Transcript of Session 2 – The Stolen Jesus? In this session we will look at the idea that the story of Jesus was...
- Slide 1
- Session 2 The Stolen Jesus? In this session we will look at the
idea that the story of Jesus was made up by someone by compiling
pre-existing legends We will not concentrate much on who they claim
was making up the story, often times they say a group of people, we
will instead focus on the myths they say we stole
- Slide 2
- A story to get us started Once upon a time there were three
little donkeys, who built houses out of paper, sticks, and bricks
Along came the big bad elephant to the first house, he blew it
down. He then went to the second and blew that one down too, and he
went to the third, and couldnt (until he got help from another
elephant)
- Slide 3
- What is this a copy of? The three little pigs Even though I
didnt call them pigs, and it was an elephant not wolf, and I
changed the ending, you still knew it was using that story This is
how some people today approach the story of Jesus, they claim it
was based on pre- existing stories and legends (although they did
add some unique stuff)
- Slide 4
- They claim that in mythology, there are many men who do things
that Jesus does Born of a Virgin Suffers for others Ascends into
heaven We do not have time to cover all the parallels people give,
we will look at a few and general problems with them
- Slide 5
- Caesar Augustus He was called a savior by his people Well
folks, that about all that lines up between the two of them I think
we can name a few more things different between them, dont you?
This isnt too popular among parallelists
- Slide 6
- Odysseus and Jesus They were both carpenters Both sailed in
seas (Odysseus a little more than Jesus, but Jesus did go out on
the Sea of Galilee Both of these individuals face supernatural foes
during their lives Both had last suppers before visiting Hades
- Slide 7
- Apollonius of Tyana He lives during the first century, but his
account was not written down until 170-245 A.D. It was not written
by eye-witnesses, it was by people who lived after the Bible was
written Our only historical source for this individual is
Philostatus
- Slide 8
- When we look at the Bible, we have multiple sources for what
happened in the life-time of Jesus Philostratus was commissions by
the Emperor to write a biography for the Temple dedication to
Apollonius If anything, Philostratus would want to exaggerate the
biography, and would steal from the Christian religion
- Slide 9
- Was Jesus based on Dionysus? They claim the idea of a Virgin
birth came from the myth of Dionysus, because he was born of a
Virgin Understand, what we mean by virgin birth, and what they mean
by virgin birth, are very different Dionysus mother was killed, and
he was taken and sown into the thigh of Zeus
- Slide 10
- What about the Osiris myth They claim that the story of Jesus
baptism would have been take from Osiris and his baptism story
which pre-dates Jesus What actually happened in the Osiris story?
After he had died, his coffin was thrown into the Nile
- Slide 11
- They also claim that Osiris had a resurrection story and the
Jesus myth could have stole that Are the stories similar when
looking at them? We all know the story of Jesus and his
resurrection In the Osiris myth, his dismembered body is pieced
back together and he becomes the zombified lord of the
underworld
- Slide 12
- And now for the most popular version of the parallelism, Jesus
and Mithra They say Mithra had twelve disciples Mithra and his
twelve disciples had a last supper before his death Mithra is
supposed to be born December 25 th They claim all these things line
up obviously the Christians had to steal some of this?
- Slide 13
- Lets look at these similarities in more detail Mithras twelve
disciples are actually the twelve signs of the zodiac This is
different than the disciples of Jesus who are real people from real
geographic places They did eat together and had a meal, but they
never called that meal the last supper
- Slide 14
- Earliest Christians were not discussing December the 25 th, in
reality the date they first discussed was January 6 th, and then
they later discussed December 25 th We have records of Christians
discussing the December25th date before we have evidence of Mithra
have that birthday Many Christians today do think the Christians
stole that date from Pagans, but it was discussed very early
- Slide 15
- There are even bigger problems Mithraism didnt come into Rome
until the 2 nd Century, after the entire Bible was written There is
no evidence the Christians had any contact with Mithraism when they
were writing the Bible Even if they did, the odds are Christianity
influences Mithraism, not the other way
- Slide 16
- Watch how easy parallelism is to make up Is parallelism is a
trustworthy method, we can prove The Hobbit (Movie) was not based
off the book, but actually off the movie Braveheart It is easy to
see that Peter Jackson was basing the dwarves off the Scotts in
Braveheart
- Slide 17
- Both groups in the movies (dwarves & Wallace's) are being
chased by the enemy In both movies, the good guys are setting out
to recapture their homeland Both the main characters' ride horses
Steven and Bard are both from outside groups, but come and help
those conquering their homeland
- Slide 18
- In both movies they are using swords as a primary weapon Both
the main characters are captured by the enemy at some point Both
groups fought against large enemies Both groups are fighting a war
and are abandoned by their friends in time of need
- Slide 19
- Smog and Long Shanks are similar, one hates the Scotts, and one
hates the dwarves Thorin and Wallace both lost their fathers early
on The Grammatical Similarity In the hobbit they have runes, in
Braveheart they fight in the ruins of Scotland (and in Bravehart
they moon their enemy, and in the Hobbit they are moon runes.)
- Slide 20
- Christianity was based off another religion, and it was
Judaism! A bigger problem for this parallelism idea is prophecies
of Jesus Isa.7:14: Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a
sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall
call his name Immanuel. This far pre-dates Dionysus
- Slide 21
- He would be born of a virgin (Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 7:14) To be
announced by an Elijah-like herald (Isaiah 40:3-5, Malachi 3:1,
4:5) He would proclaim a jubilee to the world (Isaiah 58:6, 61:1)
His ministry would be one of healing (Isaiah 53:4) He would teach
through parables (Isaiah 6:9-10, Psalms 78:2) He would be betrayed
by a friend for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:1-13, Psalms
41:9) He would rise from the dead on the third day (Genesis 22:4,
Psalms 16: 10-11, Hosea 6:2)
- Slide 22
- Almost everything that happened in the life of Jesus was
prophesied before any of these myths were created The idea of Jesus
being a parallel of other religious and mythical figures and not
actually existing falls apart when you look at it in more detail
There are other problems though denying Jesus ever existed
- Slide 23
- Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?) mentions Jesus - Antiquities,
Book 18, ch. 3, par. 3. Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise
man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of
wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with
pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the
Gentiles. We have quotes from people alive around the time of Jesus
who were not Christians
- Slide 24
- Flavius Josephus: "Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but
upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought
before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name
was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when
he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he
delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most
equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the
breach of the laws, they disliked what was done."
- Slide 25
- Tacitus (A.D. c.55-A.D. c.117, Roman historian) - Annals 15.44
"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt
and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for
their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus,
from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty
during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our
procurators, Pontius Pilatus
- Slide 26
- Lucian (circa 120-after 180) mentions Jesus. Greek writer and
rhetorician. "The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day
the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and
was crucified on that account We have many sources outside the
Christians who talk of Jesus as a historical figure
- Slide 27
- In 2002, the Biblical Archaeological Society and the Discovery
Channel announced in Washington, D.C. that an ancient inscription
on a 2,000-year-old ossuary with the inscribed Aramaic words
"James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus" was genuine. (dated A.D.
6-70)
- Slide 28
- The Bible is also allowed to be used as a reference, it is a
historical document of that time Today, nearly all historians,
whether Christians or not, accept that Jesus existed and that the
gospels contain plenty of valuable evidence which has to be weighed
and assessed critically. The late Graham Stanton, Cambridge
University, in The Gospels and Jesus
- Slide 29
- Remember, the Bible is not just one source and one piece of
evidence for the existence of Jesus, it is a compilation of
evidence Paul, James, Peter, Luke, Mark, Matthew, John, and Jude
are all different authors who report of the historical Jesus We
will end with some quotes from experts on this topic of
history
- Slide 30
- Non-Christian Bart Erhman said the following about this topic:
Few of these mythicists are actually scholars trained in ancient
history, religion, biblical studies or any cognate field, let alone
in the ancient languages generally thought to matter for those who
want to say something with any degree of authority about a Jewish
teacher who (allegedly) lived in first-century Palestine
- Slide 31
- There are a couple of exceptions: of the hundreds thousands? of
mythicists, two (to my knowledge) actually have Ph.D. credentials
in relevant fields of study. But even taking these into account,
there is not a single mythicist who teaches New Testament or Early
Christianity or even Classics at any accredited institution of
higher learning in the Western world. And it is no wonder why.
- Slide 32
- Some judgments are so probable as to be certain; for example,
Jesus really existed, and he really was crucified, just as Julius
Caesar really existed and was assassinated..... We can in fact know
as much about Jesus as we can about any figure in the ancient
world. Marcus Borg, Professor of Religion and Culture at Oregon
State University, in The Meaning of Jesus: Two Visions
- Slide 33
- we can no more reject Jesus' existence than we can reject the
existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical
figures is never questioned...... In recent years, 'no serious
scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or
at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of
the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary.
The late Michael Grant, eminent historian of the Roman Empire, in
Jesus: an historian's review of the gospels
- Slide 34
- Memory Verse Isa.7:14: Therefore the Lord himself shall give
you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and
shall call his name Immanuel.