8, - International Joint Commission · bill dobbins c. c. mccurdy carol l. dewey court reporter....

INDEX - OROVILLE, WASHINGTON

DECEMBER 8 , 1 9 8 1

DONALD W. MOOS, D i r e c t o r , D e p a r t m e n t of E c o l o g y , State of Washington

JAMES CHANDLER, L e g a l A d v i s e r , U n i t e d States Sect ion, I J C

SAMUEL WEX, L e g a l A d v i s e r C a n a d i a n Section, I J C

JOHN SPENCER, D e p a r t m e n t of E c o l o g y State of Washington

STEVE MITCHELL, D e p a r t m e n t of E c o l o g y State of Washington

CHARLES COLLIER, 28 C o - C h a i r m a n , In te rna t iona l O s o y o o s L a k e B o a r d of C o n t r o l ( D i s t r i c t C h i e f , U n i t e d States

G e o l o g i c a l S u r v e y )

DICK THAYER, Pres ident , S i r n i l k a m e e n - O k a n o g a n Flood Control and R e c l a m a t i o n L e a g u e

ART HENDERSON

STAN PORTER, P a s t P r e s i d e n t O r o v i l l e C h a m b e r of Commerce

B I L L DOBBINS

C. C. McCURDY

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporter. Inc.

S. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203

(509) 446-8487

INDEX - OSOYOOS, B R I T I S H COLUMBIA

DECEMBER 8 , 1 9 8 1

DONALD W . MOOS,

D e p a r t m e n t of E c o l o g y , S t a t e of Washington

JAMES CHANDLER, L e g a l A d v i s e r , U n i t e d States Section, I J C

GORDON TOFTE, R e g i o n a l C h i e f , Water R e s o u r c e s B r a n c h of Inland Waters D i r e c t o r a t e , P a c i f i c and Y u k o n R e g i o n and C h a i r m a n of t h e C a n a d i a n Sect ion

ROBERT EDWARDS Province of British Columbia SAMUEL WEX, L e g a l A d v i s e r , C a n a d i a n Sect ion, I J C

JOHN SPENCER, D e p a r t m e n t of E c o l o g y , State of Washington

STEVE MITCHELL, D e p a r t m e n t of E c o l o g y , State of Washington

PETER BRADY, D i r e c t o r , Water M a n a g e m e n t B r a n c h M i n i s t r y of E n v i r o n m e n t

MURRAY CLAMEN, 86 E n g i n e e r

C H I E F SAM BAPTISTE 99 O s o y o o s Indian B a n d

SHIRLEY PETERS, A s s i s t a n t , O s o y o o s Indian B a n d 99

MR. MCGINNIS, 1 1 9 R a n c h e r

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporter, Inc.


(509) 448.8467 (ii)

LOCKIE MILES, A d m i n i s t r a t o r , V i l l a g e of O s o y o o s

DOUGLAS FRASER, D i r e c t o r

FLORENCE WHITMORE, S e c r e t a r y , O s o y o o s R u r a l R a t e p a y e r s ' A s s o c i a t i o n

HARRY SHEARDOWN O s o y o o s , B . C .

CAROL L. DEWEY Court ReDOrter. Inc.

S. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 ( i i i )

9:30 A.M.

DECENBER 8, 1981

OROVILLE , WASHINGTON

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: ~ a d i e k and gentlemen, i f w e

may come t o o r d e r and proceed wi th t h i s morning 's hear ing .

F i r s t l e t m e i n t roduce myself and then . t h e o t h e r members of

t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l J o i n t Commission o f t h e United S t a t e s and

Canada. I My name i s Bob McEwen. I a m from Ogdensburg, Mew

York. I am s u r e you a ' l l know where t h a t is . That i s t h e

sr.:all c i t y on t h e banks of t h e S a i n t Lawrence River on t h e

U.S. s i d e s o I am from t h e United S t a t e s s e c t i o n .

On my l e f t , your r i g h t , i s E. Richmond Olson who i s

t h e Acting Chairman of t h e Canadian Sec t ion . To h i s l e f t

i s Kei th Bulen of Ind ianapo l i s , Ind iana . To my extreme

r i g h t , your l e f t , i s Sena tor Donald To t t en from I l l i n o i s .

O n my i ~ m e d i a t e r i g h t Char les Bedard from Montreal , Quebec.

I am s u r e a l l of you i n t h i s border a r e a have s0r.e

f a m i l i a r i t y w i th t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l J o i n t Commission c r e a t e d

under t h e Boundary FJaters T rea ty o f 1909 s p e c i f i c a l l y

under A r t i c l e s I V and V I I I of t h a t t r e a t y and i s t h e

s u b j e c t of t h i s hear ing t o t h i s Commission.

L e t m e say a t t h e o u t s e t on beha l f of myself and a l l

of t h e members of the omission we have been most I CAROL L. DEWEY

Court Reponer, Inc. S. 5107 PERRY

SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 (509) 4468467

impressed, one, with the hospitality we have received both

here in Oroville and in Osoyoos and the beauty of the area.

My northern New York has some small mountains called the

Adirondacks but I might say that my friends from Illinois

and Indiana where they can look right into next month are

really impressed with the beauty of the mountains that

surround this beautiful Okanogan valley.

As I mentioned to you, when you testify please be

seated at the end of the table nearest Ms. Dewey so she can

clearly hear your testimony. The cards, if you haven't

already made them out, you may wish to do so if you wish to

Also I am sure those in Oroville know him well,

Mr. Rick Kernan. Is he here? I guess Mr. Kernan is busy

elsewhere. He very kindly made this room available to us

for this hearing. We are most appreciative of 14.r. Kernan's

accommodating us.

We have, of course, with us members of the Internationa

Osoyoos Lake Board of Control. We will be hearing from them

shortly. I think that we should be ready to proceed. At

this point I recognize Commissioner Bulen for the purpose of

swearing witnesses.

COMMISSIONER BULEN: Would each of you knowing them-

selves to give testimony before us today kindly stand and

raise your right hand for the administration of an oath,



(509) 448-8467

anyone knowing they a r e going t o g i v e test imony today,

c i t i z e n s , o f f i c i a l s , what have you.

Do each and every one of you solemnly swear t h a t t h e

f a c t s you w i l l g ive before t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l J o i n t

Conmission w i l l be t h e t r u t h , t h e whole t r u t h and nothing

bu t t h e t r u t h , s o h e l p you God.

RESPONSE I N UNISON: I do.

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: The a p p l i c a n t i n t h i s case is

t h e S t a t e of Washington and t h e Commission would recognize

a t t h i s t i m e M r . Donald W. Moos who w i l l t e s t i f y f o r t h e

S t a t e of Washington.

DONALD W . MOOS, having Seen sworn on o a t h , d i d Di rec tor , t e s t i f y a s follows: Department of Ecology, S t a t e of Washington

MR. MOOS: Mr. Chairman, members of t h e J o i n t

Commission, w e welcome you t o t h e S t a t e of Washington. We

hope you enjoy many p a r t s of t h e s t a t e i n your v i s i t t o us.

W e app rec i a t e you tak ing your t i m e f o r t h i s business .

C H A I R i i McEWEN: M r . Eloos , maybe you were

in tending t o , bu t would you in t roduce your co l leagues .

MR. NOOS: I am pleased t o be a s soc i a t ed today

wi th John Spencer, s i t t i n g nex t t o me, and Steve Mi tche l l .

The t h r e e of us a r e from t h e S t a t e Department of Ecology. /'

During t h e p a s t decade B r i t i s h Columbia and t h e S t a t e

of Washington have been working i n d i v i d u a l l y t o develop



(509) 448-8467 4 MOOS

Okanogan basin wi th in t h e i r own boundaries. Washington

S t a t e developed t h e Water Resources Management Program f o r

i t s por t ion of t h e bas in . This program was adopted i n 1976. I B r i t i s h Columbia's e f f o r t s f o r i t s >or t ion of t h e

Okanogan basin r e s u l t e d i n t h e Comprehensive Plan prepared

under t h e Canada, B r i t i s h Columbia Okanagan Basin Agreement.

I t s plan was submitted i n 1974.

Both ind iv idua l programs had t h e purpose of evolving

frameworks f o r t h e proper development and management of t h e

water resources wi th in t h e Okanogan basin i n each of t h e two

countr ies . . I n conjunction with t h e s e independent programs

t h e Province and t h e S t a t e recognized t h e need t o addr.ess

water resource problems wi th in t h e bas in t h a t was common t o

both coun t r i e s .

For t h e p a s t 1 0 years o r so B r i t i s h Columbia and

Washington S t a t e have worked together t o reach mutual

runderstanding and agreement concerning t rans-border flows

on t h e Okanogan River and acceptance l e v e l s f o r the-

i n t e r n a t i o n a l waters of Osoyoos Lake.

These e f f o r t s were rewarded i n 1980 when t h e S t a t e

"(I and Province completed t h e i r Cooperation Plan. W e have

23J 1 provided a copy of t h i s plan t o t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l J o i n t

2411 Commission along with our Applicat ion f o r Order of ApprovaT.

24 The B r i t i s h Columbia-Washington S t a t e coope.ration

CAROL L. DEWEY

i Court Reporter, Inc. S. 5107 PERRY

SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 (509) 448-8487

5 MOOS

Plan contains acceptable opera t ing procedures f o r r egu la t ion

of Osoyoos Lake l e v e l s .

Fur ther , t h e plan inc ludes condi t ions governing

trans-border flows from B r i t i s h Columbia i n t o Washington

S t a t e . Also included i n t h e plan a r e provis ions f o r

emergency s to rage i n Osoyoos Lake during water-short years .

This emergency s to rage would be used f o r f i s h e r i e s pro tec t io i

domestic use and i r r i g a t i o n needs i n both count r ies . /

During t h i s per iod when t h e Cooperation Plan was being

10

1 1

developed, d iscuss ions a l s o centered around replac ing Zosel

Dam.-. This dam i s t h e e x i s t i n g c o n t r o l s t r u c t u r e f o r

12

13

l9 1 Upon request by t he Commission in 1978 the U n i t e d I

Osoyoos Lake. We found t h a t , Zosel Dam i s nearing t h e end of

fits use fu l l i f e . The o r i g i n a l purpose of t h e s t r u c t u r e when

14

15

16

17

18

cons t ruc ted i n 1927 was t o c r e a t e a millpond f o r log s torage .

I n 1948 it was modified t o inc rease i t s capac i ty f o r passing

l a r g e flows. The millpond i s no longer used and t h e dam i s

i n a d e t e r i o r a t e d condi t ion , ,Emergency r e p a i r s were needed

i n 1974, 1975 and again i n 1979.

23 1 by t h e Commission. F a i l u r e of Zosel Dam t o maintain I

20

21

22

S t a t e s Army Corps of Engineers inspected t h e dam f o r

s t r u c t u r a l i n t e g r i t y . The dam was found t o be i n extremely

poor condi t ion and overs t ressed a t l ake e l eva t ions requi red

24

25

e x i s t i n g es t ab l i shed l ake l e v e l s would r e s u l t i n appreciable

damage and f i n a n c i a l l o s s t o a g r i c u l t u r a l , r e c r e a t i o n a l and

\ - CAROL L. DEWEY

Coun Reporter, Inc. S. 5107 PERRY

SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 (50s) 448-8467 6 MOOS

municipal interests in both British Columbia and Washington

In 1978 the International Joint Commission requested

the United States Army Corps of Engineers to develop a

concept plan for a new control structure for Osoyoos Lake,

The Corps submitted its plan in 1979. The Corps' concept

plan, with some modifications, has been correlated into the

Washington State application now before the Commission.

The Commission has also received up-to-date drawings

of the proposed structure with operating water elevations.

In essence, the proposed Osoyoos Lake control structure

would provide the physical capability to efficiently

implement the British Columbia-Washington State Cooperation

,Plan. At the same time the existing, out-moded structure

would be replaced, The (British Columbia government has

provided assistance in formulating our application and we

have received their endorsement. Th'e State and the Province

are now working together to develop suitable financial

arrangements for funding the proposed control structure.

With that, we respectfully request the Commission's

approval of our Application for an Order of Approval.

CHAIPMAN McEWEN: May I interject here before

questioning two things I think I omitted. If any of you

have prepared statements, which you do not have to have to

testify, but if you do it might be helpful to Ms. Dewey.if


S. 5107 PERRY /-


7 MOOS

you would hand he r a copy of those s tatements .

Also, a s I am s u r e many here know, and some here w i l l

a l s o be appearing a t t h e second hearing t h i s af ternoon i n

Osoyoos, B r i t i s h Columbia, l e t me assu re a l l t h a t be you

United S t a t e s o r Canadian c i t i z e n s , you a r e welcome here

t h i s morning and you w i l l be welcome t h i s af ternoon when

t h e Acting Chairman of t h e Canadian Sect ion , Xr. Rich Olson,

w i l l be p res id ing i n Osoyoos. I f t i m e should prevent your

being heard t h i s morning, and I t r u s t it won't , you a r e

welcome t o come t o Osoyoos o r i f you j u s t wish t o come t o

hear t h e comments o r ques t ions t h a t a r e r a i s e d the re .

Now, f o r Nr. Moos, any ques t ions from t h e Commission?

I recognize Commissioner Olson. Do you have quest ions?

COMMISSIONER OLSON: Actual ly t h e t a s k , a s I

understand it, and t h e r e i s some confusion t h i s morning

with t h e gentlemen from t h e media, i f you a r e expect ing t h e

case t o be argued by t h e Commission on behalf of an. *

organiza t ion o r t h e S t a t e , t h a t i s no t our r e s p o n s i b i l i t y .

Our r e s p o n s i b i l i t y i s something e l s e , and t o t h a t end what

w e a r e , i n a sense, here f o r i s t o s a t i s f y ourse lves t h a t

we a r e aware of a l l t h e circumstances and a l l t h e f a c t u a l

a s wel l a s t h e phys ica l background of t h e mat ter which we

t r e a t with some importance. Even though it may be a

small p r o j e c t , I th ink it does have , implicat ions on a much

broader s c a l e , and t o t h a t end and t o he lp us a l l g e t a



(M9) 448-8467 1 OLSON

f u l l e r understanding of t h e matter t h e two counsel t o t h e

Commission, M r . Wex and M r . Chandler, w i l l a t tempt t o he lp

us i n br inging it f o r t h . I would be q u i t e happy i f

M r . Wex and M r . Chandler would speak f o r t h e Commission i n

t h i s process .

Perhaps i f you could come a b i t more forward,

Mr. Chandler, and M r . Wex.

I f I have o t h e r th ings t h a t a r e s t i l l worrying m e , I

w i l l i n t e r r u p t o r fol low on a f t e r .

JAMES CHANDLER, Legal Adviser, United S t a t e s Sec t ion , I J C

MR. CHANDLER: I th ink t h e f i r s t a rea we would

l i k e t o g e t i n t o i s t h e purpose of t h e new s t r u c t u r e from

t h e po in t of view of t h e S t a t e of b7ashington. The reason

f o r t h i s i s t h a t while i t ' s f i n e f o r t h e S t a t e and t h e

Province t o work together t o come t o a way they want t o

opera te t h e system, t h e commission has t o cons ider a

s p e c i f i c reques t from a s p e c i f i c a p p l i c a n t f o r a p a r t i c u l a r

use of w a t e r , a p a r t i c u l a r use of t h e s t r u c t u r e , and then

t h e Commission must t r y t o a s s e s s what i n t e r e s t may be

adversely a f f e c t e d upstream t o B r i t i s h Columbia and make

whatever provis ion they f e e l is appropr ia t e f o r t h e

p ro tec t ion and indemnity of those i n t e r e s t s . T h a t ' s p r e t t y

much what w e w i l l focus on now.

Af te r a review of t h e t r a n s c r i p t of t h e 1978 hear ings



(SOS) 448-8467 9 CHANDLER

I I it seemed t o us t h e r e w e r e t h r e e b a s i c purposes from t h e

2 1 po in t of view of t h e S t a t e of Washington. The f i r s t had t o

3 1 do with t h e f lood con t ro l during severe floods: t h e second

4 I had t o do with t h e conse rva t ion of water o r s to rage during

5 1 drought yea r s f o r i r r i g a t i o n purposes and here w e a r e no t

6 1 su re whether it was i r r i g a t i o n purposes s o l e l y wi th in t h e

7 I Osoyoos Lake bas in o r below Lake Osoyoos; and t h i r d f o r t h e

9 I su re t h i s meant t h e f i s h e r y . Again, it was no t c l e a r

8

lo 1 whether t h i s was t h e f i s h e r y i n Lake Osoyoos o r downstream

pro tec t ion of in-stream resources and here w e a r e p r e t t y

1 1

12

15 1 S t a t e ?

from t h e lake.

One th ing w e would l i k e t o know i s whether you would

13

14

l i k e t o see t h e s e o b j e c t i v e s achieved by means of t h e new

c o n t r o l s t r u c t u r e . A r e t hese s t i l l t h e o b j e c t i v e s of t h e

l 8 1 MR. SPENCER: The purposes t h a t you l i s t e d a r e ,

16

17

19 I indeed, purposes for which the structure would serve, albeit

J O H N SPENCER, having been sworn on oa th , did Department of Ecology, t e s t i f y a s follows: S t a t e of Washington

20 I f o r f lood c o n t r o l it i s a minor cons idera t idn because during

21 1 f looding t h e s t r u c t u r e would simply not be adequate t o

IS I condi t ions t o be a b l e t o accomplish s to rage of approximately

22

23

24



(509) 448-8487

provide s to rage t o provide any p ro tec t ion . \

The mat ter of providing water f o r i r r i g a t i o n i s . o n l y

a mat ter t h a t r e l a t e s t o t h e a b i l i t y under c e r t a i n drought

10 SPENCER

14,000 acre- fee t . That i s an es t ima te a s t o t h e ac re - fee t

t h a t two and a h a l f f e e t of drawdown from 913 t o 910 and a

ha l f would provide.

The mat ter of providing f o r in-stream flows i s f o r

p ro tec t ion of t h e f i s h e r i e s , anadromous f i s h e r i e s migrat ion.

L e t ne explain. When you t a l k about t h i s s t o r a g e water

and t h e in-stream flows, c e r t a i n l y those have t o be taken

together because on t h e American s i d e t h e r e i s a s u b s t a n t i a l

amount of i r r i g a t i o n and t h e d i v e r t e r s , t hedd ive r t water f o r I

i r r i g a t i o n . have some r e s p o n s i b i l i t y and some condi t ions

under which they have t o reduce t h e i r d ive r s ions t o p r o t e c t

t h e minimum flows i n t h e r i v e r f o r f i s h e r i e s . So during a

drought year condi t ion one could say t h a t t h e s to rage w i l l

be used f i r s t t o p r o t e c t t h e minimum flows and, secondly,

t o provide water f o r supplemental o r f o r i r r i g a t i o n

purposes and you would accomplish t h e same th ing i f you

would reve r se t h a t and say you would use t h a t s to rage t o

m e e t t h e i r r i g a t i o n requirements and thereby no t i n t e r f e r e

with t h e n a t u r a l flow o r t h e accomplishment of t h e minimum

flow through t h e i r r i g a t i o n d ive r s ions .

There is a p r o j e c t going on i n t h i s v a l l e y t o upgrade

t h e ~ r o v i l l e - ~ o n a s k e t I r r i g a t i o n D i s t r i c t works and a s p a r t

of t h a t p r o j e c t they a r e p u t t i n g i n new pumping f a c i l i t i e s .

he^ w i l l be maintaining t h e i r d ive r s ion o u t of t h e

Similkameen River so t h a t during drouqht condi t ions they do



(509) 448-8467 11 SPENCER

have a back-up supply and w i l l no t be e n t i r e l y dependent

upon nor w i l l w e be p lac ing an extreme burden on Lake

Osoyoos t o provide f o r t h e i r requirements. But I th ink t h a t

I would l i k e t o add t o those purposes. I t i s no t c l e a r ,

a t l e a s t a s you s t a t e those purposes, t h a t t h e primary

purpose of t h a t dam i s t o maintain t h e l a k e l e v e l s , t o

p r o t e c t t h e l ake l e v e l s , and without a new dam, we a r e

c e r t a i n l y i n jeopardy of los ing t h e e x i s t i n g dam and no t

be accepted and development has occurred around a s e t of

1 being a b l e t o maintain t h e l ake l e v e l s which have come t o 1 l ake l e v e l s t h a t were e s t a b l i s h e d i n 1948, I be l i eve , and

t h e economy of t h i s a r e a is dependent t o a c e r t a i n degree

upon maintaining those l ake l e v e l s . So, t h a t i s t h e

primary purpose, t o e s t a b l i s h t h e l ake l e v e l . 1 MR. CHANDLER: I thought t h a t was c o r r e c t because

t h e r e w a s no provis ion i n t h e a p p l i c a t i o n f o r minimum flows

and th inking of our systems i n genera l it seemed t h e r e mighl

be t i m e s where l e v e l s would be such t h a t you could not have

a minimum flow o u t of t h e s t r u c t u r e . Is t h a t a r e a l i s t i c - - :

MR. SPENCER: I d o n ' t be l i eve our a p p l i c a t i o n is

an a p p l i c a t i o n f o r t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l J o i n t Commission t o

, a l l o c a t e water t o minimum flows o r t o i r r i g a t i o n o r

s to rage o r t o f lood con t ro l . C lea r ly , t h e s t r u c t u r e has

t h e c a p a b i l i t y of doing t h i s and t h e l i m i t a t i o n s a r e

based upon t h e l a k e l e v e l s t h a t w i l l be e s t ab l i shed a s p a r t



(509) 448-8487 1 2 SPENCER

of t h e order approving t h e cons t ruc t ion of a r e s e r v o i r -- o r , excuse me, t o cons t ruc t a dam.

To answer your ques t ion about a r e t h e r e s i t u a t i o n s when

t h e minimum flow would not be a b l e t o be maintained, I

t h i n k , yes , t h e r e probably a r e ' s i t u a t i o n s t h a t would occur

when you a r e i n t h e t h i r d year of a drought where you have

had two previous years and you a r e i n t h e t h i r d year of a

drought. There i s simply no t adequate water i n t h e bas in

t o maintain t h e minimum flows.

MR. CHANDLER: Tha t ' s very he lp fu l .

On t h e a l l o c a t i o n ques t ion , you a r e abso lu te ly c o r r e c t .

This Commission does not have j u r i s d i c t i o n t o a l l o c a t e any

of t h e trans-boundary flows t h a t a r e discussed i n t h e

Cooperation Plan. Tha t ' s an i s s u e t h a t a r i s e s under

A r t i c l e I1 of t h e Boundary Waters Treaty which permits t h e

upstream country complete c o n t r o l over those waters . So

anythins t h i s Commission.would say on t h a t would be in -

e f f e c t i v e .

MR. SPENCER: I th ink it would a l s o be worthwhile

t o note t h a t t h e Cooperation Plan i s n o t , i n any sense, a

formal agreement between t h e S t a t e of Washington and

.Br i t i sh Columbia. We have prepared it j o i n t l y and

cooperat ively. The S t a t e of Washington has agreed t o fol low

t h a t plan. The Province of B r i t i s h Columbia has agreed t o

follow t h a t p lan and, a s such, it does r ep resen t a



(MS) 448-8467 SPENCER

Cooperative plan but we recognize w e do not have the' l e g a l

a u t h o r i t y t o e n t e r i n t o any kind of formal agreement o t h e r

than those t h a t our f e d e r a l government might e n t e r i n t o .

MR. CHANDLER: The l a k e l e v e l s discussed i n t h e

Cooperation Plan , and refer t o those l a k e l e v e l s because

it gives us some suggestion of t h e type of condi t ions w e

might recommend t h a t our Commissioners p lace i n an o rde r of

approval, t h e l e v e l s r e f e r r e d t o , t h e 910.5 t o 913, a r e

those l e v e l s t h a t would o b t a i n p r i n c i p a l l y during t h e

i r r i g a t i o n - r e c r e a t i o n season?

MR. SPEKCER: The l a k e l e v e l s t h a t a r e i n our

a p p l i c a t i o n a r e -- f i r s t , l e t me say t h a t t h e i n t e n t of

those i s t h e l ake l e v e l a s gauged a t t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l

Gauging S t a t i o n on t h e l ake , and-911 i s t h e h i s t o r i c o r

accustomed l ake l e v e l t h a t has been achieved under t h e o l d

s t r u c t u r e and 9 1 1 i s t h e e l e v a t i o n t h a t would be r e t a i n e d

during t h e i r r i g a t i o n and r e c r e a t i o n season.

The 910 and a h a l f is t h e l e v e l t h a t would be allowed,

a s I understand it, during winter condi t ions . The('913

e leva t ion would be t h a t l e v e l t h a t would be a t t a i n e d under

condi t ions of drought, as defined i n ou r Cooperation Plan,

which a r e genera l ly est imated t o occur i n about bne o u t of

seven years .

b1R. CHANDLER: The purpose of t h e ques t ion i s , I

it i s not c l e a r from t h e a p p l i c a t i o n whether t h e l e v e l s



(509) 148-8487 1 4 SPENCER



(509) 448-8487 15 SPENCER

nonrecreation-irrigation period regarding l e v e l s ?

MR. SPENCER: Nbnrec?eation-irrigation --?

MR. CHANDLER: Say, t h i s time of year .

MR. SPENCER: I d o n ' t be l i eve we have a concern.

I would assume only under t h e drought condi t ions when you

would perhaps have r a i s e d t h e l e v e l of t h e l ake t b 913 and

during t h i s l a s t i r r i g a t i o n p a r t of t h e season, say t h e

l a s t i r r i g a t i o n of t h e perennia l crop, would you then s t a r t

drawing t h e l ake down i n order t o maintain t h e flows, t h e

minimum flows, because t h a t i s a l s o t h e t i m e of t h e year

t h e f i s h a r e migrat ing and a l s o t o be a b l e t o allow t h e

i r r i g a t i o n , t h e i r r i g a t o r s t o g e t - o n e l a s t douse of water

on t h e i r crops.

MR. CFANDLER: Okay. Thank you. One o t h e r

quest ion on l ake l e v e l s : There were two s ta tements i n

response regarding an upper l i m i t f o r t h e l a k e - b o t h s t a t i n g

t h a t 913 would-be a l i t t l e too high and t h e f looding of

some basements would occur arid 912 and a--half would be a

:.more appropriate--upper l i m i t .

1IR. SPENCER: ThJe do f e e l thefe- needs t o be some

refinement of those f i g u r e s and we a r e i n t e r e s t e d i n any

evidence o r information t h a t would show t h a t 913 would cause

f looding i n basements o r property damage. We would want t o

look a t t h a t and, i f necessarp, t h i s l ake l e v e l could be

adjus ted and should be ad jus ted so t h a t we haven ' t pu t



(509) 440-8467 16 SPENCER

ourse lves i n a p o s i t i o n of causing property damage.

We a l s o have a quest ion of t h e r e l a t i o n s h i p t h a t t h e

dam, t h e l e v e l a t t h e dam and t h e n i l lpond c u r r e n t l y and t h e

new loca t ion of t h e dam and what t h e e l eva t ion w i l l be i n t h e 8

l ake and w e need t o do some refinement t h e r e because it

appears t h a t because of t h e na tu re of t h e water,, t h e p i l i n g

up and so on, t h a t it i s n o t abso lu te ly c l e a r t h a t 911 a t

t h e dam w i l l c r e a t e a 9 1 1 a t t h e gauging s t a t i o n and s o w e

a r e going t o have t o do some more refinement on t h a t .

MR. CHANDLER: Tha t ' s t h e kind of information t h e

Commission w i l l be very i n t e r e s t e d i n deciding what type of

order of approval t o consider .

I\IR. SPENCER: I t w i l l no t be d i f f i c u l t t o o b t a i n

t h a t . We can provide t h a t working with our B r i t i s h Columbia

counterpar ts t o provide t h a t .

MR. CHANDLER: The a p p l i c a t i o n s t a t e s t h a t t h e new

con t ro l s t r u c t u r e w i l l inc lude f e a t u r e s d e s i r a b l e f o r t h e

cont ro l of m i l f o i l . Is t h e Commission being asked t o

approve t h a t a spec t of t h e c o n t r o l works?

MR. SPENCER: To t h e e x t e n t t h a t t h e concept a s

submitted by t h e Corps of Engineers provides f o r a drawdown

c a p a b i l i t y , yes , t h e Commission i s being asked t o approve

t h a t as' p a r t of t h e concept plan.

MR. CHANDLER: So t h e S t a t e of-washington consider:;

t h a t a p a r t of t h e works themselves, a s p a r t of t h e o v e r a l l



(509) 448-8481 17 SPENCER

p r o j e c t ?

MR. SPENCER: That i s with r e s p e c t t o t h e ga tes

and t h e s t r u c t u r a l f e a t u r e s of t h e dam t h a t allow drawdown,

yes.

MR. CHANDLER: It i s my understanding t h a t t h e

m i l f o i l c o n t r o l por t ion would be somewhere downstream near

where Zosel Dam is now.

MR. SPENCER: Yes, I th ink t h a t i s something e l s e

we want t o provide more information t o t h e Commission on. It

appears t h a t t,he screening down below t h e dam f o r m i l f o i l - -

fragments i s probably unnecessary now. .Unfortunately, we % - -

had a t one t i m e ' f e l t w e had a prevent ive program on Lake

Osoyoos t h a t would prevent m i l f o i l from e n t e r i n g i n t o t h e

lower Okanogan and en te r ing t h e Columbia River and t h e

screening has taken place. , I t has not been successfu l .

There i s m i l f o i l i n t h e lower Okanogan. There a r e many

colonies of m i l f o i l i n t h e Columbia River r e s e r v o i r s . To

put f u r t h e r screening i n a t t h i s t i m e o r t o cont inue

screening a t t h i s time would seem t o be a f r u i t l e s s e f f o r t .

MR. CHANDLER: D o t hese f e a t u r e s f o r m i l f o i l contrcl

have any e f f e c t on t h e passage of f i s h , e i t h e r upstream o r

downstream?

M R . SPENCER: ~ ~ a i n ^ , Z doubt w e would be p u t t i n g

i n t h e screen bu t i f they were i n , t h e r e is no quest ion we

would have t o make provis ions so we would no t i n t e r f e r e with



(509) 448-8487

L

18 SPENCER

t h e f i s h passage. Generally t h e screens do no t go t o t h e

bottom of t h e r i v e r and t h e f i s h passage -- and they a r e

a l s o very small s o t h a t you would no t , i n e f f e c t , have a

g i l l n e t the re . You would no t be i n t e r f e r i n g with t h e f i s h .

They would f i n d t h e i r way around i t and under it. I doubt

t h i s w i l l be a cons idera t ion and t h i s should be c l a r i f i e d

bu t I doubt w e w i l l proceed with screening a t a l l .

MR. CHANDLER: The a p p l i c a t i o n a l s o s t a t e s t h e

r e l o c a t i o n of Tonasket Creek a s a-roposal f o r new

con t ro l s t r u c t u r e , Would you e l a b o r a t e on t h a t .

MR. SPENCER: Tonasket Creek has t h e nas ty h a b i t

of discharging l a r g e loads pf sediment which have c r e a t e d - a

bar o r d e l t a which has then caused a back up of water and

under t h e p resen t s i t u a t i o n where Tonasket Creek i s upstream

from t h e e x i s t i n g dam, i n i t s e l f becomes a t t imes a l ake

l e v e l determinate.

The new concept, of course, l o c a t e s t h e dam upstream

of Tonasket Creek bu t a t t h e same t i n e it w i l l be use fu l

t o r e l o c a t e Tonasket Creek i n t o an o l d oxbow of t h e

Okanogan River and use t h a t oxbow a s a s e t t l i n g b a s i n i n

o rde r t o keep t h e bedload o u t of t h e Okanogan River and

causing any f u r t h e r back up of water a t t h e dam.

MR. CHANDLER: So you consider t h i s r e l o c a t i o n

a s p a r t of t h e o v e r a l l p r o j e c t t o b e t t e r c o n t r o l l ake levels: '

, Pa. SPENCER: Yes.



(509) 4488467 1 9 SPENCER

MR. CHANDLER: When was t h e c r i t e r o n f o r drawdown

changed from 906 t o 909? Your s tatement i n r e p l y was t h a t

it d i d n ' t s e e m c o s t e f f e c t i v e t o do t h a t .

YR. SPENCER: Steve, perhaps you can answer t h a t .

STEVE MITCHELL, having been sworn on oa th , d id Department of Ecology, t e s t i f y a s follorvs: S t a t e of Washington

MR. NITCHELL: The Gorp of Engineers ' o r i g i n a l

plan had t h e drawdown, a s you s a i d , a t 9 0 6 . I n our study

with t h e Canadians and so f o r t h , t h e main reason f o r t h a t

was t o c o n t r o l m i l f o i l , draw it a l l t h e way down, t h e water

l e v e l , and then perhaps use some kind of f r eez ing , during

t h e winter pe t t h e f r eez ing condi t ions t ake over and c o n t r o l

m i l f o i l .

We s t i l l i n our design have t h a t c a p a b i l i t y but it i s

not i n j u s t normal opera t ing condi t ions because t h e o r i g i n a l

p lan we j u s t r e a l l y d o n ' t r e a l i z e -- o r we d o n ' t know f o r

s u r e whether t h a t would be v iab le . We need t o look a t t h i s

and s tudy it, but t h e a c t u a l design w i l l al low t h a t . The

way we have it in the application will'allow the water'level

t o be drawn down t o 906.

I n add i t ion t o t h a t i n our d i scuss ions and so f o r t h

w i t h B r i t i s h Columbia o f f i c i a l s we r e a l i z e d t h a t t o draw

t h e l a k e l e v e l down t o ---- 906 i n 4 Canada, w e would need, a s

John Spencer mentioned before , we would need apprec iable

;dredging e s p e c i a l l y i n t h e v i c i n i t y of Haynes Poin t and


S. 5107, PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203

(509) 4468487 20 MITCHELL

s u r e a t t h i s t i m e . This i s t h e reason w e r a i s e it t o 911.

MR. CHANDLER: Thank you. A couple o t h e r ques t ion

What i s t h e p ro jec t ed t i m e t a b l e f o r cons t ruc t ion? The

reason why I ask i s t h e Commission i n r e c e n t yea r s has p u t

1

i n o r d e r s o r approval a cond i t ion t h a t whatever is approved

be s u b s t a n t i a l l y complete wi th in a c e r t a i n s p e c i f i e d per iod

of t ime s o w e d o n ' t run i n t o o t h e r d i f f i c u l t i e s .

MR. SPENCER: The S t a t e of Washington has a budget

r eques t i n f o r i t s l e g i s l a t u r e i n January f o r our s h a r e of

t h e c a p i t a l cost , :our sha re being 50 pe rcen t of t h e c a p i t a l

c'dst and w e a r e ask ing f o r an appropr i a t ion of bond funds

which w e r e approved by t h e v o t e r s l a s t November f o r water

supply f a c i l i t i e s , s o t h a t t h e f inanc ing i s t h e r e . W e need

an appropr i a t ion from our l e g i s l a t u r e , t h e r e q u e s t t o be

submitted t o t h e l e g i s l a t u r e i n January.

I f w e r e c e i v e approval of t h a t r eques t , w e w i l l be a b l e

whether t h a t would be c o s t e f f e c t i v e o r n o t , w e a r e n o t . -1

t o s t a r t design i n t h e s p r i n g perhaps a s e a r l y a s June of

-1982. A t t h a t t i m e w e w i l l e n t e r an agreement wi th B r i t i s h

Columbia f o r t h e j o i n t paying of t h e design c o s t s and w e

would.expect des ign t o t a k e perhaps s i x months: SO,

o p t i m i s t i c a l l y , w e would have design done by January of 1983

and then w e would begin p repa ra t ion t o s t a r t c o n s t r u c t i o n s o

t h a t w e could look a t a cons t ruc t ion schedule of anywhere

from a s t a r t up of May o r June of ' 3 3 t o completion i n



(509) 4468487 2 1 SPENCER

(November of ' 8 3 . We have a r a t h e r broad cons t ruc t ion t i m e

per iod es t ab l i shed here because we want t o t ake i n t o account

i n t h e cons t ruc t ion , one, no t i n t e r f e r i n g with t h e

anadromous f i s h runs and, two, t h e water flow l e v e l . We

don ' t want t o be cons t ruc t ing i f , i n f a c t , t h e r e i s going

t o be a l a r g e r e l e a s e of water because of s to rage changes

i n t h e upper Okanogan. Of course, w e have t o be aware of

o the r cons t ruc t ion l i m i t a t i o n s such a s f reez ing condi t ions

and o the r weather condi t ions , i f snow i s s t i l l on t h e ground

and s o on. So we have t h i s r a t h e r broad window t o do

cons t ruc t ion wi th in from, say, &lay o r June ' 8 3 t o November

' 8 3 b u t t h a t ' s roughly our schedule.

MR. CHANDLER: Thank you. J u s t orie o t h e r genera l

ques t ion . This g e t s back t o t h e Cooperation Plan and t h e

r e l a t i o n s h i p between it and t h e app l i ca t ion . \ToAyhat e x t e n t

_shou ld khe Commission look t o t h e Cooperation Plan f o r

guidance i n t r y i n g t o determine what types of condi t ions t o

'set i n an o rde r of approval should t h e p r o j e c t be approved?

MR. SPENCER: Cer ta in ly t h e Commission i s looking

a t the' Cooperation Plan as evidence t h a t t h e s t r u c t u r e w i l l

be operated t o maintain t h e l ake l e v e l s and understand how

t h e mechanics of t h a t w i l l be accomplished. I th ink beyond

t h a t , then, t h e Commission ought t o be looking only a t t h e

approval of t h e s t r u c t u r e i t s e l f , a s t o whether it meets

t h e needs a s f a r a s maintaining those l ake l e v e l s and a l s o

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporter: Inc.


(509) 448-8487

s e t t i n g those l ake l e v e l s i n t h e o rde r which, i n m y estima-

t i o n , would- r ep lace t h e previous o rde r s of t h e Commission ,,-- t h a t have s e t maximum lake l e v e l s .

I d o n ' t be l i eve and t h e S t a t e of Washington's p o s i t i o n

i s t h a t t h e order approving t h e cons t ruc t ion of t h e d&n

should no t inc lude any provis ions dea l ing with trans-border

flows o r use of t h e dam f o r s to rage and subsequent use of

t h a t s to red water. FJe f e e l t h a t t h e c o n s t r a i n t s t h a t t h e

Commission would pu t on t h e dam i n terms of maintaining

t h e l ake l e v e l s during various per iods of t h e year would be

adequate t o r ep resen t t h e i n t e r n a t i o n a l i n t e r e s t s . t h a t w e a re

dea l ing with here.

CHANDLER: Thanlc you very much, Plr. Chairman.

That is a l l t h a t I have. M r . Wex may have some ques t ions .

SAYUEL WEX, Legal Adviser, Canadian Sect ion , I J C

NR. WEX: Maybe t o j u s t ca r ry on on t h a t l a s t

po in t a l i t t l e b i t , we have a s t r u c t u r e t h a t you wish t o

b u i l d t h a t would have t h e phys ica l c a p a b i l i t y t o g ive

e f f e c t t o t h e plan. You a r e asking t h e Commission t o look

a t c e r t a i n a spec t s of t h e p lan , namely t h e l e v e l s , and t o

d is regard t h e flow quest ion. And t h e f u r t h e r p o i n t you h ive

made i s t h a t , i n any event , t h i s i s no t a binding aqreement

between t h e S t a t e and t h e Province because it would be

beyond t h e l e g a l powers of t h e S t a t e and t h e Province t o



(509) 4468467 23 WEX

I e n t e r i n t o such an agreement. I b e l i e v e t h a t is what I hear

you t o say.

MR. SPENCER: h hat ' s. r i g h t .

MR. WEX: And I would assume from t h a t t h e S t a t e

and t h e Province would p r e f e r t h e fed-era1 a u t h o r i t i e s n o t

' e n t e r i n t o a formal agreement t o g i v e e f f e c t t o t h i s p lan .

MR. SPENCER: T h a t ' s c o r r e c t .

MR. WEX: That l eaves u s i n perhaps a s i t u a t i o n

where t h e S t a t e and t h e Province p r e f e r n o t t o have a

b ind ing agreement because they do n o t wish t o go t o t h e

f e d e r a l a u t h o r i t i e s . They p r e f e r t o l e a v e it somewhat

ambiguous and on a b e s t e f f o r t o r good f a i t h unders tanding.

Rea l iz ing t h a t t h e Cornmissionfs r e s p o n s i b i l i t y , i f it

i s t o p r o t e c t i n t e r e s t s upstream from t h e p r o j e c t i n t h e

o t h e r coun t ry , i n t h i s case i n Canada, would be t o se t

l e v e l s t h a t would p r o t e c t t h e i n t e r e s t s i n t h a t coun t ry ,

s o t h a t w e a r e on ly concerned wi th t h e s e t t i n g of a range

'910.5 t o 913, i f w e d o n ' t have o t h e r evidence t h a t

c o n s t i t u t e s a problem, keeping t h e l a k e ,within t h o s e l e v e l s

i n t h e drought y e a r w'uld be t h e p r o t e c t i o n t h a t you, from

your d i s c u s s i o n s wi th B r i t i s h Columbia, b e l i e v e would

:p ro t ec t t h e i n t e r e s t s adequa te ly i n Canada. That is your

unders tanding from your d i s c u s s i o n s w i t h B.C. ; would t h a t be

f a i r ?

MR. SPENCER: T h a t ' s f a i r b u t I t h i n k it may be


S. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 -

(509) 4468467 24 SPENCER

o v e r s t a t i n g t h e , case. Where t h e impl ica t ion i s t h e r e i s no

t r u e i n t e r e s t i n p ro tec t ing such th ings a s minimum flows i n

t h e r i v e r f o r f i s h e r i e s purpose, t h a t they a r e loose ly

p ro tec ted , t h a t t h e r e i s no i n t e r e s t i n f lood c o n t r o l o r

p ro tec t ion o r t h a t t h e r e i s some s o r t of ambiguous de te rn ina -

t i o n of how much of t h a t water can be used f o r i r r i g a t i o n

versus o t h e r purposes and t h i s i s not t r u e .

The S t a t e of Washington has e s t a b l i s h e d minimum flows

f o r t h e Okanogan River and those minimum flows a r e binding

on junior w a t e r r i g h t holders and t h e new p r o j e c t t h a t w i l l

be going i n t h e r e is s u b j e c t t o a t t a i n i n g those minimum

flows. They have back up supplemental water from t h e

Sirnilkameen River i n drought yea r s so they w i l l not i n t e r -

f e r e with those minimum flows and t h e s to rage i s f o r t h e

purpose of maintaining t h e minimum flows and p r o t e c t i n g ,

again, t h e i r r i g a t e d l ands , p a r t i c u l a r l y t h e pe renn ia l croys

which without water could s u f f e r permanent damage, and t h a t

a l l cones under t h e s t a t e water r i g h t law. Our minimum flow;

i n t h e S t a t e of Washington c o n s t i t u t e a water r i g h t j u s t a s

a d ivers ionary r i g h t does, o r j u s t a s a d ivers ionary r i g h t ,

so we do f e e l -- CHAIRI4Af.J PlcEWEN: Could you speak up a little.

Some i n t h e back a r e having t r o u b l e hearing.

14R. SPENCER: We do f e e l t h a t under s t a t e law

which according t o a t l e a s t United S t a t e s government


5. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203

(50s) 448-8467 SPENCER

p o l i c i e s and laws t h a t th'e i n t e r e s t s a r e being pro tec ted i n

,our p a r t , i n our s i d e of t h e border.

MR. WEX: Sure, and it wasn ' t my i n t e n t i o n i n any

way t o quest ion what t h e S t a t e of Washington on i t s s i d e of

t h e border with i t s water would be doing.

?!R. SPENCER: Your conclusion i s c o r r e c t .

XR. VEX: We a r e only d i scuss ing t h e t rans-border

o r trans-boundary s i t u a t i o n .

IV,. SPENCER: Yes.

MR. WEX: So t h a t i n order t o g ive e f f e c t , now,

t o t h e plan and t h e minimum flows t h a t you envisage, l e t ' s

say i n t h e f i r s t two drought yea r s , no t t h e t h i r d , is i t you

understanding t h a t perhaps a d d i t i o n a l waters t h a t have been

passed over t h e l a s t 50 years -- l e t ' s say from t h e time

Zosel Dam was f i r s t b u i l t -- t h a t it would be necessary t o

pass a d d i t i o n a l waters down t h e system i n o rde r t o g ive

e f f e c t t o t h e Cooperation Plan?

MR. SPENCER: During t h e f i rs t two yea r s of t h e

drought t h e understanding is t h a t t h e r e w i l l be 1 0 0 cfs

coming i n t o t h e system, i n t o t h e l ake , as a minimum and t o

t h e e x t e n t thacwe can s t o r e t h a t up t o 913 s o t h a t i n t h e

f i n a l per iod of any drought t h i s t i m e of t h e year you could

maintain flows and d ive r s ions a t some adequate l e v e l .

During t h e t h i r d year of t h e drought it i s our understanding

t h a t t h e Cooperation Plan does not provide f o r any



(509) 4468487 26 SPENCER

guarantees of any water or any flows, particular flows

coming into the system.

MR. WEX: But in the first two years it is your

understanding that there is -- MR. SPENCER: 1.00 cfs is expected as a minimum-.

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: Mr. Wex, could I interrupt for

a moment. First, a question to Mr. Moos, Mr. Spencer and

Mr. Mitchell. You gentlemen will be with us this afternoon

in Osoyoos? L

RESPONSE IN UNISON: Yes.

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: Could I suggest we might

reserve on further questioning by counsel because I am

a little concerned and I am sure fellow Commissioners share

it. We have, I believe, eight cards that I have received

of people who wish to testify and we must meet that

schedule and conclude here not later than quarter to 12:OO.

Yes, Mr. Chandler?

MR. CHANDLER: Mr. Chairman, I might also suggest

the applicant may wish to listen to the other testimony that

takes place during the day and perhaps at some appropriate

time near the end of this afternoon's hearing nay wish to

respond to certain issues that may have arisen.

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: Yes. There may be questions

raised to which we will have to have your response.

The Chair at this time would like to warmly welcome the

- CAROL L. DEWEY

Court Reporter, Inc. S. 5107 PERRY

SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 (M9) 448-8467

presence here of the International Osoyoos Lake Board of

Control, first, Charles Collier of the United States -- would you identify yourselves -- Gordon Tofte of Canada, Peter Brady and Kris Kauffman.

Gentlemen, did you care to make a statement at this

time?

MR. COLLIER: Yes, we would be happy to make a

statement.

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: Mr. Collier is the U.S. Co-

Chairman of the Board.

CHARLES COLLIER, havinq been sworn on Co-Chairman, International oath, did testify ,as Osoyoos Lake Board of Control, follows : (District Chief, United States Geological Survey)

MR. COLLIER: P 4 r . Chairman and Commissioners, the

International Osoyoos Lake Board of Control is pleased to

present a brief statement at this hearing. We will review

the history of Zosel Dam, discuss its present condition, and

comment briefly on the application by the State of FJashinqto:l

I would first like to introduce the members of the

International Osoyoos Lake Board of Control: Mr. Gordon

Tofte, Regional Chief, Water Resources Branch of Inland

Waters Directorate, Pacific and Yukon Region and Chairman

of the Canadian Section of the Board; and Mr. Peter Brady,

Director, Water Management Branch, Ministry of Environment,

Province of British Columbia, member of the Canadian



(509) 448-8467 28 COLLIER

Sect ion. Member of t h e United S t a t e s Sect ion of t h e Board

is M r . K r i s Kauffman, Chief Engineer Washington S t a t e

Department of Parks and Recreation, and myself ,

M r . Charles R. C o l l i e r , D i s t r i c t Chief , United S t a t e s

Geological Survey, Washington, Chairman of t h e United

S t a t e s Sect ion. We have two a d d i t i o n a l members, M r . E . W .

Clark, Regional Direc tor , Inland Waters Di rec to ra te ,

Environment Canada, who i s another member of t h e Canadian

Sect ion , and Colonel Hintz, D i s t r i c t Engineer, S e a t t l e

D i s t r i c t , U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, another member of

t h e United S t a t e s Sec t ion , who a r e no t p resen t today.

Colonel Hintz i s represented today by 14.r. Richard

t4cLaughlin. Dick i s Chief of t h e Water Control Sec t ion f o r

t h e S e a t t l e D i s t r i c t .

Zosel Dam i s a timber c r i b , r o c k - f i l l e d , and concrete

s t r u c t u r e loca ted about 1 . 7 mi les downstream from t h e out -

l e t of Osoyoos Lake. The d m was b u i l t i n 1927 by

W i l l i a m Zosel under Reservoir Permit N o . 5 4 issued

November 18, 1 9 2 6 by t h e Washington S t a t e Supervisor of

Hydraulics, Olympia, Washington (now Washington S t a t e

Department of Ecology). I t was o r i g i n a l l y cons t ruc ted a s a

rock- f i l l ed timber c r i b and p i l i n a dam wi th a top l eng th of

1 9 0 f e e t , a bottom leng th of 76 f e e t , a top width of 1 2 f e e t .

and with a 3 t o 1 f r o n t s lope and a 2 t o 1 back s lope . The

est imated c o s t of t h e o r i g i n a l s t r u c t u r e was $2,500. The

I CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporter, Inc.


(509) 44,8487 29 COLLIER

dam was built to create a millpond with a capacity of 126

acre-feet, for impounding saw logs. It is interesting to

note that in the'Permit no mention is made of Osoyoos Lake.

However, it became apparent that the dam did effect the

level of Osoyoos Lake, particularly at flood stages, and the

matter was referred to the International Joint Commission.

In response to an application of the State of

Washington dated September 26, 1942, the International

Joint Commission held hearings at Penticton, B.C. and

appointed a special Board of Engineers to study the problem

of backwater in Osoyoos Lake. At its semi-annual meeting on

April 1, 1946, the IJC accepted the '~oard of Engineers '

report and, following public hearings at Osoyoos, B.C. and

Oroville, Washington issued the order of September 12,

1946 which is in effect today. The order, based on the

Board of Engineers' report and on the testimony at the

hearings included the following five sections:

Section 1 required structural alterations of Zosel Dam

so that it would have sufficient outlet capacity that at

millpond elevation of 911 feet, 1929 U.S. datum, would not

be exceeded while discharging up to 2,500 cubic feet per

second.

Section 2 required that Mr. ~illiam Zosel prepare

plans for these alterations and submit them to the

2s Commission for approval. The alterations were completed

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporter, Inc

S. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE WASHINGTON 99203

(509) 4468487 30 COLLIER

in 1948.

Section 3 established the International Osoyoos Lake

Board of Control to insure the carrying out of the provisions

of the Order. The Board now consists of six members, two

each from the engineering services of the Governments of

Canada and the United States, and one each from the Province

of British Columbia and the State of Washington.

Section 4 required that the alteration and maintenance

of Zosel Dam be carried out by the owner under the general

supervision of the Board and the approval of the Commission.

Section 5 reserved the right of the Commission to

amend the Order.

It should be emphasized that the current Order

specifies only the maximum elevation at the millpond behind

Zosel Dam and not the maximum level of Osoyoos Lake. The

lake level has at times exceeded the millpond level at

Zosel Dam by more than 2.0 feet.

The Order also recognizes that under certain conditions

the millpond elevation at Zosel Dam of 911.00 feet would be

exceeded. This may occur when inflow to the millpond

exceeds 2,500 cubic feet per second or when backwater

conditions from the Similkameen River reduce the discharge

through the dam.

Tonasket Creek enters the Okanogan River 1.3 miles

downstream from Osoyoos Lake and 0.4 mile upstream from



(509) 448-6467 31 COLLIER

Zosel Dam. Although it has a drainage a r e a of only about I 60 square mi les , TpKasket-_ . - - Creek t r a n s p o r t s - a - s i g n i f i c a n t I load of sand and gravel during high flows. When t h e d i s -

charge and v e l o c i t y of t h e Okanogan River a r e too low t o

t r a n s p o r t t h i s sediment, t h e m a t e r i a l i s deposi ted t o form a I bar across t h e Okanogan River. 'Per iodic dredging i s

requi red t o prevent t h e bar from being t h e primary low-flow I c o n t r o l f o r t h e l e v e l of Osoyoos Lake r a t h e r than Zosel Dam.

Since issuance of t h e 1 9 4 6 Order 35 years ago, t h e

discharge capaci ty of Zosel Dam has been s i g n i f i c a n t l y

reduced. Fish ladders have been i n s t a l l e d i n t h e bays on

each end of t h e dam and one bay was f i l l e d t o maintain

i n t e g r i t y of t h e s t r u c t u r e . These modif icat ions have reduce

the- maximum discharge capaci ty a t mi l lpond-e levat ion 911.00 .

f e e t t o l e s s than 2,100 cubic f e e t per second. i During t h e sp r ing snowrnelt runoff most years , some I

v i o l a t i o n of t h e 911.00 f e e t e l e v a t i o n of t h e n i l l ~ o n d does

occur; however, t h e amounts a r e genera l ly minor, 0.01 t o

I 0.30 f o o t and l a s t i n g only f o r s h o r t per iods . I I n February 1979 t h e Oroville-Tonasket I r r i g a t i o n

I

D i s t r i c t assumed t h e r o u t i n e opera t ion of t h e dam. The

Board would l i k e t o t ake t h i s opportuni ty t o thank t h e

I r r i g a t i o n D i s t r i c t and p a r t i c u l a r l y i t s Secretary-Manager, I X r . Lowell F e l t , f o r t h e i r consc ient ious e f f o r t s and

cooperation i n t h i s t a sk . The S t a t e of Washington has



(509) w e 4 6 7 32 COLLIER

assumed r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r maintenance of t h e dam and has

a l s o been ins t rumenta l i n making pe r iod ic r e p a i r s . I n

August 1974, a 12-foot wide s e c t i o n f a i l e d and was repa i red

under supervis ion of t h e Washington S t a t e Department of

Ecology. In Apr i l 1978 a t t h e r eques t of t h e Commission

and Board of Control , t h e S e a t t l e ~ i s t r i c t , U.S. Army Corps

of Engineers inspected Zosel Dam f o r i t s s t r u c t u r a l in t eg -

r i t y . I t was i n extremely poor condi t ion and ex tens ive

temporary r e p a i r s were made under t h e supervis ion of t h e

Washington S t a t e Department of Ecology. These r e p a i r s

included:

1. Placing 900 cubic yards of coarse rock f i l l i n a

hole immediately below t h e dam.

2. Rebuilding t h e r i g h t sp i l lway g a t e and framework,

and f i l l i n g a hole under t h e bay.

3 . F i l l i n g t h e depression upstream and ad jacen t t o

the r i g h t embankment.

4 . Repairing r a i l i n g s i n walkway and extending them

on t h e r i g h t s i d e .

5 . Construct ing s u b s t a n t i a l diagnonal bracing a t

each bent on t h e timber stop-log s t r u c t u r e .

6. Placing r i p r a p upstream and downstream along t h e

r i g h t bank.

These temporary r e p a i r s w e r e completed i n March 1979,

inspected , and accepted by t h e Board of Control on May 11,

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporfer, Inc.


(509) 448-8487 3 3 COLLIER

1979. The Department of Ecology has ind ica ted t o t h e Board

of Control t h e S t a t e ' s i n t e n t t o maintain t h e short-term

i n t e g r i t y of t h e dam u n t i l such time a s a new c o n t r o l

s t r u c t u r e f o r Osoyoos Lake i s constructed. f

A t t h e hearing i n Orovi l le on September 1 4 , 1978, t h e

Commission asked t h e Board of Control t o provide a

conceptual p lan and c o s t e s t ima te f o r a c o n t r o l s t r u c t u r e t o

replace Zosel Dam. The S e a t t l e D i s t r i c t , U.S. Army Corps

of Engineers prepared t h e p lan f o r t h e Board. The p lan was

submitted t o t h e Commission on May 4 , 1979.

The S t a t e of Washington has , wi th r ev i s ion , adopted

t h i s p lan i n t h e i r Application f o r an Order of Approval,

da ted December 2 2 , 1980. This a p p l i c a t i o n i s t o cons t ruc t

a new c o n t r o l works f o r r egu la t ing t h e l e v e l of Osoyoos

Lake. Attached t o t h e Applicat ion f o r Information proposes

only i s a B r i t i s h Columbia Washington S t a t e Cooperation Plan

f o r Osoyoos Lake Levels and Trans-Border Flows.

The Board of Controls concurs t h a t t h e primary concern

i s Osoyoos Lake and regu la t ion should be based on t h e l ake

l e v e l r a t h e r than t h e millpond l e v e l . This cannot be

accomplished with t h e p resen t c o n t r o l s t r u c t u r e . ,The

a i f f e r e n c e i n - l e v e l s between Osoyoos Lake and t h e Zosel

inillpond is no t cons tant but v a r i e s according t o condi t ions

and flows i n t h e channel connecting them. Establishment of

d e s i r a b l e l i m i t s f o r Osoyoos Lake would be very b e n e f i c i a l .



(509) 448-8467 34 COLLIER

1 To accomblish this a structure such as that proposed by the

2 State of Washington must be constructed to replace Zosel Dam

I The International Osoyoos Lake Board of Control

4 1 considers that the existing dam built by William Zosel 5 should be replaced within the next three years. A new

6 structure would be a logical and feasible step towards

7 solving many of the water-level problems that have plagued

8 the area for a number of years. High water levels would be

9 / alleviated by an improved outlet capacity and outlet channel

l 3 I Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, we appreciate the

, 10 Low-level control would be facilitated and greater use of

14 1 opportunity to appear before the Commission today and to

I '

15 participate at these public hearings. I

16 Thank you. "7 ..'

1 1 the lake as a storage reservoir during severe droughts

12 would be possible.

C H A I ~ ~ ~ P J ;.lcEWEN: Thank you, Mr. Collier. \

Mr. Olson.

19 COMMISSIONER OLSON: As you probably know, most

20 of us are fairly new to these responsibilities as well and

21 one of the concerns 1 have is making sure that I understand

22 fully about the role and function of the Board of Control

23 1 that we have appointed is, and perhaps I would take an

24 I instance that happened and you might clear up my

2s 1 miconception or make sure I understand more fully,.


S. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 35 COLLIER

(509) 448-8467

The f i r s t paragraph of t h e o r d e r t h a t you mentioned

r e q u i r e s t h e d i scha rge c a p a c i t y of 2,500 cub ic f e e t pe r

second a t a c e r t a i n e l e v a t i o n .

Recently t h e r e was h igh w a t e r and I t h i n k t h e maximum

l e v e l s were exceeded f o r some 2 3 o r 24 days and it was I

determined then t h a t t h e d i s c h a r g e c a p a c i t y of t h a t

s t r u c t u r e was a t l e a s t 20 p e r c e n t less than what t h e I J C

o r d e r r e q u i r e d and s u p e r f i c i a l l y o r prima f a c i e , i n any

e v e n t , it appears t h a t t h e S t a t e o f Washington o r t h e

1 i r r i g a t i o n d i s t r i c t t h a t managed t h e dam e i t h e r never

provided adequate d i scha rqe c a p a c i t y i n t h e s t r u c t u r e o r

opera ted it s o a s t o n o t acccmplish t h a t maximum d i scha rqe .

NOW, I may be wrong on some o f a y t e c h n i c a l d a t a b u t

t h e r e w e r e o t h e r c o n s i d e r a t i o n s a s w e l l , t h e r e v e r s e f low

and upkeep and s o on t h a t c o n t r i b u t e d t o t h a t s i t u a t i o n .

But t h e f a c t I would l i k e t o d i r e c t your a t t e n t i o n t o , g iven

t h e exp res s n a t u r e of t h e o r d e r r e q u i r i n g t h a t d i s cha rge

c a p a c i t y and over t h e cou r se of something l i k e 20 y e a r s i t

never occurred; t h a t c a p a c i t y simply wasn ' t t h e r e .

Is t h a t t h e r e s p o n s i b i l i t y o f t h e ~ o a r d of Control t o

monitor t h a t s o r t of t h i n g and t h e n t h e subsequent q u e s t i o n ,

of course , i s no person came d i r e c t l y t o u s showing they had

s u f f e r e d damaae by t h o s e v i o l a t i o n s o f t h e o r d e r b u t I am

wondering i f t h e Board 'sees it as t h e i r r e s p o n s i b i l i t y t o see

i f anv damage does occur , n o t p u t t h e t o t a l onus on t h e -

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporter, InC.


4509) 448-8487

3 6 OLSON

p a r t i c u l a r person t o come forward.

I f you would speak t o t h a t .

MR. COLLIER: The r e s p o n s i b i l i t y of t h e Board i s

t o c a r r y ou t t h e Commission's order t o see t h a t it i s

c a r r i e d out .

When t h e r e p a i r s o r a l t e r a t i o n s w e r e completed i n 1 9 4 8 ,

t h e dam d i d pass t h e 2,500 c f s .

COPIPIISSIONER OLSON: Is t h a t opinion o r f i rm f a c t ?

NR. COLLIER: I be l i eve f i rm f a c t .

COMMISSIONER OLSON: And you a r e under oa th .

T1R. COLLIER: From t h e Board of Con t ro l ' s r e p o r t

when they accepted and approved t h e plan. Since then t h e dam,

of course, has d e t e r i o r a t e d . One bay had t o be completely

plugged t o keep t h e i n t e g r i t y of t h e dam, and t h e f i s h

l adders o r i g i n a l l y put i n so t h e panels could be removed

t o pass flow, those no longer can be removed, aga in , by

o l d age. So t h a t t h e capaci ty now has been reduced and

w e f e e l now t h a t t h e capaci ty i s probably down t o something

l e s s than 2,100.

COFIE-IISSIONER OLSON: . 2 , 0 1 9 , I be l i eve I have been

n o t i f i e d .

COLLIER: The o r i g i n a l order d i d allow 9 1 1

f e e t t o be exceeded under c e r t a i n condi t ions due t o back-

water condi t ions o r when t h e r e was g r e a t e r d ischarge coming

through than 2,500.

CAROL L. DEWEY Coun Reporter, Inc.


(508) 448-8487 37 COLLIER

COlIMISSIOMER OLSON: So, in effect, then what

happened was that the operator of the dam made certain

judgments as to the importance of the various requirements

and decided that to increase the discharge capacity, you

just take these out? I am sure that is perhaps over

simplistic but that is not a very difficult thing to do.

So there was a judgment there that was more important in

some fashion to do something other than maintain the

discharge capacity. You see the implication I am raising.

If that occurs, then I am just becoming very nervous that

if we accept the State of Washington's pro?osal that we

really ought not to take account of the multi-purpose nature

of the proposed dam, that we then delegate to someone else

what is primarily our responsibility which is the inplica-

tion of the case.

Thank you.

CIiAIELn4AIJ McEWEN: Mr. Collier, just to follow up

on that, the reduced capacity, discharge capacity of the dam.

was occasioned by repairs that were made to maintain the

structure.

?ax. COLLIER: That's correct, repairs.

CBAIZYIAN McEWEN: In other words, it wasn't a

conscious desire of your Board to reduce the capacity of

the outflow. It was simply to maintain this old and

deteriorating structure.



(509) 4488467 38 COLLIER

MR. COLLIER: Y e s .

CEAIIirIirJAEU' ?ICEWEN: And as a r e s u l t of those

repairs , you l o s t capaci ty?

MR. COLLIER: Y e s .

CHAIWAN PIcEIVEN: T h a n k you very m u c h . Do any

o the r C o m m i s s i o n e r s have ques t ions .

M r . T o t t e n .

COPOIISSIOMER TOTTEX: For m y o w n reference , w h a t

i s t h e l eve l of t h e lake r i g h t n o w ?

MR. COLLIEX: W e could m a k e a c a l l and f i n d o u t .

PIR. IilcPJEIi: 9 1 0 a l m o s t exac t ly .

COII?IISSIONER TOTTEN: T h e n a x i m u m discharge?

MR. COLLIER: A t t h e p r e s e n t t i m e ? S o m e t h i n q

less than 2 , 1 0 0 cfs.

COIVIISSIONER EEDARD: T h e l eve l yesterdav T~?as

w h a t ?

MR. SHEARDOIVIJ: 939.77. Y e are t w o i nches

d i f f e r e n t f r o m your reading d o w n here; i s t h a t correct?

14R. COLLIER: Y e s , t h a t i s a d i f f e r e n t d a t u m t han

the m i l l p o n d .

FIR. McNEIL: May I s o r t of m a k e a p o i n t here.

T h e r e are t w o d a t u r n i n t h i s lake. W e are qoing t o ge t

confused i f you d o n ' t 9et clear w h i c h d a t u m w e are t a l k i n g

about.

The 9 1 0 I spoke of i s U n i t e d S ta tes data. T h e

b



(509) 4468467 39 COLLIER

gentleman along t h e r e , 909.77, i s r e f e r r i n g t o Canadian

d a t a , The two f i g u r e s are w i t h i n t h r e e hundredths of each

o t h e r .

CHAIRT-IAN McEWEN: I t h i n k t h i s Commission would

a g r e e t h a t i s a l l t h e d i f f e r e n c e s between t h e United S t a t e s

and Canada could be reduced t o .33 of an inch , t h a t would

be reasonably , I t h i n k , accepted.

M r . McNeil, I seem t o have your ca rd nex t h e r e and

they a r e n o t i n any p a r t i c u l a r o r d e r t o t e s t i f y . Did you

wish t o t e s t i f y a t t h i s time?

MI?. ED167ARDS: Excuse m e , F r . Chairman. llIy name

i s Edwards and I am he re t o r e p r e s e n t t h e Province of

B r i t i s h Columbia.

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: Excuse m e , M r . Edwards.

MR. EDWARDS: I wonder, i n l i g h t of t h e s t a t emen t

you made e a r l i e r about t h e p o t e n t i a l t i m e d i f f i c u l t y , i f

B r i t i s h Columbia might d e f e r and nake a s t a t emen t t h i s

a f t e rnoon and a l low t h o s e l o c a l persons who miqht want t o

make a statement to do so.

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: That i s ve ry k ind o f you,

Mr. Edwards, t o make t h a t sugges t ion .

Do I have your card?

MR. EDWARDS: Y e s , I b e l i e v e so .

COtIMISSIOMER OLSON: You a r e n o t r e g i s t e r e d ; you

c a n ' t d e f e r .


S. St07 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203

(509) 448-8481 4 0 COLLIER

MR. EDWARDS: That makes it easy for everybody.

CHAIRMAN McEtJEN: I'm sorry. I have it right

here. That's fine. You will testify at Osoyoos.

The next card that comes to my hand is Mr. Dick Thayer,

Similkameen-Okanogan Flood Control and Reclamation League.

Mr. Thayer.

DICK THAYER, having been sworn on oath, did President, testify as follows: Similkameen-Okanogan Flood Control and Reclamation League,

MR. THAYER: As indicated, I represent as

President the Similkameen-Okanogan Flood Control and

Reclamation League and as such this is the testimony I

would like to present.

Our organization represents the communities within

the Okanogan River basin in the State of Washington. Since

1948 we have been keenly interested in flood control and

reclamation issues and have taken an active part in the

encouragement of flood control measures for Osoyoos Lake.

We support the proposed construction of a new control

works for regulating the levels of Osoyoos Lake, and for

maintenance of the lake level at 911.0 feet. We are

particularly interested in having the capacity to store

"water in the lake to 913.0'feet for use during periods of

extreme drought. The 2.5 feet.of water made available for

this purpose could under the right circumstances provide a



(509) 4468487 41 THAYER

tremendous economic benefit to the agricultural economy of

our area.

With these considerations in mind we support the sub-

mission to the International Joint Commission for an Order

of Approval pursuant to Article IV of the Boundary Waters

Treaty and urge a response to this application as soon as

practicable.

Thank you.

CHAIWAN McEWEN: Thank you very much, Mr. Thayer.

Do you have another copy there, -Nr. Thayer?

Elr. Thayer, one question. Would you accept 912.5?

MR. THAYER: If the State is amenable to that,

we would be, yes.

CHAIRIJlAN IlcEWEN: We have had some indication -- we may hear about that further today -- that that might alleviate some flooding problem.

COIJE~ISSIO?JER BULBN: Do vou know anything about

the economic interests to be served by the capturing of

this water, the commercial effect?

MR. THAYER: Well, was it three years ago, I

believe, when we had the possibility of a severe drought

situation occurring. There was considerable concern about

being able to irrigate the orchards and the orchards that

are served by the'oroville-Tonasket irrigation system which

comprised 10,000 acres of prime apple-producing orchards.



(508) 448-8487 42 THAYER

I f water had n o t been a v a i l a b l e f o r l a t e i r r i g a t i o n season,

it would have had a profound economic impact on o u r a p p l e

i n d u s t r y and o u r l o c a l economy and t h i s conceivably could

happen aga in . The c a p a b i l i t y of having t h e wate r t o

i r r i g a t e even one more t i m e l a t e i n t h e season could p r o t e c t

t h e economic va lue of t h e app le c rops and, t h e r e f o r e , it is

very v i t a l and very impor tan t t o have t h a t source of wate r

a v a i l a b l e and t h a t i s t h e on ly sou rce o f wate r t h a t would

be a v a i l a b l e under extreme drought c o n d i t i o n s .

CHAIRLVVN McEbIEN: A r e t h e r e any o t h e r q u e s t i o n s

from t h e Commissioners?

Thank you very much, M r . Thayer.

EIR. THAYER: Thank you f o r t h e o p p o r t u n i t y t o

t e s t i f y .

I CHAIRMAN McEWEN: M r . A r t Henderson.

ART HENDERSON, having been sworn on o a t h , d i d t e s t i f y a s fo l lows:

MR. HENDERSON: The on ly ques t ion i n mind --

19

20

CAROL L. DEWEY

eve ry th ing else i s p r e t t y well answered -- i s t h e r e any

oppor tun i ty f o r h y d r o e l e c t r i c from t h i s dam? T h a t ' s t h e on ly

21

22

23

24

25


SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 (509) 44,8487

ques t ion I have g o t t o ask .

COiW4ISSIONER BULEN: The S t a t e of Washington

might r e p l y .

MR. MITCHELL: Consider ing t h e e l e v a t i o n s , t h e

d i f f e r e n c e i n e l e v a t i o n s between t h e upstream and downstream

4 3 HENDERSO?!?

of t h e new proposed s t r u c t u r e which i s j u s t a f e w f e e t , w e

f e e l i n looking i n t o it t h a t t h e r e i s j u s t n o t t h a t

opportuni ty. However, a s we have s t a t e d i n our response

t o t h e Commission f o r t h e l e t t e r s t h a t w e -- during our

design, d e t a i l e d des igns , w e w i l l look f u r t h e r i n t o t h a t

and i f t h e r e i s t h e opportuni ty, w e w i l l consider it

se r ious ly .

MR. HENDERSON: Who makes t h e dec i s ion on t h a t ?

MR. MITCHELL: W e do.

CHAIRMAN McEWEK: Stan Por te r .

STAN PORTER, having been sworn on o a t h , d i d P a s t P res iden t , t e s t i f y a s follows: Orov i l l e Chamber of Commerce,

MR. PORTER: On behalf of t h e Orov i l l e Chamber

of Commerce, I would l i k e t o welcome you t o -- MR. CHANDLER: M r . Chairman.

CHAIRMAN McEWEN : Yes.

MR. CHANDLER: On t h e ques t ion of t h e hydro p l a n t ,

i f t h e S t a t e of Washington decides they wish t o use t h i s

con t ro l s t r u c t u r e f o r a hydro p l a n t , then I be l i eve they

would have t o come back t o us f o r a revised o rde r of

approval.

CI-iAIRI4AN McEWEN: Y e s .

Mr. P o r t e r , p l ease proceed.

IYR. PORTER: The Orov i l l e Chamber of Commerce

cont inues t o endorse t h e cooperation p lan between t h e S t a t e



(509) 448-8457 4 4 PORTER

1 of Washington, Department of Ecology and t h e Province of

2 I B r i t i s h Columbia, i '4inistry o f Environment f o r main ta in ing

3 accep tab le water l e v e l s i n Osoyoos Lake and r e g u l a t i n g t r a n s

4 border f lows from B r i t i s h Columbia i n t o Washington. W e f e e l I 5 t h i s p l an r e p r e s e n t s t h e b e s t i n t e r e s t s i n bo th c o u n t r i e s I 6 and suppor t an e a r l y c o n s t r u c t i o n o f a new l a k e c o n t r o l I 7 I s t r u c t u r e t o r e p l a c e t h e Zosel Dam, t h e r e l o c a t i o n o f

8 Tonasket Creek, and a new m i l f o i l b a r r i e r . I I 9 1 CHAIRMAN McEWEN: Thank you very much.

COMJIISSIOMER BULEN: Did you hea r t h e response

I 1 1 1 of t h e S t a t e of Washington t o t h e m i l f o i l b a r r i e r he re .

1IR. PORTER: Y e s .

COMMISSIONER BULEN: Do you have an o b s e r v a t i o n

I i 4 1 o t h e r t han t h a t you were suppor t ing it and now it may n o t be

I a p a r t of t h e p l an?

I 1 6 1 PIR. PORTER: W e a r e concerned t h a t m i l f o i l be

17 c o n t r o l l e d a s much as p o s s i b l e and i f t h e Department of

18 Ecology has a p r o ~ r a r n t h a t w i l l h e l p c o n t r o l t h a t , w e would

19 l i k e t o suppor t it.

20 COPllMISSIONER OLSON: But you would n o t i n c l u d e

t h e maintenance of t h e s c reen? A s M r . Bulen po in t ed o u t ,

it i s h i g h l y l i k e l y t h a t t h e s c reen ing w i l l n o t be p u t i n

I , place .

CO;.~IISSIONER 3ULZEJ: Is t h a t a f a i r c h a r a c t e r i z a -

I



(509) 448-8487 PORTER

NR. SPENCER: Y e s .

MR. PORTER: That it w i l l n o t be? Of course , w e

vould l i k e t o see it i n o u r communities b u t whether o r n o t

t h e S t a t e of Washington w i l l b e a b l e t o p u t it i n , t h a t i s

something over which w e have no c o n t r o l .

CO?IP.IISSIONER OLSON: The community has more power

than t h a t , I should have thought .

MR. PORTER: I d i d , t oo . W e would l i k e t o s e e

t h e m i l f o i l c o n t r o l and I am s u r e t h a t i s t r u e on bo th

s i d e s of t h e border i n bo th communities b u t whether o r n o t

t h i s can be accomplished by t h i s o r g a n i z a t i o n o r t h i s group,

I d o n ' t know.

CHAIRMAN IlcETilEN: M r , Spencer.

MR. SPENCER: The Washington S t a t e Department of

Ecology does prov ide funding f o r m i l f o i l c o n t r o l i n t h i s

a r e a . I t has inc luded t h e placement o f a b a r r i e r , s c r e e n ,

dur ing t h e s p r i n g through u n t i l about t h i s t i m e o f year .

The Okanogan County Department of Pub l i c Works has worked

wi th us i n p u t t i n g t h a t s c r e e n i n and w e have used o t h e r

l o c a l o r g a n i z a t i o n s t o h e l p main ta in it and I t h i n k a t t h i s

p o i n t a l l t h o s e p a r t i e s ag ree t h a t s c r een ing i s probably a

f r u i t l e s s and uneconomical endeavor because of t h e f a c t t h a t

t h e mi l ' f o i l has a l r e a d y invaded t h e lower Okanogan and i n t o

t h e Columbia and t o con t inue sc reen ing it would n o t be

u s e f u l a t a l l and I t h i n k S tan probably wasn ' t aware of t h e



(509) 448-8487 4 6 PORTER

CO~JIMISSIONER BULEN: Nor were we.

MR. SPENCER: I thought I explained t h a t . I am

4 so r ry i f I d i d n ' t .

5 COMMISSIONER OLSON: But no t i n t h e m a t e r i a l .

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: The screening was t o p r o t e c t I t h e lower Okanogan and Columbia system; r i g h t ? I

MR. SPENCER: W e were i n a p reven ta t ive program

and we have t h e screening i n p lace and we had proposed t o

put screening a s p a r t of cons t ruc t ion of a new dam but w e

11 I a r e no longer i n a p reven ta t ive program. I l2 1 C~YAIWIAN McEYEN: The screening , am I understandin

t h i s c o r ' r e c t l y , t h e screenirig d i d nothing t o he lp Osoyoos I Lake.

MR. SPENCER: No, sir.

CHAIRMAN McEWEM: I t was t o p r o t e c t t h e lower

Okanogan and Columbia.

MR. SPENCER: That i s r i g h t . I t d i d n ' t work

e i t h e r .

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: May I' suggest a t t h e hour of

1 1 : O O t h a t we a r e an hour l a t e on a co f fee break here . W e

have some cof fee provided i f you would c a r e t o jo in u s , and

then w e w i l l proceed t o t h e remaining witnesses .

(Brief r ecess i s taken. )

CHAIRMAN McEWEEJ: B i l l Dobbins. Is Xr. ~ o b b i n s

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reponer, Inc.


(509) 448-8467 4 7 PORTER

here.

MR. DOBBINS: Yes.

BILL DOBBINS, having been sworn on oa th , d id t e s t i f y a s follows:

MR. DOBBINS: The only th ing I wanted t o ask was

what was t h e p resen t l e v e l of t h e l ake and t h a t has a l ready

been brought o u t bu t I wondered why t h e minimum e l e v a t i o n

cou ldn ' t be he ld a l i t t l e higher . It would be much b e t t e r

f o r me. I have a boat house on t h e l ake and t h e 9 1 1 , I

would have t o dredge my channel p r e t t y o f t en .

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: What l e v e l would you p r e f e r ,

M r . Dobbins?

MR. DOBBINS: Another f o o t and a h a l f higher than

, r i g h t now would be, I th ink , acceptable t o me and t h a t would

be around 9 1 1 and a h a l f . That would be p r e t t y good. The

p resen t l e v e l i s 909 .77 which i s almost 10, see . Another

f o o t and a ha l f would s u i t m e a l o t b e t t e r . I would be happq*

t o have it.

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: Thank you, M r . Dobbins. I l i v e

on t h e S a i n t Lawrence River and w e have q u i t e a v a r i a t i o n

i n l e v e l s . That is another I J C Board bu t maybe I ~ ~ o u l d be

g e t t i n g i n t o a c o n f l i c t of i n t e r e s t i f I took t h a t up with

you. Sometimes t h e water i s over t h e dock and sometimes

t h e water i s where t h e r e i s n ' t water enough f o r t h e boat ,

so I apprec ia te your concern.



(509) 448-8467 4 8 DOBBINS

Douglas F r a s e r , Osoyoos Rural Ratepayers '

Assoc ia t ion .

MR. FRASER: W e w i l l speak i n Osoyoos t h i s

a f te rnoon .

CHAIRMAN McEMEN: Oh, you a r e from Osoyoos and

you want t o speak up t h e r e t h i s a f t e rnoon .

COMMISSIONER BULEN: You a l r e a d y submi t ted your

s ta tement ; d i d you n o t ?

MR. FRASER: Y e s .

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: I must apo loq ize . The McNeils I

a r e h e r e i n f o r c e . I mixed up two McNeils. Roger McNeil.

Is he here? W e l l , a ppa ren t ly he was.

M i s s C.C. McCurdy. ~ i s s McCurdy, I b e l i e v e t h e r e w a s

something you wanted t o t e l l us.

C.C. McCURDY, having Seen sworn on o a t h , d i d t e s t i f y a s fo l lows:

NISS 31cCURDY: I d o n ' t know who i s he re today ,

O r o v i l l e o r Tonasket , n o r t h o r s o u t h , e a s t o r w e s t , b u t

anybody who i s a f f e c t e d by t h e Similkameen River , t h e r e is

a sewage t r ea tmen t p l a n t going i n up a t Keremeos and

e v e n t u a l l y it i s going t o d r a i n i n t o t h e r i v e r .

CIIAIEVAN McElilEN: What comuni ty , I 'rn s o r r y ?

3iISS McCURDY: Keremeos, it i s about seven m i l e s

n o r t h of where I l i v e . I l i v e i n t h e Similkameen v a l l e y

about 10 m i l e s up from t h e border .

A

CAROL L. DEWEY Coun Reponer, Inc.


(509) 448-8467 4'9 McCURDY

nea r -- MISS McCURDY: Kererneos . CHAIRMAN McEWEN: V?hat was t h e p l a n t doing?

MISS NcCURDY: W e l l , t h ey are qoing t o have a

sewage t r ea tmen t p l a n t . They h a v e n ' t g o t t h e p l a n t i n y e t

b u t you people a r e going t o g e t t h e b e n e f i t of t h e d ra inage

from t h a t sewage p l a n t , 40 t o 6 0 , 0 0 0 g a l l o n s a day o r some-

t h i n g , more than t h a t , a r e going t o go through t h a t p l a n t

i f they g e t it running p rope r ly . Nothing is goinq t o be

1

2

3

pumped up on t h e bank, j u s t p u t through a p rocess . Then it

i s going t o e v e n t u a l l y d r a i n i n t o t h e r i v e r . I t c a n ' t h e l p

CBAIRMAN McEWEN: I n B r i t i s h Columbia?

MISS McCURDY: Y e s .

CHAIRMAN McEWEM: This sewage t r ea tmen t p l a n t i s

20 1 t o you dur ing o u r b r i e f b reak h e r e , M i s s McCurdy, t h i s I

IS

16

17

18

I

I 19

I 21 I hear ing i s on t h e Zosel Dam. I

it.

I came down h e r e e s p e c i a l l y t o a sk h e l p of you people

t o see i f something c o u l d n ' t be done t o s t o p t h a t p l a n t

g o i n g i n .

CHAImIAN McEWEN: W e l l , a s you know, I mentioned

'IISS McCURDY: I know t h a t i s what you a r e h e r e

23

24

f o r .

CHAIRMAN MCEWEN: ~ u t w e a p p r e c i a t e your

1 25 br ing ing t h i s up. There a r e r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s of v a r i o u s

CAROL L. DEWEY C O U ~ Reponer, Inc.

S. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 5 0. M c C U ~ Y

(509) 4468487

government agenc ie s h e r e t h a t w i l l l i s t e n t o you.

I a m j u s t c u r i o u s , I must s ay t h i s , does t h e community

now t h a t i s p u t t i n g i n t h i s sewage t r ea tmen t p l a n t , do t h e y

d i scha rge sewage now?

MISS McCURDY: They have a l l g o t s e p t i c t a n k s

now and t h e r i v e r wasn ' t t o o bad be fo re t h a t . I d o n ' t know

whether you know t h e count ry up t h e r e o r n o t , b u t t hey g o t

t h e i r d r ink ing water o u t of t h a t u n t i l about two y e a r s ago.

COf4MISSIONER OLSON: M i s s IlcCurdy , one o f t h e

t h i n g s I w a s going t o raise wi th t h e r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s of

B r i t i s h Columbia t h i s a f t e rnoon was t h e s t a t u s of t h e wa te r s

from t h e p o i n t of view o f p o l u t i o n and t h e gentleman from

B r i t i s h Columbia w i l l be speaking t h i s a f t e rnoon . H e

probably has in format ion f o r u s as t o t h e g e n e r a l s i t u a t i o n

on a l l t h e communities above t h e border .

A r e you going t o come t h i s a f t e rnoon?

PlISS McCURDY: I w i l l come t h i s a f t e rnoon .

COMMISSIONER OLSON: W e w i l l c e r t a i n l y pursue it

t h i s a f t e rnoon then .

MISS McCURDY: People a f f e c t e d by t h a t r i v e r may

n o t come t h i s a f t e rnoon , you see. I f t hey d o n ' t know about

it, they c a n ' t do anyth ing about it.

COMMISSIONER OLSON: P a r t of ou r r e s p o n s i b i l i t y

i s t o p r o t e c t t h o s e i n t e r e s t s .

MISS McCURDY: Anyway, I wish you would do



(509) 44,8487 51 McCURDY

something t o save t h e v a l l e y , n o t f o r m e -- I am an o ld

woman and I w i l l be gone i n l e s s than 10 yea r s -- but f o r

a l l t h e l i t t l e ch i ld ren coming along, teenagers , and every-

body. The r i v e r i s c lean now, one of t h e l a s t c l ean r i v e r s

i n Canada, E r i t i s h Columbia, t h e United S t a t e s , t h e

cont inent . W e a r e a l l here toge the r t o keep it clean. Look

a t t h e Fraser River. Get a copy of t h e October number of

t h e Reader's Digest . I t g ives a good d e s c r i p t i o n of what

t h e Fraser River i s now. W e d i d i t , t h e people of Canada

l e t it g e t t h a t way.

CO-MblISSIONER OLSON: W e a r e aware. We j u s t had a

look a t t h e Niagra River i n t h e e a s t . I

MISS P4cCURDY: Well, t h e Similkameen w i l l be t h e

same way i f w e donl ' t r i s e and sh ine . We should a l l he lp

a s ind iv idua l s and c o l l e c t i v e l y .

CHAIRMAN E4cEWEN : Thank you, M i s s E4cCurdy.

MISS McCUIIDY: Thanks f o r l e t t i n g me speak.

CEAIRmN McEWEN: M r . YcNeil.

MR. McNEIL: I d i d n ' t have anything t o say. I

should have marked t h a t a s a n observer .

CHAIRNAN ?ICEWEN: W e a r e glad t o have you with us.

Robert Edwards. M r . Edwards, would you l i k e t o t e s t i f y

here t h i s morning o r --?

MR. EDWARDS: I ind ica ted e a r l i e r we would do so

t h i s afternoon.



(509) 448-8487 5 2 McCURDY

CHAIRPIAN McEWEN: That i s c o r r e c t . Have I missed

anyone. I t h i n k a l l t h e c a r d s t h a t came h e r e t o t h e t a b l e ,

w e have gone through. Is t h e r e anyone e l s e who wished t o

t e s t i f y t h i s morning?

We do have a b i t of t ime remaining and i f anyone i n

t h e meantime r e c o n s i d e r s and wants t o -- ?IF,. PIOOS: M r . Chairman, we could respond t o t h e

l a k e l e v e l now and then r e i t e r a t e it l a t e r on t h i s a f t e rnoon .

CHAIIL"4PiII;J IlcEWEP.3: Very good and t h e r e nay be

o t h e r q u e s t i o n s and t h i s i s t h e t i m e now -- I say t h i s t o a l l

of you -- t h o s e who haven ' t t e s t i f i e d and d o n ' t d e s i r e t o

t e s t i f y b u t may have q u e s t i o n s t hey want t o a d d r e s s , t h i s

would be a good t i m e t o do t h a t .

MR. MOOS: W e a p p r e c i a t e t h e r e r a i s i n g of t h e i s s u e

on t h e l a k e l e v e l because t h i s was an i s s u e w e f e l t t h a t

w e we ren ' t e n t i r e l y c l e a r i n o u r advoca t ions and I would

l i k e t o have M r . Spencer add res s t h a t and maybe a suqges t ion

t o a l l e v i a t e t h a t man's problem and t h e p e o p l e ' s problem on

t h a t s u b j e c t .

CHAIIZPA-AN McEXJEPJ: Plr . Spencer , b e f o r e you respond,

w e do have one ques t ion .

MR. FRASER: Douglas F r a s e r . I n t h e case o f back

up cond i t i ons from t h e Similkameen a s i n ' 4 8 , w i l l t h e f l ood

waters make an end run around t h e dam and g e t back i n t o t h e

l a k e as they d i d i n ' 4 8 ?



(509) 448-8467

5 3 SPENCER

MR. SPENCER: I can respond to that.

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: Mr. Spencer, do you want to

respond to that?

MR. SPENCER: As we understand the operation of

the lake now through the gauging stations and the control of

it at the Zosel Dam, the 911 elevation at Zosel Dam sometime

means 912 in the lake and you can have a foot, half a foot

to a foot difference on the'lake level and, in fact, in the

last year that has resulted in 913 in the lake without

flooding and damages. The lake level in the application

that was made was lake level of 911 measured at the gauging

stations at the International border, not at Zosel Dam and

in reviewing the records, again, only in the last couple

weeks we looked at them again. We feel that there is a

need to clarify the lake level as far as the 911 because I

think there is an impression that over the years the lake

has been held 911 when, in fact, at the lake you may have

had a foot or half a foot difference and people may be

speaking about 911 and not realize they were experiencing

911 and a half, 912 or sometimes 913.

So, we would like the opportunity, I think, in the

future in further correspondence with the Commiss'ion and

the staff and in working with British Columbia to provide

very specific and detailed information on this including an

assessment of what the levels mean in terms of past



(509) 448-8467 54 SPENCER

experience, a c t u a l l e v e l s with a c t u a l experiences wi th

f looding and e f f e c t on t h e p r o p e r t i e s i n t h e a rea .

So we would l i k e t o c l a r i f y t h a t and provide t h e

Commission information s o t h a t you can make your dec i s ion

tak ing i n t o account people ' s concerns f o r f looding and

maybe more ease of access of boats and s o on. , ... .

The o t h e r po in t t h a t has t o be brought up i s t h a t t h e

l e v e l , f o r example t h e l ake i s a t today w i l l be a t t h i s

l e v e l o r perhaps even s l i g h t l y lower l e v e l s during t h e

winter . L I t i s necessary t o provide winter f r eez ing

p ro tec t ion f o r t h e docks a g a i n s t i c e and a l s o t o p r o t e c t

t h e Zosel Dam a g a i n s t f r eez ing and i c e condi t ions so t h a t

$ level it i s a t today and f u t u r e winter l e v e l s have t o t ake

i n t o account and have t o be allowed s o you can provide t h a t

kind of p ro tec t ion f o r wooden s t r u c t u r e s and o t h e r

s t r u c t u r e s i n t h e lake .

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: M r . F r a s e r ' s ques t ion i s when

t h e Similkameen i s a t f lood s t age w i l l t h e water back up?

MR. SPENCER: I th ink it should be understood

it i s ~ o s s i b l e . The Similkameen does flow upstream during

high f loods and t h a t means should you g e t a l a r g e enough

f lood you can g e t water backing up t h e Okanogan and it can ,

and it w i l l be poss ib le f o r it t o go over t h e dam. I n t h a t

case what w e have, then, i s a s i t u a t i o n where t h e

Similkameen, t h e flow i n t h e Similkameen i s a dam i n i t s e l f



(509) 4468487

55 SPENCER

f o r t h e w a t e r t h a t i s coming down o u t o f t h e Okanogan bas in .

I t w i l l no t provide f l ood p r o t e c t i o n under t h o s e k inds of

cond i t i ons . I t w i l l n o t e l i m i n a t e t h e damages t h a t would

occur under t h o s e k inds o f c o n d i t i o n s .

The dam w i l l be b u i l t such t h a t w e w i l l n o t have

s t r u c t u r a l damage t o t h e dam under t h o s e k inds of

cond i t i ons . ( W e d o n ' t want t h e dam t o go o u t o r end up w i t h

major r e p a i r s because of poor c o n s t r u c t i o n o r poor d e s i q n ,

knowing t h a t t h o s e k inds of e v e n t s do occur .

CI-IAIFUIAN McEWEN: J u s t a s t h e wate r -has backed

over t h e Zosel Dam?

FIR. SPENCER: Y e s .

CHAIRMMJ McEWEM: I t can a l s o under t h e same

c o n d i t i o n s back over t h e new f a c i l i t y ?

1IR. SFEPJCER: Y e s .

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: D r . C la rk , o u r h e a l t h o f f i c e r ,

made a sugges t ion and I an honoring i t , Doctor. To t h e

e x t e n t t h a t w e could resist n i c o t i n e f i t s , i f w e could

resist smoking, w e a r e r a t h e r conf ined.

MR. SPENCER: I f t h e wate r i s t n o t backing up ove r ,

t h e dam, i f you have your g a t e s on your dam open, l e t t i n g

water t h e o r e t i c a l l y f low downstream, and t h a t water then

encounte rs t h e f low coming upstream, t hen you have a dam

s i t u a t i o n whether you have a s t r u c t u r e t h e r e o r n o t and you

a r e going t o be g e t t i n g changes i n l a k e e l e v a t i o n even



(509) 448-8487 56 SPENCER

though -- COPNISSIONER BULEN: What happens t o t h a t r a i l r o a d

br idge when t h e Zosel Dam comes down?

MR. MITCHELL: There i s no p lan t o t ake it ou t .

MR. SPENCER: The new dam i s f u r t h e r upstream

from t h e o l d dam.

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: And t h a t wouldn't have any

adverse e f f e c t s on t h e r a i l r o a d br idge?

PIR. SPENCER: None. I apologize f o r no t having i t

here but t h e s h i f t of l o c a t i o n g o t u s behind schedule. We

w i l l have a l a r g e c h a r t t h i s af ternoon.

CHAIRPIAN McEWEN: The members of t h e Commission

have on-s i t e looked a t both t h e e x i s t i n g dam and t h e l o c a t i o n

of t h e new s t r u c t u r e .

M r . F rase r , does t h a t respond t o your ques t ion?

MR. FRASER: , Y e s . Thank you very much.

COMMISSIONER BULEN: W i l l we hear more about t h i s

basement f looding up a t Osoyoos?

MR. COLLIER:. Right.

COMMISSIONER BULEN: Apparently t h e r e was no

problem on t h e United S t a t e s s i d e .

CHAIFWAN McEWEN: Do you expect t o hear testimony

i n Osoyoos on t h e f looding problem?

MR. COLLIER: We d id have some testimony, I b e l i e v e ,

a couple yea r s ago.



(509) 448-8467

57 SPENCER .

COMMISSIONER BULEN: I t is s t i l l a concern t o t h e

c i t i z e n r y .

MR. COLLIER: A t 913, I be l i eve .

CHAIRMAN McEFIEN: A t l e v e l 913. W e have seen some

news s t o r i e s on t h e l o c a l concern s o I presume w e may s t i l l

hear t h a t .

MR. FRASER: I am not s u r e I heard your ques t ion

with regard t o basements.

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: I be l i eve it i s i n Osoyoos.

MR. FRASER: I t i s not a problem here.

CHAIPMN McEWEN: So probably a t t h e hearing t h i s

af ternoon we w i l l hear from somebody whose basement was

flooded.

Yes, s i r ?

MR. SHEARDOWN: Harry Sheardown from Osoyoos.

I am going t o resent a w r i t t e n b r i e f t h i s af ternoon t o lover

t h e lake t o 909.5.

CHAIRiMAIJ McEMEN: Because of t h e flooding?

MR. SHEARDOWN: Not because of t h e f looding. I

th ink someone should come and t e l l us how high t h e l ake was

l a s t summer , 4 0 o r 50 t i m e s i n my a rea . I n 1979 I be l i eve

you Americans kept t h e l ake a t a higher than normal l e v e l

and no one complained about it. I be l i eve it was mentioned

t h e r e and mentioned a t t h e co f fee t a b l e a l s o .

Something e l s e t o keep i n mind, l a s t year when you



(509) 448-8467 58 SHEARDOWN

f

c o u l d n ' t g e t 2,130 f e e t , t h e f low test a d v e r t i s e d a t 2,100

f e e t a second w e r e o u t a t t h e l a k e and t h a t ' s t h e same t i m e

a s t h e r a i n came and l a s t yea r h igh wate r , when it came

a long , it c l e a r e d up t h e g r a s s and l i t t l e trees t h a t w e r e

growing on t h e l a k e and I d o n ' t l i k e t h a t l a k e t o become a

pond a t 911 and I w a s g l a d you s a i d you would lower it down

i n t h e win te r t ime t o look a f t e r t h e s t r u c t u r e s t h e r e .

I would a l s o remind you t h a t s i x , e i g h t y e a r s -- s i n c e

t h e b i g f l ood -- 921 i s t h e l e v e l of t h e f l o o d p l a i n a t

Osoyoos. You have one down here . The e l e c t r i c a l t h i n g s a r e

no t less than t h a t . I f you keep it a t 911 e x a c t l y , w e w i l l

have people t h a t a r e encroached a t 911.5, t h e i r basements

w i l l be down t h e r e . I am n o t f a r wrong. J u s t s o w e can

go i n t o it, and an i d e a t h a t s i n c e -- I am going t o b r i n g

it up -- s i n c e October 25 t h e l a k e has n o t been above 910

f e e t and I d o n ' t know o f any complaints i n Osoyoos.

Why I a m b r i n g i n g t h i s up, i f w e set it a t a very narro-nr

range , w e w i l l have p e o ~ l e whose i n t a k e i s s e t f o r t h a t

ve ry narrow range; it w i l l be set t o w e l l s a long t h e l a k e

and a t c e r t a i n t i m e s you 5ave t o S r i n q it down t o k i l l t h e

weeds wi th f r o s t . I t i s a very s h o r t b r i e f coning I n t h i s

a f t e rnoon . I an a lonq- t i ne r e s i d e n t l a k e watcher. I have

l i v e d on t h e l a k e f o r 15 yea r s . Those a r e a few t h i n u s I

t h i n k o f . I f you set it a t 312 and it never goes h i g h e r ,

t h e lawns w i l l b e c l o s e r and t h e e l e c t r i c a l w i l l be b u i l t



(509) 448-8487

c l o s e r , t h e wood p i l e s w i l l be t h e r e . Everything w i l l f l o a t

away. I t h i n k we need t o f l u s h t h a t beach up and down s o

, w e can harrow t h e t h i n g s , g e t t h e weeds o u t , g e t t h e g l a s s

o u t . I d o n ' t t h i n k i t should become a pond.

CHAIRMAN McEWEN: Thank you ve ry much.

One q u e s t i o n , and it i s n o t , o f cou r se , a q u e s t i o n of

t h i s Commission t o g e t i n t o l o c a l f l o o d p l a i n zoning, b u t i s

t h e r e any -- I c a l l i t f l o o d p l a i n zoning -- i s t h e r e any

r e s t r i c t i o n s i n t h e Osoyoos a r e a on where people can b u i l d ?

MR. SHEARDOWN: Yes, it i s 921. I t i s c o n t r o l l e d

by t h e v i l l a g e and t h e e l e c t r i c a l a r e a a i d . W e have it and

o u r b u i l d i n g s a r e a t 921.

CHAIRIIAN McEWEN: A t 921, how deep a r e t h e base-

ments? ' Why do we g e t f l ood ing a t 913?

MR. SHEARDOWN: Some of t h o s e a r e o l d e r homes.

Lockie Miles , ou r a d m i n i s t r a t o r i n Osoyoos can answer t h a t .

CHAIFJIAN McEWEN: The gentleman i n t h e back.

MR. MILES: Lockie M i l e s , ~ f h i n i s t r a t i v e Agent

of Osoyoos. I w i l l be p r e s e n t i n g o u r v i l l a g e brief t h i s

a f te rnoon .

W e have ve ry s t r i c t f l o o d p l a i n zoning f o r t h e v i l l a g e

of Osoyoos and i n t h e r u r a l a r e a . Before w e a l low a home

t o be b u i l t , t h e l and must be e l e v a t e d t o a l e v e l of 917

and t h e home t h a t w i l l be b u i l t on t h a t l and must have t h e

unders ide of i t s f l o o r j o i s t s no lower t han 921. W e have


S. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE. WASMNGTON 99203

(509) 448-8487

taken, I th ink , t h e l e v e l of 916.8 which was t h e high l e v e l

of t h e 1972 f lood and i n o rde r t o guarantee everything w e

could, b a s i c a l l y f o r wind and wave a c t i o n , w e added four

f e e t t o t h a t 916.8 and a r r i v e d a t t h a t a r b i t r a r y l e v e l of

CHAIRUN McEWEN: Thank you very much.

M r . F raser .

MR. FRASER: I might j u s t add, with regard t o

t h e f loodp la in zoning t h a t 921 came i n , was e s t a b l i s h e d i n

1975 and previous t o t h a t t h e r e was no f loodp la in zoning.

CIHAI?2IAE? PlcEWEN: So you a r e suggest ing t h e

problem may be with some of t h e o l d e r res idences

cons t ruc ted p r i o r t o t h a t s tandard.

I f t h e r e a r e no f u r t h e r s ta tements o r ques t ions from

t h e f l o o r , w e w i l l s tand adjourned o r do we recess? I t i s

a cont inuat ion of t h i s hearing. W e w i l l s tand down u n t i l

2:30 i n Osoyoos.

J u s t one moment. I w i l l be c r i t i c i z e d by s t a f f on

being remiss. Could I have your a t t e n t i o n j u s t one moment.

I was reminded t o t e l l you t h a t t h e record on t h i s

hearing and t h e one t h i s af ternoon i n Osoyoos remains open

f o r 30 days a f t e r t h i s d a t e . Any w r i t t e n s tatements

received wi th in t h a t time w i l l be made a p a r t of t h i s

(The hearing was recessed u n t i l 2:30 p.m. i n Osoyoos, B r i t i s h Columbia. )



(MS) 448-8467

3 I OSOYOOS COMMUNITY CENTER I

1

2

2:30 P.M.

DECEMBER 8, 1981

4

5

6

OSOYOOS, BRITISH COLUMBIA

CHAIIITGlN OLSON: We are now in a continuation of

7

8

the hearing. We stood down in Oroville and we are now goinq

to stand up in Osoyoos.

9

10

11

On behalf of the International Joint Commission I would

like to welcome you to this public hearing. My name is

Richmond Olson. I am Acting Canadian Commissioner of the

12

13

14

United States Section of the Commission. He chaired the

public hearing in Oroville this morning.

International Joint Comission and as such since this is the

practice, I will be serving as Chairman of this hearing since

it is being held in Canada.

15

16

Mr. Robert McEwen, the gentleman on my immediate right I

is the Co-Chairman of the Commission and is Chairman of the

19. Before we get on to the more important things, I would

like you to also meet the other members of the International

22


S. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE.WASHlNGTON 99203

(509) 448-8467

Joint Col~mission. Mr. Keith Bulen from Indiana. At the far

end of the table is Senator Donald Totten from Illinois. My

23

24

25'

Canadian colleague is Charles Bedard from ilontreal.

his meeting is beinq held to help us find facts and

deepen our understanding of the application as made before us,

and more impor t an t ly perhaps t o r e c e i v e any comments which

any o f you who a r e r e s i d e n t s and have prime concerns i n t h e

a r e a wish t o b r i n g t o o u r a t t e n t i o n .

A s you know, t h e S t a t e of Washington i s seek ing an

o r d e r f o r approval f o r c o n s t r u c t i o n of new c o n t r o l works

which t h e S t a t e w i l l own, f o r r e g u l a t i n g t h e l e v e l s o f

Osoyoos Lake and va r ious o t h e r purposes t h a t a r e i n t h i s

s t r u c t u r e .

The Commission i s cons ide r ing t h i s a p p l i c a t i o n under

i t s r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s set o u t i n t h e Boundary V a t e r s T rea ty

of 1903, t h a t i s t o a s s u r e t h a t s u i t a b l e and adequate

p r o v i s i o n i s made f o r t h e p r o t e c t i o n of i n t e r e s t s t h a t may

be a f f e c t e d o r enhanced i n t h e r i v e r b a s i n , more p a r t i c u l a r l y

your community i n r e s p e c t t o t h i s proposed works.

I was going t o t a l k a b i t about t h e dam i t s e l f b u t I

t h i n k t h a t i s more a p p r o p r i a t e l y done by t h e Chairman o f

t h e Board of Cont ro l who w i l l speak t o you b r i e f l y and who

unders tands t h e way i n which w e o p e r a t e t h a t .

The Province of B r i t i s h Columbia i s gupport ing t h e

a p p l i c a t i o n of t h e S t a t e of Washington and a f t e r a b r i e f

summary o f what went on t h i s morning, B r i t i s h Columbia w i l l

make i t s r e p o r t on i t s p o s i t i o n i n supnor t of t h e a p p l i c a -

t i o n and t h e r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s o f t h e S t a t e of Washington and

B r i t i s h Columbia w i l l t hen answer q u e s t i o n s proposed by t h e

two counsel f o r t h e Commission w i t h a view t o broadening o u r

I CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporter, Inc.


(509) 448-8407,

knowledge of t h e mat ter .

I want t o underl ine t h a t t h e Commission has indeed a

long h i s t o r y of dec is ion making with t h e he lp of information

submitted by t h e pub l i c a t open pub l i c hear ings and, indeed,

it i s i n t e r e s t i n g b u t t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l J o i n t Commission

was one of t h e very f i r s t governmental o r supragovernmental

bodies t o recognize t h e importance of pub l i c hear ings and,

indeed, almost has an ob l iga t ion a s w r i t t e n i n t o t h e 1909

t r e a t y . I assu re you any submissions you make w i l l r ece ive

c l o s e a t t e n t i o n . Both c i t i z e n s of e i t h e r country are q u i t e

f r e e and welcome t o con t r ibu te a t t h i s sess ion and I would

a l s o add t h a t , as a mat ter of p r a c t i c e , we tend t o say a

per iod of 30 days a f t e r today w e a r e s t i l l open t o r ece iv ing

any ques t ions , comments t h a t any.of you may want t o make

a f t e r r e f l e c t i o n upon what you hear here.

Now, a s you know, some of you a r e new; some of you were

i n Orov i l l e t h i s morning. This morning we heard from t h e

S t a t e of Washington r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s followed by some ques t ions

posed by t h e counsel and then w e heard b r i e f l y from t h e B o a r d

of Control Chairman what t h e i r r o l e was and we would l i k e t o

summarize t h a t b r i e f l y f o r you before we then proceed so we

w i l l a l l be roughly i n possession of t h e same information.

M r . Moos, would you b r i e f l y o u t l i n e t h e app l i ca t ion .

MR. MOOS: M e apprec ia te t h e opportuni ty t o appear

before t h e J o i n t Commission and we apprec ia te t h e



(509) 448-8467

h o s p i t a l i t y of Osoyoos and o u r o p p o r t u n i t y which was

extended du r ing t h e noon hour t o v i s i t your town.

I am h e r e w i t h John Spencer and S teve M i t c h e l l from

t h e Department o f Ecology and w e would be p l ea sed t o answer

any p a r t i c u l a r q u e s t i o n s t h a t w e p o s s i b l y can concerning o u r

a p p l i c a t i o n . B r i t i s h Columbia and t h e S t a t e of Washington

over t h e p a s t decade have been working ve ry d i l i g e n t l y t o

reach a mutual unders tanding and agreement concerning t h e

t rans-border f lows of t h e Okanagan 3 i v e r which a f f e c t s , of

cou r se , t h e l e v e l and t h e c o n d i t i o n o f Lake Osoyoos.

Yany of you know t h i s much b e t t e r t han I do, b u t j u s t

t o go over it, Zosel D a m which i s t h e r e g u l a t e d f e a t u r e f o r

Lake Osoyoos, was b u i l t i n 1927 and it was c o n s t r u c t e d f o r

c o n s t r u c t i o n and t h e f a c t o r s t h e r e , it d i d , i n f a c t ,

e s t a b l i s h t h e impoundment t h a t a f f e c t e d t h e l a k e and t h e

cond i t i on of t h e l a k e .

I n 1 9 4 8 t h e dam was modif ied t o i n c r e a s e i ts c a p a c i t y

f o r pas s ing l a r g e f lows and from t i m e t o t i m e s t a r t e d going

i n t o d i s r e p a i r and back i n '74 and '75 and aga in i n 1979

they needed emergency r e p a i r s . The Corps of Engineers w a s

c a l l e d i n i n , I t h i n k , 1979 o r 1 9 7 3 a t t h e r e q u e s t o f t h e

Commission t o f u r t h e r e v a l u a t e t h e i n t e g r i t y of t h a t dam.

During t h a t t i n e , of cou r se , t h e r e have been cont inuous

meet ings between t h e S t a t e and t h e Province.



(509) 448-8487

I The f a i l u r e of t h e Zosel Dam t o n a i n t a i n t h e e x i s t i n g I l a k e l e v e l s r e s u l t s i n app rec i ab l e damage and f i n a n c i a l

I I

l o s s t o a g r i c u l t u r a l , r e c r e a t i o n a l and s u n i c i p a l i n t e r e s t s

1 i n both B r i t i s h Co lmSia and t h e S t a t e of Flashington s o t h e n

i s a mutual i n t e r e s t t h e r e . I

I n 1978 t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l J o i n t Conmission reques ted

t h e Cnited S t a t e s Corps of Engineers t o develop concept

p l ans f o r a new c o n t r o l s t r u c t u r e f o r Osoyoos Lake. The

Corps submit ted t h i s p l an i n '79. The Corps1 concept p l an

wi th some mod i f i ca t ions has been inco rpo ra t ed i n t h e

Wa'shington S t a t e app l i ca t , i on t h a t i s now be fo re t h e

tlould provide t h e p h y s i c a l c a p a b i l i t y t o e f f i c i e n t l y . I 12

13

I implement t h e B r i t i s h Columbia, \17ashington S t a t e Cooperation I IS

Commission.

I n e s sence , the 'p roposed Osoyoos Lake c o n t r o l s t r u c t u r e

1 af te rnoon . - , I

16

17

I A t t h e same t ime t h e e x i s t i n g , out-moded s t r u c t u r e

would be rep laced . The B r i t i s h Columbia qovernnent has

provided a s s i s t a n c e i n formula t ing o u r a p p l i c a t i o n and w e

Plan. O f course , w e w i l l be d i s c u s s i n g n o t on ly t h e proposa

of b u i l d i n g t h e dam b u t a l s o t h i s Cooperation Plan t h i s

have rece ived t h e i r endorsement. The S t a t e and Province

a r e now workinq t o g e t h e r t o develop s u i t a b l e f i n a n c i a l

arrangements f o r funding t h e proposed c o n t r o l s t r u c t u r e .

W e r e s p e c t f u l l y hope t h a t t h e Commission w i l l approve


S. St07 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203

(509) 448-8467

~p -- -

MOOS

o u r a p p l i c a t i o n .

Thank you, gentlemen.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Thank you, M r . Moos. Thank you

The o t h e r t h i n g w e d i d i n O r o v i l l e nex t was hea rd from

M r . Wex who i s Canadian counsel and M r . Chandler , counse l

f o r t h e United S t a t e s .

Could you gentlemen j u s t g i v e us b r i e f l y what t h e

p r i n c i p a l concerns w e r e t h i s morning.

MR. CHANDLER: IQe engaged i n a d i a logue concerning

p r i n c i p a l l y t h e purpose o f t h e new s t r u c t u r e and a l s o t h e

Rather t han g e t t i n g i n t o a blow-by-blow d , i scuss ion of

F i r s t of a l l , w e recognized t h a t t h e Commission cannot

involve i t s e l f i n t h e p o r t i o n o f t h e Cooperat ion P lan d e a l i n

w i th t h e trans-boundary f lows, t h a t t h a t i s a m a t t e r under

~ r t i c l e I1 of t h e Boundary Waters T rea ty and t h e Commission

has no j u r i s d i c t i o n w i t h r e s p e c t t o t h o s e f lows.

W e a l s o found t h a t t h e p r i n c i p a l purpose of t h e new

a p p l i c a t i o n i s t o c o n t r o l l a k e l e v e l s on Osoyoos Lake and

t h i s p r i n c i p a l l y du r ing t h e i r r i g a t i o n and r e c r e a t i o n

seasons .

W e d i s cus sed t h e e x t e n t t o which t h e Commission should

be concerned wi th t h e Cooperat ion Plan and found t h a t t h e mos



(509) 448-8467 67 CHANDLER

important th ing f o r t h e Commission t o look t o is t h e l ake

l e v e l s , t h e l ake l e v e l s contained i n t h a t Cooperation Plan.

W e a l s o found t h a t t h e m i l f o i l po r t ion of t h e o r i g i n a l

a p p l i c a t i o n i s now probably not going t o be implemented and,

the re fo re , t h e r e w i l l be no adverse impact on t h e f i s h e r y

being maintained i n t h e r i v e r .

There i s one f u r t h e r po in t I should mention. The S t a t e

of Washington d i d note t h a t it d i d no t have t h e l e g a l

a u t h o r i t y t o e n t e r i n t o an agreement with t h e Province of

B r i t i s h Columbia with r e s p e c t t o t h e Okanagan.

That smar izes t h e po in t s I r a i s e d . M r . Wex may have

a d d i t i o n a l comments.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Thank you, M r . Chandler.

M r . Wex.

l6 I absence of l e g a l a u t h o r i t y t o e n t e r i n t o a formal agreement I 15

l7 1 and t h e s t a t u s of t h e Cooperation Plan and i t s r e l a t i o n s h i ?

IIE. WEX: The l a s t p o i n t t h a t was r a i s e d on t h e I I

t o t h e app l i ca t ion and t o t h e order i s something t h a t we . . ..

have s t a r t e d t o pursue t h i s morning and nay have an

opportuni ty t o continue t h i s af ternoon.

I- s tanding , you might say , of t h i s Cooperation Agreement. The . .

21

23 1 S t a t e of Washin~con has ind ica ted t h a t they have c e r t a i n

, . The i s s u e t h a t i s being d.iscussed i s one of t h e l e g a l

24 1 expecta t ions t h a t a r i s e from t h a t document and they would

25 1 r e l a t e t o minimum flows of 100 c f s i n t h e f i r s t two drought

I



(509) 448-8487 6 8 WE X

g e a r s b u t n o t t h e t h i r d and y e t it ~ o u l d be worthwhile

perhaps t o pursue a t a l a t e r t i m e t h e q u e s t i g n o f how f i rm

t h e s e e x p e c t a t i o n s a r e because i f w e a r e n o t d e a l i n g wi th a

formal agreement and i f t h e r e is n o t a l e q a l a u t h o r i t y t o

e n t e r i n t o such an agreement, t h e n w e do n o t want t o see

f a l s e e x p e c t a t i o n s r a i s e d i n e i t h e r S t a t e o r Province a s t o

hat may happen a t a l a t e r d a t e .

W e had j u s t s t a r t e d t o g e t i n t o t h a t a r e a o f

d i s c u s s i o n b u t it i s an impor tan t a r e a t h a t w e would l i k e

t o pursue l a te r on.

Thank you.

CHAINJIAN OLSON: Thank you. W e t hen had a s h o r t

i n t r o d u c t i o n and s ta tement of concerns bv what i s c a l l e d

t h e Osoyoos Board of Cont ro l which c o n s i s t s o f f o u r people ,

I t h i n k appointed by us t o c a r r y o u t c e r t a i n o b l i g a t i o n s

w i th r e s p e c t t o t h e prev ious a u t h o r i z a t i o n . The Canadian

Chairman, M r . T o f t e i s wi th us and could you i n t r o d u c e your

co l l eagues and b r i e f l y t e l l us t he main t h r u s t o f your

s t a t emen t t h i s morning.

GORDON TOFTE , having been sworn on o a t h , d i d Regional Chief , Water t e s t i f y a s fo l lows: Resources Branch o f In land Waters D i r e c t o r a t e , P a c i f i c and Yukon Region and Chairman of t h e Canadian Sec t ion of t h e Board,

MR. TOFTE: M r . Chairman, t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l

Osoyoos Lake Board of Control i s p l eased t o p r e s e n t a b r i e f

I Court Reporter. Inc. S. 5107 PERRY

SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 69 TOFTE

statement . We would l i k e t o review t h e h i s t o r y of Zosel

Dam, d i scuss i t s p resen t condi t ion and comment b r i e f l y on

t h e app l i ca t ion by t h e S t a t e of Washington.

I am accompanied today by t h r e e o t h e r members of t h e

Board. There a r e s i x members i n a l l .

1Qr. C o l l i e r i s t h e Chairman of t h e U . S . Sec t ion of t h e

Board of Control. K r i s Kauffman with t h e Department of

Parks and Recreation down i n t h e S t a t e of Washington i s t h e

o t h e r U . S . member. Pe te r Brady, t h e o t h e r Canadian member,

and myself a s t h e Chairman of t h e Canadian Sect ion.

V7e have two members t h a t a r e missing, M r . Clark who i s

t h e Regional Direc tor , Inland Waters Di rec to ra te and

Colonel Hintz, t h e S e a t t l e D i s t r i c t engineer with t h e U.S.

Army Corps.

To t r y t o summarize, I guess, what we presented here

t h i s morning, t h e Chairman, M r . Commissioner, has asked w e

shor ten t h e p resen ta t ion . The S t a t e of Washington has

a l ready presented what Zosel Dam i s . I t i s a con t ro l

s t r u c t u r e t h a t does e x i s t a t t h e o u t l e t of Osoyoos Lake,

b u i l t back i n ' 2 7 a t a c o s t , i n t h e way of passing, f o r

$ 2 , 5 0 0 . A t - t h a t time it was j u s t a dam t o c r e a t e a millpond

t o s t o r e logs f o r William Zosel ' s logginq opera t ion .

I t was determined t h a t it d i d a f f e c t t h e l e v e l of

Osoyoos Lake p a r t i c u l a r l y a t f lood s t a g e s so t h e mat ter was

r e f e r r e d t o t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l J o i n t Commission.



(509) 448-8467

70 TOFTE

I n response t o an a p p l i c a t i o n by t h e S t a t e of

Washington dated September 2 6 , 1 9 4 2 t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l

J o i n t Com.ission he ld hearings i n Pent ic ton and appointed

a s p e c i a l Board of Engineers t o s tudy t h e problem of back-

water i n Osoyoos Lake. A t i t s semi-annual meeting i n Apr i l

' 4 6 t h e I J C accepted a Board of Engineers ' r e p o r t and

following pub l i c hearings i n Osoyoos, B.C. and Orov i l l e ,

Washington, i s sued t h e Order of September 1 2 , 1946 which i s

s t i l l i n e f f e c t today.

One of t h e th ings t h a t should be emphasized and probabl

w i l l be dwelled on l a t e r t h i s af ternoon, i s t h a t t h i s curren

order s p e c i f i e s only t h e maximum e l e v a t i o n t h a t we have a t

t h e millpond behind Zosel Dam, n o t t h e maximum l e v e l on

Osoyoos Lake.

The l ake l e v e l on Osoyoos has a t times exceeded t h e

l e v e l a t Zosel Dam by more than two f e e t .

The o rde r a l s o recognizes t h a t under c e r t a i n condi t ions

t h e millpond e leva t ion of Zosel Dam of 9 1 1 f e e t would be

exceeded. This may occur when t h e in-flow t o t h e millpond

exceeds 2,500 cubic f e e t per second o r when backwater

condi t ions from t h e Similkmeen River reduces t h e discharge

from t h e dam. The o t h e r problem i s backwater from Tonasket

Creek which e n t e r s t h e Okanagan River 1.3 mi les down-

stream from Osoyoos Lake and four t e n t h s of a m i l e upstream

from Zosel Dam. Although it has drainage of 60 square mi le

CAROL L. DEWEY Courf Reporter, Inc.


(509) 448-8467

71 TOFTE

it transports a significant,load of sand and gravel during - high flows, when the discharge and the velocity in the L

Okanagan River are too low to transport this sediment, the

material is deposited to form a bar across the Okanaqan

River. Periodic dredging is required to prevent the bar

from being the primary low-flow control for the levels of

Osoyoos Lake rather than the Zosel Dam.-

Since issuance of the 1946 Order, discharge capacity of

Zosel Dam has been significantly reduced. Fish ladders have

been installed on the bays on each end of the dam and one baq

filled to maintain the integrity of the structure. These

modifications have reduced the maximum discharge capacity

at millpond elevation 911.00 feet to less than 2,100 cubic

feet per second.

~uring spring snowmelt runoff in most years some

violation of the 911.00 elevation of the millpond does occur.

However, these amounts are normally or qenerally minor, a

hundredth of a foot to three tenths of a foot and normally

last a very short period.

In February '79 the Oroville-Tonasket Irrigation

21 District assumed routine operation of the dam. The Board I I would like to take this opportunity to thank the District and

particularly its manager, Mr. Lowell Felt, for his

conscientious effort in this task.



(509) 4468487 TOFTE

maintenance of t h e dam and has a l s o been ins t rumenta l i n

making pe r iod ic r e p a i r s . I n August of '74 a 12-foot wide

s e c t i o n f a i l e d and was repa i red under t h e supervis ion of

t h e Washington S t a t e Department &f Ecology. I n ~ p r i l of ' 78

a t t h e reques t of t h e Commission and Board of Control t h e

S e a t t l e D i s t r i c t , U . S . Army Corps of Engineers, inspected

Zosel D a m f o r i t s s t r u c t u r a l i n t e g r i t y . I t was i n extremely

poor condi t ion and extens ive temporary r e p a i r s were made

under t h e supervis ion of Washington S t a t e Department of

Ecology. Those temporary r e p a i r s were completed i n March of

'79, inspected and accepted by t h e Board of Control May 11,

1979. The Department of Ecology has ind ica ted t o t h e Board

of Control t h e S t a t e ' s i n t e n t t o maintain t h e short-term

i n t e g r i t y of t h e dam u n t i l such t i m e a s a new c o n t r o l

s t r u c t u r e f o r Osoyoos Lake i s cons t ruc ted .

A t t h e meeting i n Orov i l l e i n 1978 t h e Commission asked

t h e Board of Control t o provide a conceptual plan and c o s t

e s t ima te f o r a c o n t r o l s t r u c t u r e t o r ep lace Zosel Dam. The

S e a t t l e D i s t r i c t , U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, prepared t h e

plan which was submitted t o t h e Commission on May 4 , 1979.

The S t a t e of Washington has, with some r e v i s i o n s ,

adopted t h i s p lan i n t h e i r Applicat ion f o r an Order of

Approval, dated December 2 2 , 1980. This a p p l i c a t i o n i s t o

cons t ruc t a new c o n t r o l works f o r r egu la t ing t h e l e v e l of

Osoyoos Lake. Attached t o .the Applicat ion f o r Information

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporter. Inc. S. 5107 PERRY


73 TOFTE

purposes only is a British Columbia-Washington State

Cooperation Plan for Osoyoos Lake Levels and Trans-Border

The Board of Control concurred that the primary concern

would be lake levels and regulation should be based on lake

level rather than millpond level. ,This cannot be

accomplished with the present control structure. The

difference in levels between Osoyoos Lake and the millpond is

not constant but varies according to the conditions and the

flows in the channels connecting them. The establishment of

desirable limits of Osoyoos Lake would be beneficial. To

accomplish this a structure such as that proposed by the

State of Washington must be constructed to replace Zosel Dam.

The International Osoyoos Lake Board of Control

considers the existing dam, built by William Zosel, should

be replaced within the next three years. A new structure

would be a logical and feasible step towards solving many

of the water-level problems of the lake in the area for a

number of years. High water levels would be alleviated by

improved outlet capacity and outlet channel. Low-level

control would be facilitated and' greater use of the lake as

a storage reservoir during severe droughts would be possible.

Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, we appreciate the

opportunity to appear before the Commission today and to

participate in these public hearings.



(509) 448-8467 7 4 TOFTE

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Thank you, Mr. Tofte.

One small order of business, I would like to introduce

Murray Clamen, an engineer who is on our staff who we may

need to have jump into the fray when we get too technical

for us laymen.

We also heared from the'oroville Chamber of Commerce,

generally supportive of the application but expressed

concern about the milfoil problem.

We heard also concerns from the boat owners and the

difficulty of launching their boats, concerns about that,

given certain assumed lake levels. We heard concerns about

polution of these waters. We heard also of the importance

of these waters, particularly to the tree producers in the

Okanagan valley and a number of other questions were raised.

Those submissions are on our files and our files are oDen

to the public and should any of you wish to have details of

those submissions, copies can be made available to you,

perhaps not immediately but certainly by mail.

We decided this morning to follow the practice of

taking sworn. testimony and in that connection I would

ask my colleague, Mr. Bulen, to remind those of you who

did take an affirmation that you remain so bound and to

administer an affirmation to those others who will be

giving testimony this afternoon.

COPMISSIONER BULEN: Those who did take the oath



(509) 448-8467

75 BULEN

this morning need not arise. For those of you who do

expect to give testimony, statements or observations, we

would like you to take the oath. Would you stand and raise

your right hand. You do solemnly swear or affirm the facts

you are going to give the International Joint Commission

in this hearing today will be the truth, the whole truth

and nothing but the truth, so help you God.

RESPONSE IN UNISON: I do.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Thank you, Mr. Bulen.

The proposal we thought might be sensible would be

to ask representatives of the government of British Columbia

to make their formal submission and then perhaps they would

join the Washington representatives and answer any further

questions that counsel may wish to put together.

We then have five other briefs that we will receive

and consider and we do want to keep enough time to give

proper attention to those briefs. We are not working under

any time limitations other than your stomachs at supper.

Mr. Edwards, could you perhaps join Plr. Moos and then

you can use the microphone, please.

ROBERT EDWARDS 1

having been sworn on oath, did Province of testify as follows: British Columbia

MR. EDWARDS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would

like, first of all, if I may, to make a brief statement of



(We) 448-8487 76 EDWARDS

position on behalf of the government of British Columbia and

then Mr. Brady and Mr. Mc~eil -- Xr. Brady, comptroller of Water Rights, and Mr. McNeil with the Ministry of

Environment -- will be available for questions by Commissioners or by counsel.

The Province of British Columbia is happy to endorse

the application by the State of Washington to the Inter-

national Joint Commission to build a new structure to contro

the level of Osoyoos Lake.

We believe there is a real need to replace the Zosel

Dam as quickly as practicable. The new structure would be

of benefit to British Columbia for several reasons including,

first, the danger of structural collapse of the dam and the

consequent uncontrolled low lake level would be eliminated.

Second, the new structure would enable the operator to

control the lake level more easily and more accurately.

This would be of benefit to agricultural, municipal, tourism

and recreational interests around the lake which would have

to rely on the lake to be dontrolled within certain bounds.

Third, the new structure by impounding excess runoff 0

during a freshet of dry years would assure a supply of water

for agricultural and other purposes in the late summer should

dry conditions continue.

As was pointed out by Mr. Chandler, Commission Counsel,

the application is one under Article IV of the Boundary



(M9) 448-8467

apportionment o r b e n e f i t .

We do no t consider t h e Cooperation Plan between our ' 1

Commission f o r information only. During dry yea r s n a t u r a l

of t h e sunmer. s to rage developed and paid f o r by B r i t i s h \

Columbia augments these n a t u r a l flows t o provide water t o

l i censees i n Canada. For t e c h n i c a l reasons it i s not

f e a s i b l e to r e l e a s e only t h a t amount of water which w i l l be

t h e border and has been and cont inues t o be of b e n e f i t t o our

the re fo re , t h e Cooperation Plan does not g u a r a n b any

I t i s t h e P;rovince's p o s i t i o n t h a t t h e management of

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporter, lnc

S 5107 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 78 EDWARDS

(509) 448-6467

i

We have enjoyed excellent relations with officials

in Washington State and we are sure that the cooperation

Plan will continue to provide the basis for a mutually

happy to endorse the application which is before the

Commission today.

CINIRMAN OLSON: Thank you. Do your colleagues

wish to add anything at this time?

MR. EDPlARDS: I don't believe so but as I have

indicated, M r . Chairman, they are available for questions.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Mr. Wex and M r . Chandler.

MR. WEX: Thank you. Perhaps we can address the

questions, as they may be, to officials of the State and of

the Province and try and have a better understanding all the

way around about the absence of a relationship between the

Cooperation Plan and the Application that we have been urqed

to see it that way.

When w e left off this morning with the State,

Mr. Spencer I believe, we were talking about the expectations

in the first two years of a drought season, that there would

be water and the amount of 100 cfs that the State of

Washington would receive, and in light of the British

~olumbia statement I am just wondering on what basis those

expectations are based.



(509) 448-8467

79 WEX

1 J O H N SPENCER, having been previous ly sworn on I Department of Ecology, oa th , d i d t e s t i f y a s follows:

S t a t e of Washington

I MR. SPENCER: They a r e expecta t ions only. We have \

d e a l t with t h e B r i t i s h Columbia government and what they hav

read i n t o t h e record here t h i s morning i s no d i f f e r e n t than

what they have ind ica ted i n t h e pas t . W e recognize t h a t the

a r e opera t ing a s to rage system f o r i r r i g a t i o n and i n most

circumstances and under t h e c u r r e n t s t r u c t u r a l c a p a b i l i t i e s

with r e t u r n flows t h e r e w i l l be flows coning i n t o Osoyoos I Lake and t h a t genera l ly it i s accepted t h a t those flows a r e

going t o be perhaps a s low a s 100 c f s i n t h e second year of

a drought.

MR. WEX: Could I ask you -- I MR. SPENCER: I am no t q u i t e f in i shed . Our

expecta t ions a r e a l s o b u i l t on t h e f a c t t h a t t h e B r i t i s h

Columbia governnent a l s o recognizes t h e need here a t Osoyoos

t o maintain t h e lake l e v e l and maintain a c e r t a i n in-flow

j u s t t o t ake c a r e of problems of evaporat ion and a l s o

f i s h migration and t h a t they recognize t h a t and w e f e e l t h a t

t h e cooperat ive arrangement we have w i l l l ead t o meeting

those expecta t ions , t h a t we have no reason t o be l i eve t h a t

unless t h e r e a r e some d i r e circiunstances t h a t we wouldn't

MR. WEX: W i l l any a d d i t i o n a l water be passed a t

) l i v e r i n order t o g ive e f f e c t t o t h e Cooperation Plan? The



(509) 448-8467 80 SPENCER

B.C. s ta tement on page two t a l k s about excesses which have

occurred i n t h e p a s t and t h a t t h e Province, i n a sense ,

c a n ' t use t h i s water o r , t h e way it i s phrased here , it i s

no t f e a s i b l e t o r e l e a s e only t h a t amount which w i l l be

requi red t o Canada. Is t h e information r e a d i l y a v a i l a b l e

a s t o comparison a s t o what has happened i n t h e p a s t and a s

t o whether t h e r e w i l l be a d d i t i o n a l water passed i n t h e

STEVE MITCHELL, having been previous ly sworn on Department of Ecology, o a t h , d i d t e s t i f y a s fol lows S t a t e of Washington

MR. MITCHELL: The way we arrange it, it i s about

t h e same a s t h e flows t h a t have occurred h i s t o r i c a l l y . I t

i s p r e t t y much t h e same. There won't be any excess water

because of t h e minimum flows t h a t w e a r e t a l k i n g about i n

t h e Cooperation Plan.

MR. WEX: Those same flows would have passed i n

MR. MITCHELL: Generally, over a period of years .

MR. WEX: But i n drought years?

MR. MITCHELL: They a r e not t h a t much d i f f e r e n t

than what has occurred h i s t o r i c a l l y .

CHAIRMAN OLSON: t4r . Wex, perhaps t h e representa-

t i v e of B r i t i s h Columbia could jo in t h e t a b l e .

PETER BRADY, having been previously sworn on Direc tor , Water llanagement o a t h , d i d t e s t i f y a s follows: Branch, Minis try of Environment



(509) 448-8467

81 MITCHELL

MR. BRADY: W e p resen t ly opera te t h e system i n

accordance with a framework p lan t h a t was developed with

t h e j o i n t study of t h e f e d e r a l government f o r t h e management

of t h e water resources wi th in t h e v a l l e y and wi th in t h a t

framework t h e r e i s no ques t ion t h e r e would be more than

what i s requi red i n terms of trans-border flows i n t h e

f i r s t drought year. I n t h e second year again i f we

opera te i n accordance with these requirements because of t h e

t echn ica l l i m i t a t i o n s on t h e amount of water and t h e l e v e l

we must achieve coming down i n t o Osovoos Lake and t h e

e l eva t ions we must g e t i n order t o f a c i l i t a t e t h e d ive r s ions

of water , when w e combine t h a t wi th t h e s to rage i n t h e l a k e ,

once again w e run i n t o t h e s i t u a t i o n where you a r e going t o

inadver ten t ly g e t a trans-border flow of approaching 100 c f s .

I f i n t h e f u t u r e , however, t h i s plan w i l l be changed

o r i f we reach a po in t where we had t o make a saw-off

between water r i g h t s and water needs i n Canada i n t h e

trans-border flows, then obviously t h e dec i s ion would go t o

Canada; our needs would be met f i r s t and I be l i eve I a m

c o r r e c t i n saying our col leagues understood t h i s and

understand it a t t h i s t i m e .

MR. WEX: So, a s a r e s u l t i s t h a t t h e 1976

agreement you a r e r e f e r r i n g t o between t h e f e d e r a l govern- 7

24 1 ment and t h e Province?

MR. BRADY: I t i s not an agreement. It i s a \ .



(509) 4468467 8 2 BRADY

r e p o r t which came out-o-f-a-jaint f e d e r a l province study. - ,\ ----

MR. WEX: YOU a r e j u s t g iv ing e f f e c t t o a r e p o r t ?

MR. BRADY: To a r e p o r t which was developed by t h

government, i n consu l t a t ion I must add, with t h e people of

t h e basin.

,w. WEX: The s tatement t h a t was made t h i s

morning from t h e S t a t e ' s po in t of view t h a t they d i d - n o t

regard themselves a s having t h e l e g a l a u t h o r i t y t o e n t e r

i n t o a formal agreement t o g ive e f f e c t t o t h e coopera t ive

p lan , would t h a t be t h e same view from t h e Province?

MR. BRADY: Yes, it would. The reason t h a t we

a r e pursuing t h i s , t o be abso lu te ly c l e a r about it, i s t h a t

i n o rde r t o p r o t e c t t h e i n t e r e s t s i n Canada, it would

appear t h a t t h e information w e have would r e q u i r e t h a t

l e v e l s of t h e l ake be maintained between 910.5 and 913 i n

16 t h e drought years and t h a t i f t h e l ake l e v e l s could be

maintained, i f t h e r e was enough water t o maintain them a t

those l e v e l s , t h a t t h e i n t e r e s t s above t h e boundary i n

Canada would be adequately pro tec ted .

MR. WEX: Are you s a t i s f i e d t h a t i s t h e case?

MR. BRADY: I would say t h a t wi th in t h e

22 1 cooperation Plan a s proposed and with t h e s to rage t h e r e

23 1 t h a t a s f a r a s we can see i n t o t h e f u t u r e our i n t e r e s t s

have been pro tec ted and, indeed, i f w e f i n d they a r e n o t ,

we s t i l l f e e l w e have t h e c a p a b i l i t y of a s su r ing t h a t our



MR. WEX: So it is understood by all, the

drought year. In another system where the United States is

upstream, the situation would be reversed; we would be

asking the questions of the other side to be satisfied that

MR. BRADY: (~odding yes .)

MR. WEX: In terms of releases that would be made

MR. BRADY: We would prefer to continue to


S 5107 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203

(509) 448-8467 8 4 BRADY

myself and i n t h i s case f o r B r i t i s h Columbia's representa-

t i o n on t h a t Board. I would say t h a t t h e r o l e of t h e Board

would be one t h a t would be l i m i t e d , obviously, t o what comes

o u t i n any o rde r from t h e I J C and i n t h a t regard would be

l imi ted l a r g e l y t o t h e insurance of t h e i n t e g r i t y of t h e

s t r u c t u r e and y e t meet our prime o b j e c t i v e and t h a t i s t o

a s su re over t h e long term t h a t we can cont inue with s t a b l e

lake opera t ion around Osoyoos Lake, with a s t a b l e l a k e

l e v e l , I should say , t o cont inue our ongoing development

and a l s o we would have t h e oppor tuni ty t o modify those

l e v e l s p e r i o d i c a l l y t o our s a t i s f a c t i o n , but without t h e

Board g e t t i n g involved i n t h e day-to-day dec i s ions whether

o r not we should r e l e a s e an e x t r a 50 c f s o r bump t h e l e v e l

up o r down one o r two t e n t h s .

MR. WEX: Would it be a ques t ion of whoever t h e

opera to r s a r e t o r e p o r t t o t h e Board i n a t imely fashion o r

how do you s e e t h e Board involved i n a t imely manner?

MR. BRADY: The l ake l e v e l s a r e a v a i l a b l e t o t h e

Board i n any case.

MR. WEX: The s tatement of B r i t i s h Columbia,

po in t two, t a l k s about t h e opera to r s i n p l u r a l . Was t h e r e ,

a s i d e from t h e a p p l i c a n t , d i d you have i n mind anyone o t h e r

than t h e a p p l i c a n t a s t h e 'operator?

MR. BRADY: NO, we thought perhaps an agent such

a s an i r r i g a t i o n d i s t r i c t , bu t i n terms of our agreement,


S. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 85 BRADY

they would be t h e ope ra to r .

MR. WEX: Thank you.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: M r , Chandler.

fill?. CHANDER: No ques t ions . Thank you..

CHAIRMAN OLSON: J u s t t o unde r l ine , I t h i n k -- I

h a d n ' t thought of it be fo re -- t h e importance of . t h a t l a s t

po in t . W e d i d hear t h i s morning of r a t h e r s e r i o u s and

sus t a ined v i o l a t i o n s by t h e o p e r a t o r o f t h e e x i s t i n g o rde r

b u t I t h i n k M r . Wex has indeed r a i s e d t h e i s s u e and perhaps

you might f e e l you would want t o make a f u r t h e r submission

on t h a t p o i n t a f t e r t h e hear ings i f you have anything

f u r t h e r t o add,

M r . Clamen, would you wish t o ask some ques t ions?

MURRAY CLAMEN, Engineer, Canadian Sec t ion

MR. CLAMEN: I j u s t have two r a t h e r minor p o i n t s

I wanted t o c l a r i f y . I n looking a t t h e a p p l i c a t i o n , on

Tonasket Creek i n t h e r e l o c a t i o n of it, i s t h e r e any way

t h a t t ha , t would have an e f f e c t on t h e ope ra t ion of t h e new

dam?

MR. MITCHELL: NO, except now I want t o q u a l i f y

t h a t . Only t h a t w e need t o r e l o c a t e Tonasket Creek t o t a k e

away f u t u r e o r prevent f u t u r e o b s t r u c t i o n s t h a t has a

connection t o it, otherwise i t d o e s n ' t .

MR. CLAMEN: Do you envisage maintenance work i n


S. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 86 CLAMEN

terms of future dredging that'may have to be performed even

as a result of relocation?

MR. MITCHELL: Yes, in the oxbow that we are

going to use as a settling basin, we would have to dredge

that out. That would be frilling up once maybe every eight

MR. CLAMEN: That would be performed by --?

MR. MITCHELL: By the State.

MR. CLAMEN: I have one other question on the

concept plan that was originally submitted by the Corps in

'75 it listed some construction costs and the major cost in

that listing is for someS2.4 million dollars for channel

clearing. In the application submitted now the channel

improvement of Tonasket Creek will not take place.

~ u s t to clarify in my own mind and perhaps for others,

MR. MITCHELL: Yes.

MR. CLAMEN: What do you estimate the total cost?

MR. MITCHELL: When we eliminated most of the

CLAMEM: So you have a revised cost?

MR. MITCHELL: Yes, we do. Me have a revised

MR. CLAMEN: What would that cost be?

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporter. Inc

S 5107 PERRY SPOKANE WASHINGTON 99203 87 C W E N

(509) 448-8467

MR. MITCHELL: Our r e v i s e d c o s t which i s termed

i n 1983 d o l l a r s because it i n c l u d e s an i n f l a t i o n al lowance

up t o 1983 because t h a t ' s when w e expec t c o n s t r u c t i o n , i s

a t o t a l of $5,893,000.

MR. CLAMEN: I see. I n t h e o r i g i n a l concept

p l a n it w a s s t a t e d t h a t channel dredging and s o on would

be r e q u i r e d t o ma in t a in t h e c a p a c i t y t o pas s 2500 a t 913.

Is t h e r e any reason you d o n ' t need t h a t dredging o u t t o

main ta in t h a t c a p a c i t y ?

MR. MITCHELL: That was p a r t of t h e i n i t i a l

concept . However, i n t h e i n t e r i m pe r iod i n looking a t

t h i s , it j u s t d i d n o t appear t h a t t h a t w a s necessary . I f

it becomes necessary i n t h e f u t u r e , w e a n t i c i p a t e d e a l i n g

wi th t h e Corps of Engineers -- "we" be ing t h e S t a t e -- i n a t t empt ing t o g e t t h a t done b u t t h a t would n o t be p a r t

of t h i s arrangement t h a t w e have r i g h t now f o r t h e dam.

MR. CLAP4EM: You a r e say ing , t hen , t h a t you can

e f f e c t t h e h y d r a u l i c c o n d i t i o n s you need wi thout doing t h a t

MR. MITCHELL: Y e s , w e would r e l e g a t e t h a t t o

being a S t a t e matter and n o t a mutual matter between B r i t i s

Columbia and Washington S t a t e , w i th t h e except ion o f t h e

r e l o c a t i o n o f Tonasket Creek.

MR. CLAMEN: You d o n ' t see any work i n t h e channe

\

MR. MITCHELL: There may be work b u t t h a t would



(509) 448-8467

be a ~ t a t e ' m a t t e r and no t what we a r e t a l k i n g about today.

MR. CLAMEN: J u s t one o t h e r minor ques t ion . What

agencies a r e involved i n Washington i n terms of approving

t h e s t r u c t u r e , t h e name? Is it t h e Department of Ecology

t h a t d e a l s wi th t h e fishway?

MR. SPENCER: The Department of Ecology w i l l

do t h e design under c o n t r a c t with an engineering f i rm. We

do have t h e dam s a f e t y r e s p o n s i b i l i t y i n our s t a t e s o our

Dam Safe ty ~ i v i s i o n w i l l do t h e review.

W e do.have an arrangement wi th t h e Corps of ~ n g i n e e r s

t o g e t t h e i r review. We f e e l we need it f o r s a f e t y purposes

The S t a t e Department of F i s h e r i e s w i l l ieview t h e dam and t h

f i s h ladders t o meet t h e i r s p e c i f i c a t i o n s f o r fishways and

t h e Washington S t a t e Department, o r genera l admin i s t r a t ion

w i l l be involved i n t h e handling of t h e property a c q u i s i t i o n

and ownership of t h e f a c i l i t y .

MR. WEX: M r . Chairman, i f I might j u s t r e t u r n t o

one po in t t h a t I j u s t want t o make su re I have s t r a i g h t .

I would d i r e c t it t o M r . Brady.

The Canada, B.C. s tudy, d i d you i n d i c a t e t h a t i n

p a r t i c u l a r l y t h e f i r s t year of t h e drought t h a t more water

would be coming down t h e system?

MR. BRADY: I f we opera te i n accordance wi th t h e

plan.

MR. WEX: The Cooperation Plan works s o r t of hand


S. 5?07 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203

(509) 448-8467 89 BRADY

i n glove with t h a t p lan bu t -- MR. BRADY: Tha t ' s r i g h t . T h a t ' s why you s e e t h e

h igher flows i n t h e Cooperation Plan i n t h e 100 c f s . Those

a r e t i e d i n with t h e plan f o r t h e Okanagan i t s e l f .

MR. WEX: So t h a t t h e r e would be more water

a v a i l a b l e f o r i r r i g a t i o n o r f o r o t h e r purposes i n Canada

q u i t e a p a r t from t h e Cooperation Plan i f we j u s t look a t

t h e federa l -provinc ia l study?

MR. BRADY: Y e s , and those r e l e a s e s a r e l a r g e l y - .

i n connection wi th f i s h e r y flows, t o br ing t h e sockeye up

i n t o Canada.

MR. WEX: So t h a t your previous s ta tement t o t h e

e f f e c t t h a t , i f new uses w e r e i d e n t i f i e d i n Canada, you would

have t h i s a d d i t i o n a l water a s wel l?

MR. BRADY: I f w e a r e prepared t o s a c r i f i c e t h e

flows f o r the f i s h , yes.

!3R: WEX: Thank you.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Thank you.

M r . McEwen.

COMP4ISSIONER McEWEN: I be l i eve my ques t ion should

21 ( be addressed t o t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l Osoyoos Lake Board o f I = I Control. W e t a l k about a minimum of 100 c f s outflow from

25 1 connecting r i v e r channels and l akes , would t h e r e be t h a t

23

24



(509) 440-8467

Osoyoos Lake. I f t h e r e were no waters e n t e r i n g Osoyoos

Lake from t h e system upstream, from Okanagan Lake and

90 BRADY

amount of water discharged from Osoyoos?

MR. TOFTE: I th ink t h a t ques t ion i s probably

answered b e s t by M r . Brady.

MR. BRADY: I was being advised of another mat ter .

Could you p lease r epea t t h e ques t ion?

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: My ques t ion was, i f you shu t

off a l l water coming i n t o Osoyoos Lake from upstream, from

Okanagan Lake and t h e connecting r i v e r and l a k e s above,

would t h e r e be 100 c f s fLow e n t e r i n q Osoyoos Lake?

MR. BRADY: I would l i k e t o l e t Rob McNeil answer

t h a t . I th ink I know t h e answer bu t I p r e f e r he answered

t h a t .

c u t o f f everything flowing i n t o t h e r i v e r , would t h e r e be

100 c f s ? No.

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: A s I understand it -- c o r r e c t m e i f I am no t c o r r e c t l y informed -- t h e r e a r e four

upstream c o n t r o l s t r u c t u r e s above~Osoyoos Lake.

MR. McNEIL: There a r e many more than t h a t . In

t h e main stem t h e r e a r e t h r e e .

CormIss IoNER MCEWEN: I am speaking of t h e main

13

14

s t e m s t a r t i n g I be l i eve a t t h e f o o t of Lake Okanagan.

MR; McNEIL: I d o n ' t want t o ask you t o r epea t

t h e ques t ion again, but d i d I understand you t o say i f you

MR. McNEIL: Skaha Lake and Vaseaux Lake.

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reoorter, Inc


(509) 448-8467 91 MCMEIL

I I be c o r r e c t i n assuming t h a t t h e opera t ion of those

1 s t r u c t u r e s has a g r e a t d e a l t o do with t h e l e v e l of Lake

I con t ro l s t r u c t u r e a t t h e o u t l ake of Osoyoos Lake.

4

5

I COMMISSIONER McEWEN: Because t h e r e i s more than

MR. McNEIL: There i s no s t r a i g h t answer t o t h a t .

The l e v e l of Lake Osoyoos a t most t i m e s i s con t ro l l ed by t h

8

9

100 cubic f e e t p e r second e n t e r i n g t h e l ake from upstream?

MR. McNEIL: Correct .

10

1 1

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: Now, my next ques t ion: 'Who

con t ro l s those next upstream, those t h r e e main stream

12

13

14

IS

l8 I intended d ischarges a r e i n t o Osoyoos Lake?

c o n t r o l s t r u c t u r e s ?

MR. McNEIL: _ B r i t i s h Columbia Minis try of

Environment.

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: Does t h e B r i t i s h Columbia

16 Ministry of Environment consu l t with o r advise t h e

I n t e r n a t i o n a l Osoyoos Lake Board of Control what t h e i r

19

20

21


MR. McNEIL: On an informal b a s i s , yes.

I t i s c e r t a i n l y no t formal but t h e a c t u a l opera tor of t h e

dam, M r . F e l t , I phone him q u i t e f r equen t ly , o r one of my

s t a f f does I might say. He knows what we a r e doing so he

23

24


(509) 448-8467

' can r e a c t t o t h e c o n t r o l g a t e s s o he can keep Osoyoos Lake

a t i s c o r r e c t l e v e l . I t i s no t a formal exchange bu t

92 McNEIL

COMMISSIONER McIWEN: I assume we agree t h e l e v e l

of any body of water such a s Osoyoos Lake, t h e p r i n c i p l e

f a c t o r s a r e in-flow and out-flow.

MR. McNEIL: Yes.

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: And we have t a l k e d a g r e a t

d e a l t h i s morning and af ternoon about t h e r e g u l a t i o n of t h e

out-flow bu t it would seem t o be of equal i n t e r e s t t h e

mat ter of in-flow i n t o t h e l ake because I th ink w e s a i d ,

yes , t h e r e would be l e s s than 100 c f s e n t e r i n g Lake Osoyoos

i f it were no t f o r t h e water rece ived from upstream. I n

o t h e r words, Osoyoos Lake's own drainage bas in wouldn't

provide t h a t amount of water.

Do you, M r . Brady -- o r M r . McNeil, whoever wishes t o

respond, do you envis ion -- o r l e t m e pu t it t h i s way,

under p a s t h i s t o r y of t h e most severe drought cond i t ions ,

have you ever l imi ted t h e in-flow of Osoyoos Lake t o l e s s

than 100 c f s ?

MR. McNEIL: Not i n , what s h a l l w e c a l l it,

modern h i s t o r y . Unfortunately, our records d o n ' t go back

t o t h e r e a l drought per iod.

When w e t a l k about these droughts,. i n B r i t i s h Columbia

w e t r y t o design our system t o surv ive the129 , ' 30 , ' 31

drought, t h r e e years , very s e r i o u s drought condi t ions .

The Okanagan bas in study addressed how w e ourse lves would

surv ive a three-year drought w e r e it t o happen again.



(509) 448-8481 9 3 McNEIL

It seems almost certain that during that drought

period the flows would have fallen below 100 cfs as they

occurred in the early 1930's.

Since the modern control structures were put in and

the modern grape farming and apple orchards that require

very intensive-type irrigation were put in along the river

channel in '73, no flows have ever during the irrigation,

fallen below 100 cfs.

COMMISS IOIJER PllcEFIEN: Thank you very much.

Agreement, whatever its status and standing may be is given

us on some basis called informational only. That makes it

very difficult to ignore it and yet we are being asked, in

a sense, to be a bit artificial about it.

My concern is why would you not go the proper route,

the two of you, Washington and British Columbia, to get

in hand since the issue seems to be an important one,

particularly from the remarks of the fruit growers this

morning, to do it properly and get a properly enforced

agreement, done properly rather than on this rather more

general expectational basis under the aegis of the IJC

application that seems to be somewhat tainted.

Is not enough known about how you actually wish to

apportion that water?



(509) 448-8467 McNEIL

-

MR. BRADY: I w i l l speak f o r B r i t i s h Columbia

on t h a t .

Our concern was expressed on t h i s q u i t e c l e a r l y by

our Deputy Minis te r a t t h e l a s t hear ing i n 1978. With a l l

due r e s p e c t t o what we have heard today and perhaps from

M r . Chandler and o t h e r people, we have concerns which

r e l a t e t o what M r . McEwen was saying. W e have a body of

water and w e have two c o n t r o l s , t h e amount of water t h a t

goes i n and t h e amount of water t h a t goes ou t . We a r e

very concerned i f w e go t i n t o a j o i n t r e f e r r a l t h a t g o t

i n t o t h e d e t a i l s of Lake Osoyoos and i t s l e v e l s t h a t could

expand t o ad jud ica t ion of t h e t rans-border flows and some

c o n s t r a i n t s , l i m i t a t i o n s , requirements with regard t o

t rans-border flows would r e f l e c t up and, we f e e l , adverse ly

a f f e c t t h e water management f o r B r i t i s h Columbia.

CHAIFOAN OLSON: But it would no t n e c e s s a r i l y

happen i n ad jud ica t ion by t h e I J C . You would only do t h a t

i f s p e c i f i c a l l y requested by government, bu t t h e r e a r e

avenues open t o t h e two j u r i s d i c t i o n s t o d e a l with t h a t

mat ter without re ference t o us.

I am j u s t wondering why t h a t course perhaps h a s n ' t .

been explored. What I am hearing you say i s t h a t you do

no t know y e t enough of how you want t o account f o r t h e

var ious scenar ios . You d o n ' t wish t o have f i rm commitments?

MR. SPENCER: May I speak? I be l i eve t h e r e i s a



(509) 4468467 95 B RADY

misunderstanding i n t h a t regard. 1

The S t a t e of Washington and t h e Province of B r i t i s h 2

columbia had nego t i a t ions and d i scuss ions underway s i n c e 7'

1969 t o t r y t o a r r i v e a t a way t o g e t a replacement s t r u c t u r

f o r Zosel Dam. We discussed having a j o i n t s tudy done under

t h e a u t h o r i t y of t h e I J C . W e could n o t agree on t h e terms

of re ference f o r such a s tudy. W e d iscussed o t h e r avenues

t o t r y t o reach a way t o r ep lace what both of us recognize

as a d e t e r i o r a t e d s t r u c t u r e . The S t a t e o f Washington

s u f f e r s a tremendous amount of f lood damage from t h e

Similkameen River which i n our es t imat ion i s p a r t of t h e

Okanagan River basin. I n ~ r i t i s h Columbia it i s no t p a r t

of t h e i r Okanagan River bas in and w e have f i n a l l y reached

an understanding with r e spec t t o Osoyoos Lake l e v e l t o d e a l

with it on a sepa ra te b a s i s .

S imi la r ly , we have agreed and understand B r i t i s h

Columbia's concern with r e spec t t o t h e i r water r i g h t s i n

B r i t i s h Columbia t o serve t h e i r i r r i g a t i o n needs and t o

19

20

t o rep lace the e x i s t i n g d e t e r i o r a t e d dam and a l s o i n t h a t

order t o e s t a b l i s h t h e l ake l e v e l s , t h e range of l ake l e v e l s

maintain flows f o r the f i s h e r i e s and opera t ion of t h a t

s t r u c t u r e so w e have reached what one might c a l l an under-

2 1

22

CAROL L. DEWEY - Court Reporter, Inc.


(509) 448-8467

96 SPENCER

s tanding o r an accommodation through t h e Cooperation Plan

and have asked for . approval from t h e I J C t o c o n s t r u c t a dam

2 I w i l l a t t h e same time no t i n t e r f e r e with t h e i r r i g h t s , I \

1

3 ( t h e i r opera t ing needs t o meet t h e i r needs wi th in B r i t i s h I

Washington and t o t h e Government of B r i t i s h Columbia which

I Columbia and w e a r e not pursuing t h e i n t e r n a t i o n a l s tudy on I f lood con t ro l i n t h e Sirnilkameen River.

So we understand q u i t e wel l t h a t l a k e l e v e l s w i l l be

a b l e t o cons t ruc t a replacement r e se rvo i r rand t h a t w e L

understand q u i t e we l l t h e phys ica l l i m i t a t i o n s and

c a p a b i l i t i e s of t h e B r i t i s h Columbia system and what t h a t

means i n terms of t h e flows t h a t w i l l come t o us . And we

,

a r e q u i t e w i l l i n g t o accept t h a t .

2

So it is on t h a t b a s i s t h a t we o f f e r e d t h e Cooperation

1 es tab l i shed through t h e o rde r and t h a t we w i l l hopeful ly be

Plan t o you f o r your review and understanding a s t o why w e

have appl ied f o r l i c e n s e t o replace . t h e dam and ask t h a t you 1 a l s o s e t t h e l ake l e v e l s f o r t h i s i n t e r n a t i o n a l body of

water. I t i s not a s i f w e do no t agree o r have an under-

s tanding a s t o how we a r e going t o g e t t o t h i s o r t h a t

w e a r e leaving th ings undone t h a t need t o be done.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: But with r e s p e c t , I sugges t , n o t I t o a misunderstanding but a d i f f e r e n t reading of t h e evidenc ? 4

MR. SPENCER: I would agree with t h a t . I CHAIPmN OLSON: Our s e c r e t a r i e s , M r . Ferguson l

and Xr. LaRoche, I should ask while we s t i l l have t h e I a p p l i c a n t before us i f t h e r e i s anything f u r t h e r w e can ask

CAROL L. DEWEY court Reporter, mc.

S. 5107 PERRY I


97 SPENCER

k

them to do or have we omitted something, before we move onto

others?

MR. FERGUSON: No.

XR. LaROCHE: No, sir.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: I would ask, if it is possible,

that you remain with us in the event the other cases we

hear might be dealt with by you.

MR. SPENCER: We have allotted another hour.

COP441ISSIONER BULEN: In that case if we run over

the hour do I read the action here that 912.5 is just as

good as far as you are concerned as the 913?

MR. SPENCER: That's correct. We would like you

to consider further information that we will submit as to

the lake level of 912.5 or 913.

COMMISSIONER BULEN: For purposes of the final

order?

MR. SPENCER: Yes.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Thank you, gentlemen.

Perhaps you could concede your places, then, for Mr. Sam

Baptiste who wishes to make a presentation.

Do sit down and be comfortable.

CHIEF SAM JAMES BAPTISTE, having been sworn on oath, did Osoyoos Indian Band testify as follows:

SHIRLEY PETERS, having been sworn on oath, did Assistant, testify as follows: Osoyoos Indian Band



(509) 448-8487 98 SPENCER

CHIEF BAPTISTE: Good afternoon. I have prepared

here and although a lot of our concerns have already been

answered and a lot of our questions already answered, I would

like to go through our brief point by point. We have five

points and I would like to go over them just for clarifica-

tion.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Excuse me, Chief. Tp?ould you

introduce your colleague for the record.

CHIEF BAPTISTE: My name is Chief Sam Baptiste.

This is Shirley Peters, my assistant.


CHIEF BAPTISTE: This brief is presented to the

International Joint Commission public hearing regarding our

concerns regarding this application. We are not opposed to

the principle of water regulation but must voice our objec-

tion to the present application until we are satisfied that

o u r concerns are d e a l t with and o u r q u e s t i o n s answered.

We 'realize that water is not being permitted to

Washington but through calculations presented by the

applicant do not represent water requirements and water flows

1. CALCULATION OF OSOYOOS LAKE TRANS-BORDER (see pages

6 & 7 of Washington State Application).

The calculation of irrigation withdrawal is simply

based upon the present irrigation requirements of 5,800 acres,

of which 3,500 is in Canada. The applicant did not take the



(509) 448-8467 BAPTISTE

5,000 acres of prime agricultural lands on our 1ndian

Reserve into consideration. Our lands will require irriga-

tion water in the near future as our agricultural and other

developments are taking place. Subsequently the calculations

of irrigation withdrawal (W) and return flow (R) are FAR

LESS than projected by the applicant. Since the nature of

this project is such that it will permanently affect our live

and development potential, we insist that the Commission take

all possible measure to ensure that our future irrigation

and domestic water supply will not be jeopardized.

I would like Shirley to go over the next few points.

1%. PETERS: 2. FLOWS REQUIRED AT OLIVER TO MEET

PlINIPlUM TRANS-BORDER FLOWS. (see paqe 11, Table 3 of

Washington State Application).

It appeared to us that the figures of Minimum Trans-

Border Flow near Oliver presented in Table 3 are much higher

than data that we can research from the Water Data for

British Columbia, Inland Water Directorate Water Resource

Branch, Water Survey of Canada. Using this data (see

Appendix Okanagan River Near Oliver - Station No. 08NMOS5) we selected the 5 minimum annual trans-border flows which

occurred in 1963, 1966, 1970, 1973 and 1977. Presumably

the applicant used the same data.

When we compared the monthly means of these 5 values

with the flows required at Oliver, as outlined by the

- CAROL L. DEWEY


SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 (509) 448-8487 100 PETERS

1 app l i can t , during c r i t i c a l i r r i g a t i o n months t h e r e was n o t

enough water flowing through t h e Ol iver s t a t i o n t o meet

requirements. Appendix 1 i l l u s t r a t e s these c a l c u l a t i o n s .

Unfortunately, J u l y , August, Septerber and October a r e the

most important i r r i g a t i o n months i n t h i s v a l l e y . For t h e

p ro tec t ion of our Canadian farmers, we s t rong ly urge t h e

Commission t o re-examine t h e source of t h e d a t a and t h e

c a l c u l a t i o n s made by t h e app l i can t and ensure t h a t no

dec is ion w i l l be made u n t i l t h e v e r i f i c a t i o n process i s

completed t o our s a t i s f a c t i o n .

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Excuse m e , M s . Pe te r s . M e a r e

f o r t u n a t e enough t o have a copy of t h i s . I am wondering

i f t h e o t h e r gentlemen who w i l l have t o respond have copies

I f not , we can sha re one up here i f we need an e x t r a .

You were r e f e r r i n g t o something i n t h e Washington

S t a t e app l i ca t ion?

!,IS. PETERS: Yes. I can go through t h i s on t h e

t a b l e i f you p r e f e r .

CHAIRMAN OLSON: No, I don ' t t h ink t h a t i s

necessary.

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: You a r e r e f e r r i n g t o t h e

Appendix t o t h e Cooperation Plan?

M S . PETERS: No, these c a l c u l a t i o n s a r e i n t h e

Appendix t o our b r i e f .

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: Oh, i n your b r i e f .

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporter, lnc.


(509) 440-8467 101 PETERS

MS. PETERS: Yes, Appendix 1, right at the end

of our brief and as far as the Cooperation Plan is

concerned, it is on page 11, Table 3, where they have their

similar calculations displayed.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Thank you very much. Sorry for

the interruption.

MS. PETERS: 3. LESS WATER AVAILABLE THAN

REQUIRED (referring to Page 11, Table 3 of Washington

State Application)

Appendix 2 of our brief shows the Monthly Mean dis-

charges from the Okanagan River near Oliver from the

official published Canadian data. These values illustrate

the significant fluctuations between monthly and between

yearly discharges. We compared the minimum discharges at

the Oliver station to the amount of water required

according to the applicant. A good 20% of the time out of

the 20 year period under examination (1958 to 1977) the flow

was not sufficient to meet the "required flow" according to

the applicant during the summer months. Once again we

urge the Commission to re-examine the calculations made by

the applicant and make no decision until we are satisfied.

Furthermore we wish to ensure that no agreement is signed

committing British Columbia to supply the State of

Washington with a minimum trans-border flow.

4. CHANGES TO WATER LEVELS AS RESULT OF NEW WORKS.



(soe) 448.8467 102 PETERS

(referring to Page 3 of Washington State Application).

Page 3 of the application states that "It is recognized

that maximum flows may reach 3,500 cfs during May through

July due to flood runoffs." We would like to know if the

new works will be able to release enough water to prevent

the lake level from rising above 913 feet even during flood

conditions.

Plate 2 of the Washington State application the dia-

gram of the lake control structure, indicates that the

minimum capacity is 2,500 cfs with the Osoyoos Lake Level

not greater than 913 feet. We question this statement

considering the trans-border flows presented in Table 3 of

the application quote 175 to 340 cfs.

5. CALCULATION OF ACRE FEET REQUIRED FOR IRRIGATION.

(see Page 6 of Washington State Application)

Irrigation withdrawal values for the Washington State

Application are based on an annual duty of 4.5 acre feet

per acre. According to the South Okanagan Lands Irrigation

District 6 to 7 acre feet are presently being applied to

irrigate land in the South Okanagan. Therefore annual duty

upon which those calculations are based should he 6 to 7

acre feet not 4.5 acre feet. A 4.5 acre feet value would

be more representative of irrigation amounts required

elsewhere in the province or Flashington.

CHIEF BAPTISTE: The last pbint in our brief

- CAROL L. DEWEY

Court Reporter. Inc. S. 5107 PERRY


103 PETERS

d e a l s w i th t h e f i s h popula t ions .

W e a l s o wish t o vo ice o u r concern over l a k e l e v e l

v a r i a t i o n s which may occur dur ing c o n s t r u c t i o n and t h e

t iming o f c o n s t r u c t i o n and t h e e f f e c t on breed ing popula-

t i o n s of f i s h and t h e i r eggs . W e a s k t h e Commission t o

ensu re t h a t c o n s t r u c t i o n p l ans and t i m e t a b l e s a r e

p resen ted t o t h e l o c a l Fede ra l F i s h e r i e s and l o c a l

P r o v i n c i a l F i sh and W i l d l i f e person f o r approva l b e f o r e

c o n s t r u c t i o n beg ins .

This morning i n O r o v i l l e a gentleman s t a t e d t h a t t h e

p l ans f o r c o n s t r u c t i o n w e r e from May u n t i l October. Those

a r e t h e gene ra l p l ans and t h i s would d i r e c t l y a f f e c t t h e

sockeye salmon run b u t I imagine they a r e aware o f t h a t .

W e t r u s t t h a t o u r concerns w i l l b e t aken i n t o s e r i o u s

c o n s i d e r a t i o n . W e w i l l t a k e every avenue t o ensu re t h a t our

i n t e r e s t s as w e l l as t h o s e of o u r Canadian farmers a r e

p r o t e c t e d by o u r Government.

Thank you very much. . .

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Chief B a p t i s t e , a r e you a

hereditary chief o r e l e c t e d c h i e f ?

CHIEF BAPTISTE: I am e l e c t e d .

CHAIRMAN OLSON: What i s t h e s i t u a t i o n on t h e

p r o v i n c i a l law? Do you have r i g h t s under t r e a t y t o t h i s

water? A r e you t a k i n g t h e p o s i t i o n you a r e s u b j e c t t a t h e

B r i t i s h Columbia Water Rights?



L

104 BAPTISTE

I CAROL L. DEWEY

CHIEF BAPTISTE: W e have never r e a l l y had t o t ake

t h e water y e t s o w e d o n ' t know.

C H A I W N OLSON: You a r e t a l k i n g about expected

uses .

CHIEF BAPTISTE: - W e have had t o purchase water

t o d a t e from t h e Southern Okanagan I r r i g a t i o n D i s t r i c t .

CHAIRMAN OLSON: You have no water r i g h t s a t a l l ?

CHIEF BAPTISTE: W e do have water l i c e n s e s t o

c e r t a i n t r i b u t a r i e s and creeks , t h a t na tu re . We have

appl ied f o r water l i c e n s e t o t h e Okanagan River f o r medium

s ized development.

CHAIWIAN OLSON: What would you l i k e , Chief?

Would you l i k e t o hear responses from t h e o t h e r s and then

engage i n conversat ion with them? I am sure t h e r e a r e some

responses p o s s i b l e from Washington and B r i t i s h Columbia.

CHIEF BAPTISTE: We would l i k e t o hear some

responses.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: That i s e n t i r e l y up t o you. Do

you want t o do them s e r i a t i m , one a t a time? Perhaps

Washington D.C. would respond genera l ly t o t h e b r i e f and

then be prepared t o -- s c r a t c h t h e D.C. Would B r i t i s h

Columbia speak t o t h e b r i e f genera l ly?

MR. BRADY: J u s t a s a genera l comment, -- M r . McNeil i s t h e exper t on t h e c a l c u l a t i o n s of t h e s e

flows -- t hese flows, a s I s a i d e a r l i e r , --



(509) 448-8467 105 BAPTISTE

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Before w e g e t i n t o t h e d e t a i l s ,

t h e two p o i n t s t h e Chief i s making, can w e have a response

t o those , t h e one with r e spec t t o uses and whether they a r e

adequately provided f o r i n your understanding of t h e

a v a i l a b l e resources i n t h e r i v e r ? Are you guaranteeing

flows on t h e b a s i s t h a t should t h e water l i c e n s e app l i ca t ion

come forward, it could be granted under - the Cooperative

Plan with Washington?

MR. BRADY: Without quest ion. They w i l l r ece ive

prime cons idera t ion before t h e t rans-border . '

CHAIRMAN OLSON: But would it have an e f f e c t on

maintaining guaranteed flows?

MR. BRADY: There i s no t a guaranteed flow.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: I th ink t h a t i s t h e language

from t h e t r e a t y . I f t h a t i s wrong, p lease c o r r e c t m e .

You assu re us t h a t should an a p p l i c a t i o n be made f o r

s u b s t a n t i a l i r r i g a t i o n water, t h a t t h e g ran t ing o r with-

holding of t h a t l i c e n s e would no t depend t o any e x t e n t on

t h e maintenance of t h e Cooperative Agreement with Washinoton:

I MR. BRADY: Tha t ' s c o r r e c t .

CHAIRP.UW OLSON: There i s enough water the re?

Bu t would t h a t r e q u i r e Okanagan Lake t o be d i s s i p a t e d ?

W e have heard t h a t t h e in-flow i n t o t h a t i s simply n o t enougl

I a m confused on t h a t .

MR. BRADY: There would be two i s s u e s . One is t h e



(509) 448-8467 BRADY

t r a d e o f f between t rans-border f lows and a p p l i c a t i o n from

t h e Band, from t h e Ind ian people . Then i f t h a t i s t h e

i s s u e , t hen d e f i n i t e l y t h e l i c e n s e , t h e wate r , would go t o

t h e Ind ian people.

C H A I R E M OLSON: Is t h a t i n t h e Cooperat ive

Agreement as t h e p r i o r i t y ?

I/m. B m D Y : The Cooperat ive Agreement d o e s n ' t

add res s t h a t i s s u e . The Cooperat ive Agreement s imply

addresses f lows t h a t w i l l c r o s s t h e bord

CEAIwpAN OLSON: Would it n o t make sense , t hen ,

t o r e s e r v e t h a t p o s i t i o n i n t h e Cooperation Agreement

r a t h e r t han have it a s an i m p l i c a t i o n ?

XR. BPADY: I t h i n k it i s an i m p l i c a t i o n because

it a p p l i e s t o a l l f u t u r e a p p l i c a t i o n s f o r water l i c e n s e s

i n B r i t i s h Columbia.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Could you d i r e c t m e t o t h a t

paragraph i n t h e Cooperat ive Agreement.

!lR. ERADY: On page 3 under Drought Y e a r Operat ion

o r under Second o r Subsequent Drought Year, it says , "The

fo l lowing procedures w i l l be followed a s f a r a s p o s s i b l e . . . . I

Then w e go on f u r t h e r i n t h e Trans-Border Flows and say ,

" . . . a s f a r as was p r a c t i c a b l e ...." Then i n t h e opening

paragraph on page 1 w e make it abundant ly c l e a r , I b e l i e v e :

" I t i s recognized by t h e S t a t e and t h e

Province t h a t t h e management of t h e Okanagan River



(509) -8467

system i n E r i t i s h Columbia i s t h e r e s p o n s i b i l i t y of

t h e government o f ~ r i t i s h Columbia and t h a t t h e

management of t h e Okana~jan River system i n Washington

i s t h e r e s p o n s i b i l i t y of t h e S t a t e of Ciashington."

COmIISSIONER McEWEN: Chief B a p t i s t e , how many

a c r e s do you i r r i g a t e now?

CEIEF EAPTISTE: 800?

COfiD.IISSIONER McEWEN: And t h o s e 800 a c r e s a r e

inc luded i n t h e t o t a l 5,800 a c r e s t h a t a r e i r r i g a t e d ; i s

t h a t c o r r e c t ? Approximately.

CBIEF BAPTISTE: I imagine, b u t I d o n ' t r e a l l y

t h i n k so .

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: You d o n ' t know? Xell, I

would q u e s t i o n M r . M c N e i l o r M r . Brady or whoever on t h e

t o t a l number of a c r e s . I unders tand i r r i g a t e d i n t h i s

b a s i n i s 5,800, approximately 3,500 i n E r i t i s h Columbia and

2,300 i n t h e S t a t e o f Washington t o t a l i n g approximately

5,800 a c r e s i r r i g a t e d land ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?

MR. BRADY: You are t a l k i n g about from Osoyoos

Lake?

CO:4PIISSIONER NcEWEN: From Osoyoos Lake.

MR. BFADY: lioughly 2,800 on t h e Canadian s i d e of

t h e border t h a t i s p r e s e n t l y i r r i g a t e d from Osoyoos Lake and

I w i l l have t o t u r n t o Chief B a p t i s t e . '

I d o n ' t b e l i e v e t h e r e i s any s i g n i f i c a n t l a n d i r r i g a t e d



(509) 443-8487

Indian land i r r i g a t e 2 from t h e l a k e ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?

CHIEF BAPTISTE: T h a t ' s c o r r e c t .

COMTJlISSIONER McEWEN: Chief B a p t i s t e , you s a i d

500 a c r e s . Where a r e they i r r i g a t e d from?

CHIEF BAPTISTE: Some a r e i r r i g a t e d from p r i v a t e

l a k e s on t h e r e s e r v e , c reek , and w e g e t a p o r t i o n i r r i g a t e d

from t h e south , t h e southern Okanagan I r r i g a t i o n D i s t r i c t ,

approximately 303 a c r e s t h a t comes from t h e Okanagan River

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: Where d i d I g e t t h e number

5,800 a c r e s p r e s e n t l y i r r i g a t e d from Osoyoos Lake?

CHIEF BAPTISTE: T h a t ' s t h e t o t a l , both Canadian

and t h e United S t a t e s t h a t I imagine g e t s i r r i g a t e d from

t h e southern Okanagan.

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: Poss ib ly I g o t t h a t from

reading your b r i e f .

CHIEF BAPTISTE: W e g o t t h i s 5,800 from t h e

M S . PETERS: Y e s , w e a r e quot ing t h e a p p l i c a t i o n

with t h e 5 ,800 and I d o n ' t know how they came about and

g o t t h a t f i g u r e . I d o n ' t know whether they a r e j u s t t ak ing

it from Osoyoos Lake o r whether they a r e inc luding o t h e r

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Would somebody p l e a s e respond.

COLYMISSIONER McEWEN: I n t h e a p p l i c a t i o n on page



(509) 4488467

109 BAPTISTE

6, excuse me, on page 7. It starts on page 6 and I quote:

"Irrigation withdrawals are the only ones

considered significant in these calculations.

Withdrawal values are based on an annual duty of 4.5

acre-feet per acre" and may I say -youCaLready referred

to that, and then it goes on "5,800 irrigated acres

(3,500 acres in Canada, and 2,250 acres in the united

States)." That's in the State of Washington's

application that it is 5,800 acres. Is that now not agreed

to as the number of acres being irrigated?

MS. PETERS: I think we are not contesting it is

5,800 now being irrigated. Our point is in addition to that

5,800, there is an additional 5,000 acres on reserve land.

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: I understand but the first

thing I am trying to pin down is the 5,800 acre figure in

the State of Washington's application to this Commission.

Is that now changed?

COMMISSIONER BULEN: Where is Washington at this

point?

CHAIRMAN OLSON: I am wondering if we could make

more headway if one representative of Washington and one '

from British Columbia would go through the brief seriatim

and make such appropriate responses as you can. You do have

in mind the general concerns expressed and perhaps if you

could do that for us before we get into specific questions.

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporrer, Inc.


(509) 448-6467

PETERS

MR. MOOS: M r . Chairman, M r . Spencer w i l l respond

t o t h a t but i n l i s t e n i n g t o t h e previous testimony, it

appears t o m e t h a t t h e Sta . te of Washington would p r e f e r t o

answer t h e i r testimony s t e p by s t e p i n a manner where we can

go back over t h e p a r t i c u l a r s r a t h e r than allowing ourse lves

t o g e t i n t o a debat ing c o n t e s t on s p e c i f i c f i g u r e s and you

have t o remember t h a t I , along with my s t a f f , a r e s t i l l

under oa th and we want t h i s p r e c i s e , but i f you want some--

CHAIRMAN OLSON: I understand , t h a t , bu t wi th one

s l i g h t modif icat ion. Would it he lp i f Madam r a i s e d

ques t ions with your gentlemen o r would you r a t h e r she l e f t

it a l l -- MR. MOOS: I w i l l l eave t h a t t o t h e wisdom of t h e

Chairman.

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: Mr. Chairman, i f I may.

Nr. Moos, I th ink my ques t ion is no t complicated a t

a l l . The top words, t h e number on page 7 of t h e S t a t e of

Washington's a p p l i c a t i o n and I quote ," ... 5,800 i r r i g a t e d

a c r e s (3 ,550 a c r e s i n Canada, and 2,250 a c r e s i n t h e

United S t a t e s ) ". Is t h a t c o r r e c t ?

MR. SPENCER: Tha t ' s c o r r e c t .

MR. MOOS: And t h e previous testimony says you '

a r e not counting 5,000 a c r e s t h a t have no t been i r r i g a t e d

but t h a t i s t h e i r p o t e n t i a l ?



(509) 4468467 111 MOOS

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: Now, l e t m e s ay t o t h e

w i t n e s s e s be fo re us now, my unders tanding i s t h i s Commission

does n o t a l l o c a t e water and I t h i n k you are aware o f t h a t

and t h i s hear ing i s n ' t f o r t h a t purpose, b u t w e are n o t

unsympathetic w i t h t h e concerns you have and p o s s i b l y it

can be responded t o i n t h i s forum.

I guess t h e q u e s t i o n i s , wi th t h e new c o n t r o l s t r u c t u r e

which b a s i c a l l y I t h i n k you have g o t t h e s ense o f t h i s , i s

t o r e p l a c e t h e d e t e r i o r a t e d s t r u c t u r e . I t i s n ' t going t o

g r e a t l y change t h e c o n t r o l on Osoyoos Lake b u t can t h i s

system i r r i g a t e 5,000 a d d i t i o n a l a c r e s over t h e 5,800 t h a t

a r e now i r r i g a t e d because p o t e n t i a l l y , Chie f , a s I under-

s t and , you have 5,000 a c r e s ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?

CHIEF BAPTISTE: Y e s .

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: Can anyone respond t o t h a t ?

MR. BRADY: I w i l l have a c rack a t it.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Would you t a k e t h e microphone.

I t i s more d i f f i c u l t t o hea r up h e r e t han it i s down t h e r e .

MR. BRADY: I n o r d e r t o i r r i g a t e an a d d i t i o n a l

5,000 a c r e s from Osoyoos Lake t h e r e would be two ways o f

doing it. One would be t o p u t i n a pump w i t h a low enough

i n t a k e t o suck t h e l a k e down which would cause s i g n i f i c a n t

problems around t h e l ake . The second would be t o r e l e a s e

wate rs from upstream s t o r a g e f o r t h o s e purposes.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: But t h a t i s n o t c o n s i s t e n t wi th

i



(509) 448-8467 112 BRADY ,

what you s a i d e a r l i e r about t h e maintenance of t h e flow

mentioned, I ' m so r ry .

MR. BRADY: Throwing o u t t h e f i r s t opt ion a s n o t

being r e a l i s t i c , i f t h e Indian Band appl ied f o r and received

water l i c e n s e t o i r r i g a t e an a d d i t i o n a l 5,000 a c r e s using

Osoyoos Lake a s t h e source, then t h a t would be cont ingent I on r e l e a s e s of water from t h e upstream s to rage , upstream lak ,

t o meet those n e e d s . , I f , i n f a c t , t h a t cou ldn ' t be done

without -- i f t h a t cou ldn ' t be done -- i f t h e r e had t o be. 1 I

a s a c r i f i c e made i n o rde r t o do t h a t , . t h e n it would be

trans-border flows.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: That, I thought, was my ques t ion

e a r l i e r when you assured m e it had no bearing on t h e t r a n s -

border flows, I ' m so r ry .

MR. BRADY: what-I was t r y i n g t o say e a r l i e r was

t h a t t h e t rans-border flows would not d i c t a t e t h a t , t h e

adjudica t ion of t h a t l i c e n s e .

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Senator Totten. I COMMISSIONER TOTTEN:. I have a response t o t h e

Ch ie f ' s reques t i n m y f i l e t h a t t h e State o f ' l a s h i n g t o n , I

be l ieve , responded t o with t h i s o r i g i n a l telegram regarding

t h e ques t ions t h a t a r e r a i s e d , a t l e a s t t h r e e of t h e

ques t ions r a i s e d i n t h e b r i e f presented t o us regarding

f u t u r e i r r i g a t i o n needs, t rans-border flows and f i s h e r i e s .

My f i r s t quest ion says, Chief received those. I f he

CAROL L. DEWEY Court 'Reporter, Inc.


(509) 448-8467 113 BRADY

has, do they s a t i s f y t h e ques t ions r a i s e d i n t h e b r i e f ?

CHIEF BAPTISTE: I rece ived a te legram bu t I d o n ' t

t h i n k it has answered a l l t h e ques t ions .

I would l i k e t o add something h e r e because M r . Brady

mentioned t h a t i r r i g a t i n g 5,000 a c r e s from Osoyoos Lake and

t h e r e s u l t s of t h a t . F i r s t of a l l , t h e 5,000 a c r e s i s n ' t

d i r e c t l y on Osoyoos Lake, maybe h a l f of t h a t wou-ld B e

d i r e c t l y on ~ s o y o o s Lake and t h e remaining h a l f would be

f u r t h e r up t h e v a l l e y b u t t h e water would be s t i l l taken o u t

of t h a t genera-1 southern Okanagan I r r i g a t i o n D i s t r i c t sy s t em,

COMMISSIONER TOTTEN: Did t h e telegram you

rece ived answer your ques t ions?

CHIEF BAPTISTE: Not a l l of them, no.

COMMISSIONER TOTTEN: What d i d n ' t it answer?

'CHIEF BAPTISTE: W e l l , t h e c a l c u l a t i o n s f o r one.

COMMISSIONER TOTTEN: On t h e t rans-border flow?

CHIEF BAPTISTE: Y e s , when I f i r s t g o t up I s a i d

t h a t a l o t of our ques t ions had been answered. \<hat it t o l d

us was t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l J o i n t Commission is not committed

t o those t rans-border flows.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: For my own information, though,

I would l i k e t o be a s s a t i s f i e d a s you a r e on those mat te rs .

I would l i k e t o go back t o t h e o f f e r t h a t M r . Moos gave us

t o go through t h e b r i e f and make such comments a s a r e

appropr i a t e . Then, of course , t h e ones t h a t a r e se l f - ev iden t



(509) 448-8467 1 1 4 TOTTEN

j u s t not respond.

MR. SPENCER: I w i l l be very b r i e f . With r e s p e c t

t o t h e c a l c u l a t i o n s on Osoyoos Lake Trans-Border Flows,

we would p r e f e r t o respond i n wr i t ing because it t a k e s

t i m e , t o look a t t h e d a t a they a r e quest ioning and do some

c a l c u l a t i o n s . W e w i l l have t o do t h a t with t h e government

of B r i t i s h Columbia because they a r e t h e ones whose d a t a

we worked wi th i n making t h e s e c a l c u l a t i o n s .

MS. PETERS: A s long a s a t t h i s po in t t h e r e a r e

going t o be no agreements signed saying, yes , we w i l l

provide X cubic f e e t per second t o Washington, then our

concerns a r e s a t i s f i e d and w e have been assured t h a t we

w i l l have t h e water r i g h t s even i f it means s a c r i f i c i n g

t h e trans-border flows a s quoted i n t h e app l i ca t ion .

CHAIRMAN OLSON: What i s t h e na tu re o f . y o u r s

s a t i s f a c t i o n ? How does t h a t a r i s e ?

M S . PETERS: I would d e f i n i t e l y l i k e t o go throug

t h e c a l c u l a t i o n s a s w e l l j u s t for c u r i o s i t y ' s sake, bu t t h e

na tu re of t h e s a t i s f a c t i o n a r i s e s t h a t t h e water w i l l be , '

t h e r e t o t h e b e s t of ~ r i t i s h Columbia's a b i l i t y t o provide

us with t h a t water. ~ h e y ' c a n do' more. Tha t ' s a l l t h e wate

they have, and i f it is not going down through t h e system,

then w e a r e no t going t o l o s e it. . -

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Have you received l e g a l advice

t o t h a t e f f e c t ?



115 PETERS

MS. PETERS: W e a r e j u s t informed t h a t by

M r . Brady.

COMMISSIONER BULEN: And t h a t i s your

understanding, M r . Spencer, i n t h e S t a t e of Washington

t h e r e is no s u r p r i s e s ?

MR. SPENCER: A s f a r a s B r i t i s h Columbia i s

concerned, they would have t o use s t o r e d water. I t appears

t o s a t i s f y t h a t need. How they do t h a t and what l e g a l

r i g h t s they do t h a t with i s e n t i r e l y t h e i r business . The

quest ion here i s we do no t use 5,000 a d d i t i o n a l a c r e s i n

t h e c a l c u l a t i o n s of t h e t rans-border flows and c e r t a i n l y

t h a t is almost impossible f o r us t o t ake i n t o account

depending on how B r i t i s h Columbia chooses t o meet these

needs. I f they,.met $hose needs o u t of s to rage , then it

w i l l be changed except tak ing i n t o account r e t u r n flows.

That would be something one could ca lcula te . '

A s f a r a s c a l c u l a t i o n s again, we w i l l provide t h e

Commission and copies t o t h e Band, our response t o them.

The next ques t ion and another of t h e c a l c u l a t i o n s

i s whether o r no t t h e s t r u c t u r e w i l l pass w a t e r dur ing

f lood flows which may reach 3,500 c f s . Again, w e w i l l

have t o look a t t h e design of t h e s t r u c t u r e t o see whether

it would pass t h a t much.

The next po in t i s w e used 4 . 5 ac re - fee t per a c r e fok

t h e i r r i g a t i o n water. That is a s tandard we use i n our

A

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporter. Inc. .


(509) 448-8467

116 SPENCER

s t a t e and t h e recommendation here i s t h a t we should be

using 6 t o 7 acre- fee t . W e would be g lad t o use t h a t . My

hunch i s t h a t would simply i n c r e a s e t h e r e t u r n flow and

no t have t h a t much e f f e c t , u l t i m a t e l y , on t h e trans-border

With r e s p e c t t o f i s h populat ions, we would be very

g lad t o cooperate i n any way poss ib le t o c o n s t r u c t t h e

f a c i l i t y a t t h e c o r r e c t t i m e and i n t h e c o r r e c t way such

t h a t we minimize t h e e f f e c t on migrat ing f i s h and t h e

salmon t h a t come up i n t h e l ake through t h e Okanagan River.

I f t h e Commission wants t o e s t a b l i s h a procedure f o r us t o

do t h a t , w e w i l l follow t h a t procedure. We have t o follow

our own s t a t e f i s h and game, United S t a t e s F ish and Wi ld l i f e

Service. W e have a dozen of a u t h o r i t i e s t o follow. W e

w i l l be g lad t o submit t o your a u t h o r i t y , too , i n t h a t

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Counsel, any quest ions?

W e l l , anything f u r t h e r you would want t o t e l l us about.

M S . PETERS: I th ink w e have p r e t t y w e l l covered

everything except po in t 4 , t h e f i r s t paragraph. I t h a s n ' t

been answered t o my s a t i s f a c t i o n t h a t whether o r no t t h e

new c o n t r o l s t r u c t u r e w i l l be a b l e t o accommodate flows up

t o 3,500 c f s during f lood runoff . I th ink t h e Vi l l age of

Osoyoos would a l s o be i n t e r e s t e d i n t h i s and t h e l o c a l

r e s i d e n t s .



(509) 448-8467 117 SPENCER

I f it cannot accommodate t h a t kind of runof f , t h a t

means l a k e l e v e l s would rise above 913 f e e t ;

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Can we'have an answer t o t h a t

from t h e design people?

MR. SPENCER: I j u s t d i d . W e d o n ' t know t h e .

answer t o t h a t and w e w i l l have t o respond i n w r i t i n g .

CHAIRMAN OLSON: You w i l l w r i t e t o us and w e

w i l l pass it on o r where, t o t h e Band?

MR. SPENCER: W e w i l l w r i t e t o you and a l s o submit

copies t o t h e Band and o t h e r . p a r t i e s .


FROM THE AUDIENCE: Could I ask a ques t ion ,

M r . Chairman?

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Chief B a p t i s t e , do you have -- CHIEF BAPTISTE: That j u s t about does it a s f a r

a s our b r i e f . That j u s t about wraps it up a s f a r a s w e

a r e concerned.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Thank you very much f o r coming.

Did you want t o pose ques t ions t o Chief B a p t i s t e ?

FROM THE AUDIENCE: I want t o b r i n g something up.

.CHAIRMAN OLSON: J u s t a moment. Thank you very

much, Chief.

W e have t h r e e o t h e r formal submissions which w e should

perhaps t a k e , b u t I should ask i f anyone has t o l eave wi th

o t h e r appointments. W e can c e r t a i n l y change t h e o rde r .



(509) 448-8467 118 SPENCER

MR. McGINNIS, having been sworn on o a t h , d i d Rancher t e s t i f y a s follows:

MR. McGINNIS: My name i s McGinnis, Ol ive r and

Osoyoos. I have a ranch and run a l o t of c a t t l e and I have

been here f o r yea r s and years and years .

I would l i k e t o ask t h e Commissioners, br ing i t t o

t h e i r a t t e n t i o n t h a t t h e Indian Band has brought up, q u i t e

r i g h t l y , t h a t t h e r e i s 5,000 a c r e s y e t t o be i r r i g a t e d . But

I want you t o remember t h e r e must be, and I am s u r e t h e r e is ,

another 2,000 a c r e s around here t h a t belongs t o t h e

government and p r i v a t e l y t h a t i n t h e next 10, 1 2 , 15 years

i s going t o r e q u i r e water.


MR. McGINNIS: I th ink t h a t ought t o be very, very-

t h a t ' s r i g h t . There i s a l l k inds of land here y e t and with

t h e power and t h e pumps we can t ake advantage of it and w e

cou ldn ' t before.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Y e s , t h e p o t e n t i a l of t h e v a l l e y

has no t y e t been f u l l y explo i ted .

MR. McGINNIS: Tha t ' s r i g h t .

CHAIRMAN OLSON: M r . Lockie Miles would l i k e t o

speak f o r t h e Vi l lage of Osoyoos.

LOCKIE MILES, having been sworn on oa th , d i d Administrator o f t h e t e s t i f y a s follows: Vi l lage of Osoyoos



(509) 448-8487 McGINNIS

MR. MILES: Gentlemen, my name is Lockie Miles.

I am the Administrator of the Village of Osoyoos and I

appear before you this afternoon on behalf of the Village.

We were happy to receive a copy of the application by

the State of Washington for the new control works for the

international waters of Osoyoos Lake.

The Village is pleased that a new structure is proposed

A t this time I would like to pay compliment to the officials . .

of the -~osel Dam and the Department of Ecology, Washington . - I .

State. I don't think anybody could have received more . .

cooperation than we have in the Village from these officials

We endorse the application with one minor exception.

This winter with drought conditions anticipated, water

was held back in the Canadian Okanagan lake system. Then

this spring the Province and the Okanagan experienced one

of the wettest springs ever.

The result was flooding with an eventual high of 913.4

feet -- that's Canadian -- which caused extensive flooding in our area both village and rural areas. Staff were hired

to monitor the lake three times . daily . and observe the

action of the water on our lower lying areas. The staff

went out and observed and talked to the people concerned.

As a result of these observations we would request

'that a maximum allowable height be set at 912.5, and I

would like in your brief if you would put U.S., and I will

I I CAROL L. DEWEY


SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 120 MILES (509) 446-8487

dea l with t h a t i n a minute. Over p a s t yea r s we have found

concerns p r imar i ly because of wind and wave a c t i o n t h a t

sometimes add two f e e t a s a damage f a c t o r t o l o c a l low-

ly ing homes i n t h e Osoyoos Lake a rea .

Our p o s i t i o n i s almost i d e n t i c a l t o t h a t of t h e

Osoyoos r u r a l a r e a who have taken a p o s i t i o n o f , 1. b e l i e v e ,

912 f e e t . A s you can apprec ia te , maybe w e a r e only

t a l k i n g about t h r e e inches. I t h i n k your comment about t h e

cooperation was it would be n ice i f w e could g e t it down

t o t h r e e inches. Sometimes those t h r e e inches can make

q u i t e a d i f f e r e n c e when it comes down with some of our

l o c a l f looding.

I n conclusion, w e a r e pleased with t h e proposal ,

congra tu la te t h e S t a t e of Washington f o r i t s i n i t i a t i v e and

reques t your a t t e n t i o n t o t h i s b r i e f a s f a r a s what a c t u a l

l ake l e v e l i s set. I th ink we a r e q u i t e happy a t 912.5,

i f somebody would say w e a r e not going t o have wind a c t i o n ,

we a r e no t going t o have wave a c t i o n , bu t we know w e g e t

them. Perhaps t h e p o s i t i o n of t h e Rural Ratepayers' i s

912 and knowing we might have t h e s e o t h e r v a r i a b l e s , it'

might be more acceptable .

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Thank you. I understand you

have a p o s i t i o n on 912.5, Washington.

MR. BRADY: We have discussed t h i s today.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: For t h e record , what w a s your



(509) 448-0467 1 2 1 MILES

response?

MR. BRADY: Our response i s t h a t under t h e

cooperat ion Plan 910.5-913 t h a t i s t h e range w e a r e going

t o f i n e tune t h e upper l i m i t based on i n p u t today and,

-of course , t h e Commission i t s e l f may wish t o make a

d e c i s i o n on t h a t .

CHAIRMAN OLSON: I t h i n k you may be a b l e t o

accommodate f u r t h e r r eques t s .

COMMISSIONER BULEN: What w e a r e t a l k i n g about

here 912.5-913 I read t h e newspaper c l i p p i n g and t h e

follow-up and t h e r e were s e v e r a l r e fe rences by yourse l f

and I understand Environment Canada came down and t h e r e

w e r e in te rv iews and I assume you have viewed damages. Has

it be analyzed? A r e t h e r e f i g u r e s a v a i l a b l e t o s u s t a i n

your p o s i t i o n ?

MR. MILES: I t h i n k most of t h e damage was b a s i c a l -

l y s u p e r f i c i a l . There were some f looded basements. W e

could g ive t h e Commission a l l t h a t d a t a i f they wish. I

t h i n k t h e comment was made t h a t w e a r e t a l k i n g about drought

yea r s which may be a one i n seven and I t h i n k , q u i t e f r a n k l y ,

t h e r e may even tua l ly end up being some type of a saw.

Perhaps water kep t f o r drought y e a r s may have a d i s t i n c t . *

advantage t o some of t h e people who w i l l be adverse ly

a f f e c t e d by t h e f lood per iods . Maybe some form of compen-

s a t i o n f a c t o r could be arranged. I t h i n k it i s l i k e l y a



(509) 448-8467 1 2 2 MILES

g i v e and t a k e p r o p o s i t i o n as f a r as what l a k e l e v e l s end

COMMISSIONER BULEN: A f t e r '75 wi th your b u i l d i n g

requirements you have no f u r t h e r problem?

MR. MILES: That w a s o u r i n t e n t i o n i n 1975 i n t h e

coope ra t ion w i t h t h e Min i s t ry o f t h e Environment t h a t a l l

t h e p rope r ty s i n c e t h a t t i m e wouldn ' t s u f f e r any damages a t

t h i s l a k e l e v e l . I t i s j u s t t h o s e b u i l t p r i o r t o 1975.

COMMISSIONER BULEN: Do you have any of fhand

percen tages o f pre- '75?

MR. MILES: No, I d o n ' t ,

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Thank you ve ry much.

MR. MILES: Thank you, gentlemen.

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: M r . Miles, who w a s

r e s p o n s i b l e f o r t h e app le s? Was t h a t you?

MR. MILES: I t w a s through t h e V i l l a g e o f Osoyoos

and t h e r u r a l area.

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: Thank you very much. I hav

had one Golden Del ic ious and one Red De l i c ious and even

though I come from McIntosh count ry of Ups ta te New York,

t hey a r e darned good app le s .

MR. MILES: Thank you very much. I t h i n k t h e r e

a r e s t i l l a p p l e s i n t h e back f o r t h e b e n e f i t of t h e

audience, i f t hey wish.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: M r . Douglas F r a s e r who w i l l



(509) 448-8487 123 MILES

speak f o r t h e Osoyoos Rural Ratepayerst Association.

DOUGLAS FRASER, having been sworn 6n oa th , d id Director t e s t i f y a s follows:

FLORENCE WHITMORE, Secre tary Osoyoos Rural Ratepayers' Associat ion

MR. FRASER: I want t o in t roduce M r s . Whitmore

who is Secre tary of t h e Associat ion and co-author of t h e

b r i e f .

Brief t o t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l J o i n t Commission by t h e

Osoyoos Rural Ratepayerst Associat ion, r e t h e S t a t e of

Washington's a p p l i c a t i o n f o r Order of Approval.

Gentlemen, w e a r e pleased t o endorse t h e a p p l i c a t i o n

except f o r one i t e m .

Our one p o i n t of concern i s wi th t h e proposal , i n

drought years , t o impound water i n Osoyoos Lake t o a l e v e l

of 913 f e e t , t o a s s i s t i n meeting Washington S t a t e i r r i g a -

t i o n needs i n drought years .

When w e had n o t i c e of t h e proposal i n March o r Apr i l ,

w e f e l t w e could l i v e with 913, s o made no ob jec t ion .

High water -- s t r ange ly enough i n a year of expected

low runoff -- reaching 913.4 on June 15 th , caused us t o

change our minds, and on June 17th w e wrote t o M r . D. G.

Chance, Secre tary of t h e Canadian Sect ion a s follows:

Dear M r . Chance:

Re t h e proposal t o maintain Osoyoos Lake a t 913 i n

b



(509) 448-8467 1 2 4 FRASER - WHITMORE

drought years t o provide re se rve s to rage f o r Washington ,

S t a t e i r r i g a t i o n needs:

We d i d no t submit a b r i e f re t h i s , f e e l i n g a t t h e t i m e

we could l i v e with 913.

Since then w e have had experience with 913 and w e f i n d

t h a t problems occur below 913.

The enclosed news i t e m from t h e "Osoyoos Times" of

June 11 th shows t h e r e a r e problems below 913.

Water i n basements occurred a t 912.5 - s o a d e s i r a b l e

l ake l e v e l would be 9 1 2 , r a t h e r than 913, and c e r t a i n l y

not t o exceed 912.5.

There i s a l s o a t t ached a c l ipp ing from t h e Osoyoos

T i m e s of June 11, 1981.

M r . W. A. P l a s k e t t , Emergency Measures Organizer f o r

t h i s high water per iod , logged 76 phone c a l l s re water i n '

basements and damage from f looding and eros ion of lakeshore

p roper t i e s . Phone c a l l s began a t t h e 912.5 l e v e l .

Most of t h e s e came from t h e r u r a l a r e a a s most of t h e

lakeshore houses and p r o p e r t i e s a r e i n t h e r u r a l a r e a of

So a l e v e l of 912 a s a d e s i r a b l e maximum is s t i l l our

recommendation. This g ives a s a f e t y margin of only s i x

inches - l i t t l e enough a s shown by t h e circumstance of high

water t h i s year i n what was expected t o be a year of low



(509) 448-8467 1 2 5 FRASER

"Man proposes But nature disposes."

So, while wishing to assist in irrigation needs of

Washington State, 912 is regarded by us as the level beyond

which problems are created for residents on the Canadian

side. Granted that these problems are not catastrophic,

they are nevertheless matters of concern.

In closing this submission, we wonder why the

Cooperation Plan for Osoyoos Lake Levels and Trans-Border

Flows, in seeking to alleviate a drought emergency for

growers of Washington State, did not look farther north

than Osoyoos Lake. Vaseux Lake, Skaha Lake and Okanagan

Lake all have control dams. As a guess, a couple of

inches more water in Vaseux and Skaha, an inch more in

Okanagan Lake, would be equivalent to the storage difference

between 912 and 913 on Osoyoos Lake.

The Village of Osoyoos also expressed it concern in

a letter of Mr. Chance, and endorses this submission by the

Rural Ratepayers' Association.

Thank you.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Anything more, Mrs. Whitmore?

MRS. WHITMORE: No. . - . CHAIRMAN OLSON: Mr. McNeil, in speaking of the

control structures upstream, you didn't elaborate very much

on what is now the proposal from this organization. Your



(509) 448-8467 126 FRASER

con tex t might be a b i t broader than it had been. A r e you

a b l e t o speak t o t h e mat te r?

MR. McNEIL: For i r r i g a t i o n around t h e Canadian

s i d e on Osoyoos Lake c e r t a i n l y w e would no te t h a t s t o r a g e i s

throughout t h e Canadian Okanagan and any water t h a t i s

s t o r e d on Osoyoos Lake between 912 and 913 on t h e American

s i d e of t h e border i s n o t , I t h i n k , our concern.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: No, b u t t h e proposal is t h a t

i n s t e a d of using Osoyoos Lake f o r t h e f u l l amount of

s t o r a g e r e s e r v e f o r drought yea r s t h a t some a t t e n t i o n might

be given t o p u t t i n g more water i n t h e o t h e r two l a k e s

upstream which would seem t o make sense o r a r e t h e r e such

volumes?

MR. McNEIL: I n a drought year , you say p u t more

i n . There i s n ' t more. W e a r e conserving every th ing w e

poss ib ly can and t h i s was an e x t r a way of cap tu r ing water

flowing i n below those o t h e r c o n t r o l s t r u c t u r e s and

cap tu r ing it and sav ing it t o use l a t e r i n t h e year .

CHAIRMAN OLSON: But w e w e r e t o l d t h i s morning

t h e r e i s almost no in-flow i n t o Osoyoos Lake below t h e

f i r s t - above s t r u c t u r e which is near Ol ive r .

MR. McNEIL: I was r e f e r r i n g t o t h e s o r t of

mid-August through September per iod . I n a lmost any year

t h e r e would be more runoff dur ing A p r i l , May, June, a s

t h e snow m e l t s . There i s always some snow i n t h e h i l l s and



(509) 4468467 127 McNEIL

t h a t i s t h e water we w i l l be capturing. When I s a i d t h e r e

wouldn't be 100 c f s a t t i m e s i n Osoyoos Lake, I was

r e f e r r i n g t o l a t e summer when t h i s a r e a i s parched and

burnt up and t h e r e is j u s t no in-flow of any apprec iable

amount whatsoever.

CHAIRElAN OLSON: M r . Spencer has t o leave , so

i f anyone wants t o have a t him you have two minutes.

No quest ions? Thank you very much, M r . Spencer.

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: I have one ques t ion f o r

M r . McNeil.

M r . McNeil, Okanagan Lake i s s u b s t a n t i a l l y l a r g e r

than Osoyoos Lake; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ?

MR. McNEIL: Y e s .

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: By how many t i m e s t h e

volume of water i n Okanagan a s compared t o Osoyoos?

MR. McNEIL: The su r face a rea of Okanagan Lake

i s 84,000 ac res . The su r face of Osoyoos Lake i s 5,700 of

which 3,700 a r e i n Canada.

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: So t h e su r face a r e a i s

something over 13 times t h e su r face a r e a of Osoyoos Lake.

Do I understand t h a t Okanagan i s a l s o a considerably deeper

l ake than Osoyoos Lake? , '

MR. McNEIL: Y e s .

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: Is Okanagan a s s e n s i t i v e t o

s i x inches var iance . in- l e v e 1 , a s Osoyoos because w e a r e t o l d



(509) 448-8467

here by Mr. Miles, the administrator, that lowering it to

912.5 or as Mr. Fraser suggests 912, six inches or a foot,

would make a considerable difference on their problem.

Is Okanagan Lake as sensitive to six inches or a foot

as far as property damage?

MR. McNEIL: It would depend where the six inches

was.

COMMISSIO3ER McEWEM: I assume it would level out .

so it would be about the same, but I am not a hydrologist.

MR. McNEIL: If the lake is full and you added a

foot onto Okanagan Lake, you would have considerable damage.

CHAI-SMAN OLSON: You are talking about an inch?

MR. McNEIL: I understood the Commissioner to say

six inches or a foot.

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: Six inches on Osoyoos .

wouldn't be six inches on Okanagan because it is 13 times,

more than 13 times as large an area.

while I am thinking about it, if I can just draw an

analogy. My home is on the banks of the Saint Lawrence

and we have Lake Ontario upstream from us and Montreal

Harbor which is downriver from us and the people on Lake

Ontario are perenially requesting lower levels but a

hydrologist once explained to me that the problem was that

if you lowered Lake Ontario one inch you raised Montreal

Harbor one foot, or as he said, it is like trying to drain a



(509) 448-8467 129 McNEIL

bath tub i n t o a teacup.

Here, -- and it occurs t o m e poss ib ly happi ly -- t h e

s i t u a t i o n i s reversed i n t h a t you have g o t a c o n t r o l

s t r u c t u r e on a l ake t h a t i s not a s s e n s i t i v e t o t h e amount

of water t h a t would r a i s e Osoyoos by s i x inches o r a foo t .

I wonder i f some of t h e answer t o t h e problem t h a t I th ink

we a r e a l l seeking a s o l u t i o n t o might no t be i n B r i t i s h

Columbia's con t ro l of t h e upstream s t r u c t u r e t o hold back

a l i t t l e more of t h a t water.

MR. McNEIL: Under drought condi t ions w e a r e

conserving every b i t of water t h a t w e can. Now our proposal

o r I should say Washington S t a t e ' s proposal , our a p p l i c a t i o n

s t a t e s t h a t a s a method of a l l e v i a t i n g drought both i n

Canada and t h e United S t a t e s , w e could capture some of t h e

water t h a t cannot otherwise be captured downstream of

Okanagan and s t o r e it on Osoyoos Lake f o r use i n t h a t

v i c i n i t y o r i n t h e American case downstream i f they wanted

t o r e l e a s e it f o r l i c e n s e s downstream of Osoyoos Lake during

t h i s l a t e per iod i n t h e summer when it is d r i e d up.

So w e a r e no t t a l k i n g about captur ing water t h a t w e

have re leased from Okanagan ~ a k e ' . W e a r e t a l k i n g about

captur ing water t h a t has come i n downstream of our o t h e r

c o n t r o l and downstream of our o t h e r s to rage .

COMMISSIONER McEWEN: But t h a t i s a r e l a t i v e l y

small amount of water. When I asked you t h e ques t ion how



(508) 448-6467 130 McNEIL

much entered Osoyoos if you cut off everything upstream of

Osoyoos YOU said it wouldn't provide 100 cis flow in the

out-f low.

I MR. McNEIL: Again, referring to the late summer

period. During the spring when there is snowmelt, there is

more than 100 cfs. Perhaps I read too much into your

question when you asked was there 100 cfs. The answer is,

at times of the years certainly there would be 100 cfs. At

the critical irrigation period the answer is, no, there is

not and that is why we propose capturing it and holding it

in Osoyoos and redistributing that same amount of water.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: I suppose with the related

matter, I think we share here some of the concerns

expressed by Mr. Fraser. Would it be at all sensible to

look at their proposal and see if there is not some

accommodation possible? It seems prima facie to be a

very arguable and human matter.

MR. BRADY: We intend to look at the levels. When

the Cooperation Plan was designed, it was before this past

summer so we did learn something. That's why my comment .

earlier about the upper limit. We intend to look at it with

Washington State with a view to fine tuning it. As

Mr. Miles pointed out, there may be an even factor, some

tradeoff.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: You wouldn't have the same



(509) 448-8467 131 McNEIL

problem with t h e new dam with discharge?

MR. BRADY: I t w i l l have higher discharge

capac i ty than t h e o l d one.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: M r . F rase r , do you have anything

more t o add?

MR. FRASER: No.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Now, M r . Sheardown who has been

very p a t i e n t . Thank you,

HARRY SHEARDOWN, having been sworn on o a t h , d id Osoyoos, B r i t i s h Columbia t e s t i f y a s follows:

MR. SHEARDOWN: Chairman Olson, The I n t e r n a t i o n a l

J o i n t Commission and o t h e r s , I wish t o b r ing t o your

a t t e n t i o n , t h a t t h e a p p l i c a t i o n t o draw down Osoyoos Lake

t o 910.5 f e e t during s e r i o u s drought i s too r e s t r i c t i v e .

Since October 25th, 1981, Osoyoos Lake has, t o t h i s d a t e ,

no t exceeded 909.98 f e e t . To my knowledge, t h a t was a f t e r

an inqui ry t h a t was below 910, no complaints have been

received during t h i s per iod regarding low water l e v e l s .

I be l i eve t h a t shore l i n e beaches a r e e a s i e r t o

maintain and enjoy when wave a c t i o n , water flow, e t c . a r e

. a b l e t o f l u s h , stir up-and expose a l a r g e r shore o r beach

area .

It i s an e s t a b l i s h e d fac t , , t h a t t o maintain'commerce

and populat ions i n t h e Okanagan Valley, l a k e s have t o have

works cons t ruc ted t o r e g u l a t e water l e v e l s , but do w e need

,



(509) 446-8467 132 S HEARDOWN

t o maintain Osoyoos Lake a t a r e s t r i c t i v e pond l e v e l ?

I f t h e draw down l e v e l i s only reduced t o 910.5 f e e t ,

i n s e r i o u s drought y e a r s , you nay expec t many complaints

from w e l l (near l a k e ) and i n t a k e i n s t a l l a t i o n owners, when,

a f t e r a per iod of t i m e , through n e c e s s i t y o r planning, t h e

l ake l e v e l must be reduced a f u r t h e r f o o t o r two f o r a

s h o r t per iod , i .e . , Skaha Lake, when they wished t o t r e a t

t h e shore and they had t o change s o many i n t a k e s t h e r e .

I submit t h a t t h e draw down f i g u r e be set a t 909.5

f e e t , t o a l low f o r ex tenua t ing circumstances.

My main c r e d e n t i a l i s t h a t I am a l a k e watcher who has

l i v e d on t h e shore of Osoyoos Lake f o r f i f t e e n yea r s . I

c l e a n t h e beach, own a canoe, s a i l b o a t , and a rowboat.

I was a member, f o r t h e p a s t fou r years , s f t h e P u b l i c

Task Force of t h e Okanagan Basin Implementation Board.

This I pu t i n a s a p r i v a t e c i t i z e n appearing be fo re

you. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: The h i g h e s t capac i ty any of us

can hope t o a t t a i n .

Would anyone l i k e t o respond t o M r . Sheardown's

concerns?

MR. McNEIL: I d o n ' t t h i n k t h a t came o u t c l e a r l y

t h i s morning and I d i d check wi th John Spencer who i s n o t

now here t o confirm t h i s , b u t it was our i n t e n t i o n i n

p u t t i n g i n t h e proposal t h a t t h e drought year 913 t o 910.5


S. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 133 SHEARDOWN

(509) 44a-8467

I app l i ca t ion i s intended e s s e n t i a l l y a s a winter l e v e l and

w e do h i s t o r i c a l l y and have e s s e n t i a l l y l e t t h e dam flow

f r e e during t h e winter , t o a l a r g e e x t e n t f r e e , and l e t t h e

l ake t o f a l l where it w i l l without having had, a s f a r a s I

know, complaints about low lake l e v e l s .

Now, t h e 909.5 t h e gentleman r e f e r r e d t o , w e cou ldn ' t

opera te some of our pumps i n Canada, i r r i g a t i o n pumps, a t

909.5. W e would s t a r t t o run i n t o problems during t h e

i r r i g a t i o n season a t t h a t l e v e l . However, I th ink it would

be of our i n t e n t i o n during t h e winter t o l e t t h e l ake drop

t o perhaps about where it is now which is perhaps 910 f e e t . -

1

2

j u s t because t h a t g e t s t h e j e t t i e s down o u t of t h e i c e

was i r r i g a t i o n season opera t ion and t h e 911 a l s o was an

i r r i g a t i o n season e leva t ion . The 909 r e f e r r e d t o i n t h e

I I range and seems t o be a good opera t ing l e v e l where people

d o n ' t ob jec t .

MR. SHEARDOWN: I was more concerned when I read I ' your n o t i c e of 910.5. You could t ake t h e s t r u c t u r e down a s

f a r a s , could you say 906, i f needed?

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Couldn't some of t h e s e hopes and 1,

a s p i r a t i o n s and i n t e n t i o n s be put i n t o your Cooperation

Agreement?

I th ink t h a t one of t h e m e m b e r s of t h e Board would

l i k e t o respond.

MR. KAUFFMAN: Two p o i n t s of c l a r i f i c a t i o n . You


S. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 134 SHEARDOWN

are r e f e r r i n g t o Canadian d a t a ?

MR. SHEARDOWN: I am r e f e r r i n g t o Canadian d a t a ,

MR. KAUFFMAN: The second p o i n t , I t h i n k Robin

( M c N e i l ) r e f e r r e d t o t h i s b u t i n t h e s u b m i t t a l f o r t h e

s t r u c t u r e , t h e w i n t e r minimum l e v e l i s set f o r 909.0.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: b u t t h e des ign c a p a c i t y i s 906?

MR. SHEARDOWN: I s a i d t h a t f i g u r e . I am n o t

s u r e what it is .

MR. McNEIL: The low l e v e l i s 904. Techn ica l ly ,

t h e l a k e could be drawn down t o about 906 b u t n o t w i thou t

a l o t of dredging between t h e dam and t h e l a k e and

presumably a l s o Haynes Po in t .

CHAIRMAN OLSON: M r . Sheardown, 1 t a k e it t h a t

d o e s n ' t answer t h e concerns .

PR. SHEARDOWN: I t h i n k it does . I j u s t d o n ' t

want it i n a pond from 910.5 t o 912 and t h e g r a s s grows

up on t h e beach and t h e i i t t l e trees. W e had a n i c e

f l u s h i n g t h i s y e a r when it came i n a t 913.4 and took o u t

a l o t of t h e l o o s e g r a s s and w e have some beach t o use .

I f w e have it t o o h igh some y e a r s , w e have no beach f o r

t h e t o u r i s t s . I see you a r e working on it w i t h t h e s e v e r e

drought y e a r s b u t j u s t a s long as you a r e n o t going t o , i n

t h e w in t e r t ime , hold it a t 910 and 511 o r t r y t o hold it a t

911 i n t h e w i n t e r , I am q u i t e happy w i t h t h a t w i t h t h e



(509) 4468467 135 SHEARDOWN

f e e l i n g you say you a r e going t o l e t it flow f r e e . I d o n ' t

want it i n t h a t very r e s t r i c t e d range because people p u t

' i n t a k e s and a s soon a s it changes, they w i l l r e q u i r e he lp

t o a s s i s t i n changing t h e i r s t r u c t u r e s . I f it i s known

from t h e s t a r t t h e t h i n g w i l l f l u c t u a t e , t h a t ' s f i n e .

I know when you have a dam which i s b u i l t t o flow

both ways, t h e r i v e r f lows both ways, you can go up on

Anarchis t and look down and see t h e f lood coming down from

t h e Similkameen. Your t o p l e v e l i s occas iona l ly going t o

be breached. I t i s t h a t low l e v e l -- I would l i k e , a s you

say , t o see it flow f r e e i n t h e w i n t e r and no t keep it a t

910 o r 910.5 o r 911.

I t h i n k my ques t ion has been answered. I t h i n k you

a r e aware of what I am t a l k i n g about.

You had t h e Chief before ask ing f o r more s t o r a g e

water. There was another f o o t t h e r e . I am saying i f you

a r e going chop it o f f t h e i f you chop it o f f t h e

Okanagan River , I understand McIntyre Creek i n f lood

season can p u t a s much water i n t o t h e Okanagan River a s

t h e Okanagan River can from Pen t i c ton . Am I c o r r e c t on

t h a t ? Very c l o s e t o it anyway.

MR. McNEIL: I d o n ' t t h i n k -- MR. SHEARDOWN: McIntyre Creek throws a l o t of

water i n t o t h e Okanagan River system even though you s h u t

o f f t h e o t h e r one. Las t year when w e had 913.4 t h a t was


S. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE, WASHINGTON 99203

(509) 440-8467

136 SHEARDOWN

influenced by the testing of .the.::water by .. the Water Board i . : 7

to see if it would handle, I think .2,500 gallons a minute 1: ; I and then we plugged up here and it rained and we kept . : I L

saying shut it off, shut it of5- .,". 1. ,I was on the..VLllage

Council then and the main lake was -saying, "We can't; we.,.: : I :, are full; somebody has to take2.the water." I know they

12 work closely together to keep the thing down anticipating :I the heavy snow runoff. Last year~we .didn't let it out. I t I looked like a dry year coming. up. . < . : I

I thank you for the time and I think you have

answered some of my questions.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Thank-you. Any further . ! I

questions, observations, comments, that anyone.would like to I make? . - * . -.

I am wondering if someone fromeBritish Columbia could I give us a very brief report on polution-.systems. Is

municipal sewage fully treated? .-IsS.there still polution or i

do you not have that? a & - , t I MR. BRADY: I am certainly-not the expert to speak

to it. It comes under another branch but one.of-the main I

issues addressed was water quality in the Okanagan basin. I I am sure there are several people in this room that know I more about it than I do. ;There have,been a number of I

I measures taken in.the . . basin with regard to the point .' I I discharge of seyage,,the-City of.Vernon,.-.for exantple,rhas

CAROL L. DEWEY Court Reporrer, Inc.


(509) 448-8467 137 BRADY

The City of. Penticton already had one and are looking at an I

t I

I

i

alternative.of land disposal'-arrangement.

,They have been monitoring the lake system and I

>-+.--.A*'--.* ' - A ' - - . . - . .

5

now gone to a land disposal of waste for their sewage.

understand the response has been very good. There are

things to be looked at, septic tanks, non point sources,

I particularly with regard ts'agricultural operations but

essentially the study came up with recommendations, some

of which are implemented, some of which are being looked at

I in an ongoing program. There is still some way to go.

CHAIRMAN OLSON: Does British Columbia control

phosphates and detergents? .:

MR., BRADY: . This is'a product which, I believe,

is control1e.d by the federal.

CHAIRMAN-OLSON:' So the same controls apply here

as they do elsewhere?

MR. MILES: Mr. Chairman, I would like to say

with pride sthat the Village. of Osoyoos has no effluent

whatsoever going into.'theiOkanagan Lake system. It all goes

up and irrigates a lovely.18-hole'golf course.

MR. BRADY :. I regret the-, omission.

. CHAIRMAN OLS,ON:,- ; It. remains kor me to thank you

all for your patience,and tolerance ofboth this morning

and this afternoon. We will now' find, .I'guess, that we



(509) 448-8467 138 BRADY

have learned and goodwill hopefu l ly .wi l1 come forth i n

something su i tab le .

Thank you very much.

4:47 p.m.)

:-< ". ..: ... : .;, a',' -

. . . -. - !". .. ., ""

:. , : . - . , . , . , .

1 , I..

CAROL L. DEWEY " . . . _ . I . Court Reporter. Inc.

, .. .. .

S. 5107 PERRY . . . . . .

. .,. . .. . . SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203

(509) 44G8467 . . , ,.

A F F I D A V I T - - - - - - - - -

As O f f i c i a l Repor te r , I hereby c e r t i f y t h a t t h e

l 3 1 foregoing t r a n s c r i p t i nc ludes a l l t h e f a c t s , m a t t e r s and

l4 I proceedings occur ing a t t h e hea r ing h e l d on December 8 ,

15 1 1981, a t O r o v i l l e , Washington, and Osoyoos, B r i t i s h

. . .


S. 5107 PERRY SPOKANE. WASHINGTON 99203 '

(509) 448-8467

8, - International Joint Commission · bill dobbins c. c. mccurdy carol l. dewey court reporter....

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