Amor de Cosmos petitions Prime Minister John A Macdonald re: suppressing Chinese immigration in the House of Commons, May 12, 1882.

De Cosmos, Amor. “Suppressing Chinese Immigration.” House of Commons Debates. Canada. Parliament. House of Commons. 4th Parl., 4th sess. 1882. (Pages 1476 to 1478)

COMMONS DEB.ATES. MAY 12,down at a late period of the Session when late sittings arenecessary, and when the official reporters are tired out, sothat it is impossible to discuss them, and impossible for theBlansard reporters to report fully the speeches of hon. gen-tlemen on bot b sides, on subjects which they consider as veryimportant. It is impossible to report them in such a wayas to have the views of hon. members conveyed to thecountry through the medium of the official reports. Theothor evening, as an instance, I had the honor to makesome remarks on a subject of immense importance to myown county. I spoke, perhaps, for half an hour, and spokepurely to the question before the House, as the leader ofthe Government knows. I referred to the comparative neces-sity of providing public buildings of a certain kind in myown county. I spoke on the subject with considerableearnestness, and I thought with considerable force, but inthe Bansard report there was not a single word of whatI said on that occasion. That may have been all right.I know, at the same time, that remarks made by hon.gentlemen opposite, and the criticisms of members of theGovernment who did not agree with me entirely, were notreported. I cnly refer to the matter to show that speechesmade in the early part of the day may be thoroughly re-ported, while, owing to the Government's delay in bringingdown important measures, and the consequent lateness of thesittings, there are many speeches that cannot be reproducedin the pages of Blansard.

Motion agreed to.

Mr. STEPHENSON moved that the third report of theSelect Committee appointed to supervise the debates of thelouse be adopted.

Mr. BLAKE. Is that the report with reference to thecontracts.

Mr. STEPHENSON. Yes.

Mr. BLAKE.us some idea ofinvolved in these

I think the hon. gentleman should givethe comparative cost of the service as

changes.

Mr. STEPHENSON. The same contracter las the con-tract for the composition as this year, but the compositionwill be 60 cents instead of 40 cents a thousand; the presswork per token is 30 cents; folding per sheet one-tenth ofa cent; alterations per hour, 25 cents; extra copies ofspeeches per thousana, 75 cents; the binding is less than itwas before, being 90 cents per volume; the translationcosts $1.75 per page, compared with $2.50 under the presentcontract.

Mr. MACKENZIE. The composition seems high.fr. STEPHENSON. The hon. member must bear in

mind that the work is all night work, and if we are to havethe daily issue of the Bansard laid on the Table of the Houseat three o'clock every day, we need not expect to get thecomposition done for the ordinary day rate. The regulartrade rates in the city are, I believe, 33J cents a thousand,and wben you take into consideration-to use a printers'phrase- that there is no "fat " in this matter, that it is all"solid" matter, I think the price cannot be regarded asexcessive, considering the rate paid to printers for ordinaryday work. Moreover, there was only one tender put in,which we did not accept on its first presentation ; but wehad a conference with them and arranged prices and terms,so that they are made the most satisfactory we could possiblymake them, and I think they will be satisfactory to the Houseand the country.

Mr. BLAKE. Does the hon. gentleman say that thegeneral result is that the cost of the service remains thesame.

Mr. STEPHENSON. About the same.Mr. KILLAM.

CHINESE IMMIGRATION.Mr. DECOSMOS. Chinese immigration appears likely to

become a very seriuus matter. From time to time, the questionof Chinese immigration into the Province of British Columbiabas been brouglit before th House; from time to time, theLegislative Assembly of that Province passed resolutionsand sent Addre:-ses to the Governor General, asking theGovernment here to take some neasures to stop the flow ofChinese laborers into that Province; but, up to the presentmoment, no action has been taken by the Governmentwhatever. A recent telegram, however, brings the mattermore forcibly under our notice, and it is a matter of prettygencral comment by the press throughout the Dominion,that the Chinese are flowing into British Columbia in suchnumbers as to prove destructive, in ail probability, to whitelabor. A telegram, dated Victoria, May 9th, states:

" 24,009 Chinese in ail are expected before August. The Chinese inthe Province will number 32,000, and will outnumber the wbites."

Now, Sir, when we recollect that the United 'StatesGovernment recently enacted a law to prohibit theimmigration of Chinese laborers for ton years; thatalong the coast of Mexico there is little or no employ-ment for Chinese; that when we come to the CentralAmerican States, there is none, or very little ; thatwhen wo go to New Grenada, Peru, and Chili, we find thatthere is little or nothing for them to do; that when we crossthe ocean to the Hawaiian Kingdom, we find that they aredriving out the native population, and the other populationtoo; that when we go to the Australian colonies, we findthat the colony of Queensland bas for some years had twoActs on its Statute-book, sanctioned by Her Majesty'sGovernment, in order to keep out the Chinese-one of whichimposes a poll-tax of £10 sterling on every Chinaman whoenters the country, and the other a tax of £3 sterling onevery Chinaman who enters the mines-we can easily under-stand that these countries are vigorously protecting them-selves against Chinese immigration. Last December, Iwrote to the Agent-General of New South Wales in London,and I received the following reply:-

" WUsTUINIsTER CHABERs,"VICTORIA STRET, 9th January, 1882.

SDEIAR SiR,-In reply to your note of the 16th ultimo, asking for acopy of New South Wales Act respecting Chinese immigration, I regretmy inability to comply with your request. There has not been time forcopies to reaeb me from the colony. Immediately I receive them I shallhave great pleasure in sending a copy for your acceptance. I know bya newspaper telegram that a poll-tax of £10 bas been determined upon,and that ships arriving in the colony are not allowed to carry more inproportion to tonnage than, I believe, one for every one hundred tons.

'l am, dear Sir,"Yours very truly,

'lSAUL SAMUELS,"Agent-Generaljor New South Wa4es."

The great object of the Chinese in coming to BritishColumbia will be, failing to get employment there, to maketheir way across the border to the Uuited States. TheUnited States, however, by the recent Act bas prohibitedthem. The New York Times of May 9th, states :

" The President has signed the new Bill to suspend the immigrationof Chinese laborers for a period of ten years. It is to be hoped thatthis will settle the much-vexed Chinese question for a time at least.The Bill was drawn with special reference to the objections raised bythe President in bis message disapproving the first Bill passed by Con-gress. As it now stands, the law suspends the immigration of Chineselaborers, whether skilled or unskilled, or employed in mining. It pro-vides for a system of certificates, to be issued on the identification ofChinese persons now living in this country, or who may hereafter arrivehere under provisions of the law authorizing them to come. Thenaturalization of all Chinese is expressly forbidden. Various fines andpenalties are imposed upon the masters of vessels who shal bringunauthorized Chinese persons in this coantry, and upon any who shallforge, alter or make fraudulent use of the certificates to be issued toChinese who are allowed residence in the United States. The Bill, as ithas become a law, does not infringe upon any of the rights of China asdefined in existing treaties. The people of California will probably-besatisfied with all its features, unless they may object to the shortness ofthe term during which immigration is to be spended."

147d1

COMMONS DEBATES.Now, I would ask the Government whether they areprepared to introduce any measure this Session, no matterhow brief, with a view to repress the immigration of Chineseinto British Columbia? There has been a general feelingabroad that in the absence of white labor in that country acertain number of Chinese would be admitted into thecountry to work on the railway; but even that the peoplehave objected to, But, under the circumstances, 1 believethe general feeling would be to allow a certain number infor this purpose. If, however, they are to corne into thecountry, by the middle of August, to the number of 24,000,the country will be overrun by Chinese, as it will then have32,000, who will, as stated in the telegram, outnumber theentire white population. It strikes me that in view of theaction of the United States Government, some action oughtto be taken by the Canadian Government to repress thatimmigration; and I put it to the hon. gentleman opposite,in the common interest, as well as in the interest of thecountry, whether or not something cannot be doue to relieveBritish Columbia from the Chinese difficulty?

Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD. It is rather inconvenientthat this subject should be brought up without notice ofany kind; and the bon. gentleman must be satisfied with avery brief and perhaps unsatisfactory answer. No complaintshave reached the Goverument of serious interfer-ence with white labor in British Columbia, fromthe influx of Chinese labor. In fact, there is sucha want of white labor in British Columbia, thatif you wish to have the railway finished within anyreasonable time, there muet be no such step againstChinese labor. It is certain that British Columbia suffersvery much from the want of a steady flow into it of whiteimmigration; and until the Pacifie Railway is finished, Ifancy that difficulty will always continue. It is of verygreat importance, in order to enable British Columbia toget the advantage of the flow of emigration from Europe,that the railway should be finished as early as possible.When Mr. Onderdonk was here in the beginning of theSession, he told me ho employed every white man he couldget, and that ho tried to get every white laborer from Canadathat he needed. le asked me, for instance, if I could recom-mend to him a reliable, a respectable man, a master builderor carpenter, who might get him the carpenters he wanted.I found him such a man, and he took over from Canadaflfty or sixty carpenters to help him. Mr. Onderdonk saidalso that he expected at one time to be able to get sufficientwhite labor from the United States; but such was the extentto which the construction of new railroads were proceedingin the United States this year, that ho could really get nosatisfactory labor, but only the clls and refuse, persons whocould get no employment at San Francisco, to work on theBritish Columbia Railway. I presume that this influx ofChinese is greatly caused by the demand for labor for theconstrurtion of the railway. Whether the hon. gentlemanis correctly informed as to 24,000, or 10,000, or 5,000Chinese coming into British Columbia, I have no means ofknowing. But if they are coming, it is inerely to work onthe railway, to finish it as soon as possible, and we may wellput up with the temporary inconvenience, as I understandit, of the presence of these Chinese. A good many peoplein Vancouver Island, who keep bouse, tell me that if theyhad not Chinese servants, they would have none at all; andI have no doubt things are still worse on the mainland.The Chinese bring no women to British Columbia withthem, and are not likely, therefore, to be permanentsettlers. Nor do I hear that there is any danger of misce-genation or a mingling of the races. So that after theyhave finished this particular work they can go back toChina again. Whenever a practical difficulty arises, it isquite in the bands of the Legisiature to deal with it, in themanner in which it bas been dealt with, after a great manyyears experiene, in the United States, and as it las

been deaIt with in the Australian Provinces. At presentevery white man can be employed in British Columbia atgood'wages. The Government have had no information of analarming influx of Chinese. This is the first I beard ofthese 24,000 Chinese immigrants, and I think the report muetbe mythical. I h&.ve seen in the newspapers, however, astatement that several vessels had been chartered to bringover Chinese laborers to work on this railway, to which 1think there can be no objection. I share very much thefeeling of the people of the United States, and the Austra-lian colonies, against a Mongolian or Chinose population inour country as permanent settiers. I believe they would notbe a wholesome element for this country. I believe that it isan alien race in every sense, that would not andcould not be expected to assimilate with ourArian population ; and, therefore, if the temporarynecessity had been overcome, and the railway constructedacross the continent, with the means of sendi the Euro-pean settlers and laborer into British Coumnlia, thon itwould be quite right to join to a reasonable extent in pre-venting the permanent settlement in this country of Mon-golian, Chinese or Japanese immigrants. At present it issimply a question of alternatives-either you must havethis labor or you cannot have the railway. The Govern-ment have not had their atttention called to this sub-ject of late; but it is a matter of so great importance that itwill engage our attention, and that of every publie man inthis House, to discover how far we can admit Chinese laborwithout introducing a permanent ovil to the country byallowing to come into it, in some respects, au inferior race,and, at all events, a foreign and alien race. Of course,British Columbia, from its geographical position and prox-imity to the ocean, ie that portion of the Dominion that willchiefly suffer from an influx of this description of settlers.

Mr. DECOSYIOS. I am glad to hear the hon. leader ofthe Government express an opinion favorable to repressinChinese immigration at some time in the future; butbelieve it will be found, by the experience of the presentyear, that that future will not be very distant. The point,however, to which I wish to draw your attention is this:The hon. gentleman has intimated that the Government hashad no information bearing on the question of Chineseimmigration. I have only to draw his attention to this fact:that at almost every Session of the Legislature of BritishColumbia since 1871 resolutions or addresses have beenpassed by the Legislative Assembly and forwarded to theSecretary of State of Canada dealing with this question.The hon. gentleman remarked that Chinese were useful asservants in Victoria. No doubt they are used as servantsthere, and are appreciated, but the number of servants inVictoria altogether would not probably amount to over 200,which is a very small number in comparison with the 4,000or 5,000 Chinese in British Columbia, as shown by theCensus report, and sirce that Census 4,000 or 5,000 morehave been added to enter into competition with white labor.With regard to the point raised that Chinese labor on rail-ways would bo very acceptable in the absence of whitelabor, I believe that as a choice between evils the Provincewould accept Chinese labor for the purpose of constructingthe railway ; but, at the same time, the Legislature and thepeople are looking anxiously to this Government ta takesome action to put down Chinese immigration, and suchaction would be the more easy now since there is a tenyears limit put on such immigration in the United States

Mr. ROCHESTER. I do not know what the difficultyis with regard to Chinese labor in British Columbia, but Ido know the people of Canada would be glad if they hadChinese or other labor. Agriculturists in Ontario, find itutterly impossible to procure labor. During the last fewdays, a few batches of immigrants arrived in Ottawa-and they

3 were only a few hours here when they were carried off tq

1882. 1477

OOMMONS DEBA'ES. MÀY 12,different parts of the country, and ten times as many morewould have been employed had they arrived. We are inthe sanie position with regard to our mill work. Millhands are very scarce, and it is almost impossible to get asupply of laborers to do the work required to be done.British Columbia has so much work to do in building rail-ways, that she ought to be thankful to get in Chinese labor,or the labor of any other country, to do it. The people ofOntario would be very glad if they could have an oppor-tunity of employing Chinese labor.

REDISTRIBUTION OF SEATS.

Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD, in moving the third read-ing of Bill (No. 158) to readjust the representation in theHouse of Commons and for other purposes, said: The pointreserved was whether we could not make the elections inManitoba the same day as in the other Provinces. Onmaking enquiry I came to the conclusion it would not besafe to alter the law as it is now.

Mr. PATERSON (Brant). It will be remembered by theHlouse that in discussing this Bill in Committee yesterday,when the electoral division of the north ridirg of Bruce wasunder consideration, the hon. the leader of the Governmentstated,in response to the motion made by the hon. member forthat riding, that he was willing to adopt some change withreference to that division so far as regarded its population.Though not entirely satisfactory to my own views asopposed to those of hon. members opposite, yet there is nodoubt it would tend to equalize the population in a greaterdegree than they are equalized in the Bill as it now stands.It would be without any great political consequence it istrue, but it would, notwithstanding, in a degree, remedy thegreat inequality of population that exists between the westand north riding of Bruce in this Bill. I therefore beg tomove the following amendment, which I am sure the hon.the leader of the Government will accept:-

That the Bill be not now read a third time but be re-committed to theCommittee of the Whole Bouse, with instructions to amend the sameby providing that the village of Port Elgin shal form part of theelectoral district of the north riding of the county of Bruce.

Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD. When the hon. gentle-man said, last night, that Saugeen and Port Elgin shouldbe added to North Bruce, I said the Government was pre-pared to go half way and give Port Elgin. Is the hon.gentleman serious in proposing to take away Port Elginfrom Saugeen and put it in North Bruce, or does he proposethat the strip of land lying between Port Elgin and thepresont southern boundary of North Bruce shall be addedto North Bruce ?

Mr. PATERSON, With the view of meeting the hon.gentleman, and taking what I could in the way cf carryingout the principle of the Bill, I move this amendment first,and thon, having given the hon, gentleman an opportunityto yield gracelully on this point, in favor of which he hasexpressed himself, I will give him an opportunity to gothe proer length by attaching the township of Saugeen toNorthJBruce as well.

Amendment (Mr. Paterson) agreed to, on the followingdivision:-

YUAs:Messieurs

Âmyot, Flynn, Mongenais,Angn , Fortin, Montplaisir,Arkell , Gillies, Mousseau,Bain, Gilimor, O'Connor,Bannerman, Girouard (Jac. Cartier),O livier,Barnard, Girouard (Kent), Orton,Beches, Grandbois, Ouimet,bchd, Gunu, Paterson (Brant),

Benoit, Guthrie, Pickard,Bergeron, Hackett, Pinsonneault,BeHaggart, Platt,

Blke.Hay, Pope (Oompton),kr. RocamsTER.

Borden,Bourassa,Bourbeau,Bowell,Brecken,Brown,Bunting,Burnhar,Burpee (St. John),Burpee (Sunbury),Oameron (Victoria),OarlingeCaron,Oartwright,Ocasey,OasgraulàCimon (âhicoutimi)Colby,Couglilin,'Coupai,

oursol,Daly,Daoust,Dawson,Desaulaiers,Domville,Dumont,Farrow,Fiset,Fleming,

Bill,Bolduce,Oimon (Oharlevoix),Costigan,Gigault,

Billiard, Poupore,Holton, Reid,Borer, Richey,Hooper, Rinfret,Huntington, Robertson (Hamilton),Irvine, Rochester,Jones, Rogers,Kaulbach, Rouleau,Killam, Routhier,King, Ryan (Montreal),Kirkpatrick, Ryial,Kranz, scot,Langevin, Scriver,Lantier, Bhaw,Lauriere Sutherland,Macdonald (Sir John), Telrier,Me Donald(OapeBretonThompson,MIcDonald (Victoria.,N.S)TilIey,Macdonell(Lanark), Trow,Mackenzie, Tupper,Macmihlant Tyrwhitt,Mcarthy,' Vain,McDougald, Wade,McDougall, Wallace (lforfolk),MoLelan, Walace (York),Malouin, Wheler,Merner, White (Cardwel1),Méthot, White (Hastings),

Milhs, White (Benfrew).-124.

MessieursLandry,Lane,Mccallum,McRory,Ogden,

Rosa (Dundas),RykertSproule,Vallée,Vanasse.-15.

Amendment considered in Committee and reported.On motion for third reading,Mr. PATERSON. I desire to follow up this amendment

with another motion I had prepared with reference to thematter, and which the First Minister will agree with me is anecessary motion to be made. I could not think, of course,of detaching Port Elgin from the township of Saugeen, andtherefore, the hon, gentleman agreeing with me in thatview, as hedid ,I am happy to say--

Sir JOHN A. MACDONAD. Not by a long chalk; thatwill not do.

Mr. PATERSON. I am now about to follow it up witha motion that the township of Saugeen in which is the townof Port Elgin, shall also be added to the north riding ofBruce. I am sure it will commend itself to the favorableconsideration of the House. Consequently, I beg to move:

That the Bill be re-committed with instructions to provide that thetownship of Saugeen shall form part of the electoral district of thenorth riding of the county of Bruce.

Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD. I think this amend mentshows to what extent hon. gentlemen are willing to go-Iwas going to say they are factions. Last night it wasproposed that Saugeen and Port Elgin should be put intothe north riding. Well, I suggested that we would gohalf way and put in Port Elgin. That was scouted by thehon. gentlemen opposite, but to-day we have just voted forit. The hon. gentleman's proposition is factions. The hon.gentleman said: "Let Saugeen go, we willgo half-way;" andtherefore the Bill passed as it was originally introduced.The hon. gentlemen changed their minds, and they nowwant the full loaf. We offered half a loaf by adding PortElgin to North Bruce, and they voted for it. Now theywant me to give them the whole loaf and allow Saugeen togo into North Bruce. I shall vote against that.

Amendment (Mr. Paterson, Brant) negatived on the fol-lowing division : -

MessieursAnglin,Bain,Béchard,

Fleming,Flynn,Giller

Mackenzie,Malouin,Mils,

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