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Transcript of 10 22 12 0204 2025 063341 Hearing - 183074gw-Full transcript
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7/27/2019 10 22 12 0204 2025 063341 Hearing - 183074gw-Full transcript
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I N THE SECOND J UDI CI AL DI STRI CT COURT OF THE STATE OF
NEVADA
I N AND FOR THE COUNTY OF WASHOE
- oOo-
THE STATE OF NEVADA, : : Pl ai nt i f f , : Case No. CR12- 2025 : Dept No. 10 vs. : : ZACH COUGHLI N, : : Def endant . :======================================================
TRANSCRI PT OF PROCEEDI NGS
HEARI NG
Oct ober 22, 2012
Reno, Nevada
SUNSHI NE LI TI GATI ON SERVI CES Tr anscr i bed By: GAI L R. WI LLSEY, CSR #359, CA CSR
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5 . ^
6 A P P E A R A N C E S
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9 FOR THE PLAI NTI FF:
MR. YOUNG10
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14 FOR THE DEFENDANT: MR. LESLI E
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1 ** . **
2 RENO, NEVADA, MONDAY, OCTOBER 22, 2012, 10: 10 A. M.
3 ** . **
4
5 THE COURT: Pl ease be seat ed. Good mor ni ng.
6 THE DEFENDANT: Good mor ni ng j udge.
7 THE COURT: Good mor ni ng.
8 Thi s i s t he cont i nued t r i al dat e f or t he
9 mat t er of St at e ver sus Zachar y Coughl i n. I do
10 act ual l y have t wo cases. The second one i s a f al se
11 st at ement t o obst r uct i ng a publ i c of f i cer whi ch i s not
12 set f or cont i nued t r i al .
13 The i ssue, as I r ecal l f r om t he pr evi ous
14 hear i ng, i s t hat we had r equest ed an eval uat i on of t he
15 def endant t o see i f he was competent t o cont i nue wi t h
16 t he t r i al . Does anyone know i f we got a r esul t on
17 t hat eval uat i on or ?
18 MR. LESLI E: We di d, your Honor , and i t was
19 addressed t o you and copi ed t o counsel so you may have
20 i t i n your f i l e.
21 THE COURT: I t hi nk I have i t .
22 Okay, i t does appear t hat t he det er mi nat i on
23 was t hat he i s compet ent t o cont i nue so.
24 MR. LESLI E: Yes.
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1 THE COURT: And when we had l ef t of f - -
2 MR. LESLI E: Act ual l y, your Honor , t her e was
3 t hen a subsequent st i pul at i on t o cont i nue t he t r i al
4 date and t o t r eat t oday as si mpl y recei vi ng and maki ng
5 a r ul e on t he compet ency i ssue. The t r i al has
6 act ual l y been r eset , pur suant t o t hat st i pul at i on, t o
7 November 19t h. Mr . Coughl i n has been not i ced.
8 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , and t hat ' s on bot h
9 cases?
10 MR. LESLI E: I ' m sor r y, your Honor , I can' t
11 hear when Mr . Coughl i n keeps t al ki ng i n my ear . What
12 di d t he cour t say?
13 THE COURT: Okay. We' r e t al ki ng r i ght now
14 about t he case whi ch I am t he t r i al j udge whi ch i s t he
15 Case Number 2011- 063341, t he charges bei ng pet t y
16 l ar ceny and possessi on of st ol en pr oper t y. I have a
17 second case whi ch i s - - wel l , l et ' s di spose of t hat
18 one f i r s t , t hat i s the one t hat i s set f or t r i al - -
19 MR. LESLI E: Yes and t oday was t o r ecei ve and
20 have the cour t make a deter mi nat i on wi t h r egar d t o hi s
21 competency t hen we had cont i nued the t r i al out t o
22 November 19t h.
23 THE COURT: And t hat ' s a f ul l day or what
24 t i me ar e we st ar t i ng?
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1 MR. LESLI E: We st ar t at 8: 30 on
2 November 19t h. I assume t hat a day has been set asi de
3 but i t ' s t i me f or t he def ense t o set pr esent i t ' s
4 case.
5 THE COURT: I want t o make sur e; do we have
6 i t set f or t he whol e day. I j ust want t o make sur e
7 because we have - - unf or t unatel y t oday, we' r e down a
8 j udge.
9 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , i f I coul d j ust
10 i nt er j ect , you r ul ed t hat i f I was r ul ed compet ent
11 t hat I woul d be abl e to repr esent mysel f and I wi sh t o
12 do so.
13 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , f i r st t hi ngs f i r st ,
14 what I woul d ask i s t hat you make a rul i ng on t he
15 r ecor d based on t he r epor t as t o hi s compet ency.
16 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
17 Havi ng consi dered t he eval uat i on whi ch was
18 dat ed - - wel l , t he dat e of t he eval uat i on was 9/ 28 of
19 2012. The eval uat i on was conduct ed by Tom Dur ant e,
20 and t he concl usi on of t he r epor t was t hat Mr . Coughl i n
21 was compet ent t o r epr esent hi msel f . I ' m sor r y, was
22 compet ent and f ur t her , i t was t he wr i t er ' s
23 pr of essi onal opi ni on t hat Mr . Coughl i n al so cur r ent l y
24 meet s t hi s cr i t er i a t o be consi der ed t o compet ent t o
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1 st and t r i al . So t he cour t wi l l f i nd t hat he i s
2 compet ent t o st and t r i al .
3 Al so, Mr . Coughl i n i s abl e t o engage i n
4 r eci pr ocal di al ogue. Mr . Coughl i n demonst r at ed t hese
5 abi l i t i es and i t appear s t hat he can wor k wi t h hi s
6 at t or ney as wel l as par t i ci pat e i n t he l egal pr ocess
7 appr opr i at el y i f he so chooses.
8 So t he quest i on whi ch was propounded by Mr .
9 Lesl i e i n t hi s mat t er was answer ed i n t he af f i r mat i ve
10 t hat he i s abl e to wor k wi t h counsel i f he so chooses.
11 So I am goi ng t o f i nd hi m compet ent t o st and t r i al s.
12 So t hat ' s t akes car e of t he f i r st i ssue.
13 MR. YOUNG: Thank you, your Honor .
14 THE COURT: Then t here' s some di scuss i on, by
15 Mr . Coughl i n, as t o whet her or not he shoul d be abl e
16 t o r epr esent hi msel f whi ch I pr evi ousl y r ul ed t o t he
17 cont r ar y on t hat . Mr . Coughl i n has repr esent ed t hat I
18 i ndi cat ed t hat i f he was f ound compet ent , I woul d
19 al l ow hi m t o r epr esent hi msel f , and I don' t r ecal l
20 t hat f r ankl y so.
21 THE DEFENDANT: I t ' s on t he r ecor d, your
22 Honor .
23 THE COURT: So I ' m goi ng t o ask Mr . Lesl i e i f
24 he agr ees wi t h hi s cl i ent t hat I i ndi cat ed t hat i f he
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1 was f ound compet ent , t hat he woul d be abl e to
2 r epr esent hi msel f ?
3 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , my r ecol l ect i on i s
4 t hat you di d make a comment al ong t hose l i nes or al ong
5 t he l i nes of t hat i f he came back compet ent af t er t he
6 Lakes eval uat i on, t hat you woul d be wi l l i ng t o
7 r econsi der i t . I don' t know i f i t was wi l l i ng t o
8 r econsi der or t hat you woul d j ust sor t of
9 aut omat i cal l y al l ow hi m t o r epr esent hi msel f . I t hi nk
10 t hat he woul d pr obabl y need t o pr ovi de at l east some
11 ver bal assurance to t he cour t t hat he woul d not be
12 di sr upt i ve i n t he pr oceedi ngs i f he r epr esent s
13 hi msel f .
14 THE COURT: Wel l , what I ' m goi ng t o do
15 bet ween now and t he cont i nued t r i al dat e, I wi l l make
16 t hat det er mi nat i on. I ' m goi ng t o r eser ve r ul i ng on
17 i t . I am goi ng t o r evi ew t he t r anscr i pt of t he l ast
18 pr oceedi ng as t o t hat i ssue, but I wi l l al l ow bot h
19 counsel t o comment on t hat . I ' ve hear d Mr . Lesl i e. I
20 wi l l hear f r om Mr . Young.
21 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , as best as I can
22 r emember , I do recal l you sayi ng somet hi ng al ong those
23 l i nes, as Mr . Coughl i n has repr esent ed t oday. I don' t
24 r emember your exact words but i t sounds si mi l ar .
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1 MR. LESLI E: I f I coul d j ust add somet hi ng t o
2 t hat . What I woul d ask us t o consi der doi ng i s not
3 comi ng back on t he 19t h of November and maki ng a
4 r ul i ng on t hat i ssue.
5 THE COURT: No. What I envi si oned was
6 r eser vi ng r ul i ng unt i l I can r evi ew t he t r anscr i pt
7 because I don' t have i t her e t oday. I know Mr .
8 Coughl i n has r epr esent ed t hat and i t appear s t her e i s
9 some consensus at l east t hat I was goi ng t o rul e or
10 r econsi der my pr i or r ul i ng. I wi l l set a dat e f or
11 t hat at whi ch we can conduct anot her Faret t a canvas
12 and as wel l as - - assumi ng, f i r st of al l , t hat I f i nd
13 t hat I di d i n f act i ndi cat e t hat I woul d r econsi der
14 i t .
15 MR. LESLI E: And i f I may, my onl y concern
16 t her e as l ong as we pi ck a dat e t hat al l ows a
17 r easonabl e amount of t i me f r om t hat dat e - -
18 THE COURT: I ' m hopi ng t o do i t next week.
19 MR. LESLI E: Okay. And t he r eason f or t hat
20 i s I ' ve assur ed hi m t hat i f we swi t ch t o
21 sel f - r epr esent at i on, t hat t her e ar e cer t ai n what I
22 cal l handof f pr ocedur es t hat I need t o engage i n.
23 I n ot her words, I need t o make sur e he has
24 t he ki nd of evi dence t hat I have and t hi ngs l i ke t hat
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1 THE DEFENDANT: Do what ?
2 MR. LESLI E: I f you don' t want a l awyer and
3 you want t o r epr esent your sel f - -
4 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , i f you want t o set i t
5 f or anot her day, t hat ' s f i ne.
6 THE COURT: No. I ' l l do i t r i ght now. We
7 have i t schedul ed t o do i t so. I was concerned about
8 t he i ssue of whet her or not I had even commi t t ed t o do
9 i t .
10 MR. YOUNG: Wel l and agai n, your Honor , what
11 I r ecal l you sayi ng i s somet hi ng al ong t he l i nes i f
12 he' s compet ent , he can r epr esent hi msel f . J ust
13 because you say t hat and Mr . Coughl i n enj oys doi ng
14 t hi s t hat i f says one t hi ng, he l at ches on t o i t l i ke
15 i t ' s gospel .
16 Regardl ess of what you di d or di d not say,
17 you coul d do a Faret t a canvas now i f you choose t o do
18 so but r egar dl ess of what you sai d back t hen on t he
19 r ecor d j ust because - - he does not aut omat i cal l y get
20 t o r epr esent hi msel f . They' r e t wo mut ual l y excl usi ve
21 i ssues. So i f you' r e goi ng t o do a Far et t a canvas.
22 THE COURT: I wi l l do t he Far et t a canvas now
23 and we' l l make det ermi nat i on.
24 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , af t er your canvas, I
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1 woul d st i l l l i ke t o be hear d.
2 THE COURT: That ' s f i ne. We' l l do a Far et t a
3 canvas. Then we' l l make a det ermi nat i on as t o whether
4 or not you wi l l r epr esent your sel f , Mr . Coughl i n.
5 MR. LESLI E: I t hi nk you shoul d ask hi m up
6 f r ont i f he want s t o r epr esent hi msel f so we don' t
7 equi vocat e and wast e our t i me. I f he doesn' t want t o
8 r epr esent hi msel f , don' t wast e your t i me i s my
9 t hought . We' ve been here bef ore.
10 THE COURT: Mr . Coughl i n?
11 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , can I ent er a f ew
12 t hi ngs f or t he r ecor d. Ther e' s been numer ous
13 vi ol at i ons of N R S- 178. 405 and t hat dur i ng t he
14 pendency of t he or der f or compet ency eval uat i on, t hat
15 counsel has proceeded t o swap hear i ngs and reset dat es
16 and f i l e mot i ons and do al l t he t hi ngs t hat ar e
17 verbot en under 178. 405 and t hi s has happened.
18 THE COURT: What di d he do, si r ?
19 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , I ' ve been subj ect t o
20 numer ous orders f or compet ency eval uat i ons t hi s year
21 and - -
22 THE COURT: That was me, si r , not counsel .
23 THE DEFENDANT: But t he st at ute says al l
24 pr oceedi ngs are st ayed dur i ng t he pendency of such
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1 or der s and yet Mr . Young f i l ed a f ugi t i ve document i n
2 opposi t i on - -
3 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , are we conveni ng
4 anot her Marsden hear i ng?
5 THE DEFENDANT: Excuse me, Mr . Lesl i e.
6 MR. LESLI E: Ser i ousl y, your Honor .
7 THE COURT: I was t al ki ng about your counsel ;
8 has your counsel f i l ed any mot i on i n t hi s case
9 what soever?
10 THE DEFENDANT: Oh Mr . Lesl i e, I don' t t hi nk
11 he' s f i l ed a si ngl e wor d I ' m t al ki ng about ever at
12 al l .
13 THE COURT: Wel l , t hat ' s not t r ue.
14 THE DEFENDANT: Mr . Young f i l ed af t er t he
15 cl andest i ne t ype st at us conf er ence on Febr uar y 27t h,
16 he f i l ed - -
17 THE COURT: Si r , i f you end up r epr esent i ng
18 your sel f , you can ar gue about t hat l at er . I have not
19 consi der ed any mot i ons si nce t he date t hat we l ast
20 met . Ther e' s not hi ng t hat I have done ot her t han
21 r evi ew t he eval uat i on whi ch I j ust di d now i n f r ont of
22 you.
23 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , si r , somet hi ng had t o
24 have been done t o have t hi s become a combo hear i ng.
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1 THE COURT: I t ' s not a combo hear i ng.
2 THE DEFENDANT: We' r e not her e on 067980?
3 THE COURT: I have t he f i l e her e.
4 THE DEFENDANT: I t was r epresent ed t o me t hat
5 we' r e her e on t hi s and f ur t her , we wer e set f or
6 November 15t h.
7 THE COURT: Wel l , we' r e here on t he
8 compet ency because t he compet ency i ncl uded your
9 competency aut omat i cal l y i n ever y case.
10 THE DEFENDANT: And t hat was t o occur on
11 Oct ober 15th, yet somehow, we got t hi s Oct ober 22nd
12 dat e and i n t he i nt er veni ng per i od, t he Oct ober 15t h
13 dat e was swi t ched wi t h Mr . Dogan' s case 650630 and i t
14 wasn' t unt i l I began maki ng i ssue - -
15 THE COURT: I ' m not goi ng t o wast e t i me on
16 t hi s anymor e. Ei t her you want t o r epr esent your sel f
17 or you don' t , "Yes" or "No"?
18 THE DEFENDANT: I cl ear l y do, your Honor .
19 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
20 Then we' l l move t hr ough t he Faret t a canvas
21 and ever yone wi l l be abl e t o ar gue. As t o t hi s ot her
22 case i s - - Mr . Coughl i n, t he ot her case i s set bef or e
23 J udge Cl i f t on. You can ar gue bef or e J udge Cl i f t on on
24 t he ot her case.
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1 THE DEFENDANT: And, your Honor , I ' d l i ke t o
2 pr eserve my obj ect i ons t o t he ext ent t hat we' r e havi ng
3 an unnot i ced Far et t a canvas her e t oday and t hat Mr .
4 Young i s not f or ced t o f i l e a mot i on seeki ng t o set
5 asi de the l aw of t he case whi ch you r ender ed f r om t he
6 bench at t he pr evi ous hear i ng wherei n you announced - -
7 THE COURT: I ' m maki ng t hat det ermi nat i on. I
8 had as I - - you i ndi cat ed t hat my r ecol l ect i on i s t hat
9 I di d not aut omat i cal l y say t hat you woul d r epr esent
10 your sel f . So I bel i eve - - s t i l l bel i eve t hat t her e i s
11 an i ssue as t o whet her or not you shoul d r epr esent
12 your sel f i n t hi s mat t er , but I wi l l come back i n and
13 we wi l l do t he Far et t a canvas and t hen you ar e al l
14 f r ee t o ar gue.
15 ( A r ecess was t aken. )
16 THE COURT: Pl ease be seat ed.
17 Al l r i ght , s i r . I wi l l once agai n advi se you
18 of your r i ght s wi t h r espect t o sel f - r epr esent at i on. I
19 wi l l r ead t o you Supr eme Cour t Rul e 253 whi ch pr ovi des
20 t hat where a def endant appear i ng i n cour t chooses
21 sel f - r epr esent at i on, t he cour t shoul d make a speci f i c
22 penet r at i ng and compr ehensi ve i nqui r y of t he def endant
23 t o det ermi ne whet her or not t he def endant underst ands
24 t he consequences of hi s or her deci si on t o pr oceed
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1 wi t hout counsel .
2 The cour t ' s observat i on of t he def endant
3 shoul d r eveal t hat t he def endant appear s t o under st and
4 t he nat ur e of t he pr oceedi ngs and i s vol unt ar i l y
5 exer ci si ng hi s or her i nf or med f r ee wi l l . The cour t ' s
6 i nqui r y shoul d r eveal whet her t he def endant shoul d
7 consul t wi t h appoi nt ed counsel t o di scuss t he
8 consequences of sel f - r epr esent at i on bef or e deci di ng t o
9 pr oceed i n pr oper per son.
10 Wi t h r espect t o t hat i ssue, I bel i eve you
11 cer t ai nl y have consul t ed wi t h counsel ; i s t hat
12 correct?
13 THE DEFENDANT: Wi t h r espect t o?
14 THE COURT: Sel f - r epr esent at i on. You' ve done
15 i t here i n cour t numerous t i mes; ar e you denyi ng t hat
16 you have consul t ed wi t h counsel , si r ?
17 THE DEFENDANT: Wi t h r espect t o t he
18 consequences of sel f - r epr esent at i on?
19 THE COURT: Yes.
20 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , I haven' t been abl e t o
21 r ecei ve any r esponse f r om Mr . Lesl i e t o a gr eat deal
22 of my i nqui r i es. He has made i ndi cat i on - -
23 THE COURT: I ' m aski ng about speci f i cal l y
24 whet her or not you shoul d r epr esent your sel f .
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1 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , Mr . Lesl i e - - I
2 r evi ewed t he - -
3 THE COURT: Si r , I ' m not goi ng t o pl ay games
4 wi t h you. Ei t her you have consul t ed wi t h hi m or you
5 haven' t .
6 THE DEFENDANT: You r ef er r ed t o on t he
7 r ecor d, your Honor , I hear d and Mr . Lesl i e - -
8 THE COURT: Wel l , l et me go f orward, t hen,
9 si r .
10 The cour t shoul d i nf or m t he def endant of some
11 of t he dangerous di sadvant ages and consequences of
12 sel f - r epr esent at i on whi ch I ' m goi ng t o do.
13 "A. Sel f - r epr esent at i on i s of t en unwi se, and
14 a def endant may conduct a def ense t o hi s or her own
15 det r i ment . " Do you underst and t hat ?
16 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
17 THE COURT: "B. A pr oper per son def endant i s
18 r esponsi bl e f or knowi ng and compl yi ng wi t h t he same
19 pr ocedur al r ul es as l awyer s and cannot expect hel p
20 f r om t he j udge i n compl yi ng wi t h t hese pr ocedur al
21 r ul es. " Do you under st and t hat ?
22 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, your Honor .
23 THE COURT: And "C, t he def endant proceedi ng
24 i n pr oper per son wi l l not be al l owed t o compl ai n on
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1 appeal about t he compet ency or ef f ect i veness of hi s or
2 her r epr esent at i on. " Do you under st and t hat ?
3 THE DEFENDANT: Wi t h r espect t o my own
4 sel f - r epr esent at i on?
5 THE COURT: Yes.
6 THE DEFENDANT: But not wi t h r espect t o Mr .
7 Lesl i e' s pr evi ous r epr esent at i on?
8 THE COURT: Wel l , I presume you woul d be abl e
9 t o, i f you had a l egi t i mat e basi s, t o compl ai n about
10 pr evi ous r epr esent at i on, yes. We' r e t al ki ng about
11 sel f - r epr esent at i on.
12 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r , your Honor but i t
13 seems as t hough a maj or i t y of t he t r i al has t aken
14 pl ace al r eady under Mr . Lesl i e' s wat ch.
15 THE COURT: Si r , t hat ' s not t r ue. The
16 def ense hasn' t st ar t ed yet whi ch i s, as I under st and
17 i t , t he most cri t i cal par t of your def ense.
18 MR. YOUNG: For t he r ecor d, your Honor , I
19 haven' t r est ed yet .
20 THE COURT: And Mr . Young has not r est ed yet .
21 THE DEFENDANT: I under st and, your Honor , but
22 you pr evi ousl y i ndi cat ed t hat we' r e goi ng t o go r i ght
23 t hr ough when t hi s t r i al r esumes and i t ' s goi ng t o be
24 qui ck and expedi t i ous and we' r e not goi ng t o have any
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1 sor t o f - -
2 THE COURT: Si r , you have t he r i ght - - wel l ,
3 you have t he r i ght t o subpoena wi t nesses i f you wi sh.
4 THE DEFENDANT: And I ' ve been depr i ved of
5 t hat by Mr . Lesl i e so f ar .
6 . THE COURT: Wel l , you' r e not bei ng depr i ved
7 of i t i f you r epr esent your sel f . We' r e t al ki ng about
8 sel f - r epr esent at i on.
9 THE WI TNESS: But I was at t he Mot i on To
10 Suppr ess hear i ng whi ch i s of t en where these cases ar e
11 won and l ost .
12 THE COURT: Wel l , si r , you have t he r i ght , i f
13 you r epr esent your sel f t o subpoena wi t nesses.
14 I ' m goi ng t o cont i nue. "D. The St at e wi l l be
15 r epr esent ed by exper i enced pr of essi onal counsel who
16 wi l l have t he advant age of ski l l , t r ai ni ng and
17 abi l i t y. " Do you under st and t hat ?
18 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
19 THE COURT: "E. The proper per son def endant
20 i s not ent i t l ed t o speci al l i br ar y pr i vi l eges, " but
21 si nce you' r e i n cust ody, I don' t bel i eve t hat ' s a
22 probl em.
23 THE DEFENDANT: You say I ' m i n cust ody, your
24 Honor?
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1 THE COURT: Si nce you' r e not i n cust ody.
2 THE DEFENDANT: Oh, I ' m sor r y, your Honor ,
3 okay.
4 THE COURT: Do you underst and t hat ?
5 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
6 THE COURT: "F, a def endant unf ami l i ar wi t h
7 l egal pr ocedur es may al l ow t he pr osecut or an advant age
8 and may not make ef f ect i ve use of t he l egal r i ght s and
9 may make t act i cal deci si ons t hat pr oduce uni nt ended
10 consequences. "
11 THE DEFENDANT: I under st and t hat , si r , yes.
12 THE COURT: And "G. The ef f ect i veness of t he
13 def ense may wel l be di mi ni shed by def endant ' s dual
14 r ol e as at t or ney and accused. "
15 THE DEFENDANT: I under st and t hat as wel l ,
16 your Honor .
17 THE COURT: And t hese are quest i ons t hat I
18 must ask of you.
19 A. What i s your age, si r ?
20 THE DEFENDANT: I ' m 36.
21 THE COURT: And what ' s your educat i on?
22 THE DEFENDANT: I have a Bachel or of Sci ence
23 f r om U N R i n Bi ol ogy, and I have a J ur i s Doct or at e
24 f r om U N L V. I n ' 99 Bi ol ogy, May of ' 99, December of
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1 ' 01, U N L V, J D. I ' m cur r ent l y l i censed bef or e t he
2 Uni t ed St at es Pat ent and Tr ademar k Of f i ce. My l aw
3 l i cense i n Nevada i s on a t empor ar y suspensi on.
4 THE COURT: I asked about your educat i on, not
5 your Bar st at us.
6 THE DEFENDANT: That ' s t r ue.
7 THE COURT: And you are l i t erate?
8 THE DEFENDANT: I bel i eve so, yes, your
9 Honor .
10 THE COURT: And your backgr ound asi de f r om
11 bei ng a l awyer , what pr i or exper i ence di d you have
12 wi t h l egal pr oceedi ngs, si r , ot her t han your own
13 personal exper i ence. Have you r epr esent ed def endant s
14 i n cr i mi nal cases?
15 THE DEFENDANT: You say ot her t han my own
16 per sonal exper i ences, as a pr o se cr i mi nal def endant ?
17 THE COURT: Yes. Ot her t han bei ng a pr o se
18 cr i mi nal def endant , have you r epr esent ed anyone el se
19 i n a cr i mi nal case?
20 THE DEFENDANT: I ' m not sure of f t he t op of
21 my head, your Honor .
22 THE COURT: You' r e not sure. Have you done
23 ci vi l cases.
24 THE DEFENDANT: Oh, yes, si r .
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1 THE COURT: Have you r epresented def endants
2 i n ci vi l cases?
3 THE DEFENDANT: Yes.
4 THE COURT: And pl ai nt i f f s?
5 THE DEFENDANT: Yes.
6 THE COURT: Ar e you f ami l i ar wi t h t he Rul es
7 Of Evi dence?
8 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, your Honor .
9 THE COURT: And what i s your cur r ent heal t h,
10 si r ?
11 THE DEFENDANT: I ' m f i ne.
12 THE COURT: Ar e you t aki ng any medi cat i on?
13 THE WI TNESS: I f I may, your Honor I ' d l i ke
14 t o pr eser ve my obj ect i on t o t hat i nqui r y on pr i vacy
15 gr ounds but - -
16 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
17 Wel l , ar e you under t he i nf l uence of al cohol ?
18 THE DEFENDANT: No, si r .
19 THE COURT: At some poi nt t hough, si r , you
20 can pr ovi de i t t o me conf i dent i al l y or not , but ar e
21 you t aki ng any psychot r opi c dr ugs?
22 THE DEFENDANT: I don' t bel i eve I know what
23 i s i ncl uded wi t hi n t he pur vi ew of t hat t er m, si r .
24 THE COURT: Al l r i ght . Wel l , l et me go on t o
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1 C t hen. Do you have any ment al heal t h hi st ory?
2 THE DEFENDANT: I ' m not sur e what ' s meant by
3 t hat . Your Honor , I bel i eve we al l have ment al heal t h
4 hi st or y.
5 THE COURT: Wel l , have you r ecei ved t r eatment
6 f or any ment al heal t h pr obl ems?
7 THE DEFENDANT: And t hi s i s par t of a Far et t a
8 canvas?
9 THE COURT: Yes. Your ment al heal t h hi st ory
10 i s cer t ai nl y one of t he i ssues.
11 THE DEFENDANT: I ' m not sure what ment al
12 heal t h pr obl ems i ncl udes, your Honor .
13 THE COURT: Wel l , any ment al heal t h probl ems
14 t hat woul d af f ect your abi l i t y t o r epr esent your sel f .
15 THE DEFENDANT: No si r , I don' t bel i eve I
16 have.
17 THE COURT: So you have no mental heal t h
18 hi st or y or cur r ent ment al heal t h pr obl ems t hat woul d
19 af f ect your abi l i t y t o r epr esent your sel f ?
20 THE DEFENDANT: I do not bel i eve so.
21 THE COURT: And have you been t hr eat ened or
22 coer ced i n any way t o wai ve your r i ght t o an at t orney?
23 THE DEFENDANT: I wi sh t o r epr esent mysel f
24 because I bel i eve i t gi ves me t he best chances i n t hi s
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1 set t i ng.
2 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
3 And you underst and you have t he r i ght t o
4 r epr esent or t o r epr esent at i on at no cost i f you' r e
5 unabl e t o pay f or i t ?
6 THE DEFENDANT: That ' s what I ' m t ol d.
7 THE COURT: Wel l , you are r epr esent ed r i ght
8 now, si r , at no cost ?
9 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , I ' m t ol d I can subpoena
10 wi t nesses and yet Mr . Lesl i e has r ef used t o do so.
11 THE COURT: No, si r . I t ol d you i f you
12 r epr esent your sel f , you wi l l subpoena any wi t ness t hat
13 you want .
14 THE DEFENDANT: But I woul d have t o have t he
15 $25 t o pay t hem t hei r subpoena f ee.
16 THE COURT: We haven' t even - - t hat ' s not an
17 i ssue bef ore us r i ght now. You can appl y t o subpoena
18 wi t nesses i f need be.
19 THE DEFENDANT: I was unawar e of t hat , your
20 Honor .
21 THE COURT: Okay.
22 But you are aware t hat you can be r epr esent ed
23 at no cost . You have Mr . Lesl i e r i ght now?
24 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
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1 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
2 Now, I need t o r evi ew wi t h you your
3 under st andi ng of t he el ement s of each of t he cr i mes
4 t hat you are charged wi t h. One of t hose cr i mes, Count
5 I , i s pet t y l ar ceny whi ch i s a vi ol at i on of Washoe
6 Count y Code 53. 160 and 125. 020.
7 What i s your underst andi ng of t he el ement s of
8 t he of f ense, s i r ?
9 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , my underst andi ng
10 i s t hat i n Nevada, f or l ar ceny and i t seems t o be t he
11 case whet her under t he Nevada Revi sed St at ut es ver si on
12 of t he Washoe Count y Code i t ' s t he speci f i c i nt ent of
13 cr i me r equi r i ng a f el oni ous i nt ent at t he t i me of t he
14 t aki ng and any subsequent l y af t er acqui r ed f el oni ous
15 i nt ent wi l l not suppor t a l ar ceny char ge.
16 The ot her el ement s t her ei n woul d be t he
17 t aki ng or t hef t , car r yi ng away of t he pr oper t y of
18 anot her val ued at l ess t han $250 wi t h an i nt ent t o
19 per manent l y depr i ve t hat per son t her eof .
20 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
21 And t he second of f ense i s possessi on of
22 st ol en pr oper t y and what i s your under st andi ng of t he
23 vi ol at i on of NRS- 205. 275?
24 THE DEFENDANT: My underst andi ng i s t hat
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1 under St aub V St at e, t hat t hat char ge i s i mpr oper and
2 t hat t he St at e has f ai l ed t o - -
3 THE COURT: I ' m aski ng but t he el ement s of
4 t he of f ense not whet her i t ' s pr oper or not , si r .
5 THE DEFENDANT: But t hi s goes t o one of t he
6 el ement s, si r , wi t h r espect t o t he St at e' s r equi r ement
7 t hat t hey pl ead i n t he I nf or mat i on t hat Coughl i n t ook
8 t he pr oper t y of anot her and t he St at e f ai l ed t o do so
9 under t he St aub V St at e case.
10 I bel i eve Di st r i ct At t or ney Young l acks an R
11 P C 3. 8 pr obabl e cause basi s f or br i ngi ng t hat
12 dupl i cat i ve char ge i n t hat i t was not not i ced i n t he
13 I nf or mat i on. My under st andi ng of t he el ement s i s
14 that - -
15 THE COURT: There was no I nf ormat i on i n t hi s
16 case, s i r .
17 THE DEFENDANT: I t ' s not an I ndi ct ment . I
18 bel i eve t her e i s i n t he compl ai nt .
19 THE COURT: There i s a compl ai nt , yes.
20 THE DEFENDANT: Whi ch has t o i ncl ude speci f i c
21 f act s or i nf or mat i on suppor t i ng each el ement t her eof .
22 THE COURT: The quest i on, si r , s what ar e t he
23 el ement s of t he of f ense of possessi on of st ol en
24 pr oper t y?
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1 THE WI TNESS: I bel i eve i t i s possessi on or
2 r ecei vi ng pr oper t y one knows t o be st ol en at t he t i me
3 - - and t hi s cor r el at es wi t h t he speci f i c i nt ent at t he
4 t i me of t aki ng f ound i n t he l ar ceny anal ysi s. The
5 same r ul e appl i es i n a possessi on. One has t o know,
6 at t he t i me t hat t hey possessed or r ecei ved t he
7 pr oper t y f r om anot her under St aub V St at e t o be - - t o
8 have t he r equi si t e f el oni ous i nt ent t o suppor t a
9 possessi ng or r ecei vi ng f el oni ous pr oper t y char ge.
10 The r emai ni ng el ement s go t o wi t h an i nt ent
11 t o permanent l y depr i ve I bel i eve and knowl edge t hat
12 t he pr oper t y was st ol en at t he t i me of possessi ng i t .
13 Your Honor , I ' ve submi t t ed t o t hi s cour t a
14 mor e det ai l ed anal ysi s of t he el ement s of t hat char ge
15 as wel l and I ask t hat t hose wr i t i ngs be i ncor por at ed
16 by r ef er ence i nt o t hi s anal ysi s t o t he ext ent t hat
17 t hey pr ovi de suppor t .
18 THE COURT: Wel l , si r , t hat has t o do wi t h
19 t he mer i t s, not t he el ement s of t he of f ense.
20 So agai n, do you underst and t hat one of t he
21 el ement s of t he of f ense i s possessi ng, r ecei vi ng or
22 wi t hhol di ng pr oper t y; do you under st and t hat , si r ?
23 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, I do r ecal l t hat , your
24 Honor .
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1 THE COURT: "G. Def endant s under st andi ng of
2 t he possi bl e penal t i es or puni shment s and t he t ot al
3 possi bl e sent ence t he def endant coul d r ecei ve. "
4 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , i f I coul d j ust
5 backt r ack f or one second, wi t h r espect t o t hat
6 wi t hhol di ng i t has t o be pr oper t y one knows bel ongs t o
7 t he ot her . So i f I can j ust c l ar i f y t hat or
8 r easonabl y bel i eves bel ongs t o t he ot her , wi t h r espect
9 t o t he movi ng f or war d anal ysi s concer ni ng I bel i eve
10 you r ef erenced t he penal t i es one may r ecei ve - -
11 THE COURT: Yes . What ar e t he maxi mum
12 penal t i es t hat you ar e f aci ng i f you ar e convi ct ed of
13 bot h count s?
14 THE DEFENDANT: I bel i eve nei t her of t hese
15 are gr oss mi sdemeanors. They' r e bot h what I woul d
16 deem as s i mpl e mi sdemeanor s or pl ai n mi sdemeanor s,
17 i t ' s up t o $1, 000 f i ne or si x mont hs i n j ai l ,
18 possi bi l i t y of communi t y ser vi ce or some ot her - -
19 THE COURT: I sai d t he maxi mum, si r , whi ch
20 woul d be - -
21 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , i t ' s my underst andi ng
22 you can onl y be convi ct ed of one i n Nevada. So t he
23 maxi mum woul d be up t o si x mont hs i n j ai l or $1, 000
24 and/ or $1, 000 f i ne.
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1 THE COURT: Si r , I underst and what you' r e
2 sayi ng your under st andi ng i s but i f you wer e convi ct ed
3 of bot h, do you under st and i t coul d be consecut i ve
4 sent ences of up t o one year and $2, 000; do you
5 under st and t hat ?
6 THE DEFENDANT: I under st and you' r e
7 i ndi cat i ng t hat , your Honor .
8 THE COURT: And "H, what i s your
9 under st andi ng of t he pl eas t hat may be avai l abl e?"
10 THE DEFENDANT: Ther e' s t hr ee t hat I ' m awar e
11 of your Honor , gui l t y, not gui l t y and no cont est .
12 THE COURT: Okay.
13 And def enses - - I t hi nk you' ve j umped ahead
14 on t hi s but what i s your under st andi ng of t he def enses
15 t hat may exi st ?
16 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , t her e' s a gr eat var i ety
17 of t hem, si r . I bel i eve cl ai m of r i ght woul d be one.
18 THE COURT: I ' m sor r y, I di dn' t hear you?
19 THE DEFENDANT: Cl ai m of r i ght under l et ' s
20 say a hypot het i cal scenar i o. I f t hi s i Phone had been
21 abandoned and i t was no l onger t he pr oper t y of one
22 cer t ai n t hat i t was hi s, t hen t her e woul d be a cl ai m
23 of r i ght of def ense.
24 I f t hi s i Phone woul d be i n t he r i ver but f or
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1 t he i nt er vent i on of some par t y, I t hi nk t her e' s some
2 cl ai m of r i ght of def ense and I ' m speaki ng
3 hypot het i cal l y i n r egar d t o al l of t hese pot ent i al
4 def enses.
5 Ot her def enses woul d i ncl ude a l ack of
6 f el oni ous i nt ent par t i cul ar l y at t he t i me of any
7 al l eged t aki ng or possessi ng. I suppose under t he l aw
8 par t i cul ar l y wi t h a speci f i c i nt ent cri me such as t hi s
9 whi ch I bel i eve t hi s i s under common l aw, r egar dl ess
10 of what t he Washoe Count y Code says, t hat i ncapaci t y
11 coul d be pot ent i al l y a def ense or i nt oxi cat i on, i f
12 t hat wer e at al l an i ssue i n a hypot het i cal scenar i o,
13 ot her pot ent i al def enses.
14 Wel l , I mean t her e' s a gr eat deal of
15 def enses, your Honor , t hat one coul d pur sue, and I ' m
16 not sur e I t ot al l y under st and i n what way you' r e usi ng
17 t hat t er m "def enses. " I mean, one coul d pur sue an
18 excl usi on of evi dence. I don' t know i f t hat ' s
19 t echni cal l y what you' r e i nvoki ng when you ask me wi t h
20 r espect t o def enses.
21 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
22 " I . Do you under st and t hat I may appoi nt
23 st andby counsel and by st andby counsel , i t ' s not
24 somebody t hat you can cal l on seat ed next t o you, i t ' s
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1 somebody who wi l l i n t he event t hat I t er mi nat e your
2 sel f - r epr esent at i on, woul d become t he appoi nt ed
3 counsel i n t he r emai ni ng pr oceedi ngs. "
4 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r . I ' m awar e of t hat .
5 THE COURT: And " J , t hat i f st andby counsel
6 i s appoi nt ed, st andby counsel i s not r equi r ed t o
7 advi se or pr ovi de a pr oper per son def endant wi t h l egal
8 advi ce. " Do you underst and t hat .
9 THE DEFENDANT: I ' ve been made awar e of t hat
10 pr evi ousl y by you, your Honor .
11 THE COURT: And you al so under st and t hat you
12 have 30 days wi t hi n whi ch t o f i l e an appeal f r om t he
13 ent r y of a j udgement of convi ct i on?
14 THE DEFENDANT: I bel i eve i t ' s t en f r om t he
15 r endi t i on, your Honor , and i n a cr i mi nal mi sdemeanor
16 such as t hi s under NRS- 189. 010.
17 THE COURT: And I t hi nk we went t hrough t hi s
18 bef or e and you ar e cor r ect . Thi s i s wr i t t en f or t he
19 di st r i ct cour t .
20 Then bef or e I make any f i ndi ngs, I wi l l al l ow
21 counsel t o ar gue as t o your competency t o r epr esent
22 your sel f i n t he r emai nder of t hese pr oceedi ngs. I
23 wi l l f i r st st ar t wi t h Mr . Lesl i e and t hen I wi l l hear
24 f r om Mr . Young and t hen I wi l l hear f r om Mr . Lesl i e
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1 and t hen I wi l l hear f r om you, i f you wi sh t o add
2 anythi ng.
3 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , si nce we wer e her e l ast
4 t i me and because of t he cour t ' s comment , what ever
5 exact l y i t was, about i f he was f ound competent t hat
6 somehow we woul d addr ess t he sel f - r epr esent at i on i ssue
7 and i n l i ght of what I bel i eve ar e mul t i pl e
8 expr essi ons by Mr . Coughl i n t o i n f act r epr esent
9 hi msel f .
10 I went back and I r evi ewed t he cases and one
11 of t he t hi ngs t hat st ands out I t hi nk i t was t he
12 Vani si case t hat was a capi t al mur der case where
13 ul t i mat el y, he was not al l owed t o sel f r epr esent but
14 t he cour t di d have an extensi ve di scussi on of t hat
15 i ssue. They t al ked about t he Cal i f or ni a r ul e. They
16 made comment and I bel i eve ci t ed some other cases, I
17 don' t r ecal l , about how Nevada l ooks at i s he
18 compet ent underst and what we woul d cal l a Far et t a
19 canvas.
20 Addi t i onal l y, Nevada, t he case l aw appear s t o
21 say i n sever al i nst ances t hat j ust as i mpor t ant i s
22 t hat t he r i ght of sel f - r epr esent at i on i s i mpor t ant and
23 t hat a deni al of sel f - r epr esent at i on, i f i t t ur ns out
24 t he def endant was reasonabl y capabl e of r epr esent i ng
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1 hi msel f , he doesn' t have t o be some per f ect hot shot
2 at t or ney but i f he' s r easonabl y capabl e and he want ed
3 t o r epr esent hi msel f and he was deni ed t hat , I r ecal l
4 a case t al ki ng about t hat wi l l not be vi ewed as a
5 har ml ess er r or and t hat ki nd of pi qued my i nt er est .
6 The addi t i onal t hi ng t hat t he cases t al k
7 about i s i f t he def endant appear s r easonabl y capabl e
8 under Far et t a, t hen Nevada j ur i s pr udence i s al so
9 i nt er est ed i n basi cal l y and t hese ar e my wor ds i s l ook
10 i f t he def endant i s r easonabl y capabl e under Far et t a
11 and i f he under st ands he coul d be t aki ng on - - he
12 coul d be maki ng a mi st ake, i f he under st ands t hat
13 r epr esent i ng hi msel f coul d end up backf i r i ng on hi m,
14 t hat ' s suf f i ci ent , as l ong as he knows t hat goi ng i n.
15 He doesn' t have t o be some gr eat l egal mi nd. He
16 doesn' t have t o be t he best or at or . He doesn' t have
17 t o al ways agr ee or di sagr ee wi t h what t he cour t does
18 but i f he' s r easonabl y capabl e of st andi ng up f or
19 hi msel f i n a cour t r oom. I f he knows what he' s get t i ng
20 i nt o and he knows t he r i sks, t hen he shoul d r epr esent
21 hi msel f .
22 Now, I woul d you know, echo t he concer ns t hat
23 I ' ve had and I t hi nk ot her s have had i n t hi s case t hat
24 t her e' s al ways, based on t he r ecor d i n Mr . Coughl i n' s
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1 conduct , t he r i sk t hat he' s goi ng t o be di sr upt i ve.
2 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , i f I coul d
3 i nt er j ect , Mr . Lesl i e cont i nues t o make hear say
4 st at ement s wi t h r espect t o what ot her s ar e sayi ng.
5 THE COURT: Si r j ust st op. You ar e
6 i nt er r upt i ng r i ght now.
7 THE DEFENDANT: That sai d - -
8 THE COURT: Si r , do you underst and t hat ? You
9 ar e bei ng di sr upt i ve r i ght now and i f I do al l ow you
10 t o r epr esent your sel f , you wi l l not be abl e t o be
11 di sr upt i ve because t hen you wi l l be i n cont empt of
12 cour t ; do you under st and that ?
13 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
14 THE COURT: I ' m gi vi ng you a r i ght t o speak.
15 I ' m al so gi vi ng Mr . Lesl i e a r i ght t o speak. You may
16 di sagr ee wi t h what he says and you' l l be abl e t o
17 addr ess t hat when you make your cl osi ng argument . Al l
18 r i ght ?
19 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
20 THE COURT: Mr . Lesl i e, cont i nue.
21 MR. LESLI E: I f Mr . Coughl i n had been pat i ent
22 and al l owed me t o f i ni sh, what he woul d have heard me
23 say i s t he f ol l owi ng: That not wi t hst andi ng t hat
24 concer n about hi s di sr upt i ve behavi or i n t he past , one
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1 t hi ng t hat I ' ve not i ced i s he appear s, si nce t he l ast
2 hear i ng, t o be mor e ear nest l y i nt er est ed i n
3 r epr esent i ng hi msel f . I t hi nk he' s capabl e of
4 r est r ai ni ng hi msel f and obeyi ng t he cour t . I f you
5 al l ow hi m t o sel f r epr esent , t her e wi l l be t i mes when
6 we may speak out of t ur n but i t ' s my pr edi ct i on, j ust
7 based on what I per cei ve r i ght or wr ong, cor r ect l y or
8 i ncor r ectl y t o be hi s pr esent at t i t ude, i t ' s my
9 per cept i on t hat he' s mor e wi l l i ng t oday t han he has
10 been i n t he past t o r est r ai n hi msel f and t o conduct
11 hi msel f i n an appr opr i at e f ashi on i n cour t .
12 Now, al l of t hat bei ng sai d, I am appoi nt ed.
13 I f he want s t o r epr esent hi msel f , my t wo cent s i s l et
14 hi m but i f you t ur n t hat down, your Honor , t hen I wi l l
15 cer t ai nl y do my best at t r i al and cont i nue t o t r y t o
16 do a good j ob f or hi m. I woul d pr edi ct under t hat
17 scenar i o, t hat t her e wi l l cont i nue t o be hi m want i ng
18 cer t ai n thi ngs done and me sayi ng as t he assi gned
19 counsel , "That ' s not how i t ' s done, " but t hat ' s f or me
20 t o deal wi t h and not t he cour t .
21 Thank you.
22 THE COURT: Mr . Young?
23 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , as a pr el i mi nar y
24 mat t er , i t ' s your ul t i mat e cal l . I don' t bel i eve - -
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1 say i f you do go f orwar d wi t h conduct i ng i n your
2 di scr et i on whet her t o gr ant hi s r equest t o r epr esent
3 hi msel f . That ' s your pur vi ew, not mi ne.
4 As I br ought up l ast t i me t hough, t he case
5 l aw i s ver y cl ear t hat an i ndi vi dual has an
6 unqual i f i ed r i ght t o r epr esent hi msel f i f i t ' s
7 vol unt ar i l y and i nt el l i gent l y made. I f t he r equest i s
8 made i n t hat r egar d but t hese cases are cl ear t hat
9 t her e ar e si t uat i ons wher e a cour t , i n i t s di scr et i on,
10 may deny a r equest f or sel f - r epr esent at i on and on
11 t hose basi s, I obj ect as I di d t he f i r st t i me t hi s
12 r equest was made.
13 One of t hem i s i f t he r equest i s unt i mel y,
14 t hat was f r om t he Lyon' s case. Ther e' s a handf ul of
15 cases. The f i r st case I not i ced was Lyon' s, i t ' s 106
16 Nevada 438, i t ' s a 1990 case and t hi s basi s has
17 car r i ed over t hr ough t he Tanksl ey case whi ch i s 113
18 Nevada, 997, a 1997 case and t he Vani si case whi ch
19 counsel r ef erenced, whi ch i s 117 Nevada 330 a 20011
20 opi ni on.
21 I n Lyon' s, t he cour t f ound t hat t he r equest
22 f or sel f - r epr esent at i on made t he day of t r i al was
23 unt i mel y, deni ed i t on t hat basi s f i ndi ng t hat i t
24 coul d have del ayed t he t r i al . The Supr eme Cour t , on
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1 appeal , af f i r med and uphel d t he t r i al cour t ' s deci si on
2 t o deny t he request .
3 I n t hi s case, we' r e mi dway t hr ough t he t r i al
4 so we' r e even beyond t he f i r st day of t r i al , and we
5 have evi dence t hat ' s been admi t t ed. We have t est i mony
6 t hat ' s been t aken, t hat ' s i n t he r ecor d. So we can' t
7 go back, r egar dl ess of whet her Mr . Coughl i n r epr esent s
8 hi msel f or not , and r edo t hat evi dence and t est i mony
9 t hat ' s i n t he r ecor d. So I woul d obj ect on t hat
10 ground.
11 The second basi s t hat a cour t can deny a
12 r equest f or sel f - r epr esent at i on i s i f t he r equest i s
13 equi vocal . I st i l l have not hear d a "Yes" or "No"
14 answer and even at t he very begi nni ng of t hi s when you
15 asked Mr . Coughl i n i f he want s t o r epr esent hi msel f ,
16 i t wasn' t a "Yes" or " No" . He gave an expl anat i on.
17 I ' m st i l l i nt er ested i n j ust a ver y s i mpl e, "Yes, I
18 want t o r epr esent mysel f . No, I don' t want t o
19 r epr esent mysel f , " or t he answer s we t ypi cal l y get
20 f r om Mr . Coughl i n whi ch i s some sor t of a wor dy answer
21 whi ch does not 100 percent say "Yes" or " No". I woul d
22 be i nt er est ed i n t hat and I t hi nk t hat ' s somet hi ng f or
23 you t o consi der .
24 Anot her basi s i s whet her t he r equest i s made
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1 sol el y f or pur poses of del ay. I cannot speak f or Mr .
2 Coughl i n obvi ousl y. I don' t know what hi s bases ar e
3 f or want i ng t o r epr esent hi msel f but I woul d ask t hat
4 t hat be somet hi ng t hat you consi der and possi bl y
5 i nqui r e of Mr . Coughl i n. We ar e set t o cont i nue t o
6 t r i al November 19t h at 8: 30 whi ch i s l ess t han one
7 mont h away.
8 The f our t h basi s i s whet her t he def endant i s
9 unabl e or unwi l l i ng t o abi de by r ul es of cour t r oom
10 pr ocedur e. Thi s i s l ai d out agai n i n t hose t hr ee
11 cases I ci t ed but most not abl y Tanksl ey and Vani si .
12 The r i ght t o r epr esent , your Honor yoursel f , your
13 Honor , does not al l ow a def endant t o engage i n
14 uncont r ol l abl e and di sr upt i ve behavi or i n t he
15 cour t r oom, t hat ' s out of Tanksl ey and what t hat case
16 al l ows you t o do, your Honor , i n det er mi ni ng
17 di srupt i on, i s t hat t he def endant ' s pr et r i al act i vi t y
18 i s rel evant i f i t af f or ds a str ong i ndi cat or t hat t he
19 def endant i s - - wi l l di sr upt t he pr oceedi ngs i n t he
20 cour t r oom and you may, agai n f r om Tanksl ey, not onl y
21 consi der hi s pr i or behavi or i n t hi s case but f r om t he
22 r el at ed cases t hat you' ve sat on.
23 Agai n, t hat ' s your cal l , your Honor , i f you
24 bel i eve he' s goi ng t o be di sr upt i ve. I cer t ai nl y
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1 t hi nk i t ' s a concer n, and I t hi nk i t ' s f r ankl y a bi g
2 concer n but agai n, t hat ' s your basi s.
3 Those ar e t he bases t hat a cour t , i n hi s
4 di scr et i on, may deny a r equest f or
5 sel f - r epr esent at i on. Even i f you f i nd hi m compet ent
6 t o go f orwar d, t hose ar e separ at e bases. Whet her you
7 f i nd hi m compet ent or not , t hat ' s ent i r el y your cal l ,
8 and I pl ay no par t i n t hat .
9 THE COURT: Mr . Lesl i e?
10 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , j ust t o r espond on a
11 coupl e of ver y l i mi t ed poi nt s, t he comment ar y we j ust
12 hear d about whet her or not t he request f or
13 sel f - r epr esent at i on i s made sol el y f or pur pose of
14 del ay and t hat ' s sor t of r el at ed t o t he i ssue of t he
15 t i mel i ness of t he r equest and j ust t o gi ve you some
16 backgr ound, t he r eason t hat we ent ered i nt o t he
17 st i pul at i on t o have t oday' s compet ency hear i ng and
18 t hen have t he t r i al be sever al weeks l at er i n
19 November , was f or t hat ver y r eason so t hat Mr .
20 Coughl i n woul d not be di sr upt i ng.
21 I n ot her words, i f we came back here t oday
22 and he was f ound competent and t hen he want ed t o sel f
23 r epr esent and you gr ant ed t hat , t hen he coul d j ump up
24 and say, " I need a cont i nuance t o pr epare. " We want ed
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1 t o avoi d t hat and t hat ' s why we spl i t t he mat t er out
2 wi t h t r i al i n November .
3 Then sor t of t he ot her si de of t hat same coi n
4 i s t o make sur e t hat Mr . Coughl i n has t he oppor t uni t y,
5 i f he' s al l owed t oday t o sel f r epr esent , t o r ecei ve
6 any handof f mat er i al s t hat I need t o gi ve hi m sor t of
7 as a counsel t o sel f r epr esent i ng counsel handof f j ust
8 l i ke what woul d happen i f anot her l awyer had been
9 hi r ed and I woul d need t o t r ansmi t document s t o t hat
10 new l awyer .
11 Al l I can t el l you, j udge, wi t h r egar d t o hi s
12 r i sk of bei ng di sr upt i ve i s my per cept i on, based on
13 what I per cei ve t o be hi s desi r e t o sel f r epr esent .
14 My per cept i on i s t hat he' s wi l l i ng t o r ei n i t i n. I
15 don' t di sagr ee wi t h Mr . Young but you shoul d r ecei ve a
16 cl ear "Yes" or "No" f r om Mr . Coughl i n about whet her he
17 want s t o sel f r epr esent .
18 I have a dut y of candor t o t hi s cour t , and I
19 woul d i ndi cat e t hat I t oo t hi nk t hat t hat cl ear answer
20 r emai ns t o be pr ovi ded and t hat ' s somethi ng t hat you
21 shoul d consi der i nqui r i ng of bef or e you make a f i nal
22 deci si on.
23 THE COURT: Mr . Coughl i n, you wi l l be al l owed
24 t o pr esent your own argument at t hi s t i me but bef or e
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1 you do so, I do have some pr el i mi nary quest i ons f or
2 you.
3 Number one, do you wi sh t o r epr esent
4 your sel f , si mpl y "Yes" or "No"?
5 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
6 THE COURT: Number t wo, t her e wi l l be no
7 cont i nuance of t he cour t dat e on November 19t h at 8: 30
8 A M; i s t here any r eason you cannot be pr epared t o
9 move f or war d as schedul ed on November 19t h at 8: 30 A
10 M?
11 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , your Honor , I ' ve
12 cer t ai nl y done a l ot of wor k on t hi s case l at el y, and
13 I ask that t he mat er i al s submi t t ed t o t hi s cour t l ast
14 week be i ncor por at ed her ei n by r ef er ence par t i cul ar l y
15 by t he ext ent t o whi ch t hey al er t t he cour t t o some
16 i ssues t hat - -
17 THE COURT: Wel l , I ' m aski ng you, si r - -
18 THE DEFENDANT: I have a hear i ng wi t h t he
19 St at e Bar t hat i s set f or November 14t h. I f I ' m t ol d
20 I have t o do i t , I ' l l put my game f ace on and show up
21 f or bot h of t hem and do i t but i t ' s a hear i ng wi t h t he
22 St at e Bar , i t ' s an S B N, i t ' s a 105 compl ai nt ,
23 i nvol ves a l ot of t hi ngs t hat I need t o addr ess her e
24 t oday, your Honor , speci f i cal l y somet hi ng I r ef er enced
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1 ear l i er .
2 I f you' r e t el l i ng me t her e wi l l be no
3 cont i nuance, t hen f i ne, I want t o do i t .
4 THE COURT: Si r , t hi s has not hi ng t o do wi t h
5 your St at e Bar hear i ng.
6 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , t hat r emai ns t o be
7 seen, your Honor . I bel i eve I deserve a chance t o
8 est abl i sh t hat .
9 Wi t h r espect t o t he sel f - r epr esent at i on
10 argument s put f orward by Mr . Young, under Pope V
11 St at e, Mr . Young f ai l ed t o oppose any mot i on f or me t o
12 appear as my own counsel . Mr . Young di d f i l e a
13 f ugi t i ve document af t er bei ng awar e of an or der f or a
14 competency eval uat i on bei ng ent ered whi ch i s a
15 vi ol at i on of NRS- 178. 40f i ve.
16 Fur t her , Mr . Young at t empt ed - -
17 THE COURT: I di d not consi der any mot i on
18 f i l ed af t er t he or der f or your compet ency eval uat i on.
19 THE DEFENDANT: I ' m t al ki ng about
20 Febr uar y 27t h at 2: 55 f i l e stamped opposi t i on i n t hi s
21 case t o my Febr uary 15t h mot i on, and you di d consi der
22 i t , your Honor , at t he pr evi ous t r i al dat e. Any
23 document f i l ed by Mr . Young, t hat or der - - I need t o
24 go i nt o t hi s, your Honor . Febr uar y 27t h t her e was
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1 a - -
2 THE COURT: Wel l , si r , I t hi nk you' r e not
3 answer i ng t he i ssue bef ore us t oday and t hat ' s whet her
4 or not you are compet ent , not whether or not Mr . Young
5 di d somet hi ng i mpr oper , not whet her or not Mr . Lesl i e
6 di d somet hi ng i mpr oper .
7 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , he' s ar gui ng t hi s al l
8 t hi s Tanksl ey and al l t hi s stuf f .
9 THE COURT: No. I ' m aski ng you t o addr ess t he
10 i ssue of whet her or not you' r e compet ent t o r epr esent
11 your sel f , not t o ar gue your case.
12 THE DEFENDANT: You l et Mr . Young make al l
13 t hi s argument - -
14 THE COURT: The onl y t hi ng t hat he argued - -
15 si r , what he ar gued was t i mel i ness, whet her or not you
16 had gi ven a si mpl e "Yes" or "No" answer t o r epr esent
17 your sel f , whet her t hi s woul d del ay t he t r i al and
18 whet her or not you woul d engage i n uncont r ol l abl e or
19 di sr upt i ve behavi or .
20 So t hose ar e t he i ssues t hat I want you t o
21 addr ess and otherwi se, I have no quest i on about your
22 i nt el l ect ual abi l i t y. You don' t have t o demonst r at e
23 i t f or me her e t oday by ar gui ng about t he l aw or
24 whet her or not Mr . Young has done somet hi ng i mproper
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1 bef or e. The i ssue i s whet her or not you wi l l be abl e
2 t o r epr esent your sel f .
3 THE DEFENDANT: Mr . Young has ci t ed l egal
4 aut hor i t y t oday Tanksl ey and made l egal argument t hat
5 t he cour t al l owed hi m t o make.
6 THE COURT: Cor r ect .
7 THE DEFENDANT: Rel at ed t o Tanksl ey and t he
8 t i mel i ness of t hi s, t he ext ent t o whi ch he has
9 pr evi ousl y opposed i t and al l t hese ar gument s I ' m
10 maki ng go di r ect l y t o r ebut t he ar gument s t hat Mr .
11 Young has made. To t he ext ent t hey br i ng t o l i ght
12 mat t er s t hat ar e uncomf or t abl e t o t he Publ i c
13 Def ender ' s Of f i ce wi t h r espect t o t he pot ent i al
14 mi sconduct i n t hi s case, shoul d not pr ecl ude me f r om
15 bei ng abl e t o addr ess t hese i ssues.
16 Under Pope V St at e, i f t he St at e does not
17 oppose a mot i on, I shoul d wi n on t hat mot i on. Fi l i ng
18 a f ugi t i ve document dur i ng the pendency of a
19 compet ency eval uat i on on Febr uary 27t h f i l ed st amped
20 at 2: 55 P. M. - -
21 THE COURT: Okay, l et ' s make t hi s cl ear . I ' m
22 t al ki ng about t oday, not Febr uar y.
23 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , but t hat goes t o t he
24 t i mel i ness t hough. Fur t her t o t he ext ent t hat I was a
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1 l i censed at t or ney - -
2 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , si r , l et me make i t
3 t hi s even easi er . The t i mel i ness i ssue, t o me, i s not
4 an i ssue i f you ar e pr epar ed t o go f or war d on
5 November 19t h at 8: 30 A. M. because i t wi l l not del ay
6 anyt hi ng i f I al l ow you t o r epr esent your sel f but i f
7 you, by r epr esent i ng your sel f , ar e not goi ng t o be
8 abl e t o go f or war d on 11/ 19, t hen i t i s an i ssue. So
9 why don' t you addr ess t hat .
10 THE DEFENDANT: I ' l l be abl e t o go f orward.
11 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
12 Number t wo i s whet her or not you' r e goi ng t o
13 engage i n uncont r ol l abl e or di sr upt i ve behavi or and by
14 t hat what I mean i s i f you go f or war d, I wi l l hol d you
15 st r i ct l y t o t he nor mal cour t decor um whi ch i s t hat
16 when Mr . Young i s exami ni ng a wi t ness, f or exampl e,
17 you do not i nt er r upt . When a wi t ness i s speaki ng, you
18 do not i nt er r upt except t o pose a l egal obj ect i on.
19 When you cal l a wi t ness, t he same r ul es wi l l appl y t o
20 you. You wi l l not be abl e t o t est i f y. By t hat , I
21 mean make ar guments whi l e you ar e exami ni ng a wi t ness
22 or speaki ng as an at t orney when you' r e.
23 On t he st and, of cour se, you' l l be abl e t o
24 t est i f y i f you wi sh t o t est i f y but ot her wi se, you wi l l
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1 Washoe Count y Publ i c Def ender hel d a st at us conf erence
2 t hat t hey had not i ced me on.
3 THE COURT: Mr . Young does not prosecut e i n
4 Muni Cour t so I don' t know what st atus conf er ence he
5 hel d i n Muni ci pal Cour t .
6 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , I t hi nk t hat ' s a
7 r el evant i nqui r y t he ext ent t o whi ch Mr . Young, publ i c
8 def ender s and t he Di st r i ct At t or ney' s Of f i ce
9 communi cat ed wi t h J udge Dorot hy Nash Hol mes pr i or t o
10 our r et ur ni ng t o Muni cour t and hol di ng a t r i al
11 despi t e t he pendency of an order f or a competency
12 eval uat i on t hat day.
13 Mr . Young at t empt ed t o hol d a t r i al i n t hi s
14 case on May 7t h despi t e - - i t was onl y May 9t h when
15 J udge El l i ot t r et urned CR12- 0376 back t o J ust i ce
16 Cour t .
17 THE COURT: Si r , I ' m si mpl y t el l i ng you t hat
18 i f I do or der t hat you r epr esent your sel f , you wi l l
19 not be abl e t o engage i n di sr upt i ve behavi or ; do you
20 under st and t hat ?
21 THE DEFENDANT: I under st and t hat , your
22 Honor .
23 THE COURT: And do you underst and t hat
24 di sr upt i ve behavi or i ncl udes speaki ng out of t ur n?
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1 THE DEFENDANT: I do, si r .
2 THE COURT: I nt er r upt i ng counsel ,
3 i nt er r upt i ng wi t nesses, t est i f yi ng when you ar e act i ng
4 as an at t orney?
5 THE DEFENDANT: I do, si r . Lat el y, I ' ve
6 t aken a gr eat deal of ef f or t t o get bet t er at t r i al
7 pr act i ce wi t h r espect t o not maki ng argument dur i ng my
8 quest i oni ng and bet t er compar t ment al i zi ng t he
9 di f f er ent par t s of a t r i al , wher eas pr evi ousl y t hose
10 had bl ed t o i nt o one anot her . I ' ve l i st ened t o t he
11 evi ct i on mat t er sever al t i mes and I ' ve l ear ned f r om
12 that.
13 THE COURT: Wel l , per f ect i on i s not r equi r ed
14 but i nt er r upt i on i s si mpl e. So per haps aski ng an
15 i mpr oper quest i on i s a l i t t l e bi t di f f er ent because
16 Mr . Young can obj ect , and I can sust ai n t he obj ect i on
17 but i f you i nt er r upt hi m or a wi t ness or engage i n
18 argument dur i ng t i me when you' r e supposed t o be aski ng
19 quest i ons, t hen t hat woul d be di sr upt i ve; under st ood?
20 THE DEFENDANT: I under st and, your Honor , and
21 i f I coul d j ust qui ckl y addr ess t he ext ent t o whi ch
22 Mr . Young has pur por t ed case l aw al l ows you t o
23 consi der ot her mat t er s beyond t hi s proceedi ng and t hi s
24 anal ysi s, I woul d obj ect t o t he ext ent t hat I was - -
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1 THE COURT: I ' m consi der i ng t hi s mat t er , si r .
2 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , but pr evi ousl y on t he
3 r ecor d, you' ve r ef er enced evi ct i on mat t er s.
4 THE COURT: I di d and I wi l l t el l you t hi s,
5 you don' t even need t o go any f ur t her because I ' m
6 goi ng t o gr ant your r equest . However , I ' m goi ng t o
7 appoi nt Mr . Lesl i e as st andby counsel . I f you di sr upt
8 t he pr oceedi ngs i n any way, not onl y wi l l I hol d you
9 i n cont empt but I wi l l have hi m f i ni sh t he t r i al ; do
10 you underst and t hat ?
11 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
12 THE COURT: And I wi l l f ur t her or der i f you
13 pr epar e a pr oper mot i on I n For ma Pauper i s t hat you' l l
14 be abl e t o subpoena wi t nesses wi t hout expense and - -
15 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor , i f I coul d j ust
16 i nt er j ect , woul d t hat ext end t o Subpoena Duces Tecum
17 as wel l ?
18 THE COURT: I t wi l l except we have no f und t o
19 pay f or t he wi t ness f ees so t hat i s - - I wi l l enabl e
20 you t o subpoena wi t nesses. I don' t know how we
21 compensat e t hem.
22 THE DEFENDANT: I woul d i magi ne t he Washoe
23 Count y Publ i c Def ender has some means of doi ng that .
24 MR. LESLI E: I f he' s goi ng t o r epr esent
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1 hi msel f , he doesn' t di p i nt o our publ i c f unds.
2 THE DEFENDANT: You haven' t spent a di me on
3 me yet .
4 THE COURT: Si r , I am goi ng t o al l ow you t o
5 subpoena wi t nesses, and you need to get cr acki ng on
6 t hat so you get i t done.
7 THE DEFENDANT: I t ' s my underst andi ng t hat ' s
8 a r i ght of mi ne as a cr i mi nal def endant t o be abl e t o
9 subpoena wi t nesses.
10 THE COURT: I t i s, t he onl y t hi ng I ' m
11 al l owi ng you t o subpoena t hem wi t hout advanci ng t he
12 f ees.
13 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.
14 THE COURT: I may, at a l ater poi nt , or der
15 t hat you pay t hose f ees but i n t he meant i me, I wi l l
16 al l ow you t o subpoena wi t nesses wi t hout advanci ng t he
17 f ees.
18 THE DEFENDANT: Al l r i ght , yes, si r , and your
19 Honor , I woul d j ust pr eser ve my obj ect i on t hat t he
20 Washoe Count y Publ i c Def ender shoul d have t o pay.
21 THE COURT: I t ' s not an obj ect i on, si r .
22 THE DEFENDANT: Or make a mot i on t hat t he
23 Washoe Count y Publ i c Def ender ' s - -
24 THE COURT: Wel l , you can make a wr i t t en
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1 mot i on separ at el y f r om t oday' s pr oceedi ng.
2 MR. LESLI E: So now I get t o l i t i gat e wi t h
3 hi m? Ser i ousl y, your Honor , i s t hat what we' r e doi ng?
4 THE COURT: No. I n f act , on r econsi der at i on,
5 you cannot do t hat .
6 THE DEFENDANT: I ' m sor r y, your Honor what?
7 THE COURT: You cannot argue as t o t he Publ i c
8 Def ender payi ng t he f ees. You' r e choosi ng t o
9 r epr esent your sel f .
10 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r , your Honor .
11 THE COURT: So at a l at er poi nt i n t i me, I
12 wi l l det er mi ne your f i nanci al abi l i t y t o pay t he
13 wi t ness f ees.
14 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r , and woul d t hat al so
15 ext end t o t he Subpoena Duces Tecum f ees as wel l ?
16 THE COURT: Yes.
17 THE DEFENDANT: Transcr i pt , you r ef erenced a
18 t r anscr i pt ?
19 THE COURT: No, I ' ve al r eady deni ed t hat .
20 THE DEFENDANT: Okay but when you r ef er enced
21 one, you wer en' t r ef er r i ng t o t hat has or wi l l be
22 pr epar ed i n t hi s mat t er ? I suppose you wer e r ef er r i ng
23 t o t he audi o.
24 THE COURT: There' s no t r anscr i pt pr epar ed,
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1 no, t he same t hi ng we have f ur ni shed t o you, si r ,
2 whi ch i s t he di sk.
3 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
4 THE COURT: We have no t r anscr i pt .
5 THE DEFENDANT: And, your Honor , i f I coul d
6 j ust preser ve or make a mot i on f or t he r ecor d t he
7 ext ent t o whi ch you have pr evi ousl y i ndi cat ed t hat
8 your r ul i ng on t he mot i on t o suppr ess i s not f i nal ,
9 t hat i t i s open t o f ur t her i nqui r y and I woul d submi t
10 t hat I shoul d be af f or ded a r i ght t o l i t i gat e t hat ,
11 your Honor , par t i cul ar l y gi ven t he pr ej udi ce t o t hi s
12 mat t er and hopef ul l y - -
13 THE COURT: Si r , you wi l l have t he r i ght t o
14 obj ect dur i ng t he bal ance of t hese pr oceedi ngs t o any
15 t est i mony whi ch i ncl udes t hi ngs t hat have not been
16 r esol ved by t he cour t , however , t he mot i on to suppr ess
17 i f you bel i eve t hat i t was not a f i nal deci si on, you
18 wi l l need t o pr esent t he cour t - - you have t he
19 t r anscr i pt .
20 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
21 THE COURT: So you can t ype out t hat sect i on
22 of i t and pr ovi de i t t o t he cour t .
23 THE DEFENDANT: I n t hat r egard, your Honor ,
24 may I be af f or ded t he seal ed por t i ons of t hat
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1 t hat t he mot i on t o suppr ess was not f i nal .
2 THE COURT: I sai d i f you pr esent me wi t h
3 evi dence of t hat , I wi l l consi der i t at t he
4 appr opr i at e t i me.
5 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , I need t o set a
6 r ecor d now.
7 When we had t he mot i on t o suppress, you
8 act ual l y gr ant ed i n par t t he mot i on. Ther e was
9 cer t ai n evi dence t hat you excl uded f r om t he t r i al t hat
10 at t r i al , we di d not admi t based on your r i l e r ul i ng.
11 However , you deni ed, i n par t , t he mot i on t o suppr ess.
12 To my knowl edge, you di d not - - t hat was not an
13 equi vocal or der . So i f Mr . Coughl i n want s t o f i l e a
14 mot i on t o suppor t t hat i t was equi vocal , t hat ' s f i ne
15 but i t ' s my under st andi ng i t was a f i nal or der t hat
16 you made i n t he mot i on t o suppress.
17 THE COURT: Wel l , t hat ' s my underst andi ng as
18 wel l , but Mr . Coughl i n i ndi cat ed t hat he has some
19 l anguage i n t he pr i or r ul i ng of t he cour t t hat made i t
20 equi vocal . So i t ' s up t o you t o pr esent t hat wi t h
21 ki ndl y not i ced t o t he Di st r i ct At t or ney and i t has t o
22 be i n t i me f or hi m t o r espond i n t he pr oper f or mat .
23 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r . I f I may make a
24 mot i on t o have t he t r anscr i pt pr epar ed?
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1 THE COURT: You can' t make a mot i on t oday. A
2 mot i on t o what ?
3 THE DEFENDANT: Have t he t r anscr i pt prepared
4 at publ i c expense?
5 THE COURT: Deni ed. You have a copy of t he
6 di sk. I mean, what you' r e t al ki ng about i s pr obabl y
7 one or t wo paragr aphs.
8 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
9 THE COURT: Whi ch you can t ype out .
10 Anyt hi ng el se?
11 MR. LESLI E: The onl y r emai ni ng t hi ng, your
12 Honor , i s what I ' l l do i s cer t ai nl y bef or e t he end of
13 t he week, hopef ul l y by t omor r ow, I ' l l e- mai l Mr .
14 Coughl i n and we' l l make ar r angement s f or hi m t o pi ck
15 up mat er i al s such as copi es of di sks of var i ous
16 r ecor di ngs t hat he I t hi nk want s t o t r y t o pr of er i nt o
17 evi dence, an addi t i onal handof f copy of pol i ce r epor t s
18 and t hi ngs l i ke t hat . We have an ongoi ng di sput e
19 about whet her he ever r ecei ved hi s di scover y or not
20 but now t hat he' s t aki ng over hi s own counsel , I t hi nk
21 a cour t esy wi t hi n t he l egal i ndust r y i s t hat I gi ve
22 hi m a copy of ever ythi ng t hat he mi ght need f or t r i al
23 r egar dl ess of whet her he' s pr evi ousl y r ecei ved i t .
24 THE DEFENDANT: And I ' d ask t hat i t be
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1 pr esent ed di gi t al l y by e- mai l or f ax and t her ef or e,
2 t her e wi l l be no di sput e i n t hat r egar d.
3 MR. LESLI E: I f he can qui t , I ' l l f i ni sh my
4 wor ds.
5 THE COURT: Si r , you' r e i nt er r upt i ng. I t ol d
6 you t hat I woul d hol d you i n cont empt of cour t i f you
7 i nt er r upt . I don' t know how t o make i t any cl ear er .
8 Thi s i s t he l ast t i me I wi l l advi se you; i s t hat
9 underst ood?
10 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r .
11 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
12 Mr . Lesl i e?
13 MR. LESLI E: And I ' l l say t hi s I di d pr ovi de
14 hi m some mat er i al s by way of PDF and t hat ' s act ual l y
15 not a bad i dea. So I ' l l t ake hi m on hi s suggest i on on
16 t hat . The onl y except i on t o t hat mi ght be some of
17 t hese vi deo di sks or audi o di sks, we' l l make an
18 at t empt but when t he t i me comes i f we can' t t r ansmi t
19 ever yt hi ng by e- mai l at t achment , I ' l l l et hi m know
20 whi ch i t ems ar e avai l abl e f or pi ckup and i t wi l l be
21 hi s r esponsi bi l i t y t o pi ck t hose up f r om our of f i ce.
22 I ' m not goi ng t o get i n a pi ssi ng mat ch wi t h
23 hi m over t he next sever al weeks about whether or not
24 he' s recei ved document . I ' l l document t hat by e- mai l .
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1 The bur den wi l l be on hi m and he can get t hose.
2 So we' l l do t he handof f and he can pr epare
3 hi s t r i al . Then I ' l l be back her e on t he 19t h and
4 I ' l l si t i n t he audi ence i n case i s hel d i n cont empt
5 or i s ot her wi se unabl e t o act ual l y r epr esent hi msel f .
6 We had previ ousl y opposed appoi nt ment as
7 st andby counsel . I t hi nk t her e ar e a l ot of good
8 pol i cy r easons f or t hat especi al l y i n a case l i ke t hi s
9 but I wi l l be back her e on t he 19t h as or der ed by t he
10 cour t . Unl ess t her e' s anyt hi ng f ur t her , we woul d ask
11 t o be abl e t o be excused.
12 THE COURT: You may be.
13 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , bef ore he' s excused,
14 we have anot her day t hat ' s set f or t oday f or a st at us
15 hear i ng t hat Mr . Lesl i e does r epr esent hi m on.
16 THE COURT: Oh, yeah. You do need t o st ay
17 t hen because I ' m not r ul i ng on t hat case. I t hi nk
18 t hat ' s up t o J udge Cl i f t on, i t ' s anot her depar t ment
19 but i t i s bef or e me f or a possi bl e pl ea.
20 Mr . Coughl i n?
21 THE DEFENDANT: Ther e i s one i mpor t ant
22 mat t er , your Honor , addi t i onal l y i s t hat t he ext ent t o
23 whi ch Mr . Lesl i e and t he pr evi ous publ i c def ender s
24 have i nsi st ed upon r edact i ng mat er i al s t hat ar e of
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1 mater i al r el evance t o my def ense i ncl udi ng t he phone
2 number s of t he 911 cal l s so that I can say t he
3 i dent i t y of i ndi vi dual I deem U F C guy i n var i ous - -
4 THE COURT: The what , t he U F C?
5 MR. LESLI E: I t hi nk I can addr ess t hat .
6 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , I ' d l i ke t o addr ess i t .
7 Mr . Lesl i e has r ef used t o pr ovi de me r esul t s
8 of a subpoena of Mr . Gobl e' s cal l r ecor ds dur i ng t he
9 ni ght or t he number s of t he 911 di spat ch r ecor ds
10 maki ng i t i mpossi bl e f or me t o ascer t ai n t he i dent i t y
11 of t he i ndi vi dual , Mr . Gobl e i dent i f i es t he most
12 physi cal l y aggr essi ve wi t h Coughl i n on t hat ni ght .
13 These ar e al l of mat er i al r el evance. I need
14 t o know who made what cal l and when and who t hose
15 account s bel ong t o, t o t he ext ent t hat t hey
16 necessar i l y i mpeach t he t est i mony of t hese wi t nesses.
17 Thi s has been made i nordi natel y di f f i cul t t o t he
18 extent t hat Mr . Lesl i e has r ef used t o pr ovi de me a
19 physi cal copy of Mr . Gobl e' s cal l r ecor ds as he
20 apparent l y has subpoenaed. Even wher e say the 911
21 di spat ch cal l s have been pr opounded, t he numbers
22 at t ached t o t hose cal l s have been r edacted.
23 Fur t her , I bel i eve t he St at e shoul d be
24 r equi r ed t o pr opound t o me di scover y and pot ent i al l y
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1 excul pat or y mat er i al s t hat have been wi t hhel d
2 speci f i cal l y di spat ch r ecor di ngs f r om t hat ni ght ,
3 ot her 911 cal l s t hat upon i nf or mat i on and bel i ef wer e
4 made by ot her i ndi vi dual s i ncl udi ng but not l i mi t ed t o
5 Tanner Chan.
6 THE COURT: Okay, si r , as t o what t he St ate
7 needs t o do or not , you' l l have t o make a pr oper
8 di scover y mot i on f or t hat .
9 As t o counsel , I wi l l hear f r om hi m as t o
10 what i t i s t hat - -
11 MR. LESLI E: And I ' m happy t o di scl ose t hi s
12 your Honor . We had subpoenaed t he cel l phone r ecords
13 of Mr . Gobl e and t hose cont ai n several pages of
14 ent r i es t o t ext messagi ng, dat a acqui si t i on and
15 t el ephone cal l s.
16 Ther e' s a comparat i vel y narr ow number of l i ne
17 ent r i es t hat act ual l y appl y t o t he r ough t i mef r ames
18 i nvol ved i n t hi s case when t he cel l phone was
19 al l egedl y t aken. I di d - - I ' l l be ver y candi d. I di d
20 r ef use t o pr ovi de t hose document s t o Mr . Coughl i n
21 because i t was my bel i ef , at t he t i me, t hat he woul d
22 abuse t hat i nf or mat i on and cont act peopl e i n t hose
23 r ecor ds whose phone numbers are di scl osed by vi r t ue of
24 t hose phone numbers bei ng i n t hose r ecor ds. I made
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1 t hat det er mi nat i on. I t hi nk i t was a sound deci si on
2 at t he t i me. I don' t have any pr obl em pr oduci ng hi m
3 an unr edact ed copy of t hat . I f he' s goi ng t o act as
4 counsel , t hen he' s subj ect t o di sci pl i ne and he' s
5 subj ect t o cont empt and he may be subj ect t o ci vi l
6 l i abi l i t y i f he abuses t hose number s i n any way but I
7 was not , as an of f i cer of t he cour t , wi l l i ng t o t ur n
8 t hem over t o hi m when he was my cl i ent .
9 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , si r , wel l t hat answer s
10 t he quest i on. You wi l l r ecei ve t hem, however , wi t h
11 t he caveat t hat i f you har ass t hose peopl e or do
12 anyt hi ng ot her t han what a nor mal at t orney coul d do
13 wi t h r espect t o cont act , t hen you coul d be i n cont empt
14 of cour t or i n vi ol at i on of t he l aw, ci vi l or
15 cr i mi nal ; do you under st and t hat ?
16 THE DEFENDANT: I under st and t hat , your
17 Honor . I al so underst and t here' s a 6t h Amendment
18 Ri ght t o conf r ont at i on and I bel i eve t he ext ent - -
19 THE COURT: Conf r ont at i on wi t h t he wi t nesses
20 agai nst you, not t hi r d par t i es t hat ar e not wi t nesses
21 agai nst you.
22 THE DEFENDANT: Wel l , cer t ai nl y a def endant
23 has an oppor t uni t y t o i nt er vi ew mat er i al wi t nesses.
24 THE COURT: That ' s t r ue but you' r e t al ki ng
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1 about conf r ont at i on, si r . Conf r ont at i on onl y appl i es
2 t o t he wi t nesses agai nst you.
3 THE DEFENDANT: Poi nt t aken, your Honor .
4 Wel l , t o t he wi t nesses - -
5 THE COURT: Yes, t hat ' s what conf r ont at i on
6 i s. Your ri ght t o conf r ont at i on.
7 THE DEFENDANT: And when you speak of t hi r d
8 par t i es, you mean t hose who have not been wi t nesses?
9 THE COURT: Not subpoenaed or wi t nesses i n
10 t hi s t r i al and t hen t he mat er i al i t y appl i es as t o
11 whet her or not t hei r pot ent i al t est i mony i s mat er i al
12 t o an i ssue t hat i s mat er i al i n t hi s case.
13 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, si r , your Honor . And so
14 t o cl ar i f y - -
15 THE COURT: I mean, i t ' s r el evant t o a
16 mat er i al i ssue i n t hi s case.
17 THE DEFENDANT: To cl ar i f y, your Honor , Mr .
18 Lesl i e i s t o pr oduce t o me unr edact ed ver si ons of al l
19 t hat pr opounded by t he St at e i ncl udi ng t he 911
20 di spat ch l ogs.
21 THE COURT: What he r ecei ved f r om t he St at e.
22 MR. LESLI E: They weren' t pr oduced by t he
23 St at e. We subpoenaed t hem.
24 THE COURT: Wai t , we' r e t al ki ng about t wo
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1 separ at e t hi ngs.
2 MR. LESLI E: Mr . Coughl i n, you ar e so out of
3 l i ne and of f base i t ' s l aughabl e.
4 THE DEFENDANT: How so? Your Honor , t hat ' s
5 pr ej udi ci al - -
6 THE COURT: Si r , l et ' s st op ar gui ng.
7 MR. LESLI E: I f you order me t o pr oduce t hem,
8 I ' l l pr oduce t hem but I onl y want t o do i t i f you
9 order me, I have t o be honest .
10 THE COURT: I ' m order i ng you t o pr oduce what
11 was f ur ni shed t o you by t he St at e, number one.
12 MR. LESLI E: Let me cl ar i f y and t hat wi l l be
13 done because al l di scover y mat er i al s wi l l be handed
14 o f f .
15 THE COURT: And number t wo, what you agr eed
16 t o ear l i er was t he unr edact ed subpoenaed i nf or mat i on
17 t hat he has been warned i s not t o be used i n any way
18 ot her t han f or pur poses of t hi s t r i al f or somet hi ng
19 t hat i s r el evant t o a mat er i al i ssue i n t hi s t r i al .
20 MR. LESLI E: And wi t h t hat under st andi ng, I
21 wi l l pr oduce t hose i n unr edact ed f or m as wel l .
22 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
23 THE DEFENDANT: