Exploring the Causes of the Spanish Economic Crisis and Identifying How the

Country Could Improve Its Competitiveness

Cristian Bailón Gutierrez

MMU ID: 11048383

Supervisor: Prof Dr. Hamed El-Said

A dissertation submitted in partial fulfilment of the requirements for the

award of Master of Science in International Business Management by The Manchester Metropolitan University Business School.

April 2014

  i  

Declaration The author has not, whilst being registered for the Masters award, been a registered

candidate for another award of a university.

No material in this dissertation has been used in any other submission for an academic

award.

This dissertation is based on empirical research.

  ii  

Abstract The principal aim of this study is to conduct empirical research into Spain´s current

economic crisis. The crisis has been extensively studied in order to understand the impact

it has upon Spanish citizens, such as high levels of unemployment and staggering poverty

rates.

The study aims to identify the causes for Spain's crisis, contending that it was due

to an unsustainable economic model based on the property boom. In addition, it analyses

the austerity measures taken by Spanish and European Community institutions and their

effects. These measures are dismantling the Spanish welfare state, which has been

developed during the country's short time as a democratic nation. Alternative ways of

ending the crisis are proposed, through improving Spanish competitiveness; improving the

main pillars needed to establish and maintain a wealthy nation, such as the educational

system, productivity, innovation, the banking system and the labour market.

To meet the goals outlined in the study, the methodology has required strategic sampling,

focusing on five in-depth interviews with economists, politicians and a member of the 15M

Movement; as well as a focus group composed of highly qualified young Spaniards,

currently living and working in Manchester due to the economic crisis in their home country.

The aim of this sampling was to obtain a better perspective of the viewpoints of each

participant, which in turn has allowed the author to explore the causes of the economic

crisis. The interviews were recorded and fully transcribed in both Spanish and English for

its interpretation in a logical manner.

The results show that crisis has highlighted weaknesses in Spain's economy, such as any

risk falling not on capital but on the public. The Spanish people are suffering the

consequences of a neoliberal system based on cuts that do not offer a way out of the crisis.

On the contrary, it is deepening. The austerity measures are intended to ensure that large

financial companies collect the debt that Spain owes them. Globalisation paradoxically

promotes the mobility of capital and goods whilst hindering human mobility. The study

demonstrates that ending the crisis means improving Spanish competitiveness, which

requires a larger pool of human capital; education is therefore the fulcrum of improvements

in Spain, followed by innovation and improving both the banking system and the labour

market.

  iii  

Acknowledgements The reason I embarked on this dissertation was to explore the economic and institutional

crises affecting Spain. As a Spaniard myself, this is a subject that I am really interested in.

I would like to thank my supervisors, Prof Dr. Hamed El-Said and Dr. Nuran Fraser, for

their valuable knowledge and expertise, and for their advice and encouragement in each

phase of this research.

Thanks to those who have participated in this project through interviews: thanks for your

clarity and honesty. In particular I would like to thank the United Left representative Tania

Sánchez Melero, Prof Dr. Juan Torres López and Dr. Stuart Barret for sharing your

knowledge with me; without your help, this dissertation would not have been possible.

Warm thanks go to my English tutor for the past four years, Andy Porter; thank you for your

extreme patience and for being such a great teacher. Four years ago, who would have

thought I would be able to write a Masters dissertation in English?

Thanks to all my close friends for their support and especially for taking care of me during

the surgery I underwent this summer due to my health problems. Finally, a special mention

to my family for supporting me from day one to the last.

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Table of Contents

Declaration ............................................................................................................... i

Abstract ................................................................................................................... ii

Acknowledgements ............................................................................................... iii

List of Tables and Figures .................................................................................... vi

List of Abbreviations ............................................................................................ vii  

Chapter I .................................................................................................................. 1

Introduction ............................................................................................................. 1 1. Introduction to the topic ............................................................................................. 2 1.1. The role of subprime mortgage .............................................................................. 2 1.2. Aim and Objectives .................................................................................................. 4

1.2.3. Research objectives ........................................................................................... 4 1.3. Structure of the dissertation ................................................................................... 4

 Chapter II ................................................................................................................. 6

Literature Review .................................................................................................... 6 2. Introduction ................................................................................................................. 7 2.1. Spain, a country into the abyss .............................................................................. 7

2.3. Examining the impact of EU reforms on Spain ........................................... 10 2.3.1. Interpreting Keynes’s theories .......................................................................... 12

2.4. The challenge the Spanish government faces to end the crisis ....................... 13 2.4.1. Innovation as a driver of economic growth ....................................................... 15 2.4.2. Labour Market ................................................................................................... 16 2.4.3. Banking System ................................................................................................ 18

2.5. Conceptual Framework ......................................................................................... 20 2.6. Conclusion ............................................................................................................. 22

 Chapter III .............................................................................................................. 23

Methodology .......................................................................................................... 23 3. Introduction ............................................................................................................... 24 3.1. Research Approach ............................................................................................... 24

3.1.1 Research Method Approaches: Deductive and Inductive .................................. 27 3.2. Research Design .................................................................................................... 28 3.3. Research Strategy ................................................................................................. 29 3.4. Research Methods ................................................................................................. 30

3.4.1. Interviews Design .............................................................................................. 32 3.4.2. Focus Group ..................................................................................................... 32

3.5. Sampling ................................................................................................................. 33 3.6. Data Analysis ......................................................................................................... 36 3.7. Ethics ...................................................................................................................... 38

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3.8. Conclusion ............................................................................................................. 38  Chapter IV .............................................................................................................. 39

Findings and Discussion ...................................................................................... 39 4. Introduction ............................................................................................................... 40 4.1. The catalysts of the Spanish economic crisis .................................................... 40 4.2. The austerity measures taken by the EU ............................................................. 43 4.3. Spain’s competitiveness ....................................................................................... 44

4.3.1. Productivity ....................................................................................................... 45 4.3.2. Labour Market ................................................................................................... 46 4.3.3. Education .......................................................................................................... 47 4.3.4. Innovation system ............................................................................................. 48 4.3.5. Banking system ................................................................................................. 49

4.4. Conclusion ............................................................................................................. 50  Chapter V ............................................................................................................... 51

Conclusions and Recommendations .................................................................. 51 5. Introduction ............................................................................................................... 52 5.1. The triggers of the Spanish economic crisis ...................................................... 52 5.2. Austerity measures, or financial recovery through Keynes’s theories ............ 53 5.3. Ending the crisis by improving Spain’s competitiveness ................................. 54 5.4. Recommendations ................................................................................................. 55 5.5. Limitations .............................................................................................................. 58 5.6. Scope for further research .................................................................................... 58

 References ............................................................................................................. 60  Appendices ............................................................................................................ 66

Appendix A ............................................................................................................ 67 Royal Decree Law 3/2012 ............................................................................................. 67

Appendix B ............................................................................................................ 69 Interviews – English version ........................................................................................ 69 Interviews – Spanish version ..................................................................................... 113

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List of Tables and Figures Figure 1: Economically Active Population, Unemployment rate (%) in Spain...……….8

Figure 2: Spanish Household Debt – 2003/2012……………………………………………..9

Table 1: The four main objectives of the labour reform…………………………………..17

Figure 3: Conceptual Framework……………………………………………………………..20

Figure 4: Research Onion………………………………………………………………………24

Figure 5: Methodological levels.…………..………………………………………………….26

Table 2: Research Methods……………………………………………………………………31

Table 3: Focus group advantages and disadvantages…………………………………...33

Table 4: Interview Participants Background…………………..…………………………...34

Table 5: The process of qualitative data analysis…………………………………………37

Table 6: Recommendations…………………………………………………………………...55

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List of Abbreviations ECB: European Central Bank

EU: European Union

EU27: European Union of 27 Member States

FDI: Foreign Direct Investment

GDP: Gross Domestic Product

IMF: International Monetary Fund

INE: National Statistics Institute

IU: United Left

MBS: Mortgage Backed Securities

NINJA: No Income, No Job and No Asset

OECD: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development

PP: People’s Party

PSOE: Spanish Socialist Worker’s Party

R&D: Research Development

SICAV: Investment Company with Variable Capital

SMEs: Small and Medium-Sized Enterprises

WEF: World Economic Forum

  viii  

‘There are two kinds of economists: those who work to make the rich richer and those who

work to make the poor less poor’.

José Luis Sampedro, 1/2/1917 - 8/4/2013.

  1  

   

Chapter I

Introduction

  2  

1. Introduction to the topic Navarro et al. (2011) argues that the first thing firms, organisations, nations and

institutions should do to solve any issue is to discover the real causes of the situation, just

as any doctor should make an accurate diagnosis of his patient if he wishes to treat him

properly.

During the last century there have been many different economic crises, such as

the Wall Street Crash of October 1929. This crisis ended a long period of speculation in the

U.S. market. From 1924 until 1928, the country's economy was based on the dangerous

credit mechanism used in financial speculation; this focused on cheap monetary practices,

where credit was easily available. Investors borrowed in order to invest in the market

through the buying and selling of stocks, which caused a rise in companies' quotations,

providing great returns that allowed investors to quickly repay the borrowed money and

pocket a substantial profit.

Over the years, banks have speculated with their customers’ money; and through a

series of financial speculations, many banks bankrupted themselves and lost the savings of

millions of people. This catastrophe was felt in virtually all economies worldwide, and was

one of the causes of World War II (Calomiris, 1993).

1.1. The role of subprime mortgage It was thought that mankind had learned its lesson from the Great Depression;

however it seems there are many lessons left to learn. The current global financial crisis

began in a similar way to the Crash of 1929; capitalism created a system which made poor

people believe they were rich and thus take on mortgages they could not actually pay off.

This forms the backbone of the current crisis. During the Nineties, interest rates in

the United States fell, which is why the banks created two types of mortgage - prime (good)

and subprime (bad) - to achieve higher yields. The government accepted the existence of

these packages; despite knowing they carry a high risk. However, due to these types of

mortgage, American banks increased demand for mortgages. In this period, the global

economy was quite healthy and people were confident enough to arrange mortgages

(Trehan, 2007).

Torres (2010) argues that subprime mortgages were high risk because they were

granted to people with economic problems. The banks lent money at a higher interest rate

than for prime mortgage loans. These subprime mortgages became known as NINJA – ‘No

  3  

Income, No Job and No Asset’ (loans made without declaration of income from the

borrower). These mortgages attracted borrowers who could not gain credit elsewhere.

Banks began to give out so many mortgages that they lost their liquidity, meaning they had

to resort to the titling of assets by selling the role of mortgages. These assets were sold as

packages known as Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS) to financial institutions who, as

payment, gave liquid money to the banks, so they could continue providing mortgages to

the NINJA.

This fuelled a property bubble in Spain. To know whether these packages were

good or bad, it was necessary to refer to the credit rating agencies - private entities

responsible for assessing the quality of these bonds. If the products were rated as low

quality it was because there was a risk of default - they would receive a low rating, as must

have been the case with subprime mortgages. However, because the main objective was

to facilitate the real estate sector, the credit rating agencies had no qualms about giving the

highest rating to the MBS packages, which received AAA quality (the highest rating).

According to Ashcraft and Schuermann (2008), during 2006 subprime mortgage holders

were worth $448.6 billion. The investment funds which bought those bonds in turn sold

them to other funds and then on to others, so that they spread all over the international

banking system.

Dethier and Morrill (2012) state that since the early ´90's housing prices increased,

until 2006, when they reached their peak. Since then prices in Spain have fallen

dramatically as millions of workers have become unemployed and unable to pay their

mortgages.

When the housing bubble burst, these MBS bonds started to depreciate in value on

the marketplace. Dierckxsens (2008) contends that house prices fell by 9% in 2007; it is

estimated that, at that time, there were 8.8 million mortgage holders (amongst a population

of 52 million) who had housing loans higher than the current value of their homes.

In addition, the financial crisis has not only reduced employment in the building

industry but has also had a dramatic impact on other sectors. This led banks to fight

against defaults at the beginning of 2007; as a result many banks, such as Lehman

Brothers, American Home Mortgage, Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch and others went bankrupt

(Bordo, 2008).

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1.2. Aim and Objectives The major motivation for the researcher is the devastating effect the crisis is having

on Spanish society. In recent years unemployment has grown to 6,200,000 (INE, 2013b) –

in particular, youth unemployment has reached over 55%. This has caused many people to

fall into debt, and led thousands to leave the country seeking work; this is having a

devastating effect on families across Spain.

The main aim of this project is to generate an appropriate methodology to identify

the causes that have pushed Spain into this situation. In addition, it will make a critical

analysis of the factors that have caused the crisis in the country. Finally, it will seek

alternatives that could help the country end the difficult situation, through improvement of

the most important pillars of the economy of any nation - improvement of competitiveness

through innovation, education, productivity, the labour market and the banking system.

1.2.3. Research objectives

1) To evaluate the main causes of the current economic crisis in Spain

2) To analyse the effectiveness of new policy reforms implemented by the European

Community and the Spanish government, and whether they provide a solution to

the crisis

3) To examine the Spanish crisis in the context of economic policies and theories

4) To examine how Spain could recover from the crisis by becoming more competitive

5) To explore the four main pillars that Spain should improve in order to be more

competitive

1.3. Structure of the dissertation In addition to this introductory chapter, this research consists of four chapters, the

contents of which are briefly outlined below.

Chapter II Literature Review

This chapter presents a critical analysis of the Spanish economic crisis, examining

the real reasons Spain is in the abyss. It offers some suggestions to help overcome the dire

economic situation by improving Spain's competitiveness.

Chapter III Methodology

This chapter is based on the methods chosen to gather the data to effectively

explore the topic and achieve the objectives set by the author. Thus it suggests qualitative

research based on six in-depth interviews, specifying the sampling strategy to follow.

  5  

Chapter IV Findings and Discussion

This chapter focuses on presenting the results generated after the analysis of both

literature and primary data, looking for correlations and contrasts between the findings

through logical and thoughtful interpretation.

Chapter V Conclusions and Recommendations

The last chapter presents the conclusions obtained through empirical research and

raises recommendations for the future. Also, it suggests scopes of research to follow in the

future.

  6  

Chapter II

Literature Review

  7  

2. Introduction

The principal aim of this literature review is to critically analyse the causes of the

current economic crisis in Spain. Secondly, to conduct a radiograph of the debt that the

country has amassed in recent years due to poor public administration. The international

financial crisis and its impact on the Spanish economy has exposed the weaknesses of

Spain´s growth pattern and the extent of the country´s problems with productivity and

competitiveness. Moreover, the literature suggests alternative approaches to overcome the

crisis, through improving the main pillars of competitiveness such as: labour market,

education, banking and innovation. Finally, this chapter concludes with a conceptual

framework for the research design.

2.1. Spain, a country into the abyss The Spanish economic crisis first took hold in 2008, but it was not until a year later

that it manifested with such harshness. According to the National Statistics Institute (INE,

2013a), unemployment is the most visible consequence of the recession, reaching

6,202,700 million unemployed in 2013 - equivalent to 27.16% of the active population

(which alongside Greece is the highest unemployment rate in Europe), an increase of

563,200 versus the previous year.

Unemployment has affected everyone. Figure 1 below illustrates the increase in

Spain´s recent unemployment rates. Undoubtedly, the most troubling figure is youth

unemployment, which, according to this year´s data (2013), stands at 55.9% - the second

highest in the EU27, behind only Greece (59.1%). Both countries are well above the EU27

average of 23.5%; the data is more staggering when compared to Austria and Germany,

the European countries with the lowest youth unemployment rates, each with a figure of

only 7.6% ( European Commission, 2013).

Due to rising youth unemployment in the last five years, more than 300,000

Spaniards aged 25 to 35 (the majority with higher education qualifications) have emigrated

to search for work. This loss of human capital could have a long-term negative spill-over.

The main beneficiaries of this ‘brain drain’ are countries like Germany, France, the United

Kingdom, Norway and Argentina, as they provide better job opportunities (Valera, 2012).

It is important to underline that the average unemployment rate in the Euro area has

also increased in recent years, owing to the heavy tensions in sovereign debt markets

  8  

around Europe. In March 2013, unemployment in the Euro area was 12.1% (European

Commission, 2013).

Figure 1: Economically Active Population, Unemployment rate (%) in Spain

Source: adapted from INE, 2013b.

The Bank of Spain (cited in Jiménez and Mars 2013) states that in recent years

Spain has accumulated a public administration debt of 84% of the country´s Gross

Domestic Product (GDP). In 2012 the GDP was €1,050 billion - translating to a Spanish

debt of €882 billion in 2012. This has increased over recent years - an increase of €400

million more debt every day. Never in the history of the Spanish economy has there been

such an increase in such a short amount of time.

Household debt has also grown significantly over the last ten years, as shown in

Figure 2. Gay de Liébana (2012) writes that Spanish household debt in 2012 was €855

billion. This debt has been caused by the property bubble´s boom years, where credit

agencies encouraged families to borrow.

It is also crucial to note the financial sector´s debt, which is around €1,200 billion, as

well as debt held by non-financial firms of €1,247 billion. These numbers indicate that

19.80%  20.30%  21.30%  

20.30%  21.50%  

22.90%  24.40%  24.60%   25%  

26%  27.16%  

0.00%  

5.00%  

10.00%  

15.00%  

20.00%  

25.00%  

30.00%  

Unemployment  rate  (%)  

2010/Q3 2010/Q4 2011/Q1 2011/Q2 2011/Q3 2011/Q4 2012/Q1 2012/Q2 2012/Q3 2012/Q4 2013/Q1

  9  

Spain's gross debt in 2012 was €4,184 billion - four times the country's GDP. As a result,

for every Euro that Spain produces, it accrues debt of more than four Euros.

Figure 2: Spanish Household Debt – 2003/2012

Source: adapted from Gay de Liébana, 2012 p.48.

The situation in the country is unsustainable. One principal cause is the housing

bubble, where the Spanish government promoted unsustainable economic growth based

on the construction sector. During the construction boom, the number of houses built in

Spain rose almost 30% (around 750,000 houses per year) between 1998 and 2007. This

accounted for an average of 13.3% of total employment, far higher than in countries such

as Germany (6.7%) and the UK (8.5%). Moreover, the revaluation of houses in Spain

during the real estate boom was 191%, the second highest figure amongst OECD

(Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) countries. Unfortunately, the

construction cow could not be milked forever.

A principal cause of the housing bubble was the introduction of the Land Law in

2008. The People´s Party (PP) government believed that by providing more land, housing

prices would fall. In fact, the opposite occurred - speculators started to buy and build

houses, expecting that prices would increase for a long time (Arellano and Bentolila, 2009).

451.1

541.9

653.5

780.7

876.6 912.8 906.6 902.1

870.9 855.8

2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 0

100,000

200,000

300,000

400,000

500,000

600,000

700,000

800,000

900,000

1,000,000

 Household  Debt  (in  billion of euros)  

  10  

Another factor behind the housing bubble was the currency exchange in 2002,

which took Spain from the peseta (old currency) to the Euro. This had an inflationary effect

- house prices doubled in just a few years, whilst wages increased only slightly in contrast

with other Eurozone countries, contributing to massive Spanish household debt (Gay de

Liébana, 2012).

As a result, there have been more than 400,000 evictions, affecting thousands of

families. Tragically too, there have been waves of suicides just days after people have

been evicted, or mere hours before their eviction date (Buck, 2013). This system of

economic development contradicts the definition of sustainable development according to

the Brundtland Commission (in 1987, cited in Porrit 2007 p.33), which recommends

'development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future

generations to meet their own needs'.

The Spanish Constitution, ratified in 1978, sets out essential principles for the

country and the rights of its citizens. Article 35 states that ‘All Spaniards have the duty to

work and the right to employment, to free choice of profession or trade, to advancement

through their work, and to sufficient remuneration for the satisfaction of their needs and

those of their families.’ This is in stark contrast to the current 27.16% unemployment rate.

Article 47 too emphasises that 'All Spaniards are entitled to enjoy decent and adequate

housing. The public authorities shall promote the necessary conditions and shall establish

appropriate standards in order to make this right effective, regulating land use in

accordance with the general interest in order to prevent speculation’. Again, this compares

to the 400,000 evictions. There is widespread dissatisfaction and anger in Spanish society

at the failure of the current administration to provide what is promised in the Constitution.

(The Spanish Constitution, 1978).

2.3. Examining the impact of EU reforms on Spain

Anguita (2012) states that the seeds of the Spanish crisis were sown 21 years ago,

with Spain´s entry into the European Union. By signing the Maastricht Treaty in 1992,

Spain accepted the treaty’s strengths but also its weaknesses - for instance, the EU

created a single currency (Euro) incorporating countries who are diverse both economically

and socially; however the EU does not share a common budget or common fiscal policy.

  11  

Before entering the Euro, whenever Spain needed money it always went to Spain’s

Central Bank and borrowed at an interest rate of 1%. However Maastricht bans Eurozone

countries from using their central banks, so whenever the government needs money for

roads, schools, hospitals, etc., it now has to borrow from private banks, at an interest rate

of at least 5%. This is why public debt constitutes such a large part of public spending. In

2012, Spain paid €30 billion to private banks in interest alone (Gay de Liébana 2012).

Lord Gonzalez (2012), Prime Minister of Spain at the time when the Treaty was

signed, admits that mistakes were made. He says that Eurozone countries waived their

sovereign currencies to adopt the Euro as a single currency for all, and created a European

Central Bank (ECB) with statutory powers to develop monetary policy and inflation. But

when the single currency was decided, the Euro and the ECB did not sufficiently address

the challenge of how to manage monetary union with divergent fiscal and economic

policies. When negotiating the Treaty, Economic and Monetary Union were considered, but

only a monetary union has been developed, accompanied by a Stability and Growth Pact

that was thought sufficient to guarantee the proper functioning of the single currency.

Fink and Salvatore (1999) warned that the Euro could cause problems, as an ECB

would want to maintain tight monetary conditions to make the Euro stronger than the dollar.

They also claimed there could be an increase in economic inequality between northern

European and southern European countries, arguing that the southern Europe would

become relatively poor and lose human capital with the emigration of better trained

professionals attracted to the higher salaries and better career opportunities offered

elsewhere in the EU.

Under the Treaty, guidelines limit public debt to a maximum of 60% of GDP; Spain’s

public debt however currently accounts for 84% of GDP. In addition, the guidelines specify

that the national deficit could not exceed 3% of GDP – however in 2013, Spain´s deficit

was 7.2% (6.7% excluding support to banks). Forecasts for the coming years are more

favourable - it is expected to reduce to 5.8% in 2014 owing to production growth and

structural adjustment (Gay de Liébana 2012; European Commission 2012; ECB 2014).

These pacts to limit public deficit and public debt led to the Spanish government

making cuts of €27 billion in the state budget for 2013 (almost equivalent to the money that

Spain pays to the private banks for the interest rate of their public debt). These austerity

measures are promoted by the International Monetary Fund (IMF), ECB and EU. The

public administrations most affected are health and education, with a freeze and reduction

  12  

of public sector salaries, as well as an increase in tax to meet public deficit targets agreed

with the EU (BBC, 2012).

The Euro is overvalued for Spain, given that productivity levels in Spain are lower

than in the northern European countries. Belonging to the Eurozone has seen the

disappearance of internal monetary devaluation, which had frequently been successful to

overcome economic crises (Weisbrot and Montecino, 2010).

2.3.1. Interpreting Keynes’s theories

Keynes’ (cited in Mattick, 1971) advocated that to minimise unemployment, it is

necessary to activate the consumer through lower taxes, increase public spending and

public employment, and promote exports through monetary devaluation, thus increasing

the nation’s global competitiveness. Demand will increase and unemployment will be

reduced. In addition, Stiglitz (2012) argues that the austerity measures have serious

consequences in the long-term. Whether or not the Euro survives this crisis, it will do so

with a high rate of unemployment, especially in southern European countries.

Spain’s most valuable asset is its human capital, which is being eroded by high

unemployment levels. A country with large numbers of unemployed does not create wealth;

a firm can run without managers, but without workers there is no wealth because what is

created is known as surplus value (Smith 1776; Marx 1978; Ricardo 1911).

Moreover, Keynes argues that, in times of crisis, it is important to understand the

main priorities of the country's economy, in order to reduce unemployment (which is the

biggest issue in Spain) or to fight against deficit and public debt (priorities of the EU).

Keynesian theories might be the best framework for dealing with recessions and

depressions - these theories emphasise that, in order to end an economic crisis, it is

essential to: reduce taxes, to encourage consumer spending and drive demand; lower

interest rates to encourage businesses to invest more; increase public spending to create

jobs; and encourage exports by lowering the exchange rate through currency devalue.

Keynes wanted to fix capitalism, not replace it. However, he did not believe in free markets

without active government control and intervention to overcome periods of crisis (Krugman

2009; Young 1987). However, it is has been said that Keynes theories do not address

stagflation, and stagflation may be better addressed through the theories of Milton

Friedman.

  13  

The liberal model of Friedman maintains that good fiscal policy means public

spending is equal to government revenue, and that there should be a balanced budget.

This neoliberal system is against public deficit and believes that the only policy that

government should take is a monetary policy - one that handles interest rates and

promotes a free market policy. Neoliberals believe in microeconomics through related

production spending and increased competitiveness through new technologies.

Friedman states that economic growth depends on factors such as institutions and

the organisation of the economy, but never on monetary impulses (Friedman, 1980). The

neoclassical viewpoint considers that government intervention is bad and market

liberalisation is a more desirable approach, however, this view has arguably failed as it

does not sufficiently support institutions and help them to thrive. It is important to

acknowledge that institutions matter; they not only provide incentives but also structure

actions that individuals respond to. Institutions affect the capacity of firms to interact and

therefore affect the relative transaction and coordination costs of production and innovation

(Mudambi and Navarra 2003). According to (North 1990 p.3) ‘Institutions are the rules of

the game in society or, more formally, the humanly devised constraints that shape human

interaction’.

Knack and Keefer (1997) argue that governments that gain the confidence of their

own citizens, plus of international markets attract greater Foreign Direct Investment (FDI).

Additionally, firms have stronger incentives to innovate and accumulate physical capital,

stimulating employment. Therefore, the major role of institutions in a society is to reduce

uncertainty by establishing a stable structure and build confidence.

2.4. The challenge the Spanish government faces to end the crisis Spain needs to improve its competitiveness to end the current crisis. The World

Economic Forum (WEF, 2013 p.4) defines competitiveness as 'the set of institutions,

policies, and factors that determine the level of productivity of a country'. Spain has a

delicate macroeconomic climate with tremendous difficulties in curbing its public deficit, and

was ranked 135th position in terms of public deficit.

The Spanish banking system is rated 109th because some Spanish banks have

been rescued by the government, generating a lack of confidence in the global financial

market. It has also led to serious difficulties for firms in accessing finance; Spain also has

severe problems with other areas, pillars which are vital for the economy, such as:

  14  

productivity (ranked 133rd), labour market (123rd), innovation (44th) and the educational

system (81st).

Porter (1990) maintains that competitiveness is determined by how productively a

nation uses its resources; the quality and uniqueness of its goods and services; and the

efficiency with which they are produced. In this context, Porter´s conceptualisation of

competitiveness refers to a country´s ability to provide great prosperity for its citizens, plus

how effectively a country uses its human, natural and capital resources. A firm is the

platform where these resources are combined to produce goods and services in an efficient

and productive way. It is also necessary to have superior resources and achieve efficiency

to improve productivity and competitiveness. This happens when firms use the minimum

level of resources for a particular operation, or obtain maximum results from a given level

of resources. The company also seeks the possibility of using existing resources more

profitably (Peteraf 2007; Grant 2005).

Adam Smith (1776) analyses the absolute advantage and division of labour,

essential theories for productivity. Smith wrote that the production of a product for

exchange always requires human labour, and that some countries could reach an absolute

advantage through the skills of their workers or the quality of their natural resources.

A clear example is the tourism sector in Spain: thanks to its natural resources and

workers’ specialisation in this sector, Spain has a competitive advantage. In 2012 there

were 57.7 million tourists in Spain, amassing a revenue of €55.5 billion (Institute of Tourism

Studies, 2013). Porter (1985) states that this competitive advantage has normally been

gained by offering consumers better value; by offering lower prices than competitors or by

providing greater benefits and services that justify higher prices. Smith (1776) emphasises

that each country should specialise in production and export to make production processes

more efficient: in other words, to reduce the number of hours spent. However, according to

Smith, a nation is richer than other nations because productivity in its factories and

enterprises is more advanced than amongst its competitors.

Except for the tourist sector, Spain has experienced the weakest growth in labour

productivity compared to other OECD countries (OECD, 2012b). The evolution of

productivity in Spain since 1995 has been slow and negative. During the real estate boom,

many investment projects based their profitability on short-term expectations of asset

revaluation and few on productivity. Spain needs to improve its productivity as it enhances

the income per capita of a nation, yet it requires the same number of workers to produce

  15  

more goods and services that are valued by the market (García, 2011). Recent data from

the OECD (2012a) shows that although Spain is one of the least productive countries,

Spanish workers work more hours per year, an average of 1,690 in 2011, higher than

French (1,476), German (1,413) and British (1,625) workers.

At just €728 per month, the minimum wage in Spain is below other EU countries: for

example, in Luxembourg it is (€1,357), in Ireland (€1,462), the Netherlands (€1,357),

France (€1,336) and the UK (€1,148), (Anguita, 2012). Hence productivity establishes

wages, gains returns on capital and natural resources and, by extension, improves the

standard of living in the country. Firms are more productive when the business environment

in which they operate is positive (Porter, 1990).

2.4.1. Innovation as a driver of economic growth

The crisis has highlighted the shortcomings of the Spanish production model.

Spending on research and development (R&D) in Spain was 14,588 million Euros in 2010,

1.39% of Spanish GDP; this is low compared to the EU27 average, which is over 2% of

GDP (Cotec, 2012). Additionally, the Spanish government last year announced a cut in

science funding of more than 25% - this decision will have negative consequences on the

Spanish economy in the future (Pain, 2012). The government has been forced to rethink its

actions in order to achieve future sustainable growth and job creation. The introduction of

the new law on Science, Technology and Innovation in 2012 is an important step forward

for the progressive coordination and internationalisation of the Spanish innovation system.

However, Drucker (1985) notes that innovations emerge from ‘bright ideas’, which

are often vague and uncertain; entrepreneurs face high risks when trying to implement

them. Drucker believes innovative entrepreneurs should put aside their brilliant ideas and

focus instead on analysing the fields that can lead to innovations. That said, recent

research shows that 71% of ideas come from new employees, 21% by coincidence and

just 8% from R&D. Consequently it is essential that all citizens can generate new ideas

through a sound education system, which supports development and implementation of

new ideas (Martin, 2011).

Spain´s educational system has one of the largest drop-out rates in Europe, with

28.4% of students not obtaining the compulsory secondary education (ESO) qualification.

One major cause is the wide range of highly paid no-qualification job opportunities created

during the construction boom. According to data, the new cuts in education amount to

62.5%; it is claimed that consequently science contracts fell by 43%, R&D by 25.52%,

  16  

scholarships and study grants by 11.6 % and Erasmus programmes by 41.4%. Moreover,

the increase in tuition fees could lead to a university drop-out of around 20% next year due

to a lack of financial resources for some students. This would signify a move for Spain

away from the OECD average investment of GDP in scholarships (0.11% of GDP

compared to 0.29% of the OECD average) (Mengual, 2012).

Human capital and innovation are essential to economic productivity and

competitiveness (Cotec, 2012). Porter (1990) states that the mere availability of natural

resources is no longer a competitive advantage. In the knowledge era, advantage is

generated by innovation and creativity, which requires a large investment in human capital,

training, research and development. Faced with new realities, what makes a country,

region or firm prosperous is productivity and innovation - the ability to make more efficient

use of a workforce. Dynamic capabilities become determinants of innovation, and the firm

should strive to maintain its competitive advantage. Dynamic capabilities are not in

themselves a competitive advantage, but they facilitate the construction of that competitive

advantage. In other words, dynamic capabilities are a crucial but not sufficient criterion for

building sustainable advantages. However they provide new practices, systems and

procedures which are incorporated into the repertoire of the organisation (Zollo and Winter

2002; Barney 1991; Eisenhardt and Martin 2000).

Schumpeter’s vision of innovative activity as the main driver of economic growth is

part of his theory of 'creative destruction', which gives a key role to entrepreneurs who use

innovation and technological advances as a vehicle for economic development. He viewed

recessions as healthy, part of the economy’s amendment to change. According to his

theory, a business cannot be recognised an enterprise just because it is operational;

entrepreneurs must also create innovative products. Schumpeter's theory reflects the fact

that economic cycles are natural in the world of capitalism – they come from waves of

innovation, new products and new enterprises. The crises prolong the time it takes for

inventions to become new products or innovations. With the new growth cycle, companies

and entrepreneurs who have not innovated disappear from the market. Schumpeter

thought that the main drivers of capitalism do not proceed from population growth or

accumulation of capital – they come from entrepreneurship (Schumpeter, 1934).

2.4.2. Labour Market

According to OECD (2012b), the critical situation in Spain has exposed the

weaknesses of the Spanish labour model. Therefore, the Spanish government is facing the

challenge of increased competitiveness and productivity through new labour reform.

  17  

In recent years, the Spanish economy has seen significantly weaker productivity

growth than other OECD countries. The government believes that reforming employment

protection legislation is key to motivating firms to hire more employees with permanent

contracts; under the previous law, labour market costs for layoffs of workers with undefined

contracts was extremely high (compensation of 44 days per year worked, with a maximum

of 42 months) compared with temporary contracts, which led the number of temporary

contracts to rise to 25% - higher than the EU27 average of 14% (BOE, 2012). Besides,

high protection for employees with permanent contracts can reduce the responsiveness of

wages to labour market conditions and make it difficult to integrate young people into the

labour market. Finally, it could harm productivity by reducing the mobility of workers with

permanent contracts and incentives for individuals and businesses to invest in training for

temporary jobs (OECD, 2012b).

The new labour reform includes the Royal Decree Law 3/2012 (the full Law is

illustrated in Appendix A), which aims to address the high rate of unemployment (27.16%)

in Spain as well as establishing a clear framework that will contribute to the effective

management of labour relations and facilitate job creation. It purports to provide a better

balance of internal and external flexibility between the regulation of permanent contracts

and temporary.

Table 1: The four main objectives of the labour reform.

1. ‘Collective bargaining and internal firm flexibility. Pre-eminence of agreements

reached at the firm level. Limited validity of agreements in the absence of a new

one once they have expired (ultra activity). Facilities for the employer to adapt

working conditions, including working hours and salary.

2. Favouring the effectiveness of the labour market and reducing duality.

Reduction of the compensation for dismissals. Causes for economic dismissals

have been clarified. Creation of a new permanent contract.

3. Favouring permanent contracts. New contract for entrepreneurs with a

probation period of one year.

  18  

4. Favouring workers’ employability. Temporary Employment Firms are allowed to

act as private employment agencies. Encouragement of permanent training of

workers and vocational training’.

Source: Ministry of Economic and Competitiveness, 2012 p.1.

Before the reform, the unemployment rate was 23% (5.3 million); currently it is

27.16% (6.2 million). If the main objective of the new labour market reform was to create

jobs, the data suggests it is failing. Perhaps the reform should have strengthened internal

flexibility, such as salaries, working hours and work schedule, etc. Without a radical

advance in flexibility in terms of dismissal, employers receive a message that it is easier to

reduce the number of employees.

Labour reform has also negatively impacted on youth unemployment. Before the

reform, youth unemployment stood at 48.6% - in July 2013 it is 56.5%. During this period

wages have also dropped significantly. The government should consider more labour

market reform for better results (Gutierrez, 2013).

The IMF (2013) emphasises that Spain has historically never created net

employment when the economy did not grow more than 2%. This growth figure is not

expected in the medium-term, so the IMF believes that adjusting wages could reduce the

number of lay-offs in future years and persuade employers to hire and invest more. This

would boost demand and increase the country's competitiveness.

According to the authorities, the labour reform requires a long period of time to

deliver results - authorities believe that it may be working but the recovery is slow. The IMF

maintains that the new reform is having a positive effect but recommends further labour

reform to increase competitiveness and reduce unemployment, through policies that

reduce the cost (including tax cost) of hiring groups such as youth and low-skilled workers.

Labour reform should be supplemented by faster progress in enhancing competition and

the business environment. These reduced labour costs increase the country

competitiveness; exports of goods grew by 2.9% in the last year, which refers to €234

billion per year from international business (Benoit and Ichikura, 2014).

2.4.3. Banking System

Torres (2010) emphasises that large companies do not need lots of financial help

because they have their own funds, whereas small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) -

which constitute 99% of Spanish firms - depend entirely on loans to finance their activities;

  19  

unlike large companies, SMEs do not have the liquidity or ability to issue shares or financial

instruments from which they could receive funds. Nowadays more than 87% of SMEs admit

to having trouble accessing credit. Moreover, Gay de Liébana (2012) maintains that SMEs

are where more employment is generated. They will take Spain out of its crisis.

The impact on access to credit is severely damaging the economy; the authorities

have to regain credit. Authorities have bailed out the banks to the tune of €100 billion but it

not been enough to revive the credit that the Spanish economy needs; it has only helped to

conceal the weaknesses at the heart of the Spanish financial system (Torres, 2010). The

Spanish bank borrows money at an interest rate of 1% from the ECB and buys the public

debt of countries in crisis at an interest rate of at least 5%, with the assurance that the debt

will be paid without any risk, instead of supporting SMEs by providing credit at low interest

rates (Gay de Liébana, 2012).

The Spanish government is pressing the EU to facilitate financing SMEs through

three proposals. The most conservative proposal is €10.4 billion from the EU budget for

2014-2020, which will benefit more than 580,000 SMEs in Europe and create a significant

number of jobs (Informacion, 2013). Recently Sánchez (2013) confirms that Germany has

signed an agreement to bail out Spanish SMEs, aiming to provide liquidity to Spanish

SMEs. Spain will collect up to €2.4 billion over the next few years, as the agreement comes

into force from late 2013. This funding is expected to have a positive effect on short-term

unemployment data and training places for young Spaniards.

Weak banks have been strengthened and recapitalised by a review of the assets,

an independent stress test exercise and a new restructuring plan. In addition, capital

augmentation has been achieved through burden-sharing with subordinated debt and the

transfer of assets and loans to a newly incorporated asset management company

(SAREB), and though a new draft law. The supervision of the Bank of Spain has also

strengthened the banking system. This is vital to ensure the solvency of financial

institutions and public entities. Additionally, the Spanish financial system is now controlled

by the EU, which ensures that the money is being well spent. By contrast, banks have

tightened lending standards for a given creditworthiness and companies’ access to credit

remains the most urgent problem in Spain. The increase in lending rates seems

inconsistent with a pure demand shock. There may also be disruption of credit relationships

as many banks helped by the state downscale operations as part of their restructuring

plans (IMF, 2013).

  20  

2.5. Conceptual Framework

The literature review has provided the author with a theoretical construction

framework with which to find the most recent and relevant data for this project. This

literature has given a better picture of the fundamentals influencing the Spanish economy

in the last decade, and established which pillars are critical for Spain´s competitiveness. It

also has helped compose an appropriate conceptual framework, as well as being a useful

research tool for this study and thus a foundation for analysing the literature. The

conceptual framework (Figure 3) plans to explore the theoretical basis of the factors related

to the Spanish economic crisis that began in 2008 and the poor competitiveness of the

country. The conceptual framework examines the causes of the economic crisis, which

could be the housing bubble and subprime mortgages, and explores economic policy and

theories that could provide a solution to the crisis, as well as how the country could

increase its competitiveness. In reviewing the literature, these concepts could be the

reasons that the Spanish economy is in crisis.

Figure 3: Conceptual Framework

Source: author´s own

  21  

Moreover, this conceptual framework has allowed to the author to select a

qualitative research method of in-depth interviews to examine the causes of Spanish

economic crisis and how the country could become more competitive, according to the

perspectives of the interviewees. This literature review can be used as a basis for

discussion with participants (Jabareen, 2009).

One of the main causes of Spain´s economic crisis was the bursting of the housing

bubble in 2008. The Spanish government´s strategy was to focus on the construction

sector to rebuild the economy, without foreseeing the risk characterised by uncontrolled

expansion, ,dragging citizens into debt with little thought for future consequences (Gay de

Liébana, 2012).

Secondly, although it is usual to state that the economic crisis erupted in 2007 with

the announcement that major U.S. banks had lost huge amounts of money, the origins of

the crisis came years ago, when subprime mortgages were considered high risk products.

Uncertainty and fear spread in stock markets all over the world, illustrating that it was not

only a subprime mortgage crisis but a global economic crisis (Torres, 2010).

Moreover, the author is interested to explore whether the austerity measures and

economic policies of the IMF and the Spanish government are alleviating or worsening the

crisis, and to explore how economic theories, such as the Keynesian model, could

stimulate recovery.

Finally, Spain has one of the lowest levels of productivity and competitiveness in the

EU; one of the most comprehensive efforts to measure the international competitiveness of

nations has been conducted by the WEF (2013), which bases its analyses on the Global

Competitiveness Index (GCI). This is a useful tool used by the researcher to analysis the

Spanish competitiveness. The WEF (2013) suggests that there are 12 key pillars which can

be used in order to measure the competitiveness of a nation and the author focuses on

four: innovation, the education system, banking and the labour market, plus Porter´s

theories of competitiveness that could help Spain recover.

  22  

2.6. Conclusion

This chapter contends that the Spanish economy has been negatively affected by

poor public administration during the housing bubble and lack of economic

competitiveness, which has over the last decade led the country into one of the darkest

financial periods in its history. Spain has the highest unemployment rate in the EU.

Austerity measures imposed by the EU are not having positive results; it can even be said

austerity is worsening the situation in the country. The best way out of the crisis is by

improving the country's competitiveness - a competitive nation creates wealth and

economic growth, enabling businesses to thrive, and improving the living standards of its

citizens. In summary, to increase competitiveness, Spain should improve its basic pillars -

education, banking, innovation, productivity and the labour market.

  23  

 

Chapter III

Methodology

  24  

3. Introduction To meet the objectives of this study, a suitable methodological approach was

required. This approach would employ the methods and tools to collect the data needed

and thus best achieve the study's objectives, including the justification for the author

chosen approaches.

3.1. Research Approach The following research onion approach represents the methodology chosen for the

investigation. According to Saunders et al. (2009), this model enables the author to guide

and illustrate the process and choices of data collection used in this research. Figure 4

illustrates the components based on the research onion.

Figure 4: Research Onion

Source: adapted from Saunders et al. 2009, p. 108

In most educational research, the issue of the validity has been significantly

considered and posed in very general terms as: ‘how well has the data set generated from

this research approach reflect the phenomena it is intended to cover?’ (Marschan-Piekkari

  25  

and Welch 2004, p. 469). Fundamentally, philosophical concerns are an elementary

component of the research process and tend to occupy a prominent place in educational

research. As such, these philosophical issues cannot be ignored because they comprise

what research silently thinks about research, related to the binary opposition quantitative –

qualitative (Scott and Usher, 2011).

Nevertheless, further specific formulation of validity criteria can alter its outcomes

regarding the researcher’s ontological and epistemological viewpoint (Marschan-Piekkari

and Welch, 2004). Freimuth (2009) supports this view by suggesting that ontology and

epistemology can influence one’s choice of research paradigms, techniques and methods.

Thus, these two paradigms may influence many ways of research design and conclusion.

Therefore the researcher considers it significant to discuss and appreciate the different

research paradigms regarding the levels of epistemological and ontological frames that

underpin the use throughout the research phase, to ensure the research approaches are

aligned to the nature of the investigation (Marschan-Piekkari and Welch, 2004).

Primarily, ontology is defined as science or study correlated to the nature of being

and existence. An ontological position is defined by considering reality as dynamic, global

and built on this integrative process of social realities. This concept tends to be

problematic, because instead of accepting a world where causal mechanisms are waiting

to be empirically discovered, an ontological approach tends to implement an on-going

building process, conducted by reflexive actors who are unable to offer a completely

objective social reality of the issues investigated. Among the different social ontologies, the

methodological framework should reflect and seek similarities between the alleged

differences. While positivism adheres to reality, this study was based on constructivist

transactions and thus oriented towards subjective conclusions, which were engendered by

construction activities and the significance of the individual groups (Cupchik, 2001).

In contrast, the definition of epistemology is presented as the study of the nature

and extent of knowledge and truth. From this perspective, facing the hypothetical pathway,

deductive research tends to assume an inductive approach. The epistemological concept

of a study matches the research and the theory used to understand the problem. Choosing

the right theory is vital to conceptualise the processes of analysing and understanding the

phenomena to be investigated. Epistemological assumptions in the research process can

influence understanding and interpretation of data. Should the differences be observed

from an epistemological approach - the problem of research definition, for example? In

  26  

addition to its logical relationship to the research design, what will be discovered? How will

it work? And with which methods (Holloway 2003; Freimuth 2009).

Whilst the term ontology concerns what comprises reality, this needs to be

distinguished from epistemology which constitutes the view of how researchers can know

the reality they wish to describe, by considering the most suitable ways to achieve and

interpret this knowledge and adopting strategies which rely on methods that enable the

researcher to collect the appropriate data and then analyse it (Freimuth 2009; Scott and

Morrison 2005).

Whereas these two paradigms contribute to the essence of knowledge, truth and

being (Freimuth, 2009); clearly there is a fixed relationship between ontology and

epistemology and other components of the research process, as well as in the belief they

have regarding the nature of reality and how this influences researchers understanding.

Therefore it is possible to illustrate these elements and indicate a set of possible relations

in the way as depicted in figure 5 (Marschan-Piekkari and Welch 2004; Scott & Morrison

2005).

Figure 5: Methodological levels

Source: adapted from (Marschan-Piekkari and Welch, 2004 p. 470).

  27  

Figure 5 shows how the research strategy has been chosen (regarding the

methodological approach to the research question, such as carrying out a conceptual

study, supported by both qualitative and quantitative studies to investigate the research

question) and how it correlates to the researcher’s common epistemological perspective.

Therefore, the author followed an epistemological research philosophy and gave

preference to an interpretive nature, influenced by the author’s ontological beliefs regarding

the objective, as detailed in section 1.2.3, and/or subjective nature of human reality.

However from an ontological standpoint, the author adopted a social constructivist

approach to ensure validity and describe social reality (Marschan-Piekkari and Welch

2004).

The project investigated different perceptions of the current Spanish economic crisis

and how to improve its competitiveness, canvassing politicians, economists and

organisations for their perceptions. That was why this study implemented an interpretive

approach - to answer the questions developed for the investigation. The main purpose was

to understand the phenomenon from the perspective of participants in the current economic

situation in Spain and not from the perspective of the researcher (Maxwell, 2005). A

researcher selects, verifies, eliminates and transforms arguments, interpreting meaning

regarding the situation in which he or she is immersed. Interpretation is however not a

simple, automatic application of established meanings, but rather a formative process in

which meanings are used and revised as instruments for the guidance and training of the

act (Blumer, 1969). Walsham (1995 cited in Rowlands, 2005 p. 81-82) defines interpretive

research as that which ‘does not predefine dependent or independent variables, does not

set out to test hypotheses, but aims to produce an understanding of the social context of

the phenomenon and the process whereby the phenomenon influences and is influenced

by the social context’. Shankar and Goulding (2001 p.8) also remark that ‘the interpretive

researchers' goal is not the “truth” because it can never be proven; rather their goal is

hermeneutic understanding or verstehen’. From this perspective, any interpretive research

is theory-based; its main goal is to go beyond finding the ‘truth’ and obtains a richer, deeper

picture of the Spanish economic crisis and its lack of competitiveness.

3.1.1 Research Method Approaches: Deductive and Inductive

Tracy (2013) argues that there are two approaches to developing scientific

research: deductive and inductive approaches. The fundamental difference is that the

former aims to demonstrate, by pure logic, any conclusions entirely from premises, so as to

ensure the veracity of such conclusions, lest the logic be invalidated. Choosing an inductive

method allowed the researcher to better understand the Spanish economic crisis and its

  28  

lack of competitiveness, by generalising the observed behaviour: indeed, the main goal of

this study was to establish generalisation, thus developing a clearer picture of and

conclusions about the objectives of this study. An inductive approach poses limitations: it

may be difficult to follow up on any research and conclusions may be unreliable. On the

other hand, the author made a partial implementation of the logic that maintains the validity

of this research (Saunders et al. 2009). The inductive approach offered the author a better

chance of understanding the factors that led Spain to this situation, as well as identifying

alternative ways of ending the Spanish crisis by improving its competitiveness (Tracy,

2013).

3.2. Research Design A complex judgment regards whether the right approach to the study could include

both quantitative and qualitative research. Simplifying the differences between the two

approaches may suggest that qualitative research normally just uses words, whereas

quantitative research tends to use simplified numbers - but this is only part of the truth. The

real differences lie in the work plan, the ways of collecting the data and, above all, how an

analysis of the information is conducted. Each method is linked to a distinct and unique

paradigmatic perspective (Guest et al. 2013). The research in this study was based on the

qualitative research method. Denzin and Lincoln (1994 cited in Klenke, 2008 p.7) define

qualitative research as ‘multi-method in focus, involving an interpretive, naturalistic

approach to its subject matter. This means that qualitative researchers study things in their

natural setting, attempting to make sense of or interpret phenomena in terms of the

meanings people bring to them. Qualitative research involves the studied use and

collection of a variety of empirical materials – case study, personal experience,

introspective, life story, interview, observational, historical, interactional, and visual texts –

that describe routine and problematic moments and meaning in individuals' lives’.

Many quantitative researchers criticise qualitative studies, asserting that qualitative

research does not produce valid findings. This method is also ineffective in understanding

social, political and economic perspectives, as it is unable to deal with the complexities of a

group or person, and thus is not helpful in analysing the ideals and knowledge of

participants (Balcázar et al. 2005). The researcher believes that to understand the

catalysts of the Spanish economic crisis and analyse the country’s competitiveness, it was

necessary to conduct interviews and focus groups, as these are the only data collection

methods with sufficient sensitivity to capture the research objectives (Corbin and Strauss

2008). The rationale behind choosing qualitative approach for this research is that it has

enabled the author to obtain an empirical view, incorporating the perceptions and concerns

  29  

of each participant This method enabled the researcher to analyse the reality of the topic

and ensured the validity and reliability of the research (Soler, 2001).

To meet the research objective, the author needed to understand the main causes

of Spain´s current crises. Secondly, to examine which economic policies and theories could

provide a solution to the crisis; and thirdly, how Spain could enhance its competitiveness.

The first justification in choosing the research design is that it was imperative, with respect

to the process of participant observation, to adopt a qualitative approach. This qualitative

approach facilitated the author to gain concepts and perceptions in order to develop a

better understanding of social phenomena in their natural setting. Another rationale was

that this method allowed the researcher to interpret phenomena in terms of meanings,

experiences and obtain different view-points with regards to the participants involved

(Neergaard and Ulhoi 2007; Denzin and Lincoln 2013).

This type of research usually focuses on the analysis of discourse: words,

semantics and the environment surrounding a particular object of study. The most

commonly-used tools in the field of qualitative research are surveys, in-depth interviews

and focus groups. This study was conducted through five in-depth interviews with different

individuals, including a Spanish economist, a politician and a member of the 15-M

Movement to collect different perspectives on the Spanish crisis and its lack of

competitiveness. It also used a focus group with highly qualified young Spaniards who had

immigrated to England due to the lack of job opportunities in Spain. The rationale to choose

a focus group was to obtain appropriate and valid qualitative data, alongside capturing the

perspectives of each individual apropos the Spanish economy and its competitiveness

(Biggam, 2011).

3.3. Research Strategy This case study deployed a qualitative research method. Empirically-orientated, in-

depth understanding of a subject can encompass different facets: an individual, an

institution, an educational program, a community or a culture - in short, any group sharing

ideological or common beliefs. Yin (2009) considers the case study as a research design

strategy. This study was a descriptive, comprehensive and in-depth case, attempting to

identify the problems and underlying causes of the economic crisis in Spain and how to

enhance its competitiveness. Yin (2008 cited in Merriam 2009 p.40) defines a case study

as ‘an empirical inquiry that investigates a contemporary phenomenon within its real-life

context, especially when the boundaries between phenomenon and context are not clearly

evident’. Case studies provide a better understanding of a particular phenomenon, to clarify

  30  

an issue or complex theoretical question or inquire into any phenomenon, situation or

group (Stake, 1995). Furthermore, Merrian (1988 p.13) attributed to the case study

particular characteristics: descriptive, heuristic and inductive. This study focused on

inductive as ‘for the most part, case studies rely on inductive reasoning. Generalization,

concepts, or hypotheses emerge from an examination of data - data grounded in the

context itself. Occasionally one may have tentative working hypotheses at the outset of the

case study, but these expectations are subject to reformulation as the study proceeds -

discovery of new relationships, concepts, and understanding, rather than verification or

predetermined hypotheses, characterizes qualitative case studies’.

Analysis of the external validity of results was part of the investigation. It was critical

to adopt the right tone; as proposed via the replication process, the case study research

needed a theoretical basis to explain the phenomena investigated and determine the

conditions of generalisation or transferability of the results obtained. These conditions had

to be stated explicitly in the final research report. The main advantage of this case study

was that it provided an understanding of the 'Spanish crisis' and its lack of competitiveness

holistically. The type of knowledge obtained through this case study has opened up new

interpretations of the complexity of the phenomenon. Therefore, future readers play an

active role in interpreting the data that the researcher has provided and analysing the

validity of their conclusions. Still, it must be emphasised that the case study has received

much criticism, especially in relation to external validity but also on internal validity,

reliability or validity of constructs. It also seems that the case study offers a poor basis for

statistical generalisations; ideally the case study should provide statistical samples that

similar cases would correspond to, meaning results could be generalised (Yin, 2009;

Merrian, 1988).

3.4. Research Methods The aim of this research was to capture relevant information for a descriptive

analysis of the study´s issues, firstly through secondary data (chapter two) – information

already collected by someone else, i.e. journals, annual reports, books, newspapers and

organisation websites - and secondly through primary data obtained through interviews and

a focus group, with the advantage that, being generated by the author, it could be

controlled and adjusted in the most appropriate ways (Naghi, 2005). Empirically-based data

tends to lack theory when framing the research process, but in this study, a conceptual

framework was derived from the review of texts that dealt with the objectives of this study.

However the attraction of empirical research is precisely to stop talking about something

factual and escape from theories (Yanow and Schwartz-Shea 2006). In most educational

  31  

research methods, Scott and Usher (2002) identified some features of research which are

taken to be as mainly a systematic, rigorous and methodical. Based on these

characteristics, the researcher considered adopting empirical research as the most

appropriate research form for this investigation, because it involves the collection, analysis

and presentation of primary data in a rigorous, systematic and methodical way.

Table 2: Research Methods

Primary data Secondary data

- Primary data was theoretically

constructed using profiling, to identify

participants who would contribute to a

comprehensive understanding of the issue

being studied - the Spanish economic

crisis. The profiles possessed particular

characteristics that the researcher believed

would provide excellent qualitative data on

the study; the participants chosen fulfilled

this criterion, as they had relevant

experience and close links to the crisis.

- The advantage of primary data is that the

author has generated it, which means it

can been adapted to meet the objectives

of this study. Moreover, this primary data is

more current than much of the secondary

data, and represents a high-value

confidential resource for research because

this data did not exist before, so it is

unique (Naghi, 2005).

- Secondary data has provided the author

with a theoretical framework to find,

access and obtain accurate and relevant

information for this project. This data has

granted a better perspective on the

foundations that influence the Spanish

economy. This understanding has led to a

new perspective on which to analyse and

criticize its effects, even socially (Naghi,

2005).

- The main theoretical models used in this

study are the theories of Michael Porter,

based on his concept of competitiveness

through creativity and innovation; priorities

for nations if they wish to gain a

sustainable competitive advantage (Porter,

1990). The literature analyses the levels of

Spain's competitiveness, based on the

Global Competitiveness Index that is

conducted annually by the WEF. The

author also acknowledges the theories of

Adam Smith, who believed he had found a

way of balancing the individual interests of

the people and the competitive nature of

nations (Smith, 1776).

Source: Naghi, 2005; Smith, 1776; Porter, 1990; WEF, 2013.

  32  

3.4.1. Interviews Design

This methodology contains some risks: the researcher faces a disadvantage in that

such interviews provide small samples, so results cannot necessarily be applied elsewhere

(Denscombe, 2003). The key advantage of the in-depth interview is that the interviewer can

explore issues that arise during the interview. The most traditional way for depth-interviews

to be conducted is face-to-face because it is the most satisfactory method for conducting a

successful interview. Due to the inability of the author to travel to Spain to carry out the

interviews, four interviews were conducted by telephone and one face-to-face in

Manchester. The main advantages of telephone interviews are that they save time, as they

are more scripted and thus performed more rapidly than the face-to-face interview.

Telephone interviews can also cover wider geographical territory without the researcher

having to move, saving costs in the study. However this method could cause a lack of

motivation because it does not provide direct contact with the interviewers. The duration of

every interview was a mean of 45 minutes (Taylor et al. 2006; Silver et al. 2013).

Interviews can be structured, semi-structured or unstructured. Because the

interviewees were familiar with the topic, it was more permissible to conduct an

unstructured interview, in which the researcher choses the structure and context. The

advantage of this type of interview is that the interviewer was able to thoroughly explore

issues emerging during the interviews; the disadvantage is that this type of interview was

difficult to code, and did not test hypotheses. It is used for obtaining primary data in a

specific area - which can often be unpredictable and unknowable in advance - and possibly

formulating a subsequent hypothesis (Denscombe, 2003). Before administering the final

version of the questions, it is advisable to test questions via pilot interviews to ensure they

work. The aim of the pilot study was to clarify and evaluate the quality of questions. In

addition, the researcher sent outline questions in advance to the interviewees as guidance,

to help them feel prepared for the interviews (Moore, 2000).

3.4.2. Focus Group

According to Sim and Snell (1996 cited in Sim, 1998 p.346) a focus group is ‘a

group interview – centred on a specific topic (‘focus’) and facilitated and co-ordinated by a

moderator or facilitator – which seeks to generate primarily qualitative data, by capitalising

on the interaction that occurs within the group setting’. In other words the focus group is a

qualitative research technique, ideal for providing understanding. In this study, there were

eight people - under the guidance of a moderator, they talk freely about the topic selected

by the researcher. Usually the researcher chooses the participants because he believes

  33  

their opinions and ideas will assist in achieving the research goals. Questions should be

formulated in accessible language according to the participants, and their cultural context

should also be explained. Social interaction was an essential feature of the focus group as

the dynamics created between the participants revealed their perceptions of reality and

their beliefs about the Spanish crisis and its lack of competitiveness. The interaction also

allowed participants to question each other and reconsider their own views about their

specific experiences.

Table 3: Focus group advantages and disadvantages

Advantages: The first advantage of focus group research is that an overall picture of

the knowledge, attitudes and social behaviour of a social group - and how each

individual is influenced by another in a group situation - can be obtained. Another

advantage is that it can analyse the information in a way that helps researchers to find

out which issues are important and which are not.

Disadvantages: The major focus group limitation is that the researcher chose the

group, which limits the ability to generate representative results (mainly because the

number of participants is relatively small and unrepresentative). Moreover, the

moderator has less control over the validity and reliability of the findings than found in

other data collection techniques. Another disadvantage is that by its very nature it is

difficult to plan focus groups in relation to time management, development of the topics

to be discussed and achieving collective agreement or representative conclusions. The

moderator's role is vital in this method because what seems an advantage in these

cases can become a disadvantage - a moderator must possess leadership and

communication skills to successfully coordinate and moderate a focus group.

Source: Morgan, 1997.

3.5. Sampling Murphy et al. (1998) comment that in qualitative research, study design evolves

throughout the project. Qualitative studies almost always use small samples; this does not

mean that it cannot obtain quality results, however. Qualitative research uses progressive

sampling and is subject to the dynamics derived from the research findings. The samples

are not predetermined; sequential sampling is theoretically driven, not set randomly or by

using mathematical formulas. The sample is important because it is the key qualitative

  34  

research. The logic of sampling in qualitative studies is totally different from quantitative

studies. Sampling is not done probabilistically, and the sample is not representative

according to statistical criteria.

This study utilised purposive sampling, which meant that the sampling was not

chosen for statistical representativeness but on how representative the discourse was

regarding the economic crisis and its lack of competitiveness in Spain. The researcher

sought out people who would provide quality answers to achieve the goals of this research,

alongside the main aim of interpreting the profound economic crisis. The justification to this

strategy is that it penetrates the field; its strength does not depend on the sample size

used, as qualitative research generally uses small samples.

Thanks to the perspicacious choice of participants, the sampling provided rich and

complete information and was considered sufficient because the information obtained by

the author achieved the objectives of the study. Sample size is generally determined by the

quality and quantity of information required. The sample design was done as a theoretical

construct that accompanied the body of the study, and the selection of participants in the

sample was carried out according to the profiles defined conceptually. The profiles were of

people with certain characteristics that the researcher speculated might influence the

meaning of the studied phenomenon. Table 3 shows in more detail why these participants

were chosen, their work experience and their relationship to the topic (Denscombe 2003;

Blankenship 2010; Atkinson and Hammersley 2007).

Table 4: Interview Participants Background

Name

Nationality

Education

Occupation

Participant 1

Tania Sánchez

Melero

Spanish

Graduate in Social Education; second

degree in Social and Cultural Anthropology, she is also currently

doing a Masters degree in Democratic Leadership

and Political Communication

United Left (IU)

representative. The IU is the third-

largest Spanish political party. She

is a regular contributor to three of the most popular

political debate programmes on

Spanish television: La Tuerka, La

Sexta Noche and El Gato al Agua.

  35  

Participant 2

Dr. Juan Torres López

Spanish

Graduate in Economics

and Business

Ph.D. in Economics and Business

He has been a professor at the

University of Seville since 2008, in the

Department of Economic Theory

and Political Economy. He is the

author of over 15 books on economy, amongst which are 'Hay Alternativas'

('There are Alternatives') and 'La crisis de las

hipotecas basura. ¿Por qué se cayó todo y no se ha

hundido nada?'('The crisis of

the subprime mortgage. Why has

everything fallen and nothing has

sunk?').

Participant 3

Javier Fernández

Cruz

Spanish

Senior Technician Computer System

Administration English Philology and Masters in Teaching.

Member of 15M Movement. Also

known as the Occupy movement,

it is a citizens' movement which

aims to show discontent with

Spanish politicians and their economic measures, and how

their mismanagement is contributing to the

Spanish crisis.

Participant 4

Jorge A. Calvo

Pazos

Spanish

Graduate in

Hispanic Studies and History

Ex-general secretary of

Socialist Youths of Galicia (Spain).

  36  

3.6. Data Analysis Recording the information provided by the interviewer and the focus group helped

the researcher because it can be replayed at any point, to rescue information that was not

considered relevant during the interview. The interviews planned for this study were

recorded to accumulate more tangible data found in the words of the interviewees.

Four of the interviews were conducted in Spanish to avoid language limitations. The

interviews were then translated into English. The translation process might have led to

some alteration of the data, owing to differences in meaning between both languages. One

interview was conducted in English (Greenfield, 1996).

Analysis of qualitative data can be daunting for any researcher, so it is important to

recognise that there is no single way to analyse qualitative data properly. Therefore it is

vital to find the most productive way of analysing the data. In addition, no matter how well

the interview has gone, the use of the information collected depended on its being

organised and accessible (Guest et al. 2013). Coffey and Atkinson (1996) emphasise that

Participant 5

Dr. Stuart Barrett

British

Graduate in Economic Economics and Politics

MSc in International Business and MBA

Stuart’s Ph.D. was

focused on multinational investment in the United

States.

Senior Lecturer at

Manchester Metropolitan University. Teaching

specialisms: ‘International

Business, Business Economics and

Asia-Pacific Economics and

Business’

Participant 6

Focus Group

Spanish

Focus Group shared with

young Spaniards who have graduated in

different areas such as Business Administration

and Management, Economics, Teaching,

Tourism and Telecommunications

Engineering

Due to the

economic situation in Spain, these highly qualified

young Spaniards have moved to

Manchester, where they looked for job

opportunities.

  37  

once the information has been collected and transcribed, the challenge is to simplify and

make sense of the complexity contained in the recordings and notes. The coding system is

useful when splitting up and compartmentalising the data to obtain more general

categories, as well as extracting data in order to formulate new questions and levels of

interpretation. This stage of codification consists of reading all the data line by line and

identifying the data with a code. Such codes must be linked to the research question, thus

allowing simplification and standardisation of the large amount and variety of data

collected. In terms of the interviews' validity, the uniquely secure procedure for verification

is to check that the results conform to reality (Greenfield, 1996).

Table 5: The process of qualitative data analysis

1. Record the data:

- Take notes, video, recorder and photography.

2. Listen and write down information.

3. Read and organise data:

- Number and classifying.

- Make comments in the margins.

4. Analyse the contents:

- Identify categories.

- Search the information related each category.

- Identification of the various aspects relating to the categories.

- Write summaries.

- Identify examples (quotes) frequencies/exceptions.

5. Describe the results:

- Similarities.

- Differences.

6. Interpret results of theory generation:

- Themes.

- Individuals (case studies).

Source: adapted from Vazquez et al. 2006 p.102.

  38  

The author collected qualitative data by recording interviews and taking detailed

notes during each interview. A full transcription was then made of the collected material

(verbatim) in both English and Spanish. (See Appendix B). A code is often assigned to an

interview to maintain confidentiality, but in this case the interviewees gave consent for their

names to be referenced in this dissertation. The most relevant data were identified and

sorted into subcategories, as well as encoded. These units of analysis were necessary.

The final phase of the analysis was interpretation: establishing relationships and

developing explanations provided a framework which ensured the findings make sense

(Coffey and Atkinson 1996; Vazquez et al. 2006).

3.7. Ethics Kumar (2005) argues that being ethical plays a crucial role in ensuring that research

will have no harmful effect on the project. In the hypothetical case that one cannot be

ethical, it is strongly recommended that the researcher seeks other alternatives for study. In

planning the interviews for this project, the researcher informed the participants of the basis

for the research and why they had been chosen to collaborate. There were also

assurances of the confidentiality: this promise of ethical and moral conduct was submitted

via email and verbally before each interview (Bell, 2005). Unethical behaviour could be (for

example) persuading the interviewees of a certain view point by citing data from other

authors without proper references - presenting it as original data from the researcher,

which constitutes plagiarism (Hammersley and Traianou, 2012). The researcher followed

the ethical guidelines and code of conduct of Manchester Metropolitan University (MMU),

ensuring that participants were not offended at any time. The researcher was objective with

each interviewee. By following these guidelines, the researcher ensures that the project is

an original piece of work and avoids plagiarism. At the end of the study, the participants

were offered a final copy of the research.

3.8. Conclusion This chapter has revealed the different methodological approaches used in the

research to collect appropriate data for this dissertation. This was obtained by generating a

primary data collection, gathered through five in-depth interviews and one focus group, to

explore the views of chosen participants. Additionally, this chapter discusses why the

methods were chosen as sampling strategies and types of interviews used. Finally, this

chapter details the steps followed by the author to analyse the primary data.

  39  

Chapter IV

Findings and Discussion

  40  

4. Introduction This chapter presents the results generated after the analysis of literature and

primary data. It looks for similarities and contrasts between the findings through logical and

thoughtful interpretation. The chapter begins with an analysis of the real causes of the

Spanish economic crisis; later, it examines the main pillars that Spain could improve to

enhance the country’s competitiveness; sub-themes were identified to develop theoretical

structures from the data collected and analysed systematically to achieve a degree of

abstraction from empirical data.

4.1. The catalysts of the Spanish economic crisis The findings from the primary data were fully supported by the source literature

used in the study. Between both the data and the literature, it seemed there was significant

consensus on the causes of the economic crisis in Spain. The results identified several

reasons for the crisis, centring on three main reasons why this uncertain economic situation

has arisen in Spain.

Firstly, a capitalist system focusing on economic growth based on housing

speculation constitutes the backbone of the current crisis. This began in the United States

via high-risk subprime mortgages, provided to people with low incomes. Banks gave out so

many mortgages that they lost their liquidity, and had to resort to titling assets. When the

largest American banks went bankrupt, they created a global crisis that has harshly

affected Spain, as the country's main economic driver was the property sector (Torres,

2010; Participant 1; Participant 6). Moreover, Participant 4 supported the argument that

Spain is suffering more from this crisis owing to a lack of competitiveness in other sectors.

For instance, in the UK there was also a property bubble burst; however it was not felt as

keenly because the UK is competitive in other sectors and the economy is more

sustainable. (Participant 2; Participant 1).

‘… the theory of diminishing returns, if you have a large amount of a product and

put it in the market at once, its price will decrease. If potatoes are very common,

their price will drop [...] So it was unnatural that the same thing was not happening

with the housing market. It was said prices would not go down and indeed they did

not go down […] the housing market bubble got bigger because of the rumour that

prices would not go down (Participant 4 p.95).

  41  

‘In short, it is a crisis of capitalism. As every other crisis, instead of being resolved it

is moved - so the financial crisis was moved from the private sector to the public

sector, with the debt being absorbed by public entities’ (Participant 1 p.69).

The second reason for the crisis is Spain's unsustainable economic model, based

on housing speculation, which created a real-estate bubble; the literature also suggested

that the PP, the ruling government, may have added fuel to the fire through the Land Law

in 2008, which led to an increase in the number of houses built in Spain by 30% - the

highest in the EU (Gay de Liébana, 2012). In contrast, by studying the primary data, it was

crucial to emphasise that low interest rates in the Eurozone in recent years were simply too

low for those countries which used them, leading to a credit boom (Participant 5).

The literature argues that during this time of prosperity, public administrations

wasted money on unnecessary projects; leading to public debt reaching €882 billion (84%

of GDP in 2012) and 6,202,700 million unemployed (European Commission, 2013;

Jiménez and Mars, 2013). In addition, primary data suggested that part of the debt is totally

illegitimate, meaning it should be audited as it has been caused by manipulation of markets

and citizens should not have to take on the debt (Participant 1; Participant 4).

‘International law says that illegitimate debt is against the interests of citizenship

and that when this occurs the debt should not be repaid. If this part of the debt is

the bit that Rajoy has dedicated to rescuing the banks, which up to now will have to

be repaid by the Spanish public, at the end of the day it is transforming private debt

into public debt’ (Participant 4 p.96).

‘Germany is very interested in charging that debt, because they are the major

creditors’ (Participant 6, p.108).

‘…low interest rates have caused a boom in credit - both private and public

borrowing - so when the global economy slowed down, Spain was in trouble’

(Participant 5, p.101).

Primary data also identified that Spain would receive great pressure from its

creditors if it refused to pay part off its debt (Participant, 2); it would receive pressure from

northern European countries, which is why Spain should seek allies in southern Europe in

order to reconfigure European politics. A single country is not going to achieve anything

and provide a counterweight to Europe. However as Europe is not immutable, and has

  42  

been built without sufficient flexibility, Spain should acquire alliances with non-European

nations with democratic criteria, without losing the sovereignty and economic decision-

making powers of community countries (Participant 1).

‘We have been allotted a peripheral role in Europe; therefore we are doomed to our

population having no more hope than to be the servants of the richest nations in

Europe. We have to stop and say that our citizens have the same rights as the rest

of Europe’ (Participant 1, p.71).

The third cause is the creation of a single currency (Euro); literature demonstrated

that when Spain relinquished its sovereign currency (Peseta) to the Euro, with the creation

of the ECB (which has legal powers to develop monetary policy and inflation) that monetary

union is not sustainable due to divergent economic and fiscal policies (Fink and Salvatore,

1999). The primary data had a significant relationship with this theory, as history shows that

the easiest way to get out of debt is through inflation. The easiest way to do that is to print

money, but the ECB wants to maintain tight monetary conditions because it is against the

policy of printing money and inflating debt. This decision goes against the people by

generating general impoverishment in the peripheral European countries (Participant 5).

The measures favour the financial powers, leaving the capital concentrated in the hands of

the richest - making the rich richer and the poor poorer (Participant 1).

Spain is a country where the workers produce 85% of revenue and yet capital is

taxed at the low figure of 15%. This system does not favour workers and poor families; it

breaches the Spanish Constitution, which states that the fiscal system must be

progressive. There is a lack of adequate transparency in the law, which could help end the

corruption afflicting the country; however the political crisis in Spain has no correlation with

the economic crisis. The origin of the political crisis came from the transition to a

democratic Spain, because the transition was not based on a rupture: instead, the new

government merely adapted Franco's institutions to the new political situation. If electoral

law does not represent the will of the people, not all votes possess the same value and a

political party can obtain an absolute majority with less than 28% of the votes, it is

necessary to create a new electoral law, to end that bipartisan system (Participant 4;

Participant 1). In contrast, Participant 5 argued that the political crisis is the same in all of

southern Europe: it is caused by economic problems - politicians do not have the answer

because it is a problem of the Euro. For this reason, politicians cannot do anything, as they

have no monetary policy tools available to them. These factors could be the real causes of

the Spanish economic crisis.

  43  

‘…is also a way of perpetuation of an economic and social model of development,

where powerful figures who were not standing for elections were sent, meaning

large firms and financial markets have retained the economic and political power of

the country’ (Participant 1, p.73).

‘I think now we place more attention on the political crisis due to the extremely weak

economic situation in the country. That is, before this we had the same amount of

thieves (or even more) but as things were going well, and the population

overwhelmingly lived in economic good times, we did not care about these

robberies and corruption scandals’ (Participant 6, p.107).

‘In the 1929 credit crunch, one strategy that helped the U.S. out of the crisis was

that the richest and largest companies paid more than 60% of their earnings in

taxes' (Participant 4 p.97).

4.2. The austerity measures taken by the EU According to the literature, the high public debt has led the Spanish government to

make cuts of €27 billion, predicated by the harsh austerity measures imposed by the IMF,

ECB and EU. In the most important sectors of any nation, such as health and education,

these cuts will in the short, medium and long terms have negative spill-over for the

economy and citizenship (BBC, 2012). These neoliberal political measures, headed by a

capitalist system, are dismantling the Spanish welfare state for the purpose of meeting the

public deficit level agreed in the Maastricht Treaty, which says that no country should have

public deficit above 3% of its GDP. The austerity measures, such as tax increases and

wage cuts for Spanish workers, are decreasing domestic demand (Gay de Liébana, 2012).

Both the primary and secondary data argued that there is not a single case in history where

a developed country has recovered from a debt crisis through austerity measures. In the

past three years Spain has been trying to end the crisis through these measures, yet

figures demonstrate that whenever the unemployment rate has increased in a year, public

debt has also increased. These measures mean citizens have less money, therefore they

spend less; businesses earn less money for the same reason and many are forced to lay

off employees, causing a short-term negative impact on the public.

Primary data also confirmed that these types of policy measures do not guarantee

collective welfare, and are only intended to ensure that German creditors charge the debt

that Spain holds with them. They do not facilitate short-term economic growth, which is

  44  

what the country needs to reduce its high level of unemployment and eradicate the poverty

level of 20% that the country faces. It was important to note that perhaps it is time that

countries from the European periphery create a counterpart to the ECB - otherwise the

situation will become increasingly unsustainable (Participant 1). The economic and social

damage caused by the austerity measures will be extremely difficult to repair and will

threaten the Spanish welfare state that has developed in the short history of democracy in

the country.

‘Anyone who assumes that politics should be about ensuring collective welfare and

equitable distribution of power, and that the weak must be protected by

governments, believe that all the austerity measures taken are wrong’ (Participant

1, p.71).

‘What Spain needs is growth and it cannot have growth with the level of debt

hanging over it with austerity, and not being able to print its own money. Britain is

seeing growth because it has its own currency and can print and create money.

Spain cannot do this, so austerity is a nonsense policy which makes things worse.

Spain has no choice; it does not have its own currency’ (Participant 5, p.102).

One recent example of the effects of austerity reforms is Greece, where welfare

cuts and austerity measures which aimed to improve competitiveness are instead causing

severe economic problems. But such reforms are not sufficient to achieve sustainable

growth and achieve the deficit targets agreed by EU. In any case, the growth of the

economy is still limited, and far from creating job opportunities for their citizens

(Monastiriotis, 2011).

4.3. Spain’s competitiveness A noteworthy finding was the claims that in Spain, it is assumed that

competitiveness means selling products at lower prices and offering lower wages to

employees; it is not appreciated that a product can compete because it is high quality, and

that Spain could address the issue of competitiveness by investing in both innovation and

R&D - like other European countries with a high rate of competitiveness such as Finland,

Sweden and Holland - rather than by lowering workers daily wages (Participant 2;

Participant 4).

  45  

The findings correlated with a previous study, which argued that competitiveness

could be gained by either offering consumers better value, by offering lower prices than

competitors or by providing greater benefits and services that excuses higher prices.

Nowadays any competitive advantage that is generated by innovation or creativity involves

large investments in human capital, training and R&D (Porter, 1985).

'…competitiveness is another concept absolutely lacking in rigour [...] if

competitiveness is understood as the best ability to sell outside a country's borders,

we suffer from cynicism, as the economy does not have to be entirely geared

towards the external market' (Participant 2 p.86).

‘Spain is not competitive against Germany, which is who you have to be

competitive against. Again, a big problem with that is that you have the same

currency. If Spain had its own currency, it could let the peseta fall in value so your

exports would be competitive - but you cannot do that. I do not know why they

entered the Euro' (Participant 5 p.104).

A previous study revealed that Spain has a delicate macroeconomic situation, a

factor that causes weakness in competitiveness. Furthermore, it was identified that the

country has serious issues in the key pillars which are crucial for a country to be

competitive globally, such as productivity (ranked 133rd), the labour market (123rd), the

educational system (81st), innovation (44th) and the banking system (109th). Improving

these pillars would be a possible alternative in overcoming the dire situation afflicting Spain

since 2008 (WEF, 2013).

4.3.1. Productivity

The literature stated that a nation is richer than its competitors because the

productivity of its companies is better than that of competitor’s countries, thus gaining a

competitive advantage (Porter, 1990). According to this study, Spain is seeing weaker

growth in labour productivity compared with other northern European countries, which is

why Spain has to improve its productivity to create wealth for the nation. The data

demonstrated that Spanish employees work more hours than in other EU countries but are

less productive; this is why the ECB and the IMF are forcing Spain to reduce wages,

because they believe that Spanish salaries are higher than their productivity levels allow.

This means Spanish workers earn salaries 40% to 50% lower than their counterparts in

northern European countries (OECD, 2012a).

  46  

The responses of the primary data strongly disagreed with this theory, as it came

from the power of the financial markets; the concept of productivity used in general for the

whole economy is not robust, because it would have to be applied to different activities.

The problem is that Spain belongs to the Eurozone and has to compete at the level of

France and Germany, who produce greater quantity, so in effect are more productive

because they have higher added value. There are two ways to be competitive: one, with a

high-quality product at expensive prices, which requires investment in innovation and

technology; two, with low prices based on low wages. Spain can no longer be considered

cheap because it has the currency of a rich country - which is why businesses must

introduce more innovative components, technology and training for workers in order to

enhance their productivity, instead of reducing the wages of workers. In addition, increasing

the minimum wage would be a way out of the crisis as there is currently a shortage of

demand for jobs whilst wages are low; income growth through a rise in wages would

increase both demand and consumption in the country (Participant 2; Participant 5).

‘I do not know why they think we are unproductive citizens. I have not seen any

English people work with the same efficiency as a Spanish person. It is an excuse

to justify the reduction of wages' (Participant 6, p.111).

‘It has to be differentiated according to the economic activities. What occurs is that

some countries that have greater acquired amounts seem more productive because

they have higher value-added, components of technology and innovation and

therefore what should be done is to increase the space these sectors occupy in the

Spanish economy’ (Participant 2 p.85).

4.3.2. Labour Market

By studying the literature and primary data in detail, it was concluded that there was

a significant relationship; the results argued that the figure of unemployment in Spain -

27.16% - highlighted the weaknesses of the country's labour market system. However, the

literature found that the Spanish government recently introduced new labour reform with

the main aim of becoming more a flexible, competitive and productive country. The

government aims to facilitate job creation by reducing the costs of laying-off permanent

workers and motivating businesses to hire more, based on the theory that firms are more

likely to hire workers if they know that, should the market change, they can make people

redundant at any time at minimum cost (Gutierrez, 2013). However the primary data, in

contrast, demonstrated that years after the reform, new jobs have not been created; in fact,

the number of unemployed has increased. This is having negative consequences, as

workers work longer for less money and have fewer rights. The reform has given

  47  

businesses the right to do what they want with their employees (Participant 2).

Participant 3 p.93 also argues that the Spanish government should do 'the opposite

of what is being done - as well as providing more protection for workers, measures

that facilitate the creation of employment for companies, more job security... if there

is no security, there is no confidence when it comes to consuming. There should be

an advance and not a regression in social rights’.

‘…the theory is that companies do not hire because employee dismissal is very

expensive, so they do not want to hand permanent contracts to their employees. On

one hand this theory is good, but this theory does not apply in Spain because

Spanish entrepreneurs are not looking after their employees'. (Participant 4 p.99).

In contrast, participant 5 strongly disagreed with the other respondents when he

argued against the notion that, as it is expensive to make people redundant, firms do not

hire them in the first place. The labour market must be more flexible because businesses

are more likely to employ if they know that, should the market change, they can get reduce

staffing. Moreover, that unemployment is high is not so much to do with labour market

reform as with the general economic situation. It does not matter what reforms the

government makes to the labour market in Spain, as it is the general economic situation

that is the problem. Labour market reform is for the future - it is for the next crisis.

4.3.3. Education

The literature identified that human capital is vital in creating wealth in a nation. The

key pillar to maintaining and developing an economy is the public education system.

However the literature found that Spain currently has one of the highest drop-out rates in

Europe, with 28.4% of students who have not earned the title of ESO. This high failure rate

at school is due to many young people leaving their studies during the housing boom,

attracted by high wages from the construction sector. Additionally, the Spanish government

made education cuts amounting to 62.5% and 11.6% in scholarships and student grants

respectively. Financial support is no longer available to students who have not earned an

average of 6.5 in the academic year. In addition to an increase in tuition fees of 20%, it has

also led to an increase in the drop-out rate. Human capital and innovation are the pillars

that determine the productivity of an economy; without a good education system, there is

no quality human capital (Mengual, 2012).

  48  

The primary data identified that the Spanish education system is failing in

investment and lack of resources. It needs more teachers. Cuts in education will

demonstrably worsen the long-term outlook, having negative consequences on innovation

and the economy of the country. Besides, it has been demonstrated that the socio-

economic problems that exist in Spain hinder the academic success of some students. To

improve education, Spain needs a system that ensures the success of each student by

knowing each student's conditions and limitations in order to eradicate the inequality of

conditions, thus maximising development potential. In Spain there is little personal attention

from the teacher and the system does not produce students with critical thinking faculties.

Critical thinking is essential to create new ideas and products; people need to be critical

enough to identify that something does not work and create alternatives to improve it

through new, innovative ideas (Participant 1; Participant 2; Participant 4).

‘The average grade necessary to be a teacher in our country is of the lowest in the

world (6.5) so the profession is not valued and not seeking the best professionals

for such an important element in a society such as teaching’ (Participant 6 p.111).

‘It is not the same for a student from a rich family to prepare for an exam as a

student from a poor family; when you are poor, you do not have a whole room for

yourself to prepare your examination, your parents are not university graduates,

your family is not surrounded by books, you have not read since childhood and

teaching has not motivated you, with the knowledge that when you have a large

family, living in a flat of 60 square metres and having to share a room with three

brothers, you cannot afford a single book' (Participant 1, p.79).

Moreover, Spanish universities only teach the basics of each subject; they do not

teach students to think critically and be professional.

‘…groups should be minimised, as in England, with seminars of 12 people in order

to obtain personalised treatment. In Spain there is no personal attention from the

teacher so there is no interest in helping people to come out with critical thinking

and a good education’ (Participant 4 p.98).

4.3.4. Innovation system

The literature identified that the Spanish government undermines its system for

innovation; the introduction of the new Law on Science, Technology and Innovation in 2012

may be an important step forward to improve the Spanish innovation system, but recent

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government cuts in R&D will have a negative effect in the short and long term on the

country's economy - as the literature demonstrated, the most innovative countries have

high levels of productivity as well as more sustainable economic growth. Spanish spending

on R&D is below 1.39% of GDP, one of the lowest figures in the Eurozone, where average

R&D expenditure is more than 2% of GDP (Cotec, 2012).

Upon further questioning, participants suggested that Spain must base any

economic growth on innovative activities because the dearth of Spanish businesses in the

innovation sector is leads to poor national productivity. In addition, the government should

incentivise companies, as most countries in northern Europe offer businesses tax breaks if

they invest in R&D. With the delicate economic situation facing the country, businesses

believe it is unwise to invest in R&D; with the uncertain future, they do not want to take

risks until the economic situation improves. Perhaps, during the boom times, there were

insufficient incentives for companies to invest (Participant 5). The Spanish government

should support innovation in renewable energies – in particular solar power, because the

country enjoys the most hours of sunshine in Europe; it is inexplicable that countries such

as Norway have more solar panels that Spain, and that the Community of Madrid has

recently prohibited the installation of solar panels in certain buildings. Once again, this is

just for the benefit of the largest power enterprises (Participant 1).

‘I do not know what the tax situation is in Spain but most countries in the world offer

businesses tax breaks if they invest in R&D. […] Another important thing is of

course are businesses only tend to invest in those things (R%D) if the economy is

growing, or if they perceive the future economy to be expanding’ (Participant 5

p.105).

4.3.5. Banking system

The findings of the literature and primary data contained insignificant contradictions

based on the theory that SMEs constitute 99% of Spanish firms. They are the companies

that create more jobs and provide better conditions for their workers. Today, SMEs do not

have access to liquidity; the impact on access to credit is severely damaging the country's

economy. For this reason, the authorities should support SMEs by restoring credit - the

sooner, the better. Private banks use the assets granted by the EU for their own

restoration, leaving SMEs devoid of the credit required for their development. This is

hurting the Spanish domestic market, the health of which is crucial in overcoming the

uncertainty experienced by the country (Torres, 2010). The ECB has been subjected to

private banks' interests and cannot be considered a public bank, as it has no ability to lend

  50  

to states they lend to private banks at a 1% interest rate, and to governments or private

firms at a minimum interest rate of 5%. It engages in buying the public debt of countries in

crisis, with the assurance that debt will be paid without any risk for them, rather than

looking after the interests of the citizenship and granting loans at low interest rates solely

for the economic benefit of the citizens (Gay de Liébana, 2012).

For this reason, the results of the primary data emphasised that in order for SMEs

to have more financial support, it is necessary to create a public bank to ensure the viability

of credit to households and businesses that are weaker and are more vulnerable. As

private banks are not motivated to help SMEs and leave them deprived of the necessary

credit for their development, it was important to highlight that the authorities should build a

public bank to fulfil this purpose (Participant 1). Also, a more flexible tax system should be

created, depending on the annual profit of the firms themselves; large companies cannot

receive more tax benefits than small family enterprises.

‘…at the moment banks are reluctant to lend but that will change. Moving credit

from banks to businesses is a problem all countries have faced in the last few

years, as banks do not have enough money to lend: that’s why it is called a credit

crunch. But as I said, that will change as banks improve their balance sheets’

(Participant 5 p.106).

4.4. Conclusion This chapter concluded the presentation of a series of results, which ranged from

the triggers of the economic crisis to an analytical discussion of the fundamental pillars that

Spain should enhance in order to acquire sustainable economic growth, and become more

globally competitive. The following chapter focuses on the author's conclusions, which

were reached after an analysis of the results obtained in this study from both the literature

review and the primary data.

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Chapter V

Conclusions and Recommendations

  52  

5. Introduction Presented below are the main themes of the research, referring to the questions

raised in the introductory chapter:

1) The triggers of the Spanish economic crisis

2) Austerity measures, or financial recovery through Keynes´s theories

3) Ending the crisis by improving Spain’s competitiveness

In addition, this chapter provides a series of recommendations as alternatives for

economic growth, which would be sustainable and democratic.

5.1. The triggers of the Spanish economic crisis Everyday, Spanish citizens question what triggered the economic crisis that has

afflicted the country since 2008. The crisis has engendered an unemployment rate of

6,202,700 million (27.16%). This high level of unemployment can often benefit large

companies because citizens must accept working conditions imposed on them or risk

losing their jobs. Of most concern is youth unemployment, which stands at 55.9%. This is

causing a brain drain, as young talent emigrates to seek job opportunities abroad.

This study demonstrates that the backbone of the crisis was speculation by financial

institutions, creating a housing bubble through subprime mortgages; these mortgages

attracted borrowers who could not obtain credit elsewhere as they were considered high

risk. Such bubbles are a collective failure to address the risks. This fuelled the US housing

bubble. Interest rates at that time were low, prompting high demand for subprime

mortgages and causing house prices to increase until the banks lost their liquidity and the

bubble burst - instigating a global crisis.

This property speculation was encouraged by a capitalist system in which people

took on unsustainable levels of personal debt. This is having dramatic social consequences

in Spain: more than 400,000 evictions were caused by the banks' recklessness. Banks

were granting house loans above the real value of the home; now, many contend that

citizens lived beyond their means, when in fact the highest Spanish debt is held by private

banks and public administrations. During the housing boom in Spain, 750,000 houses were

built each year. The revaluation of the houses during the real estate boom was 191%. The

real estate sector employed an average of 13.3% of the total workforce, meaning wages in

the economy rose. However, firms did not invest in improving their productivity levels, so

  53  

when the bubble burst, there were relatively high wages and low levels of productivity.

Businesses began to lay off workers.

5.2. Austerity measures, or financial recovery through Keynes’s theories Institutional rules and regulations are crucially important in creating wealth in a

nation. By signing the Maastricht Treaty in 1992, Spain accepted the weaknesses of

belonging to a European Community with a single currency. It was high risk because the

EC countries were very different, socially and economically. A neoliberal system has been

imposed, where political institutions decide several kinds of measures to benefit the largest

companies and finance capital firms.

The EU was constructed without sufficiently strong democratic instruments. An

example is the creation of the ECB. The ECB is subject to the interest of private banks; it is

not a public bank, as it has no ability to issue its own debt. Moreover, it is not capable of

lending to the states but is able to lend to private banks, so the banks can buy the public

debt of countries in crisis instead of tending to the interests of SMEs.

These institutions are imposing austerity measures on Spain to ensure payment of

debt to private banks (debt which should be audited, because arguably, a large part is

illegitimate and citizens should not pay for it). According to Levinas (1940 cited in Marrewijk

2003, p. 98), ’freedom stops when it interferes with the freedom of others’. This could be

believed with societies acting as markets, but not markets posing as societies, because it is

a big issue. These austerity measures, imposed by the authorities, are dismantling the

Spanish welfare state: the public administrations most affected are health and education.

They are also reducing workers' wages and increasing taxes. These austerity measures do

not guarantee the end of the crisis, but will increase Spain´s current 20% poverty level.

This is what Marx (1978) called 'surplus values', where large entities become richer by

exploiting the working class and the concentration of capital is in a few hands.

The priority of these economic policies links to the problems of deficit and public

debt, and Spain is obliged to comply with austerity measures imposed by EU. It is

noteworthy that other countries in northern Europe, such as Germany, do not suffer high

unemployment - these austerity measures do not cause so much damage to these northern

countries. For an optimal Euro currency zone, all countries involved should have a similar

macroeconomic position with regards to inflation, public debt and public deficit, which is not

the case today.

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Spain should do the opposite to combat unemployment because under these

austerity measures, people do not buy and manufacturers do not sell, so demand reduces,

the number of firms entering bankruptcy increases, and unemployment rises. Spain has led

with these austerity measures for about three years - data indicates that the situation is

worsening.

The results of this study demonstrate that an alternative way out of the crisis would

be to increase the minimum wage, to increase income demand and domestic consumption.

In addition, a significant tax reduction would increase public spending and public

employment - this would increase demand and reduce unemployment. History shows too

that the best way out of crisis is by printing more money, which would have a positive

impact on exports. Unfortunately the EU does not practice this policy of devaluing currency,

in order to keep the Euro strong. The peripheral European countries will increase the

numbers of unemployed and poverty amongst EU citizens. Economic theory claims that

with high unemployment, when resources are underutilized government must improve

through fiscal or monetary policy or through a good combination of both. Economic theory

gives a way to minimise the suffering of citizens in times of crisis and Spain is doing just

the opposite.

5.3. Ending the crisis by improving Spain’s competitiveness Spain needs to improve its competitiveness to recover from the crisis. There are

two ways to be competitive: either with low wages or by increasing productivity. Spain must

choose the second option. With the introduction of the Euro, Spain is no longer a cheap

country. Competitiveness is complex - its most important pillar is education, because we

need a bigger pool of skilled human capital. The development of human capital is crucial to

productivity, which is why Spain should improve its education system by levelling the

playing field amongst students through more one-on-one teacher attention, increasing

resources and creating an education system that produces students who will generate new

and innovative ideas.

The poor Spanish productivity level is due to a lack of innovative ideas and lack of

investment in new technology. In the era of knowledge, competitive advantages are

generated by the innovation and creativity of human capital; competitiveness also improves

living standards in the country.

The government should encourage businesses through tax breaks, if companies

invest in R&D. Both companies and the government failed to invest in these sectors in

  55  

recent years, which is why the consequences of the crisis have been more apparent in

Spain than in many other EU countries. There should also be reform to facilitate

entrepreneurs to open and operate with more flexibility. In Spain it is very difficult to open a

business. For instance, when a company wants to register its firm, it costs money. This

could be made free. Another option is, if the revenue is below 10,000 Euro per year, the

company should not pay taxes. Facilitating SME's access to credit is vital, because SMEs

will extricate Spain from this uncomfortable situation. The wealth of a nation comes from

the knowledge of how to manage these pillars in the most efficient manner possible.

5.4. Recommendations To solve the economic issues in Spain, the country needs to address numerous

changes in areas such as: businesses, the public sector, banking, innovation, labour

market and education, which are the main pillars for a successful modern economy, global

competitiveness and long-term sustainable economic model.

Table 6: Recommendations

§ The EU should make the Maastricht criteria more flexible and alter its fiscal and

monetary measures to support economic incentives and job creation through the

Keynesian model, and not through austerity measures, which are worsening the

economic situation in Spain and other southern European countries.

§ This research demonstrates that Spain`s huge public debt is unsustainable. Public

debt has increased excessively in recent years and some of it due to the Maastricht

Treaty, which does not allow the ECB to lend money directly to EU states.

Furthermore, the ECB lends money to private banks at an interest rate of 1%, who

in turn lend to states at 5% or 7% of interest rate. This is why Spain is paying

around €30 billion in interest each year. It would be highly recommended that the

ECB be enabled to lend directly to states; Spain would then pay only around €6

billion annually on interest from its debt, preventing the growth of public debt. Other

European countries would also benefit from this reform.

§ To improve competitiveness and productivity, businesses must improve their

internal structures, environment, production methods and skills development. Spain

should invest in sectors with higher added value, to adjust its competitiveness to

their current allocations of resources and costs. To advance in this way requires the

  56  

intensive use of new technologies and proper training of workers - production

problems often stem from low technological capabilities and lack of skilled workers.

§ The slow progress of labour productivity compared to wage growth has increased

unit labour costs, and reduced competitiveness - that is why investing in new

technologies and knowledge-based economic model is essential to avoid reducing

citizens wages and decreasing domestic demand.

§ The lack of high-tech facilities and advanced processes is the cause of a poor

productivity and lack of competitiveness in the nation. The institutions create the

rules of the game; these rules could help the country gain a competitive advantage.

Therefore it is recommended that the Spanish government should encourage

companies to invest in innovation and research, via tax breaks to those who invest

in these sectors. This would have a positive effect on Spanish productivity because

the best way to improve productivity is through innovation and technological

components. It also ensures that firms gain competitive advantages over their

competitors. The government should increase expenditure on R&D, as Spain has

one of the lowest budgets of the OECD countries. It should also increase

investment in research projects to prevent brain drain of skilled human capital e.g.

engineers, biologists, and chemists etc., essential to wealth creation. Supporting

economic growth in knowledge, innovation and research delivers a sustainable

long-term economic model.

§ The structural deficiencies of the education system have a negative impact on

national competitiveness. This study emphasises the problems of efficiency in the

education system, lack of resources, lack of knowledge acquired by students and

early school drop-out. The problem in Spain is that the austerity measures and

education cuts are obstructing development of skilled human capital. Spain needs

to increase resources in the education system with more and better teachers.

Creating an educational system, which develops students´ skills and enables them

to implement their ideas, is crucial.

§ The economic situation of many Spanish families means many cannot cope with the

increase in university tuition fees. According to this study, it could lead to a 20%

drop-out rate in the universities next year. One recommendation is to implement a

system similar to the English student loans system, where students access loans

  57  

for higher education courses. Students only repay these loans when they graduate

and their income is high enough to the repay the debt. This arguably gives all young

people from modest socioeconomic backgrounds equal opportunities to enter

university. The interest rate of these loans is linked to inflation, so in real terms the

student is returning a figure similar to the amount borrowed.

§ The IMF believes that Spain is progressing well with its new labour market reform.

However, the labour market reform has yet to fully yield its fruits because it has not

been able to reduce unemployment. Most jobs generated so far are temporary, and

often in low-productivity sectors. Authorities should implement further labour reform

to increase permanent and stable contracts.

§ Without doubt the biggest issue for the Spanish government is the high rate of

youth unemployment. The government should aim to reduce this figure by

encouraging companies with business tax breaks if they offer permanent contracts

to 18-30 year olds. Additionally, the government should provide more public

employment for unemployed youths.

§ Spain needs a banking system that can finance sustainable economic growth. The

main problems to be solved are: to improve the supervision and regulation of the

financial system, clean-up of distressed assets, strengthening solvency levels and

the prohibition of the financial speculation practices through a reform of the Spanish

financial system.

§ Data from this study indicate that banks have tightened access to credit for SMEs

and this is the most urgent problem to be solved in Spain. SMEs create more jobs

and therefore authorities musk support them.

§ The nationalisation of public banks is vital to ensure credit for households and

SMEs, the main drivers of the Spanish economy. Private companies must have

direct access to credit to continue growing.

  58  

5.5. Limitations There were a number of limitations and challenges in the research: one limitation

posed by the qualitative approach was the sample was formed by a small number of

participants,. Consequently, results are difficult to generalise and may not fully represent

Spain's economic crisis and its competitiveness. However, the literature review and primary

data provide valuable information about the causes of the Spanish economic crisis and

potential solutions via the main pillars of competitiveness. Another factor that could have

hindered the potential quality of the data is that the author had limited prior experience in

qualitative research. With more experience, the research could have aided performance of

the participants, enriching the data obtained.

Due to the complexity and scale of the topic, the interview data do not give

comprehensive direct access to the situation and the issues behind Spain´s crisis.

Moreover, there could be a disconnect between the data collected and the study

objectives. In designing the research process, the researcher contacted representatives of

the governing People’s Party (PP), who declined to participate. Likewise, a number of key

Spanish liberal economists were unable to participate due to their busy schedule. However,

this qualitative study indicates a high degree of validity as the results reflect the real

situation in Spain and the interviews are transcribed verbatim prove that the information

was not manipulated by the author (Bell 2005; Biggam 2011; Coffey and Atkinson 1996;

Denzin and Lincoln 2013).

5.6. Scope for further research The case study of this research gives future readers a better perspective of the

current economic crisis in Spain. The case of the Spanish economic crisis is on-going, so it

is difficult to make an effective critique of the situation. It would be interesting to repeat this

research within a few years, interviewing, if possible, the same participants to discover if

they hold the same views on the economic crisis. Quantitative data could be obtained via

questionnaires distributed to Spanish citizens to identify whether their opinions match the

results obtained in this study.

This study raises several hypotheses that in the future would be worthy of

investigation. Firstly, the impact that the austerity measures will have on the long-term of

the country, both socially and economically. Another possibility of serious interest is

whether the peripheral European countries could create a counter to the EU, by auditing

the debts of these countries and refusing to pay the parts of the debts that are illegitimate.

Finally, investigating whether a Euro exit would be a viable decision; or perhaps a chance

  59  

to create two types of Euro, at a different speed in the southern countries where there are

greater economic problems. They could devalue their currency and deal with the crisis.

Logically it would create two, very different Europe’s: the rich and the poor.

  60  

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Appendices

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Appendix A

Royal Decree Law 3/2012

1. Collective bargaining and internal firm flexibility

· The reform aims at turning collective bargaining into an effective instrument for businesses to adapt their working conditions to the particular circumstances of the firm.

· Firm level collective agreements are given priority, so that regardless of what is agreed at a higher level, representatives of workers and the employer may reach an enterprise agreement that suits their specific needs better.

· The reform allows businesses opting out from higher-level collective agreements to better adapt to market conditions.

· To facilitate the bargaining process the reform terminates with the so called ultra activity of collective agreements (unlimited extension of agreements beyond expiration if a new agreement is not in place). The validity of an agreement beyond its expiration is limited to a maximum of two years (which will encourage negotiations).

· Companies will have more flexibility to adapt working conditions. The reform removes the classification system of workers by job category and generalizes the system of professional groups, thus facilitating worker’s adoption of new functions. It is also easier now for the employer to adjust the working conditions (including salaries, working hours and work schedule). It also allows suspending contracts as a temporary adjustment mechanism to falling demand.

· As a result of the higher flexibility, dismissals should turn into a last resort measure.

· The reform also fights absenteeism that may cause the company a significant economical and organizational cost: The law allowed for the employee´s dismissal when his absenteeism was above average. The reform eliminates the link between collective absenteeism and an individual decision of dismissal: from the reform on, individual absenteeism may lead to objective dismissal independently of the average level in the firm.

2. Favouring the effectiveness of the labour market and reducing duality

· Our labour market regulation will be closer to that of other market economies with greater labour market efficiency by clearly promoting permanent contracts reducing duality. More flexible dismissals are allowed for economic reasons, so that the costs of dismissals of temporary and permanent contracts approach.

· Duality will also be reduced as a consequence of the bigger flexibility of firms: as the adjustment to demand conditions can be made through the change in working conditions (including working hours and salaries) there are fewer incentives to maintain a high number of temporary workers to face potential necessary adjustments.

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· Economic causes of redundancy are clarified and defined as a fall on sales or incomes for three consecutive months.· To reduce duality in the labour market the reform generalizes for all permanent contracts a compensation of 33 days per year worked with a maximum of 24 months in case of unfair dismissal (previously 45 days per year with a maximum of 42 months). Compensation for permanent contract termination in case of redundancies for objective reasons is established at 20 days per year worked with a maximum of 12 months.

· The reform opens the possibility of collective dismissals for organizations and entities in the public sector for economic, technical and organizational reasons. This measure aims at facilitating the downsizing of administrative structures.

3. Favouring permanent contracts

A new permanent contract for SMEs (companies with fewer than 50 employees) and self-employed workers is created. The main feature of this contract for entrepreneurs is that it includes a trial period of 1 year, and some fiscal benefits: reductions in the tax bill of 3,000 Euro when hiring the first employee; fiscal reduction of 50% of the unemployment benefits the employee was collecting when hiring an unemployed person; and a system of subsidies targeted at unemployed groups with special difficulties to join the labour market (young people, long-term unemployed).

4. Favouring workers employability

Aiming to reduce the high youth unemployment rate and mitigate the effects of early school dropout, the reform promotes the contract for training and learning: the age ceiling to be eligible for this contract rises to 30 and, after exhausting a training period in an activity, the employee may again use this type of contract in other sectors, thereby enhancing employability and allowing a second chance. In addition, it is now possible for firms to offer training in their own facilities if these fulfil the legal requirements form that purpose. The reform also acknowledges the right to time to train, in order to reduce the risk that the technological changes or other changes could result in the dismissal of workers. At the same time this strengthens the professional training of workers.

Finally, Temporary Employment Firms (ETTs), which have a wide network of offices distributed throughout the territory and experience in the labour market, are allowed to act as private employment agencies. The aim is to reduce the average employment search time spell and to improve the quality of matches so that workers find jobs better suited to their skills and business hire better prepared employees.

Source: Ministry of Economic and Competitiveness 2012.

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Appendix B

Interviews – English version

Interview: Tania Sánchez Melero – Participant 1

(United Left (IU) representative. The IU is the third-largest Spanish political party. She is a

regular contributor to three of the most popular political debate programmes on Spanish

television: La Tuerka, La Sexta Noche and El Gato al Agua)

Question: What do you think were the triggers of the Spanish economic crisis?

Answer - An economic model based on speculation and therefore submission to

bank credit by both businesses and families. Obviously when that failed, because of the

U.S. bankruptcy, it was felt more harshly in Spain because it was the only productive sector

that was maintaining the growth levels we had achieved.

Question - So the idea that we have lived beyond our means is a lie?

Answer - No, what I believe is that this crisis is obviously an excuse to consolidates

a model of society, productivity and state, which is guided by neoliberalism, right? I

believe that in this country the debt was not an exaggeration in any case, not even

in those communities with the largest public and unsustainable debt. This is what

happens when it is decided the public should assume the debts of the banks to

ensure the continuing benefits of the situation; once you have mortgaged all the

properties in speculative projects there comes a situation of real public debt, and

the priority of paying off the bank debt has been absorbed by the public sector. That

is what has brought us to the situation where there is a lack of liquidity in the public

system at all levels. In the daily news we see there are very serious situations in the

municipalities, where they have to decide if they will revolt and decide not to pay the

debt that the government has imposed on them but instead pay the of salaries of

officials who, ultimately, provide the services that guarantee fundamental rights. In

short, it is a crisis of capitalism. As every other crisis, instead of being resolved it is

moved - so the financial crisis was moved from the private sector to the public

sector, with the debt being absorbed by public entities.

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Question: So do you see the Spanish debt as unsustainable and that it should not be

paid?

Answer – What I think is that a serious audit obviously has to be carried out

regarding the debt as we are talking about the money from all the people, as they

are ultimately the ones who own the state. So the debt should be audited, and it

should be made public which part has been absorbed from the banks and which

part was government debt which had been absorbed in an irresponsible manner,

rather than in the public interest. These elements should not be paid.

Question: Would Spain face some negative consequences from Europe in the case of

defaulting on the debt?

Answer - Surely the problem with this situation is that a breakdown of discipline of

the TROIKA plan, as a reflection of the possibility of leaving the Euro, creates a

situation of uncertainty in any country that generates it. What is less uncertain is

that it is a guarantee of poverty amongst the social majority. This is what you have

to start to consider: you cannot support the imposition of the TROIKA when that

involves the general impoverishment of the population. One thing that must be said

at some point is that there are cases worldwide, throughout history, in which

countries have had debts removed when they have failed to pay; there have been

moratoriums, situations where decisions have gone against the interests of financial

entities and in favour of the citizens of each of these countries - and no state has

collapsed, not even Germany, when it decided to stop paying its debt after the world

wars; not even the Latin American nations have collapsed when they decided to

stop subjugating themselves to the dictates of the International Monetary Fund.

None of these nations have collapsed or disappeared from the planet, or have had

worse situations inflicted on their populations. On the contrary, it has stopped the

impoverishment of the population; and I think that is the right way, because there is

no other way. Because what is clear is that the way of the TROIKA is a widespread

impoverishment and you cannot continue to allow it.

Question: Ecuador recently conducted a debt audit and it went quite well. It is a good

example but Ecuador is not part of Europe or of any other community; therefore should

Spain leave Europe so its debt can be audited (meaning it should also leave the Euro)?

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Answer -Spain should seek allies in southern Europe so it could rethink an easy

way out of European politics. I think this is what the country should do and the

perspective that the left-wing parties should take in the next European elections. I

think especially southern European countries should begin betting on a commitment

to the citizens who support left-wing options and who also support an alliance of all

nations, which would form a majority to change the rules of the game in Europe.

Europe is not immutable and even though it was built without any democratic tools

we should not lose hope of converting that idea into reality and start demanding that

European institutions not only be unidentified administrative bodies but should be

part of alliances between nations with democratic criteria, similar to other alliances,

like the Latin American countries. There are shared, respected interests but there

should be no loss of sovereignty and the economic decision-making capacity of

each member country. That is the path but a single country is not going to achieve

it, so they need to start to unifying speeches. There is a hegemonic discourse in

Europe, captained by Germany. We need to have a counter proposal to that

speech.

Question: So do you think the Latin countries of southern Europe should unite?

Answer - We have been allotted a peripheral role in Europe; therefore we are

doomed to our population having no more hope than to be the servants of the

richest nations in Europe. We have to stop and say that our citizens have the same

rights as the rest of Europe - we should provide a decent standard of living to our

citizens and that we will not allow this development model to continue.

Question: What about the austerity policies imposed by Europe? Are they agreeable

policies or do they undermine Spain’s welfare system?

Answer – They are agreeable depending on what the goals are. For the purpose

of those who have decided that the only possible market for large capital is service,

these agreed austerity measures are more or less part of the fundamental rights

which previously constituted the welfare state. Welfare has become a business for

insurers, health companies, educational companies and also a very quick way to

change the thinking, homogeny and civic culture of a continent. Anyone who

assumes that politics should be about ensuring collective welfare and equitable

distribution of power, and that the weak must be protected by governments, believe

that all the austerity measures taken are wrong because they do not guarantee

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growth or offer conditions that will provide a solution to the crisis, in which the 20%

poverty Spain currently has needs to be reduced. There should not be a cycle

where these policies infringe fundamental rights just because people do not have a

job. You have to start thinking that wealth goes beyond enterprise and work. We

must begin to distribute the wealth of the country in order to ensure collective

welfare. All the economic measures that the government is taking do not accord

with breaking this cycle, and this is destroying the welfare state that had developed

in Spain's a brief history of democracy. Until the measures it was developing as

best it could.

Question: If memory serves me correctly, l do not think a country has ever overcome a

crisis with such cutting measures.

Answer - No, of course not.

Question: What are the effective steps to follow for electoral law reform, as we also have

a political crisis?

Answer - I believe that current electoral law does not represent the public's will.

There is a distribution of voting strata, which means that not all the votes are worth

the same, and makes the seats of political organisations require more democratic

support than others. We have presented many proposals. There are simple

solutions, such as to increase the number of deputies and offer the vote to

disenfranchised citizens; currently, the votes of provinces with fewer deputies - and

a system that tends more to the majority and leaves out the minority – loses these

votes like debris. Deputies could be assigned to these votes so they are not lost.

Another alternative is to change the provincial constituency model. This is an

instance that has disappeared from the daily life of Spanish administrations and

corresponds to the Franco era. Constituencies should be allocated to autonomous

regions as it relates more closely to the current institutional model. These measures

are valid for reform in a model that represents democracy and puts its citizens first.

However I think the crisis we are now in is both political and institutional and goes

further. I think that Spain experienced a democratic transition to a society gripped

by fear. The transition was agreed between political elites; even if there were many

elites, all were involved except the nationalists. Plus we have to remember the

Republicans. Despite all of them getting involved it was an agreement for transition

decided by the elites, simply because if these conditions were not met there was a

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big chance it would have ended up being a model of dictatorship.

That meant a gripping situation amongst the population, where they had no say

about a transitional model where there was no alternative and where there was a

widespread desire to escape the black period of history that was the Franco era. I

think this has evolved; we have changed a lot, and we are a more democratic

society. We are politically mature and therefore, with United Left, we are proposing

a reconsideration of whether it is time to draft a new constitutional process in which

the involvement of the citizenry redefines the rules of the democratic game. The

election laws are an important discussion and we should not only talk about how to

distribute the representativeness but also mention commitment to transparency

regarding party funding. The things we are now seeing are dynamiting the good

work of democracy.

Question: I think with that you have answered the next question: Do you think these

measures would end the bipartisanship?

Answer – Yes, I think it would be much better. The bipartisanship in this country, in

my opinion, concerns not only the matter of the simple alternation of the two major

parties - meaning we have to think of electoral law reform so it accommodates other

options – the bipartisanship is also a way of perpetuation of an economic and social

model of development, where powerful figures who were not standing for elections

were sent, meaning large firms and financial markets have retained the economic

and political power of the country: the IBEX 35 companies and the banks. This

maintains the economic power of the elite, so you have to keep a close eye on

things because, in essence, it is the same as after the coup. After the transition the

parties were left with the economic power, therefore it has not been distributed

democratically and transferred to the people. That has to change: the two-party

saga is a way of perpetuating this, so bringing an end to the two-party saga would

be a way of expelling many of the dark secrets from the public sector.

Question: I was always told that the Spanish transition was a model example, but now I

can see it was not like that...

Answer - I think that in this country there has been a state policy regarding

memory. Many of the countries, which have experienced horrific dictatorships, have

constructed dignified political memories of those who fell for democracy, yet in this

country there has been a policy of forgetfulness and of exalting ridiculous figures. It

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is doubtful these figures played a role for the benefit of all the citizens but rather that

they were serving personal interests. I think the Spanish transition was a process

that could probably not have been done in any other way, and now is not the time to

talk back to those who led it and were able to build democracy; but we must say

that circumstances have changed, and that it is one thing to recognize that there

was no other way to make that transition, and another thing is to take into account

that it was a model for a transition and that its protagonists have been heroes in the

history of this country. The heroes were those who fell defending the Republic and

this country needs its people to participate in a democratic model if we want to be

an advanced democracy where certain things do not happen.

Question: And what do we do about corruption? Would a transparency law be a solution in

fighting against political and economic corruption?

Answer - Corruption is not only a problem of individual morality - corruption is a

substantial element of capitalism. It is part of the system, and as long as there is no

control in the process of democratization in the economy and the parliament seats,

corruption will be around. There will be mischief whilst companies can donate and

receive public contracts without being asked for the details, and we keep talking

about a treasurer instead of talking about all the companies that have benefited

from public money without us knowing how much they have gained at our expense.

That will continue to happen. The transparency law would indeed be a breakthrough

but I believe it would act as a smokescreen rather than an exercise of open

information. We must change the culture of democracy of the country to advance on

the path of true transparency; it is not enough to change a law requiring more

disclosure of certain procedures, or requiring more knowledge on the part of the

population. We have to make an effort. The question is whether some people want

to, because people are involved in democracy and that is not just a transparency

law. We must make an effort to train our people, to give them an appreciation of

democracy. Certainly the transparency law could be a first step, and though I

sincerely believe it is being debated behind closed doors, it is not truly transparent.

Question: Is there any country that has a policy of transparency that is working properly?

England, for example?

Answer - I believe that the Nordic countries are moving towards that now. I do not

know if Norway has slightly more advanced legislation and I think there are

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examples of some states that are moving forward. I do not have any specific results

with me of how they are being evaluated, but I think there is evidence that some

countries are better than us. In countries such as Germany, if they discover that

someone has falsified a CV they are automatically dismissed and have to leave

their office; here in Spain, we found that the president maintained a close

relationship with a confessed corrupt official at the time that he was on trial, and he

has not even gone to the parliament to explain their relationship.

Question: In England, the Minister of Transport goes to work by the metro, he is a good

example...

Answer – For sure. There is also a vital point to that, which is to break this culture

and idea that the leaders of a country are the elite, and that they are above the rest

of the public. I think this is another one of the failures of the democratic model -

when a democracy becomes not an expression of the will of its people but instead

sees someone temporarily representing the interests of the people. They become

an elite, which enjoys tremendous privileges, and conditions that far exceed the

needs of those who hold positions in public office. I think that obviously politicians

must have decent wages and facilities to perform their functions, but to then take

the leap and turn them into an elite? That is something that should never have

happened. It is an outrage that one cannot find the ministers of the current

administration - or the one before, or any time - dining in a common restaurant.

Instead they go to places where the bills are well above the minimum wage.

Question: What would be the reforms needed for the perfect tax system in Spain?

Answer - I believe there is data that shows what we should do. Technicians from

the treasury office, deputy inspectors and professional associations reported that

75% of tax fraud occurs in large companies, banks and multinationals, which

involves only 0.01% of the economic contribution of public funds and yet accounts

for 72% of the fraud. This is neither recognised nor resolved, so it is a priority for

any government to fight tax fraud in the areas in which it occurs most easily - that is

to say, large companies. A country where 85% of income tax revenue comes from

payroll productivity rather than capital, which is only taxed at 15%, is an outrage. I

think the ones that have more should pay more, especially those who are receiving

the wealth of the workers. Currently, it does not matter if a worker has his wages

taxed and has nothing left; yet a company is taxed on its economic activities and

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thus avoids taxes from its investments. This scenario should end. Ultimately it is a

basic thing; it is a tax model with more direct than indirect tax and also a

progressive tax, which does not make sense because the situation we have in this

country is six million unemployed; 40% of young people unemployed; 20% of the

population in poverty and VAT rising, as it is a tax where we all pay the same,

whether we have an income of €100 or €100,000. Plus there is no major tax

change like the HNWIs and SICAV, the banking taxes and a number of tax reform

elements that have to go in line with fraud controls as you control production

income and wage income. Like when you do not declare part of your income you

get caught, likewise you have to control tax evasion and those who earn more

should pay more.

Question: The Spanish constitution also states that taxes should be progressive, right?

Answer - Well that is perhaps one of the problems that have arisen from the spirit

of the transition. We have a constitution that says the wealth of a country should be

divested to the welfare of the group; that collective interest must come before

private interests and public interests; that economic policy should ensure that

wealth is distributed. The constitution states that the right to housing is a

fundamental right, yet the government allows people to be ejected from their homes

and challenged before the constitutional court on their evictions (in Andalusia). The

constitution decrees that the government should defend families expelled from

houses rather than coming to the aid of the banks before the citizens, yet the

political parties effect change quickly and without public consultation papers

submitted to the whole constitution on the issue of debt, thus negating the first

article which says that Spain is a social and legal state. If we cannot have money to

be a social state then we are violating the constitution – after all this, which is when

the public decides that if this constitution is not worth it, let’s make alterations to it.

Thus it seems inadvisable that the socialist party has already designed and

proposed the implementation of an elite, constitutional amendment without the

contribution of the population. I believe that when a country has adhered to a

constitution that has not been enforced, a constituent process needs to occur, as is

happening in Latin America. It is not a problem if you have to change the rules of

the game, as this is the common project of societies that advance democratically.

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Question: Should the minimum wage be raised? Spain has nearly the lowest wages in

Europe (€ 728). Also, would it be sustainable to raise the pensions with the instability we

have?

Answer – Regarding the pensions I think we on the left wing were wrong to allow a

debate as to whether pensions are sustainable or not. A society cannot permit or

consider abandoning the weaker population, the population that has been working

all their lives, trading and giving their labour to the wealth of the whole country. We

should not allow the notion of leaving them without income to be discussed or

raised as an option. If, right now, there are no funds for the pensions, it is not

because of how many pensioners there are, or what the retirement age is: the

problem is that we have little contributions because we have little employment. So

the priority must be to ensure that there is more work so more people are trading

and more large companies are listed. Regarding the minimum wage, the problem is

when governments decide to forget that the capitalist system is a system of

domination and exploitation, in which there is no fair exchange of contracts to

construct a work force - the powerful, who have the means of production, buy the

weak’s labour, so there is an unequal exchange. The public authorities can either

protect the weak or allow the powerful to take advantage of that situation. So of

course you have to raise the minimum wage and you have to recover the labour

relations policy in which the state protects the weaker half of that relationship and

ensures that fear cannot be exercised as a weapon, where people are willing to sell

their labour power at almost bargain prices. Because that is the problem: that large

employers hire for €400 by exploiting people, hiring illegally or making employees

work overtime then not paying them, because they are allowed to get away with it.

The workers do not fight because they cannot do it - they know that they are

vulnerable and that they can put their lives in danger. This is crazy and only a

government concerned with its citizens can change this relationship.

Question: The European Central Bank, Germany, the International Monetary Fund, say

that wages are too high in Spain because it is not a productive country. How can the

productivity of a country rise without having to drive down wages? There must be other

methods.

Answer – It is curious that those who designed the model of Europe, where we

have been allocated the role of Eurovegas across the continent, now tell us that we

are not productive because they have chosen to be. However they are productive

because they sell us low pay. What is impermissible is this unequal relationship in

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which I take advantage of your conditions and force you to keep these conditions

because I will not assume that you are as productive as me. I think we need to

reconfigure this reality across the whole of Europe. Indeed I believe that we must

also begin to suggest that the European Central Bank is subject to private banking

interests and is not a public bank. The ECB has no ability to issue its own debt, is

not capable of providing to the states but instead lends to banks, only for those

banks to then lend with interest at 10 times the value of what are ultimately received

as rent. It is not a democratic institution and therefore not geared to distribute power

– and ultimately this is the value of democracy.

Question: Adam Smith said that human capital is essential for creating the wealth of a

nation. Spain has 28.4% school dropout, which is almost the highest in Europe. How do

you think we can improve this situation? Can the new law imposed by the PP improve it?

Or do you believe that these such negative statistics will not change?

Answer - The problem with the PP is its expression of neoliberalism, which is not

seen elsewhere in Europe. Its policies do not get to the roots of the problems. They

are used as objective data - 28% of school failure justifies reform that is not

touching on the reasons for that failure, because it has not even been analysed. If

we carefully study the same OECD report that ranks our school failure rate, the

main reason identified for school failure is inequality in terms of access and the

study conditions of the population; there is a brutal gap conditioned by the socio-

economic elements of the students and no intervention to bridge the gap. Mandela

said that education is the only tool the poor have to revolt against the powerful and

avoid being dominated; the problem is that the poor do not use that tool. The

Finnish model, which not only states that schools have to hit their goals but that the

system must guarantee successful individual students, involves knowing the

conditions of each student to reach the maximum development potential. This is not

being done in this country – there is no intervention regarding the inequalities

caused by an uneven playing field and on academic outcome. As long as we do not

act on this we will continue in the same manner. The model law being imposed by

the education minister, Jose-Ignacio Wert, is not going down that road but rather in

the opposite direction, by segregating students from the beginning and thus cutting

off those failing from those who are succeeding. I do not know if that will work better

with those who are not failing. I doubt it, but of course it will not produce

improvement in the results of those who are being abandoned, because now all it

does is abandon them earlier.

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Question: The truth is I can identify with what you have said. I only studied in Spain at

EGB - my degree and my Masters I have done in England. I have hearing problems and so

I felt quite abandoned during my studies in Spain; I saw no help from the teachers. Plus my

family is from Granada; because of economic problems we moved to Mallorca, where they

speak Catalan. I had a hard time adjusting to the new language. The truth is that in my own

country it became much more difficult to study than in a foreign country like England.

Answer – Of course. The problem is not addressed. I am a social education

professional and as a graduate student in the late '90s I studied programmes which

started in the late '80's, with this idea of educational diversification - meeting the

special needs of both situations like yours, and with situations that have more to do

with family conditions. It is not the same for a student from a rich family to prepare

for an exam as a student from a poor family; when you are poor, you do not have a

whole room for yourself to prepare your examination, your parents are not university

graduates, your family is not surrounded by books, you have not read since

childhood and teaching has not motivated you, with the knowledge that when you

have a large family, living in a flat of 60 square metres and having to share a room

with three brothers, you cannot afford a single book them so you have to go to the

public library; if you study at the times you can; and if, on top of that, you have to

work part-time, because your parents cannot afford everything on their own and you

have to pay your college tuition (because there are scholarships which are even

more expensive); what it all means is that a person who has lower economic

conditions has to expend ten times more effort to achieve the same result. This

obviously is shameful in a democratic country.

Furthermore, education is something that had been discussed in the '80s. I repeat

that I am an educator by profession and when we studied this, we studied the

influence of socioeconomic and family conditions on academic performance and the

personal development of the individual in cognitive abilities. Of course there is a

great influence. Children of wealthy families, whose parents are college educators,

learn the simple act of reading long before less-favoured children because their

parents read newspapers regularly and books are normal them; so they motivate

their children, because they read them. A family where the parents are not

university educated and have no reading habit often does not motivate its children.

If we want a developed society we have to make up for the state - there is no other

way.

  80  

Question: Let us discuss the questionable efficiency of the labour reform imposed by the

current government. Spain had five million unemployed before the introduction of the

reform and currently the figure is over six million. Is it a failure? How would the labour

reform need to be improved to create jobs?

Answer - - The problem of the five labour reforms in this country which have come

from either the PP or the PSOE is that they continue to believe in the union

complaint that the laws create the labour market; it is not true. The labour market is

configured by the production system of a country, so when you have a production

system based solely on the brick, what you have is a production system based on a

precarious sector. All you can do about the labour laws of the production system is

ensure that although, for better or worse, the weaker part of the relationship is the

employee and all the reforms have failed to intervene in the production system, that

the laws protect the rights of the weak, which they have thus far failed to do. The

latter is an auction: I have come this morning from the courthouse of the Community

of Madrid, where all agreements have been suspended for now. It is chaos. The

employment relationship depends on the shift manager granting certain privileges

that were previously reflected in contracts. This is a public sector that had excellent

conditions: imagine the catering, mechanics, the doers, builders, drivers ... there is

an entire population that is unprotected. Your employer can do exactly what that

they want. It does not create jobs but destroys them. It is stupid to think that if we

make firing conditions more flexible it will produce work and will result in no more

layoffs. If it is cheaper I am going to lay off more staff; but I will hire more? No, I

have no need. I think it is crazy and we have to start again. However it is important

to stress that labour law should serve to defend the weaker party and create more

jobs, thus modifying the production system.

Question: In theory, private companies prove to be more efficient and effective than public

firms given the environment where they develop. What would be the reason for

nationalizing the strategic sectors?

Answer - I think so. I believe the fundamental key to improving the situation of the

southern European countries is that we have sovereignty; we currently have no

sovereignty because we have ceded it to Europe. This is clearly visible in the

economy; therefore we must regain the ability to make decisions about the

economy. The nationalized public banks should care about guaranteeing credit to

ensure the welfare of citizens through public investment, and ensure there is a

  81  

criterion that prioritises the interests of society against corporate profits, such as in

the case of financiers. In the case of energy it is much more important; it is not just

a question of what is necessary. In today's world we need access to energy for

decent living conditions; however there is another aspect, which is the

environmental impact generated by the production or extraction of certain energy

systems. Committing to one model or another is something we owe to future

generations. If a company has to think about what is in its best interest it is going to

think short term; a company does not care if there will be any benefits in the year

2050 because energy is a gamble. Therefore the strategic elements not only ensure

fundamental rights and the welfare of society, but also that production and energy

exploitation is sustainable according to criteria for future generations. I think in this

country it is a key thing. Why are there more solar panels in Norway than in Spain?

Here the daylight hours are much more productive. It is understood that there are

communities that have decided to invest in solar farms and clean energy

production; yet there is no change in Madrid because it has decided panels can be

installed only in certain buildings and at energy productivity rates. Anyone who

thinks that is a plan does not respond to the collective interest but in the interests of

large companies who want to keep doing strong business. Strategic sectors

therefore have to be in the hands of the state, because only the state can ensure

that what governs sectors' productivity and production is the interest of society and

not their owners.

Question - One last question. More than 99% of Spanish companies are SMEs, which

form the engine to maintain and create jobs. Private banks uses most of the assets

pledged by the European Community for their own benefit, leaving companies lacking the

credit necessary for their development. Should banks display more solidary with the SMEs,

or should a public bank be created for this purpose?

Answer - Certainly if there was a public bank, the priority would be to ensure the

viability of credit for families and businesses which create jobs, because they are

weaker and are the most vulnerable in this country. Actually, only 1.1% of taxed

companies are large companies: most are small businesses. That not only relates

to the subject of banking; you have to start gambling in sectors such as trade and

liberate small businesses. The delay in payments, and the number of companies

closing in Spain, is amazing. I think that the laws that have been initiated for

entrepreneurs and small businesses think too short term; we have to begin taking

very seriously the fact that these companies are those that actually produce the

  82  

largest number of jobs in this country. Therefore they need financial guarantees,

such as credit viability adapted to the conditions of small businesses and tax

systems relevant to the economic characteristics of each company. Large

companies should not enjoy more tax benefits than a small business which is

working really hard to move forward; for example, maybe a family which employs

two or three people. There are some who reach that level.

-Well, thank you very much. That will be all.

  83  

Interview: Juan Torres López – Participant 2

(Professor at the University of Seville in Department of Economic Theory and Political

Economy. Also, he is the author of over 15 books on economy)

Question: According to your point of view, what triggered the Spanish crisis?

Answer: Well, basically I think on the one hand it was the impact of the

international economic crisis and on the other hand, it was the crisis of a production

model based on the housing sector, where there was such a big bubble that finally

burst.

Question: Then do you think that we have lived beyond our means? Because that is what

they want us to believe.

Answer: No, I do not think so. That is just a very absurd way of speaking. It is just a

moral judgment, which makes people feel guilty.

Question: What is the correlation between the economic crisis and the Spanish political

and institutional crisis?

Answer: There has always been political crisis in Spain. It is just that the crisis also

generates a space of social confrontation because the different social groups have

different points of view. The dominant groups – by which I mean the groups with

more economic and financial power - are trying to impose an answer to the crisis.

This answer is very different from the preferences of society. These groups believe

that they need to ignore these preferences. But if they do this, they will be acting out

of their political representativeness. This is what triggered the democracy crisis we

are having.

Question: Is the Spanish debt legitimate and sustainable as its creditors claim? Should it

be renegotiated? Or should we stop paying it temporarily?

Answer: First of all, we should analyse it and see where it comes from. We need to

know if there are some reasons to repudiate it. I think that there are enough

reasons to do this. This proves that part of this debt is caused by the manipulation

of some markets and the speculators. But above all, the financial expense and the

interests could have been dedicated to this if the private banks had not enjoyed so

many privileges.

  84  

Question: Should an audit be done?

Answer: Exactly, one should be done.

Question: Would Spain have negative consequences imposed by Europe in the event of a

non-payment of debt?

Answer: Not by the EU, but yes by some creditors. However as long as there is a

purse there will is always be conflict, which will have consequences. The

speculators will want to do something about it. We need to negotiate an argument

and attain political and social strength.

Question: Would it be viable if Spain left the Euro zone?

Answer: Yes, it would be. But logically it would be very problematic. It would carry

many problems but any other social decisions would also carry a lot of problems.

Question: Regarding the austerity policies imposed by Europe: do you think they are

sensible measures or do they threaten the Spanish welfare state?

Answer: I think these measures benefit large financial groups or corporations.

These groups or corporations can dominate the governments. That is the way it is

at the moment and this is what we need to fight against. We need to get society to

impose its will.

Question: You have said on more than one occasion that a high unemployment rate

benefits the capitalist governments and big corporations. What is the basis of this

statement?

Answer: Unemployment, logically. This weakens the working classes. When

somebody is unemployed, the only thing that matters is finding a job, no matter the

conditions of the job. So companies can do whatever they want with employees.

Question: What would be an ideal tax system for future tax reform in Spain?

Answer: Well, actually there are no perfect policies. There are characteristics that

approximate certain social preferences. If you are a renter or a financial speculator

you will believe that the ideal tax system would be one which is not applicable to

capital income. If you are a worker, you will hope that the tax system is more

generous about your income. I think that the tax system is the result of the conflict

between the different social classes.

  85  

Question: Regarding wages, Spain has a minimum wage of 728 euros. It is nearly the

lowest wage in Europe. The same happens with the pensions. Would it be viable to

increase both?

Answer: It would be a solution to get out of this crisis. Spain has a problem with

domestic demand because our wages are very low. In order to end the crisis we

need to increase income and consumption. For this reason it is essential to

increase the minimum wage.

Question: The minimum inter-professional wage has decreased in the last few years, the

excuse being that Spain was not productive enough compared to Europe. How could Spain

be more productive without decreasing wages?

Answer: First the concept of productivity used in general for the whole economy is

absurd, because you have to apply it to different activities. A German hairdresser is

as productive as a Spanish hairdresser and I do not think that a German waiter is

more productive than a Spanish one. It has to be differentiated according with the

economic activities. What occurs is that some countries that have a greater

acquired amounts seems more productive because they have higher value added,

components of technology and innovation and therefore what should be done is to

increase the space in which these sectors occupy in the Spanish economy.

Question: Human capital is essential to create wealth in a nation, so it is necessary to

keep and develop the public education system. What would be the legal framework for the

reform of a deficient education system caused by high student failure in medium education

and the ineffectiveness of Spanish universities, which do not facilitate suitable work

insertion?

Answer: Failure in investment and resources, to be more successful. Keep in mind

that the Spanish educational system has in the last 30 years incorporated an

immense number of people. As many people have joined the educational it is

normal to have many difficulties. I think we really need more resources, more

attention, more professors and an environment of culture. Family and society also

influence educational success. That is why we have a 28% dropout.

  86  

Question: Let's discuss the efficiency of the current labour reform imposed by the current

Government. We know that Spain had five million people unemployed before this reform,

and yet today Spain has more than six million unemployed. Is this reform a failure? How

could this reform be improved in order to create employment?

Answer: It has been a success according to their plans: eliminate the rights and

the capacity of negotiation of the workers, and make it easier for the firms to fire

their workers.

Question: But they said this reform was intended to create more jobs, to make the country

more productive and competitive, did not they?

Answer: They already knew they were not going to achieve that.

Question: Private corporations are said to be more efficient and effective than public

corporations. What would it be the sense of nationalising the strategic sectors?

Answer: There are some sectors where it is unnecessary to see benefits but if

these kinds of sectors are successful in the private sector they should be successful

in the public sector too. In other words, these strategy sectors could be equally

effective or even more so if run by the government.

Question: More than 99% of Spanish corporations are SMEs, which create and keep jobs.

Should the banks be more supportive of them?

Answer: Well, SMEs create more jobs and therefore we must take care of them.

What happens now is that we actually mistreat the SMEs and do not allow them to

increase our domestic market, something that is critical to do. Indeed it is the SMEs

who require more support, and a much larger presence in the Spanish economy.

Question: Spain is said not to be a competitive country. What should we do to improve our

competitiveness?

Answer: The competitiveness is another concept absolutely lacking in rigour. It is

quite complex. If competitiveness is understood as the best ability to sell outside a

country’s borders, we suffer from cynicism, as the economy does not have to be

entirely geared towards the external market. In any case we can look at countries

that are more competitive in our environment such as Sweden, Denmark, and the

Netherlands. They are very competitive and we can see how they are working and

compare it with how we do. Then of course there are different ways of dealing with

competitiveness; it can be done through innovation, quality and other

  87  

competitiveness through the impoverishment of lower daily wages. Clearly that it

does not have the same result, right?

Question: Lately, the Minister of Economy has said that we are getting out of the crisis. Do

you think that this situation is going to improve in the short term?

Answer: No, I do not and I do not think the Minister does either. He is trying to

mislead people. He is been saying this for the last three or four years but it is not

related to what is currently happening, believe me.

Question: How long is this crisis going to last? It seems any figure indicates that more or

less, the crisis will continue.

Answer: We are still in crisis. However the most important thing is not when we get

out of it, but how?

  88  

Interview: Javier Fernández Cruz – Participant 3

(Member of 15M Movement, which aims to show discontent with Spanish politicians and

their economic measures)

Question: What are the most relevant 15M ideas?

Answer: The principal idea is the motto that appeared during the demonstrations,

which is that is that we are not just merchandise in the hands of politicians or

bankers. This was the implicit proposition of political bipartisanism in the hands of

the bank.

Question: What are the triggers of the economic crisis in Spain?

Answer: In my opinion, the crisis comes from further back than we think. The crisis

of values came from Spain's leap into a finance-based economy, the debt, the real

estate bubble, etc. I believe it comes from having a finance-based economy, a crisis

of capitalism itself.

Question: Is it then false that we have been living beyond our means?

Answer: Not really. If you do not earn enough money, if you have not got a decent

salary to be able to afford basic needs, such as a house, or to go on holiday ten

days a year. Some may have been, but the majority of people have not. If your

salary is not good enough to afford the basic cost of living, then you end up needing

to ask for credit. Once this happens, your salary belongs to the bank: the facts are

there.

Question: Is the Spanish debt legitimate and sustainable, as creditors claim, or should it

be renegotiated and payments suspended for a certain period of time?

Answer: What I believe, first of all, is that a large part of the debt is illegitimate.

Secondly, the debt does not belong to the Spanish people: it belongs to private

companies who have been gambling with the money. You cannot declare the profit

is private but the debt is public. Thus most of the debt that Spain has as a country,

as a nation, is not legitimate because it belongs to different financial organisations.

From my point of view, this debt should be declared illegitimate and not be paid.

  89  

Question: What would the negative consequences imposed by Europe be, in case the

debt went unpaid? Would the damage done by non-payment be less harmful to the

recovery of the country's economy?

Answer: This is more proof of the lack of democratic practice and transparency in

the European Union. We are in the European Parliament, which is hardly

representative in itself, and where Spain wields only an average influence; in

addition to this, most laws are made for and backed by private companies. This

situation implies a total lack of democratic practice in the EU. We need another EU -

this one is not good enough for us. We could either leave it or change it, but what

we have now is not worth staying in. A European society with all the problems we

are experiencing - from the Greeks, who are starting to fail again, always wobbling,

to the Germans - where regular citizens are deprived of their democratic practices,

because we are ruled by large corporations. I am not an economist; although

economists do also claim they do not want this EU that the existing state is

uncontrollable with what there is in the EU - for example Norway or Sweden.

Europe is a relatively recent thing.

Question: Regarding the austerity measures, are they a good choice or do they threaten

the Spanish welfare system?

Answer: I am personally against them. Firstly, because these measures are

affecting the lives of the majority of the population. Secondly, because they are

completely unfair and show there is a hidden agenda relating to privatisation of

welfare. That is a political decision.

Spain has one of the most efficient, low cost healthcare systems in Europe

compared to the much-praised North American private healthcare system; we have

better care and longer life expectancy. The cutbacks are already taking a toll on a

life expectancy that is already decreasing, with a rise in mortality. This is because

people sometimes cannot afford basic treatment when they have to choose

between food and prescriptions. We are not allowed to choose what drugs we buy;

not even as final consumers. However hospitals cannot decide either, as their

decision-making power has been diminished to the point of deciding which

minimum needs to be met first. Then there are the taxes. There are certain

companies who have tight bonds with some members of the current government.

These are things that showcase how political, rather than economic, certain

decisions are.

  90  

Question: What would be the most effective steps for a reform of the electoral law?

Answer: Well I do not know, there is where we want to end the game, where we

want to have our say in the type of state we want, the type of Europe we want and

the measures necessary to prevent a situation like this from happening again. What

we definitely do not want is a president of the Constitutional Tribunal who is a

member of a political party. We cannot have this nonsense of false independence of

powers.

Neither can we have a EU that is at the total service of corporations. It is perfectly

clear that all the members of the former executives have ended up working for

energy supply companies. What all Spaniards pay for most is the electricity bill, the

made-up debts of the electricity companies. This proves that we need to establish

new rules for the game. I do not know, I am not a communist but I do believe that

we need to see something that overcomes the finance-based economy and works

with a real economy, as the current economic system is based on creating money

out of thin air. This system gives away large amounts to everybody and in the end

there are large corporations sucking money from the public system, money we all

own. When a public company has profits, these do not come back to us in terms of

shares, they have a repercussion on the things that we all can benefit from. I am not

saying all companies should be public, but what is being done right now means that

money is taken away from the public system to give it to the ones who already have

a lot of money. I believe that a substitutive process is needed, and from that point

onwards it will be decided what Spain and EU we want.

Questions: What would the 'perfect' electoral system be, as opposed to the current

bipartisanism?

Answer: Well, I think it is urgent that not only a transparency law is created but also

that corruption rights do not prescribe. Anybody involved in a court process should

be suspended; for appearances of honesty the suggestion should come from the

own person, but the law should enforce it if that it is not the case. Instead what we

have now is effective impunity.

Currently both the majority parties, PP and PSOE, are currently experiencing record

low levels of popularity. I do not know what is going to happen or who will rise next,

but the electoral system benefits these two parties and is currently exhausted.

  91  

Question: What measures should a new transparency law include to fight political and

economic corruption?

Answer: A body of dedicated inspectors to conduct serious prosecution of large

companies, as the majority of tax evasion and corruption occurs in large

companies. Fiscal fraud being prosecuted would result in more money, which would

help across all areas. However, what is happening now is that this fight does not

seem to be convenient for a few.

Question: Would this help to maintain the pensions scheme, which is one of the current

problems in Spain?

Answer: It would help a bit for everything, but it is not a universal solution. It would

also help people to pay their taxes because there is the general impression that the

wealthy defraud the state more than the poor, which is true. What moral authority

do you have to tell a sole trader who struggles to make ends meet that they have to

pay their taxes, when medium and small companies usually pay punctually whilst

large company executives, owners and CEOs steal big money and get away with it?

Under what authority can you tell that sole trader that they are defrauding 50 Euros

when others are waltzing off with millions? I think a law to prevent this would make

society more morally right.

Question: The Central European Bank, Germany, the International Monetary Fund,... they

tell us that the salaries in Spain are too high for a country with such low productivity. How

could productivity be increased without having to lower salaries? Surely there must be

other ways...

Answer: Well, the productivity argument is a lie. Even if we worked 17-hour days,

we would not be productive. I think they just made it up, as I only see hard-working

people. What is 'being productive' anyway? It is a word to fill their mouths, but what

does it mean? Why should we work more hours, if there are six million unemployed

people? Why should not we work fewer hours and split the jobs? This way people

would have more time, consume more, be less tired... when people work too many

hours they get tired, are more prone to having accidents and making mistakes or

falling ill. The solution would involve having decent salaries and shorter working

times.

Question: Is it viable to raise the Minimum Wage and the pensions in the current economic

climate of instability, as your programme claims?

Answer: Yes, of course it is. For example take France: our situation is not as bad

so far as to reach a point of no return. If salaries rise, consumption increases. If

  92  

only everybody got paid 1000 per month... The MW in Spain is much lower than in

the Scandinavian countries. The MW should be increased to provide people with

more acquisitive power, meaning they would be able to spend more and thus be

more likely to spend. That would work out better according to capitalist precepts.

Question. Adam Smith stated that human capital is essential to create richness for a

nation. In Spain there is a school drop-out rate of 28% during the ESO (12 to 16 years old),

almost the highest in Europe. How do you think we could improve this situation? Will the

new law proposed by the PP be able to improve it or will it have no effect on the negative

figures we have?

Answer: This is a more complex matter. We come from a poorer country with

limited access to culture. Schools teach the culture of the middle and wealthy social

classes, with which children cannot relate. What I mean is that it is clear that

teaching methods in our schools must change. A different public school needs to be

designed; public funding for education is poor, whereas grandiose projects have

received loads of money from public investment. If more money had been invested

in funding public schools and there was more teaching training, school failure would

be reduced.

First of all, universities should not teach how the private sector works, they should

teach people to think and be able to decide for themselves what they will do in the

future. Teachers need professional updates; they do not need to teach you how a

Samsung machine works. They should teach you the strategies to learn for yourself

how to use it: a general mind frame, a background.

Universities do not need to be training grounds for companies; in fact companies do

not invest anything in education. In fact they should be the first ones to enable

people to teach. With the grants given, students should not have such a hard time

when they enter full time employment, because in theory they should have a tutor.

Even if school failure is one of the highest in Europe, scientific studies in Spanish

universities are amongst the most prestigious. Huge advances have been made,

which have never been experienced before; yet funding’s have been cut. For a

more social and democratic university, forms must change, no more lifelong tenures

for professors.

Question: What are your qualifications?

Answer: Superior technician in IT administration, BA (hons) in English Philology,

Masters in Education and I am currently preparing a PhD.

  93  

Question: Should Spain invest more in investigation and innovation?

Answer: An article is being put together about the fallacy of profitability in R&D.

Anything researched will sooner or later end up producing results, especially in

science but in more humanistic pursuits as well. R&D funding’s should not be cut.

However, there must be some control. What is worth the most nowadays is Viagra

and the largest investigative journals are funded by pharmaceutical companies. In

the same way that the economy has always been funded by the largest

corporations, if they do not agree with what you do, your work does not get

published. These companies are cramping freedom to investigate because they

want scientists to participate in as many investigations as possible. This should not

be the parameter to evaluate investigations; an external institution, which allows

more participation and is more democratic, is required.

Question: Let's discuss the questionable efficiency of the employment reform imposed by

the current government. Spain had 5 million unemployed people before its implementation;

at the moment, the figure is over 6 million. Is the reform failing? How should the reform be

improved to generate employment?

Answer: The big question! Innovation has to be real; innovation in renewable

technologies. Spain is the sunniest country in Europe, so investing in renewable

energies is something we lack. We are living in this post-industrialised world where

production means have been taken to third-world countries where there are no

rights for workers. We should focus on research. Science is fundamental, as well as

better delegation of work. In the current situation we need a minimum rent so that

people do not starve. People paying minimum rent are not going to accept bad jobs

if their basic needs are covered, as badly paid job can make them ill and unhappy.

The government should be reducing working times and raising salaries - the

opposite of what is being done - as well as providing more protection for workers,

measures that facilitate the creation of employment for companies, more job

security... if there is no security, there is no confidence when it comes to

consuming. There should be an advance and not a regression in social rights.

Question: In theory, private companies are more efficient and effective than public

companies, due to the competitive environment where their activities occur. What would be

the sense of nationalising strategic sectors?

Answer: Well, they are everybody's. Water, sun and earth belong to everyone -

they should not belong to anyone specific. These sectors benefit all of us and those

we all use should be declared common goods. There should also be a public bank

  94  

to fund people's initiatives to make everything cheaper, as now we pay for the most

expensive electricity in Europe. This is due to the neoliberal policy imposed by our

government. Strategic sectors, including those large companies that look profitable

but are failing, should be nationalised. These could become cooperatives. There

are other ways towards nationalisation, as the Cooperative of Mondragón shows,

and there are companies like Eroski, controlled by its workers.

Question: 99% of Spanish companies are SMEs, and are the engines to keep and

generate employment. Private banks use the assets given by the ECB for their own

regeneration, leaving companies deprived from the necessary credit for their development.

Should banks be more thoughtful towards the needs of the SMEs or should a public bank

be created specifically for this purpose?

Answer: I used to work for an SME and it had no means to fund itself. It was run by

a family who ended up selling to a large company; that is why it is not interesting for

the banks. It is clear that it is necessary to help people keep control over their own

jobs. SMEs are the ones that offer better quality of life for their workers, although

perhaps not in terms of salary. It is crucial to help SMEs, maybe even by law or by

creating governmental organisations to help them. Banks can do whatever they

want with their money.

Question: What are the effects of the exodus of talent that the country is experiencing?

Answer: We are the most educated generation and we are starving. I am 27 years

old and I am living with my parents. The salaries are not high enough to develop as

people. If you have to go abroad, maybe you will not live substantially better, but it

will certainly be an improvement, at the cost of living far from your family, your

neighbourhood, your people. There are already family dramas beyond the personal

and economic repercussions for individuals. I do not know what model of country

they want, but this one will become the geriatric of Europe. They want us to leave

them alone, but I will stay to fight. I want to stay because those in power are

screwing our future and our parents' future up. I do not blame anyone who prefers

to leave, though – it is understandable. I am not an economist; I am just someone

who cares.

  95  

Interview: Jorge A. Calvo Pazos – Participant 4

(Ex-general secretary of Socialist Youths of Galicia – Spain)

Question: What do you think were the triggers of the economic crisis in Spain and what

are the differences and similarities compared with other European countries?

Answer: Let's see! The economic crisis in Spain and the differences and similarities

compared with other European countries. What I believe is that people have a

misleading idea of what constitutes a crisis in a capitalist system. People think there

are periods of growth and that these periods are interrupted by occasional crises,

which are caused by the market's way of working or various singular situations.

However, the aim of capitalism is to concentrate the capital in fewer hands every

time, hence the rich become richer and the poor become poorer. The gap between

them expands.

Question: Why has the impact of the crisis not been as noticeable in the UK, compared to

Spain?

Answer: In Spain there are some particular features not found in many other

countries. Following the arrival of Aznar to power and the re-regulation of soil law,

Spain based its economic model on the construction industry. Banks would lend

money to construction companies. According to the theory of diminishing returns, if

you have a large amount of a product and put it in the market at once, its price will

decrease. If potatoes are very common, their price will drop. Likewise with

tomatoes. So it was unnatural that the same thing was not happening with the

housing market. It was said prices would not go down and indeed they did not go

down, although they should have - and there you go... for a while, the housing

market bubble got bigger because of the rumour that prices would not go down. At

the same time, construction companies were building prolifically. In summary, the

Spanish economy depended heavily on the construction business. When the credit

crunch occurred in the United Estates, what corporations were passing to one

another in 2009 was a hot potato. A bundle of bonds that really were lent debt, and

that belonged to people who could not afford to pay, were being passed along.

Spain only produced one thing, whereas in the UK there was the oil in Scotland, the

City (in London) and many other worldwide competitive sectors. Hence the crisis

became more noticeable in Spain when the construction industry receded.

  96  

Question. What is the correlation between the political crisis and the economic crisis?

Answer: I think that the political and institutional crisis in Spain has its origins in

the Spanish Transition. In fact, there was no transition as there was no rupture, only

a capitulation of the political forces at that time. It was not believed that democracy

could emerge from such a rupture; instead they just adapted the institutions

inherited from Franco's dictatorship to a new political situation, in which the King

became Franco's successor and the Spanish Courts an evolution of Franco's

Courts. Fair enough, they were already created, although the way of choosing the

MPs was different. Democratic quality in Spain is low, which is not directly related to

the economic crisis but rather linked to the very origin of the political structures and

institutions that come from Franco's time in Spain. There is an original sin in their

constitution and the economic crisis is letting people realise this.

Question: Do you think that the Spanish debt is not sustainable and should not be paid?

Answer: Well, what do I know? I was discussing this precise subject with a very

famous lawyer, José Antonio Pérez, and he said that the Spanish debt is very

clearly partially illegitimate. International law says that illegitimate debt is against the

interests of citizenship and that when this occurs the debt should not be repaid. If

this part of the debt is the bit that Rajoy has dedicated to rescuing the banks, which

up to now will have to be repaid by the Spanish public, at the end of the day it is

transforming private debt into public debt.

Question: Would exiting the Euro be viable?

Answer: Some economists are arguing that maybe it would be viable to have two

differentiated Euro currency zones: the North Euro and the South Euro. This way

the southern countries, which are most affected by the economic crisis, could

devaluate their currency. When the Maastricht treaty was signed, it was already

pointed out that there could be difficulties in having one single currency with so

many different economic situations amongst the various countries. In Spain there

are people who are really having a hard time in this crisis and the only ace that

Spain has is to bang the table and threaten it will leave the EU, so that a

conversation is started about finding a solution, as the EU is not interested in Spain

leaving.

Question: About the austerity measures imposed by Europe: are they adequate or do they

threaten the welfare state in Spain?

Answer: These measures are unfair. Say that a teacher gets their salary cut today;

tomorrow, they will not have their salary reduced, they will be made redundant. In

  97  

time, this will destroy the Spanish welfare system. In addition more companies will

close down, which will result in people having less money and less power of

acquisition, company owners earning less and therefore making more people

redundant, thus multiplying the negative effect. These austerity measures work in

Germany, to ensure that their financial companies get paid.

Question: What would the most effective steps be to achieve an electoral reform, as there

is also a political crisis?

Answer: A consensus should be reached at the Congress of Deputies to issue a

new law, but I do not think that is going to happen because it has not happened

yet... I do not think there is a perfect law, but for instance in Scotland if you achieve

51% of the votes you get 51% of the seats; however in Spain you can rule with an

absolute majority despite amassing only 28% of the votes, which is completely

unfair for the citizenship.

Question: Would a transparency law be the solution to fight political and economic

corruption?

Answer: Corruption has been rife throughout the history of Spain, not only during

the history of democracy but also before. Spain has been characterised by corrupt

politics. A transparency law should allow the citizens know to what is done with

every cent they pay in taxes, which I do not think will happen in Spain. There will

still be corruption and everything else because politicians are not interested in

preventing it.

Question: What would the ideal tax system be for fiscal reform in Spain?

Answer: When I studied Business Administration in Santiago de Compostela, I

was taught that a tax system needs to be progressive, so that people who have

more must pay more. Instead, the system in Spain is regressive - those who have

more, pay less. Companies in the IBEX35 are paying between 1% and 8% in tax

and the rest goes abroad. In the 1929 credit crunch, one strategy that helped the

U.S. out of the crisis was that the richest and largest companies paid more than

60% of their earnings in taxes.

Question: What about raising the Minimum Wage? Spain has one of the lowest MW in

Europe (Eur718). The same applies to the pensions. Would it be viable to raise them in the

current period of instability?

Answer: If the rich paid more taxes there would be more money in Spain to

support the Spanish pensions scheme. At the same time, if the rich paid all they

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owe and fiscal fraud ended, then there would be enough money to raise salaries.

Question: The Central European Bank, Germany, the International Monetary Fund... they

tell us that salaries in Spain are too high for a country with such low productivity. How could

productivity be increased without having to lower salaries? Surely there must be other

ways...

Answer: They say in Spain we are not productive... nonsense! We will have to

start working like in Bangladesh. What they mean is that in a cheap working market

competitiveness is achieved not only by lowering salaries but also improving

products. If your product is better you can compete with more expensive prices. In

Spain products need to be cheaper, which means lowering salaries. Well, in Spain

shops open at 10 or 11 until 13.30 and close for lunch, then reopen at 16.30 or 17

until 20:00. In other countries, shops are open from 9 to 17 or 19: this makes them

more productive. Foreign companies also invest more time and resources training

their employees, which increases their productivity.

Question: How can we become more competitive if we receive complaints about our

competitiveness? What should we improve? What are the basics needed to improve our

competitiveness?

Answer: In Spain, competitiveness is understood as being cheaper than your

competitor next door by cutting salaries. It is not understood that a product can be

more competitive thanks to its quality. To improve quality you need to invest in

R&D, which is not something that is invested in Spain, where salaries are

automatically lowered instead. Take Finland for instance. What is it about Finland?

Why is Finland a relatively internationally successful country in terms of its

economy, unlike Spain? What have they got? They dedicate a lot of money to the

education of their citizens and their government invests more in R&D than Spain

does.

Question: Adam Smith stated that human capital is essential to create richness for a

nation. In Spain there is a school drop-out rate of 28% during the ESO (12 to 16 years old),

almost the highest in Europe. How do you think we could improve this situation? Will the

new law imposed by the PP be able to improve it or will it not affect the negative figures we

have?

Answer: I can talk about the Spanish universities of the 1990s, when I attended. At

University in the 1990s you attended the lectures if you wanted to. There were

amphitheatres’ where 200 or 300 people were cramped in a room, groups should

be minimised, as in England, with seminars of 12 people in order to obtain

  99  

personalised treatment. In Spain there is no personal attention from the teacher so

there is no interest in helping people to come out with critical thinking and a good

education. With the increase in university fees and the reduction of grants, only the

privileged will study.

Question: Let's discuss the questionable efficiency of the reform on employment imposed

by the current government. Spain had 5 million unemployed people before its

implementation; at the moment it is over 6 million. Is the reform failing? How should the

reform be improved to generate employment?

Answer: The reform on employment is something that the Spanish right wing

parties have always wanted to do, but they have never had the opportunity to do it

until now, when the crisis has provided them with the chance. What they want is to

change the structure; they want people to work for less money with less right. That

is what they have always wanted to do, but this was not something commonly

believed to create employment. If redundancy has been made easier for companies

to enforce and employment has been made cheaper, you do not need to be

Einstein to realise that making people redundant will be cheaper and therefore more

popular. It is 2 + 2 equals 4: everybody knows it. The theory is that companies do

not hire because employee dismissal is very expensive, so they do not want to

hand permanent contracts to their employees. On one hand this theory is good, but

this theory does not apply in Spain because Spanish entrepreneurs are not looking

after their employees.

Question: In theory, private companies are more efficient and effective than public

companies, due to the competitive environment where their activities occur. What would be

the sense of nationalising strategic sectors?

Answer: As an ideological principle, I think that the natural resources of a country

belong to its people; rivers, for example, belong to all Spanish people. Private

companies make their business from these resources and they charge citizens

more expensive prices for them. The government of a nation should handle the

natural resources of a country. The resources of all citizens, a public good, cannot

be used for the financial gain of a few.

Question: Should the same apply to banks? Should a public bank be created?

Answer: There should be a public bank as well as private banks. A public bank is

necessary to fund companies and create the conditions so that Spain can invest in

industry and R&D. SMEs should have access to loans with a bank that is not

motivated purely by economic profit; a public bank moved by the goal of building a

  100  

country, as the economic development from entrepreneurial growth helps economic

recovery.

- Thank you very much for your help!

I hope it is been useful for you.

  101  

Interview: Stuart Barrett – Participant 5

(Senior Lecture at Manchester Metropolitan University.

Teaching specialisms: ‘International Business, Business Economics and Asia-Pacific

Economics and Business’)

Question: What do you think are the causes of the economic crisis in Spain?

Answer: Complex, two main ones I think one Spain is part of the Eurozone, which

means it has had for a long time interest rates that are far too low, then it should

have. Those low interest rates have caused a boom in credit - both private and

public borrowing - so when the global economy slowed down, Spain was in trouble.

Fundamentally it is because they are part of the Eurozone. All the southern

European nations have had interest rates that are far too low for them. England’s

interest rates were not as low ten years ago as they were in Spain. Spain’s got

inflation (not clear)

Question: What is the correlation between political crisis and economic crisis?

Answer: I do not know much about the political crisis I would say that the

problems in all of the southern European countries are caused by an economic

problem and the politicians have nowhere to go they have no answer to the

economic crisis because it is a problem of the Euro. They cannot do anything, as

they have no monetary policy tools available to them. So they have nothing to do.

That causes political problems clearly.

Question: Is the Spanish debt legitimate and sustainable according to its creditors, or

should it be re-negotiated or the payments be suspended for a certain period of time?

Answer: That depends on Germany I think if Germany is happy to stand behind

the Spanish debt then it is ok if Germany decides they do not want to. It is down to

Germany. Well to some degree Spanish debt has already been renegotiated as has

Portugal and has Greece it may well need to be done again it all depends on

whether the German parliament wants to do that or not they can extend Spanish

debt way out to the future if the European central bank wants to buy Spanish debt

they can, but that is for German to decide. So it may well be sustainable, it may not.

  102  

It depends. Germany has an election next month so it will be clearer after that

where they stand.

Question: What would the negative consequences imposed by Europe be, in case the

debt remained unpaid? Would this be a lesser damage for the recovery of the economy of

the country?

Answer: Spain does not have any decision in this. It is the Markets and it is

Germany. Through the European Central Bank, but the central bank will do what

Germany tells them to do. So it would not surprise me if Spanish debt will be not so

much renegotiated but perhaps the European Central Bank will buy Spanish debt

which will keep interest rates down. At the moment Germany will not allow that to

happen. But it would not surprise me if they did.

Question: Would exiting the Euro be viable?

Answer: I do not think so. I think politicians will do whatever it takes to keep the

Euro. I think Greece should have left a long time ago and they did not which

suggests to me that the Germans and the French are determined to keep the Euro

zone together so I think Spain will stay in it. It will be a disaster for them but I think

they will stay in and it will get worse.

Question: Regarding the austerity measures, are they a good choice or do they threaten

the Spanish welfare state?

Answer: Well, austerity for Spain does not work it is not possible to have enough

austerity to make any difference to the size of the debt. What Spain needs is growth

and it cannot have growth with the level of debt hanging over it with austerity, and

not being able to print its own money. Britain is seeing growth because it has its

own currency and can print and create money. Spain cannot do this, so austerity is

a nonsense policy which makes things worse. Spain has no choice; it does not have

its own currency. By far history tell us that the easiest way to get out of a debt

problem is through inflation you create rise in prices and the easiest way to do that

is to print more money which is what American is doing, the Japanese are doing,

the Chinese are doing, what the British are doing and what the Europeans are not

doing. Because the Germans who basically control the European Central Bank

have never believed in that policy they do not believe in printing money and inflating

  103  

away debt because of what happened historically in Germany in the 1920’s and

1930’s. So they demand on Spain, Portugal and Greece austerity and it makes

things worse.

Question: Would a transparency law be the solution to fight political and economic

corruption?

Answer: I do not know anything about that I do not know what a transparency law

is. Well in politics we have a tradition of open government and honesty we have

quite a large free press and it is the media really that hold politicians to account so

through that we do ok I suppose but we have had these institutions for 300 or 400

years. In other parts of Europe they are basically young democracies they have not

built those institutions. I think there are historical reasons for that.

Question: What about raising the minimum wage? Spain has one of the lowest minimum

wages in Europe (Eur728); the same applies to the pensions. Would it be viable to raise

them in the current instability period?

Answer: The problem is in a Eurozone Spain has to compete with all the other

countries in the Eurozone, you can compete on costs, which are wages, or you can

compete on productivity. Spain, France and everybody else are not as productive

as Germany and so to compete on costs in some ways you can only go so far with

it. It is not the answer.

Question: The Central European Bank, Germany, the International Monetary Fund, they

tell us that the salaries in Spain are too high for a low productivity country. How could

productivity be increased without having to lower salaries? Surely there must be other

ways...

Answer: Everybody has the same problem. Britain has a productivity problem we

have to train people we have to invest in technology and new equipment. And we

have to have management systems that incentivise work and encourage greater

harder work if you like. It is all of those things it is a difficult one productivity but

Spain’s is not particularly good. Too much sleep in the afternoon. It depends on the

industry. It does take a long time for it to come through. I think raising the minimum

wage now would just add to cost and Spain may make in the short-term

  104  

unemployment worse. And even if people get paid more money the chances are

they would use the extra money to pay for debt rather than spending it.

Question: How can we become more competitive if we receive complaints about our

competitiveness? What should we improve? What are the main pillars to improve our

competitiveness?

Answer: Spain is not competitive against Germany, which is who you have to be

competitive against. Again, a big problem with that is that you have the same

currency. If Spain had its own currency, it could let the peseta fall in value so your

exports would be competitive - but you cannot do that. I do not know why they

entered the Euro.

Question: Adam Smith stated that human capital is essential to create richness for a

nation. In Spain, there is a high drop-out rate (28%) during the compulsory secondary

education, almost the highest in Europe. How do you think we could improve the education

system?

Answer: What would an economist say if you want something to happen? You

incentivise it you create incentives to change behaviour. I do not know much about

the Spanish education system so I do not know why people drop out but it seems to

me it should not be that difficult to incentivise young people to have an education. I

do not know how the system in Spain is. In England is compulsory education till 16

then you can stay on for 2 years and do A Levels and then go to University

afterwards. And we have about 45% go to higher education to Sunday group which

is probably too high. It is not so much about the quantity of people doing it is the

quality of it and maybe some of those students in higher education would benefit

more from doing an apprenticeship. So I do not know all countries face the same

problem. We have not enough students doing science and engineering so we are

trying to incentivise more science and engineering which is working when they get

subsidise.

Question: The questionable efficiency of the new reform on labour market imposed by the

current government – Spain had 5 million unemployed people before its implementation, at

the moment it is over 6 million. Is the reform being a failure? How should the reform be

improved to generate employment?

  105  

Answer: I do not know what the labour market is in Spain what I would say in

Britain we have had over the last 20 or 30 years continual labour market reform so

we have a very flexible labour market and during the current crisis we have not had

a very bad unemployment problem cause many people like myself have taking

away treats or work four or three days a week. Many employers have offered their

works to cut wages rather them making them redundant. I think that is has made a

big difference to our unemployment. Where in Spain, France and Greece unions

are stronger and there is a lot more resistance to cutting wages. If it is expensive to

make people redundant then you do not hire them in the first place. You need to be

more flexible. Businesses are more likely to employ someone if they know should

the market change they can get rid of people. The fact the unemployment is high is

not so much to do with the labour market reform is to do with the general economic

situation. It does not matter what reforms you do with the labour market in Spain

now it will not make much difference to the overall thing it is the general economic

situation that it the problem the labour market reform it is for the future it is for the

next crisis. Spain needs growth then they can worry about the labour market reform

later. They need to grow. It is from 10 years ago or 20 years ago.

Question: Should Spain invest more in R&D and innovation?

Answer: Yes. Well again it comes to incentives I do not know what the tax

situation is in Spain but most countries in the world offer businesses tax breaks if

they invest in R&D. You also need of course engineers and scientist. You need a

bigger pool of human capital. Another important thing is of course are businesses

only tend to invest on those things (R&D) if the economy is growing, or if they

perceive the future economy to be expanding. It would be madness for any

business in Spain at the moment to invest in R&D they have no idea what the future

is. So if you have money you hold on to your money until things improve. Maybe

few years ago the incentives were not enough for firms to invest.

Question: 99% of Spanish firms are medium and small enterprises, which is the engine to

keep and create employment. Private banks use the assets given by the European Central

Bank for their own regeneration, leaving firms deprived from the necessary credit for their

development. Should banks be more thoughtful towards the needs for the SMEs or should

a public bank be created for the purpose?

  106  

Answer: Well that is about reform there is no reason why Spain should be 44 why

not 20? Those reforms are very easy to do to make easier for businesses to open

and operate. You just change the rules. For example if you want to register your

business it cost some money. It could make it free. To buy and sell businesses, to

import and export to do various things you can make it easier to do and maybe

Spain has a traditional of bureaucracy it has a large civil service and people do not

do very much but they are very protective of their jobs and institutions. That will take

from politicians some will they have to have the will to make the change and I guess

that in Spain they are too many people that do not want the change like unions.

There are people that do not want that change to happen. You better sort it with

reform. There is no reason why Spain cannot do it I can only assume that there is

resistance to it like trade unions. I can only assume that some people that do not

want that reform to happen. Often are the trade unions that represent work and the

civil service and government departments. In the UK private banks provide credits

to businesses, which are hard to get at the moment banks, are reluctant to lend but

that will change. Moving credit from banks to businesses is a problem all countries

have faced in the last few years, as banks do not have enough money to lend: that

is why it is called a credit crunch. But as I said, that will change as banks improve

their balance sheets. It is a problem that all countries face. Spain is going to

continue to have problems without their own economy. What we found here is all

these problems of labour market and barriers to business all of those things they do

not matter to much when the economy is doing well but when the economy is

struggling those things suddenly are a big problem the time to address them is

when things are going well not now this should have been done ten years ago so

things would not be so bad now. So to do those things now in politically difficult I

think. I do not know where the whole Euro thing will go I think it will just stumble on

and on. Maybe one day the Spanish people will say we have had enough and

demand to leave the Euro. I do not know what people in Spain think. The sooner

the better but I do not think it will happen soon because too many politicians have

made too many commitments to it. Is there any party in Spain that wants to leave

the Euro? The communists? Well maybe that is the problem that there are no

political parties that represent this certain view. We have in Britain political parties

that do not want to join the Euro so we can vote for them. In Spain both parties do

not want to leave the Euro. It is not democratic. I suppose the good news is that

being in the Eurozone is that you can all leave Spain and go somewhere else and

come to work in Britain or Germany. It is very sad. It is very difficult. It is the Euro.

  107  

Focus Group – Participant 6

(Debate group of Spanish people who have studied at Spanish universities and are

currently living in England, due to a lack of job opportunities in Spain – i.e. Graduates in

Business Management, Economics, Education, Tourism and IT Engineers)

Question: What are the triggers of the Spanish economic crisis and its resemblances and

differences compared with the crisis in other European countries?

Answers:

- Construction and tourism have always been key sectors for growth in Spain. In

construction there was an unsustainable bubble that logically had to explode.

Tourism is very influenced by other sectors and, in addition, it is seasonal. Thus as

soon as the international crisis started, it was only logical that, in a country like

Spain with these two sectors being vital for the economic growth, the other sectors

would be dragged along.

- Everything started with something that happened in the US, with the so-called

'NINJA mortgages'. In a globalised world like ours, where everybody buys debt from

other countries, these circumstances have inevitably affected all of us.

- If, in addition to this, a country like the US, which is currently one of the biggest

players in the world's economy, is experiencing an important economic crisis,

inevitably in Spain the consequences were to have a bigger impact, hence the

situation we are currently in.

- The existing corruption in our country also has to be taken into account. A large

proportion of leaders pursue their personal interests instead of social well-being;

this results in a diminished sense of responsibility. The same happens at the banks

Question: What is the correlation between the economic crisis and the political and

institutional crisis in Spain?

Answers:

- I think now we place more attention on the political crisis due to the extremely weak

economic situation in the country. That is, before this we had the same amount of

thieves (or even more) but as things were going well, and the population

overwhelmingly lived in economic good times, we did not care about these

robberies and corruption scandals

- Banks agreed with those unjustifiable loans and the expenditure of non-existent

  108  

money, speculating on what earnings there would be in 40 years' time. As a result,

nowadays there is no money and those who still have some keep it due to the

situation of generalised concern in our society.

Question: Is the Spanish debt legitimate and sustainable in relation to its lenders, or

should it be re-negotiated? Should repayments be temporarily stopped?

Answers:

- The debt should be re-negotiated, at least the interest rate we are paying. This is

somehow inherent to capitalism; if certain northern European countries are to work

well, some other countries must be made to fall. This is the role we have been given

in this partnership. Germany is very interested in charging that debt, because they

are the major creditors. It is the loans they have offered and the interests that those

generate where Germany can maximise its profit.

- Another cause of the crisis is that we operate with the same currency, but with very

different policies.

Question: Would it be viable for Spain to exit the Euro?

Answer:

- It would be yet another shock and disruption for the population. I believe that the

main reason for this is that our country does not produce any goods; the majority of

them are imported. In fact, manufacturing is one of the main sources of wealth for

any country. In addition to this, the strongest sectors we currently have, such as

tourism, are not being taken advantage of as responsibly and efficiently as they

should be exploited. The overall Spanish mentality is messy and involves investing

abroad instead of in ourselves to promote our own sectors.

Question: What about a bifurcated Euro?

Answers:

- There could be a Euro with a different rate, or at least a currency that could be

devalued if necessary. However, this would establish a social difference between

the rich and the poor in Europe, which is currently only an underlying idea. It is true

that having pesetas made the country more appealing as a tourist destination for

the neighbouring countries; now all those visitors may end up going to other

countries which offer a cheaper currency exchange rate, such as Turkey. We have

a rich currency in a poor country. All this despite having undergone a tougher

  109  

selection process (inflation, external debt, gearing, etc.) than there is today.

However, when we did it, the situation was favourable and we could join the EU.

Right now we have none of that.

Question: Regarding the austerity measures imposed by Europe – are these measures

appropriate or do they act against the Spanish welfare system?

Answers:

- We aim to follow the example led by the US, based on high consumption. Instead,

Spain cuts back salaries and pensions more and more, an austerity policy. What

this austerity causes is the closing down of SMEs, which are the main engine of the

country. At the end of the day, these SMEs are what generate dynamism, profits

and jobs, and they are closing down.

- These policies have been adopted to please European creditors such as Germany.

They have large companies and the cutbacks do not affect them to the same extent

as they affect our country. Fiscal policies should be amended; as SMEs and sole

traders are being affected the most by the current measures taken.

Question: What would the most effective steps be to achieve electoral reform? What

would the perfect electoral system be, as opposed to the current bipartisanism?

Answers:

- In our country there is bipartisanism and some lose out in favour of others. In Spain,

22% of votes achieve a majority government. The problem is that the two largest

parties are not interested in changing these laws because they have been

alternating government periods, so both of them would lose if these laws changed.

- It is also true that nothing will happen if the population does not fight and

demonstrate for things to change. We must fight for the acknowledgement of our

rights as citizens.

Question: What measures should a proposed transparency law include to fight political

and economic corruption?

Answers:

- It is a smokescreen, as politicians determine what becomes published, what is

transparent and what is not. For a law to be correct, parties should logically be

externally audited, as opposed to internally audited as they are now; parties are

able to hide what they want.

  110  

- Another problem consists of the fact that, in practice, judicial power is not separated

from legislative power. As a result, politicians who are not fulfilling their roles

properly and simply using their mandates trying to become rich do not go through a

regular court process like any other citizen would. There are many hidden interests

and forces that combine to keep those politicians from indictment and cover up any

irregularities happening with public funds.

Question: What would the ideal tax system be for future fiscal reform in Spain?

Answers:

- The problem is that in Spain the tax system is not followed in reality. It is supposed

to be a progressive tax system; large companies have more access to tools to

elude those tax charges, such as fiscal paradises held by some of the companies in

the IBEX35. Instead, small companies have no real power... should they hide the

money under their mattresses?

- The people who have power to change this system are the same ones with

personal agendas; hence they are not interested in controlling tax evasion. The

population and the SMEs are the ones losing out, as they cannot evade taxes or

afford to pay for them.

Question: Would it be viable to increase the Minimum Wage and the pensions scheme in

the current economic climate?

Answers:

- We all already know that we will not receive a pension after we retire in this country

(Spain).

- Raising pensions would not be viable due to the high unemployment rate, which

makes income from this source insufficient to cover the cost of these pensions.

- It would also be interesting to raise salaries and reduce the number of MPs and

politicians per capita who are completely redundant. At the same time, more tax

inspectors would prevent tax evasion and generate a feeling of responsibility to

prevent the current situation of generalised fraud.

Question: The Minimum Wage in Spain has decreased over the past few years with the

excuse being that Spain is not being competitive enough compared with Europe. How

could Spain become more competitive without having to reduce Spanish workers' salaries?

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Answers:

- I do not know why they think we are unproductive citizens. I have not seen any

English people work with the same efficiency as a Spanish person. It is an excuse

to justify the reduction of wages. They could have come up with anything else as an

excuse.

- In economy, productivity is the product made per unit of time. The only way to

improve productivity is through motivating employees, investing in R&D and

improvement of means of production. Training, as given to employees’ abroad, is

key. Spanish companies do not prioritise staff or investment in improving their

productivity and therefore their final profit.

Question: Human capital is essential to generate wealth in a nation. For this reason, it is

key to develop and maintain a public education system. What would the ideal framework

for a reform of the education system be - a system that is currently not profitable due to the

high drop-out rates in secondary education and the ineffectiveness of the Spanish

universities, which do not provide appropriate entry into the job market?

Answers:

- In Spain there is a lack of cultural sensitivity. Young people are not brought up to

study and have high academic profiles because our politicians and the system do

not promote that.

- Children are stuck in school all day long for the convenience of their parents'

working times. They are 'parked' during the day and when they arrive home they

are apathetic and do not fancy doing anything. They crave spending time with their

families and seek their parents' attention.

- The average grade necessary to be a teacher in our country is of the lowest in the

world (6.5) so the profession is not valued and not seeking the best professionals

for such an important element in a society such as teaching. In addition, the degree

is not orientated towards specialisation of professionals anymore; due to cutbacks,

any teacher is expected to take over any lesson of any subject if they are covering

for a sick leave of less than 20 days.

- Spanish university teaches basic principles to master a subject, but it neither

teaches to think critically nor to reason like a trained professional. Students finish

their grades with a huge amount of knowledge but little or no practice and they are

not proactive when it comes to tackling professional situations and the various

complications there may be.

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Question: Considering the questionable efficiency of the current job reform, what other

viable, sustainable measures could effect a reduction in unemployment in the short and

medium terms?

Answers:

- Above all, helping sole traders, as we mentioned earlier. Entrepreneurship should

be encouraged.

- Policies should be consistent, at least. Redundancies may be unavoidable for many

companies, but of course a little support to those made redundant who set up small

companies, would make things easier for them.

- This reform has not solved anything: it has not improved the quality of employment,

or promoted it. It is actually gone worse, like a solution to improve and make up

balances and budgets to reduce the apparent debt. In the long term it will not take

us anywhere. It will just make the economic crisis worse and transform it into a

social crisis.

Question: Over 90% of Spanish companies are SMEs, which are the engine to create and

maintain employment. Private banks are using the majority of the assets given to them by

the EEC for their own clean-up, leaving companies unable to access the necessary funds

for their development. Should more solidarity be demanded from the banks or should a

public bank be created to watch over this aspect exclusively?

Answer:

- Yes, there should exist a bank exclusively to provide loans for SMEs, to help them

move forward and remain the engine of the Spanish economy by promoting

employment. Free redundancy is being implemented instead. However, small

businesses still encounter many difficulties. This encourages fraud instead of

employment. The accounts are getting cleared out but at the cost of diminishing

social capital.

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Interviews – Spanish version Entrevista 1: Tania Sánchez Melero Pregunta - ¿Cuáles cree usted que son los detonantes de la crisis económica española?

Respuesta - Un modelo económico basado en la especulación urbanística y por

tanto en el sometimiento a crédito bancario tanto de las administraciones como de

las familias y obviamente cuando eso quiebra por el arrastre de la quiebra

estadounidense pues en España se produce con mayor dureza porque era el único

sector productivo que estaba sosteniendo los niveles de crecimiento que

manteníamos hasta el momento.

Pregunta - Entonces la idea de que hemos vivido por encima de nuestras posibilidades es

mentira ¿No?

Respuesta - No, yo lo que creo es que obviamente esta crisis es una excusa para

consolidar un modelo de sociedad, de productividad y de estado, bueno pues muy

capitaneado por él neoliberalismo, ¿no? yo creo que en este país la deuda pública

no era una exageración en ningún caso ni siquiera en la de las comunidades que

eran las que tenían la mayor deuda pública y una deuda insostenible y es cuando

se decide asumir la deuda de la banca para seguir garantizando los beneficios de

esta, una vez que tienen hipotecados todos sus bienes en proyectos especulativos

cuando se produce una situación de una verdadera deuda pública y el

sometimiento de la prioridad del pago de esa deuda bancaria que ha sido

absorbido por lo público es lo que no lleva a la situación de falta digamos de

liquidez del sistema público en todos sus niveles y bueno se ve en los telediarios

cotidianamente en el estado pero hay situaciones muy graves en los ayuntamientos

donde tienen que decidir si hacen una rebeldía y no pagan la deuda que les ha

impuesto el gobierno que debe pagarla para garantizar el pago de las nóminas de

los funcionarios que en última instancia prestan los servicios que garantizan

derechos fundamentales, ¿No? . En definitiva, es una crisis del capitalismo que

como todas las crisis en lugar de ser resuelta lo que hacen es desplazarse,

entonces se ha desplazado de la crisis financiera en la banca privada a la crisis

pública asumiendo la deuda por parte de las entidades públicas.

Pregunta – O sea ¿que usted ve que la deuda que tiene España no es sostenible y que

no se debería pagar?

Respuesta - Yo lo que pienso es que obviamente la deuda tiene que hacerse una

auditoria seria ya que estamos hablando del dinero de toda al ciudadanía que en

  114  

ultima instancia es el que sostiene al estado, por tanto la deuda debería auditarse,

debería conocerse a que responde tanto a la parte que ha sido absorbido de la

deuda bancaria como las deudas contraídas con administraciones de manera

digamos irresponsable en lugar de a intereses públicos y que todos esos

elementos no deberían ser pagados.

Pregunta - ¿Y tendría España algunas consecuencias negativas impuestas por Europa,

en el caso de impago de la deuda?

Respuesta - Pues seguramente el problema de esta situación, es que asumir una

quiebra de la disciplina de la TROIKA igual que planear una reflexión sobre la

posibilidad de salida del euro provoca una situación de incertidumbre sobre

cualquier estado que lo genere pero lo que genera menos incertidumbre, lo que

genera es una garantía de pobreza, de la mayoría social no, y esto es lo que hay

que empezar a plantear, que bueno pues que no se puede sostener las

imposiciones de la TROIKA cuando eso supone el empobrecimiento general de la

población que vamos que es una cosa que hay que decir basta en algún momento

y bueno hay casos en todo en todo el mundo a lo largo de la historia, en los que

se han hecho quita de deuda, en los que se ha dejado de pagar, en los que se ha

hecho moratoria, en las que se han tomado decisiones en contra de los intereses

en contra de los poderes financieros y a favor de la ciudadanía de cada uno de los

estados, y ningún estado se ha hundido eh? O sea ni Alemania cuando decide

dejar de pagar la deuda después de la guerra mundial, ni las naciones

latinoamericanas que han decidido dejar de someterse a los dictados del Fondo

Monetario Internacional, ni se han hundido, ni han desaparecido del planeta, ni han

tenido peores situaciones sobre sus poblaciones, más bien todo lo contrario, más

se han garantizado frenar el empobrecimiento de su población, y yo creo que ese

es el camino correcto porque no hay otro. Porque lo que está claro es que el

camino de la TROIKA es un empobrecimiento generalizado y no se puede seguir

permitiendo.

Pregunta - Si bueno lo de auditar la deuda lo hizo recientemente Ecuador y le ha salido

bastante bien, es un claro ejemplo, pero no pertenece a Europa ni a una comunidad,

¿debería España entonces salir de Europa para poder auditar la deuda y por lo tanto salir

también del euro?

Respuesta - Bueno, o buscar aislados en el sur de Europa que replanteen la salida

fácil de la política europea, que yo creo que es el camino que hay hacer y la

perspectiva que debería tener la izquierda de cara a esas elecciones europeas. Yo

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creo que especialmente los países del sur deberían empezar a apostar por un

compromiso y una apuesta hacia los ciudadanos de quien apoya opciones de la

izquierda está apoyando una alianza de todas las naciones donde se tenga

mayoría para cambiar las reglas del juego también en Europa, porque bueno

también Europa no es inmutable y el hecho de que se haya construido sin ningún

instrumento democrático no nos debería perder la esperanza de reconvertir esa

realidad y empezar a exigir que las instituciones europeas no sean entes

administrativos no identificados y al margen de la democracia sino que sean

alianzas de naciones con criterios democráticos como son otras alianzas y

elementos de comunidad entre estados como son las latinoamericanas también

¿no? Pues bueno que hay intereses comunes que son compartidos y respetados

pero que luego no se pierde la soberanía y la capacidad de decisión económica

de cada uno de los países. Ese es el camino salvo que eso un país solo no lo va a

lograr, pero bueno hay que empezar a unificar discursos, igual que hay un discurso

hegemónico en Europa que lo capitanea Alemania, pues hay que hacer un

contrapoder a ese discurso.

Pregunta – O sea que los países latinos del sur de Europa se deberían unir ¿cree usted?

Respuesta- Al menos la periferia a quienes nos han reservado el papel de periferia

europea, y por lo tanto estamos condenados a que nuestra población no tenga más

esperanza que ser servidor de los ricos de Europa, y que tenemos que parar y

decir que nuestra ciudadanía tiene los mismos derechos, que es un conjunto de

Europa y los conjuntos del mundo debe dar unas condiciones dignas de vida y que

no vamos a permitir este modelo de desarrollo.

Pregunta - ¿Sobre las políticas de austeridad impuestas por Europa, son medidas

acertadas o por el contrario atentan contra el estado de bienestar español?

Respuesta - Pues son acertadas depende de cuál sea el objetivo, desde luego

para el objetivo de quienes han decidido que el único mercado posible para los

grandes capitales son los servicios fundamentales son acertadas las medidas de

austeridad lo que están determinando que cada vez más o al menos de una parte

de los derechos fundamentales que antes constituían el estado de bienestar y eso

es un negocio, un negocio para las aseguradoras, negocio para las empresas

sanitarias, para las empresas educativas y además una manera muy rápida de

cambiar el pensamiento, la hegemonía y la cultura ciudadana de un continente

¿no? Pero luego quienes pensamos que la política debe estar para garantizar el

bienestar colectivo y para distribuir el poder y decir que los más débiles deben ser

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protegidos por los gobiernos, pues creemos que todas las medidas que se están

tomando son erróneas, lo primero porque no garantizan el crecimiento ni garantizan

condiciones que prevean una salida de la crisis en la que ese 20% de pobreza que

ahora mismo tiene España se reduzca y que se reduzca con perspectivas de

reducirse estructuralmente o sea de que no vuelva a haber un circulo donde se

vuelva a producir, vamos, medidas que se están tomando más bien malas y en el

camino contrario que haga aumentar esa bolsa personas que están fuera de los

derechos fundamentales porque no tienen acceso a un trabajo ¿no?, hay que

empezar a pensar que la riqueza esta mucho mas allá de la empresa y del trabajo,

y hay que empezar a distribuir la riqueza de un país para garantizar el bienestar

colectivo, todas las medidas que se están tomando desde el gobierno

económicamente no caminan hacia esa salida y socialmente está destruyendo el

estado de bienestar que se había desarrollado que desde luego en un país como

España que tiene una trayectoria digamos breve de democracia lo estaba

desarrollando en su máxima expresión.

Pregunta - De todas formas si mi memoria no falla creo que nunca ha salido un país de

una crisis con medidas de recorte.

Respuesta - No, claro.

Pregunta - ¿Cuáles serían los pasos efectivos a seguir para una reforma de ley electoral,

porque también tenemos una crisis política?

Respuesta - Sí, Pues yo creo que la ley electoral obviamente no representa la

voluntad popular, hay una distribución de las bolsas de voto, que hacen que no

todos los votos valgan los mismo y que hacen que los escaños de las

organizaciones políticas requieran de más respaldo democrático que otros,

nosotros hemos hecho a lo largo de la democracia muchas propuestas, ¿no? hay

salidas simples, que es aumentar el número de diputados y plantear una bolsa

digamos de restos de votantes, donde los votos de provincias con menos número

de diputados y por tanto con un sistema que tiende más al mayoritario y deja fuera

las minorías, pues esos votos sea una especie de bolsa de restos donde poder

asignar diputados para que esos votos no se pierdan y opción electoral de la

ciudadanía y no se pierdan. Otra alternativa es cambiarla la circunscripción del

modelo de provincia, que es una instancia que ha desaparecido de la cotidianidad

de la administración española y que responde a una época franquista y hace que

se cambie por que la circunscripción sea la comunidad autónoma que además

responde mucho más al modelo institucional actual ¿no? Pero en cualquier caso yo

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creo que esto de las medidas validas para una reforma puntual que para ser un

modelo de democracia representativa y equipararse todos los ciudadanos ante ello,

pero yo creo que la circunstancias en las que estamos ahora de crisis política e

institucional como tu bien planteabas, creo que hay que ir más allá, creo que

España bueno vivió una transición democrática con una sociedad atenazada por el

miedo que fue pactada entre elites políticas aunque fueran unas elites plurales

donde participan todas las opciones salvo los nacionalistas que hay que recordar y

los republicanos, a pesar de que participaron todos no dejo de ser un acuerdo de

elites de una transición que si no eran esas condiciones pues tenía muchas

posibilidades de volver a ser un modelo de dictadura, eso suponía una situación de

atenaza en la población en la que se dijo si o no, a un modelo de transición donde

además no había otra alternativa y donde no había más que un amplio deseo de

salir de ese episodio negro que fue el franquismo. Yo creo que eso ha

evolucionado, hemos cambiado mucho, y somos una sociedad mucho más

madura democrática y políticamente y por tanto en Izquierda Unida estamos

planteando replantearse si es el momento de hacer un nuevo proceso constituyente

en el que sea la implicación de la ciudadanía la que vuelva a definir las reglas del

juego democrático y en ese marco pues las leyes electorales tendrán una

importancia de debate donde no solo hablaremos de cómo se distribuye la

representatividad sino que a lo mejor también hay que hablar de los niveles de

transparencia del compromiso de los electos de bueno, pues de la financiación de

los partidos, de todo un conjunto de medidas que ahora estamos viendo que

digamos están dinamitando por la vía de los hechos la democracia.

Pregunta - Pues con esto creo que me has contestado hasta la siguiente pregunta,

¿Crees que terminaría con el bipartidismo todas esas medidas?

Respuesta - Si yo creo que sería mucho más plural. De todas maneras el

bipartidismo en este país, en mi opinión, no es sólo es la mera alternancia de los

dos grandes partidos, y por tanto no solo hay que pensar como se reforma una ley

electoral para que tengan cabida otras opciones, sino que también es una forma de

perpetuar un modelo de desarrollo económico y social donde mandan los que no se

presentan a las elecciones, donde se mantiene el poder económico de las castas,

no y aquí hay que ponerles ojos a los mercados, los grandes empresarios de este

país, las empresas del IBEX 35, la banca de este país pues en esencia es la misma

que fue protagonista primero del expolio tras el golpe de estado y luego de la

transición se han quedado con ese poder económico, el poder económico no ha

sido democratizado y no ha sido transferido a la población y eso tiene que cambiar,

  118  

el bipartidismo es también una forma de perpetuar eso, y acabar con el

bipartidismo es una forma de acabar con muchos espacios de lo público en el

oscurantismo y alejado de la ciudadanía.

Pregunta - A mí siempre me habían vendido que el modelo de la transición española

como algo ejemplar, se ve que no fue así...

Respuesta - Yo creo que en este país ha habido una política de estado de

memoria como muchos de los países que han vivido dictaduras terroríficas que han

hecho una política de memoria de dignificación de los caídos por la democracia,

pues en este país ha habido una política de desmemoria y una política digamos de

exaltar hasta el ridículo ciertas figuras que ahora visto con perspectiva pues es

dudoso que jugasen un papel en el beneficio de todo el mundo y que no estuvieran

sirviendo a intereses particulares ¿no? Yo creo que la transición española fue un

proceso que probablemente no se podía haber hecho de ninguna otra manera y no

se trata ahora de pedirle cuentas a quienes lo capitanearon y fueron capaces de

construir ese espacio de democracia, pero si hay que decir que las circunstancias

han cambiado y que una cosa es reconocer que no había manera de hacer ese

proceso de transición y otra cosa es asumir el relato de que fue una transición

modélica y que sus protagonistas han sido héroes para la historia de este país, no,

los héroes fueron los que cayeron defendiendo la república y este país necesita

que su pueblo participe de un modelo democrático si queremos ser una democracia

avanzada donde ciertas cosas no pasan.

Pregunta - Bueno y con la corrupción, ¿Qué hacemos? ¿Una ley de transparencia sería

un solución para luchar contra la corrupción política y económica?

Respuesta - La corrupción no solo es un problema de moralidad individual, la

corrupción es un elemento sustancial de capitalismo forma parte de ese sistema, y

por tanto mientras no haya un proceso de democratización del control democrático

de la economía y de la banca, habrá corrupción porque habrá corruptores que son

mucho más importantes para que se dé la corrupción que los corrompidos,

mientras las empresas puedan donar y recibir contratos públicos sin que nadie les

pida cuentas, y sigamos hablando de un tesorero en lugar de hablar de todas las

empresas que se han beneficiado del dinero público y que no sabemos cuánto han

ganado a nuestra costa pues seguirá pasando. La ley de transparencia desde

luego sería un avance, lo que pasa que la ley de transparencia yo creo que se ha

planteado por desgracia como una cortina de humo en lugar de cómo un verdadero

ejercicio de abrir ventanas y puertas. Hay que cambiar la cultura democrática de un

  119  

país para avanzar en un camino de transparencia real, no basta con cambiar una

ley que exija más publicidad de determinados procedimientos o que exija más

conocimiento por parte de la población, sino que hay que hacer un esfuerzo, si se

quiere hacer un esfuerzo, porque la pregunta es si algunos quieren hacerlo, porque

la gente se implique en la democracia y eso no basta con una ley de transparencia

eso hay que hacer un esfuerzo de formación de tu población, de valorización de la

democracia y desde luego si la ley de transparencia podría ser un primer paso, yo

creo sinceramente que si se está debatiendo a puertas cerradas tiene muy poco

de transparente.

Pregunta - ¿Hay algún país que tenga una política de transparencia adecuada y le esté

funcionando? ¿Inglaterra por ejemplo?

Respuesta - Yo creo que los países nórdicos están avanzando ahora, no sé si

Noruega tiene una legislación un poco más avanzada y yo creo que hay ejemplos

en algunos estados que están avanzando, no tengo resultados aquí específicos de

cómo se están evaluando o no, pero yo creo que desde luego la prueba de que hay

países que están mejores que nosotros, como por ejemplo hay sitios como

Alemania que si descubren que alguien ha falseado un CV automáticamente tiene

que dimitir y dejar su cargo, aquí hemos descubierto que el presidente del gobierno

ha mantenido una estrecha relación con un corrupto confeso en tiempos de que se

le estaba juzgando siendo consciente de lo que estaba pasando y ni siquiera ha ido

al parlamento a explicar su relación.

Pregunta - En Inglaterra el ministro de transporte va en metro a trabajar, es decir son

ejemplos…

Respuesta - Claro es eso, bueno también hay una clave fundamental en eso, en

romper es cultura de que los dirigentes de un país son élite que están por encima

de la ciudadanía y que no tienen experiencias habituales como las que tienen sus

vecinos ¿no?, yo creo que esta es una de las quiebras también del modelo

democrático, cuando uno se convierte no en una expresión de la voluntad de su

pueblo y por tanto en alguien que parte de ese pueblo para hacer representante

temporalmente sino que alguien se convierte en una élite que tiene tremendos

privilegios y unas condiciones que superan con creces la dignidad necesaria para

ejercer un cargo público. Yo creo que obviamente los representantes públicos

tienen que tener salarios dignos y facilidades dignas para poder ejercer su función,

pero de ahí a dar el salto y convertiros en élites creo que hay una distancia que

nunca deberíamos haber pasado ¿no? Y que no sea posible encontrar al ministro

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de la administración actual, ni anterior, ni anterior, ni anterior en restaurantes

comunes sino que cenen en sitios donde las facturas están muy por encima del

salario mínimo interprofesional, pues es una barbaridad.

Pregunta - ¿Cuál sería el sistema impositivo ideal para una futura reforma fiscal en

España?

Respuesta - Desde luego hay datos que yo creo que evidencian por donde hay

que ir, cuando los técnicos de la administración de hacienda y cuando los

subinspectores y sus asociaciones profesionales denuncian que el 75% del fraude

fiscal se produce en las grandes empresas, en los bancos, y en las grandes

multinacionales que suponen exclusivamente un 0,01 % de la aportación

económica a los fondos públicos y sin embargo son el 72% del fraude y esto ni se

percibe ni se le da resolución, pues ese es un camino luchar contra el fraude fiscal

en los ámbitos en los que se produce con mayor facilidad que son las grandes

empresas es una prioridad de cualquier gobierno que tenga una situación

económica delicada de la misma manera que un país donde el 85% del ingreso

tributario lo producen los ingresos de nómina de productividad y no de capital, que

solo están tributando un 15 % pues es otra barbaridad, yo creo que hay que ir a

que paguen más los que más tienen, y sobre todo los que están recibiendo la

riqueza de los trabajadores, no interesa que un trabajador tribute por su salario y no

tiene nada más, una empresa esta tributando por su actividad económica y una

parte la está desviando por sus inversiones, por toda una serie de procedimientos

que hay que acabar con ellos, en definitiva es una cosa básica, que es un modelo

impositivo con más impuestos directos que indirectos y desde luego con unos

impuestos progresivos, lo que no tiene ni pies ni cabezas es que la situación que

está sufriendo este país con 6 millones de parados, un 40 % de jóvenes parados,

un 20% de la población en situación de pobreza, lo que se suba es el IVA que es

un impuesto que pagamos todos igual tengamos un ingreso de 100€ o de 100.000€

y que no se toquen los grandes impuestos y los grandes patrimonios. Como las

SICAV, los impuestos a la banca, como toda una serie de elementos, por lo tanto

obviamente la reforma fiscal tiene que ir en la línea de ir controlando el fraude igual

que se controla a las rentas de producción, a las rentas salariales, eso está

controladísimo si tú haces una declaración de la renta en la que no declares una

parte de tus ingresos rápido te hacen una paralela y te descubren, igual que hay

que controlar el fraude fiscal hay que ir a que paguen más quienes más tienen,

obviamente.

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Pregunta - Pero eso también está registrado en la constitución española en la cual dice

que los impuestos deben ser progresivos ¿verdad?

Respuesta - Bueno ese quizás es uno de los problemas por lo que ha saltado por

los aires el espíritu de la transición ¿no? Cuando tienes una constitución que dice

que la riqueza de un país debe revertir en el bienestar del colectivo y que debe

estar por encima el interés de lo colectivo de los intereses particulares y de los

poderes públicos, y que debe hacer una política económica que vele porque la

riqueza se distribuya, cuando hay una constitución en la que se dice que el derecho

a la vivienda es un derecho fundamental y que los gobiernos están no solo

permitiendo que se expulse a la personas de sus casas sino impugnando ante al

tribunal constitucional del decreto andaluz sobre los desahucios que trata de

defender a las familias que se expulsa de las viviendas, poniéndose claramente en

defensa de los bancos en lugar de su ciudadanía y cuando los otros partidos hacen

una modificación exprés y sin consulta ciudadana de un artículo que somete toda la

constitución al pago de la deuda de manera que anula el artículo primero que dice

que España es un estado social y de derecho, pero también social y si no podemos

tener dinero para que sea un estado social estamos violando la constitución, ahí es

donde la ciudadanía dice, pues si esta constitución no vale reformémosla, y por eso

parece que no es recomendable el partido socialista que ellos ya tienen diseñada

otra vez la elite y una propuesta de reforma constitucional que llevaran a efecto sin

contar con las bases de la población. Yo creo que cuando un país ha sido atenido

a una constitución que no se ha sido capaz de hacerla cumplir es hay que hacer

un proceso constituyente como está yendo en Latinoamérica y no pasa nada, si

hay que cambiar las reglas del juego en una sociedad no es el fin del mundo, sino

que es el proyecto habitual de sociedades que avanzan democráticamente.

Pregunta - ¿Subir los salarios mínimos? España tiene casi los salarios interprofesionales

más bajos de Europa (728 €) Y las pensiones también, ¿Sería sostenible poder subirlas

con la inestabilidad que tenemos?

Respuesta - Con el tema de las pensiones yo creo que la izquierda nos

equivocamos al permitir debatir si las pensiones son sostenibles o son

insostenibles, una sociedad no debe permitir ni que se piense en dejar tirada a la

población más débil, a la población mayor que ha estado trabajando durante toda

su vida, cotizando y dando su fuerza de trabajo para la riqueza del conjunto del

país. No deberíamos permitir que se debatiera o que se planteara como una opción

dejarlos tirados, o dejarlos sin ingresos. Si ahora mismo no hay fondos para

garantizar las pensiones no es un problema de cuanta gente es pensionista o de

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cuál es la edad de jubilación, es un problema de que tenemos poca cotización

porque tenemos poco empleo y es esa la prioridad, la prioridad no puede ser dejar

por el camino a quienes llevan 40 o 50 años trabajado, la prioridad tiene que ser

garantizar que hay más trabajo para haya más gente cotizando y que las grandes

empresas coticen más. Y en cuanto al salario mínimo interprofesional, claro, el

problema es cuando los gobiernos deciden olvidar que el sistema capitalista es un

sistema de dominación y de explotación, en el que no hay un justo intercambio de

un contrato en el que unos compran la fuerza trabajo de otros en igualdad de

condiciones, si no que hay un poderoso que el que tiene los medios de producción

que compra a un débil que sólo tiene su fuerza de trabajo, esa fuerza de trabajo y

que en ese intercambio desigual o los poderes públicos protegen a la parte más

débil, o la parte poderosa se aprovecha de esa situación, por lo tanto, desde luego

hay que subir el salario mínimo interprofesional y hay que recuperar una política de

relación laboral en la que los estados protegen a la parte más débil de esa

interrelación y garantizan que el miedo no puede ejercerse como un arma en donde

la gente está dispuesta a vender su fuerza de trabajo casi a precio de saldo.

Porque ese es el problema, que grandes empresarios contratan por 400 € o

contratan en negro o explotan a la gente o les tienen trabajando horas extras que

luego no les pagan porque se lo pueden permitir y los trabajadores no se plantan,

no dicen hasta aquí hemos llegado, no luchan porque no se lo pueden permitir

porque saben que ellos están desprotegidos y saben que si mueven cualquier cosa

ponen en riesgo su vida. Esto es una locura y solo una administración pública

preocupada por sus ciudadanos puede cambiar esa relación.

Pregunta - El Banco Central Europeo, Alemania, el Fondo Monetario Internacional, nos

dice que los salarios son demasiado altos en España porque no es un país productivo

¿Como de podría plantear la productividad de un país sin tener que bajar los salarios?

Otros métodos tiene que haber…

Respuesta - Hombre es curioso que quienes han diseñado el modelo de Europa

en el que a nosotros nos han reservado Los Eurovegas de todo el continente ahora

nos diga que no somos productivos, ahora nosotros no somos productivos porque

ellos han decidido serlo, pero ellos son productivos porque nos venden a nosotros

a bajo salario, entonces lo que no es admisible es esta relación desigual en la que

yo me aprovecho de tus condiciones y además te obligo a que sigas manteniendo

esas condiciones porque no voy a asumir que seas productivo a mi nivel, yo creo

que reconfigurar esta realidad en el conjunto de Europa y desde luego yo creo que

también hay que empezar a plantear que el Banco Central Europeo que está

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sometido a los intereses de la banca privada y no es un banco público porque no

tiene capacidad de emitir deuda propia, porque no tiene capacidad de prestar a los

estados sino que presta a los bancos, para que los bancos presten con intereses a

10 veces el valor de lo que han recibido en definitiva igual que las rentas son

instituciones que no son democráticas y que por tanto no están orientadas a

distribuir el poder que en última instancia es el valor de la democracia la de la

democracia.

Pregunta - Adam Smith decía que el capital humano es esencial para crear la riqueza de

una nación, en España hay 28.4% de abandono escolar en lo que es la ESO, casi el más

alto de Europa. ¿Cómo cree usted que podemos mejorar esta situación ¿La nueva ley

impuesta por el PP puede mejorarla? ¿O cree usted por lo contrario que no va a mejorar

estas estadísticas tan negativas?

Respuesta - El problema que tiene el partido popular es que su expresión del

neoliberalismo y que no tienen en otros lugares de Europa es que hacen políticas

sin ir a la raíz de los problemas, se utilizan datos objetivos como ese 28% de

fracaso escolar para justificar una reforma que no está interviniendo sobre los

motivos de ese fracaso escolar porque ni siquiera se han analizado ¿no?, si un

estudio en detenimiento del mismo informe de la OECD que nos posiciona en ese

índice de fracaso escolar lo que identifica es que el motivo principal de ese fracaso

escolar es la desigualdad en las condiciones de acceso y las condiciones de

estudio de la población, hay una brecha brutal condicionada por los elementos

socioeconómicos de los alumnos y esa brecha no se interviene para corregirla.

Decía Mandela que la educación es la única herramienta que tienen los pobres

para rebelarse contra los poderosos para dejar de estar dominados, el problema es

que no quiere utilizarse esa herramienta. El modelo finlandés que no solo plantea

que haya que tener un éxito, digamos, en los objetivos escolares si no que hay que

tener un sistema orientado a tener garantizado el éxito individual de cada alumno, y

garantizar el éxito individual de que cada alumno implica conocer las condiciones

de ese alumno y corregirlas para que tenga el máximo desarrollo su potencial y eso

es lo que no se hace en este país no se interviene sobre las desigualdades que

provoca esa desigualdad de condiciones y en los resultados académicos, y

mientras no se intervenga sobre eso, pues seguiremos igual y el modelo de la ley

que se va a imponer por parte del ministro educación Wert no va en ese camino,

sino que va en el camino contrario que es segregar a los alumnos desde el

principio y por tanto es separar a los que ahora están fracasando con los que dejan

de fracasar. Yo no sé si eso va a generar mejores notas en los que no están

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fracasando lo dudo mucho, pero desde luego lo que no va a producir es una mejora

del resultado de quienes están siendo abandonados, porque ahora lo que hace es

abandonarles antes.

Pregunta - La verdad que lo que ha respondido yo me siento identificado, yo estudié en

España solo EGB, pero mi carrera universitaria y mi Master lo he hecho en Inglaterra. Yo

tengo problemas de sordera y a mi me tuvieron muy abandonado durante mis estudios en

España, no vi ayuda por parte de los profesores. Luego mi familia es granadina y por

niveles económicos nos cambiamos a Mallorca, donde se habla en catalán y me costó

mucho adaptarme a la nueva lengua, la verdad que en mi propio país me pusieron

mucho más dificultades para estudiar que en un país extranjero como Inglaterra.

Respuesta - Claro y el problema es que no se atiende, yo recuerdo, yo soy

educadora social de profesión y cuando estudiaba la carrera en los finales de los

90, pues estudiaba todos los programas que se iniciaron a finales de los 80 con

esta idea, pensando en diversificación educativa, en atender las necesidades

especiales, en respuesta en el aula, en los refuerzos tanto para situaciones como la

tuya que me cuentas, como con situaciones que tienen que ver más con las

condiciones familiares, ¿no? y estos días en los debates en televisión se está

viendo y hay muchos tertulianos planteándome incluso estudiantes de universidad

que lo plantean. No es lo mismo para un estudiante de familia rica preparar un

examen que para un estudiante de familia pobre, no se prepara igual un examen

cuando tienes un cuarto para ti, cuando tus padres son titulados universitarios,

cuando tu familia está rodeada de libros, te ha enseñado a leer desde pequeño te

ha motivado en ese conocimiento que cuando tienes una familia numerosa que vive

en un piso de 60 m2 de Vallecas y tienes que compartir tu cuarto con 3 hermanos,

y no hay un solo libro porque no te lo puedes pagar y tienes que ir a la biblioteca

pública, con lo cual estudias en los horarios que puedes, y si además de eso tienes

que trabajar una parte de tu jornada porque tus padres no pueden y te tienes que

pagar tu matrícula universitaria, porque ni hay becas o se suben los precios de las

mismas, al final lo que estamos diciendo es que una persona que tiene unas

condiciones económicas inferiores para llegar al mismo resultado tiene que hacer

10 veces más esfuerzo, y esto obviamente es una vergüenza en un país

democrático, y además es una cosa que educativamente se lleva estudiando desde

los años 80, o sea yo te repito yo soy educadora de profesión y esto cuando

estudiábamos, estudiábamos como influían las condiciones socioeconómicas y

familiares en el resultado académico, en el desarrollo personal de la persona, en

las capacidades cognitivas, y claro que influye, influye una barbaridad. El simple

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hecho de leer, los hijos de familias ricas que sus padres son universitarios aprender

a leer mucho antes, porque sus padres leen periódicos habitualmente, porque ven

libros habitualmente, porque los tienen en casa, porque les motivan, porque leen

con ellos. Una familia de no universitarios que no tienen hábito de lectura no se lo

trasladan a los hijos, y eso, si queremos una sociedad desarrollada pues hay que

compensarlo desde el estado, no queda otra.

Pregunta - La cuestionable eficiencia de la actual reforma laboral impuesta por el actual

gobierno, España tenia cinco millones de parados antes de la introducción de la reforma

labora y actualmente supera los seis millones, ¿Está siendo un fracaso?, ¿Cómo se podría

mejorar esa reforma laboral para que creara empleo?

Respuesta - El problema de las reformas laborales en este país de las cinco que

ha habido ya sean del PP o del PSOE es que ha seguido creyendo en la denuncia

constate de los sindicatos que las leyes configuran el mercado laboral, no es así,

el mercado laboral lo configura el sistema productivo de un país, entonces cuando

tú tienes un sistema productivo basado exclusivamente en el ladrillo, lo que tienes

es un sistema productivo precario porque es un sector precarizado y lo único que

pueden hacer las leyes laborales al respecto del sistema productivo es garantizar

mejores o peores condiciones de la parte débil de la relación que es el empleado y

desde luego todas las reformas que han ignorado intervenir sobre el sistema

productivo y todas las reformas han retrocedido en proteger los derechos de los

más débiles. Esta última es el remate, yo vengo esta mañana de los juzgados de la

Comunidad de Madrid, donde como se han suspendido todos los convenios pues

ahora es el caos, y la relación laboral depende del jefe de turno depende

concederte ciertas prerrogativas que antes estaban reflejadas en convenio, y esto

es un sector que es un sector público que tenía unas condiciones inmejorables,

imagínate la hostelería, la mecánica, los obradores, los constructores, los

conductores… Hay toda una población que esta desprotegida y que su empresario

puede hacer exactamente lo que le dé la gana, esto no genera empleo sino que lo

destruye porque es una estupidez pensar que si flexibilizas las condiciones del

despido van a producir trabajo, no eso van a producir más despidos, si me sale

más barato voy a despedir más, ¿Voy a contratar más? No, no tengo ninguna

necesidad, yo pienso que es una locura y hay que volver atrás pero sobre es

importante incidir que la legislación laboral sirve para defender a la parte más débil

pero no sirve para generar más empleo ni sirve para modificar el sistema

productivo.

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Pregunta - En teoría las empresas privadas resultan ser mas eficientes y efectivas dado el

entorno donde se desarrollan que las empresas publicas. ¿Cuál seria el sentido de

nacionalizar los sectores estratégicos?

Respuesta - Yo creo que sí, que la clave fundamental en la situación de los países

del sur de Europa es que no tenemos soberanía, y no tenemos soberanía porque

se la hemos cedido a Europa y se ve claramente en el ámbito económico, y por

tanto hay que recuperar la capacidad de tomar decisiones sobre la economía. Lo

de nacionalizar la banca pública que se preocupara por garantizar el crédito, por

garantizar el bienestar de la ciudadanía, por la inversión pública, garantizaría que

hay un criterio que prioriza los intereses de la sociedad frente a los beneficios

empresariales, eso en el caso de los financieros. Y en el caso de las energéticas es

mucho más importante, fíjate en el caso de las energéticas no es solo es una

cuestión de lo imprescindible sino que en el mundo actual supone el acceso a la

energía para unas condiciones dignas de vida, sino que además hay un aspecto

que es el impacto medioambiental que genera la producción o la extracción de

determinados sistemas energéticos o de la apuesta por un modelo o por otro, y eso

es algo que le debemos a las generaciones futuras. Si una empresa tiene que

pensar en lo que le es de mejor interés va a pensar a corto plazo, a una empresa

no le interesa si en el año 2050 va a tener mucho beneficio porque ha hecho una

apuesta energética. Por tanto, los elementos estratégicos no solo garantizan los

derechos fundamentales sino el bienestar de la sociedad que ya es bastante, sino

que además garantizan que la producción y las explotación energética sea acuerdo

a los criterios sostenibles para el futuro de las generaciones. Yo creo que en este

país es una cosa clave, no se entiende que haya más paneles solares en Noruega

que en España, cuando aquí las horas de sol son mucho más productivas, no se

entiende que haya comunidades que hayan decido apostar por huertos solares y

producción de la energía limpia, y en cambio en la Comunidad de Madrid no hay ni

uno sólo porque se ha decido se pueden instalar paneles en determinados edificios

y con unos índices de productividad energética. Eso cualquiera que lo piense es un

plan que no responde al interés colectivo, responde a los intereses de las grandes

empresas enérgicas que quieren seguir haciendo negocios, por tanto los sectores

estratégicos tienen que estar en manos del estado, porque sólo el Estado podrá

garantizar que lo que rige su productividad, su producción y su producción es el

interés de la sociedad y no el de sus propietarios.

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Pregunta - Una última pregunta; más del 99% de las empresas españolas son pymes, las

cuales son el motor para mantener y generar trabajo. La banca privada utiliza la mayoría

de los activos dados por la Comunidad Europea para su propio saneamiento dejando a las

empresas desprovistas del crédito necesario para su desarrollo. ¿Se debería exigir a la

banca mas solidaridad con las pymes o se debería crear una banca publica que vele por

este propósito?

Respuesta - Desde luego si hubiera una banca pública, la prioridad de la banca

pública sería esa , garantizar la viabilidad del crédito para dar a las familias y para

las empresas que generan trabajo porque son más débiles y están más

desprotegidas, en este país efectivamente solo el 1.1% de las empresas

impositivas son grandes empresas, la mayoría son pequeñas empresas, pequeños

comercios y ahí no solo el tema de la banca, hay que empezar a pensar bueno,

que la apuesta liberadora en sectores como comercio hace polvo a las pequeñas

empresas y a los pequeños negocios; los retrasos de los pagos, el volumen de

empresas que se están cerrando en este país es una pasada, yo creo que las

legislaciones que se han iniciado para emprendedores y a favor de pequeñas

empresas creo que se quedan muy cortas y que hay que empezar a tomarse muy

enserio que esas empresas son las que realmente producen el mayor número de

puestos en este país y por tanto lo que son necesitan garantías económicas,

viabilidad de crédito adaptado a sus condiciones de pequeñas empresas y

sistemas impositivos un poco acorde con el sitio económico de sus propias

empresas, no pueden ser que tengan más beneficios fiscales las grandes

empresas que un pequeño negocio de barrio que se está dejando los cuernos para

sacar adelante, y a lo mejor da trabajo a una familia, a dos o a tres, que hay

algunos que llegan a ese nivel.

-Pues muchas gracias eso es todo.

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Entrevista 2: Juan Torres López

Pregunta - ¿Cuáles cree usted que han sido los detonantes de la crisis económica

española?

Respuesta – Pues básicamente dos por una parte el impacto de la crisis

económica internacional y por otro lado la crisis de un modelo productivo basado

en el sector inmobiliario en donde se había producido una burbuja muy grande que

termino finalmente estallando.

Pregunta - ¿Entonces no hemos vivido por encima de nuestras posibilidades como nos

quieren hacer creer?

Respuesta – No hombre, eso es una manera de hablar un poco absurda, no

significa nada eso es una manera de hablar es un juicio moral el que lleva la

culpabilidad de la gente.

Pregunta - ¿Cuál es la correlación entre la crisis económica y crisis política e institucional

española?

Respuesta – Bueno, siempre ha habido crisis política, pero lo ocurre es que la

crisis genera también un espacio de confrontación social por que lógicamente los

diferentes grupos sociales tratan de darle una salida diferente y entonces están

digamos los grupos dominantes, los grupos de más poder financiero y económico

están tratando y consiguiendo imponer una respuesta a la crisis muy contrarias a

las preferencias de la inmensa mayoría de la sociedad, entonces se creen que para

conseguirlo tienen que situarse fuera de esas preferencias y por lo tanto pues al

margen de la representatividad política y eso provoca la crisis de la democracia en

la que estamos.

Pregunta - ¿Es legitima y sostenible la deuda española respecto a sus acreedores, o bien

se debería renegociar o dejar transitoriamente de pagar?.

Respuesta – En primer lugar lo que habría que hacer es analizarla, ver

efectivamente de donde procede y ver si hay razones para repudiarla. Yo creo que

las hay, sobre todo porque yo creo que es una evidencia que gran parte de esta

deuda es una deuda que está provocada por manipulaciones de algunos

mercados, especuladores y sobre todo porque tiene una componente fundamental

que son los de gastos financieros, los intereses, que se podían dedicar

perfectamente si se hubiera deseado que no tuvieran tanto privilegio los bancos

privados.

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Pregunta - ¿Se debería hacer una auditoria?

Respuesta – Si exactamente... debería auditarse

Pregunta - ¿Tendría España consecuencias negativas impuestas por Europa en el caso

de impago de la deuda?

Respuesta – Bueno lógicamente de Europa no, pero si algunos acreedores, pero

siempre que hay un pulso, un conflicto, las partes toman fuerza entonces

consecuencias habría claro, si los especuladores, los que sacan dinero con esto

lógicamente no iban a que quedarse de brazos cruzados lo que habría que hacer

sería negociar un argumento y una fortaleza social y política y hacer frente a eso.

Pregunta - ¿Sería viable una salida de España del euro?

Respuesta – Vamos porque no va a ser viable, nada está escrito, lógicamente

sería muy problemático, conllevaría muchos problemas, yo no sé si más o menos

que lo que está provocando mantenernos dentro que es algo insufrible pero como

por supuesto cualquier otra decisión social por supuesto tendría.

Pregunta - ¿Sobre las políticas de austeridad impuestas por Europa, son medidas

acertadas o por lo contrario atentan contra el estado de bienestar español?

Respuesta – Bueno yo creo que sobre las medidas que corresponde o que

interesa a los grandes grupos financieros, a los grandes empresariales que tienen

su influencia política, que tienen gobiernos a su servicio que logran dominarlos y

que por lo tanto llevan a cabo lo que les interesa a ellos. Es lo que tenemos y es lo

que habría que combatir, es decir lograr que la ciudadanía tuviera fuerza y lograr

que la ciudadanía pudiera imponer su voluntad sobre la de estos grupos

minoritarios por muy poderosos que sean.

Pregunta - Usted ha dicho en más de una ocasión que una tasa alta de paro beneficia a

los gobiernos capitalistas y a las grandes empresas ¿En que se basa usted para tener

esta opinión?

Respuesta – Pues lógicamente por que el desempleo, cualquiera que lo haya

padecido sabe perfectamente, que debilita a las clases trabajadoras, cuando

alguien se encuentra en paro lo único que busca es que haya trabajo cómo sea,

aceptar trabajo que sea las condiciones que le impongan, entonces lógicamente el

desempleo por esa razón debilita y se apodera de las clases trabajadoras.

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Pregunta - ¿Cuál sería un sistema impositivo ideal para una futura reforma fiscal en

España?

Respuesta – Bueno es que no hay en realidad políticas ideales hay características

que se aproximan más o menos a determinadas preferencias sociales. Si son

rentistas o un especulador financiero consideraría que el sistema fiscal ideal sería

el que no grava a las rentas de capital o las rentas de especulación financiera. Si

soy trabajador pediría que el sistema fiscal fuera el que fuera más generoso con

mis rentas, entonces creo que el sistema fiscal es la expresión de una lucha de

clases, es la expresión del conflicto que hay en la sociedad y se traduce en las

formulas de política fiscal que benefician a unos o a otros.

Pregunta - Sobre el salario, España tiene un salario mínimo de 728 Euros, casi el más

bajo de toda Europa y las pensiones también están muy por debajo de la media europea

¿Resultaría viable subir el salario mínimo interprofesional y las pensiones ante la situación

de inestabilidad económica actual?.

Respuesta – Es que sería una manera de salir de la crisis porque, en la que

estamos hundidos porque hay una escasez de demanda porque los salarios son

muy bajos, para que saliéramos de la crisis haría falta aumentar el ingreso,

aumentar la demanda, incrementar el consumo y por lo tanto para ello sería

absolutamente necesario aumentar el salario mínimo.

Pregunta - El salario mínimo interprofesional ha decrecido en los últimos años con la

excusa de no ser lo suficientemente productivo con respecto a Europa. ¿Cómo España

podría ser mas productiva sin el perjuicio de rebajar los salarios de los trabajadores?.

Respuesta – Primero el concepto de productividad utilizado en general para toda

la economía es un absurdo, porque hay que aplicarlo a diferentes actividades. Un

peluquero alemán es igual de productivo que un peluquero español, o un camarero

alemán no creo que sea más productivo que un camarero español. Lo hay que

diferenciar según las actividades económicas. Que ocurre, en algunos países que

tienen una mayor cantidad adquirida, tiene efecto que es más productivo porque

tienen mayor valor añadido, componentes de innovación y de tecnología por lo

tanto lo que habría que hacer sería aumentar el espacio en que esos sectores

tienen en la economía española.

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Pregunta - El capital humano es esencial para crear riqueza en una nación, por lo que

unos de los pilares a mantener y desarrollar es el sistema educativo publico. ¿Cuál seria el

marco ideal de la reforma de un sistema educativo deficitario debido al alto fracaso

estudiantil en enseñanzas medias y la inefectividad de las universidades españolas que no

propician la adecuada inserción al mercado laboral?

Respuesta – Falla inversión y sobre todo recursos ¿no? Para que tenga más

éxitos. Hay que tener en cuenta que en el sistema educativo español se han

incorporado en los últimos 30 años una cohorte de personas inmensa, se ha

incorporado mucha gente al sistema educativo y por lo tanto es normal que haya

muchas dificultades.

Yo creo que hace falta más recursos, más atención, más profesores, también más

cultura en el medioambiente porque eso influye mucho, el entorno familiar, social

influye mucho en el éxito educativo. Y creo que esto también hay que apoyarlo y

básicamente eso lo que hace que tengamos el 28% de fracaso escolar.

Pregunta - La cuestionable eficiencia de la actual reforma laboral impuesta por el actual

gobierno, España tenia cinco millones de parados antes de la introducción de la reforma

labora y actualmente supera los seis millones, ¿Está siendo un fracaso?, ¿Cómo se podría

mejorar esa reforma laboral para que creara empleo?

Respuesta – Bueno es que no ha sido un fracaso, ha sido un éxito para lo que

pretendían, eliminar derechos y eliminar la capacidad de negociación clásica de los

trabajadores, y despedir con más facilidad las empresas, ha sido un éxito eso es lo

que se buscaba con esa reforma y lo han conseguido.

Pregunta - Pero, nos la habían vendido que era para crear más empleo, ser más

productivos y mas competitivos. ¿No?

Respuesta – Ellos mismos sabían que no se iba a conseguir eso…

Pregunta - En teoría las empresas privadas resultan ser mas eficientes y efectivas dado el

entorno donde se desarrollan que las empresas publicas. ¿Cuál seria el sentido de

nacionalizar los sectores estratégicos?

Respuesta – Bueno es que hay sectores por los que no hay que tener beneficio,

pero vamos si algunos lo tienen en el ámbito privado también lo tendrían en el

público, lo tenían antes o sea que podrían ser igual de rentables o más.

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Pregunta - Mas del 99% de las empresas españolas son pymes, las cuales son el motor

para mantener y generar trabajo. La banca privada utiliza la mayoría de los activos dados

por Comunidad Europea para su propio saneamiento dejando a las empresas desprovistas

del crédito necesario para su desarrollo. ¿Se debería exigir a la banca mas solidaridad con

las pymes o se debería crear una banca publica que vele por este propósito?

Respuesta – Bueno las pymes son las que más empleo crean y por lo tanto hay

que cuidarla, lo que pasa ahora es que efectivamente se la maltrata y no permite

que se cree mercado interno algo que es fundamental que hagan es que

efectivamente es que la pequeña y mediana empresa tenga más apoyo y una

presencia mucho más grande en la economía española

Pregunta - Como podemos ser más competitivos se quejan de que no somos un país

competitivo ¿qué deberíamos mejorar? ¿Qué pilares son básicos para mejorar nuestra

competitividad?

Respuesta – Bueno no es exactamente es verdad eso, la competitividad también

es otro concepto absolutamente falto de rigor, eso es un concepto que se usa para

todo y que hay que ponerlo en su sitio, ¿no? si la competitividad si se entiende

como la mejor capacidad de vender fuera, nos sufre el cinismo, porque no toda la

economía tiene que estar volcada hacia exterior y bueno en todo caso podemos

mirar como son los países que son más competitivos en nuestro entorno como es

el caso de Suecia, Dinamarca, en Holanda que son muy competitivos y vemos

como están funcionando y cómo estamos funcionando nosotros. Entonces claro

hay diferentes maneras de hacer frente a la competitividad, puede ser una

competitividad a través de la innovación, de la calidad y otra competitividad a

través del empobrecimiento de los salarios cada día más bajos. Es evidente que

eso no tiene los mismos resultados ¿no?

Pregunta - Últimamente el ministro de economía nos ha dicho que hay datos que

estamos saliendo de la crisis, ¿usted ve algunos datos que de verdad a corto plazo

vayamos a mejorar?

Respuesta – No, no se lo cree ni él tampoco, lo dice para engañar a la gente,

llevando diciendo eso tres o cuatro años pero no tiene nada que ver con lo que

está pasando, de verdad.

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Pregunta - No sabe usted más o menos, no hay ningunos datos que indiquen más o

menos cuánto va a durar la crisis...

Respuesta – No, no, no estamos todavía... además lo importante no es cuándo

vamos a salir si no cómo vamos a salir ¿no?

- Muchas gracias, eso era todo.

  134  

Entrevista 3: Movimiento 15M Pregunta - ¿Cuáles son los principales ideales del Movimiento 15M?

Respuesta - Pues la primera idea es el lema que surgió en la manifestación, es

que no somos mercancías en manos de políticos ni de banqueros, que al fin y al

cabo era una propuesta del bipartidismo en manos de la banca.

Pregunta - ¿Cuáles son los detonantes de la crisis económica española y sus similitudes y

diferencias con respecto a la crisis de otros países europeos?

Respuesta - En mi opinión la crisis es el planteamiento que viene mucho más

atrás de lo que creemos, la crisis de valores fue el salto a la economía financiera

en España , el endeudamiento, la burbuja inmobiliaria, etc.…Yo creo que viene de

la economía financiera, una crisis del capitalismo.

Pregunta - Entonces la idea de que hemos vivido por encima de nuestras posibilidades es

mentira ¿No?

Respuesta - No, realmente no, si no cobras bastante dinero, si no tienes un sueldo

decente para poder tener un bien básico como una vivienda, si eso es vivir por

encima de tus posibilidades tener una vivienda, e irte de vacaciones diez días al

año. No creo, alguno habrá vivido por encima de sus posibilidades pero la mayoría

de la gente no, si no tienes un sueldo decente, entonces necesitas recurrir al

crédito y cuando necesitas recurrir al crédito tu sueldo está embargado por un

banco, los hechos están ahí.

Pregunta - ¿Es legitima y sostenible la deuda española respecto a sus acreedores, o bien

se debería renegociar o dejar transitoriamente de pagar?

Respuesta - Yo creo eso, primero una gran parte de la deuda es ilegitima y

segundo no nos pertenece a los españoles si no a las empresas privadas, que han

estado jugando el dinero, lo que no se puede hacer es privatizar los beneficios y

socializar las pérdidas, entonces la mayor parte de la deuda que tiene España

como estado, como nación es ilegitima, porque pertenece a distintas entidades

financieras; lo que se debe hacer a mi punto de vista es declararla ilegitima no

pagarla.

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Pregunta - ¿Cuáles serian las consecuencias negativas impuestas por Europa en el caso

de impago de la deuda y si esto seria un mal menor para la recuperación economia del

país?

Respuesta - Pero bueno, eso es otra muestra de la falta de democracia, de la falta

de transparencia de la Unión Europea, nosotros estamos en un parlamento

europeo poco representativo en el que de por si España tiene un peso medio, pero

de todas formas de la mayor parte de las leyes están detrás empresas privadas y

están hechas a medidas de empresas privadas, es una falta total de democracia de

la Unión Europea. Que otra Unión Europea esta no nos vale, salgámonos o

cambiemos la Unión Europea. Podríamos salir o cambiar la Unión Europea lo que

no nos sirve es esto, quedarnos, no nos vale una sociedad europea con todos

problemas nuestros, problemas de los griegos, problema de los alemanes, que

están a empezando a decaer otra vez, siempre tambaleándose, los ciudadanos de

a pie no tenemos capacidad de democracia, porque estamos gobernados por las

corporaciones , de todas formas no soy economista, pero gente economistas dice

que esta Unión Europea no, no se podría controlar el nivel de juego que tienes en

la Unión Europea, por ejemplo Noruega, Suiza. Europa es una cosa relativamente

reciente.

Pregunta - ¿Sobre las políticas de austeridad impuestas por Europa, son medidas

acertadas o por el contrario atentan contra el estado bienestar español?

Respuesta - Por mi parte estoy en contra, primero esas medidas de austeridad lo

que están haciendo es están repercutiendo en la vida de la mayor parte de la

población, por otro lado esas medidas son totalmente injustas, lo que están

haciendo es intentar ver que la privatización del estado del bienestar, es una

decisión política. España tiene uno de los sistemas de salud más barato y eficiente

de Europa, el tan alabado el sistema americano de salud y luego nosotros

tenemos más sanidad y mas esperanza de vida que ya se está empezando a notar

decrecer con los recortes, ya hay consecuencias con los recortes, creciendo la

mortalidad. Es que la gente no se pude permitir cosas tan básicas como

medicamentos, gente se está quitando de comer para pagar los medicamentos, no

nos están dejando elegir que medicamentos compramos, no solo a nosotros como

clientes si no que los hospitales mismo no tienen capacidad de decidir, quitar el

mínimo, no tienes posibilidad de decisión, no quieren ni siquiera gastarse….luego

los impuestos…. Hay compañías que tienen mucha relación con los miembros del

gobierno, son cosas que te hacen ver que no son decisiones políticas, ni siquiera

económicas.

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Pregunta - ¿Cuáles serian los pasos efectivos a seguir para una reforma de la ley

electoral?

Respuesta - Pues no sé, ahí es donde queremos acabar ya el juego que es para

decir que estado queremos, que Europa queremos, que medidas podemos tener

para que no vuelva a pasar lo que está pasando ahora. Lo que no podemos tener

es a un presidente del tribunal supremo, que está afiliado a un partido político, no

podemos tener esa mierda de falsa independencia de poderes. No podemos tener

tampoco la Unión Europea que está totalmente al servicio de las corporaciones

está clarísimo que todos los miembros de las ejecutivas anteriores han acabado

trabajando para la eléctrica, lo que más pagamos los españoles en la factura de la

luz, son deudas inventadas de la compañía eléctrica. Te hace ver que debemos

establecer un nuevo sistema de juego, no sé, mi punto de vista, yo no soy

comunista, ni, pero sí creo que debemos ver algo que supere a la economía

financiera y trabajar más con la economía real, lo que se está haciendo es sacar un

dinero falso que surge del a nada, que se desembolsa un montón de pasta todo lo

del mundo, y al final lo que tenemos son macro empresas que están chupando del

sistema público, dinero de todos; cuando ese dinero debería ser organizado de

otra forma que nosotros queramos tener que nos repercuta a todos. Cuando una

empresa pública tenga beneficios no nos vuelva a repercutir, en las cosas que nos

pertenecen a todos, no digo que todas las empresas deberían ser públicas, pero

ahora mismo lo que se está haciendo es sacar dinero de la pública y dárselo a los

que tienen ya de por sí mucho dinero, creo primero un proceso sustituyente y

luego un proceso constituyente…y a partir de ahí decidir que España queremos y

que Europa queremos.

Pregunta - ¿Cuál seria el sistema electoral ‘perfecto’ o posible frente al bipartidismo

actual?

Respuesta - Pues vaya no solo una ley de transparencia sino que también que no

prescriban los derechos de corrupción me parece una de las cosas más urgentes

que hay que cambiar. Que se destituya a cualquier persona que esté en un

proceso, por honestidad la idea sería que surgiera de la persona, pero que si no

que fuera obligatorio por ley, lo que no pueden tener es impunidad y luego no

sabemos que ahora mismo, había una elecciones nueva, el PSOE y PP están en

bajos históricos, que quien venga nos sé que va a pasar, el sistema electoral ya

está agotado, de todas formas el sistema electoral beneficia a estos grandes

partidos.

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Pregunta - ¿Qué medidas se debería incluir en una ley de transparencia que luche contra

la corrupción política y económica?

Respuesta - Una persecución en serio y en cuerpo de inspectores a las grandes

empresas, porque la mayor parte de la corrupción fiscal viene de las grandes

empresas, se debería perseguir el fraude fiscal tendríamos más dinero que ahora

podría ayudar bastante lo que pasa es que no interesa.

Pregunta - ¿Ayudaría a poder mantener las pensiones, que es unos de los problemas que

tiene España?

Pregunta - Bueno ayudaría un poco a todo, no es la solución universal, pero

también ayudaría a la gente a pagar los impuestos porque dicen, es que los

grandes roban más y es verdad. Con qué autoridad moral le vas a decir a un

autónomo que tiene el agua al cuello, cuando normalmente el pequeño empresario

o autónomo paga religiosamente y luego un gran empresario está robando a lo

grande y no le pasa nada. Con qué autoridad moral le vas a decir que se va

aquedar €50 cuando hay gente que se está embolsando millones. Yo creo que

serviría para dar un poco de moralidad a la sociedad.

Pregunta - El Banco Central Europeo, Alemania, el Fondo Monetario Internacional, nos

dice que los salarios son demasiado altos en España porque no es un país productivo

¿Como de podría plantear la productividad de un país sin tener que bajar los salarios?

Otros métodos tiene que haber…

Respuesta - Es que es mentira, la productividad, aunque trabajáramos 17 horas

no seriamos productivos, a mi punto de vista es un proceso que se han sacado de

la manga, lo único que veo es que la gente trabaja duro, ¿qué es ser productivo?

¿Es una palabra con la que se llenan la boca, pero que es? Para qué debemos

trabajar más horas, cuando hay tanto paro, hay seis millones de parados, ¿por qué

no se le reducen horas a la gente? ¿Por qué no se reparten? Así la gente puede

tener más tiempo, puede consumir, estar menos cansados, si las personas

trabajaran menos horas sería mejor, cuando se trabaja muchas horas tienes más

accidentes te pones mas enfermo, seria cobrar un sueldo decente, y menos horas

de trabajo.

Pregunta - ¿Resultaría viable subir el salario mínimo interprofesional y las pensiones

como dice su programa ante la situación de inestabilidad económica actual?

Respuesta - Claro que si, Francia ahí lo tienes y no estamos tan mal hasta ahora,

si sube el sueldo mínimo, sube el consumo, si todas las personas cobraran 1000

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euros al mes…El salario mínimo de España es bastante más bajo que los países

nórdicos, se debería subir el sueldo mínimo, esas personas tendrían más poder

adquisitivo y por lo tanto podrían gastar más, entonces sería mejor según la lógica

capitalista.

Pregunta - Adam Smith decía que el capital humano es esencial para crear la riqueza de

una nación, en España hay 28.4% de abandono escolar en lo que es la ESO, casi el más

alto de Europa. ¿Cómo cree usted que podemos mejorar esta situación ¿La nueva ley

impuesta por el PP puede mejorarla? ¿O cree usted que no va a mejorar estas

estadísticas tan negativas?

Respuesta - Esto es mas complicado, partimos de que hemos sido un país más

pobre, tenemos un acceso a la cultura muy limitado, la cultura que se ofrece en las

colegios es la cultura de la clase media alta donde los niños no se sienten

identificados, quiero decir que tenemos que cambiar la forma en la que damos

clase en los colegios, está clarísimo. Hay que hacer otra escuela pública, hay una

mierda de inversión en la escuela pública cuando se han invertido montones de

dinero en obras faraónicas, si hubiéramos invertido más en la escuela pública y

tuviéramos más formación del profesorado bajaría el fracaso escolar. La

universidad lo primero no tiene que enseñar cómo trabaja una empresa, se tiene

que enseñar a como pensar y a ser capaz tu de aprender lo que vas a hacer en el

futuro, Primero hay que enseñar al profesor el profesor está anticuado, no tiene

porque enseñar todas las maquinas de Samsung pero enseñarte como funcionan,

te tiene que dar la estrategia y la forma de aprender, sobe todo un trasfondo. La

universidad no tiene que ser la escuela de formación de las empresas, de hecho

las empresas no invierten una mierda en formación, y deberían ser las primeras

que den la capacidad de enseñar a la gente, que luego las becas que dan, no les

tiene que ir tan mal a los estudiantes cuando ya empiezan a trabajar como

personas normales, cuando en teoría deberías tener un tutor. Aunque hay un

fracaso escolar enorme la universidad española a nivel científico es una de las más

reconocidas, ha estado es los últimos años muy bien, un gran avance científico que

no habíamos tenido nunca, pero le han cortado la financiación, se tienen que

cambiar formas de la universidad, cátedras inamovibles, una universidad mas

social y democrática.

Pregunta - ¿Qué estudios académicos tiene usted?

Respuesta - Técnico superior en administración del sistema informático, filología

inglesa, máster de educación, ahora estoy preparando un doctorado.

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Pregunta - ¿Debería España invertir mas en investigación y innovación?

Respuesta - Está saliendo un artículo sobre la falacia de la rentabilidad de

inversión y el desarrollo, todo lo que se investiga más tarde o más temprano va a

acabar dando frutos sobre todo en ciencia y luego en formación humanística

también. No debemos cortar los gasto de investigación, tiene que haber un control,

lo que más vale hoy en día es la Viagra y las grandes revistas de investigación

están financiadas por las grandes empresas farmacéuticas igual que la economía

siempre financiada por grandes entidades y sino no te publican, te están coartando

tu libertad para investigar porque lo que prima en investigación, es mientras más

investigaciones hagas mejor, no se pude evaluar por ese parámetro, tiene que ser

una empresa externa, necesitamos más democracia y más participación.

Pregunta - La cuestionable eficiencia de la actual reforma laboral impuesta por el actual

gobierno, España tenia cinco millones de parados antes de la introducción de la reforma

labora y actualmente supera los seis millones, ¿Está siendo un fracaso?, ¿Cómo se podría

mejorar esa reforma laboral para que creara empleo?

Respuesta - La gran pregunta! Se debe innovar de verdad, innovar en tecnologías

renovables España es el país de Europa que mas sol tiene, invertir en tecnologías

renovables, invertir en cosas que no hay, si estamos en este mundo posindustrial

que se han llevado todo a países del tercer mundo donde no hay derechos

laborales, pues deberíamos dedicarnos a investigar. La ciencia es fundamental, un

mejor reparto laboral, ahora mismo como estamos necesitamos una renta básica

para que la gente no se muera de hambre y la gente con una renta básica, con sus

necesidades básicas cubiertas no va a coger un trabajo de mierda que se le ofrece

, con un mal sueldo que le cuesta de su salud y su felicidad, reducir las horas de

trabajo y subir el salario mínimo, todo lo contrario a lo que se está haciendo ahora,

y luego una protección al trabajador mayor, facilitar a las empresas que cree

empleo, dar seguridad, si no hay seguridad no hay confianza a la hora de

consumir, seguir avanzando en derechos sociales no retrocediendo.

Pregunta - En teoría las empresas privadas resultan ser mas eficientes y efectivas dado el

entorno donde se desarrollan que las empresas publicas. ¿Cuál seria el sentido de

nacionalizar los sectores estratégicos?

Repuesta - Pues eso todo es de todos, el agua es de todos no tiene dueño, es de

los españoles y el sol no es de nadie ni la tierra tampoco, esos sectores que todos

nos beneficiamos y hacemos uso, eso tiene que ser común, se tiene que ver la

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forma tiene que haber una banca pública que financie las iniciativas de la gente,

creo que va a ser más barato todo, debería ser nacionalizado tenemos la luz más

cara de Europa, esto es debido a una política neoliberal impuesta por nuestro

gobierno. Se debería nacionalizar los sectores estratégicos mínimo, las grandes

empresas que están cayendo que parecen rentable, podrían pasar a ser

cooperativa, se puede hacer de otra manera que no sea nacionalizarlo, la

cooperativa por ejemplo Mondragón, hay cosas como Eroski que están controlados

por sus propios trabajadores.

Pregunta – El del 99% de las empresas españolas son pymes, las cuales son el motor

para mantener y generar trabajo. La banca privada utiliza la mayoría de los activos dados

por Comunidad Europea para su propio saneamiento dejando a las empresas desprovistas

del crédito necesario para su desarrollo. ¿Se debería exigir a la banca mas solidaridad con

las pymes o se debería crear una banca publica que vele por este propósito?

Respuesta - Yo trabajaba en una pyme y no tenia manera de financiarse, estaba

controlado por una familia y al final la compro una gran empresa, por eso no les

interesa, está claro que hay que ayudar a que la gente tenga control sobre su

propio trabajo, luego las pymes son las que mejor condiciones laborales dan a sus

trabajadores, no en el sueldo pero si en condiciones y en calidad de vida. Hay que

ayudar a las pymes, quizás por ley, sino que el gobierno cree cosas para

ayudarles, los banco pueden decidir lo que hacen con su dinero..

Pregunta - ¿Qué efectos tendrá la fuga de celebros que esta sufriendo el país?

Respuesta - Si somos la generación que mejor formación tenemos y es que te

mueres de hambre, tengo 27 años y estoy viviendo con mis padres, no te da el

sueldo para desarrollarte como persona. Es que tienes que irte fuera, no es que se

viva mucho mejor pero un poquito si, pero tienes que vivir lejos de los tuyos y de tu

barrio, de tu gente, y se están creando dramas familiares que ya es a nivel

personal y a nivel económico, no sé qué modelo de país quieren pero será el

geriátrico de Europa. Que nos iremos todos y se quedaran ellos, yo me quedo en

España a luchar, me quedo aquí porque lo que están al poder no están jodiendo el

futuro a nosotros y a nuestros padres, tenemos la necesidad de vivir bien, no culpo

a nadie que se quiera ir. Es normal.

No soy economista, soy una persona que se preocupa.

  141  

Entrevista 4: Jorge A. Calvo Pazos

Pregunta - ¿Cuáles cree usted que son los detonantes de la crisis económica española y

sus similitudes y diferencias con respecto a la crisis de otros países europeos?

Respuesta - ¡Vamos a ver! la crisis económica española y similitudes con respecto

a la crisis de otros países yo lo que creo es que la gente tiene una idea equivocada

de lo que son las crisis en el funcionamiento del sistema capitalista, la gente piensa

que, que hay periodos de bonanza en el funcionamiento del sistema capitalista y

esos periodos de bonanza se ven interrumpidos por crisis puntuales que se deben

a funcionamientos de mercado o situaciones varias. Pero bueno, lo que pretende el

capitalismo es la concentración del capital en cada vez menos manos por eso hay

menos ricos que tienen cada vez más dinero y mas diferencia entre los ricos y los

que no lo son.

Pregunta - ¿Por qué no se ha notado tanto la crisis aquí en Inglaterra tanto comparado

con España?

Respuesta - Pues porque en España lo que pasa es tiene unas características

especificas que en aquí no las hay y en otros países no las había. En España baso

su modelo en la construcción desde que llegó Aznar y con la ley del suelo, pues

que los bancos prestaban dinero a las constructoras para que construyeran y en

teoría cuanto más tienes de un bien, si tienes muchísimas patatas el precio de las

patatas baja, si tienes muchísimos tomates el precio de los tomates bajan y si

tienes muchísimas viviendas no es posible que el precio de la vivienda no baje,

tendría que haber bajado, ahí fue donde… y no bajaba y decían que no iba a bajar

además ahí es donde se infló la burbuja inmobiliaria y entonces las constructoras

estaban construyendo mucho. Bueno se basó el modelo productivo español en la

construcción. Cuando estalla la crisis financiera que tiene su origen en Estados

Unidos lo que estaban haciendo en las corporaciones en el 2009 eran pasarse una

patata caliente, tenía un paquete de bonos que eran préstamos de deuda, de gente

que no iban a poder pagar esa deuda y se las estaban pasando de unos a otros

hasta que llegó el momento en que se acabó la música. En España se esta

sufriendo mas la crisis porque nada más producía una cosa, en el Reino Unido

también había una burbuja inmobiliaria pero el petróleo en Escocía todavía lo

tienen y es el centro financiero mundial y tiene otros sectores en los cuales son

competitivos.

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Pregunta - ¿Cuál es la correlación entre la crisis económica y crisis política?

Respuesta - Yo creo que la crisis política e institucional española tiene su base en

la transición española que se hizo en España, no hubo una transición en base a

una ruptura, lo que hubo fue una claudicación de las fuerzas políticas que al final

pensaron que no era posible esa ruptura democrática y entonces pues adaptaron

las instituciones franquistas a una nueva situación política, que es

institucionalmente el rey es el sucesor de Franco y las Cortes españolas son una

evolución de las cortes franquistas, vale que ahora están formadas... donde se

pueden escoger a los diputados aunque la forma de escoger a los diputados no

sea muy democrática en comparación con otros países. La calidad democrática

que en España es baja pero no está ligado a la crisis económica, esto está ligado

al propio origen de las estructuras políticas en España y de las instituciones que en

España vienen del franquismo que son una evolución de las instituciones

franquistas, hay un pecado original de ellas y entonces lo que hace la crisis

económica es que la gente se dé cuenta de estas cosas.

Pregunta - ¿Que usted ve que la deuda que tiene España no es sostenible y que no se

debería pagar?

Respuesta - Bueno, pues, yo que sé, de esto estaba hablando con un abogado

muy famoso José Antón Pérez Rema, quien dice que la deuda española una parte

es clarísimamente ilegítima. El derecho internacional dice que la deuda ilegitima va

en contra de los intereses de la ciudadanía pues esa deuda no hay que pagarla, si

en particular ese tramo de deuda que Rajoy ha dedicado a la banca, que la van a

tener que pagar todos los españoles, a fin de cuentas es transformar deuda

pública, la deuda privada en deuda pública.

Pregunta - ¿Es viable una salida del euro?

Respuesta - Bueno algunos economistas están debatiendo que a lo mejor la salida

más fácil era tener dos euros diferentes, un euro del norte y uno del sur, así los

países del sur que son los mas afectados podrían devaluar la moneda. Cuando se

hizo el tratado de Maastricht ya decían que iba a pasar estas cosas pasarían que

una sola moneda con tantos países tan diferentes económicamente iba ser

criminal. España tiene gente que realmente lo están pasada mal en estos tiempo

de crisis y la única baza que tiene España es pegar un puñetazo en la mesa y

amenazar con la salida de Europa así seguro que empezarían a hablar de una

solución, porque EU no permitiría la salida de España porque no les interesa.

  143  

Pregunta - ¿Sobre las políticas de austeridad impuestas por Europa, son medidas

acertadas o por el contrario atentan contra el estado de bienestar español?

Respuesta - Eso son medidas son medidas injustas, si tu si ves un profesor que le

han bajado el sueldo por los recortes y mañana no es que ya te bajen el sueldo es

que te despiden, con es paso del tiempo destrozara el estado de bienestar español.

Además van a cerrar mas empresas, lo que consiguen es que la gente tenga

menos dinero y puedan gastar menos, los empresarios también van a ganar

menos, van a despedir a más gente y va a ser un efecto negativo. Estas medidas

de austeridad sirven a Alemania para asegurarse que sus bancos financieros

cobran.

Pregunta - ¿Cuáles serían los pasos efectivos para seguir para una reforma de ley

electoral, porque también tenemos una crisis política?

Respuesta - Tendrían que llegar a un consenso en el Congreso de los diputados y

aprobar una nueva ley, pero no creo que vaya pasar, porque si no ha pasado hasta

ahora… no creo que ninguna sea perfecta pero por ejemplo en Escocia si te llevas

el 51% de los votos te llevas el 51% de los escaños, si quieres sacar mayoría

absoluta, en cambio en España con el 28% de los votos se puede gobernar con

mayoría absoluta, lo que me parece injusto para la ciudadanía.

Pregunta - ¿Una ley de transparencia sería un solución para luchar contra la corrupción

política y económica?

Respuesta - Pues la corrupción ha sido generalizada durante toda la historia en

España no sólo en la historia de la democracia sino antes también España siempre

ha sido una clase política corrupta. Una ley de transparencia debería permitir que el

ciudadano supiera que se hace con cada céntimo del dinero que paga en

impuestos, eso no creo que vaya pasar en España. Va a seguir habiendo

corrupción y va a seguir habiendo de todo porque los políticos no les interesa

terminar con la corrupción

Pregunta - ¿Cuál sería el sistema impositivo ideal para una futura reforma fiscal en

España?

Respuesta - ¡Mira! yo cuando estudiaba empresariales en Santiago de

Compostela me enseñaron que un sistema fiscal tiene que ser progresivo, tienen

que pagar más los que más tienen, pero en España el sistema fiscal es regresivo,

los que más tienen son los que menos pagan, las empresas del IBEX 35 están

pagando entre el 1 y el 8% del impuesto y el resto va al extranjero. En la crisis del

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29, una de las cosas que ayudó a salir a los Estados Unidos de la crisis fue que los

ricos y las grandes empresas pagaban mas de un 60% de sus ganancias en

impuestos.

Pregunta - ¿Subir los salarios mínimos? España tiene casi los salarios interprofesionales

más bajos de Europa (728 €) Y las pensiones también, ¿Sería sostenible poder subirlas

con la inestabilidad que tenemos?

Respuesta – Sí los ricos pagaran mas impuestos habría dinero en España para

sostener el sistema de pensiones español, entonces sí se acabará con el fraude

fiscal y los ricos empezarán a pagar el impuesto pues habría dinero para subir los

salarios.

Pregunta - El Banco Central Europeo, Alemania, el Fondo Monetario Internacional, nos

dice que los salarios son demasiado altos en España porque no es un país productivo

¿Como de podría plantear la productividad de un país sin tener que bajar los salarios?

Otros métodos tiene que haber…

Respuesta - En España cuando dicen que no eres productivo ¡joder! pues

entonces vamos a tener que empezar a trabajar como los de Bangladesh. Lo que

quieren hacer es un mercado de mano de obra barata porque la productividad, la

competitividad se consigue no sólo bajando salarios se consigue mejorando el

producto, si tienes unos productos y unos son más caros que otros pues puedes

cobrar el tuyo más caro que el del lado porque el tuyo es mejor, pero en España

no, en España tienes que ponerlo más barato y la forma de ponerlo más barato es

bajar los salarios. Bueno pues en España las tiendas abren a las 10 de la mañana

o a las 11 hasta la 13:30 que cierran para irse a comer y después vuelven a abrir a

las 16:30 o a las 17 hasta las 20. En otros países no, abren a las nueve y cierran a

las cinco o siete, eso hace que sean mas productivos, además las empresas

extranjeras invierten mas dinero y tiempo en preparar a sus empleados, y eso hace

que los empleados sean mas productivos

Pregunta - Como podemos ser más competitivos se quejan de que no somos un país

competitivo ¿qué deberíamos mejorar? ¿Qué pilares son básicos para mejorar nuestra

competitividad?

Respuesta - En España se entiende competitividad cómo vender más barato que

el de al lado a base de recortar salarios, no se entiende que un producto pueda

competir en base a su calidad para que mejore la calidad necesitas investigación y

desarrollo, pues España eso… en eso no se invierte, en España se bajan los

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salarios sistemáticamente. Finlandia, ¿qué es lo que tiene? ¿Porque Finlandia es

un país relativamente exitoso internacional económicamente y España no? ¿qué

tienen ellos? ellos lo que tienen es que dedican mucho dinero a la educación de

sus ciudadanos, y su gobierno invierte mas en I+D cosa que no hace España.

Pregunta - Adam Smith decía que el capital humano es esencial para crear la riqueza de

una nación, en España hay 28.4% de abandono escolar en lo que es la ESO, casi el más

alto de Europa. ¿Cómo cree usted que podemos mejorar esta situación ¿La nueva ley

impuesta por el PP puede mejorarla? ¿O cree usted que no va a mejorar estas

estadísticas tan negativas?

Repuesta - Yo te puedo hablar de las universidades españolas de los años 90 que

yo hice…,en las Universidades españolas ibas a la clase si querías ir, a la clase

que era estilo anfiteatro y éramos pues 200, 300 podemos ser allí metidos en el

aula, se deberían minimizar los grupos como en Inglaterra en seminarios de 12

personas para así obtener un trato personalizado. En España no hay trato personal

por parte del profesor y después no hay interés de hacer a la gente que salga con

una crítica y una buena educación. Con la nueva subida de las tasas universitarias

y la reducción de becas van a estudiar los ricos solo.

Pregunta - La cuestionable eficiencia de la actual reforma laboral impuesta por el actual

gobierno, España tenia cinco millones de parados antes de la introducción de la reforma

labora y actualmente supera los seis millones, ¿Está siendo un fracaso?, ¿Cómo se podría

mejorar esa reforma laboral para que creara empleo?

Repuesta - No, bueno, la reforma laboral, esto es lo que siempre ha querido hacer

la derecha española, lo que pasa es nunca han tenido la oportunidad de hacerlo

ahora como hay una crisis pues tiene la oportunidad de hacerlo, pero vamos, esto

lo que quieren es cambiar la estructura, que la gente trabaje más por menos dinero

y con menos derechos, esto es lo que siempre ha querido la derecha en España,

pero esto ya se sabía que esto no iba a crear empleo. Si se le facilita el despido a

las empresas y, abaratas el empleo pues lo que vas a conseguir, pues tampoco

hace falta ser Einstein para darte cuenta que si lo pones más barato pues van a

despedir a más gente, es que 2 + 2 son cuatro, eso lo sabía todo el mundo. Lo que

pasa, en teoría que no contratan porque el despido luego es muy caro y no quieren

hacer a la gente fija, por una parte si tiene un poquito de teoría buena, pero esta

teoría no pasa en España porque los empresarios españoles no son tan de mirar

por sus empleados.

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Pregunta - En teoría las empresas privadas resultan ser mas eficientes y efectivas dado el

entorno donde se desarrollan que las empresas publicas. ¿Cuál seria el sentido de

nacionalizar los sectores estratégicos?

Respuesta - Como principio ideológico yo pienso que los recursos naturales de un

país pertenecen a los habitantes de ese país entonces los recursos naturales, los

ríos no tienen dueño pertenecen a todos los españoles, las empresas privadas

hacen negocio de esos recursos y te lo cobran encima a precios mas caros, los

recursos naturales de una nación tienen que estar en las manos del gobierno de

esa nación, los recursos que son de todos los ciudadanos, un bien público no

puede servir para ganancia económica personal de unos pocos.

Pregunta - ¿La banca también? ¿debería tener una banca pública?

Respuesta - Debería haber una banca pública además de bancas privadas , pero

tiene que haber un banco público se dedique a dar crédito y crear las condiciones

para que en España pueda haber inversión en industria, las pymes no tienen

acceso a créditos con una banca pública que no está motivada únicamente por el

criterio del beneficio económico, una banca publica debería está motivada con la

construcción del país, con el desarrollo económico del país desde el beneficio

empresarial pues una banca así ayudaría a la recuperación económica.

¡Muchísimas gracias de verdad!

Espero que te haya servido de ayuda

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Entrevista 6: Grupo Focal

Pregunta - ¿Cuáles son los detonantes de la crisis económica española?

Respuestas:

- En España factores de crecimiento en o los sectores claves han sido siempre el

turismo y la Construcción, y en la construcción se formo una burbuja insostenible

que lógicamente tenía que explotar y el Turismo está muy afectado por otros

sectores y además se mueve por ciclos, de manera que en cuanto explotó una

crisis internacional, estaba lógico que un país como España con esos dos motores

de crecimiento económico era uno de los países que más iba a sufrir dicha crisis y

con ello arrastra al resto de sectores.

- Empieza todo por algo que comienza en EEUU, con las hipotecas NINJA, y que en

un mundo tan globalizado como en el que nos encontramos que todo el mundo

adquiere deuda de otras partes, lógicamente nos ha afectado a todos.

- Si encima sumamos que el motor económico que es actualmente un país como

EEUU tiene una crisis económica importante, lógicamente en España esas

consecuencias se iban a multiplicar y han dado lugar a la situación en la que hoy

estamos inmersos.

- A esto hay que sumar la corrupción existente en nuestro país, que una gran

mayoría de los dirigentes busca su interés personal en lugar del interés social y eso

lleva a un nulo sentido de la responsabilidad, lo mismos pasa en los bancos.

Pregunta - ¿Cuál es la correlación entre la crisis económica y crisis política e institucional

española?

Respuestas:

- Yo pienso que ahora nos fijamos más en la crisis política por la mala situación que

tenemos en el ámbito económico. Es decir, antes había la misma cantidad de

chorizos, sino más pero como las cosas iban bien y la población vivía en su

inmensa mayoría años de bonanza nos daba igual dichos robos y dicha corrupción,

ya que efectivamente vivíamos por encima de nuestras posibilidades.

- Los bancos han consentido esos préstamos injustificados, y el gasto de dinero que

no se tiene, especulando sobre lo que se iba a ganar en 40 años, de manera que

ahora mismo no hay dinero y el que tiene se lo guarda por la situación de temor

generalizado en nuestra sociedad.

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Pregunta - ¿Es legítima y sostenible la deuda española respecto a sus acreedores, o bien

se debería renegociar o dejar transitoriamente de pagar?

Respuestas:

- Se deberían negociar dicha deuda, al menos los intereses que pagamos por la

misma… Eso es un poco el sistema del capitalismo, si en Europa quieren que

funcione ciertos países en la parte de arriba, tienen que mandar a otros países

abajo, de manera que es el papel que nos ha tocado dentro de esta unión.

- Alemania esta tan interesada en cobrar esa deuda, porque ellos son los principales

acreedores y está en su máxima riqueza de los préstamos que han ofrecido y los

intereses que generan.

- Otra causa de la crisis es que tengamos una misma moneda pero no una política

única, sino con políticas muy distintas.

Pregunta - ¿Es viable la salida de España del euro?

Respuesta:

- Sería un batacazo social y un desorden para la ciudadanía nuevamente. Creo que

la principal causa es que en nuestro país no se fabrica nada, es todo productos

importados y en realidad la industria es una de las principales fuentes de riqueza

en un país. Además los sectores fuertes que tenemos como el turismo no están

siendo aprovechados de una manera responsable y eficiente. Además la

mentalidad generalizada en España es de desorden, y de invertir fuera en lugar de

invertir en nosotros y fomentar nuestros sectores.

Pregunta - ¿Y un doble euro?

Respuesta:

- Podríamos hacer un euro con un precio, o un euro que nosotros podamos

desvaluar la moneda, y sacar más dinero. Pero socialmente ya se impondría más

la idea de la Europa Rica y la Europa Pobre, que es lo que esta sucediendo pero

no está escrito. Es cierto que con la peseta llamábamos más la atención de turista

y era un reclamo para los países del alrededor, ahora todo esos visitantes se van a

países que le ofrecen monedas más devaluadas que la suya (Turquía...). Tenemos

una moneda de país rico, pero en un país pobre, aunque cuando entramos en la

“Zona Euro” cumplíamos varios requisitos muy difíciles de cumplir (inflación,

deuda…), pero como el país fue en buen momento pudimos entrar, ahora mismo

no tenemos nada.

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Pregunta - ¿Sobre las políticas de austeridad impuestas por Europa, son medidas

acertadas o por el contrario atentan contra el estado bienestar español?

Respuestas:

- Intentamos seguir el ejemplo del estado financiero Estadounidense, consumir y

consumir. En cambio lo que hacen en España es recortar aún más los sueldos y

las pensiones, es decir una política de austeridad lo que producen es que las

pymes que es el motor principal en nuestro país, cierran que al final es lo que

genera movimiento, beneficios y puestos de trabajo.

- Estas políticas se hacen para contentar a los acreedores Europeos como

Alemania, ellos tienen grandes empresas y los recortes no afectarían igual que

como está sucediendo en nuestro país. Deberíamos cambiar la política fiscal, con

tanto impuesto para los trabajadores independientes o pequeñas empresas que

son al fin y al cabo lo más perjudicados con estas medidas que se están tomando.

Pregunta - ¿Cuáles serian los pasos efectivos a seguir para una reforma de la ley

electoral? ¿Cuál sería el sistema electoral ‘perfecto’ o posible frente al bipartidismo actual?

Respuestas:

- En nuestro país existe el bipartidismo, y unos pierden a favor de los otros. En

España con sólo un 22% de los votos obtenemos mayoría absoluta. El problema

que ellos no cambian estas leyes porque se van turnando las candidaturas, de

manera que les perjudicaría a ellos mismos.

- También es cierto que si la ciudadanía no lucha , se manifiesta y reivindica no

conseguiremos nunca cambiar las cosas, y luchar y que se reconozcan los

derechos de la población.

Pregunta - ¿Qué medidas se debería incluir en una ley de transparencia que luche contra

la corrupción política y económica?

Respuestas:

- Están haciendo una cortina de humo, puesto que ellos son los que determinan lo

que se publica, lo que es transparente o lo que no. Para que fuera correcto lo

lógico sería que hubiese una auditoría externa y no internas como se producen

escondiendo los partidos la parte que quieren.

- Otro problema es que en la práctica el poder judicial no está separado del poder

legislativo, de manera que todos estos políticos que no cumplen con su cargo y que

se dedican a pasar su legislatura intentando enriquecerse, no sufren un proceso

judicial como cualquier otro individuo, ya que hay muchos intereses detrás y las

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fuerzas se unen para conseguir librar a estos políticos que encubren las

irregularidades que se suceden con fondos públicos.

Pregunta - ¿Cuál sería el sistema impositivo ideal de una futura reforma fiscal en España?

Respuestas:

- El problema que en España no se cumple, supuestamente es un proceso

impositivo progresivo, ya que las grandes empresas tienen las herramientas para

poder eludir esas cargas fiscales, como los paraísos fiscales que tienen las

grandes empresas del IBEX 35, en cambio las pequeñas que pueden hacer…

¿Guardar el dinero debajo del colchón?

- La gente que tiene el poder para cambiar ese sistema tiene intereses personales,

de manera que no le interesa controlar esa evasión fiscal, y sigue perdiendo la

ciudadanía y las pequeñas empresas que son las que no tienen tantos medios a su

disposición para combatir ese alto sistema impositivo.

Pregunta - ¿Resultaría viable subir el salario mínimo interprofesional y las pensiones ante

la situación de inestabilidad económica actual?

Respuestas:

- Ya sabemos que en este país no nos vamos a poder cobrar jubilación…

- No sería viable poder subir las pensiones, ya que con el nivel de paro tan alto que

hay no da para cubrir esas pensiones.

- Sería interesante también subir los salarios, y reducir el número de diputados y

políticos por habitantes, que son completamente innecesarios y aumentar el

número de inspectores de hacienda para evitar tanta evasión y fomentar un

sentimiento de responsabilidad para evitar este fraude tan generalizado que existe

actualmente.

Pregunta - El salario mínimo interprofesional ha decrecido en los últimos años con la

excusa de no ser lo suficientemente productivo con respecto a Europa. ¿Cómo España

podría ser más productiva sin el perjuicio de rebajar los salarios de los trabajadores

españoles?

Respuestas:

- No sé de dónde sacan que somos una ciudadanía improductiva. Yo no he visto a

ningún inglés trabajar con la misma eficiencia que un español. Es una excusa para

justificar la reducción de salarios, como podría haber valido cualquier otra excusa.

- En economía la productividad es el producto que sacas por unidad de tiempo. La

única manera de mejorar y fomentar la productividad es a través de la motivación

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de los empleados, inversión en investigación y mejora de medios. La formación que

se ejerce en el extranjero a los empleados es fundamental, en las empresas

españolas no se prioriza al personal ni en su inversión para la mejora de su

productividad, y por lo tanto de su beneficio final.

Pregunta - El capital humano es esencial para crear riqueza en una nación, por lo que

unos de los pilares a mantener y desarrollar es el sistema educativo público. ¿Cuál sería el

marco ideal de la reforma de un sistema educativo deficitario debido al alto fracaso

estudiantil en enseñanzas medias y la inefectividad de las universidades españolas que no

propician la adecuada inserción al mercado laboral?

Respuestas:

- Falta mucha conciencia en España cultural, no se educa a los jóvenes a que

estudien y a que tengan un nivel alto, porque a nuestros políticos y a nuestro

sistema les interesa eso.

- Los niños están en el colegio todo el día metidos por los horarios profesionales de

los padres, de manera que se “les aparca” durante toda la jornada y cuando llegan

a casa no les apetece hacer nada y solamente pasar tiempo con su familia y

buscan la atención de sus padres.

- Además la media de corte para acceder a ser maestro en nuestro país es de las

más bajas que existen (6,5) de manera que no se valora y ni se buscan los mejores

profesionales para un elemento tan importante en una sociedad como son los

maestros y los profesores. Además la carrera ya no busca una especialización de

los profesionales, por los recortes que se están produciendo, todos los maestros

tienen que cubrir cualquier asignatura o cualquier materia, frente a una baja de

menos de 20 días.

- La universidad española además enseña los principios básicos para dominar una

materia, pero no te ayuda a pensar ni a ser un profesional crítico y formado, de

manera que todos los estudiantes salen con grandes conocimientos adquiridos y

poca parte práctica y poco resolutivos a la hora de afrontar un puesto profesional y

las complicaciones que pueden surgir en el mismo.

Pregunta - Debido a la ‘cuestionable’ eficiencia de la actual reforma laboral. ¿Qué otras

medidas viables y sostenibles podrían tener cabida para una reducción del desempleo a

corto y a medio plazo?

Respuestas:

- Sobre todo los autónomos de que hemos hablado algo, fomenta que la gente sea

emprendedora.

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- Por lo menos que haya una política coherente… El despido es necesario para

muchas empresas, pero claro con un poco de apoyo a esas personas que son

despedidas y a las empresas que tienen que despedir a algún empleado para

mantener la solvencia y la existencia de esas pequeñas empresas.

- Esta reforma no ha solucionado nada, porque además tan poco ha mejorado el

empleo, no lo ha fomentado, ha ido a peor, ha sido como una solución para

mejorar, sanear y “maquillar” las cuentas y presupuestos y reducir la deuda, pero

eso en realidad a largo plazo no nos lleva a nada, solo a agravar una crisis

económica que además ya se ha convertido en una crisis social.

Pregunta - Más del 99% de las empresas españolas son pymes, las cuales son el motor

para mantener y generar trabajo. La banca privada utiliza la mayoría de los activos dados

por Comunidad Europea para su propio saneamiento dejando a las empresas desprovistas

del crédito necesario para su desarrollo. ¿Se debería exigir a la banca más solidaridad con

las pymes o se debería crear una banca pública que vele por este propósito?

Respuestas:

- Sí, debería haber una banca que facilitara créditos a pequeñas y medianas

empresas para ayudar a que sigan adelante, y que sigan siendo el motor de la

economía española y fomentar el empleo. En lugar de eso, se estas fomentando el

despido libre pero con muchas trabas aun para esos pequeños negocio, sino lo que

fomentamos es el fraude y no fomentas el empleo. Se están tratando de sanear

cuentas, pero como contrapartida el capital social va a empeorar.