05 Summer Bock Sauerkraut for Gut Healing and Reducing Anxiety · 2019-11-04 · her • The good...

Summer Bock – Sauerkraut for Gut Healing and Reducing Anxiety www.theAnxietySummit.com May 6-20, 2015

© 2015 Trudy Scott All Rights Reserved of 26

Summer Bock – Sauerkraut for Gut Healing and Reducing Anxiety

• Summer’s journey and recovery from allergies, gut problems, anxiety and panic attacks, and how fermented foods turned things round for her

• The good bacteria we get from fermented foods: psychobiotics and anxiety

• Sauerkraut: a “promising nutraceutical for the treatment of malnutrition-induced diseases” and how it helps with asthma, IBS and inflammatory bowel disease

• The 3 categories of fermented foods: Functional Ferments, Increased Assimilation Ferments and Primarily Preservation Ferments

• The history of kefir • How to buy sauerkraut in the store • How to make your own sauerkraut at home and why

Trudy Scott: Welcome back to The Anxiety Summit Season 3. This is Trudy Scott, food mood expert, certified nutritionist, and author of The Antianxiety Food Solution. Today our topic is, “Sauerkraut for Gut Healing and Reducing Anxiety,” and our guest is Summer Bock. She is a master fermentationist and I’m really excited to have you here today, Summer, welcome.

Summer Bock: Thank you. I’m excited. This is an awesome telesummit. Trudy Scott: Good and this is an awesome topic that we need to be including so

I’m excited, too. [Laughs] So let me go ahead and read your bio and then we will go into your story and why you’re doing what you’re doing and then some really cool information about



fermented foods and how they can actually help with gut healing. We know so much about the connection between the gut and the brain and how we can start to see some improvements in anxiety and other mood problems. And incorporating this beautiful, nourishing food called sauerkraut into our diets can make such a big difference on so many levels.

Summer Bock: Perfect. Trudy Scott: Summer Bock is a master fermentationist who guides people to

experience a deeper level of healing. Her mission is to radically improve peoples’ health while empowering them to revolutionize the local food system using delicious local and healthy food. A skilled herbalist with a background in microbiology, she is certified by the Institute of Integrative Nutrition and Columbia University. Summer has created an avid following with her signature programs, the Probiotic Power Cleanse, gut rebuilding and the year-long Fermentationist Certification Program. On the days that it’s sunny, she can be found rollerblading down the streets in the Pacific Northwest and you can find out more at summerbock.com. And I was not aware that you are a herbalist as well.

Summer Bock: I am. I absolutely adore working with herbs. I feel like it’s such a

great way to give people something tangible, something physical that really helps kick start their health, like you get some major results quickly and then it motivates you to make some of the more subtle changes.

Trudy Scott: I love it and we want to be motivating people so they can feel good

quickly and I love herbs and it’s so funny that you say, “Urbs” and I say, “Herbs.” [Laughter]

Summer Bock: [Laughs] I know. I notice that. I love it. I would never change it. Trudy Scott: I can’t bring myself to say, “Urbs.” Really I can’t so I’m just

going to have to keep saying “Herbs” but everyone knows what we’re talking about so that’s the main thing. They are wonderful and I would love to go back to school and become a herbalist. Maybe that’ll be my next project. I love that that’s part of what you do. I think it’s really important and I know you’ve got your own personal journey on how you’ve got to what you’re doing. You were pretty sick at one stage and you even had some pretty bad anxiety. I’d love you to share what you went through and how you were able to heal your body.

Summer Bock: Sure yeah when I think back on it I’m just quite shocked that I was

even ever in that bad of health and the way it happened I never knew what it was like to be healthy. I just had never experienced it. I think I was kind of subtly sick my whole life. I started out taking antibiotics as a young child. I ate processed foods.

I was addicted to sugar and, later on, that combined with a bunch of emotional stress and just mental stress I suppose. It set me up to



experience a really severe set of symptoms when I was in my late teens. Actually it was as I started going to herbal medicine school and I was there studying and that’s when I really understood how sick I was. I just didn’t realize it to that point. I mean I didn’t have any energy but I just thought that was normal. My digestion was terrible. My stomach was always bloated. I thought that was normal. I just thought that I just didn’t have – I was never going to have – a six-pack-abs, you know?

Trudy Scott: [Laughs] Summer Bock: [Laughs] And while I was in herbal medicine school we did a

cleanse and I teach that now because it was such basically a big catalyst in this whole process for me. While I was on the cleanse, I was so clean that I felt like a wool blanket had been taken out of my brain and I felt like I could see the world around me, crystal-clear, and for this shining week, literally one week of my life, it was the first time I didn’t feel anxious. It was the first time I felt like I had energy. I could think. I felt creative. I felt joyful and I was just like, “Oh my gosh, this is how normal people feel.

This is normal function and I’m, just now, feeling this for the first time in my life.” And kind of fast-forward over the next few years I was really noticing that that I couldn’t stay on the cleanse forever. It’s not sustainable so I had to figure some stuff out but during that time I just watched my health really deteriorate as I finished my certification in herbal medicine. And then I went to college and the stress of college really pushed it over the edge for me. I ended up with multiple-chemical sensitivities. I had full-blown allergies for about six months out of the year. I was allergic to all kinds of environmental stuff, from pollen, to mold, to animals. I had hives and rashes just kind of unexplained all over. My digestion was terrible again. My sugar cravings were through-the-roof. I was dealing with candida and I was having, constipation and diarrhea, you know, and I was just sick. I don’t even know how else to say it, it was hard to function. It was hard to get through the day. I was allergic to so many foods at this point that there were only about 20 or 30 I could eat without having a reaction.

Trudy Scott: Wow. Summer Bock: So my every-single-day felt like survival mode. It was just like,

“Am I going to be able to eat today? Am I going to react to the food that I’m eating,” you know? And the anxiety levels were through-the-roof and really the worst part is when it got full-blown into panic attacks. I was having 3-5 panic attacks per-week, some of which were happening in the middle of the night.



I would wake up in the middle of the night with a full-blown panic attack, my heart beating at 188 beats-per-minute and I just did not know what was going on with my body. I went to my doctor. I went to everybody. I did all the allergy clearings. I did all sorts of body work. I did chiropractic. I did naturopathic stuff. I took all sorts of supplements and herbs and even tried some pharmaceuticals and I finally went to my doctor in this last-ditch effort, with my eyes almost swollen shut. I was having such a bad allergic reaction that year to the pollen and I looked at her and I was, like, “What do I do?” And she goes, “What are you doing here?” And I’m like, “What do you mean?” And by this point I have now graduated from college. I have now completed my work as a health coach. I’m done with Columbia and Integrative Nutrition so I’ve studied all this stuff. My doctor was sending her patients to me and I was health coaching them and I had figured out how to eat clean over all of these years. I just couldn’t figure out what was going on with my body and then she looked at me and she’s, like, “Summer, you know way more about this than I do.” She’s like, “I’m going to write you a prescription. You’re not going to fill it. I don’t think it’s going to do anything anyway so what are you doing here?” I was like, “Oh my gosh.” I mean my last-ditch effort was now failing me and I left. I left her office that day and I was devastated on the one hand because I was, like, “Wow, I’m going to die, you know, because I just don’t understand what’s going on with my body” and then, at the same time, she freed me up. She freed me up to totally take responsibility for my health 100 percent. I was just doing some more research and I just said, “You know what? I’m going to cure myself of allergies. I’m going to cure myself of food allergies, of environmental allergies, of all of this stuff” I just started down this path of researching more and more, taking full responsibility and, through that process, I discovered that all of these symptoms that I was experiencing could possibly actually be connected to my gut. And when I made that connection I took out all the herbs I was taking for my liver, to try to get rid of the allergies. I took out all the herbs for my sinuses, all the herbs for my skin. I got rid of every supplement and herb. I just scratched it all and I said, “Okay we’re just going to look at the gut, then. Let’s just focus on one system.” And I started focusing on that system and I started figuring out that I might be deficient in probiotics. It was something that no one was really talking about at the time and then me, being an herbalist, I’m a purist. I want to know how my ancestors did it. How did people do this 5,000 years ago? If I don’t have probiotics in my diet and I need them how did my ancestors get that in their diet? So I asked myself, “What’s the whole-food version of probiotics?”



I was taking the supplements and they were working pretty well but it was really when I learned that sauerkraut and kefir and all of these fermented foods had probiotics in them and I started taking those and that’s when I noticed a much, much bigger difference in my health. It actually helped me reestablish what I call the bio terrain and it didn’t just put the probiotics in there, I started actually giving me something that I could absorb. I started absorbing nutrition again and my body was able to start healing itself.

Trudy Scott: Beautiful. Wow that’s very powerful. So you say that when you made the connection to the gut and you started adding in the probiotics no one was really talking about this. What year was this?

Summer Bock: This was back in, like, 2000 … somewhere around, like, 2005,

when I was looking into this stuff. Sally Fallon had written her book so I was researching Sally Fallon. I was looking at Sandra Cabot’s stuff. Probiotics were being sold in pill form and there were a couple of varieties but this whole idea of how do you get a whole-food version of probiotics was amazing.

Trudy Scott: Amazing, really amazing. Summer Bock: Yeah. Trudy Scott: And there was none of the research that we’re seeing now on how

the importance of the gut is connected to the brain and now we’re just seeing a slew of research. So for you to make that connection then was powerful and you said you’d notice the difference pretty quickly once you started. So once you started adding in the probiotics you started to see some improvement but then when you added in the fermented foods that was when you saw a big difference?

Summer Bock: Yes and now I’m learning why. Now that we have all this research

to understand that probiotics are one thing but when you bring in the fermented foods you’re adding all of this substrate. For example, with sauerkraut, there are about 13 different kinds of live organisms in fermented sauerkraut as long as you don’t pasteurize it. That’s what you end up with and so that’s great but then you also have all this lactic acid. Because sauerkraut is made to be probiotic-rich you don’t use any vinegar in it so that sour flavor that most people think is vinegar is actually lactic acid. That lactic acid serves as a natural antibiotic so food-borne pathogens cannot survive in lactic acid and a bunch of other organisms can’t grow in it. So when you’re eating the lactic acid inside the sauerkraut as well it’s actually giving your body this natural antibiotic that’s not going to kill the good guys. It kills the guys that you don’t want living in your gut.

Trudy Scott: Wow, it’s amazing and we’re going to talk a little bit more about

some of the properties of sauerkraut in terms of the good bacteria



and also some of these other compounds that are important and some of the nutrients that are in there as well. Before we get into that I want to just go back to how quickly you saw a difference and how quickly did you start to notice an improvement? A few weeks, a few months?

Summer Bock: Well, I would say it was almost immediate that my body really

started craving it once I started eating the raw, unpasteurized sauerkraut. It was really helpful just to see this craving and my body being like, “Hmm, we really want this.” My digestion started improving so I was actually having better bowel movements and seeing less IBS symptoms and that was all within a couple of weeks.

Trudy Scott: Wow. Summer Bock: Yeah, that was fantastic. It really took me I would say about six

months of doing this pretty regularly when I was able to see a significant shift, where I could say, like, a night-and-day difference where it was “Okay, I’m feeling more calm.” My anxiety was significantly less at that point. The panic attacks were still happening but seldom versus three-to-five-times-a-week. I still was struggling with my environmental allergies but a lot of these other symptoms were clearing up. I wasn’t having as bad of rashes and things like that so it took me going through about two full seasons of allergy season until I was able to fully get rid of the allergies.

Trudy Scott: Okay. Summer Bock: And the fermented foods were a really big part of it and it took me

also taking a few more steps towards cleaning up my diet, alongside the fermented foods.

Trudy Scott: Okay got it. I think yes I know that I wanted to ask this just so

people can get a feel. I know everyone’s going to be different, depending on what’s going on with them but it’s nice for people to hear what you went through and to feel hopeful. There are a lot of people in this situation and they may want to incorporate some of these beautiful fermented foods in their diet and it is good for them to know that, yeah, this possible. You can actually heal your gut and you can actually see improvements. What wonderful results you had and I loved how you shared at the beginning that when you did that herbal cleanse you felt like, “Oh, this is how normal people function.” It’s so disturbing to me when I work with someone who has felt so terrible for so long, they don’t even know what it’s like to feel normal. I was actually talking to a woman in her eighties recently and she had felt miserable from when she was 15 years old.

Her whole life she’s just felt miserable and anxious and worried and overwhelmed. It’s very sad that some people don’t know what it feels to feel normal and to feel good so the fact that she actually had that opportunity, even though it was a small window, it gave



you that hope and that inspiration: Yes, maybe I can reach this. I can feel normal again, which I think is wonderful.

Summer Bock: I agree with you. I think that hope is the most important thing in

your healing journey. The first step is really making the decision to heal, you have to decide, 100-percent in your mind “I’m going to heal,” right? But in order to decide that you have to have hope.

Trudy Scott: Yeah definitely. Yeah and that’s one of the reasons for doing this

summit and interviewing people like you is to give people hope because anxiety can be caused by so many different factors. This is obviously a really big area that we need to focus on but knowing that these different possibilities exist as avenues for investigating. I love the fact that you decided you were going to do it and you were going to dig until you found an answer, and that’s what we need to do. We need to be proactive. We need to feel empowered. Giving people information, like this, that we’re sharing today and the other interviews is giving people the resources just to say, “Okay, there’s a possibility, maybe it’s this, maybe I need to dig deeper and find that answer.” So I think, sharing your story is very powerful and I appreciate it, and I’m just so glad that you have come through the other side. And now that you have discovered this you’re so excited about it and you’re now teaching people about the beautiful healing powers of these amazing fermented foods. I love it.

Summer Bock: Thank you. Trudy Scott: [Laughs] So I want to start with just going back to an interview

that I did in Season 2 with Dr. Ted Dinan. He’s a professor of psychiatry at University College in Cork and I interviewed him in Season 2:“Microbes in the gut and psychobiotics for the treatment of anxiety and depression.” Notice he’s using the word “treatment,” which is pretty profound to use when you’re talking about bacteria, good bacteria. He is actually the researcher who coined the term psychobiotics and what that means is it’s “a live organism that when ingested in adequate amounts produces a health benefit in patients suffering from psychiatric illness.” So the fact that you had the anxiety and the panic attacks, we could assume that the psychobiotics that you were consuming were starting to help with the mood problems that you were having. The interesting thing is – as we said earlier – there is now so much research on this topic. Just before I interviewed I went to PubMed and found that he has since published 13 more papers just this year. This is in the first 5 months of 2015, 13 more papers on this topic of microbes in the gut. His most recent one was actually published in April and it’s called “Gut Microbiota: The Conductor and the Orchestra of Immune Neuroendocrine Communication.” How cool is that?

Summer Bock: Oh my gosh, it’s beautiful. Trudy Scott: It’s lovely, isn’t it? So I just wanted to tie this back to that

previous interview and now I’d love to just have you talk a little bit more about some of the studies that you had sent me, which I



think are so beautiful. I love the paper that was published in The African Journal of Science and Research, which was specifically looking at beneficial bacteria in sauerkraut. So do tell us a little bit more about that.

Summer Bock: Yeah, well I’ll read a little bit from it. So in that study they say,

“Healthy colons of humans contain some beneficial bacteria, which feed on digestive waste, thereby producing lactic acid. Without these beneficial bacteria, the digestive tract becomes a thriving zone for pathogenic bacteria and yeasts, resulting in candidiasis however it is suggested that the consumption of lacto-fermented sauerkraut could help reestablish lactobacilli.” So I mean to me this is just really [laughs] this is actually a very succinct version of what I teach in all my programs because what I’m always talking about with people is you have this situation in your gut. For people who are sick or people who have taken antibiotics, who have been really stressed out or eaten a lot of processed foods, the three big factors in messing up the gut bacteria are: Antibiotics, stress – and stress is a major factor here -and processed foods, like really low-nutrient foods. Those three factors set up what I call the human sewer situation where you’re growing all of these pathogenic bacteria and yeast. The worst part about them growing – I mean it just sounds kind of gross - but the worst part about it is that as they digest any of these foods that you eat, they excrete biotoxins.

They are basically excreting all of this waste product that your body now has to filter so it goes directly into your bloodstream. That’s why I call it the human sewer because your bloodstream is the sewer for the metropolis of these bad bacteria and yeasts

Trudy Scott: Ugh. [Laughs] Summer Bock: I know, right? Trudy Scott: Really good analogy. Summer Bock: [Laughs] Yeah and that’s what’s happening and then it gets

filtered through your liver and then your liver ends up getting clogged and then you see a whole slew of health concerns from that so this scenario is what causes a lot of people to end up being sick, when it comes to these gut-based illnesses and then you talk about the anxiety piece. I mean imagine your emotional state when you’re filled with that level of toxicity.

Trudy Scott: Absolutely. The study was published last year, 2014, so this is

new research and the title is “A Mini Review on the Microbiochemical Properties of Sauerkraut.” They actually say the “sauerkraut could be a promising nutraceutical for the treatment of malnutrition-induced diseases.” So you just talked about toxins but the other issue that we have is malnutrition. When we’ve got this dysbiosis and this imbalance in our gut we are not absorbing all the nutrients from the food that we might be eating so we may



be malnourished. And we know that anxiety can be caused by low zinc or it could be low B12 or low Vitamin B6 so if we are reestablishing the good gut bacteria we’re able to absorb some of the nutrients. But the fact that they’re actually saying that sauerkraut could be a nutraceutical for the treatment of diseases, that’s powerful, really powerful.

Summer Bock: It is really powerful. I’m very excited about this and when I’m

talking about what our ancestors do and how they got these bacteria I really want you look at what people have been doing for thousands and thousands of years: they’ve been figuring out ways to make food last a little bit longer. That’s really what a lot of this fermented foods came about is it came about with milk products. Milk products back in the day: people needed milk from their animals as a way to sustain themselves and that milk is only going to last for a day or two, right, and then it’s going to start to go sour so if the milk goes sour, obviously it’s going to start going bad. They learned that over time – and I’m not exactly sure how this happened.

They believe that it was just a spontaneous occurrence where humans have been basically using the stomachs of various animals as the best canteen to hold the milk in, to carry it around with them and they would keep putting it in there, over time, and they found these little globules that started growing. They’re now called kefir grains and these little globules, they kind of look like cauliflower they’re gelatinous and they’re filed with various yeasts and bacteria and these yeasts and bacteria control the fermentation of this milk. So they started taking these little gelatinous globs, these kefir grains and adding it to the milk, immediately and then the milk, instead of just souring, the milk would actually ferment. It was a sour flavor but it was a controlled ferment. There were healthy bacteria thriving throughout and there was some lactic acid being produced and that lactic acid was killing off any pathogenic bacteria and preventing it from going bad.

Trudy Scott: Very interesting and I’m so glad you talked about our ancestors

because although you and I both get excited about the research and I think it’s important to be showing the research so this can be accepted in the mainstream but we’ve really got to take a step back and say, “What did your ancestors do” because they were pretty smart in what they were doing. It’s almost a little bit crazy that we are getting excited about the research because these are really just fundamentals that we should be incorporating in our daily lives. But I think we’ve gone so far off-track that in order for this to become part of treatment or part of helping people heal somehow we need that research to validate that what our ancestors did were pretty smart.

Summer Bock: I think they just did what they had to do Trudy Scott: [Laughs] Exactly.



Summer Bock: I think that when you – I know this sounds so simplified but when you are living in harmony with your surroundings, you end up living in a way that’s going to be the most healthful as possible.

Trudy Scott: Yeah. Summer Bock: But that was easy back then, [laughs] it’s not as easy now. Trudy Scott: It was and that’s so interesting about how they just discovered it by

chance and necessity. It’s just really, really interesting. I didn’t know that that story of the kefir grains and how they started. That’s really interesting so just for people who may not know about the kefir grains, this translates to modern-day kefir, which is pretty different from what you might find in the store.

Summer Bock: Well, you know what? It is a little. I’m going to talk about that

because talking about kefir is really important. Kefir is – and people also call it “keh-feer.” I mean I say, “Kefir,” you say, “Keh-feer,” I don’t know. It’s just however they do it.

Trudy Scott: And spell it for folks who may not be familiar with it. Summer Bock: Great. It’s K-E-F-I-R. Trudy Scott: Great. Summer Bock: Okay so the traditional kefir is made with these kefir grains that

I’m talking about and that is actually the one that has been studied the most. There is just so much information out there about dairy kefir and the benefits. It’s really rich in vitamins but there’s also this research that shows that it stimulates mucosal immune response - so actually the mucous layer that coats all mucous membranes in the body – and is helping to protect against microbial invasion. It shows that it’s helping rebuild normal immune function by these peptides that are found in kefir so that’s really important when considering allergies but also autoimmune disease as well. It shows that it improves digestion and even in Russian hospitals, it’s the first food for babies after breastfeeding.

Trudy Scott: Really? Summer Bock: Yes, I mean it’s a [laughs] really cool food that’s been highly

studied. They say it’s great for people even those who are lactose-intolerant that it actually breaks down so much of the lactose that some people who are lactose-intolerant can actually drink this and have no problems. It tastes and looks a lot like yogurt. It’s just a thinner version of it, more of a beverage versus something that you would scoop out of a cup. And the interesting thing about kefir is these studies were all done on ones that were made with kefir grains however, in the United States, when you are buying kefir; you’re buying a more industrialized version. It’s made from a powdered culture starter so you’re still going to get probiotics when you eat kefir or drink kefir from the store but if you really



want the potent stuff, I’d recommend going out and looking for some kefir grains.

You can find them on Etsy - it is a great place - I’ve found a lot of different kefir grains on Etsy. There’re some other companies out there, too, but I would start looking for it online or asking people. Kefir grains are just these globules and you plop them down in milk and they’re going to ferment the milk at home. I’m going to basically challenge people; you might want to start making this at home if you want the real deal.

Trudy Scott: Great and I know the title of our talk today is sauerkraut but this is

another fermented food that’s going to give you a lot of similar benefits. So sauerkraut is one of them. This kefir is another one and we’re going to talk about a few more as we get into the interview. So I wanted to just jump in there and talk about it now in case people are thinking, “Oh my gosh, what’s kefir?” And a lot of people may be familiar with the store-bought version and not even think about making it themselves so it’s good that you shared some of those beautiful benefits that we’re seeing from kefir. I wanted to go back to sauerkraut because you’d sent me another paper that I wanted to mention. We’ll link to all of these papers in the speaker blog so you can actually go and look at them.

This one was on Science Direct and it talked about how the bacteria and the sauerkraut helps with a lot of illnesses. Can you just talk about some of those?

Summer Bock: Yeah, this one was from April, 2012 and this one is called “The

Potential for Probiotic Manipulation of the Gastrointestinal Microbiome.” This one’s fantastic, right? This one actually makes the connection between all these various kinds of bacteria that have been studied, the kinds of bacteria that are found in raw, unpasteurized sauerkraut and how they can actually have these amazing outcomes. So they were able to show it helping everything from IBS to Crohn’s to inflammatory bowel disease and even help with eczema and asthma. These things that most people wouldn’t immediately connect with the gut.

Trudy Scott: And these are some of the issues that you had with your asthma

and your allergies and IBS like symptoms. [laughs] Summer Bock: Exactly. Trudy Scott: There is a direct connection there and, as we said earlier, now

we’re seeing so much overlap between these gut issues and mood issues. A lot of people with IBS have anxiety. I’m actually interviewing someone this season on small intestinal bacteria overgrowth and there the thought is if you’ve got IBS you can very strongly suspect that you may have a small intentional bacterial overgrowth. Have you found that incorporating these bacteria-rich foods, like sauerkraut, may help with small intestinal bacterial overgrowth or SIBO?



Summer Bock: Well, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn’t. For some people who have SIBO, eating the probiotic-rich foods can exacerbate it for a while.

Trudy Scott: Okay. Summer Bock: It depends on where they’re at in the process. Trudy Scott: Okay. Summer Bock: It depends on how bad it is, it depends on the motility of their

digestive system, how fast things are moving or how slow. Sauerkraut is often a good one for most people with SIBO because it will help to increase the acidity of the stomach and help increase motility. So I’ve seen it be helpful. But people who have SIBO often tend to be really reactive and have also what’s known as histamine intolerance, and histamine intolerance and fermented foods don’t go well together so we have to work with people to get through the histamine intolerance first before that they can actually tolerate the fermented foods.

Trudy Scott: Okay great and I’m glad you’re mentioning histamine. One of the

guest experts on the summit is Yasmina from the Low Histamine Chef so we talked extensively …

Summer Bock: Oh great. Trudy Scott: …about histamine so it’s good to tie those together. It’s great that

you’re mentioning this and we’ve said this on a few of the other interviews - we are talking about beautiful, nourishing foods but if in your particular healing journey you can’t tolerate it, it doesn’t mean you have to force yourself to have it. So if your body is telling you, “No, this is not what I need right now” then you don’t have it. As you get further along on your healing journey then you may be able to incorporate it. So tell us a little bit about histamine in the sauerkraut - the different levels. If, for example, you made your sauerkraut and it was a shorter ferment, would that have lower levels of histamine or if you have a histamine intolerance do most people just not tolerate the sauerkraut at all?

Summer Bock: Most people don’t tolerate the sauerkraut at all when they have a

histamine intolerance however the more mature the sauerkraut is, and the longer it has fermented, usually the less histamine is present.

Trudy Scott: Oh okay. Summer Bock: Yeah, so lactobacillus plantarum, which is one of the later stages

in the fermentation process - so at the very end for what we call succession of bacteria that are in the sauerkraut - they will predominate. There are studies that show the lactobacillus plantarum actually helps to break down histamine. So there are some people out there who are curious about this overall in, like, more lactobacillus plantarum into the body, what will that do? I



haven’t quite found enough information to show that. With histamine intolerance I really work with people to help you get the diet to where they have low-histamine foods. And then they really have to work on healing the gut and once that gut is healed - and once they get all the bad organisms out of their bodies - the histamine thing isn’t quite as bad and then they are usually able to introduce the fermented foods back in.

Trudy Scott: Good point and what Yasmina was saying is that it’s often the load

of histamines so it’s possible that if you get some of these other higher-histamine foods out of the diet you may be able to incorporate small amounts of the fermented foods. Thanks for making that clarification. I was expecting if it was shorter fermentation it would be less histamine and so that’s interesting that it’s less histamine the longer it’s fermenting. I didn’t know about the lactobacillus plantarum. Is there any way that you can increase the lactobacillus plantarum in the ferment that you’re making?

Summer Bock: Some people have experimented by using starter cultures when

they’re making sauerkraut so they’ll add lactobacillus plantarum into the sauerkraut from the very beginning and then ferment it and some people have found that that it had lower histamine levels for them.

Trudy Scott: Okay, good to know. Summer Bock: Yeah, it’s a really great way. I think Body Ecology site has some

starter cultures for that. Trudy Scott: Okay and that’s for people who don’t know that’s Donna Gates. Summer Bock: Mm-hmm. Trudy Scott: Okay, great and we’re going to talk later about your method of

making sauerkraut, which doesn’t include starters, which I love. I think it’s great to just go back to the basics but then there are these other elements where you can use starters so just being aware that there’s many different ways of going about this.

Summer Bock: Exactly. Trudy Scott: Okay good. We got a little bit sidetracked there but I thought that

was interesting and I learned new stuff. I love learning new stuff, which is why I love doing these interviews. [Laughter]

Trudy Scott: Okay, so next. We talked about the probiotics and the good

bacteria but there are other elements in these fermented foods that are also good. So tell us some of these other elements in terms of nutrients that we might find.

Summer Bock: Mm well what’s really fascinating about the fermentation process

is that when you ferment sauerkraut basically you start out with cabbage, you mix it with salt. You stick it in a crock and you let it



go anywhere from two weeks to four weeks and we’ll explain that process in a little bit more detail later but that’s, kind of the overview and when you do that, you have all the nutrients found in cabbage, right? They’re all present in that sauerkraut but then what happens is during the fermentation process many of these nutrients become amplified. The Vitamin C actually becomes amplified by sometimes thousands of percentiles and what this does is it means that the body is actually able to absorb more nutrition once this has been fermented. And so this happens with a number of different vitamins within the sauerkraut and so what you’re doing is you’re actually increasing the availability of these nutrients and making them more easily assimilated. Let’s get fermented foods in perspective: there are a lot of different kinds of fermented foods. Cheese is fermented, beer, alcohol, bread. These are all fermented foods as well as like when we talked about sauerkraut and kefir, miso soup, kimchee, wine. The list is actually pretty long.

As humans we love to ferment things and we’ve been doing it for a very, very long time and I’ve found it really useful to break up some of these categories, too, so you can understand some of the other benefits of fermented foods. So there are three categories and one of them is the functional ferment. Functional ferment is kind of what you’re talking about when you mentioned nutraceuticals. The functional ferments are ferments that have a benefit that helps increase the functionality of your organs or your body systems - so sauerkraut and kefir and any kind of fermented food with probiotics in them. Miso has some functional benefits to it. It also has probiotics when it’s been fermented for at least six months so those are some of the main functional ferments. Then there are ferments that I basically call the increased assimilation ferments. These are ones where when you ferment it doesn’t necessarily add more probiotics or maybe you cook it after you ferment it but it increases your body’s ability to digest it, which is one of the main functions that we ferment foods for, you know? When you look at all the different animals [laughs] in the world, we actually have pretty weak digestive systems so we have to do things like ferment or soak or prepare or cook our food so that we can more easily digest it and you increase assimilation by doing that. A good example would be injera. Injera is Ethiopian bread. It’s made with teff and it is, essentially, soaked for a few days in water, the flour is soaked in water, and these lactobacillus and other yeasts will go in and proliferate and start fermenting and breaking down the flour, breaking down many of the phytates, making it more digestible. But then you cook it and so there’s no probiotics present when you’re eating it but you just fermented it for days and made it something that you could now digest more fully and get more of the nutrition from, more protein, more of the vitamins. And the same thing is with idli. Those are an Indian legume and rice ferments and there are various ones where it’s just all about increasing the assimilation.



Trudy Scott: Can you spell the Ethiopian one for us? Summer Bock: Injera, I-N-J-E-R-A. Trudy Scott: Okay and then the Indian one that you mentioned, spell that, too,

please? Summer Bock: I-D-L-I. Trudy Scott: I-D-L-I okay great thank you. Oh that’s interesting - so no

probiotics left in it because you’re going to cook it but it’s made it more digestible.

Summer Bock: Yes, exactly. I mean sourdough you know and bread would be a

good example of the increased assimilation. We’re not trying to preserve it. We’re not making it probiotic but we’re making it a little bit healthier by making it easier to digest…

Trudy Scott: Okay. Summer Bock: …and delicious. [Laughs] Trudy Scott: Okay. Summer Bock: And then the last one that I used and this is the ones that are just

preservation ferments so this is going to be things like anything where you’re really just trying to make sure that this food does not go bad. Vinegar is probably the best example of this.

Trudy Scott: Okay. Summer Bock: You end up with this product that you can pour over any kind of

vegetables and preserve them for really long periods of time. The vinegar is so sour and so acidic that these pathogenic organisms can’t grow in it and this is really just an incredible, beneficial thing for humans, you know? Just being able to preserve food has made a huge difference in our survival over time. It’s just really important to look at these different ones because people get really excited about food and we get into these food fads. We’re like, “Oo, fermented foods, I’ve got to get fermented foods.” It’s what I really want people to just really pay attention to is, well, what are you getting out of this fermented food? There’s also psychoactive ferments, like beer and alcohol, wine and things like that and I think it’s just important to understand that not all ferments are created equal so I think the ones that I found to be the most beneficial are the ones in general that are functional that have the probiotics. Those have been the most useful in my healing journey and for my clients as well and for people who need to get more nutrition to just make sure that they’re thinking about how to increase the assimilation of their foods and looking to some of the increased assimilation ferments is a way to get better nutrition and to increase your digestibility.



Trudy Scott: Okay great and that leads on to my question that I was going to ask. I interviewed Dr. Peter Osborne and we talked about gluten and grains and he is of the opinion that we shouldn’t be consuming any grains and he even said this about using the fermentation process, some people say, and “Use this to make it more digestible.” He still thinks, “Well, why do we even need to do that? Why do we try and make something more digestible? Why don’t we just avoid it?” I’d love you to just comment on that. I know there are different thoughts of opinion on this and I would just like to hear your thoughts on that.

Summer Bock: Yeah, well I think in this state of a lot of the digestive distress

going on today, and based on the three things I talked about earlier – the stress, antibiotics and processed foods – a lot of peoples’ digestive systems are inflamed and grains will aggravate an inflamed situation. So I think for some people on their healing journey, while they’re on their healing diet they may not be wanting to include grains. I think that’s totally understandable given the circumstances that can be happening within the body but, in the long term, people have been eating grains a very, very long time and they’ve been fermenting grains for a very long time. I wish I knew the exact numbers. I don’t even know how many hundreds of thousands of years people have been eating foods like this. So for me when I look back at history and when I look at the ease in which people can eat and digest these foods when they’re healthy, I don’t see it as being problematic, and these food sources actually provide very specific, good nutrition for us. I’m not a big fan of gluten, [laughs] you know? I am really not.

I think that we have done some pretty big damage to people by eating so much really heavily pesticide-sprayed gluten products and putting it into everything and I just think there are a lot of issues there. It’s really hard to digest and that’s not my favorite source of it but to wipe out all grains for everyone that’s a big one for me. That’s a little hard for me to go that far. [Laughs]

Trudy Scott: Okay, great and it’s a difficult one but, as you say, different people

are in different stages and if you are consuming grains and it’s causing problems, you definitely want to avoid it or think about some of these ferments that you’re talking about to make them more digestible if you are eating them.

Summer Bock: Yeah. Trudy Scott: I’m kind of on-the-fence. It’s a tough one. It really is so

interesting hearing different peoples’ perspectives so I appreciate you sharing that, thank you.

Summer Bock: You’re welcome. Yeah, I went for about two months without

grains when I was healing my body and that really helped and now they also feel really good [laughs] and I don’t eat a lot of them but it’s hard for me to make that claim so thank you for asking, though.



Trudy Scott: Okay good. So I really want to talk about the process of making sauerkraut and before we do that I want you to just have you talk about sauerkraut that you might buy in the store and ones to look out for because some people are not going to be quite ready to dive in making their own so if you are going to buy it what would you want to look for? And then I’d like to talk about how we could make it ourselves.

Summer Bock: Okay great yeah well first thing you want to look for is that you

want to make sure that it’s raw and unpasteurized and so what that means is that it has not been cooked or canned or flash pasteurized or any of this. So this is really important. It means you need to see it on the label, it needs to say, “Unpasteurized.” That is really important. If it doesn’t say “Unpasteurized,” it’s likely been heated or cooked and that kills all the probiotics. You’re still going to have the benefit of lactic acid so not all is lost but that main functional component of this food is that it has these probiotics so look for it to say unpasteurized. You want to look for it in the refrigerated section.

Because it hasn’t been heated, it has to be refrigerated so you can’t buy the stuff that’s sitting on the shelf. It can’t be sitting outside of the fridge. That’s not the kind of sauerkraut we’re talking about here, which is good. I think this is actually really good news, Trudy, for a lot of people because there are a lot of people out there when they hear the word “sauerkraut,” they’re like “Ew, no thank you. That’s gross” but what [laughs] I’m asking people to really do is give this idea of raw, unpasteurized sauerkraut a chance. It’s a different animal, like it tastes really fresh. It’s delicious! Back in 2007 I started a raw, unpasteurized, organic sauerkraut company and I had that for a number of years and I sold it just last year. I started it because when I was living with a bunch of roommates and in college I was making sauerkraut and people and my roommate friends would come over and they’d be, like, “Ew, what are you doing?” I’d let people try it and some people were, like, “Yeah, that’s delicious. That’s really amazing.” I’ve never tasted sauerkraut that good before.” I would hear that a lot but then there would be people who would try it and they’re, like, “Yeah, no thanks, that’s gross.” I mean they would be like, “No, I don’t like it.” I’m like, “Okay no big deal, come to my house and insult my food, whatever” [Laughs] And then they would leave and the craziest thing happened. A week later they would come back and they’d be, like, “You know what? I haven’t stopped thinking about that. I have to buy a jar from you.” And this happened over and over. After 25 times of this happening I was, like, “Wait a minute, stop the presses, I have created an addictive, healthy food.”

Trudy Scott: Ah, the best.



Summer Bock: “I have to start a company” and that’s when I started it because I was, like, “This is the coolest thing ever,” you know? And people’s taste buds were changing within the course of a week. Their body was basically saying, “Hey, taste buds you need to start liking this because we like it. We like what it did for you” so this, to me, is just really phenomenal and that’s when I started looking for this stuff in the stores and not being able to find it so I started making it myself and really noticing what was out there. I don’t mean to call names here but I do want to let people know there’s a real popular brand, Bubbies and they have pickles that are definitely probiotic. They don’t pasteurize their pickles so that’s great. You can actually get the same benefits from raw, unpasteurized pickles as long as there’s no vinegar added so that’s something to look out for, however their sauerkraut has been flash pasteurized so that’s kind of a tricky one, right?

So you kind of have to look close at these labels. There’re some other national chains like Farmhouse Cultures and then if you look at just different areas wherever you live you’re probably going to start to find some small, local fermented foods and fermented veggies companies. I really recommend starting to support these people. Look for them at your farmer’s market and if you don’t have it in your area, learn how to make it. I would love to help people learn how to make it and start up a company themselves.

Trudy Scott: Great. So I wanted to go back to what you’d said, Farmhouse

Cultures is that pasteurized or not? Is that a good one? Summer Bock: They are unpasteurized. Trudy Scott: Okay, great. Summer Bock: They are so this is a good one. It’s in plastic bags. I’m not as big

of a fan of the plastic bags but sometimes I’ll buy them and take them home and put them in a jar.

Trudy Scott: Okay, great and then the other one you mentioned where the

sauerkraut had been pasteurized? What is that name of that? It began with a “B.”

Summer Bock: Bubbies. B-U-B-B-I-E-S Trudy Scott: Okay I have not seen that one but, you’re right about finding local.

The local health store here in Folsom has some really nice, local, fermented products. He lives just up-the-road so finding those local products are great and then trying it out and seeing if you like it. I love that: finding an addictive food that’s really healthy. I love it [laughs] so if you get addicted and you really like it then you could possibly try and make it yourself. So let’s just talk through that.

Now you’ve got two things that I want you to mention. I know you do a fermentationist certification program and that’s great for practitioners and then for other people who want to learn more so



now you’ve tried it, you really like it, you could do something like that and then you could try and make some at home, and then maybe think about doing the whole fermentationist certification program.

Summer Bock: Yep for sure. Yeah. Trudy Scott: Perfect. It’s great and we’ll make sure to share all of this on the

page and I’ll link to some of these products that you’re talking about so folks have got it. I know you are going to be sharing a really, really great video and I’ll share the link to that on the replay page and on the blog and it’s “Making Fermented Vegetables” video. You did a three-part series and you are giving everyone access to the second video, which is step-by-step of you making sauerkraut. I’ve watched it and it’s fabulous. It’s really, really good and it shows you exactly how to make sauerkraut so if you’re feeling like this is really exciting to you maybe you’ve tried some and now you want to try and make some on your own, I really encourage you to watch this video and watch Summer doing it because it’s really, really great. I’d love you to just walk us through briefly. You talked a little bit earlier about it basically being the cabbage and the salt and that’s it. Could you just walk us through what’s going to be involved in terms of making this beautiful sauerkraut?

Summer Bock: Absolutely. So you know I love sauerkraut because I make it

without using a starter culture, which means that we’re not going to add any bacteria, which blows most peoples’ minds. We’re going to make sauerkraut. We’re not adding bacteria. By setting up the right environment, the right food is there and the bacteria that are just present on the cabbage will start to grow. So what I usually start with is fresh, green cabbage.

I like the flavor the best. I think it comes out really nice, and I chop it up pretty equal shred length or whatever. I generally like mine a little bit fine. I think it just tastes better and they’re going to get a little bit juicier. So I’ll chop up a cabbage and then I’ll add salt, usually three-to-four tablespoons-per-gallon-of-sauerkraut. That’s my general rule of thumb. My easy cheater rule of thumb is you chop up all the cabbage, you add salt and you mix the salt in, you know, kind of mix it up in your hands really quick and you taste some once the salt’s all mixed in and as long it’s as salty as a Lay’s potato chip then you’re ready to go. That’s how salty you want it, not that I have had, Trudy, a Lay’s potato chip in, like, 15 years at least but I’m just saying [laughs] there’s that whole – what is their slogan? It’s “You Can’t Just Have One” or something like that because it’s just salty enough.

Trudy Scott: So this is one I had a question for you on because I’ve never eaten

a Lay’s potato chip… [laughs] Summer Bock: Ah got it.



Trudy Scott: …so I don’t know how salty that is and I know we’ve got some international listeners here who may not have also eaten a Lay’s potato chip. So the idea that you say it’s pretty salty, that’s great, and you just mentioned did you say three to four tablespoons of salt per-gallon-of-sauerkraut? Is that what you said?

Summer Bock: Yes. Trudy Scott: So what does that mean? . Summer Bock: That’s about five pounds of cabbage. Trudy Scott: Five pounds okay. Oh my gosh okay. Summer Bock: So you can cut that in half, you know, depending on how much

you’re going to make. If I’m making it at home, I usually make about a quart-at-a-time [crosstalk] --

Trudy Scott: Okay and how many cabbages would make five pounds - just to

give us an idea? Summer Bock: You know they’re all so many different sizes. Most cabbages I

would say run about one-to-two pounds each. Trudy Scott: Okay. Summer Bock: Which is probably like three-to-four cabbages makes five pounds,

depending on how big or small they are. Trudy Scott: Okay. Summer Bock: That’s a pretty small cabbage, though. I have held cabbages that

were 29 pounds. Trudy Scott: Okay but if we’re looking at an average middle-size cabbage so

that just helps and then also keep in mind we’ve got some people who use metrics so pounds just mean nothing so it sounds like three-to-four tablespoons for maybe three-to-four cabbages if it’s an average-size. Would that be fair to say?

Summer Bock: I think that’s pretty fair to say Trudy Scott: Okay good. [Laughs] Summer Bock: Another way to say that saltiness is that when you take a bite of it,

it tastes like you want to take another bite of it. The saltiness of it is really good and you’re like, “Wow, this tastes like a good salad” and you find yourself wanting more. That’s the right saltiness. You’re not trying to lightly salt it. The reason you’re salting it is because you want to pull all of the water out of the cabbage.

Trudy Scott: Okay.



Summer Bock: That salt will start to create an osmotic effect and it’s going to pull the water out of the cell walls and this is wonderful because then that is what’s going to create our brine. So that salt that you added is going to get diluted really quickly with all of the water from the cabbage. So, at this point, you’ve mixed the salt up, you like how salty it is, it’s just salt-and-cabbage and now you either want to use a crock or a jar. I always use glass jars. There’s also a company called Pickle It and they have these glass Fido jars, F-I-D-O, and they have an airlock on the top. This is a little fancy. You don’t have to go this route.

I’m just giving you some options and I go into these, in full detail, in the video and I show you some of your options there. But basically you’re going to, at this point, pick something, probably a jar and you want to pack the sauerkraut down into that jar and as you’re packing it down, you’re going to start to see water coming out of the cabbage and you’re going to pack all of it in there until you have two or three inches up at the top. When you push the cabbage down really, really hard you want no air bubbles at all. The water will start rising up. We’re not adding water. This water is coming out of the cabbage and from the salt. So this salt water is creating an anaerobic environment and that anaerobic environment is the perfect environment for these lactobacillus and other amazing organisms to start growing and they’re going to be digesting the sugars in the cabbage and they’re going to be having a heyday. They’re digesting them, they’re creating lactic acid, the pH is lower, it gets more acidic, it prevents other organisms from growing and what we have is this really stable, controlled environment that just proliferates and grows to the most amazing probiotics. Dr. Mercola, he did a recent study where he basically had some of his cultured sauerkraut analyzed and they found that a four-to-six-ounce serving of the fermented veggies had 10 trillion bacteria. So that means two ounces of fermented sauerkraut at home has more probiotics than a bottle of 100-count probiotic capsules. So 16 ounces - like a normal-size jar of sauerkraut - is equal to 8 bottles of probiotics. That’s why you want to learn how to make this stuff at home because it is so potent.

Trudy Scott: Wow and you’re getting all those other beautiful nutrients that you

talked about earlier. Summer Bock: Exactly. You know your body’s just going to be absorbing them

so well and then when you have the right bacteria living in your gut, these bacteria will actually survive. Most of them will survive the hydrochloric acid in your stomach, go down into your gut, live in your colon and they’re going to start eating and digesting a lot of the food as it passes out of your small intestine into your colon. Those bacteria are going to digest your food even more fully and you’re going to extract more nutrition from it. They’re also going to create vitamins.

They create Vitamin K and Bs inside your gut, on-site, for you to absorb immediately so not just are they helping you with the sauerkraut, they’re helping you with the other food you eat.



Trudy Scott: Yeah wonderful and now with the research that we’re seeing some

of these bacteria in our gut actually make GABA and make serotonin so we’re getting neurotransmitter production from good bacteria in our gut. So it’s really, really important to be populating our gut with this good bacteria.

Summer Bock: It’s so important and in a way, we’re kind of farmers, you know? Trudy Scott: [Laughs] I love it. Summer Bock: Yeah, we’re farmers for these bacteria and we’re taking care of this

land, this soil inside of our gut and it’s really up to us to feed them the right food, you know, and that a lot of times we think of it in terms of, okay, well, if we know probiotics are good for us, let’s take tons of probiotics, let’s eat a ton of sauerkraut. That’s only part of it. You also need to be feeding bacteria other food, you know? They like to eat blueberries. They like to eat salads.

They like to eat all of this other amazing food that you eat. You know what they don’t like? They don’t like the processed stuff and they don’t do well with sugar and they don’t actually do super-great with a lot of alcohol. Like you know all of this stuff that we know about what the difference is between healthy food and not-healthy food has more to do with it creating a happy, healthy environment for our gut bacteria than anything else.

Trudy Scott: Yeah, really, really, really true and I’m glad you mentioned

probiotics because there is a place for them, therapeutically higher amounts may be helpful while you’re starting to heal but then adding in these traditional foods are great. And for some people the thought of adding in sauerkraut or even making it is just too overwhelming so, heal the gut, work on some of these other issues but keep this in your mind as an option to start incorporating and if you’re ready to do it now I think it’s fantastic. I’ve got two follow-on questions from the actual video. One: I just want to clarify for people the kind salt that you would be using - I think you talk about it in the video but I just want to make sure everyone’s aware of that.

Summer Bock: Yeah I just recommend using sea salt, not using iodized salt … Trudy Scott: Excellent. Summer Bock: …because the iodized salt is a disinfectant so sea salt of any kind.

There’re so many beautiful kinds of sea salt out there. Trudy Scott: Okay and then you said something in the video that was different

to what I had been taught: not pound the cabbage before you put it in. You put it in the crock or the glass jar and then you press it down there. Is there any reason why you would do it, pressing it down, once it’s in the container versus pounding a little bit on the chopping board before you put it in?



Summer Bock: Yeah that’s a great question. I mean some people like to what they call massage the sauerkraut before they put it in, in the crock, you know? It’s just I’ve made so many different batches and I’ve made thousands and thousands of gallons of sauerkraut and I’ve just found, through experience, that the better-tasting and the better consistency, is a nice crunchiness when I didn’t pound it first.

Trudy Scott: Okay. Summer Bock: It was so much more delicious and intact. You can pack it down

really hard in the crock but something about breaking down the fibers in that way would leave it a little bit less crunchy in the end because that breaks it. And that’s just a personal preference.

Trudy Scott: Yeah okay it’s good to know so you can do it either way, find out

what works for you but that’s good. I like the idea of something crunchy as well. Sounds good.

Summer Bock: For sure. Trudy Scott: This is great. I’ve loved this. I think it’s been fantastic! The other

thing I wanted to mention about sauerkraut is it’s local and it’s organic and you can harvest it at any time so you’ve got a little farm here in your kitchen as well as in your gut, which is wonderful! [Laughs]

Summer Bock: Exactly and do you like raw, unpasteurized sauerkraut? Trudy Scott: Do I? I love it. Summer Bock: How do you eat it? Trudy Scott: How do I eat it? I have it as like a little condiment amount with a

meal. Summer Bock: Perfect. Trudy Scott: Yeah I like to snack on it, too. Go and have a little mouthful of it

as a nice, little, healthy snack. Summer Bock: I love it, too. I always put it on salad with hummus and that’s my

favorite travel snack when I’m in another city and I don’t know what I’m going to do for food. I don’t want to go out to eat, I’ll stop at a health food store and I’ll just grab a box of spinach or mixed greens, humus and sauerkraut and I’ll just dump those all on there and it’s just so perfect.

Trudy Scott: Lovely. When you travel do you ever take sauerkraut with you?

Would it travel well? Summer Bock: I used to, if it’s raw, unpasteurized, it’s not sealed as well so you

have to be careful. I usually either double-bag in Ziploc bags in my checked luggage or I’ll take it onboard with me and have it sitting upright. You just want to be careful when you’re traveling.



I’ve gotten kicked out of the JFK airport when they tried to throw my sauerkraut away. They were like, “You can’t travel with this,” and I was, like, “Those are vegetables.” And I was yelling at them back-and-forth about it, and they were, like, “Get her outta here.” I was, like, “Gimme my sauerkraut back.” [Laughs] It was horrible.

Trudy Scott: Yeah, I’ve had some fun travel issues, too, where they didn’t want

me to take food on the plane and things like that but, yeah, well, good to know. You can get to your location and buy it if you want to do that. At least buy something that has not been pasteurized, make sure it’s raw and then you’re going to get the good benefits. Wonderful.

Summer Bock: Yeah. Trudy Scott: Yep well great. So we’ll make sure to share that link to the video

and then we’ll share some other information about your programs that you offer. This has been really, really great. I’d love to know if you’ve got any final words of wisdom for us, Summer.

Summer Bock: Well, you know the question I probably get the most is how much

should I be eating, per day? And I would just recommend that people eat, two forkfuls-a-day. Just take a couple forkfuls with one of your meals each day. You could do it with every single meal if you want but just start out with two forkfuls-a-day, do that for 30 days and see how your body reacts. That’s always a first place I would start.

Trudy Scott: And then possibly increase from there? Summer Bock: Oh yeah I mean once people are comfortable with it, they’ll be

dumping out a jar of it and eating the whole thing. I know people who literally eat a jar in a day but you’ll go through phases with it, you know? Sometimes your body wants a lot, other times you kind of don’t want any but I’d just say, for 30 days, try to get a little bit every day and then just listen to your body after that and see. It’s okay to go overboard. It’s totally fine. [Laughs]

Trudy Scott: Great. Well yummy. I just hope that this has inspired people to

either want to go and buy some sauerkraut or make their own sauerkraut so they can heal their gut and reduce anxiety and all the other good things that come with eating beautiful, fermented foods. It’s been a real pleasure having you on The Anxiety Summit, Summer. Thank you so much for joining us.

Summer Bock: Thank you so much for having me. This is an awesome resource

for people. I’m so excited about all these interviews you’re doing. Trudy Scott: Great and thank you everyone for joining us on yet another great

interview on The Anxiety Summit Season 3. Do join us on other interviews and this is Trudy Scott signing off.



Here is the speaker blog: http://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-sauerkraut-for-gut-anxiety/ Summer Bock, Master Fermentationist

Summer Bock is a Master Fermentationist who guides people to experience a deeper level of healing. Her mission is to radically improve people’s health while empowering them to revolutionize the local food system using delicious, local and healthy food. A skilled herbalist with a background in microbiology, she is certified by the Institute of Integrative Nutrition and Columbia University. Summer has created an avid following with her signature programs The Probiotic Power Cleanse, Gut Rebuilding, and the yearlong Fermentationist Certification Program. On the days it is sunny she can be found rollerblading down the streets in the Pacific Northwest. Find out more at SummerBock.com

Trudy Scott, CN, host of The Anxiety Summit, Food Mood expert and author of The Antianxiety Food Solution

Food Mood Expert Trudy Scott is a certified nutritionist on a mission to educate and empower anxious individuals worldwide about natural solutions for anxiety, stress and emotional eating. Trudy serves as a catalyst in bringing about life enhancing transformations that start with the healing powers of eating real whole food, using individually targeted supplementation and making simple lifestyle changes. She works primarily with women but the information she offers works equally well for men and children.

Trudy also presents nationally to nutrition and mental health professionals on food and mood, sharing all the recent research and how-to steps so they too can educate and empower their clients and patients.



Trudy is past president of the National Association of Nutrition Professionals. She was recipient of the 2012 Impact Award and currently serves as a Special Advisor to the Board of Directors. Trudy is a member of Alliance for Addiction Solutions and Anxiety and Depression Association of America. She was a nominee for the 2015 Scattergood Innovation Award and is a faculty advisor at Hawthorn University.

Trudy is the author of The Antianxiety Food Solution: How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood and End Cravings (New Harbinger 2011). She is also the host of the wildly popular Anxiety Summit, a virtual event where she interviews experts on nutritional solutions for anxiety.

Trudy is passionate about sharing the powerful food mood connection because she experienced the results first-hand, finding complete resolution of her anxiety and panic attacks. The information provided in The Anxiety Summit via the interviews, the blog posts, the website, the audio files and transcripts, the comments and all other means is for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for advice from your physician or other health care professional. You should consult with a healthcare professional before starting any diet, exercise, or supplementation program, before taking or stopping any medication, or if you have or suspect you may have a health problem.

05 Summer Bock Sauerkraut for Gut Healing and Reducing Anxiety · 2019-11-04 · her • The good...

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