PBS’ "TO THE CONTRARY"

Women Thought Leader with Kim Klacik

Host: Bonnie Erbe

Nov 15th, 2019

Panelists:

PLEASE CREDIT ANY QUOTES OR EXCERPTS FROM THIS PBS PROGRAM TO "PBS' TO THE CONTRARY."

Announcer 0:00

Funding for To The Contrary provided by the Cornell Douglas Foundation, committed to encouraging stewardship of the

environment, land conservation, watershed protection and eliminating harmful chemicals. Additional funding provided by

the Wallace Genetic Foundation, the Colcom Foundation and the Charles A. Frueauff Foundation.

Kim Klacik 0:00

Working in the cleanups and things like that, you know, we would be out there and then there was a lot of people wearing

their Trump memorabilia, you know, they get the mega hats and everything. And, you know, some people were saying,

Oh, I can't believe you support Trump.

Bonnie Erbe 0:06

Hello, I'm Bonnie Erbe. Welcome to To The Contrary. This week we continue our Woman Thought Leader series with

Kim Klacik, a Republican commentator. She came to prominence after a video she posted of rats in Baltimore was

highlighted by President Trump. She's now one of the President's most influential black female supporters on social media

and cable. So welcome to you, Kim.

Kim Klacik 0:33

Thank you for having me.

Bonnie Erbe 0:34

And you obviously have a very bright political future.

Kim Klacik 0:41

I hope so.

Bonnie Erbe 0:43

And you announced this past week that you're going to be turning you're starting on social media with the rats and the

president into a political career for yourself. So why don't you tell the audience about it.

Kim Klacik 1:01

Yep. So I kind of got involved in politics back in 2014. I was actually a volunteer on Capitol Hill. And I volunteered with

the Architect of the Capitol. So we ran around basically helping with tours and helping with members of Congress getting

to their meetings, which they still get lost. I don't know how they do.

Bonnie Erbe 1:18

It was a pretty weird campaign. I mean, confusing...

Kim Klacik 1:22

Yes, it is. So I would help with that. But then I would go in and sit on some of the hearings and just listen, and kind of just

hear about what's going on. And so I ended up joining a group called Politico chicks, and I started writing for their blog.

So I've been, you know, very lucky, and I guess how I fell into it. But I continued, I kept going. Back in 2008, I actually

voted for President Obama. I was a Democrat, for sure. And then when 2012 came around, I started questioning, you

know, what was really going on? And I thought, you know what, maybe just maybe I'm not a Democrat. And so I started

reading more about conservative values. And after a while, I decided, you know what, maybe I am a conservative but

actually didn't vote in 2012. I wasn't very happy with Mitt Romney also. So actually saved my vote, and I did vote local

elections, but not presidential. And then moving forward, I ended up voting for President Trump in 2016.

Bonnie Erbe 3:00

And are you happy with that vote?

Kim Klacik 3:01

I am happy. Yes. Yes.

Bonnie Erbe 3:04

Are you a women's rights advocate?

Kim Klacik 3:07

I am, I guess you could say, I love my rights. You know, I'm a woman. I guess I don't always look at things as maybe

everyone else like, you know, gender or color. You know, I kind of look at is we're all on the same team. We're all

Americans. I don't view it as you know, women or Latinas or whatever, we should all be kind of just in the same group.

Bonnie Erbe 3:38

Well, I asked that question because I always wonder how women who call themselves women's rights advocates and

many of his female supporters do feel about what he's been charged with raping women attacking women, bragging on

radio with Howard Stern that when you grab women by the genitals, they really like it. How? How, when you hear that,

and he's running for office and you're, you're for him? What does that make you think?

Kim Klacik 4:12

I can see how people are concerned about it for sure. You know, it's definitely not what you want to hear-it's not-I have a

daughter, definitely not what you want your daughter to hear. But I guess at the same time, I kind of look at it as what-22

women came forward, and I don't know if some of them are still in the process, but he is yet to be convicted, you know, so

it's kind of like, is he really guilty? I'm not sure. I'm a kind of person that always waits it out. And then on that topic, I am

kind of wondering, I know you've probably heard of this slush fund book, and $17 million has been paid out to people that

filed harassment claims on Capitol Hill. I learned about that, while voluntary on Capitol Hill. There's a secret slush fund

and the Treasury Department. And I thought well, you know, the public isn't made aware of that. We are made aware of

everything that President Trump has done. But the public still doesn't even know what their members have done.

Bonnie Erbe 7:06

You are running for the seat vacated by the passing of Elijah Cummings, who was a civil rights icon really. And Maryland

is a blue state. And there were elections last week in several states, including Virginia, which went to an all democratic-

switch to an all democratic controlled government for the first time in 26 years. What does that say about you running a

Republican in Maryland?

Kim Klacik 7:36

Yeah, definitely. It's it's an uphill battle for sure. First, just going back a little bit. I know a lot of people say Congressman

Cummings, and he was a great guy and everybody truly loved him. But it's that as far as civil rights I think sometimes

people get a little confused because he was a child at that time. He used to talk about how he used to listen to Dr. Martin

Luther King Jr. on the radio while he was at school or when he got out of school. But as far as running in Maryland and

what happened last week in Virginia, I mean, that was insane. And I know I got a lot of backlash because I said something

on Twitter. But I know like many people know that the GOP and the RNC is whatever you want to call them. They're not

doing a whole lot as far as voter outreach. And they could be doing a lot more. And they always told these numbers, we're

raising millions of dollars, thanks to President Trump. Well, where is that money being spent? Because obviously, it's not

being spent on the grassroots effort. So yes, I am very concerned about that. And I know I'm going to have to knock on

every single door myself, I'm going to have to go and shake every single hand. And it's a special election. So it's very

short. You know, my primary is February 4. General is-if hopefully I make it to April 28. And it's short, so it's condensed

and I gotta work hard. But I'm up for the challenge.

Bonnie Erbe 8:52

What happens when you talk to African Americans and tell them you're Republican, and you're a Trump supporter. Look

at you sideways or do they have strange? But 90% of African American women voted for Hillary Clinton.

Kim Klacik 9:08

Yeah, definitely. So even working in the cleanups and things like that, you know, we would be out there and then there

was a lot of people wearing their Trump memorabilia, you know, they get the mega hats and everything. And, you know,

some people were saying, Oh, I can't believe you support Trump, you know, and I was like, well, we got to look at it like

this. You know, there's a lot of this trash while this has been sitting here for almost a year. If it wasn't for Trump, we

wouldn't be out here removing it. The city now with the Baltimore Department of Public Works, they wouldn't be taking a

look at it. So we can hate Trump all day. But the fact that he actually brought light to the situation is a reason it's being

removed. And some people will then look at me and say, okay, you're right about that. And then we just move forward.

Bonnie Erbe 9:49

But we have to do a couple of steps walking backward first which is that you took a video and posted it on social media of

rats in the crash at Baltimore. Yeah. And that went viral. And eventually the president supported you came out and named

you and supported you. Are you sure the city wouldn't be picking up trash if it weren't for President Trump saying

something about it? I mean, these are things cities routinely do.

Kim Klacik 10:16

Right, yes. So unfortunately, not in every neighborhood. And so that's the part about Baltimore, there's a tale of two

Baltimore's, so not all neighborhoods are treated equally. So you've got East and West Baltimore, and you got some parts

of South Baltimore, you got Federal Hill, which is treated great. Port Covington was an up and coming Harbor East.

They've got a ton of resources, and you'll never see trash or rats in these areas. But in parts of East Baltimore, in West

Baltimore, even South Baltimore and Cherry Hill, you will see illegal dumping and a lot of vacant houses and trash

everywhere. And so just I would say probably a month ago, City Hall had a meeting with those that are connected to the

311 service. That's what people call to have trash and things removed. And they had a meeting and I went to sit in on it,

you know, I didn't have to talk. I just wanted to hear what was going on. And then they all realize, you know, we've never

been in a room together before. We've never talked about why we have so many issues getting this done. You know,

they've been talked about how the fact that they only had five vendors, I guess, going around to cut grass and city owned

properties, and that's why there was such a backlog. So they're just now finding out all these inefficiencies within this

department or many departments connected to the 311 services. And, again, you know, that wasn't that meeting wasn't on

the books until after the rats and trash videos.

Bonnie Erbe 11:37

But hasn't there been some publicity around the fact that Baltimore is losing population? It's a dwindling in terms of

people and in terms of financial support tax base, yes, it's losing people and federal-the President Trump is not out there

supporting urban renewal that I know of, if anything, he's cutting back Federal Housing grants and things like that. And

there are people who say that Baltimore because of the dwindling tax base can't possibly fix itself without federal support

at what's your-what are your thoughts on that issue?

Kim Klacik 12:20

Well, we could definitely use for federal support but you know, this is like placing the blame other than on themselves

you know, Baltimore City is very anti-business, they've always been. Right now they're voting on a plastic bag ban and

with that ban, they're actually going to have paper bags where that's going to come to attack to the consumer and to the

actual stores or whatever come Oh, yeah, so the consumer...

Bonnie Erbe 12:47

Like DC already does that. They charge you five cents for a plastic bag but a paper bag, there's no charge.

Kim Klacik 12:55

No, no. So they're gonna do five cents for a paper bag and plastic bags will not be available, because they believe that

plastic is polluting the streets, so they want to take care of that.

Bonnie Erbe 13:04

Are they wrong about that?

Kim Klacik 13:05

Um, well, I've been out there with the trash. I didn't see a ton of plastic bags I have to tell ya. Yeah, I saw more mattresses

and dry wall and furnishings. I didn't-I didn't see a ton of plastic bags, but I haven't been on every street. So like, I can't

say you know that they are not there. But they even banned styrofoam. And there was a lot of pushback from, you know,

mom and pop shops that basically, you know, they're to go-containers were styrofoam, and they are cheaper for them.

And they're able to do and use those, they banned those. So that was another hit, you know, against the small business and

so they are anti-business. And I know they love to, you know, I call a grandstanding. You know, they kind of want to get

on the trends that are going across the nation. But unfortunately, when it comes to Baltimore City in our low population

and the crime, the violence and homelessness, you gotta do a carve out when it comes to some of these things that they

want to be on top of, and I get it. It sounds great to want to be for pollution or against pollution and for climate change and

all. It sounds lovely. And I wish we were at that level, but we've just started.

Bonnie Erbe 14:13

Most millennials, and I presume you're a millennial or Gen Xs. But most millennials see climate change. I mean, this is

where the President is losing young people like crazy because they feel that those things are necessary that they're there

won't be, you know, sustain human life on earth without making major changes to the way we live. Why do you oppose

your generation on this issue?

Kim Klacik 14:43

I don't oppose them. I guess I just don't see it as a priority above other things at this point. I mean, our homeless

population in Baltimore City, like you said, the population itself dwindling, but our homeless population is out of control.

And so sure, we could have clean air I guess, if you're living on the streets, you know, that's great. But, you know, we

have to deal with the fact that everything that we're doing right now isn't working. Our education system, you know, I hear

Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren talking about free college. I mean, free college, you got to get in first. We've got

kids that can't even graduate high school, you've got kids that, you know, can't pass, you know, basic math and reading

courses. So it's like, you know, they're really going to be left behind because a lot of employers are going to say, Well,

where's your free college? It's free. You know, why is it on your resume, but you got to get in. So before we can take that

step, I think we have to make sure that all the children are educated enough to be able to get into that free college because

it is a privilege.

Bonnie Erbe 15:39

So you're blaming it on the school's not on the parents?

Kim Klacik 15:42

No, no, no, no, no, not at all. Trust me. I used to do home visits. I was a vendor for Baltimore city schools. Trust me. I

know there's a lot of problems at home as well. But it's-it's home....

Bonnie Erbe 15:52

But I mean, yes, but how can you expect that a child whose mother is a prostitute and is addicted to crack or heroin or

opioids, whatever it is, and doesn't even feed the kid breakfast to do well in first grade?

Kim Klacik 16:07

Yeah, no, that's that's a tough issue. It is. And I know we have right now there's so many methadone clinics in West

Baltimore, you would think you would be handling some of this. But that's another thing we would have to take a look at

and see if these methadone clinics are actually working and what's going on. But it is a problem. It's a major problem. I

know somebody like Dr. Thompson back in and Dr. Thornton, and he used to be the CEO of the public schools. I think he

proposed doing boarding school for some kids that maybe had a tough home life. They said No, they're not interested, but

the amount of money that they're spending per pupil, they could actually afford that. You know, and so I understand

there's a lot of obstacles there is, you know, it's like, it's not just the parents, and I'm not even blaming the teachers. There

are just so many obstacles, that it's tough, but there are other cities like DC that do well, and I know it's possible.

Bonnie Erbe 16:58

So describe to me how it felt to become sort of social media famous because of President Trump. Tell me about how that

went for you.

Kim Klacik 17:08

It was interesting, for sure. I lost a lot of people I thought were my friends. You know, at this time, I was already doing

media. And so you know, I guess when you're in that media business, everybody wants, you know, the hit story.

Everybody wants to go viral. And so it was tough, because I had actually had someone I considered a close friend. They

saw the videos, and they saw Trump tweeting it, and he said, you know, your videos aren't comprehensive enough. And

then a week later, I realized he had a Baltimore video coming out, but it was about the vacancies in the homes and it didn't

really do any views because, you know, the rats and trash had taken over. So I understood maybe why he wasn't so happy

about it. But yeah, I learned I guess very quickly, how cutthroat the media business can be and, you know, my mom was a

little worried for my safety. She was like, Oh, no, yeah, she's hardcore Democrat. She's like, Yeah, I know, people are

going to know that I'm your mom. And now you support Trump and they're going to get me at work. I'm like, Mom, that's

not gonna happen, you know. So she was fine. You know, I said, it's a new cycle. Right? It goes on it might will last for

three days, and then it's over so...

Bonnie Erbe 18:20

What you're talking about it all negatives, were there positives to it?

Kim Klacik 18:24

It was tough. Because, you know, it was-it was a weird feeling. There were the local media stations were like, how dare

you? You know, the oldest hashtag we are Baltimore started, how dare you, you know, show the trash and the rats, we are

more than that. And I say, you know, for you to basically say, this isn't happening or this isn't in certain neighborhoods.

You know, you're basically just kind of saying, okay, sweep that under the rug. You're not doing them any favors, you

know, that's not helping them in any way. But then when I would go back to the neighborhoods that I was in, but I shot

the videos. You were like, Kim, you won't believe it. People are coming to pick it up. We're so happy. They were so

excited. And so that's when I started talking to people one on one. And they're like, you know, what, if this is what Trump

does, I might just vote for Trump.

Bonnie Erbe 19:07

But what did he? I mean, did he change any policies, did he gives the money? That I'm just thinking, you know, this was a

one off deal. Is this going to mean that all the poor neighborhoods in Baltimore and we know, climate change a lot of

those things, environmental issues affect more neighborhoods more because they don't have the resources to hire enough

garbage collectors because they don't have whatever it is enough money to get the corporation's dumping toxic waste to

do it somewhere else, like the rich neighborhoods have. So I mean, are they may be giving him too much credit it be?

Does this mean forever he's fixed that problem?

Kim Klacik 19:56

No, but I think people now know in those neighborhoods that they don't have to accept it. The fact that they got on it and

cleaned it up, you know, almost immediately, they then realize, Wow, so somebody actually can come get this when we

asked someone to, you know, I like to remind people, you know, there was, gosh...

Bonnie Erbe 20:12

Weren't they already asking?

Kim Klacik 20:14

Yeah, so there was a backlog. That's why they did the 311 services meeting. And so 311 basically said, Well, we need

more money. We don't have enough people that can actually go into these certain neighborhoods to clean, you know, and

so then they asked him, Well, how come Harbour East and everything else is clean? And they're like, well, we have

people that actually are okay with going in those neighborhoods to clean. So they kind of made it more of like, Oh, so

violent, they don't want to be there. But, you know, I guess some people have to understand, there really is a tale two

Baltimores and I'm not the first person to point this out. I'm not going to be probably the last. But the fact that you can go,

you know, five blocks over and feel like you're in a total different world after the 2015 riots, when Freddie Gray and I say

killed because he definitely didn't die in his own zone in the back of that paddy wagon. But after that, you know, we had

the riots and the looters. And unfortunately, even when Bernie Sanders came in town, he said, Wow, looks like a third

world country over here. That's the neighborhood I was in with the rats and trash. Now I was there for two weeks and I

had to go to the hospital. I got bit by rat mites. I didn't know rats had mites. Apparently they actually carry mites on them.

And I didn't actually go and touch them rat, you know what I mean.

Bonnie Erbe 21:32

Right, it's just the garbage you were handling.

Kim Klacik 21:34

Exactly. And I was in the abandoned homes so that there were mites all around. But you know, these are people that are

dealing with this all the time and in this tough and I think they need someone to come and help them and President Trump

pointed out all the money that was sent to Baltimore in the past four years, and no one seems to have an accounting for

that. So there's probably a good audit that needs to be done as well.

Bonnie Erbe 21:57

Interesting. Now do you think this Republican party or how do you think this Republican party is going to do and then in

the presidential election?

Kim Klacik 22:10

It's tough to say, you know, I look at the margins and I say, okay, gosh, you know, especially in Virginia Trump, he won

in some of those counties that lost last week fairly well, even up by 20. And so the fact that, you know, we had a democrat

takeover in those areas, which the incumbent was republican forever. That's, that's a little frustrating, and I hope the GOP,

the RNC really take a look at this and say, okay, you know, we got to get some boots on the ground. Because otherwise,

you know, it'll be sketchy, and I think President Trump is doing a good job. His rallies are all very entertaining. There's

always lots of people there. But he's just one person, you know, and that's why you know, you have a team.

Bonnie Erbe 22:54

Do you ever wish that there were a third party? I'm asking that because it's one to go from being a Democrat to being

maybe an Independent or even a liberal Republican, yeah, who don't exist anymore really, but used to be a vibrant part of

the party, maybe trying to build back up again, to being a Trumper.

Kim Klacik 24:15

So I guess I look at it as Trump isn't really a Republican, you know, because he was a Democrat. I look at him more as an

Independent You know, a lot of people, I think, remember when he first got an office, everyone was like, Oh, no, he's

gonna deport everyone, we got to protect the back of people, you know, he hasn't done anything on that, right? I don't

think he ever really wanted to. My father used to say that I am socially liberal and consistently conservative. And I believe

that, you know, I have a nonprofit that I've been doing workforce development for seven years, and in Baltimore, in some

parts of West Baltimore, and I do help people, you know, I'm, I'm not one of those extremists who are like, oh, pull

yourself up by your bootstraps, you know, it's like, sometimes you need a little help, you know, and, and I've had help in

my past, and so, I just, I can't imagine turning my back on anyone. But at the same time, it's like we can't just keep

handing them things and thinking that they're going to eventually do for themselves. So I like to basically, you know,

bridge that gap and say, okay, you know, you might be living on dependent on the government now, but, you know, what

steps can we take to go to financial independence, you know, let's work on it. Let's figure this out.

Bonnie Erbe 27:01

What-you mentioned immigration that he's done nothing about it actually, I'm in touch with a lot of pro- and anti-

immigration groups and they would dispute you on that point, he is-because of making Mexico be more vigilant about not

letting central South Americans and Central American people who are on their way up to illegally immigrating to the

United States go through their southern border. He's actually cut way back on the number of illegal entries to the United

States. But aside from that, give me an issue where he's where he's liberal politically.

Kim Klacik 27:41

I think a lot of people thought he was anti-gay or anti-LGBT community. I don't see that in him. I don't see him ever, you

know, he tweets a lot. You know, let's be honest. I don't see him ever any tweeting anything anti-gay or anything like that.

I honestly read anything...

Bonnie Erbe 27:58

Have you seemed him tweet anything pro-LGBTQ?

Kim Klacik 28:00

Um, I guess he kind of strikes me as a guy that probably doesn't even pay attention to it. Do you know what I mean? I

don't I don't think he does.

Bonnie Erbe 28:07

Does that describe a liberal to you?

Kim Klacik 28:08

Does that describe as liberal? I don't think he's liberal. You know, I think liberals do pay attention to you know, the gender

and identity politics side but if you're anything like me, it's not anything that I wouldn't discriminate someone and that

lifestyle and I, I honestly don't think we should be involved in anyone's love life I'm for smaller government. So you

know, I think sometimes, you know, especially right now people are a little confused on on what our conservative values

versus what are not. So...

Bonnie Erbe 28:37

And what about other issues where you would say that he, I mean, he's not liberal on women's issues for sure. He's, he's

appointed Supreme Court justices who are extremely conservative, very pro-corporate, very anti-small business, etc, very,

you know, that he's a populist in that way, but tell-give me some he's very certainly not progressive at all on

environmental issues. He's totally the other end.

Kim Klacik 29:10

Yeah, I always looked at it. I know this might sound crazy. I always looked at it as personality types too, you know, some

people, I think personality type, you know, they're thinking about, you know, the environment all the time. They're

thinking about, you know, we see this back in history, they call them hippies, I guess, right, the tree huggers and all that,

you know, it's like, I think sometimes if your personality doesn't kind of fit with that, it just doesn't. Like me, I'm always

thinking business, right? And insurance. Somebody might say, Well, you know, that's not very socially liberal of you. And

it's like, well, no, in a way it is, because when I go and speak to students at the Baltimore city public schools, and I tell

them, this is a way for you to be pro-business. You can be an entrepreneur, you can do this. Then they say, oh, wow, we

can do this. We can do that. You know, think about social media, people that are bringing businesses on, so media today,

you know, and it's like, that's what I bring to the table and an environmentalist, they can bring that to the table and I

wouldn't shoo them away. I would listen.

Bonnie Erbe 30:09

Well, thank you. Very interesting opinions. Very interesting take. Really appreciate your time with us. Thank you. Thank

you Kim Klacik, and best of luck to you in your future endeavors.

Kim Klacik 30:21

Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Bonnie Erbe 30:24

So that's it for this edition of To The Contrary, please follow me on Twitter and visit our website pbs.org slash To The

Contrary, and whether you agree or think To The Contrary. See you next week.

Announcer 30:34

Funding for To The Contrary provided by the Cornell Douglas Foundation, committed to encouraging stewardship of the

environment, land conservation, watershed protection and eliminating harmful chemicals. Additional funding provided by

the Wallace Genetic Foundation, the Colcom Foundation and the Charles A. Frueauff Foundation.

(Ends)