A Conversation With Pham Binh Minh

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A Conversation with Pham Binh Minh

Speaker:Pham Binh Minh, Foreign Minister, Socialist Republic

of Vietnam

Presider:Bob Woodruff, CFR Fellow

September 27, 2011, New York

Council on Foreign Relations

Video Audio

BOB WOODRUFF: Good afternoon, everybody. Thank you

very much for the free lunch, since it's always good. I'm Bob

Woodruff.

As you know, who's going to be speaking today is Pham Binh

Minh, the foreign minister of the Socialist Republic of

Vietnam. And he will have a chance to give a statement up

here, probably for about 10 minutes or so, followed by somequestioning that we will do together up here and then followed

by any questions that you can make as well.

I just have a couple notes before we start, is that the -- if you

could, please, you know, turn off your cellphones. Of course,

use them in vibration, that's fine. Also, remember: This is

going to be on the record. You can see there's cameras back

there. So just be very careful about what you say.

And I just want to introduce Foreign Minister Mr. Minh.

MINISTER PHAM BINH MINH: Dr. Richard Haass, ladies

and gentlemen, I would like to thank the Council on Foreign
http://www.cfr.org/vietnam/conversation-pham-binh-minh-video/p26049http://www.cfr.org/vietnam/conversation-pham-binh-minh-audio/p26045http://www.cfr.org/vietnam/conversation-pham-binh-minh-audio/p26045http://www.cfr.org/vietnam/conversation-pham-binh-minh-audio/p26045http://www.cfr.org/vietnam/conversation-pham-binh-minh-audio/p26045http://www.cfr.org/vietnam/conversation-pham-binh-minh-video/p26049


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Relations for inviting me to this discussion. And thank you all

for coming.

We view the Council on Foreign Relations as an important

partner and appreciate your interest in the development ofVietnam-U.S. relations. We recall the visit by the council in

1993 when our two countries (were still ?) preparing for the

normalizations of relations between Vietnam and the United

States. We had the normalizations in 1995.

And last year, we were delighted to receive Dr. Richard Haass

and the council delegation in Vietnam. And I believe this visithas helped members of the council understand better our country

and our people and -- (inaudible) -- in the areas of the --

(inaudible) -- reform.

And today I'm very honored to have this opportunity to share

with you some of our thoughts on the foreign policies of

Vietnam. We have been pursuing a consistent foreign policy of

independence, self-reliance, cooperation, development,multilateralization and diversification of relations, active and

proactive international integration. And we have a slogan that

we are determined to be reliable, be a friend, a reliable partner

and a responsible member of the international community.

The active and proactive international integration orientation is a

new element in our foreign policy which was adopted at the 11th

national -- the Party Congress early this year. This was turningpoint in the -- in the -- in our foreign policy, because before we

focus on early -- on economic integration, but now we also

integration in all areas such as not only economic but trade


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politics, diplomacy, security, defense, (culture and social effects

?).

Vietnam's successful nonpermanent membership at the United

Nations Security Council during the term 2008 and 2009, ourchairmanship of ASEAN in 2010, cooperation with countries

and the United Nations in many fields such as nuclear security

and safety, climate change; realizing the Millennium

Development Goals, et cetera; active preparation to take part in

peacekeeping operation and active participation in the Trans-

Pacific Partnership negotiations are some instances of our

foreign policy.

We aim to further deepen our foreign relations, upgrade

relations with leading partners, of which establishment of

strategic partnership with major powers and important global

economic centers is among our priorities. We have established

strategic partnership with Russia, China, India, Japan, South

Korea, the United Kingdom and Spain. I hope in the near future

Vietnam will have strategic partnership with other majorpowers, including the United States. At the same time we look -

- we work to strengthen our relationship with traditional friends

and partners as far as our participation in international

organizations, especially the United Nations.

In terms of economic, at present the Vietnamese government

identifies the priority task of stabilizing the macroeconomy,

creating conditions for the economy to continue to develop fast

and sustainably. Together with many other comprehensive

efforts, the effort to reduce and streamline public expenditure

has helped to stabilize the macroeconomy, address challenges

posed by the impacts of the global economic/financial crisis and


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create the necessary foundation for the realization of our 2011-

2015 social/economic development plan and the 2011-2020 --

what we call the socio-economic strategy, which set the goal by

2020 Vietnam will become a modern-oriented industrialcountry.

To achieve this target, during this term our government is

focusing on three main tasks: one, simple market-economy

institutions with emphasis given to creating a level playing field

and administrative reform; two, human resources development,

particularly high-quality human resource development; three,

construction of integrated infrastructure system. At the sametime we view international economic cooperation as an

important factor for Vietnam's economic development strategy,

and this will be the priority for Vietnam's foreign relations in the

coming years.

We are working with ASEAN countries to step into a new

cooperation era pursuant the ASEAN charter, striving to build

an ASEAN community by 2015 based on three main pillars --politics, security, economic and social -- (inaudible) -- and to

promote ASEAN centrality in an evolving regional

architecture. We hope to further promote partnership between

ASEAN and major powers through increased dialogue,

cooperation, confidence-building and preventive diplomacy with

a view to developing lasting mechanism and structure to ensure

peace, stability and sustainable development in the Asia-Pacificregion. We welcome the policy of increasing cooperations with

the countries in the region by all countries, including the United

States.


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As for peace and security, it is always our top priority. We look

to the United Nations to continue its concerted and coherent

efforts to promote peaceful settlement of civil wars and local

conflicts in several regions of the world, especially those inNorth Africa and in Middle East, while preventing others from

erupting.

It is a long-term necessity that we cultivate the culture of peace,

dialogue and promote peaceful settlement of dispute. Vietnam

supports efforts to end violence and strengthen national

reconstruction and reconciliation in Afghanistan, in Iraq.

As regards the hot issue now at the General Assembly -- that is,

the applications of Palestine to be a full member of United

Nations -- we can say that we recognized the state of Palestine in

1988 and have always supported the just struggle of the

Palestinian people for their inalienable rights, including the right

to establish an independent and sovereign state that co-exists

peacefully with Israel, which their border lies, set up before June

1967. That's why we think we will support the applications ofPalestine for full membership at United Nations, but (seems ?) at

the present the discussion's in the arms of the Security Council

but not yet brought to the table of the General Assembly.

It is Vietnam's consistent policy to support and promote general

and complete disarmament, with top priority given to the three

pillars of the nuclear issue -- namely, nuclear disarmament,

nuclear nonproliferation and peaceful use of nuclear energy and

technology. We have been party to all major international

instruments for the disarmament of weapons of mass

destruction, including CTBT, NPT, BWC and CWC. We also

have been fulfilling our obligations under relevant United


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Nations mechanisms, especially those set up by the U.N.

Security Council.

We strongly support United Nations in translating the outcome

of the 2010 Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty Review Conferenceand the newly concluded High-level Meeting on Nuclear Safety

and Security into concrete results, revitalizing the work of the

conference on disarmament and taking forward multilateral

disarmament negotiations. And in our region, in our Southeast

Asia, we, together with ASEAN fellow country, working to

promote -- are working to promote the treaty on Southeast Asian

-- Southeast Asian nuclear weapon-free zone, and we wish thatthe -- all states, especially nuclear-weapon states, to sign and

ratify the protocol annexed to the treaty.

In implementation of our foreign policy, we view the U.S. as a

leading partner of strategic significance. When President Bill

Clinton and Prime Minister of Vietnam Vo Van Kiet decided to

normalize our relations 16 years ago, it is hard to imagine our

relations would one day achieve this level ofdevelopment. Dialogue and consultation mechanisms have now

been in place, thereby creating a strong framework for the

continued growth in bilateral relations in different areas, from

political-diplomatic relations to economic, trade, security,

national defense, cancer, education, science an technology,

human assistance, et cetera.

Economic cooperation is currently seen as the highlight in our

bilateral relations, with more than 18 billion (dollars) in trade

turnover. I remember in 1995 the trade turnover was about a

few hundred million U.S. dollars and now it's 180 times of that

amount in 1995. More and more American companies,


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including leading corporations, are investing and expanding

their market in Vietnam. There exists enormous potential for

our economic cooperation since both sides together with other

partners are discussing the Trans-Pacific Partnership, one of thelargest and freest trade agreements in the Asia-Pacific region.

Other areas of cooperation have also achieved very impressive

progress, particularly in people-to-people exchange. The United

States currently destination of choice for well over 13,000

students is why Vietnam is becoming one of the destinations of

choice for American tourists.

The two sides also have good cooperation in according -- in

accounting for personnel missing in action, and in humanitarian

activities such as HIV/AIDS, land mine clearance, solving the

Agent Orange dioxin.

Additionally, security defense cooperation has meant positive

progress. The second dialogue on defense policy recently held

in Washington, D.C., was the signing for the first time thememorandum of understanding on defense cooperation was the

example of the cooperation between Vietnam and United States.

Building on the positive momentum of relations, Vietnam and

United States are engaging in discussions about the upgrading of

relations towards the strategic partnership. In July 2010, on her

visit to Vietnam on the occasion of celebrating the 15th

anniversary for normalizations of relations, Secretary of StateHillary Clinton has brought with her President Obama's message

(willing ?) to elevate our relations to a higher level toward a

strategic partnership. I believe that now more than ever is the


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right time for us to bring our relationship into the next phase of

cooperation.

Yesterday I had a very productive meeting with Secretary

Clinton on this subject. It is her strong belief that this furtherenhancement of our relationship will help us realize a positive,

(firmly ?) constructed, multi-sided cooperative -- mutual respect

and mutually beneficial relationship of peace, stability and

development as stated in a joint declaration by our leaders. We

are also of the view that better U.S.-Vietnam partnership not

only means promoting similarity in mutual interests, but also

taking into account each other's interests based on a spirit ofunderstanding and respect for independence and sovereignty.

As for the bigger picture, I am confident that the Vietnam-U.S.

partnership will continue to contribute positively to common

efforts to promote peace, stability and development in the region

(over the world ?). Our two countries are presented with major

opportunities to further enhance and deepen our bilateral and

multilateral cooperation. I hope that the Council on ForeignRelations and other stakeholders of Vietnam-United States

relations be actively -- take part in this process for the long-term

benefits of our two countries and our two people. So I would

like to end my remarks here, and thank you very much for your

attention. Thank you. (Applause.)

WOODRUFF: Well, thank you very much. Very nice. I know

that I'm just going to ask some questions probably for the next

15 minutes or so and then open up any questions to you. I'd like

to say, though, for the first time -- and I'll sort of personally with

us -- I think you and I are about the same age. You're 52 years

old; I'm 50 years old. But during that time, when the Vietnam


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War existed, you and I were young teenagers. Of course, I was

in Detroit, and you were in Hanoi.

What did -- what did you see and what did you think about the

United States at that time? We know that it's changedsignificantly since then. But I just -- what did -- what did you

witness, and what did you go through?

MINH: Yes, as you mentioned, at that time during the war --

and we was very young. I can say that I was a very small child

at that time. I remember during the bombing of Hanoi because I

lived in Hanoi. And during the bombing I had to evacuate to thecountryside. And from the countryside, every night I look at the

sky, seeing, like, planes dropping bombs. Of course, the hatred

was -- (inaudible). And then in 1975 I was old enough, went to

school -- went to the School of Foreign Affairs. And I studied

diplomacy to become a diplomat, and with the dream that we

can get, you know, to the normalizations of relations between

Vietnam and the United States. So this is the areas that now is --

in 1995 that dream came true. And you know, we have the stageof level relations these days.

WOODRUFF: You know, I know you've been a very large

advocacy for trying to increase the relationship between the

United States and Vietnam. Did you ever even imagine you

would be here in the United States those years ago?

MINH: At that time?

WOODRUFF: Yeah, back in the 1970s?


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MINH: No. (Laughter.) At that time no because the -- before

1975 -- didn't know when the war would end. So that's why I

could not imagine that would be in the States. (Chuckles.)

WOODRUFF: Well, when did you first -- when was the firsttime you did think about that?

MINH: That's when -- in the 1980s when I enter into the foreign

affairs -- foreign ministry. And at that time I work in the --

(inaudible) -- diplomacy, or what we call the International

Organization Department. And my job at that time directly

linked to the work of the United Nations. So I went to NewYork to attend the United Nations sessions.

WOODRUFF: I know that again this is personal, but what was

your father's -- I mean, what is his opinion of that, his thoughts

about you following the kind of work that you did and coming

eventually to this country where, you know, he was -- he was

deeply involved in the war back then?

MINH: Yes. You know that we have a policy set up when we

normalized our relationship with the United States; we have

slogan that put the past aside and look to the future. So every

effort to normalize the relations between the two enemies -- that

is a perfect one.

WOODRUFF: And that's why the last -- that's my last question

about the past. (Chuckles.) Let's move on to the -- to thepresent and the future. You know, certainly when you look at --

the change in this country economically is huge. And I lived

from -- it's pretty amazing -- in all of Southeast Asia, I've never


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been to Vietnam. That's about the only country I haven't been

to.

MINH: (Inaudible.)

WOODRUFF: So that's mainly why I want to meet you, so I

can go visit you there. (Laughter.) But I lived in China, in

Beijing, in 1988 and 1989. And then we saw a country that was

just beginning to change significantly at that time, of course

triggered and set back significantly by Tianenmen Square,

which was the end of my stay there. But if you look at the

numbers of people emerging out of -- out of poverty in China, Ithink there's about 300 million have come out of poverty for the

last 30 years. For you, I think the poverty ratings -- I think it

was about 75 percent considered in poverty level, and then down

to 14 percent now, from 1990 until now. How do you see the

economy and the reason for this recovery over time?

MINH: You know, for Vietnam for the past 10 years we have

maintained the economic grow rate at about 7 (percent) to -- 7percent to 8 percent, and that helped reduce the poverty rate a

lot, and also the government has a priority policy for the poor

people. That's why, you know, for the MDG, this is one of the

target we have achieved beyond -- before the date -- set for

2015. That's the package for 2015, but we got that packet before

that date. So that is I think the reason (I thought ?) the economic

growth in Vietnam.

WOODRUFF: And you've got growth every year in the

economy. I think the number now is about 18 percent inflation.


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MINH: Eighteen percent inflation -- yes, for this year. And that

is one of the most -- one of the problematic issue for the

economy of Vietnam.

WOODRUFF: So what do you do about that?

MINH: Now there's a couple of measures adopted by the

government. That is one of the -- one of the measure, is to

control the public expenditure, reduce the projects. The

investment for the projects seems to be not very productive, so

we reduce the -- those projects. And also, to keep the interest

rate down a little bit. But still, the inflation still high. For thismonth, it seems to be better than last month, but still very high.

WOODRUFF: So moving on to regional tension, which of

course is a -- certainly, significantly with China, which, of

course, is the most powerful country right now all throughout

Asia, what are your fears about that right now? Obviously, (I've

been ?), and it's said before that China looks at the China Sea as

a large cow's tongue that kind of goes deeply below China andgoes right along the border from the water of Vietnam. How is

that going to continue without some kind of battle, some kind of

potential -- wouldn't call it a war, but how would you -- what do

you think is going to happen to try to control what China is

trying to impose on you?

MINH: You know that with China at the present time we have -

- what we describe the relationship is a comprehensivecooperation. And also, China is our -- one of our -- we set up

the strategic partnership with China. China is among the seven

countries we have the strategic partnership. And the relationship

between Vietnam and China is good in all fields.


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Look at the economic side. We had the trade turnover, about 20

billion U.S. dollar, because we are at an advantage. We -- you

know, we have deficit in trade with China. And political side,

we have exchange of visits at the high-level officials. Culture,education and other aspects: Good.

Only one remaining issue. That is what you mentioned that --

the cow tongue. The cow tongue is legally groundless. There is

no legal foundation for the cow tongue. Both China and

Vietnam are member -- are party to the united convention from

the law of the sea, 1982. And the United Nations Convention

from (sic) the Law of the Sea recognized the exclusive economiczone of the country with the sea. And Vietnam has the

exclusive economic zone of the sea in 200 miles. And the cow

tongue reached to the continental shelf not only of Vietnam, but

also of the Philippines and other countries in Southeast

Asia. That is why it's not in accordance with the United Nations

Convention on the Law of the Sea -- which China and Vietnam

are both members of the convention.

WOODRUFF: And so, of course, this is a, potentially, much

larger naval war zone than has been anywhere else in the world,

because of the sea.

In terms of the relationship with the -- with the U.S. military,

certainly in some ways our naval power has now peaked. I think

the budget restrictions in our country are to some degree

weakening our potential military, you know, work and

operations in the part near Vietnam, and certainly the Middle

East, where we're diverting a lot of that now to that part of the

world. If the United States, in terms of the military power and

assistance to you in that world -- how do you think that will


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affect you and how much badly and deeply do you now (need ?)

the United States to set up our -- step up our power, in Southeast

Asia especially?

MINH: You know that in South China Sea, what we callEastern Sea, there are three dimensions of the issue. The

territorial dispute must be solved through peaceful solution by

the country concerned. The second dimensions of the South

China Sea is the stability, security, stability in the

region. Anything happens in South China Sea will affect peace

and stability of the countries in the region -- of the region, of

course indirectly but to other countries.

And the first dimension is the navigation, freedom of

navigation. So, anything happens in South China Sea will affect

the freedom of navigation, so, of course, affect other countries,

not only United States -- Japan, other -- India, as well. So we

see that -- the efforts by countries inside and outside to make

that stable. We appreciate that effort.

WOODRUFF: I know you've relied on it for a long time. Now

there's been -- well, our budget certainly is, you know, difficult

for us right now, but your budget is -- as much of Southeast Asia

-- the budget for military defense is now on the rise, and huge

percentage of importing weapons is on the rise. Where do you

see Vietnam going in terms of what kinds of weapons you're

going to be buying different than before, what countries you

would be importing it from, other than Russia, and how that's

going to change over time?

MINH: No, in comparisons with the budgets for military

expenditure, the budget of Vietnam is very small.


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WOODRUFF: Small but (growing ?).

MINH: Very small. You compare with, you know, percentage

of GDP, that we have enough weapons to defend our

country. That is the target (solely ?). And surely now at thepresent time we buy weapons from Russia. This is true. And

still we have -- we need only enough weapons to defend our

country. This is our target.

WOODRUFF: You know, once I did an hour on China's

expansion, and we looked everywhere from Brazil to Angola --

Angola, where they're, you know, getting oil, and Brazil, theyneed more, you know, food and soybeans, which numbers have

gone up gigantically for them. And in terms of countries

around, you know, in the southeastern -- in Asia, it's largely

influence that they're trying to increase, and largely because of

that, of course, is, like you said, navigation -- it's largely to get

oil and gas and things, you know, through those areas back into

their country.

Do you think if you were to pick a reason why there'll be a huge

-- a large conflict, would it be because of that, because China

has difficulty getting its energy and food into its country?

MINH: There are different analyses on that. You know, the

conflicts -- the cause of conflicts may come from different

reasons. So on a specific case --

WOODRUFF: What about importing oil, for example, through

the sea in (Malacca ?).

MINH: In what?


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WOODRUFF: To go through -- over the sea towards China,

largely from the Middle East.

MINH: I don't have the figure for the oil reserves in South

China Sea. So I don't know how the resources of oil in SouthChina Sea could affect -- could lead to the conflict, not like in

the Middle East. Middle East is absolutely sure that the course

of conflict in that may come from oil.

WOODRUFF: I know we're going to open this up for questions

in a minute, but what about human rights in Vietnam? How do

you see that changing since it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago,and certainly particularly about religious rights?

MINH: You mentioned that you haven't been to Vietnam, right?

WOODRUFF: Not yet. And I'm still waiting for your --

(laughter) -- I'm waiting for your invitation.

MINH: Yes. And I know that some of you in this room have

been to Vietnam and you have seen a lot of changes in Vietnam,especially since 1975 until now. And one thing may not be

changed: that is our commitment to the protection of human

rights in Vietnam. If you look at the policies of Vietnam, we --

our policies always focusing on the betterment of the living

standard of the people, and also along with that is the rights of

the people. So that is our commitment to that.

Of course, there is a different approach to the human

rights. That's why every year we have conducted many

dialogues with different countries, including the United States,

on the issue of human rights.


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WOODRUFF: Well, how does -- how about diplomacy

overseas? You know, with the United States, we -- obviously

there's a lot of --

MINH: (Inaudible.)

WOODRUFF: -- (inaudible) -- human rights and --

overseas. China, you know, stays away from that as much as

they can. Where do you see Vietnam going on that?

MINH: As I mentioned, that is a different kind of approach to

human rights agenda. Nowadays, many Vietnamese, what you

would call the "overseas Vietnamese," return to Vietnam forvisiting their friends, their families and for doing business. And

of course, one part of the community still not yet return to

Vietnam, because they know that we had a war in

Vietnam. And there still exists the -- you know, the

misunderstanding of this, even the hatred. So that can give the

reasons why some of them have not come home yet. But we are

-- we welcome all of them to come back -- (inaudible). We areopen.

WOODRUFF: And then the last. Given what we're talking

about, certainly about the growth of the economy especially and

what you're doing to raise that, do you still consider Vietnam to

be a communist country, a capitalist country, a balance between

the two, significantly different than it was before?

MINH: (Inaudible.) (Laughter.) We have -- we have the party,

the Communist Party. As I mentioned in my paper, we have just

held the 11th National Party Congress. And we adopted the --

what you call the market economy, because it's suitable for the


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development of Vietnam. But we're still continuing to be a

communist country. As the name of Vietnam -- (inaudible) --

Socialist Republic of Vietnam.

WOODRUFF: So certainly in name.

MINH: Well, we're still also -- (inaudible).

WOODRUFF: Thank you very much. If -- obviously open up

for questions.

QUESTIONER: Following up on that. (Off mic.) Larry

Pressler (sp). Following up on that, Vietnam seems to be caughtin between being a state-run economy and free enterprise. And

for example, in free trade agreements and investment -- by way

of disclosure, I serve on a board at the Vietnam Fund, and we

find it much more difficult to make investments or to deal with

the stock market or transparency. And I'm certainly not

criticizing, but are you going to be a state-run economy or are

you going to invite more foreign investment?MINH: Thank you. Thank you for that question. And you

know that now in Vietnam we have the stock exchange market,

and also we have the private companies, and of course we also

have the state-run companies. And also -- and now the

government has the policy to what you call the equitization of

the state-run companies. So you look at that, we have -- still

have the state-run companies, the private -- 100-percent ownedby foreign -- foreign-owned companies, joint ventures. So you

can see the mixture of the investment in Vietnam.

And of course, we welcome all kind of investment in

Vietnam. And we treat investment from outside as well as


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domestic investments at the same treatment. We have the same

treatment, the same favorable conditions for all foreign investor,

also domestic investors. We had the law on that.

QUESTIONER: Ken Roth from Human Rights Watch. Iwanted to follow up on the human rights question because I

heard you answer by referring to economic development, which

is, of course, you know, one important part, you know. But I

didn't hear anything about the other parts. I'm wondering why,

given Vietnam's self confidence today -- (off mic) -- is it still not

allowing, say, people to -- (off mic) -- the government -- (off

mic)? I mean, why is it still suppressing bloggers who mightwrite about production -- (off mic)? There are a range of the

other kinds of rights that we haven't gotten yet. And given its

self-confidence in the world, I'm just wondering -- (off mic).

MINH: You know that Vietnam is a party to nearly all

conventions on human rights. And like the United States, we

also are members of the -- what do you call -- the Universal

Declarations of Human Rights.

QUESTIONER: (Off mic.)

MINH: And we respect the particularities and universality of

human rights. Both economic, political rights -- those are in the

constitution of Vietnam. As you mentioned, some individuals --

yes, like any countries -- if anyone violates the constitution, the

law, they must be put in jail; they must be dealt with, you know,legally.

I remember a few years ago recently we have -- we had

dialogues with United Kingdom, for example. And they


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mentioned that why you control the -- some kind of

demonstration. But look at U.K., all right? A few weeks or few

months ago they adopt the -- I don't know the rule or something

-- control demonstration after the burning down in London, orsomething like that. So look, if you had some security concern,

you had to adopt some kind of measure. So that is normal. But

we respect the human rights in all fields because we are

members of the -- all conventions on human rights.

QUESTIONER: Thank you, Minister. Dinah PoKempner, also

of Human Rights Watch. Following on that question, while

Vietnam does have a very good record of signing human rightstreaties, it has a less admirable record when it comes to

transparency in admitting U.N. human rights mechanisms or

international groups to visit. Recently there's been a

controversy, for example, on the possible export of some

products produced by forced labor -- "blood cashews." And I'm

wondering, since Vietnam is taking a very -- more forward and

prominent role in international affairs and diplomacy, whether it

would also be starting to become more transparent and

welcoming of human rights mechanisms. Thank you.

MINH: Sorry, I cannot -- (inaudible) -- your question on the --

what labor?

MR. : (Off mic.)

MINH: We welcome the visits to those areas because I don'tknow that information. There is no -- it's not the right

information on that. So we welcome the visit.

MR. : (Off mic.)


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WOODRUFF: (Chuckles.) That's right. That's a different kind

of tourism, though, so I'm not going to -- (laughter) --

QUESTIONER: Hi, I'm Brett Dakin, a term member here at the

council. I wanted to draw attention for a second to theimportance of the Mekong River and the region; and in

particular, some rather unusual disputes recently between

Vietnam and the Lao PDR about the use of the Mekong River

for hydroelectric power. So if you could comment on Vietnam's

approach to that issue, and in particular on the project that the

Lao PDR would like to pursue with respect to harnessing the

power of the Mekong to produce electricity. Thanks.

MINH: Thank you. I would not describe it a dispute between

Vietnam and Lao (sic) on that. You know, along the Mekong

River there are six countries. We had the commission, the

Mekong Commission, which comprised four countries. Laos,

Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam are members of the

commission. And in the commission, we have agreement that if

any country develop hydro -- hydrotic (sic) power, in themainstream of the Mekong River, must inform other members of

the commission of the project, of the utilization and also the

details of the project.

Of course, upstream, there are two other countries. They have

developed many projects along the mainstream, but they haven't

inform us. But they already install the projects upstream.

For Laos, Lao (sic) has an intention to develop the projects

along the Mekong River. When we know -- when Lao (sic)

inform the Mekong Commission about the project, the members

of the Mekong Commission, Vietnam and other countries, asked


22/28

Lao (sic) to give details of the project. And also, we asked for

study, a scientific study, to make sure that the project, if affect

the -- what do you call the change that the mainstream on the --

that the water flow -- the water flow, which affect the lowerMekong country like Vietnam and Cambodia -- because it will

affect the production of rice area in Vietnam.

And now the process is that we ask Lao (sic) to give us the detail

in a scientific manner, the project. And Lao (sic) already hire a

company, a Swiss company, a Swiss -- what do you call the --

MR. : (Consulting company ?).MINH: Consulting company, to make study on the utilization --

on the dam in Xayaburi. And they will inform us with the help

of the study.

QUESTIONER: Yes, Elizabeth Bramwell, Bramwell

Capital. Your 7 (percent) to 8 percent growth rate is very

impressive. And I was wondering if that's sustainable, given thefact that Europe and the U.S. are slowing down to something

like 2 percent, maybe less; and where Vietnam is in terms of

moving from more of an export market, export-driven economy,

to one that is more domestically driven, or maybe ASEAN

driven.

MINH: Thank you for that question. That is also the --

(inaudible) -- now for us, as I mentioned, that we havemaintained the economic grow rate for -- you know, for 10 years

at the rate of 7 (percent) to 8 percent. And right now, the grow

rate registers at 5.5 percent. And that -- our economy is very

much -- we very much depends on export, that's sure. And that's


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why we depends on the market outside. If the demand going

down, like in the United States if you don't spend your money

on consumption, so that's hard for us. And now the government

is considering the restructuring of the economy, how torestructure it. That is a problem. We still continue to restructure

the economy.

QUESTIONER: (Name inaudible.) I work at the United

Nations Foundation, and I'm a term member of the

council. Thank you for being here.

I think some people were very encouraged to see Vietnamplaying a greater role in the world, particularly with your

membership on the Security Council. And I think many people

see that as bringing along with it a greater responsibility as well

in the world. And I know that some were also disappointed at

the same time to see that there were crackdowns -- just

following up on Ken Roth's question -- crackdowns on practice

of religion there. And some would say there's a difference

between practicing religion and demonstrations and crowdcontrol.

Is there any possibility of adjusting the laws so that people can

practice their religion freely there, and in line with Vietnam's

sort of greater responsibility in the world? (In Vietnamese.)

MINH: (Please ?) come to visit Vietnam and see the church on

Sunday. Even I myself cannot get into the church on Sunday oreven in the Christmas Eve. It's very crowded. So I don't see

any, you know, kind of discriminations against the practice of

religious practice in Vietnam. So please come to visit us.


24/28

QUESTIONER: Jeff Laurenti with the Century

Foundation. This is somewhat of a mirror to Ken Roth's

question, and it deals with the economic rights. Chinese

business is concerned about Vietnam being an even lower-wageeconomy and draining business and investment to Vietnam. The

producers of apparel and such look to Vietnam and idealize it as

a place that you aren't bothered with unions and have low wages

and a docile workforce.

What are the protections that Vietnam actually enforces for the

rights of workers to be able to organize in unions, or are they

entirely under pretty firm government control? What kind ofstatic do you have from the International Labor Organization on

compliance with the international conventions on labor

rights? And how does the Communist Party see its vocation as

the movement of workers and peasants and yet trying to find a

way to bring in as much foreign investment as possible by

restricting labor rights in order to encourage the maximum

amount of investment to get to economic takeoff?

MINH: Yes, thank you. And yes, in Vietnam, we have

union(s). And you could call it the state union or union. That is

a union. And the workers are members of the unions. And I

think that also in the foreign (investment factory ?), there's still

union in that. So I don't understand what is this restriction on

these low rates. We encourage, you know, the labor can receive

high salary, high income. So I don't see any restrictions on thelabor costs in Vietnam. So I'm not sure that it is the question

that you have raised about the restrictions of labor rate of --

(inaudible).


25/28

QUESTIONER: And the protections of the -- of the guarantees

in the ILO convention, freedom of association, in order to assure

the maximum chance for workers to get a larger share of the

fruits of their work.MINH: Surely -- (inaudible) -- discussions in the National

Assembly on the -- (inaudible) -- labor court in

Vietnam. There's -- I believe that there is a kind of discussions

on the new labor court in Vietnam. So maybe take into

consideration that -- (inaudible).

QUESTIONER: Yes, George Weiksner, Credit Suisse. I wantto congratulate you on normalizing relations with the

U.S. We're sometimes a difficult political entity to deal

with. I'd be interested in what advice you might give Cuba,

who's trying to normalize relationship, in emulating your

success.

MR. : (Off mic.) (Laughter.)

MINH: It's a tough question, because each country has its own

characteristics and different background of history. So -- maybe

our advice is patience. (Laughter.) We had 20 years after 1975

until 1995, 20 years of discussions for the normalization. And

that is long enough for patience; and also, you know, both sides

has interest in normalizing the relationship.

WOODRUFF: Do you want to -- (inaudible)?

QUESTIONER: No.

WOODRUFF: Huh?


26/28

QUESTIONER: (Off mic.)

WOODRUFF: OK. All right. Since you run the place, you can

go back. (Laughter.)

QUESTIONER: I rarely ask a question. I'm going to break my

rule. I'm Richard Haass. I work here. (Laughter.)

You said something very interesting in your remarks. You said

in your meeting with the secretary of state, you were discussing

the possibility of a strategic partnership between the United

States and your country. So I would be curious what would be

the content of that partnership. What would you like to see inour relationship in the future that you don't see now? And to

what extent would it be oriented towards the rise of China or

something in addition to that?

MINH: Me also, very curious on the content -- (laughter) -- of

the strategic partnership, because we are now still discussing

what would be the coverage of the strategic partnership. Yes, ofcourse, we focus on all aspects, because to be a strategic

partnership, we believe that it would cover all political relations,

economic ties, education, defense, security, technology, that all

areas would be covered in the strategic partnership, like the

strategic partnership we have established with other

countries. And of course we have -- at present time we have six

or seven strategic partnerships, and none of these will be against

any country. So it's absolutely (that ?) -- strategic partnership,we promote the relations between the two countries and also

contribute to the peace and stability in the region. This I

believe.


27/28

QUESTIONER: My name is Jim Harmon. Eleven, 12 years

ago, I was chairman of the Ex-Im Bank, and we reopened in

Vietnam. At the time, we thought a lot about further

normalization of relationships between the United States andVietnam, and we expected then that state-owned enterprises as a

percentage of that which consumes capital or produces would be

reduced significantly in Vietnam.

Today I run a fund which invests in the developing and frontier

world, including Vietnam, and we're a little bit discouraged by

the fact that state-owned enterprises still consume 50 percent of

the capital in the country but produce 25 percent, or represent 25percent of the production. So as you think about restructuring

the economy -- and I know that you can do this -- you would

focus in on further privatization and maybe even the limitations

that you place on foreign investors not exceeding more than 50

percent of the number of publicly owned companies.

So there are things that you could do which would significantly

encourage investment in Vietnam from not only the UnitedStates but all over the world. And also, I think it would help

relative to the inflation problem, of course, that you have.

MINH: Yes, as I mentioned, that now the government is trying

to restructure the economy, (in that ?), of course, the state-

owned enterprises. We have the plan for reduce the state-owned

enterprises, especially those ineffective enterprises. With the

state-owned enterprises which stay -- which are -- which stay

effective, we continue to keep it and maintain it because they

can -- they make contributions to the growth of the economy of

Vietnam. And as I mentioned, that we welcome all kind of

investment in Vietnam. There is no distinction between the


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state-owned enterprises or the foreign-owned companies. There

is the same playing level for all enterprises in Vietnam, for all

kind of foreign investment. I don't know whether I -- my answer

will be appropriate to your question or not.WOODRUFF: Well, thank you very much. It's been a great

education from our professor. (Laughter.) I appreciate it.

MINH: Thank you.

WOODRUFF: Take me over to your country very soon with

my little children, who want to go. (Laughter.) We'll figure a(n)

exact semester to go to -- we'll figure that out later. But again,thank you very much for all the -- (applause) --

MR. : Thank you.

MINH: Thank you, Bob.

Thank you very much.

A Conversation With Pham Binh Minh

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Transcript of A Conversation With Pham Binh Minh