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al.turtlecounseling.com
Power and Passivityin Relationships
Understanding the Dynamics of Emotional Symbiosis Based on Harville Hendrix Presentation
“The Disease of the Disease”9/30/94 ColoradoQuest
By Al TurtleNovember 7, 2008
To run this PowerPoint on your own. Press Spacebar to advance. Also > (left arrow) and < (right arrow) may
work. There are 52 slides with a lot of in-slide animation.
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This is a presentation of my ideas, beliefs, discoveries, and understandings. It is based on my forty years of
studies, experiments, trials, and reflective teaching. My path has led me through college, extended post-
graduate work, and into the therapy room – from both ends. In the past 14 years I have closely observed the
troubles of well over 2400 couples.
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With all that said, this is still just a collection of my opinions. They are my best ideas, but still only mine. I
expect you to disagree. I hope you disagree.
I share my thoughts with you so that you may add something new to your own thinking, beliefs, and
practices. If you find some ideas useful, I encourage you to use it.
If you don’t find them useful, drop them in the wastebasket on the way out.
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Questions I have enjoyed hearing
• Power and Control
• Gender politics
• Exposure of children
• Efficacy of Batterer Treatment Programs
• Perpetrator/Victim discussions
• Prediction and Prevention– “Stop it” one step before it happens
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In the Therapy Room
• “70% of couples are pre-DV”
• ? Value of Couples Therapy in DV
• My experience• 100% of couples I see are Pre-DV• 40% admit to DV in the first session
– 90% of those admit to witnessing DV in families
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Start from New Place
• Decade ago I repeatedly witnessed Marriage Therapists become verbally violent among each other.
• Shift in syntax and use of words
• Marriage violence extends into 2nd & 3rd marriages even if Individual Counseling involved.
• Marriage Therapist divorce rate very high.• Also for police, firemen, those with “degrees of difficulty” (PhDs,
LLDs, MDs, DDs, and especially ex-military
• School violence studies and “bullying”• Secrecy, blindness• Blame and guilt of caretakers/guardians/teachers, etc.
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Bully
A person who wants their way, and if they don’t get it,
they make other people unhappy.
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Emotional Symbiosis
1. A belief that there is a correct way to view or value everything.
2. A limited awareness that all people see everything differently.
3. A tendency to denigrate, demean, put down, kill others when they display their difference. H. Hendrix 1994
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Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W Ask the Master
MASTER
SLAVE
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SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
1) Never know when the “obedient” slave will rebel, revolt, quit, leave. Slaves do not talk.
2) Masters make all the decisions, but know ½ the information on which to base those decisions. They often make poor decisions.
MASTER
SLAVE
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Humiliate, degrade, demote, shame, ridicule, intimidate, beat down, hit, etc.
Threaten: “All people think this..” “Patriots think this…” “Everyone sane knows that….” “All right minded people believe ….”
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Push out Fire, excommunicate, discharge, exile, shun, ostracize, eject, divorce, “send to your room”
Threaten: “My way or the highway”
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Push out Symptom #1
One person is quiet.
Symptom #2
ArguingTwo trying to be Master at the same time, or both avoiding being Slave.
Both using Punishment Systems!
Two Bullies.
To me, arguing
is a hopeful sign.Both want
something better.
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Push out
American Revolution
“Allergic reaction to being slave.”
Consider teenagers
DemocracyOne person – one vote
FRIEND FRIEND
Very stableUnfamiliarWin - WinNatural
Very inefficient Requires Patience
Must be trained.
Boot Camp!
Win
Lose
in the short run. In the long run it is much more efficient, just slow!
Fortunately this is an adult skill everyone can learn.
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Push out
American Revolution
“Allergic reaction to being slave.”
DemocracyOne person – one vote
FRIEND FRIEND
Very stableUnfamiliarWin - WinNatural
Very inefficient Requires Patience
Win
Lose
A skill to be learned, not a fixed trait. An adult skill. Children are born impatient. Must be learned. Humans are designed to learn it.
If you don’t learn it, you will be attracted to Master/Slave.
NO TRUTH Multiple Points of View
Truth is outside the system. Everyone experiences it differently. With one vote each, who has the truth?
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Push out
American Revolution
“Allergic reaction to being slave.”
DemocracyOne person – one vote
FRIEND FRIEND
Very stableUnfamiliar
Very inefficient Requires Patience
NO TRUTH Multiple Points of View
MasterTalkA sentence that implies a single truth exists. Master has that truth. Threatens any who disagree. Purpose is to keep order. POWER.
A sentence that implies a single truth exists, Slave doesn’t have it. Signals conformity, obedience, conflict avoidance. POWERLESSNESS.
Dialogue A sentence that implies more than one view of the truth exists. It makes room for sharing, especially of disagreement. SHARED POWER.
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Push out
American Revolution
“Allergic reaction to being slave.”
DemocracyOne person – one vote
FRIEND FRIEND
Very stableUnfamiliar
Very inefficient Requires Patience
NO TRUTH Multiple Points of View
MasterTalk
Dialogue
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Push out
American Revolution
“Allergic reaction to being slave.”
DemocracyOne person – one vote
FRIEND FRIEND
Very stableUnfamiliar
Very inefficient Requires Patience
NO TRUTH Multiple Points of View
MasterTalk
Dialogue
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Push out
American Revolution
“Allergic reaction to being slave.”
DemocracyOne person – one vote
FRIEND FRIEND
Very stableUnfamiliar
Very inefficientinefficient Requires Patience
NO TRUTH! Multiple Points of View
MasterTalk
Benefits
• Peaceful• Fair• Respectful• Reliable• Trust building• Enduring
Benefits
?
Benefits
?
No responsibility
Victimicity
BlameAll people are responsible, 24/7
For What?
Requires Boundary Skills
Dialogue
All responsibilityControl
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Push out
American Revolution
“Allergic reaction to being slave.”
DemocracyOne person – one vote
FRIEND FRIEND
Very stableUnfamiliar
Very inefficientinefficient Requires Patience
NO TRUTH! Multiple Points of View
MasterTalk
All people are responsible, 24/7
For What?
Must learn Boundary Skills
DialogueSymptoms:
1. One person is quiet,
2. Arguing,
3. Blame, Guilt,
4. Victimicity, innocence
5. MasterTalk
Learn: make it familiar
Good Boundary Skills
Control
No responsibility
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Push out
American Revolution
“Allergic reaction to being slave.”
DemocracyOne person – one vote
FRIEND FRIEND
Very stableUnfamiliar
Very inefficientinefficient Requires Patience
NO TRUTH! Multiple Points of View
MasterTalk
All people are responsible, 24/7
For What?
Dialogue
Control
No responsibility
Good Boundary Skills
Wants Control andNo responsibility
Uses Punishment System w/o Truth System.
PASSIVEMASTER
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Push out
American Revolution
“Allergic reaction to being slave.”
DemocracyOne person – one vote
FRIEND FRIEND
Very stableUnfamiliar
Very inefficientinefficient Requires Patience
NO TRUTH! Multiple Points of View
MasterTalk
All people are responsible, 24/7
For What?
Dialogue
Control
No responsibility
Good Boundary Skills
PASSIVEMASTER
Control & No Responsibility
1. How many kids in your family? Add 2.
2. When all together who was boss/bully/Master?
3. Take away & now who?
Always learn both positions.
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Push out
American Revolution
“Allergic reaction to being slave.”
DemocracyOne person – one vote
FRIEND FRIEND
Very stableUnfamiliar
Very inefficientinefficient Requires Patience
NO TRUTH! Multiple Points of View
MasterTalk
All people are responsible, 24/7
For What?
Dialogue
Control
No responsibility
Good Boundary Skills
PASSIVEMASTER
Control & No Responsibility
Goals
1. Durably stay in Friend/Friend.
2. Recognize Master/Slave behaviors.
3. Dialogically invite people to join you. Gently & firmly insist.
Easiest
Harder
Difficult.Very, very
difficult.
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Push out
American Revolution
“Allergic reaction to being slave.”
DemocracyOne person – one vote
FRIEND FRIEND
Very stableUnfamiliar
Very inefficientinefficient Requires Patience
NO TRUTH! Multiple Points of View
MasterTalk
All people are responsible, 24/7
For What?
Dialogue
Control
No responsibility
Good Boundary Skills
PASSIVEMASTER
Control & No Responsibility
Symptoms:
1. One person is quiet,
2. Arguing,
3. Blame, Guilt,
4. Victimicity, innocence
5. MasterTalk
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MASTER
SLAVE
Familiar
Tone of Efficiency
Truth System
• True• Right• Fact• Real• Important
B&W
Unstable
PunishmentSystem
Push down
Push out
American Revolution
“Allergic reaction to being slave.”Democracy
One person – one vote
FRIEND FRIEND
Very stableUnfamiliar
Very inefficientinefficient Requires Patience
NO TRUTH! Multiple Points of View
MasterTalk
All people are responsible, 24/7For What?
Dialogue
Control
No responsibility
Good Boundary Skills
PASSIVEMASTER
Control & No Responsibility
Symptoms:
1. One person is quiet,
2. Arguing,
3. Blame, Guilt,
4. Victimicity, innocence
5. MasterTalk
Power and Powerlessness in Couples, Part One
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MASTER
SLAVE
FRIEND
PASSIVEMASTERMASTER
FRIEND
LEADER
FOLLOWER
MASTER
SLAVE
FRIEND FRIEND
PASSIVEMASTER
FRIENDFRIEND
PASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Normal
DIALOGICAL RELATIONSHIPSMature, functional relating
Super-normal
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Cautionary Note• Today we will discuss many specific indicators and interactions of Power
and Powerlessness. This may give you significantly increased insight into your own behavior habits and into those of others.
• Please remember– People we see in our offices are what I call “Normal,” with a desire to do much
better. This gives us a contract to work with/for them. Be helpful.
– Most people around us (friends, family, associates, etc) I usually see as “Normal.” Though they may display many of the indicators we talk of today, I don’t believe we have a contract to work with them. Consider remaining quiet.
– People who are moving toward, close to, or in “Conscious Marriage,” will display more and more of the indicators of being Dialogical. Enjoy being with them.
• I have found this material to be very empowering. I have also found it to trigger explosive reactions in others.
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MASTER
FRIEND
LEADER
FOLLOWER
FRIEND
PASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPS DIALOGICAL RELATIONSHIPSMature, functional relating
Super-normal
Immature, dysfunctional relating
Normal
IntegratingDis-Integrating
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MASTER
FRIEND
LEADER
FOLLOWER
FRIEND
PASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPS DIALOGICAL RELATIONSHIPSMature, functional relating
Super-normal
Immature, dysfunctional relating
Normal
Level1-up
Level1-down
PeerLevel
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MASTER
FRIEND
LEADER
FOLLOWER
FRIEND
PASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPS DIALOGICAL RELATIONSHIPSMature, functional relating
Super-normal
Immature, dysfunctional relating
Normal
Temporary
Positions
•Temporary organization related to a specific situation.•“A hierarchy is a compromise between a group’s need to support diversity, and its need to make decisions.”•Examples: business, military, cars, boats, airplanes
Reasons
1. Functional, skilled leaders
2. Emergency
3. Property
consensual
consensual
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MASTER
FRIEND
LEADER
FOLLOWER
FRIEND
PASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPS DIALOGICAL RELATIONSHIPSMature, functional relating
Super-normal
Immature, dysfunctional relating
Normal
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MASTER
FRIEND
LEADER
FOLLOWER
FRIEND
PASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPS DIALOGICAL RELATIONSHIPSMature, functional relatingImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
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MASTER
PASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
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MASTERPASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
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MASTEREntitlement
Wants what he/she wants. Uses threat/temper to get it.
Very poor empathy skills.
PASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
Do this! Think this!Or else!
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MASTEREntitlement
Wants what he/she/wants. Uses threat to get it.
Very poor empathy skills.
PASSIVEMASTER
SLAVEAn obedient servant / caretaker
Conflict avoidantIntuits others “getting upset.”Very poor self-nurturing skills.
Very dependent on others.
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
Do this! Think this!Or else.
What should I do?What should I think?
I’ll be good!
What do you need?Are you upset?How can I help?
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MASTEREntitlement
Wants what he/she wants. Uses threat to get it.
Very poor empathy skills.
PASSIVE MASTEREntitlement
Wants what he/she wantsDisplays “distress” to get it
Dependent on others
SLAVEA caretaker / obedient servant
Intuits other people getting upset.Conflict avoidant
Very poor self-nurturing skills.Very dependent on others
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
Do this! Think this!Or else.
What should I do?What should I think?
I’ll be good!
What do you need?Are you upset?How can I help?
I need this….This upsets me ….(passive waiting)
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MASTERPASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
MasterTalk•“You are wrong…”•“This is a fact…”•“The truth is…”•“What we are really talking about is…”•“That is not what we are talking about…”•“I know what you are thinking…”•“What is going on is…”•“You are cruel…”•“We all know…”
Control what is said•“Don’t say that…”•“You’d better learn to control what you are saying…”•“I don’t think I should tell you…”•“I don’t want to say…”•“If you don’t know how to say it nicely, say nothing…”•“Hold your tongue, young man!”•“Children are to be seen and not heard.”
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MASTERPASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
Take care of me“I need this.” followed by waiting.“I have this problem.” followed by waiting. “That hurt me.” followed by waiting. “You’re mean.” followed by waiting. “That is a hurtful joke.” followed by waiting. “I can’t stand it.” followed by waiting.“You are giving me a headache.” followed by waiting. “That scares me.” followed by waiting.
Control what is said•“Don’t say that…”•“I can’t listen to that.”•“You’d better learn to control what you are saying…”•“I don’t want to hear any more.”•“If you don’t know how to say it nicely, say nothing…”
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MASTERPASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the MastersAvoiding Responsibility
“I don’t know.”“I am lost.”“I am helpless.”“Why do I do that?”“I don’t know what to do.”“I have nothing to say.” Silence
Fill me. I am empty.“What is the right way to do that?”“What should I do?”“Tell me what to do.”“What is correct?”“Did I really do that?”“Take care of me?”“Am I right?”“What are we going to do?”“Do I make any sense?”“You tell me!”
I am responsible for you“I don’t want to upset her.”“I can’t say that. It would hurt him.”“What did I do wrong?”“If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything.”“I want everyone to like me.”“I hate conflict.”“Please, don’t cry.”“Don’t say that!”“I won’t do it again. I promise!”“I’m sorry, I hurt you.”The repeated use of “OK” at the end saying something. Almost all instances of political correctness are examples of a Slave to Passive-Master communication.
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MASTERPASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
Do this! Think this!Or else.
What should I do?What should I think?
I’ll be good!
What do you need?Are you upset?How can I help?
I need this….This upsets me ….(passive waiting)
What is in it for the slave?
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MASTERPASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
Do this! Think this!Or else.
What should I do?What should I think?
I’ll be good!
What do you need?Are you upset?How can I help?
I need this….This upsets me ….(passive waiting)
What is in it for the slave?
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POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
SLAVE
What should I do?What should I think?
I’ll be good!
What do you need?Are you upset?How can I help?
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POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
SLAVE
What should I do?What should I think?
I’ll be good!
What do you need?Are you upset?How can I help?
Created in early childhood
• Submitting, normally a temporary survival tactic, in this situation has morphed into a semi-permanent posture. • “Stockholm-syndrome” and “Learned helplessness”• “I will survive if I conform, submit, don’t upset anyone, make their lives better, and keep them happy.”• Codependency
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POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
SLAVE
What should I do?What should I think?
I’ll be good!
What do you need?Are you upset?How can I help?
Created in early childhood
• Submitting, normally a temporary survival tactic, in this situation has morphed into a semi-permanent posture. •Reptilian Brain
Clinger Version: seeks connection, with more or less panic, and when attachment is “achieved” begins to submit in order to be comfortable, survive.
Avoider form: is passive about connection. When alone, this person functions peacefully with no panic. When another appears, they immediately begin to submit as a way to be comfortable, survive.
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MASTEREntitlement
Wants what he/she wants. Uses threat to get it.
Very poor empathy skills.
PASSIVE MASTEREntitlement
Wants what he/she wantsDisplays “distress” to get it
Dependent on others
SLAVEA caretaker / obedient servant
Intuits other people getting upset.Conflict avoidant
Very poor self-nurturing skills.Very dependent on others
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
Do this! Think this!Or else.
What should I do?What should I think?
I’ll be good!
What do you need?Are you upset?How can I help?
I need this….This upsets me ….(passive waiting)
Early Childhood
“Threat / temper works. It gets me
what I want.”
Lesson is taught by parents who are
Slaves.
Early Childhood“People always take care of my needs. I have only to ask or
complain.”
These have made it into adulthood w/o
learning to earn what they get.
Early childhood“I will survive if I conform, submit,
don’t upset anyone, make their lives better, and keep
them happy.”
“Passive SlavesMake Bullies.”
“Passive SlavesMake Passive Masters.”
Masters and Passive Masters
make Slaves
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MASTEREntitlement
Wants what he/she ants. Uses threat to get it.
Very poor empathy skills.
PASSIVE MASTEREntitlement
Wants what he/she wantsDisplays “distress” to get it
Dependent on others
SLAVEA caretaker / obedient servant
Intuits other people getting upset.Conflict avoidant
Very poor self-nurturing skills.Very dependent on others
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
Do this! Think this!Or else.
What should I do?What should I think?
I’ll be good!
What do you need?Are you upset?How can I help?
I need this….This upsets me ….(passive waiting)
“Adult Passive Slaves
Encourage Adult Bullies.”
“Adult Passive Slaves
EncourageAdult
Passive Masters.”
Adult Masters
and Passive Masters Encourage Slaves
It takes teamwork.“Dysfunctional
Dialogue”
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MASTEREntitlement
Wants what he/she/wants. Uses threat to get it.
Very poor empathy skills.
PASSIVE MASTEREntitlement
Wants what he/she wantsDisplays “distress” to get it
Dependent on others
SLAVEA caretaker / obedient servant
Intuits other people getting upset.Conflict avoidant
Very poor self-nurturing skills.Very dependent on others
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
Do this! Think this!Or else.
What should I do?What should I think?
I’ll be good!
What do you need?Are you upset?How can I help?
I need this….This upsets me ….(passive waiting)
Break up the blindness. Develop their empathy skills.
End the temper and threats. Never permit
bullying. (Use Boundary Skills and
TimeOuts.)
•Be not a caretaker, yourself. •Turn the pause into an invitation
for their solution. •They must learn to earn what
they get. •Dialogue about their choices, but leave the decision up to
them.
Cut them off from “authorities” and “needy” people.
Guide them to learning how they act, how they got that way, sharing their story with
others.Guide them into awareness of
self and self-responsibility.
Easiest
A Bit Harder
Most rewarding. “Like giving birth to a self.”
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MASTEREntitlement
Wants what he/she wants. Uses threat to get it.
Very poor empathy skills.
PASSIVE MASTEREntitlement
Wants what he/she wantsDisplays “distress” to get it
Dependent on others
SLAVEA caretaker / obedient servant
Intuits other people getting upset.Conflict avoidant
Very poor self-nurturing skills.Very dependent on others
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
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MASTER
PASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPSImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
al.turtlecounseling.com
MASTER
FRIEND
LEADER
FOLLOWER
FRIEND
PASSIVEMASTER
SLAVE
POWER RELATIONSHIPS DIALOGICAL RELATIONSHIPSMature, functional relatingImmature, dysfunctional relating
Valley of the Masters
Let’s keep moving to here.
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References• My Website:
http://al.turtlecounseling.com– Then search my topics on skills of
Autonomy.
• Or Google or MSN Search Phrases:– Al turtle master/slave
– Al turtle power passivity
– Al turtle power foundations
– Al turtle boundaries
– Al turtle who is to blame
– Al turtle mastertalk
• Download and use my material, no charges.