick perfectly and then we lay another brick perfectly and then before you know it we have a wall but if we’re

looking at this big things, it’s really a bunch of small things put together.

[0:39:58.2] LC: Absolutely and it’s like gratitude and positive thinking. It drives me insane if I hear one more gratitude journal because it’s going into this concept of consumption in my mind

where I go on Instagram. I look at a quote, I feel good for a moment and then I feel as if I am practicing some kind of real self-help but that’s like looking at a magazine for fitness and not

going for a jog. You have to feel the gratitude. You have to actually embody it in your body and you can’t just –


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You know I used to do it where I’d say “I am happy for my house, I’m happy for my” – you know

it’s total bullshit. I didn’t feel that way right? I was just listing things because it sounded good and so until you find things deeply within you that you say yes actually I have this bottle of water

here right now and I am deeply grateful for it. I was really thirsty and it’s so nice that I have this. Whatever it is that you actually feel a sense of gratitude towards and it doesn’t need to be this

big ticket items.

Like you said, it can be something as small as I didn’t have this happen and hurt anybody else and okay this is the first thing and let me build from there. So you have a new book coming out.

It might even be out when this airs October. The Gift of Adversity, you talk about adversity as a gift, you talk about your story, overcoming adversity and it’s really a lot of inspiring lessons for

leadership, personal development entrepreneurship but can you share with the audience.

For people out there who struggle which so many people I have been here many times in my life where you just want to give up. You just want to say you know, it’s not worth it or I don’t care or

my life doesn’t matter, I’ll never figure it out or nobody cares about me, whatever way you speak to yourself but there is a sense of giving up. There is a sense of in the most extreme case right?

Here you are sitting at a hospital bed and everybody would say well I get that, right?

But most of us it’s happening on these micro or situational basis in our life how would you suggest somebody start. So I heard you say you know beginning with gratitude and finding

something and what would be the next step or what are some other thoughts that you can share?

[0:42:29.2] MAA: We discussed earlier how I mentioned that they always talk about gratitude.

They always talk about it’s not that people lack time. It’s not that they lack money. It’s that they lack priorities and again, we can make a to-do list and we can make a priority list but most

people make that list with no intention of actually making it. I mean they would like for it to happen but are they actually acting on it. Are they actually doing the work to get there?

So adversity is the ultimate form of accountability so as a coach you know I deal with people all

the time. It’s the same thing where it’s one thing to create something but it is another thing to keep that person accountable. It’s easy to want to stay on your diet when you are excited but


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then when you look into it and you’re really tempted to eat this thing that you are not supposed

to eat you lose that or when you get up in the morning and you don’t feel like working out.

So it’s not about inspiration per say because that’s leading at passage short sighting and like you were saying if I go to Instagram to find motivational quotes which I do that and I put things

up on my Instagram that are inspirational but it’s more to keep you accountable because like what you were saying before it’s almost like a form of dependency. If I have to get a motivational

quote to get me to do this thing that I know I should be doing or this thing that I claim as a priority but it really isn’t then I’m probably not doing the right thing.

Just like you said with grad school yeah? You have to be doing it for the right reasons. So

something simple that I do with my people is there’s a lot of people that say, “I think about the three things that I am grateful for”. When I brush my teeth at night I even do that because it

keeps me that programs me to think about that. What I do is I give them I say, “Listen I want you to think about three things today that you overcame”. I want you to think of three micro-

adversities that you came with today that you overcame.

So if you woke up in the morning and you didn’t want to hit snooze but you didn’t guess what? Check the box, you got that. It could be something as simple as that. Like you said with the

glass of water. If you didn’t feel like working out but you did and you look back on the fact and you’re happy that you did absolutely. If you’re glad that you ate that apple instead of that

Danish, there it is those are three things and those are things that keep you and that does two things.

I found one, it makes that person realize that this is the way that they can create that fortitude

mentally but two, if that happened yesterday, those are my three things that I was grateful for and then I wake up this morning and I say to myself, you know what? I know that I am capable

of a lot more of just getting out of bed and not hitting snooze. I know I am capable of a lot more than just going to work or showing up at the gym.

I’m going to try to go beyond that today. I’m going to try to push myself to go beyond that today.

So there is a fine balance between calling somebody emotionally and saying, “Oh there, there. It’s okay that you are not doing what you say that you want to do and keeping that person


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accountable without just trying to because like we said, it’s easy to beat ourselves up but there

is a temperament that is requisite if you want to accomplish anything in your life.

So like what you are doing there is no way that you could have had 100 phenomenal conversations on your podcast unless you put in the work, unless you are organized, unless you

made sacrifices, unless you made priorities.

[0:45:42.9] LC: Yeah and I do what you’re talking about. I call it celebrating the wins but it was life changing because I was one of those people. I had a list, lists, list, I had lists on my lists, I

had wish list, I had priority list because I had a company, we had the active list, we had the inactive list, we had the wish list which is endless lists and then you just feel like you are behind

all the time right. I can’t get ahead and I would just panic because I would forget something and every day you worked so hard.

But it didn’t matter because there was more to do and you didn’t get that list well but there’s no

way to win right? The list is never ending, so when I flipped it to what you are talking about and you focus on what you win, the wins right? You focus on the part that you did get done and you

keep reminding yourself of all the things you’re getting done and then challenging yourself to do more and you feel good then you want to do more than that and it’s so many people.

I don’t know if you hear this Marcus but so many people will reply with yeah but the negative

voice in my head that tells me I’m always behind and it’s never good enough motivates me and I always say well yeah in a very short term until it eats you alive and then you’re miserable right?

So I mean okay, it’s one way to get there but you know people were they’re going to lose their edge if they feel good about the things that they are getting done versus focusing on the parts

that they are not. Do you find that to be true?

[0:47:10.7] MAA: I absolutely find that to be true and the definition of anxiety is choosing not to choose right? So like you said if you are over stimulated and you’re bombarded by all of these

lists and all of these things to do, you’re going to a point like you say where it futile. “Why am I even doing this? I’m not getting anything accomplished.” If everything is a priority then nothing is

a priority. So what I did like we were talking about before, when I was learning to walk again, it was brutal.


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I feel down a lot, a lot but if I would have focused on all the times I feel down it would have been beat me up but every time I would get back to my room and I was like you know what I got

closer to taking that step today. I got closer to bringing my foot up over that first step today. That’s what I did I extenuated the positive but I also get myself accountable.

[0:47:58.5] LC: So powerful. I hope everybody is catching this. I am having like an Oprah aha

moment but it’s you know, I can envision you sitting there and trying to walk and the pain and the suffering and I can see one person falling down for the whatever time that day right? I can’t

even imagine and then laying there and just saying it’s not worth it, I quit right? But if you focus on each time that you got back up and you tag that and you say okay well I did that today.

So what can I do tomorrow? What a difference right? And if we apply that to our lives with all the

things we have going on, you know that’s the difference. That’s what keeps us moving forward because it’s the emotion forward that awe that brings us that happiness. It’s not necessarily the

goal that we think we’re so you know in your case it is the goal. You’d definitely want to be walking right? But for the rest of us it’s like you know these goals that we set they are never

ending. We always set new one.

[0:48:53.4] MAA: That’s what it is and that’s why we have to enjoy the moment. We have to be grateful for the moment, absolutely. We have to live for this moment because we don’t know

when it’s going to be gone, even in Zen, when they breathe, whenever they’re meditating, you know, you breathe in and you breathe out and that’s what the form of meditation is.

Your mind goes everywhere, you bring it back to this moment and that’s the active meditation

but if you think about every day as being this breath in and you focus on that and then the breath out, that keeps you accountable.

The other thing that you know, technology is amazing and I’m 45 now so, I grew up in a time

before technology, pre-imposed technology so when I couldn’t do anything else, when I couldn’t get on the phone, when I couldn’t get on the internet and just surf and look at stuff to keep me

intellectually distracted or pacified.


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I had no choice but to minimalize and think about this stuff that I had to think about at that time

which was it was like laser like focus on recovering. I still try to apply that today because even now, I find myself, “okay, you had this book deadline,” “okay, you had this interview,” “okay,

you’re doing the speaking engagement here,” I had a call at this time, by the way, “do you still want to maintain relationship with this person or with your family?

Are you working out, are you teaching or are you doing martial arts?” It’s about that balance and

just like I said earlier, if everything’s a priority then nothing’s a priority.

Sit down, figure out what’s truly a priority, ask yourself, are you going to be willing to endure that adversity to do that, are you going to give up some of these other things to make this thing

happen?

Once you’ve done that and you eventuate those things, you’ll be amazed at what happens because you minimalize the distraction and that’s key.

[0:50:32.5] LC: Yup, I love it Marcus, I feel like I could just chat with you all day, we’re going up

on an hour here, I want to get it in for the audience before we have to close this incredible interview and all this inspiration that you shared with us. What does an authentic life mean to

you?

[0:50:49.9] MAA: An authentic life comes from understanding what you truly want, what’s truly your priority and then allowing your actions to reflect that. If you want to know what a person

believes, you observe their actions not their words.

I’m living my life on my own terms now, making the biggest impact on as many people as I possibly can with the quality that I provide and then I’m continuing to do that and enjoying every

moment of it.

[0:51:10.7] LC: I love it and for people who are interested in checking out you, finding out more about your book, where can they find you?


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[0:51:18.6] MAA: You can find me where you found me on LinkedIn,

@marcusaureliusanderson. If you go to marcusaureliusanderson.com you’ll find information on there as well, Ted X talk, the get to the adversity is on YouTube, I’m on Instagram under the

same handle, twitter as well.

My book, The Gift of Adversity will be out on Halloween, the 31st and I’m just so happy that we got to talk, I really enjoyed myself for.

[0:51:43.3] LC: Thank you, I really enjoyed myself as well. Thank you for coming on the show.

[0:51:47.0] MAA: Thank you.

[END]


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