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So the issue here is that if you do not affirm Allaah is above the Throne to begin with, or that there is a Lord above the Heavens, the question of how He descends does not even concern you, if we just leave to one side the fact that it is prohibited for you to even start asking about the "kayf" in the first place. So this is deception on behalf of the Jahmites on this particular issue.

Adh-Dhahabee brings, with a saheeh isnaad the following narration (in Mukhtasaral-uluww, p. 193-194):

And Ibrahim bin Abi Talib said: I heard Ahmad bin Sa'eed ar-Ribaatee saying: I attended the gathering of Ibn Tahir [the Ameer of Khurasaan] and Ishaaq [bin Raahawaih] (d. 238H) attended. He was asked about the hadeeth of Nuzool (Descent), whether it is authentic. He said, "Yes". One of the chiefs (of the Ameer) said, "How does He descend?" So he (Ishaaq) said: "Affirm Him [being above the Throne]for me such that I can describe the descent to you" So the man said, "I affirm Him [to be] above". So Ishaaq said, "Allaah said:And your Lord will come, and the Angels, ranks upon ranksThen Ibn Tahir said, "This is on the Day of Judgement O Aba Ya'qub". So he (Ishaaq) said, "And He who comes on the Day of Judgement, who prevents Him today?"

And Shaykh ul-Islaam, Abu Isma'eel al-Harawi (d. 481H) narrates, in his book "Dhamm ul-Kalaam":

From Muhammad bin Ishaaq ath-Thaqafi: I heard Ishaaq [bin Raahawaih] bin Ibraahe

em al-Handhali (who) said: I entered one day upon [Abdullaah bin] Taahir and Mansur bin Talhah was present with him. Mansur said to me, "O Abu Ya'qub! You say that Allaah descends to the lowest heaven every night?" I said, "And we believe in it, but you do not believe that you have a Lord [that is] above the heaven, soyou are not in need of asking me about this?!"We see from these narrations that Ishaaq bin Raahawaih - before answering the question - asked one of those detractors who were trying to stir the Ameer againsthim, whether he affirms Allaah is above or not, and he told him that this issueis of no concern to him because he does not affirm a Lord above the heaven in the first place. This is because the speech about the Nuzool branches off from the affirmation of the foundation, which is Allaah being above the heaven, above the Throne. And if this is not affirmed in the first place, then questioning theNuzool is false speech.

The burnout victim has no right to raise and dispute in this particular issue because he does not believe - on the basis of the principles of Aristotle's Ten Categories (see here) - that there is a Lord above the heaven, or a deity above the Throne to begin with such that he should start asking questions about the Nuzool. Thus, there is no place for him in this discussion and his entering into itand raising it is intellectual fraud. In opposition to the Jahmites, the Salaf affirmed with unanimous agreement that Allaah is above His Throne, with His Essence (al-Qurtubi: see here and here) as did the Early As'haris (see here). To raise questions about this issue of Nuzool without first acknowledging that it is indeed the truth that Allaah is above the Throne, with His Essence, is an intellectual fraud. So this victim's first discussion should be on the subject of why heopposes the Kullaabi Ash'aris in affirming Allaah is above His Throne, With His

Essence and why he agrees with the Jahmiyyah, Mu'tazilah, the Kafir Ibn Sina and the later [Jahmite] Ash'aris, that Allaah is not above the Throne, with His Essence. If he was honest and truthful, this is the question he should be asking,instead of asking questions related to the kaifiyyah of Allaah's Nuzool, which is prohibited for him to do so in the first place.So we say to this victim, it is of no concern to you because you negate there isa deity above the Throne to begin with (just like your predecessors, the Jahmites of old). So leave off this pretense and deception. This only becomes an issueof discussion between ourselves, the followers of the Book and the Sunnah and the Salaf, and yourselves (the inheritors of the Philosophers of the Greeks, the

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followers of the doctrines of al-Jahm and al-Ja'd) if you affirm there is a deity above the heaven, above the Throne, and as you do not, there is no place in this discussion for you at all.

Secondly: These Same Jahmite Ash'aris Do Not Utilize the Sayings of the Salaf Except as A Cover To Conceal Their Deception

To illustrate, these people are the first to spread the sayings of the Salaf that "Leave these narrations as they have come, without asking how" - and they arethe first to oppose them when they start asking about the how of Allaah's Nuzooland Allaah's istiwaa - and they raise these questions after first having presumed that these attributes or actions of Allaah, must be upon the manner and kayfof the created bodies - whereas Ahl us-Sunnah deny that is the case, and leave the knowledge of the kayf to Allaah.

Victims Responds, Struggling with His Straight-Jacket

The victim is now responding, struggling with the straight-jacket and has claimed:

He quotes Ishaq as if we deny Allah is above the Throne. While fact is that we only deny Allah being above or rising above the Throne means Allah is located above the Throne just as we deny Allah being closer than the juglar vein means Allah is located near the juglar vein... I believe Allah is above the Throne higher

than you ever thoughtAs we have said previously, when these Jahmites say Allaah is above the Throne,they do not mean what the Salaf meant or what the Kullaabi Ash'aris meant - which is that Allaah Himself is above the Throne, separate and distinct from the creation. They mean Allaah is above in terms of status and rank, and when these people come out on forums and blogs, they knowingly deceive people by this language. See this article to understand their deception: From The Sayings Of The Jahmites: 'I Never Said That Allaah Is Not Above the Throne. I Said He Is Not In A Location Above The Throne' - (read here).

And their intent here is to protect themselves from the scorn that all people ofsound fitrah would show against them for rejecting that "Allaah is above the Throne" as the Salaf stated it and understood it, upon consensus - take a look her

e for what the Salaf were upon in this regard.

It is precisely for this reason that you have to straight-jacket these people and pin them down, because as Ibn Qudaamah said, there is no group of people beingmore cowardly in truthfully, honestly and openly expressing their real intent in their statements (expressing their creed) except the Heretics and the Ash'arites. The victim has clearly demonstrated that deceiving the people is standard practice when it comes to speaking about Allaah being "above" the Throne, and similar is their way in their belief of two Qur'ans - see here. So you have to recognize this is a trait with these people and you simply cannot take them at face value.

The Salaf, when they made takfir of the Jahmiyyah, it was not because the Jahmiy

yah were denying that Allaah is above the Throne in "rank and status", but because through their belief that Allaah is in every place, they were denying Allaahis above the Throne, with His Essence, separate and distinct from His creation.Thus, when you see these Jahmites today saying:

...as if we deny Allah is above the Throne ... I believe Allah is above the Throne higher than you ever thought..They mean only in "status and rank". And you should know that their true and real saying is the very same as the Jahmites of old, and that of Ibn Sina the Kafir, that "Allaah is neither within the creation, nor outside of it" and the aboven

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ess they speak of is an aboveness of "status and rank", it is not an aboveness in which Allaah actually exists, with His Essence, outside of the universe - so beware and beware again of the deception of these people. They say, "I affirm Allaah is above the Throne", and what they really mean is "The Throne is just a metaphor for Allaah's dominion and Allaah is above this figurative Throne in the sense of rank and status" - this is how they deceive people and hide their real beliefs from the people, because they know that the sound uncorrupted fitrah willknow that their real saying "There is no Lord above the heaven", and "There is no deity above the Throne" and "Allaah is not within the universe nor outside ofit" is falsehood and amounts to the non-existence of the Creator.

The Saying of Abu Uthmaan as-Saaboonee (d. 449H) Regarding the Nuzool Should Treat and Heal this Psychologically Deluded Victim and His Questions

Abu Uthmaan as-Saaboonee said in the book titled, "Aqeedat us-Salaf wa Ashaabil-Hadeeth" (tahqeeq Nasir al-Juday', Dar ul-Aasimah, 1st edition, 1415H, pp. 191-232) - spending around 40 pages on this subject:

And the People of Hadeeth affirm the Nuzool of the Lord, Sublime and Exalted, every night to the lowest heaven without resemblance (tashbeeh) to the Nuzool of the created beings, and nor likening (tamtheel) or asking how (takyeef). Rather,they affirm whatever Allaah's Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) affirmed,and they stop regarding the issue at where [he stopped]. And they pass on the au

thentic narration that has come with mention of it (the nuzool) upon its apparent [meaning] (dhaahir), and they leave its knowledge to Allaah.As-Saaboonee means here that they leave the knowledge of its kayfiyyah (how it is, its reality) to Allaah, as is clear from the entire statement as well as whatfollows. Then as-Saaboonee mentions the attributes of Majee and Ityaan (comingand arriving) which are also mentioned in the Book of Allaah, and then regardingall three (nuzool, majee, ityaan) he says (p. 192):

And we believe in all of that, in the manner that it came (in the texts), without [asking about or specifying a] kayf. And if Allaah, the Sublime, had willed toexplain to us the kaifiyyah (how it takes place and its reality), then He wouldhave done so ...

Then as-Saaboonee brings the narrations from Ishaaq bin Raahawaih that we mentioned earlier, as well as a narration from Abdullaah bin al-Mubaarak (d. 181H), and we can mention here one of the narrations:

: : Ahmad as-Sullamee and Abu Dawud al-Khafaajee said: We heard Ishaaq bin Ibraaheem[ar-Raahawaih] al-Handhalee say: THe Ameer, Abdullaah bin Taahir said to me, "OAbaa Ya'qub, this hadeeth that you narrate from the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam), 'Our Lord descends to the lowest heaven every night', how does He descend?" I said, "May Allaah honor and strengthen the ameer, it is not said regarding the affair of the Lord, "Kayf (how)?". Verily, He descends without [asking about the] kayf.Our psychologically disturbed victim has not heeded these types of narrations an

d does not understand them, so as he struggles in his straight-jacket, we shouldpolitely tell him that asking the type of question he is asking:

Literal descent & entering creation. assalaamu alaikum Do salafees believe Allah's dhaat is in the lowest sky when believing Allah literally descended/moved tothe lowest sky?Is the very same thing that Ishaaq bin Raahawaih (and others from the Salaf) spoke about, because all of these objections and questions which are mentioned in such narrations are based upon the presumption that Allaah's Essence must leave the Throne and enter the creation in order for Him to descend - and it is because

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those raising these questions imagined a "kayf" in their mind, and this is whatled them to such questions.

Then as-Saaboonee spends quite a few pages on mentioning all the companions thatnarrated these ahaadeeth and their routes, and then he brings with his own chains of narrations, such ahaadeeth. On page 222 after quoting one particular narration with his chain back to Abu Hurairah (radiallaahu anhu), he says after it:

I heard the Ustaadh, [Muhammad bin Abdullaah] Abu Mansoor [bin Hamshaad] saying,after this hadeeth which he dictated to us: Abu Haneefah was asked about it andhe said, "He descends without kayf (asking 'How?')".And some of them said: He descends with descent (Nuzool) that befits His Ruboobiyyah (Lordship), without kayf (asking 'How?'), without His Nuzool being like theNuzool of the creation of vacating a place to occupy another, because He whoseMajesty is great, is purified that His attributes should be like the attributesof the creation. As He is purified of His Essence being like the essences of thecreation, then His coming (majee'), arriving (Ityaan) and descending (Nuzool) are according to what befits His attributes, without tashbeeh (resemblance) and kayf (asking 'How?').

Then on p. 232, as-Saaboonee says:

:

I say: When the narration of the Nuzool is authentically (reported) from the Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam), Ahl us-Sunnah affirmed it, and they accepted the report, and they affirmed the Nuzool upon what Allaah's Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) said. And they did not hold a belief of tashbeeh (resemblance) for it with the Nuzool of His creation. And they knew and verified [the truth in the matter] and believed that the attributes of Allaah, the Sublime, do not resemble the attributes of the creation, just as His Essence does not resemble the essences of the creation - lofty and exalted is Allaah from what the Mushabbihah and Mu'attilah say with the great exaltation and may Allaah curse them with a great curse.The previous dosage of narrations should have sedated him somewhat and it lookswe are going to have to move up a step to the tranquilizers. This is what happens when instead of taking Tawheed from the Messengers, you actually take it from

the language, terminology, and classifications of the atheist Philosophers and the necessities arising therefrom.

The contemporary Ash'aris approach all the revealed texts through what you see above. The above is the ultimate criterion as to what can and cannot be believedabout Allaah and as to what should or should not be figuratively explained. Thisis the core of it all. When you see these people raising all these questions and objections, you should know that ultimately, this is what is behind it all. You see what is in that picture above is the basis upon which they devised an intellectual proof to argue that the universe is created and to convince the atheists of a creator. It is a corrupt and flawed proof, and since they claimed that th

e very truthfulness of the religion of Islam depends upon it, they were in turn,forced to make all of their speech regarding Allaah to be inextricably linked to this same language and terminology. From this you will better grasp the natureof the questions and doubts these people keep raising against the creed of theSalaf.

Its Official, Ahmed Cobra the Ash'ari Needs Tranquilizers

As we suspected from the beginning, this is a very strange case and we were justified in opting for the straight-jacket as the first step before making any clin

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ical observations.

We can see from his statement above, the victim clearly needs a dose of tranquilizers. After smoking Aristotle's "al-Maqoolaat al-Ashar" for a few hours - [thisreally sensitizes you and allows you to see Jismiyyah (kufr) in the revealed texts] - he thought he would go out and have a bit of fun. So he first came on thescene with this question:

Literal descent & entering creation. assalaamu alaikum Do salafees believe Allah's dhaat is in the lowest sky when believing Allah literally descended/moved tothe lowest sky?And this absolutely confirms, without a shadow of doubt, what we said earlier inthis article after bringing the statement of Imaam at-Tirmidhi, that these people first hold the belief (i'tiqaad) of takyeef, tashbeeh, Tajseem in their hearts regarding what they see and read in the revealed texts. If you look at this victim and see what he has written, "Literal descent & entering creation" and thecontent of his question itself, you realize he has not understood the Nuzool except in the manner of the creation, and it is built upon this false presumption that his that his question arises.

...i'll do it after some one directly answers my question.IS ALLAHS DHAAT LOCATED IN THE LOWEST SKY?(NOTE: am not asking how Allah descened)

The question itself branches off from the issue of Nuzool, so it's a contradiction for it to be said, "Is Allaah's dhaat in the lowest sky?" and at the same time, "I am not asking how Allaah descended" - that question only arises if you have presumed a "kayf" in your mind for Allaah's Nuzool - which is what the victimis doing.

To remove him from his misery:

Ahl us-Sunnah hold that Allaah is above the heaven, above His Throne, and that when He descends, He does not leave the Throne, and that He always remains abovethe Throne, (and this means that the second heaven is not above Him) and the reality of this descent is unknown to us and it is not fathomable, and it is unlikethe descent of created beings, and since we do not know the reality of how Alla

ah's dhaat (essence) is, then we do not know the realities of His attributes andactions, from them the Nuzool. The way of the Salaf is to affirm the narrationswithout asking "how?" And anyone who asks the question "Is Allaah's dhaat located in the lowest sky?" has only asked this question because of the presumption of tashbeeh and Tajseem in his heart that Allaah's descent must be like that of created bodies, like that of a person descending from the roof of a house such that the roof becomes above him - as has been explained by Ibn Taymiyyah previously in this article. And Allaah is exalted and lofty above what these people presume with a lofty exaltation. And if you can't fathom this, then question your mind and intellect and not the revealed texts.It appears this case has come to an abrupt end, at the hands of the patient himself that is. Hence, we can wrap up and write our little report with the appropriate recommendations.

Case Diagnosis and Summary Report

As this was a live, real-time case, there is not much to add to a diagnosis, asmost of this has been done already in what has preceded.

In summary, we say that the victim has been snorting Aristotle's "al-Maqoolaat al-Ashar" for too long (without realizing what it actually is - he may have beenspiked) and this took a toll on his perception of the revealed texts such that the only thing he was able to see and presume from them is Tajseem and tashbeeh.

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This led the poor victim to start asking questions that only arise and follow onfrom such presumptions of tashbeeh and Tajseem, and which are baseless questions in the first place.

New Venture Announcement! Due to the very sad nature of this case that we have just experienced and witnessed first hand, and due to the compulsive behaviour ofthis victim (who until now is still persisting in his baseless question), we have felt it very necessary to open our next not-for-profit venture, in addition to our Clinic. It is "The AA" - "Aristotelians Anonymous" or perhaps "Ash'aris Anonymous" (we are undecided on the name yet). This is a support group to help victims detoxify their systems from the harmful effects of the language and terminology of atheist Philosophers (jism, jawhar, 'arad and so on) which they have made to be the foundation of Tawheed and the foundation of the veracity of the veryreligion itself. And likewise, (on the basis of this language and terminology)they have treated the revealed texts to be the foundations of Tajseem and tashbeeh. And thus we see a clash between the Tawheed of the Messengers and the Aristotelian Tawheed of the Mutakallimoon. All of this is clearly leading them to hallucinate Tajseem in the revealed texts when there is in fact no such thing. Whilst our Clinic is fine for mild to moderate cases, compulsive cases (such as thisone) need specialized treatment, so as time allows, we will be developing a Detox program to help victims get back upon the language and terminology of the Tawheed of the Messengers. If you would like to help the poor victims that you comeacross, please send them to our Clinic for now, until we get the support group up and running. You see we really do feel sorry for these people, they are our Mu

slim brothers and sisters who have unfortunately been caught up in something that is very hard to let go - the disease and Intoxication of of the mind is more severe than the disease and Intoxication of the body - so they need as much support and help as possible.Update: Upon a recommendation from a reader that we call our new not-for-profitventure "Aristotelians Anonymous", we've decided to go along with it. "Aristotelian Anonymous" is the new support group to be launched soon, and will consist ofa Detox protocol for affected and intoxicated minds. Having said that we must clearly distinguish the Kullaabi Ash'aris - who despite being influenced by whatthe Jahmiyyah and Mu'tazilah took of these notions (based upon Aristotelian Metaphysics) in devising an intellectual proof to show the universe is created and has a creator (and were therefore lumped with sticking to this same language in all their speech about Allaah) - these early Kullaabi Ash'aris were nevertheless

much better all round and affirmed most of what Ahl us-Sunnah affirmed, with theexception of the Sifaat Fi'liyyah (actions tied to Allaah's will). So we clearly distinguish them and give them some respect, as opposed to the later Jahmite Ash'aris who practically reverted to much of what the Mu'tazilah and Jahmiyyah were upon. Clear proof by way of some examples: Their saying that "Allaah is neither within the universe nor outside of it" (thank you for that Ibn Sina you shrewd Kafir), and likewise using the same ta'weels of the Jahmiyyah and Mu'tazilah for the attributes of "hands" (al-yadaan) for Allaah - that it is favor or power(ni'mah, qudrah) which the early Kullaabi Ash'aris refuted.

So "Aristotelian's Anonymous" it is.

Recommendations and Remedy

As this is a compulsive case, unfortunately, you are going to have to wait for the opening of "The AA" (should not be too long). In the meanwhile, we advise youto print off and read this article five times daily.